Continue from https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110007901

But then is 1G journey to 4G is the same like 4G to 5G?

1G to 2G is created because of "past" encryption issue, not because of "future" usage.

2G to 3G happen because the need internet that is being used on desktop at that current time which is also a "past" issue not *future" usage.

3G to 4G happens because 3G doesn't provide enough speed which is also a "past" issue.

1G till 4G has been proven to be created to solve issue that actually exist and needed an upgrade. So I'm not sure where you get the sentiment that cellular technology is created to be over engineered as possible when the upgrade is actually needed at that current time.

Source: The 5G Myth: When Vision Decoupled from Reality by William Webb

Running cellular network is not like a startup. MNOs have to buy spectrum, have to put basetation. If the resources is not being used, the MNOs is pretty much bleeding money which is why you see nowadays, MNOs all around the world is merging because the cost of of running cellular network is expensive.

Which is why DNB is taking that burden off from the MNOs so MNOs can only focus on actually using that "over engineered" technology instead of wasting precious spectrum just because they can.

i'm talking about the roll out model of 1G to 5G.
u comparing the usage/use case of 1G to 5G.

1G to 5G roll out also got mixture of government intervention vs telco owned.

The problem I dont like about DNB is ;
1. They are not run like non-profit organisation. In fact their CEO pay is like 1 of those telco CEO pay. The cost of operating DNB for profit will be passed on to consumers.

2. No competition for 5G services among telcos. Example : If im not happy with Maxis 5G speed and coverage , even if I port out to Digi , it will be the same because all of them are served by DNB. Knowing DNB , their attitude will be " rilek la " , no incentive to improve becoz of monopoly.

When I was in Aussie , I could reach speeds up to 900+mbps DL on 5G. In Malaysia , most of time only 200mbps on download if im lucky.

I see no incentive for DNB to buck up and improve 5G speed.

TM fibre manage to up their speed significantly and reduce prices for home users only bcoz Gobind Singh kick their arses. DNB ??? Nobody bothers with them at all.

Understable and I agree with some of your perspective and I see your concern about option and services with DNB.

But then, if goverment can do intervention on TM fibre prices, why can't the goverment do the same to DNB when they literally have the golden share? Which I think is a bigger control than just being a GLC.

1) Your concern with the CEO is understable. For the cost of running the infrastructure itself, I think 4G brings many advantages to the MNOs since they can squeeze out the vendor but then why that savings is not translated to cheaper 4G plan?

In 2024, 4G plan that is being offered by Malaysia telco either have FUP or very low speed limit like 6 Mbps while in USA, Visible MVNO can offer high-speed unlimited plan for only 25usd.

2) In my opinion, for only 3 years in existence, DNB already over achieved what telco cannot done during 4G in same time duration.

What I mean is, in 3 years, 5G Malaysia already have a Positive Net Promoter Score which telco 4G fail to achieve even after a decade. 177.618% improvement is no small feat to achieve and why this gap happen? Only the MNOs know.

Green = 5G, Yellow = 4G

Positive NPS = More happy customers, Negative NPS = More unhappy customers

And for the port out option, ironically, isn't Maxis and CelcomDigi both have congestion issue? So what is even the difference with DNB? The MNOs have the money to increase 4G capacity but they are not doing it. Why?

Malaysia 5G speed is already among the highest on MEDIAN speed globally which again telco 4G fail to achieve. I don't see any news or data that show telco Malaysia get one of the highest speed GLOBALLY during 3 years of 4G existence in Malaysia during 4G era.

I'm not sure if TM attitude can be put the same on DNB when DNB literally bring Malaysia cellular network speed to the top Globally and Asia while TM fibre median speed is not even closed to Thailand and Singapore. The data themselves even show the gap of 4G and 5G improvement. So how does competition during 4G existence translate to better service when until now 4G still have problem even for basic problems like calling?

Based on the latest Ookla Global Index data recently. Malaysia increase their ranking by 2 position above and get into top 25 in cellular median speed. Based on my assumption is, this happen because of 5G speed contribution for the data.


https://www.speedtest.net/global-index/malaysia#mobile

If the theory of having more competition is good, the data will show easily that 4G will be having positive NPS while 5G will have negative NPS. But it seems the theory is not translating well and it seems not translating at all in Malaysia market and we can only wonder why?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 01:24 AM

Without competition DNB self claim themselves as higher speed 5G in Malaysia. All telco are riding on same 5G Infra if down all network faces down. Also heavily congested recent days. Telco's free 5G phone campaign forced consumers switch to 5G phones. Also major telcos offering 5G home broadbands. Speeds are pretty slow. From 1Gbps to 100mbps. DNB claims 100mbps is standard for 5G Lol 4G+ can go up to 200mbps
DNB still earn all credits with Monopoly scheme my suggestion will more competition gets more value more speeds and less price. Major telcos revamped data plans due to DNB monopoly. CelcomDigi won't set stupid 5G speed cap if they had own 5G network.

DNB under Gobind Digital Ministry now

But the thing is TM Fibre is a necessity now bcoz ADSL is no more. Consumers have no where to run bcoz all other ISP home fibre ride on TM's infra. Time only serves high-rise buildings and business users.

5G is another story. Government might treat it as a luxury rather than necessity bcoz 4G network is still around. So I dont think he will intervene.

If DNB self claim can somehow brings Malaysia to one of the top global 5G speeds, why can't it done be the same with 4G?

Does Maxis or Celcom has claim to be one of the fastest 4G network GLOBALLY? Because the last time I read the news, Malaysia 4G MEDIAN speed is barely fast in Southeast Asia itself.


https://www.lowyat.net/2022/266106/malaysia...load-speed-sea/

To self claim as the highest speed globally, the whole Malaysia need to have a high median speed which the data already prove.

Even in context of congestion, what is the speed of 4G compared to 5G during congestion time? Does 5G suddenly become slower than 4G?

Again same question by me. What is the speed of 4G Broadband compared to 5G Broadband in peak hours?

For your information, 100Mbps is a standard that is set by ITU-R. An organization under United Nations that proposed IMT-2020. 3GPP then use this standard to create the network that we called 5G nowadays.

Based on the picture below, 4G (IMT-Advanced) standard speed is only 10 Mbps which is ironically Malaysia 4G median speed like the table shown above.

Theoretical peak 5G speed is 20Gbps while for 4G is 1Gbps. That is a massive difference.


https://x.com/ITU/status/1039885559399936000

is that true with 4G?

In 4G era, maybe that is true. But now that is not true anymore though especially when we see how global MNOs are pricing their plan.

I don't see a major country that somehow have their 5G plan price is getting lesser with more MNOs in the country. What happen is they all increase the price for 5G plan.

Only in Malaysia where 5G somehow decrease the price of 5G plan.

USA:

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/expect-5g-o...-prices-in-2024

India:




Bonus: Here a short simple video about how 5G get standardized.


This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 03:54 AM

are we on 5G core rather than 5G riding on 4G core? aka 5G SA rather than NSA.

Deleted

This post has been edited by NagaK: Jul 1 2024, 10:21 AM

Speeds are subjectable. 4G broadband had bad experience among consumers in terms of speed where 5G changed the landscape. Minimum 300mbps

Knowledgeable in India GOVT approved above 2 5G band to deploy. Example Jio deploy 5G Standalone network where Airtel deploy non standalone ( similar to Malaysia DNB )

My opinion more competition gets more better quality network. DNB 5G coverage is good in Klang Valley. They need improve indoor coverages. Also MNO should focus on 4G too

I have to state a fact that...

If you want coverage, the costs will be freaking high, which means higher price for cust too.

if you want cheap, then there will be limited coverage on rural area due to the costs involved and also on pure business perspective that focus on urban area first.

Remember during COVID the kid climb on the tree to get mobile data to study from home?

In fact gov need to fork out public money to all those MNOs that you all like to fund them to setup network at rural area.

That's what happened when you rely on business driven company to dictate the coverage of the network.

First 4G was launched way back on 2013, but it took about 6 years to just reach that 82%, then after JENDELA funding only push to 97%...

Meanwhile DNB manage to achieve the 80% coverage in under 3 years...Why? Because it focus on coverage regardless of business needs.

Money don't drop from the sky,

Worst 5G network coverage ever, The 5G antenna setup a block away from my house. Just can get 1-2 bar.

Loves when I travel to Hatyai, their border 5G full bars (I used Hotlink postpaid roaming) very strong.

It because DNB not turn ON 5G 700mhz

Thailand 5G mid-range frequency of 2600 MHz and the low frequency of 700 MHz

Because sadly that is the nature of 3.5Ghz band we used.

Currently, only Malaysia and Singapore that uses this frequency band for 5G in all area while other country in Southeast Asia only use 700Mhz band for their 5G with only some urban area in Thailand use 2.6GHz frequency band.

Which mean, they technically just "refarm" the low band. Which is why Thailand can get away with lower density base station than Malaysia and still get higher coverage because that is the advantages of 700Mhz.

But that 700MHz come at the cost of very low speed of around only 50 - 150 Mbps. That speed is like Malaysia urban area 4G speed only because ironically, Malaysia is indeed using Thailand 5G urban 2.6GHz band for 4G.


https://soyacincau.com/2019/07/09/mcmc-pi-7...ctrum-broadband

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 12:36 PM

We still on 5G NSA.

Exactly what I have in my mind, Malaysia 5G rollout get scrutinize heavily by Malaysians yet people forget how slow was the 4G rollout by telco itself.

And with 5G, why would people think these telco will improve. Even the data shows how inconsistent 4G experience is. Yet people are more confident in telco implementation eventhough there is no data that shows these telco do a great impressive job during 3G or 4G days.

During 4G days, the telco only know about putting speed cap, putting FUP, demand shit load of money for a simple 4G plan and thats it. Did Malaysia have one of the fastest 4G speed in Global? 4G Malaysia speed can't even breakthrough Southeast Asia standard.

If speed is subjective, then what about customer experience and network consistency of 4G network? Malaysia literally have negative NPS. Is that the quality of what the competition really supposed to bring?

In theory, having competition is good because that's how Thailand and Singapore improve yet in Malaysia, it seems all the telco are living in their own cartel and doesn't even bother improving or innovate during 4G days.

Note: this is just my opinion. No hard feelings.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 05:19 PM

.
Afaik, 4G/5G Internet speed depends on how many frequency bands and their allocated bands (in MHz) can be used for "carrier aggregation". Eg U Mobile's 4G+ can use freq Band 1, 3, 7 and 8 with a total allocation of 90MHz for CA to achieve speeds of >100Mbps during off-peak hours.
....... DNB-5G has an allocation of 200MHz for it's mid-band (78) 3.5GHz which can be used for CA to achieve speeds of >300Mbps. Only it's high-band (257) 28GHz with an allocation of 1,600MHz for CA can achieve >1Gbps or >1,000Mbps.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Jul 1 2024, 08:48 PM

Since DNB already focus on 5G NSA, the second network should be focussing on 5G SA and match DNB's coverage.

Indeed, hence it would be good if MCMC regulate that all MNOs to allow MOCN. This is so we can fix the need to have multiple sim to cater to availability of cell coverage.

Very true example Digi Celcom merger since they both one coverage for both network now far better. Hope MCMC and Ministry deploy / force MOCN to get good 4G experience without just adding to many towers
Yes it's time to move on 5G SA network on 2nd network also implement Voiceover NR ( Vo5G)

This current 5G is a good example, all telco will have 5G at the same location because they use the same infra. Hence with the break up of DNB later, MCMC should also get both DNB1 and DNB2 to continue with this practice.

MNO selection for second 5G network to be done by year-end - Gobind
BERNAMA

KUALA LUMPUR: The process of selecting the mobile network operator (MNO) for the transition to the 5G dual wholesale network (DWN) model is expected to be completed by the end of this year, said Digital Minister Gobind Singh Deo.

He said all the conditions of the share subscription agreement (SSA) have been fulfilled by all the MNOs, and the Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) is looking forward to starting the selection process, which is the second stage towards the decision on who will develop the next 5G network.

“They (MCMC) were not been given a time frame for the process but I hope it could start moving before the end of this year,” he told reporters at the launch of TNG Digital Sdn Bhd’s gold investment product, e-Mas, today.



https://thesun.my/local-news/mno-selection-...bind-FA12656056

Went to Lowyat to fix my phone. Surprisingly the 5G speed is way slower than 4G+ despite repeating conducted the 5G speedtest

We really need another 5G network in cities to free up some of the DNB capacity

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 12:02 PM

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Probably because more subscribers have upgraded to 5G from 4G, believing they would always get faster speed than 4G but instead they themselves caused more network congestion on mid-band 5G = they get slower speed than 4G.
.

.
Fyi, the upcoming transition is 5G NSA ---> 5G SA ---> 5G Advanced = you will need to buy new phones to get 5G-A or 5G+ = Planned Obsolescence.? .......

https://www.androidauthority.com/5g-advance...lained-3430001/ - What is 5G Advanced and when will it release?
5G already has a semi-replacement on the horizon, here's what to expect from it.
By Calvin Wankhede
•
March 31, 2024
.

I'm bit suspicious with that 7Mbps upload. Does everyone have that 7Mbps upload problem as well? Because sometimes I have that problem.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 02:16 PM

The upload can go beyond 100Mbps at certain locations

I see, I guess it just random problem with my Yes FT5G Unlimited Plan then

Because eventhough we only see the word 4G/5G, cellular technology have its own "update" system. That system is update using "Release". Release 15 is 5G, Release 18 is 5G Advanced. So the modem need to support the Release to use that Release feature.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 02:25 PM

Theory A:
The area is getting congested which is happening because the lack of base station densification.

Theory B:
The device is only connected to DNB 700MHz low band which in theory can only receive 50Mbps - 100Mbps of speed which is what the Speedtest has shown.

This is just my assumption and theory. What happen is CelcomDigi have a bit of densitification than DNB in that area.

If we see the map below, CelcomDigi have 2 base stations available while DNB have only 1 base station and it is a bit far and blocked by the building nearby which make the signal fading.

Also using lower frequency of 1.8Ghz, the device can do carrier aggregation using the band available in CelcomDigi.

There is a high chance that the device is also not even using DNB 3.5GHz but instead use 700Mhz only which have the typical speed of 50Mbps - 100Mbps in 20MHz bandwidth range. If my theory is true, you pretty much get almost peak b28 frequency capability.

The only way to confirm this theory is true is someone having rooted Android phone with Network Signal Guru installed and see the data itself or you/someone can move closer to the base station and see if you get higher speed that reach beyond 100Mbps. Using this method we can confirm if the problem is theory A or theory B.


Celcom base station


DNB base station

The solution in my opinion is for DNB to introduce more basetation closer to lowyat so atleast the n78 frequency can go through the building or maybe just build DAS inside lowyat building.

------

This is me just sharing brain dead oppinion. Since DNB is an MOCN. Getting 60Mbps speed in dense area is kinda impressive since it hold all of the telco capacity in 1 base station only.

Especially if we put in context that currently DNB is in "Phase 1" of just laying out the basic 5G coverage only and no densification is done yet.

Which in my opinion, already fill it roles greatly, now DNB just to put more base station and see how it goes.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 03:35 PM

Or maybe because 4G get offloaded as well, since the people there mostly have 5G phone, there is a chance that 4G capacity get a major breathing space which ironically makes it faster than 5G.

i have to agree with you on this.

Telcos are not interested to setup their coverage in low return areas. They are business entities, not charity. This explains the gap in 4G coverage.

Some form of government intervention is needed.

Take rural Sarawak for example. Some areas only have few remote rumah panjang with families up to 100-200 people. No telco would want to setup coverage there.

Your assumption was my assumption, but nope

It is connected to the n78, without n78 it was much worse and unbearable and no 5G DAS nor pRRU was deployed. Pretty much rely on outdoor coverage

The indoor coverage of CelcomDigi was integrated, and I got 3CA of B7+B7+B3. Total of 2x60MHz.

Maxis has also B1+B3+B7 3CA and getting around 200Mbps when inside the building.

5G congestion is really a thing now here in the metropolitan part of KL. Sometimes it could be quite unbearable during peak hour

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 04:21 PM

Attached thumbnail(s)

There's 2 major problems on the DNB 5G network

1. Only prioritize on population coverage. There are certain areas despite lack of ''residential areas'' but are trunk roads but show close to 0 coverage if no residential areas close to it. For example, the north south highway.
2. Poor to no indoor coverage deployment

It reminded me of U Mobile during the early day (about 10 years ago). Pretty much no indoor coverage deployed. Even if there's 3G or 4G indoor, it basically just signal from outdoor penetrates through the building. The network become very congested during peak hour because there was no in-building coverage offloading the network from the outdoor antenna

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 04:38 PM

It seems Theory A is the problem. DNB really need to speed up rolling out their indoors 5G DAS. I'm not sure what building that have indoor 5G DAS in Malaysia currently because I never seen one.

And based on your experience, all that UE in peak time is really choking on that one base station which prove to be to much to handle.


Note:
I heard that the goverment parliament building have 5G DAS but I can't verify it myself.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 05:35 PM

5G Connectivity In Malaysia Reaches 81.7 %

The 5G coverage in populated areas across Malaysia has now reached 81.7%, with 7,114 5G sites established nationwide, the Dewan Rakyat was informed today (July 3).



Deputy Minister of Communications Teo Nie Ching stated that the current focus for constructing the 5G network is on urban areas with high economic activity. However, expansion into other areas, including rural regions, has begun and will continue periodically.

Teo’s remarks were in response to Hassan Saad (PN-Baling), who inquired about the government’s plan to build more substations to enhance high-speed internet access (5G) in rural areas.

The current 5G rollout is concentrated in urban areas with high economic activity.

However, the Nie Ching confirmed that efforts to extend coverage to rural and less populated regions have begun and will continue progressively.

She assured that expanding 5G infrastructure to rural areas remains a priority as part of the government’s commitment to improving internet access nationwide.

In response to a supplementary question from Dr. Mohammed Taufiq Johari (PH-Sungai Petani) about complaint channels for coverage issues, Teo mentioned that complaints can be filed through the Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) WhatsApp hotline at 0162206262 or via the Commission’s website.

For members of Parliament, Teo noted that complaints can also be lodged at the MCMC Complaint Counter available at the Parliament building.

Run as non profit? LOL... bro, is there anything commercial that are being run non profit? Be realistic.

I think it is important to have a 2nd 5G network if they are planning to shutdown 4G network in near future. Otherwise DNB would be the only backbone for telecommunication and if it breaks down, hell breaks lose.

Telcos restricted to single equity stake in second 5G network

KUALA LUMPUR: Mobile network operators (MNOs) involved in Malaysia’s second 5G network are restricted to holding equity in only one entity, deputy communications minister Teo Nie Ching said today.

She said this measure aims to foster healthy competition between the two entities in developing Malaysia’s 5G network infrastructure, ensuring high-quality services for the public.

Under the MNOs and Digital Nasional Bhd (DNB) agreement, she said each MNO must choose to invest in DNB (entity A) or that for the second 5G network (entity B).

“After the conclusion of the applicant information package (AIP) process, the successful tenderer will lead entity B, while unsuccessful bidders will remain in entity A.

“Those in entity B will sell their shares in DNB, ensuring the formation of two distinct entities,” she said during a question-and-answer session in the Dewan Rakyat today in response to Chong Zhemin (PH-Kampar) about whether the government would prohibit the same telco company from holding equity in both 5G network companies.

The Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission has been tasked with selecting a mobile network service provider to develop Malaysia’s second 5G network, commencing with the AIP process on July 1, 2024.

Four MNOs – YTL Power International, CelcomDigi, Maxis and U Mobile – had finalised a share subscription agreement with DNB and the Ministry of Finance Incorporated (MoF Inc) on Dec 1, 2023, paving the way for the transition to the 5G dual wholesale network model.

Regarding the distribution of DNB’s equity to telco companies, Teo said the shareholding structure would be adjusted to 30% for MoF Inc and 14% for each MNO, following Telekom Malaysia’s completion of its share subscription agreement with MoF Inc and DNB by Aug 21, 2024.

You want to hear a prediction?

DNB - TM and YTL
Entity B - CelcomDigi, Maxis and UMobile

Quite possible. Entity B will have the largest user base and they better build it to cater for high traffic. They should also allow all telcos to roam on DNB network.

This post has been edited by YoungMan: Jul 3 2024, 09:11 PM

Malaysia 5G rollout model likely to be more robust - analyst
By Azanis Shahila Aman, S.Birruntha
July 2, 2024 @ 8:03am


KUALA LUMPUR: The adoption of mass-market 5G-powered services is expected to be rapid and robust, as telecommunication (telco) operators will have greater scope and incentive to keep consumer costs fairly low.

According to BMI Research head of technology and telecoms research Andrew Kitson, the Malaysian model – where existing telcos are obligated to take an investment position in the business, is likely to prove more robust.

In comparison, the high cost of building and commercialising competing 3G, 4G, and 5G networks in other markets has weighed on all industry stakeholders' bottom lines.

Kitson noted that profitability has been slow to materialise for many players, while some have not survived to maturity, and these issues were behind recent mergers and acquisitions (M&As) in many Asian markets, including Malaysia (CelcomDigi).

Nevertheless, he said that the Malaysian 5G model raises concerns about conflicting shareholder demands that might affect the pace or direction of deployment plans in specific regions.

Kitson also pointed out that the government's plan to press ahead with a second wholesale 5G network also presents some downside risks.

He said the main risk is a potential oversupply; a second 5G network may not be used to its full potential if the existing operators do not participate in that and try to compete with it for customers.

"It would be helpful if the government were to lay out in some detail the business model and strategy for the second 5G network—will the five telcos be required to invest in that? Will asset duplication occur? Will the second 5G network serve a specific type of customer?

"The ideal would be for the DNB-backed 5G network to serve basic mass-market connectivity needs and for the second network to serve specific enterprise, industry, or government needs that do not overlap with or cannibalise the business of the DNB network," he noted.

Last week Malaysia's four major mobile network operators—CelcomDigi Bhd through Infranation Sdn Bhd, Maxis Broadband Sdn Bhd, U Mobile Sdn Bhd, and YTL Communications Sdn Bhd through YTL Power International Bhd— acquired equity stakes in Digital Nasional Bhd (DNB).

The fifth telco, Telekom Malaysia Bhd ™ has until August 21, 2024, to get shareholder approval to complete its share subscription agreement (SSA).

Under the terms of the SSAs, the five telcos are to collectively acquire a 70 per cent equity stake in DNB, with each telco holding a 14 per cent stake.

The government, represented by Ministry of Finance Incorporated (MoF Inc.), will retain a 30 per cent stake and a special share in DNB for a designated period.

Kitson said that under the DNB scheme, operators will not be able to differentiate in terms of quality of network or coverage.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 11:32 PM

Valid bro

GSA: 5G Experience June 2024




Ironically with existence of DNB, telco in Malaysia can "claim" to have one of the fastest 5G speed in the world. Yet seeing the 4G data, our telco is not even close to the top 4 of fastest 4G telco.

So why 4G with more competitive environment fail to gain ranking or speed? I thought competition should driven telco to be better yet it's DNB that carrying telco name to the top of the world.







This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 14 2024, 01:41 PM

Our 4g where got real competition. If telco A already build infra in 1 area, most likely other telcos will not invest in the same area. Hence coverage differ for each telcos.

speedtest does not reflect the real usage of 5G...
it should consider the stability and also the coverage
I think only Malaysia mostly does not have indoor 5G coverage...

I can imagine if without DNB... Every day i will be frustrating which telco has 5G at which area and port here and there is required if user move from here to there. And now every single site DNB built on the earth, it will be serving all malaysia telco users.

Of coz, y inbuilding has no 5G covered? Coz the spectrum can be used for existing 2G3G4G indoor booster are hold by those legacy telco. As long as they willing to return the spectrum to gov and gov reassign to DNB, then we can have 5G indoor ... (But who will, except the celcomdigi consolidation spectrum return which is year 2026?)

Else, DNB need to get all approval from building owner to build a total new indoor system which may take longer time for setup 5G indoor system which support 3.5Ghz and 700mhz

This post has been edited by prosibu: Jul 15 2024, 04:24 PM

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DNB should transition from 5G NSA to 5G SA asap, in order to release it's own low-band 700MHz/Band 28 for better 5G indoor coverage.
....... Hopefully, DNB2 can straightaway deploy 5G SA with a low-band 5G frequency in early 2025. .......

https://www.fierce-network.com/5g/standalon...o%20the%20punch. - WIRELESS
Standalone 5G summer: Where's T-Mobile at with 5G SA?
By Dan Jones
Jul 5, 2023
.... T-Mobile was the first mobile network operator in the world to switch on a standalone (SA) 5G network. It turned on its 600 MHz low-band nationwide 5G SA network on August 4, 2020, beating even Chinese operators like China Mobile (SHA: 600941) to the punch.

https://stlpartners.com/articles/network-in...one-deployment/ - Sep 2023 - 5G SA deployment

https://gsacom.com/press-release/115-operat...-5g-standalone/ - 2 Aug 2023 - 115 mobile operators now investing in 5G Standalone networks globally
.... Of these, GSA data confirms that at least 36 operators in 25 countries and territories are now understood to have launched or deployed public 5G Standalone (SA) networks, two of which have only soft-launched their 5G SA networks. Reflecting the growth in 5G SA network deployments, the new 5G Standalone report also confirms that the number of announced 5G SA devices has now risen to 1,750 in July 2023, up from 686 at the end of 2021. As the 5G SA ecosystem grows, it is now supported by 86 announced modems and chipsets, with new features set to widen adoption in the future. ...
.

But I doubt the 2nd network will transition to 5G SA instantly when they are release since 5G SA is about cost issue and the cost to setup standalone network is very expensive. There is a reason why only minority of MNOs have standalone 5G network in the whole world.

MNOs itself is not a charity. They won't bother about investing in SA since they themselves doesn't know how to take advantage of the standalone network other than the talking about nonexistent problem.


https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insigh...ne-yoy-in-2023/

Speed doesn't reflect real 5G usage but it certainly show the incompetence of Malaysia telco 4G network before.

What im trying to say is why DNB can somehow have higher speed globally in 3 years of 5G implementation? Does the telco themselves compete with others 4G telco globally when 4G is released?

I mean during that time also Malaysia lacks 4G indoor coverage yet Malaysia telco still can't compete when in theory, competition between telco should bring Malaysia name to the top right?

5G vs 4G speeds from Digi Bukit Tinggi Klang near SK Batu Unjur.

Even Maxis 5G also same result


Attached thumbnail(s)

.
https://nybsys.com/what-is-5g-standalone/ - 24 April 2024
.... Well, 4G to 5G transition involves a critical intermediate step known as 5G NSA. In this network, the 5G networks are built on the existing 4G LTE infrastructure. Through this, the Mobile Network Operators (MNOs) leverage their existing network investments. ...

AFAIK, when DNB started deploying it's 5G NSA network in mid 2021, DNB had no existing 4G LTE infrastructure to build on, ie DNB had to start from scratch - hence, the high costs in DNB deploying it's 5G NSA network = RM16.5 billion over 10 years to achieve 99% coverage.
....... So, DNB should have straightaway deployed 5G SA = only slightly higher costs than deploying 5G NSA.

.
Note that 5G has higher download speeds is mainly because DNB has a 200MHz range for it's mid-band 3.5GHz for Carrier Aggregation. In comparison, U Mobile only has a total of 90MHz range for it's sub-3GHz 4G LTE frequency bands. .......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_Advanced
.... LTE Advanced Pro (LTE-A Pro, also known as 4.5G, 4.5G Pro, 4.9G, Pre-5G, 5G Project) is a name for 3GPP release 13 and 14. It is an evolution of LTE Advanced (LTE-A) cellular standard supporting data rates in excess of 3 Gbit/s using 32-carrier aggregation. ...
.

I agree with you on that, its mind boggling to know that DNB is still rolling out as NSA when they can just go directly to SA and get advantage of low band for 5G.
Edit: @tropik explain how DNB implement the MOCN clearly.
---
Just for clarification, when I'm comparing the speed, the context is 4G vs 4G or 5G vs 5G. Not 4G vs 5G to be precise.

Like on the data below, we can see how big the gap is between Malaysia 4G and top 4 country 4G speed.

Its not like Malaysia get cheaper 4G internet while having slow 4G speed. I literally can find faster (in context of global 5G speed ranking) and cheaper 5G plan and still doesn't get punish with coverage or speed limit because all 5G in Malaysia is the same.



This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 18 2024, 02:19 AM

Maxis mulling U Mobile buyout, Bloomberg reports

(July 16): Maxis Bhd (KL:MAXIS), a Malaysian telecommunications firm controlled by billionaire T Ananda Krishnan, is considering buying out U Mobile Sdn Bhd to help it expand in the Asian country, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Kuala Lumpur-listed Maxis has expressed interest in U Mobile and talks are at an early stage, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing private information.

Malaysian businessman Tan Sri Vincent Tan Chee Yioun and Temasek Holdings Pte Ltd-backed Singapore Technologies Telemedia Pte Ltd are among U Mobile’s major shareholders.

Pricing could be a hurdle to a potential buyout, with U Mobile’s owners seeking a valuation of more than RM10 billion, according to the people. There’s no guarantee that a deal will be reached, they said.

In a message to Bloomberg News on Monday, Tan said U Mobile was rejecting the buyout offer and planning to file for an initial public offering (IPO) at the end of July. U Mobile has been considering an IPO since 2021.

“We are rejecting Maxis' offer,” Tan wrote in response to a query from Bloomberg. “We are submitting for an IPO at the end of this month.”

A representative for U Mobile said the company wouldn’t comment on market speculation. “We are very focused on delivering more innovative 5G products and services to our customers, and doing the prep work required to respond to the Applicant Information Package issued by Malaysia’s government to participate in the tender for building the nation’s second 5G network,” she said.

Representatives for Maxis and ST Telemedia declined to comment.

Founded in 2006, U Mobile is Malaysia’s youngest telecom company, according to its website. It has more than 4,000 4G websites and a network ready for 5G, the website shows. It also offers services including fintech and digital payments. Last month, it signed an agreement for an undisclosed equity stake in state-owned Digital Nasional Bhd, which is building 5G infrastructure in the country.

Maxis shares have fallen 9.4% this year, giving it a market value of RM27.3 billion. The company has over 13 million customers and a fibre network of more than 22,000km, according to its annual report.

Ironically, I already highlight the potential "merging" situation in Malaysia telco industry on previous post.

[quote=OfficiallyAhmad,Jul 16 2024, 07:38 PM]
Ironically, I already highlight the potential "merging" situation in Malaysia telco industry on previous post.
But in reality, telco themselves already being push by the society to push down the prices, what DNB do is giving these MNOs breathing space to continue exist because what gonna happen otherwise is something that already happen before, which is the merging of the MNOs company.[/quote]

[/quote]
u know why the original merger between digi & celcom took place?
bcoz experts agree that too many saturated telecom providers in m'sia.
in contrast, USA being a big country by area, with 10x the population of m'sia also has like 3 real bug players only.
now look at smaller country Singapore, technically only 2 real big players, hence the competition is there.
m'sia size & population, ideally u'll want 2-3 big players for competition


DNB, while sounds good & fair on paper, but it totally eliminate any 5G competition whatsoever.
every1 gets the same coverage, the same speed.
we need a 2nd 5G network where telecom players has more control, hence driving competition & innovation.
i'm waiting to see which telco will introduce true SA 5G first.
current DNB NSA 5G is nvr true 5G & always just a stop gap solution.

But the same thing also sound good on paper for the telco "competitions" I even show the data not hearsay about how slow Malaysia 4G is in context of others 4G speed on other country.

Can you tell me what innovation that telco do in 4G days other than coverage? Like that is the only "innovation" the telco can think of and then rip Malaysian money off because they have better coverage while the Malaysian until now still have broken congested 4G services 10 years later?

Im a person of facts and the facts is DNB has proven their worthy in only just 3 years.

What data should I see or believe that Malaysia telco is competent in the" competitions"? Because like I said before, I literally can find cheaper 5G plan with unlimited speed and FUP than 4G.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 16 2024, 08:14 PM

[quote=unknown_2,Jul 16 2024, 08:04 PM]

[/quote]
u know why the original merger between digi & celcom took place?
bcoz experts agree that too many saturated telecom providers in m'sia.
in contrast, USA being a big country by area, with 10x the population of m'sia also has like 3 real bug players only.
now look at smaller country Singapore, technically only 2 real big players, hence the competition is there.
m'sia size & population, ideally u'll want 2-3 big players for competition
DNB, while sounds good & fair on paper, but it totally eliminate any 5G competition whatsoever.
every1 gets the same coverage, the same speed.
we need a 2nd 5G network where telecom players has more control, hence driving competition & innovation.
i'm waiting to see which telco will introduce true SA 5G first.
current DNB NSA 5G is nvr true 5G & always just a stop gap solution.

[/quote]
Suppose the buyout of Umobile happen, we still have TM and Yes, which is still a good competition for Malaysia. But come to think of the current situation, what can justify Maxis spending over 10 billion to buy out this Uncle Vincent's company?
Same coverage and same speed illiminate the headache of getting multiple line if one is to travel a lot. Unless there is a mandate for roaming across all 4g/5g regardless who own it.

u can literally tell the different telco 4G coverage & speed.
telco also introduce 4G+, & various bands biding that pushes 4G speed more than 100+ Mbps.
when 4G was first launched, it was like 20-40 real world speedtest.
at the same time, cost per gigabite of 4G also reduced a lot compared to when first launched.

if u stick wit DNB only, most likely u:ll use the same tech, get the same speed (if not slower when it's congested) throughout the DNB contract period.
price also same cuz the agreement fixed the ceiling price per gigabit for the duration of contract.
we'll nvr get to experience true 5G tech wit DNB.

This post has been edited by unknown_2: Jul 16 2024, 08:30 PM

umobile used to ride on maxis infra in early days.
nowadays umobile has built their own infra, but i'm not sure if still partly ride on maxis infra, i suspect they do.

fyi, nowadays umobile also has partnership wit TIME.
so by buying umobile, we might even see maxis leverage on TIME infra.
as for umobile board, no board members will turn away free money.

if such accusation does happen, it will take many years & lobbying with the lawmakers.
most importantly is need to get the go ahead from government.

To make it a bit fair, I will show the data of 3 years after 4G rollout in Malaysia.

After 3 years of 4G existence in Malaysia, the median speed is only 7.93 Mbps. The lowest median speed in the top 10 ranking for 4G is Sweeden 19.89Mbps.

https://www.opensignal.com/reports/2016/08/...-mobile-network

After 4 years of 4G existence in Malaysia, our median 4G speed only reach 14.35Mbps which is still very far from the lowest top 10 speed which is Australia 33Mbps.

https://www.opensignal.com/reports/2017/06/state-of-lte

While DNB in just 2 years manage to bring Malaysia to the top of the world which the telco never manage to reach until now.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 16 2024, 10:06 PM

u wan fair, u should compare the median speed 2 years after the 2nd 5G network roll out vs DNB after 2 years.

our 5G now looks good on paper, speedtest fast on local server.
go international server, sometimes slower than 4G.
current 5G is only good enough for sequential download.

that's y we need true 5G.
DG 5G median speed is slower than MY.
but if u actually go there to experience Singtel 5G for example, i guarantee the experience is more pleasant than any telco in MY.
probably cuz better latency with NSA.

You said 5G only good on paper but isn't the article from Opensignal I shown also used the same destination for both 4G and 5G.

If 4G test using local destination while 5G on other locations how is that fair? Are you trying to say that if 4G speed using local server is slow, the international is much slower as well?

Also why do I need to wait 2 years to make it fair when the comparison is about Malaysia "competitive" vs "monopoly" network.

Malaysia "competitive" 4G network until now still can't reach the top 10 speed of the fastest 4G network in the world. But DNB 5G "monopoly" has already in the top 5 of the fastest 5G speed in the world.


https://www.lowyat.net/2022/266106/malaysia...load-speed-sea/

If 5G is only good on paper, what is your explanation for Malaysia "good" 4G network? This article is literally in 2022 which mean 5G already release yet where is the "competitions" benefits of 4G networks other than bringing shame to Malaysia?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 16 2024, 10:31 PM

4G wasn't the best is m'sia.
but if the roll out is like current 5G, i would argued that it would hav be worst.
but this is something we will nvr find out.

u dont need a genius to know that competition always drives progress.
& that is the number 1 thing that is lacking wit DNB single wholesale rollout. there're just aren't any competition at all.
ask yourself this, in your years of experience in terms of work, society, as consumer, hav u ever seen good things comes out of no competition?

also, NSA 5G is just a quick & "cheat" way to deploy 5G & expand coverage.
somewhere down the road, u'll still need to deploy true SA 5G.
& we're heading to the right direction now.
wit 2d 5G network, telco will duke it out to deploy SA 5G in densely populated cities, while current NSA 5G for wider coverage to rural area.

Instead of acquiring one to one brand why not Telco can't joint hands with MCMC to deploy MOCN too all their customers. You get profit by sharing infra to others Telco also getting satisfying network to consumers..

Like now DNB with 5G all Telco users getting 5G network with same coverage and network. Easy win. Off course in business terms it's kinda win or lose but again at least you can be truthful to consumers. It's 2024 still 4G coverage is spotty. Like A Telco had good coverage where B C doesn't have coverage in particular area

You argue that we will never found out yet the data from Opensignal already show you the answer.

You said if 4G is SWN, it will be worse, but again, where is the data that said Malaysia has one of the fast 4G network in the world?

Yet the worse 5G "monopoly" easily in the top 5 of 5G speed global ranking.

But the "competitions" you said mean the killing of small telco networks while keeping the duopoly which doesn't improve our experience or improve the price of the 4G plan itself.

Even @tropik is aware of this problem, cellular infrastructure is not like the typical product in supermarket where the more option is better. The network need to be activated at all times and if there is no customer, no MNOs will survive to maintain it.

With CelcomDigi already merging and with rumors of Maxis - Umobile merging, do you think the theory of "competitions" work in cellular industry? The merging doesn't stop in Malaysia, it is happening around the world.

Telco is struggling to maintain the network and the "competitions" you been talking about will be gone sooner or later eventually. Malaysia goverment is literally being proactive by helping telco survive because the telco themselves will be bleeding money to death just trying to invest in 5G infrastructure. This is not even my word, but from the expert itself.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/malays...-berhad-4271661

If you think private telco duopoly is good enough for "competitions", you can ask Thailand people themselves.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/economy/40036133

5G NSA (Option 3x) is chosen also because eMBB is what the majority of of the consumer gonna get. The 5G core which is cloud dependent solution is also still a new concept in cellular infrastructure and not matured yet.
While URLCC and mMTC still has unknown real world usage and no MNO in the world know how to take advantages of it.

Telco will "duke" out 5G yet 4G fail the rural people so much that goverment literally need to create JENDELA just to push telco for coverage? What about the congestion? 4G has been in the decade yet call problem and congestion still happening. Is this the result of "competition"?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 17 2024, 01:35 PM

Probably from the telcos point of view, it is one way to kill off their rival. If Telco A dominate in certain area, then ppl who frequent that place will have no choice but to subscribe to them. If All the telcos have the same coverage, only thing they can do is see who can throw price. It benefits the consumer but not the telcos.
Same thing happen to our national HSBB infra, whereby if you want to subscribe other fibre provider riding on HSBB, there is always the excuse of no port. But if you subscribe to the main fibre provider, suddently from no port someone will come and add additional port for you.
I support another merger, be it Maxis-Umobile or Umobile-Unifi or Yes-whatever. After merger we still have Tm and a few more telcos, perhaps one of the MVNO can finally come out to be MNO.

[deleted

This post has been edited by NagaK: Jul 17 2024, 05:33 PM

Understand. I'm more happy if less MNO but better service coverage and value for money hope another merger soon.

In what country that you get better value price when there is less MNOs option?

Having affordable price is wrong now?

All that extra money will go towards the shareholder. The MNOs couldn't care less about improving their services.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 17 2024, 11:37 PM

Heard there are 20+ 5G indoor coverage only, all government buildings.



Lot of access to MCMC documents eh.... so is it true the 2nd network requirement is to have 80% population coverage in 9 months time?



Hmm, I thought the NSA/SA thing has nothing to do with RAN but more with the telco core? DNB just divert the traffic back to each telco core, they do not connect end users with the internet.

If I remember correctly, this year new SA deployment is zero so far, on a global scale. Very depressing...

I wish I have insider info but sadly im not. This info is posted by MCMC themselves on Twitter.
https://x.com/MCMC_RASMI/status/1811249860303339563

It seems you are absolutely correct about the NSA implementation. It is even mentioned by Ericsson themselves that DNB is a multi core network which means the MNOs themselves that is preventing DNB from being fully 5G standalone.


https://www.ericsson.com/en/cases/2024/digi...ased-operations


This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 18 2024, 02:11 AM

4G is the worst in the world ok..... Malaysia Gov assign 10mhz to 8 telco which is terrible...
4G standard is 20mhz but with 10mhz, all users stuck with the 10mhz and the speed cannot be increased...
same goes to fiber, if the speed is 100gbps for ur house only, ur traffic wont occupy whole the backbone to internet, which finish your download within 1s...
but if ur fiber is 100kbps, then u need to occupy the backbone for hours to finish ur task.

Now u c, after celcomdigi merged, although the spectrum is not consolidated (user either only served by digi spectrum OR celcom spectrum), but both users can freely utilize both spectrum for those site been consolidated, so the speed is normally over 300mbps.

But maybe license issue, celcomdigi not allow CA between digi and celcom spectrum... else 600mbps 4G easily archieved.

No one said it's wrong. If possible everyone of us would be happy when all telcos give rm10 unlimited 4g and 5g no capped no FUP no hotspot limit, can download 20tb a month. But whether we like it or not, there also comes business consideration along the line. When telco got to pay DNB for how many gb of usage, they also will think of how to cut cost, for example provide 5g with speed limit, make 4g less reliable so that people pay more for 5g plan. Any problem with this single 5g, can just push the blame to DNB.
There has to be second 5g, SA or NSA, but definitely not 3rd, 4th and 5th 5g network to saturate the market.

TLDR;
the more gohmen intervention, the crappier the service.
just like DNB.