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 DNB and 2nd 5G network: needed or not?

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SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jan 23 2025, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Jan 22 2025, 02:22 PM)
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Are you saying DNB1's Ericsson equipment from Sweden has hidden backdoor spyware for the FBI.?
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Back in 2022, when the US exited Russian market they were known to have the ability to remotely disable all their network equipments in Russia and turning on the kill switches before they fall into the hands of the Russians.

China network modernization is slowly removing all US branded telco switching and routing equipments from their national networks today for security reasons.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5505893


SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jan 23 2025, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Jan 23 2025, 11:29 PM)
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https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/i...lecoms-industry - DGAP Analysis - The Impact and Limits of Sanctions on Russia’s Telecoms Industry
Maria Kolomychenko - 12 March 2024

.... I explain how the Russian telecoms sector functions, the reasons behind its total reliance on Western technology, and how it manages to survive under sanctions. I then examine three vectors that the Russian telecommunications industry is currently pursuing in detail:

- The continuation of the purchase of advanced Western telecom equipment using so-called gray or parallel imports
- The search for new suppliers in Asia and the forging of stronger ties with second-tier (“tier 2”) suppliers from countries that have not joined export restrictions toward Russia
- Attempts to stimulate the production of domestic telecom equipment and the transition of telecom operators to its use

This analysis lays out why large telecom operators in Russia are not ready to risk their business and experiment with unknown equipment. Instead, they willingly take advantage of the government’s permission to “parallel import” the necessary equipment. As a result, despite the withdrawal of global vendors like Cisco, Nokia, and Ericsson from the Russian market, their equipment worth tens of millions of dollars is still supplied to Russia. While these are huge figures in absolute terms, far more is needed to fully meet the industry’s needs.  ...

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So, how come Russia has been buying US$ millions of USA's Cisco equipment via parallel imports using 3rd-party countries like China and Israel.?
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Also, hidden kill switches =/= hidden backdoor spyware, and ...

"killing" subscription-based cloud services =/= hidden backdoor spyware.
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Russia is still buying Cisco equipment today? You got to be kidding right? Why would they need to when then can easily obtained OpenRAN products directly from OEM China vendors and code their own?

They won't even touch Cisco's or Western coded firmwares because anyday you never know when it's going to be taken down remotely or malfunctioned due to hidden backdoors intentionally implanted in them.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jan 24 2025, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Jan 23 2025, 11:41 PM)
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Fyi, .......

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/lat...cl-co-comments/ - 17 Oct 2022
Author:
James Rogers, MarketWatch
Cisco ended operations in Russia, but its gear allegedly being shipped through China & other countries; incl. co. comments

Cisco gear is being shipped into Russia from China and other countries, leaked customs database shows, 17 October 2022

A purportedly leaked Russian customs database shows around 500 shipments of Cisco gear arriving in Russia in August, months after the networking giant halted its business operations in that country.

Information extracted from the database and shared with MarketWatch appears to show that Cisco Systems Inc. products entered Russia from a number of countries, with the majority of shipments coming from China. Other countries of origin include Vietnam, Switzerland, Mexico, Malaysia, Australia, Thailand and Holland, as well as the U.S., according to the data.

In the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February, a host of major U.S. corporations, including Cisco, ended their Russian operations...

“On March 3, 2022, Cisco announced stopping all business operations in Russia and Belarus, including sales and services,” a Cisco spokesperson told MarketWatch via email. “This included discontinuing business with all Cisco partners and distributors in Russia and Belarus, which means they can no longer source products via authorized channels.

“On June 23, we announced the decision to begin an orderly wind-down of our business in Russia and Belarus,” the Cisco spokesperson added. “Cisco stands by this decision”... ....

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Back in 2022? Isn't that old news? Why would they need to when there's OpenRAN(ORAN) now which uses open sourced firmware which they can sourced OEM equipment directly from China instead where the parts are manufactured?

OpenRAN (O-RAN) for 5G explained: - 5G Networks
https://www.5g-networks.net/openran-o-ran-for-5g-explained/

Cisco exit will drive Russia further into China's embrace
https://www.lightreading.com/routing-switch...china-s-embrace

Telecommunications Industry in Russia - Statistics & Facts (Sept 2024)
https://www.statista.com/topics/10390/telec...stry-in-russia/

What’s behind the rise of Chinese brands on the Russian electronics market (and how you can use it)
https://yandex.com/adv/news/what-s-behind-t...-you-can-use-it

I yielded very little results using Google and Bing on this subject so I decided Yandex was a better way to find out about Russia. Many of their locally established network companies are rarely heard of outside and they sourced sophisticated core switching equipment now from China.

https://aeroleads.com/list/top-telecommunic...anies-in-russia
https://techbehemoths.com/companies/telecom/russia
https://www.statista.com/topics/10390/telec...stry-in-russia/

Try going more to Russian Youtube alternatives to read more on their latest developments.

Rostelecom Russia's largest telecom company closest development partner is Huawei.

https://rutube.ru/video/379f4123a08f81f5572151da542e3d80/
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Feb 20 2025, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(Epic_winner091 @ Feb 18 2025, 07:44 PM)
I saw 100 + 20 MHz. Is it aggregation n78 with n28?
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From the screenshot it's purely N78 only but intraband-CA. Meaning bonding of 2 channels from same band range.

N78 can be very weak because it is operating at 3.5GHz. It cannot cover wide areas unless base stations are extensive.


SUSpetpenyubobo
post Feb 22 2025, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(Epic_winner091 @ Feb 21 2025, 05:13 PM)
Looks like there is n28 if you go on Cellmapper.
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Based on rigorous and through tests conducted in India for some time now for over a year now with Jio, they are using the same model there with solutions from Nokia and Ericsson. Huawei is not allowed in India market due to a reason you know why smile.gif





Test was shown at the end of the video standing just right below the base station just metres away.

As you can see, India 5G band utilization is very SIMILAR to that implemented in Malaysia.They are also using NR-5G SA: N28 (10MHz) + N78 (100MHz)

With 5G-SA, you no longer need to be connected with B28 to anchor band with N78. Both can operate individually as they are called "Stand-Alones". Studies have shown that (read the reviews on both videos), combining both N28+N78 yield little improvements when doing CA.

In fact, NR5G N78+N28 combination is not recommended and included in 3GPP standard papers. When you bond both the bands, the smaller bandwidth N28 will tend to drag N78 performance down with it causing performance degradation/slower speeds. With 5G-SA, it's better to have one single band with wide channel or intraband CA than to to interband CA of multiple bands.

This is more towards Nokia and Ericsson which caters for South Asia markets.

Not sure what Huawei will bring to the table to differentiate themselves with the competition. If they want to innovate and stand out, they need to bring something different that improvises over Bharat competition.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 24 2025, 01:13 PM

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The DNB model of shared ownership by all players is actually the best model that prevents monopoly practices.
However the recent award of DNB 2 to Umobile alone if not careful is repeating the same mistake as TM's previous HSBB open network once again.
You're allowing a player who is in the consumer ISP retail business to manage an open network which rents part of it to other players.

A monopoly and unfair practices will surely happen again with the owner of the network prioritizing the network for themselves instead.
Just as how the other ISPs always complaining that TM Unifi prioritizes its services above them when it comes to repairs and breakdowns.

How could they not see the same thing happening again with DNB2?

MCMC must insist that DNB 2 be opened up to other players and be allowed equal shareholding before awarding the licensing rights for another alternative open network.



SUSpetpenyubobo
post May 29 2025, 12:05 AM

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If all the other telcos (previous Big 3 - Maxis & Celcom/DiGi(now merged) and even YES refuses to join DNB 2 as an equal share partner the 5G network will be dead on arrival and worst it relies on TM's nationwide fibre network leasing to power their base stations.

CAPEX for DNB 2 will become a burden for U Mobile being a smaller telco among the other Big 3 which will cost them to raise their subscription rates to push it to users.

SG has already divested their shareholding in the company so it'll make fundraising even harder for them to build the nation's 2nd 5G network by themselves.

What are they thinking? Are they planning to swallow it all by themselves and repeat the same failed game as TM's HSBB so called Open Network but one single company owns it all but intend to do wholesale to other retail service providers?


SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jun 2 2025, 08:31 PM

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QUOTE(OfficiallyAhmad @ Jun 2 2025, 08:05 PM)

I agree that giving the second wholesale network to Umobile can be a mistake because of concern about MNO priority possibility and Umobile funding capibility. In my oppinion, Only Maxis and CelcomDigi should be the only MNO that enter the submission.
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The BIGGEST mistake is MCMC awarding just to one single company instead of insisting of a consortium of joint partnership between several telcos among the BIG-3.

How can it just went ahead to award to some small unproven company which wasn't even one of the Big-3 getting 100% of the award.

It's just too sus.

The whole model of a DNB shared network is supposed to be an open one of a joint consortium with shared ownership/stakes like many countries did even with DNB 1 as its base model.

Why the sudden award to just 1 small company leaving out the rest? It'll surely end up as a monopoly in future.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jun 29 2025, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Jun 21 2025, 03:01 PM)
Main problem is DNB was setup without telco in it and made technical decision and procurement to select a vendor that is incompatible with any operators in Malaysia. DNB got in billions ringgit of debt guarantee by MOF.

Unlike other countries where the telcos were the one forming the consortium to decide on the technology behind and also the contract agreement.

The only value with DNB to telco now is the 5G license spectrum, the rest are all bad debts… MOF not wanting to cover the debt now is seeking bailout from the two richer telco, that is why the 2nd license given to UM (one of the reason beside meow)

Therefore, in summary, DNB is a mistake by MOF (Finance minister back then- Z) and now gov wants telco to bail it out …

5G by individual telco > 5G Consortium by telco (like Korea or Singapore) > 5G Consortium by MOF (DNB)

DNB SWN is the only one in the world not setup by telco but by Ministry of Finance that does not know shit about 5G …
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That is not a problem but an advantage which gave equal footing and rights to all participating telcos which had shared equal ownership in it.

TM HSBB was a fine example of a monopoly failure.

It was awarded the right to build a so called OPEN access fibre network that gave equal access to all participating telco yet it also ran a retail service provider (RSP)/consumer ISP against all other telcos that used the open network?

The result?

Unfair access to other telcos who were renting from them, everyone had to use their wholesale equipment and couldn't use spare dark fibres for their own system deployment, every other telco could only access Layer 3 onwards. They could not connect spare fibres as equal share holder to the network with their own head end equipments.

All participating ISPs are subjected to TM's wholesale monopoly pricing which was known to favor their own ISP while other players were given the short end of the stick.

Why do you think Time until now refused to sell their service on TM's HSBB wholesale network?

DNB resolved that very issue. By giving all participating telcos EQUAL shareholding, no other player has advantage or monopoly against the rest of the members. DNB as the infra owner does not run their own telco which competes with the rest of the telco players.

Now that Umobile is repeating the very same failure which TM did, and burdened with the entire investment themselves I do have doubts about it.

SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jun 30 2025, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Jun 29 2025, 06:00 PM)
The reason probably because Altel was awarded a huge chunk of 4G spectrums while the other 4 were given small amount of spectrums to launch their 4G. Then Telco has to pay rent to Altel and Redtone to rent their spectrum. Altel and Redtone just happily pocket the rental without doing anything … Therefore the explaination on the capacity and price/GB … because telco need to recuperate the investment they paid Altel and Redtone. Malaysia has 6-7 telcos while other countries 2-4 operators, so for same investment on the network, msia telcos unable to recover earning fast enough and not able to bring ARPU lower than other countries …

In summary, gov intereference and cryonism cause Msians the problem back in 4G.

Now in 5G, gov again attempt to interfere with telco businesses, and causing the DNB problem. We are now enroute to see poor 5G quality happening … the early fame for Msia 5G ending … DNB runs out of money and they in huge debt, yea Msians enjoy cheap 5G which they decide to turn off so they can use 4G instead cause quality turns bad, the only thing Msians get is 5G logo not the great service anymore … premature ejaculated on all the paid marketing and news reporting DNB pumping into all the adverising agencies and newsgroup to promote themselves - fastest speed globally, most consistent 5G paid advertisement … now water runs dry, you dont see those fancy ranking talking great Msia 5G anymore … no money no glory …
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Again that mistake was never learned.

Awarding a chunk of big frequency to some unproven company which is less known just to do rent seeking from desperate big players that really need those extra frequency bands for expansions.

It's bound to happen again with 5G with Umobile now monopolizing another 100MHz of bandwidth just for themselves.

If all telcos decide to boycott and choose to avoid renting from them what will happen? Are they financially strong enough to build a better and wider 4G network on their own without passing on the cost to consumers?


SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jun 30 2025, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Jun 30 2025, 02:53 PM)
There is a major difference. All telcos are not prohibited to build their own fibre infrastructure back then, TM building it with gov assistance but other telco can build their own to prevent monopoly if they want to. TIME and MAXIS have their own infrastructure. So is not considered as monopoly. Telcos made a strategic decision to rent from TM instead build their own.

5G is totally different ball game cause without spectrum, telco not allowed to build 5G infrastructure. CDB, UM and Maxis been announcing their infra is 5G ready waiting for spectrum award but MOF (not sure why they made the call) awarded to DNB prematurely without MCMC knowledge only later MCMC forced to accept. And telco not allowed to reuse their tech agnostic spectrum for 5G - forcing monopoly to use DNB only.
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Note the highlighted statement.

"Other telco can build their own infra if they want to prevent monopoly"

The BIG question now is why then DNB2 just awarded solely to UMobile alone?

Instead a better idea would be why not allow any telco willing to expand their own footprint beyond DNB1 if they wish to with their own equipment to cover exclusive in-building and blindspots coverage according to their customers market while DNB continues to serve the existing 82% with equal ownership rights.

Why allow just one telco the rights to do rent seeking from others just as where the TM HSBB idea failed miserably?
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jun 30 2025, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(YoungMan @ Jun 30 2025, 09:37 PM)
No one in the general public can answer that big question. In Malaysia, anything can happen. Rightly DNB2 should be jointly build by a few telcos.
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That's right.

The correct way was supposed to be that both DNB1 and DNB2 were supposed to be of 2 different consortium teams of telcos to promote healthy competition.

That way Consortium 1 vs Consortium 2 will compete fairly in different approach to network build-outs, Western vs China vendors, pricing and competitiveness.

Let's not get too deep into that. Just a suggestion for healthy competition.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jul 5 2025, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Jul 5 2025, 07:54 AM)
The second license was done as “open” tender , telco free to partner to submit but it didnt happen cause every telco wants it for their own in this case … CDB is largest telco, in theory Maxis shall partner with UMobile but since UM probably knows who will win before game begins so no reason to share cake with Maxis. Not to mention MOF the orchestrator of the failed DNB need CDB and Maxis to cover the bad debt and bail out DNB, CDB and Maxis both have stellar financial so best candidate as water fish. MCMC and MOF killed 2 birds with one stone - the pre-decided winner won, DNB found its bail out saviors …
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What is so open when the award went to a telco which is not even a Big 3 and a single company not a consortium tender?

Open means it must allow justification, queries and fair competition.

If every telco wants its own then the only fair approach is consortium based to create 2 different competing groups for healthy competition. Not solely award to just ONE telco which will even cause more complications in future such as rent seeking and speculations to get it sold off to interested buyers for debt reduction.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Jul 6 2025, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Jul 6 2025, 01:17 PM)
Because none of the telco are submitting proposal as konsortium and partnership, all want to do it alone. In telco world spectrum is like lifeline, without spectrum, the company is towards end of life. All tech innovation, differentiation and optimization based on how well they play the spectrum and make it more efficient. Malaysia 5G has been stagnant for 4 years as compared to other countries due to DNB and situation of telco not having control of the 5G technology … typical people only look at speed and 5G icon on the phone but true potential of 5G is beyond speed but not something achievable by DNB Konsortium.

Umobile 5G with their own infra and spectrum will eventually be the true 5G that put Msia on par with rest of the world …

Maxis and CDB financial will definitely be impacted to cover bailout DNB debt and their spent heavily to refresh the incompatible Ericsson 5G network to suit their own. End of an era for Maxis and CDB, three once most powerful telco in Msia screwed by the gov. Nett nett the winner of the DNB saga is Ericsson, they sold junk to Msia government that eventually too lousy to be used and not future proof with local telco, now gov asking Maxis and CDB to pay the bill …

One may argue telcos not doing good in rural area but MCMC made it mandatory for all telcos contributing USP funds (i think % of their revenue) for MCMC to decide build coverage for underserved/rural … wonder where the fund went to provide rural coverage cause no report how much was spent and where is the coverage is … one may ponder how the fund was spent if rural coverage still poor…

MCMC if back in 2018 award the 200Mhz spectrum to Maxis (50Mhz), CDB (75Mhz), Umobile (50Mhz), Unifi(12.5Mhz) and YES (12.5Mhz) to force them to work together to form konsortium of their choice will be much cleaner … note that none have enough spectrum to realize 5G full potential therefore they will have no choice to work together. And most importantly have the tech knowledge to select the best 5G solution compatible to their network.
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That is just plain excuse and failure to even provide proper requirements with their open tenders.

It would not have happened if the open tender requirement(s) only accepted tenders from consortiums among the industry telcos. Any telco who submit their tender alone will straight be rejected or disqualified.

How could that even be allowed to slip to pass? Very unprofessional and lame excuse.Or it was actually intended that way.

Anyways like many have said we prefer to ignore what is passed and move on. Our bed at home is more comfortable than the stone cold one. smile.gif

 

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