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 DNB and 2nd 5G network: needed or not?

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jasontanky
post Jul 3 2024, 12:01 PM

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Went to Lowyat to fix my phone. Surprisingly the 5G speed is way slower than 4G+ despite repeating conducted the 5G speedtest

We really need another 5G network in cities to free up some of the DNB capacity

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 12:02 PM
jasontanky
post Jul 3 2024, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(OfficiallyAhmad @ Jul 3 2024, 02:16 PM)
I'm bit suspicious with that 7Mbps upload. Does everyone have that 7Mbps upload problem as well? Because sometimes I have that problem.
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The upload can go beyond 100Mbps at certain locations
jasontanky
post Jul 3 2024, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(OfficiallyAhmad @ Jul 3 2024, 02:41 PM)
Theory A:
The area is getting congested which is happening because the lack of base station densification.

Theory B:
The device is only connected to DNB 700MHz low band which in theory can only receive 50Mbps - 100Mbps of speed which is what the Speedtest has shown.


This is just my assumption and theory. What happen is CelcomDigi have a bit of densitification than DNB in that area.

If we see the map below, CelcomDigi have 2 base stations available while DNB have only 1 base station and it is a bit far and blocked by the building nearby which make the signal fading.

Also using lower frequency of 1.8Ghz, the device can do carrier aggregation using the band available in CelcomDigi.

There is a high chance that the device is also not even using DNB 3.5GHz but instead use 700Mhz only which have the typical speed of 50Mbps - 100Mbps in 20MHz bandwidth range. If my theory is true, you pretty much get almost peak b28 frequency capability.

The only way to confirm this theory is true is someone having rooted Android phone with Network Signal Guru installed and see the data itself or you/someone can move closer to the base station and see if you get higher speed that reach beyond 100Mbps. Using this method we can confirm if the problem is theory A or theory B.

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Celcom base station

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DNB base station

The solution in my opinion is for DNB to introduce more basetation closer to lowyat so atleast the n78 frequency can go through the building or maybe just build DAS inside lowyat building.

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This is me just sharing brain dead oppinion. Since DNB is an MOCN. Getting 60Mbps speed in dense area is kinda impressive since it hold all of the telco capacity in 1 base station only.

Especially if we put in context that currently DNB is in "Phase 1" of just laying out the basic 5G coverage only and no densification is done yet.

Which in my opinion, already fill it roles greatly, now DNB just to put more base station and see how it goes.
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Your assumption was my assumption, but nope

It is connected to the n78, without n78 it was much worse and unbearable and no 5G DAS nor pRRU was deployed. Pretty much rely on outdoor coverage

The indoor coverage of CelcomDigi was integrated, and I got 3CA of B7+B7+B3. Total of 2x60MHz.

Maxis has also B1+B3+B7 3CA and getting around 200Mbps when inside the building.

5G congestion is really a thing now here in the metropolitan part of KL. Sometimes it could be quite unbearable during peak hour

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 04:21 PM
jasontanky
post Jul 3 2024, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(jasontanky @ Jul 3 2024, 04:14 PM)
Your assumption was my assumption, but nope

It is connected to the n78, without n78 it was much worse and unbearable and no 5G DAS nor pRRU was deployed. Pretty much rely on outdoor coverage

The indoor coverage of CelcomDigi was integrated, and I got 3CA of B7+B7+B3. Total of 2x60MHz.
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jasontanky
post Jul 3 2024, 04:36 PM

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There's 2 major problems on the DNB 5G network

1. Only prioritize on population coverage. There are certain areas despite lack of ''residential areas'' but are trunk roads but show close to 0 coverage if no residential areas close to it. For example, the north south highway.
2. Poor to no indoor coverage deployment

It reminded me of U Mobile during the early day (about 10 years ago). Pretty much no indoor coverage deployed. Even if there's 3G or 4G indoor, it basically just signal from outdoor penetrates through the building. The network become very congested during peak hour because there was no in-building coverage offloading the network from the outdoor antenna

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Jul 3 2024, 04:38 PM
jasontanky
post Nov 1 2024, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(YoungMan @ Nov 1 2024, 08:06 PM)
U Mobile to build Malaysia’s Second 5G network.
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ond-5g-network/
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My house still having very poor U Mobile 4G coverage now. Hopefully U Mobile will consider to add more sites than its existing infrastructure
jasontanky
post Nov 1 2024, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(Epic_winner091 @ Nov 1 2024, 08:47 PM)
Still n78 and B28 anchor for NSA you think?

Also ZTE is an interesting partner, at least they're not in the spotlight (for the wrong and right reasons) unlike Huawei.
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Either U Mobile kept a separate network. Or integrate its existing available 4G spectrum.

If U Mobile decided to only allow its subscribers to use its existing 4G spectrums/bands with 5G. They can easily be the fastest 5G network in Malaysia. Given that 5CA 4G + n78 100MHz can do wonders like even 3Gbps
jasontanky
post Nov 4 2024, 08:02 PM

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Fun fact, aside from indoor coverage, U Mobile B7 2600MHz coverage is way less prevalent than DNB n78 3500MHz.

Literally we have more 5G coverage than U Mobile B7. and not to say about how less common is the deployment of higher specs antenna compare to CelcomDigi and Maxis
jasontanky
post Apr 20 2025, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 20 2025, 03:46 PM)
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No lah. Afaik, DNB1 got 2X30MHz block 700MHz in 2020 whereas DNB2/U-Mobile got 2X20MHz block 700MHz in 2024, from MCMC =  if so, DNB1 will have a slight competitive edge over DNB2 wrt bandwidth capacity, ie 2.6Gbps vs 2.4Gbps
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as far as 700MHz assignment could go, both DNB and U Mobile now own 2x20MHz. Even the DSS n28 on DNB now reusing the same chunk of B28, which is why SA 5G is not that important in Malaysia.
jasontanky
post Apr 20 2025, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 20 2025, 04:31 PM)
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Maybe DNB1 is keeping a 2X10MHz block 700MHz in reserve for later deployment.
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Why is 5G SA not that important in Malaysia.? Note that later, MCMC can refarm to DNB1 & 2 some of the Low-Band 4G 800MHz and 900MHz for 5G SA, thus increasing their Low-Band  bandwidth capacity to about 1Gbps through Carrier Aggregation. 5G SA Low-Band has much better range and object penetration that Mid-Band/3.5GHz.
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You should know there's almost no UE in the market can do low band CA right, not even iPhone
jasontanky
post Apr 20 2025, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Apr 20 2025, 08:20 PM)
I think he meant Low Band and Low Band CA not supported. Thats why 700,800 and 900 CA are challenging.
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true, throwing bunch of text does not mean they are correct. So far only Sony can do low band with 4T4R, I'm not too sure about CA. But as far as I know, no commercial device support low band CA yet.

Which is why most telco in another country will only have 2 low band at max. One deploy 4G, another deploy 5G.
jasontanky
post Apr 21 2025, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 21 2025, 05:21 PM)
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DNB1 will soon be transitioning from 5G NSA to 5G SA  = it's Low-Band 2X20MHz block at 700MHz can be released for indoor coverage because 5G NSA Mid-Band at 3500MHz has very poor indoor coverage.  So, DNB1's RM16 billion investment over 10 years is inclusive of indoor coverage.
....... AFAIK, wrt inner-door coverage deep inside shopping malls, condos and their basement carparks, wireless repeaters are needed for both 4G and 5G, which is a different topic.

U Mobile's DNB2 will straightaway deploy as 5G SA, not 5G NSA, starting in H2 2025. So, there is no question of UM using LTE-CA with 5G NSA.
....... There is little difference between DNB1 refarming some 4G freq Bands from Maxis and CDB for 5G, and DNB2/U Mobile refarming some of its 4G freq Bands for 5G, eg both DNB1 & 2 requires approval from MCMC, ie the sunset date for 4G is determined by MCMC.

AFAIK, Ericsson/Nokia > Huawei, eg .......

Ericsson and Mobily test 5G 6 Component Carrier Aggregation, achieve 4.2 Gbps downlink throughput
- Ericsson partnered with Mobily and MediaTek to test six-component carrier aggregation (6CC) on a live 5G Standalone network.
- This test marks the first global 5G 6CC on a live 5G standalone network with 3 FDD and 3 TDD carriers. 
- The test utilized Ericsson Spectrum Sharing and 5G Carrier Aggregation software to achieve a downlink throughput of 4.2 Gbps.
PRESS RELEASE  FEB 12, 2025

https://www.ericsson.com/en/press-releases/...link-throughput

BELLEVUE, Wash.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Calling these record-breaking speeds “impressive” would be an understatement — we’re redefining what speed really means! Today, T-Mobile (NASDAQ: TMUS) announced a groundbreaking achievement, reaching record downlink speed using Nokia’s cutting edge 5G RAN equipment. The testing was conducted on both a commercial Samsung Galaxy S25 and a non-commercial mobile test device leveraging the newly announced Qualcomm X85 5G Modem-RF, all on America’s largest and fastest 5G network. ...
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2025...Breaking-Speeds - Mar 18, 2025 10:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Beyond Fast: T‑Mobile’s 5G Advanced 6-Carrier Aggregation Sets Record-Breaking Speeds
The Un-Carrier with Nokia and Qualcomm Push Downlink Speeds to 6.3 Gbps Using Standalone and Sub-6GHz Spectrum in its Latest Field Test

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Nah, anyone working in telecom industry knows Nokia inferiority. Huawei, ZTE, and Ericsson all have their own advantages. For telco perspective, they would not simply switch vendor because it would require dismantling their existing infrastructure. (ie. CelcomDigi merger, u will see a lot of Celcom keep sites in Klang Valley getting the Huawei RRU dismantled and replaced with ZTE RRU to keep their network management less problematic, same as Digi keep sites in the south)

Huawei is top notch in telecom industry btw, even till now, they are the only one with 3-beams antenna that would allow telco to continue using RRU+passive antenna setup without the need to invest for a more expensive AAU. Nokia on the other hand still struggling with basic 4T6S

Not to mention Chinese firms have a lot of good RRUs and AAUs. To be frank, in where free market is practice, even in EU, Huawei and ZTE are still often much preferred. Their solutions are simply affordable and also advance, can tackle for lots of environments

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Apr 21 2025, 05:37 PM
jasontanky
post Apr 21 2025, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 21 2025, 05:58 PM)
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So, why CCP China celcos use Ericsson 5G SA equipment.? .......

.... Major Customers who have launched Ericsson 5G Core

The following customers have launched an Ericsson 5G Core as of the writing of this article:

Rogers Canada
Singtel Singapore
China Mobile.
China Telecom.

BT network in the UK,
Telefónica Deutschland
SmarTone Hong Kong

Ericsson claims the world’s first in 5G Core and NR SA and as per GlobalData, is a leader in 5G Core. “The solution has gained significant market momentum, which currently includes 64+ 5G contracts, 33+ live Non-Standalone (NSA) deployments, and 100+ Standalone (SA) trials in the planning or execution stages.” ...

https://5g.security/open-ran/comparison-5g-core/ - A Comparison of 5G Core Network Architectures - 28 Feb 2021
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Remember, like nearly all high-tech companies in CCP China, Huawei has close ties with the CCP or is under the CCP's thumb = it's likely that Huawei 5G SA equipment and software have hidden backdoors to the CCP's spy/hack agencies. Hence, USA, Australia, Japan, some EU countries, etc, have banned Huawei, ZTE, etc from their 5G network.
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You should know core network is a completely different thing as we're discussing just now right. And yes, Ericsson is a huge player in 5G core network. But in terms of antenna, as those CCs and CAs stuff u mentioned, Ericsson is still lacking behind. Telco can use different antenna vendor with different core network vendor, just now u were discussing antenna vendor, and suddenly u switched to core network
jasontanky
post Apr 21 2025, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(ipohps3 @ Apr 21 2025, 06:16 PM)
i thought the reason they don't refarm the LTE spectrum for 5G is due to the restriction set by MCMC?
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Correct, if u noticed the recent antenna swap by CelcomDigi. Most of their equipments are actually 5G ready except no n78 AAU yet. Literally just need government to flip the finger for them to enable 5G. However, without n78, the 5G wouldn't be that much faster than 4G+, theoretically is only 10% more efficient.

This DNB stuff also make Maxis to invest less on their own network infrastructure, you can see a steep decline on CAPEX on their network infrastructure in recent quarters.
jasontanky
post Apr 21 2025, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 21 2025, 06:30 PM)
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Are CelcomDigi's 4G equipment 5G SA-Ready if got n78 AAU.?
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In fact, almost and if not all 5G RRUs and AAUs are SA ready. But to be frank, SA will barely bring in any major speed improvement as with you could not CA with 4G to get better speed.

China prioritizes on SA, first reason is for news and propaganda, second reason is their 4G antenna is usually quite cheap and low spec (their gov focus on number of sites deployed as a political tasks(政治任务)) so as 5G also part of political tasks, they'll just use 5G equipments from the very top to dirt cheap vendor like those fake spotlight antenna that China Mobile use. (Those locations that really needed 5G will still use big vendors like Huawei/ZTE/Ericsson, those less important one, just to make up for CoPA and also to cover residential deadzone will use cheap antenna with cheap RRU)

In a nutshell, China use cheaper equipments but build their antenna in very high density, so each antenna handle less user, another advantage is less discrepancy between cheap and good phone. You can see the "speed surge" of speedtest.net of China mobile network is a lor lesser compared to other countries after.Ookla decided to.only consider speedtest data tested from devices with modern chipsets

This post has been edited by jasontanky: Apr 21 2025, 06:44 PM
jasontanky
post Aug 17 2025, 12:04 AM

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DNB started to broadcast 5G SA network in Klang Valley wide
jasontanky
post Aug 18 2025, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(muhammadnajmi96 @ Aug 17 2025, 02:31 PM)
Any link?
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You can conduct network search, Chinese brands will show the RAT type, and if 5G appears means there is SA signal available
jasontanky
post Oct 2 2025, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(Yaowarat @ Oct 1 2025, 09:31 PM)
I tried AIS 5G in Bangkok , even in their lift i can get full bar signal with data as well which previously is totally no signal ( same lift ) . Wonder whats the difference with 5G in Malaysia.
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Malaysia DNB has no indoor 5G cells deployed. If your telco deployed indoor 5G cells near or inside the lift, you may get full bar. Just like how Sunway Pyramid 4G+ signal looks like
jasontanky
post Nov 6 2025, 08:03 AM

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DNB built about 8000 sites, even CelcomDigi alone has about 18000 sites; Maxis and U Mobile each has about 10000 sites respectively, Yes probably around 6000 sites? Unifi no idea, benefits of doubt, 7000 sites.

There are roughly 50000 4G sites deployed by local telco nationwide, with average spectrum bandwidth slightly more than DNB 5G capacity.

DNB needs to build at least double or triple of current site number just to catch up. So you know Malaysia 5G is gone for good. Thank you Muhyiddin...
jasontanky
post Nov 6 2025, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(jayko @ Nov 6 2025, 08:07 AM)
from day 1, the idea is to run NSA by making use of existing LTE since it is already built with so many sites. hence we get B28 anchor lor. no? SA, only selected place with good pop density in city make sense, perhaps that is all. forget about wide spread SA deployment if they don't want to run into deep red. hmm.gif
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Using Ericsson makes this impossible. Telco equipment is vendor lock. If you wanna transmit DNB signal and anchor it on your site, you are ought to replace all your current 4G RRUs from ZTE/Huawei to Ericsson. No one willing to do that.

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