Continue from https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110007901

But then is 1G journey to 4G is the same like 4G to 5G?

1G to 2G is created because of "past" encryption issue, not because of "future" usage.

2G to 3G happen because the need internet that is being used on desktop at that current time which is also a "past" issue not *future" usage.

3G to 4G happens because 3G doesn't provide enough speed which is also a "past" issue.

1G till 4G has been proven to be created to solve issue that actually exist and needed an upgrade. So I'm not sure where you get the sentiment that cellular technology is created to be over engineered as possible when the upgrade is actually needed at that current time.

Source: The 5G Myth: When Vision Decoupled from Reality by William Webb

Running cellular network is not like a startup. MNOs have to buy spectrum, have to put basetation. If the resources is not being used, the MNOs is pretty much bleeding money which is why you see nowadays, MNOs all around the world is merging because the cost of of running cellular network is expensive.

Which is why DNB is taking that burden off from the MNOs so MNOs can only focus on actually using that "over engineered" technology instead of wasting precious spectrum just because they can.

Understable and I agree with some of your perspective and I see your concern about option and services with DNB.

But then, if goverment can do intervention on TM fibre prices, why can't the goverment do the same to DNB when they literally have the golden share? Which I think is a bigger control than just being a GLC.

1) Your concern with the CEO is understable. For the cost of running the infrastructure itself, I think 4G brings many advantages to the MNOs since they can squeeze out the vendor but then why that savings is not translated to cheaper 4G plan?

In 2024, 4G plan that is being offered by Malaysia telco either have FUP or very low speed limit like 6 Mbps while in USA, Visible MVNO can offer high-speed unlimited plan for only 25usd.

2) In my opinion, for only 3 years in existence, DNB already over achieved what telco cannot done during 4G in same time duration.

What I mean is, in 3 years, 5G Malaysia already have a Positive Net Promoter Score which telco 4G fail to achieve even after a decade. 177.618% improvement is no small feat to achieve and why this gap happen? Only the MNOs know.

Green = 5G, Yellow = 4G

Positive NPS = More happy customers, Negative NPS = More unhappy customers

And for the port out option, ironically, isn't Maxis and CelcomDigi both have congestion issue? So what is even the difference with DNB? The MNOs have the money to increase 4G capacity but they are not doing it. Why?

Malaysia 5G speed is already among the highest on MEDIAN speed globally which again telco 4G fail to achieve. I don't see any news or data that show telco Malaysia get one of the highest speed GLOBALLY during 3 years of 4G existence in Malaysia during 4G era.

I'm not sure if TM attitude can be put the same on DNB when DNB literally bring Malaysia cellular network speed to the top Globally and Asia while TM fibre median speed is not even closed to Thailand and Singapore. The data themselves even show the gap of 4G and 5G improvement. So how does competition during 4G existence translate to better service when until now 4G still have problem even for basic problems like calling?

Based on the latest Ookla Global Index data recently. Malaysia increase their ranking by 2 position above and get into top 25 in cellular median speed. Based on my assumption is, this happen because of 5G speed contribution for the data.


https://www.speedtest.net/global-index/malaysia#mobile

If the theory of having more competition is good, the data will show easily that 4G will be having positive NPS while 5G will have negative NPS. But it seems the theory is not translating well and it seems not translating at all in Malaysia market and we can only wonder why?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 01:24 AM

If DNB self claim can somehow brings Malaysia to one of the top global 5G speeds, why can't it done be the same with 4G?

Does Maxis or Celcom has claim to be one of the fastest 4G network GLOBALLY? Because the last time I read the news, Malaysia 4G MEDIAN speed is barely fast in Southeast Asia itself.


https://www.lowyat.net/2022/266106/malaysia...load-speed-sea/

To self claim as the highest speed globally, the whole Malaysia need to have a high median speed which the data already prove.

Even in context of congestion, what is the speed of 4G compared to 5G during congestion time? Does 5G suddenly become slower than 4G?

Again same question by me. What is the speed of 4G Broadband compared to 5G Broadband in peak hours?

For your information, 100Mbps is a standard that is set by ITU-R. An organization under United Nations that proposed IMT-2020. 3GPP then use this standard to create the network that we called 5G nowadays.

Based on the picture below, 4G (IMT-Advanced) standard speed is only 10 Mbps which is ironically Malaysia 4G median speed like the table shown above.

Theoretical peak 5G speed is 20Gbps while for 4G is 1Gbps. That is a massive difference.


https://x.com/ITU/status/1039885559399936000

is that true with 4G?

In 4G era, maybe that is true. But now that is not true anymore though especially when we see how global MNOs are pricing their plan.

I don't see a major country that somehow have their 5G plan price is getting lesser with more MNOs in the country. What happen is they all increase the price for 5G plan.

Only in Malaysia where 5G somehow decrease the price of 5G plan.

USA:

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/expect-5g-o...-prices-in-2024

India:




Bonus: Here a short simple video about how 5G get standardized.


This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 03:54 AM

Because sadly that is the nature of 3.5Ghz band we used.

Currently, only Malaysia and Singapore that uses this frequency band for 5G in all area while other country in Southeast Asia only use 700Mhz band for their 5G with only some urban area in Thailand use 2.6GHz frequency band.

Which mean, they technically just "refarm" the low band. Which is why Thailand can get away with lower density base station than Malaysia and still get higher coverage because that is the advantages of 700Mhz.

But that 700MHz come at the cost of very low speed of around only 50 - 150 Mbps. That speed is like Malaysia urban area 4G speed only because ironically, Malaysia is indeed using Thailand 5G urban 2.6GHz band for 4G.


https://soyacincau.com/2019/07/09/mcmc-pi-7...ctrum-broadband

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 12:36 PM

We still on 5G NSA.

Exactly what I have in my mind, Malaysia 5G rollout get scrutinize heavily by Malaysians yet people forget how slow was the 4G rollout by telco itself.

And with 5G, why would people think these telco will improve. Even the data shows how inconsistent 4G experience is. Yet people are more confident in telco implementation eventhough there is no data that shows these telco do a great impressive job during 3G or 4G days.

During 4G days, the telco only know about putting speed cap, putting FUP, demand shit load of money for a simple 4G plan and thats it. Did Malaysia have one of the fastest 4G speed in Global? 4G Malaysia speed can't even breakthrough Southeast Asia standard.

If speed is subjective, then what about customer experience and network consistency of 4G network? Malaysia literally have negative NPS. Is that the quality of what the competition really supposed to bring?

In theory, having competition is good because that's how Thailand and Singapore improve yet in Malaysia, it seems all the telco are living in their own cartel and doesn't even bother improving or innovate during 4G days.

Note: this is just my opinion. No hard feelings.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 05:19 PM

I'm bit suspicious with that 7Mbps upload. Does everyone have that 7Mbps upload problem as well? Because sometimes I have that problem.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 02:16 PM

I see, I guess it just random problem with my Yes FT5G Unlimited Plan then

Because eventhough we only see the word 4G/5G, cellular technology have its own "update" system. That system is update using "Release". Release 15 is 5G, Release 18 is 5G Advanced. So the modem need to support the Release to use that Release feature.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 02:25 PM

Theory A:
The area is getting congested which is happening because the lack of base station densification.

Theory B:
The device is only connected to DNB 700MHz low band which in theory can only receive 50Mbps - 100Mbps of speed which is what the Speedtest has shown.

This is just my assumption and theory. What happen is CelcomDigi have a bit of densitification than DNB in that area.

If we see the map below, CelcomDigi have 2 base stations available while DNB have only 1 base station and it is a bit far and blocked by the building nearby which make the signal fading.

Also using lower frequency of 1.8Ghz, the device can do carrier aggregation using the band available in CelcomDigi.

There is a high chance that the device is also not even using DNB 3.5GHz but instead use 700Mhz only which have the typical speed of 50Mbps - 100Mbps in 20MHz bandwidth range. If my theory is true, you pretty much get almost peak b28 frequency capability.

The only way to confirm this theory is true is someone having rooted Android phone with Network Signal Guru installed and see the data itself or you/someone can move closer to the base station and see if you get higher speed that reach beyond 100Mbps. Using this method we can confirm if the problem is theory A or theory B.


Celcom base station


DNB base station

The solution in my opinion is for DNB to introduce more basetation closer to lowyat so atleast the n78 frequency can go through the building or maybe just build DAS inside lowyat building.

------

This is me just sharing brain dead oppinion. Since DNB is an MOCN. Getting 60Mbps speed in dense area is kinda impressive since it hold all of the telco capacity in 1 base station only.

Especially if we put in context that currently DNB is in "Phase 1" of just laying out the basic 5G coverage only and no densification is done yet.

Which in my opinion, already fill it roles greatly, now DNB just to put more base station and see how it goes.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 03:35 PM

Or maybe because 4G get offloaded as well, since the people there mostly have 5G phone, there is a chance that 4G capacity get a major breathing space which ironically makes it faster than 5G.

It seems Theory A is the problem. DNB really need to speed up rolling out their indoors 5G DAS. I'm not sure what building that have indoor 5G DAS in Malaysia currently because I never seen one.

And based on your experience, all that UE in peak time is really choking on that one base station which prove to be to much to handle.


Note:
I heard that the goverment parliament building have 5G DAS but I can't verify it myself.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 05:35 PM

5G Connectivity In Malaysia Reaches 81.7 %

The 5G coverage in populated areas across Malaysia has now reached 81.7%, with 7,114 5G sites established nationwide, the Dewan Rakyat was informed today (July 3).



Deputy Minister of Communications Teo Nie Ching stated that the current focus for constructing the 5G network is on urban areas with high economic activity. However, expansion into other areas, including rural regions, has begun and will continue periodically.

Teo’s remarks were in response to Hassan Saad (PN-Baling), who inquired about the government’s plan to build more substations to enhance high-speed internet access (5G) in rural areas.

The current 5G rollout is concentrated in urban areas with high economic activity.

However, the Nie Ching confirmed that efforts to extend coverage to rural and less populated regions have begun and will continue progressively.

She assured that expanding 5G infrastructure to rural areas remains a priority as part of the government’s commitment to improving internet access nationwide.

In response to a supplementary question from Dr. Mohammed Taufiq Johari (PH-Sungai Petani) about complaint channels for coverage issues, Teo mentioned that complaints can be filed through the Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) WhatsApp hotline at 0162206262 or via the Commission’s website.

For members of Parliament, Teo noted that complaints can also be lodged at the MCMC Complaint Counter available at the Parliament building.

Telcos restricted to single equity stake in second 5G network

KUALA LUMPUR: Mobile network operators (MNOs) involved in Malaysia’s second 5G network are restricted to holding equity in only one entity, deputy communications minister Teo Nie Ching said today.

She said this measure aims to foster healthy competition between the two entities in developing Malaysia’s 5G network infrastructure, ensuring high-quality services for the public.

Under the MNOs and Digital Nasional Bhd (DNB) agreement, she said each MNO must choose to invest in DNB (entity A) or that for the second 5G network (entity B).

“After the conclusion of the applicant information package (AIP) process, the successful tenderer will lead entity B, while unsuccessful bidders will remain in entity A.

“Those in entity B will sell their shares in DNB, ensuring the formation of two distinct entities,” she said during a question-and-answer session in the Dewan Rakyat today in response to Chong Zhemin (PH-Kampar) about whether the government would prohibit the same telco company from holding equity in both 5G network companies.

The Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission has been tasked with selecting a mobile network service provider to develop Malaysia’s second 5G network, commencing with the AIP process on July 1, 2024.

Four MNOs – YTL Power International, CelcomDigi, Maxis and U Mobile – had finalised a share subscription agreement with DNB and the Ministry of Finance Incorporated (MoF Inc) on Dec 1, 2023, paving the way for the transition to the 5G dual wholesale network model.

Regarding the distribution of DNB’s equity to telco companies, Teo said the shareholding structure would be adjusted to 30% for MoF Inc and 14% for each MNO, following Telekom Malaysia’s completion of its share subscription agreement with MoF Inc and DNB by Aug 21, 2024.

Malaysia 5G rollout model likely to be more robust - analyst
By Azanis Shahila Aman, S.Birruntha
July 2, 2024 @ 8:03am


KUALA LUMPUR: The adoption of mass-market 5G-powered services is expected to be rapid and robust, as telecommunication (telco) operators will have greater scope and incentive to keep consumer costs fairly low.

According to BMI Research head of technology and telecoms research Andrew Kitson, the Malaysian model – where existing telcos are obligated to take an investment position in the business, is likely to prove more robust.

In comparison, the high cost of building and commercialising competing 3G, 4G, and 5G networks in other markets has weighed on all industry stakeholders' bottom lines.

Kitson noted that profitability has been slow to materialise for many players, while some have not survived to maturity, and these issues were behind recent mergers and acquisitions (M&As) in many Asian markets, including Malaysia (CelcomDigi).

Nevertheless, he said that the Malaysian 5G model raises concerns about conflicting shareholder demands that might affect the pace or direction of deployment plans in specific regions.

Kitson also pointed out that the government's plan to press ahead with a second wholesale 5G network also presents some downside risks.

He said the main risk is a potential oversupply; a second 5G network may not be used to its full potential if the existing operators do not participate in that and try to compete with it for customers.

"It would be helpful if the government were to lay out in some detail the business model and strategy for the second 5G network—will the five telcos be required to invest in that? Will asset duplication occur? Will the second 5G network serve a specific type of customer?

"The ideal would be for the DNB-backed 5G network to serve basic mass-market connectivity needs and for the second network to serve specific enterprise, industry, or government needs that do not overlap with or cannibalise the business of the DNB network," he noted.

Last week Malaysia's four major mobile network operators—CelcomDigi Bhd through Infranation Sdn Bhd, Maxis Broadband Sdn Bhd, U Mobile Sdn Bhd, and YTL Communications Sdn Bhd through YTL Power International Bhd— acquired equity stakes in Digital Nasional Bhd (DNB).

The fifth telco, Telekom Malaysia Bhd ™ has until August 21, 2024, to get shareholder approval to complete its share subscription agreement (SSA).

Under the terms of the SSAs, the five telcos are to collectively acquire a 70 per cent equity stake in DNB, with each telco holding a 14 per cent stake.

The government, represented by Ministry of Finance Incorporated (MoF Inc.), will retain a 30 per cent stake and a special share in DNB for a designated period.

Kitson said that under the DNB scheme, operators will not be able to differentiate in terms of quality of network or coverage.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 3 2024, 11:32 PM

GSA: 5G Experience June 2024




Ironically with existence of DNB, telco in Malaysia can "claim" to have one of the fastest 5G speed in the world. Yet seeing the 4G data, our telco is not even close to the top 4 of fastest 4G telco.

So why 4G with more competitive environment fail to gain ranking or speed? I thought competition should driven telco to be better yet it's DNB that carrying telco name to the top of the world.







This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 14 2024, 01:41 PM

But I doubt the 2nd network will transition to 5G SA instantly when they are release since 5G SA is about cost issue and the cost to setup standalone network is very expensive. There is a reason why only minority of MNOs have standalone 5G network in the whole world.

MNOs itself is not a charity. They won't bother about investing in SA since they themselves doesn't know how to take advantage of the standalone network other than the talking about nonexistent problem.


https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insigh...ne-yoy-in-2023/

Speed doesn't reflect real 5G usage but it certainly show the incompetence of Malaysia telco 4G network before.

What im trying to say is why DNB can somehow have higher speed globally in 3 years of 5G implementation? Does the telco themselves compete with others 4G telco globally when 4G is released?

I mean during that time also Malaysia lacks 4G indoor coverage yet Malaysia telco still can't compete when in theory, competition between telco should bring Malaysia name to the top right?