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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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TSunknown warrior
post Sep 26 2019, 03:45 PM, updated 4y ago

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Welcome Fellow Christians.

We are here to fellowship, to reach out, to encourage, to strengthen one another and to be a Witness unto this lost world of the goodness and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
FAQ
Few simple RULES to follow in our fellowship thread.

1. No flaming/troll post please. Let's keep this fellowship thread clean, positive and encouraging, as the purpose is more for believers of Christ.
2. Do not argue about other religions please. People of other Faith are welcome to ask and enquire genuine questions or out of curiosity about Christianity.
3. What's discussed in here, stays in here.
4. Do not spark an argument or to cause excessive argument, both are not allowed, your post will be deleted and report to Admin of Forum
5. Do not judge any Christians in here, do not insult them or threatened them with hell or perdition or whatever along that line.


Previous Threads
V14
V14
v13
v13
v12
v12
V11
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3855898
V10
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3599570
V09
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3485130
V08
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3393815
V07
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3197598
V06
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...&t=2621686&st=0
V05
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395
V04
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/801729
Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/
http://www.guitar4christ.com
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV
http://www.god.tv/

Good TV
http://www.goodtv.tv/
Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/


Baptist sermon :
https://pbc.my/sermons-2/


Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm

Dear Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor.
LYN Christ Followers

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Christian BookShop
1) Salvation Bookstore - PJ SS2, Summit USJ
2) Glad Sound - PJ SS2, Taipan USJ 10, One Utama
3) Evangel - PJ SS2
4) MPH Bookstore
5) Canaanland Sdn Bhd: - http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
6) Discovery House Publishers :https://dhdmalaysia.com/

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 23 2019, 11:18 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 26 2019, 03:49 PM

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Pehkay
prophetjul
alexkos
thomasthai
Roman Catholic

TSunknown warrior
post Sep 26 2019, 03:50 PM

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yaokb
De_Luffy

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 26 2019, 03:56 PM
alexkos
post Sep 26 2019, 04:11 PM

Look at all my stars!!
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sui, tered ke-15

ok, let's grow together

Q1. What is the chief end of man?
Tips: Don't google
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 26 2019, 04:22 PM

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Dear Friend, it's been awhile and I just want to obey what the Lord has deposited to me during my communion with Him,

The Lord gave me this correlation
QUOTE
Hebrews 13:1-2
1 Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. 2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.


And

QUOTE
Matthew 25: 37-40
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40 And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’


Angels as we know represents God.

As Christians I think we need to display kindness and hospitality to others...and it is not to say those strangers are God's angels themselves but they are there to witness your kind act towards another fellow human being.

God Bless.
Roman Catholic
post Sep 27 2019, 07:13 AM

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Maybe the display of kindness and hospitality isn't exactly the what we should be looking at, but rather love one another, as the Lord loves us.

What I can affirmed is that when a deed is done in love & with love, it is far more effective than all the words I can even think of and best of all, a real Christian, even a pagan literally, would immediately know and feel God's love.
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 27 2019, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Sep 27 2019, 07:13 AM)
Maybe the display of kindness and hospitality isn't exactly the what we should be looking at, but rather love one another, as the Lord loves us.

What I can affirmed is that when a deed is done in love & with love, it is far more effective than all the words I can even think of and best of all, a real Christian, even a pagan literally, would immediately know and feel God's love.
*
The point I was trying to make is that we have forgotten God has invisible angels witnessing the help we give to others.

These angels are invisible from our eyes, hence too often we forgot God is watching the good deeds we dispense to others.

Hence Matthew 25:37-40....people saying when did we see you hungry?


* Another point is that, we should not discredit people who are strangers, people of different faith, culture or background.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 27 2019, 02:03 PM
Roman Catholic
post Sep 27 2019, 10:46 AM

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Yes Unknown Warrior you are right, that is what is peppered throughout Scriptures about angels and I do understand. Just that I prefer the other route that is more direct and simpler that's all. 😊

It is really crazy sometimes, my love for others can be so strong that I only want the best for them. The strangest thing is, I find that generally the pagans are more receptive than compared to even my own brethren. Scripture is proven to be right, a prophet is never welcome in his own home.
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 27 2019, 11:01 AM

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anyone who wonder how Aramaic sound, watch this video

It's modern Aramaic though not the old Aramaic which Jesus spoke in.



alexkos
post Sep 27 2019, 02:34 PM

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May i know which part of scripture endorses prayer to Mary?
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 27 2019, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Sep 27 2019, 02:34 PM)
May i know which part of scripture endorses prayer to Mary?
*
haih bro...don't start lah.

later Yeeck masuk.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 27 2019, 03:28 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Sep 28 2019, 11:28 AM

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Good sermon on description on Heaven and Hell.
pehkay
post Sep 29 2019, 10:22 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Sep 26 2019, 04:11 PM)
sui, tered ke-15

ok, let's grow together

Q1. What is the chief end of man?
Tips: Don't google
*
Theosis
SUSlurkingaround
post Sep 29 2019, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Sep 26 2019, 04:22 PM)
Dear Friend, it's been awhile and I just want to obey what the Lord has deposited to me during my communion with Him,

The Lord gave me this correlation
And
Angels as we know represents God.

As Christians I think we need to display kindness and hospitality to others...and it is not to say those strangers are God's angels themselves but they are there to witness your kind act towards another fellow human being.

God Bless.
*
.
MATTHEW.25:40 specifically referred to providing for the brothers of Jesus Christ = His apostles and disciples, not to just any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry. IOW, Christians have been commanded by God/Jesus to support their pastors, missionaries and Church, eg by tithing about 3% or more.
yaokb
post Sep 30 2019, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Sep 29 2019, 05:52 PM)
.
MATTHEW.25:40 specifically referred to providing for the brothers of Jesus Christ = His apostles and disciples, not to just any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry. IOW, Christians have been commanded by God/Jesus to support their pastors, missionaries and Church, eg by tithing about 3% or more.
*
I have to respectfully disagree with that observation for the following reasons.

a) Whenever we interpret scripture we have to interpret it in context, not only within the context of the passage but the overall context of scripture as a whole.
Let us examine what the nature of God is like.

Matt 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


b) This is further reinforced by the parable of the sower.

Matt 13

1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

The sower is scattering seed EVERYWHERE. not only the good soil.

Although Jesus explains that the seed is the word of the kingdom, do we only spread the word through talking alone? Do we not also do it by good deeds ?



c) By limiting our assistance to only fellow believers are we any better that others who openly campaign for support of only their particular group? Does it resonate with the overall teaching of the scriptures? If not, then we have to re-examine the observation.

SUSlurkingaround
post Sep 30 2019, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Sep 30 2019, 11:24 AM)
I have to respectfully disagree with that observation for the following reasons.

a) Whenever we interpret scripture we have to interpret it in context, not only within the context  of the passage but the overall context of scripture as a whole.
Let us examine what the nature of God is like.

Matt 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
b) This is further reinforced by the parable of the sower.

Matt 13

1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

The sower is scattering seed EVERYWHERE. not only the good soil.

Although Jesus explains that the seed is the word of the kingdom, do we only spread the word through talking alone? Do we not also do it by good deeds ?
c) By limiting our assistance to only fellow believers are we any better that others who openly campaign for support of only their particular group? Does it resonate with the overall teaching of the scriptures? If not, then we have to re-examine the observation.
*
.
JOHN. 13:34-35 (NKJV) = 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
_______

The Lord/God Jesus Christ commanded His apostles and disciples to love one another, not just love any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry.

Being kind and helpful to non-disciples/non-Christians or others is different from the above commandment to love one another.

Seems, there are many foolish Christians/disciples who go around supporting and helping strangers or every Tom, Dikk and Harry and really loving their enemies. .......

GALATIANS. 6:10 =. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
yaokb
post Sep 30 2019, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Sep 30 2019, 05:59 PM)
.
JOHN. 13:34-35 (NKJV)  = 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
_______

The Lord/God Jesus Christ commanded His apostles and disciples to love one another, not just love any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry.

Being kind and helpful to non-disciples/non-Christians or others is different from the above commandment to love one another.

Seems, there are many foolish Christians/disciples who go around supporting and helping strangers or every Tom, Dikk and Harry and really loving their enemies. .......

GALATIANS. 6:10 =. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
*
Have you considered John 3 :16?

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

And the story of the good Samaritian

Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”



If you do not know, Jews and Samaritans have no dealings with one another because they are traditionally enemies.
Jesus purposely used a Samaritan as the good guy compared to the Priest and the Levite who left the injured Jew by the roadside. The Priests were like the pastors of the day and the Levites like the church workers.

What do you think Jesus was trying to convey?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 12:03 AM

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JOHN.3:18-19 (NKJV) = .18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

ROMANS.9:13 = 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

ROMANS.12:20 = 20 Therefore

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

HOSEA.9:15-17 =
15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.

16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb.”

17 My God will cast them away,
Because they did not obey Him;
And they shall be wanderers among the nations.

PROVERBS.6:16-19 =
16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
_______

1TIMOTHY.5:8 = 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 1 2019, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Sep 29 2019, 05:52 PM)
.
MATTHEW.25:40 specifically referred to providing for the brothers of Jesus Christ = His apostles and disciples, not to just any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry. IOW, Christians have been commanded by God/Jesus to support their pastors, missionaries and Church, eg by tithing about 3% or more.
*
I'm curious, where did you get the 3% from? I mean which verse?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 09:34 AM)
I'm curious, where did you get the 3% from? I mean which verse?
*
.

The Old Testament law of tithing 10% was towards the running of a national Jewish theocratic government headed by God's prophets/judges, starting with Moses and Joshua in 1500BC. Today, the Church is not the national government = the Church does not need a tithe of 10% to run. So, a tithe of about 3% from members should be enough to support their Church/pastor/missionary.

Bear in mind that Christians have been commanded by Jesus Christ to also pay taxes(= about 10%) to Caesar or to their national government, as long as it is not too burdensome or excessive - MATTHEW.22:21, ROMANS.13.

Requiring Christians to pay a tithe of 10% to their Church is over-burdening them(cf: ACTS.15:28-29) since they have to also pay taxes to their government - 10% + 10% = 20%. False prophets/pastors/Church who teach tithing 10% as a must, are showing greed in their hearts - MATTHEW.7:15-20. Did Paul go around demanding a tithe of 10% from his Gentile converts.?
....... Remember, the corrupt and non-biblical selling of papal indulgences that depleted other's national economies to benefit only the Roman/Italian economy resulted in the Protestant Reformation that was led by the German Catholic professor monk, Martin Luther. Germany, England, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, etc then became Protestant nations.
.
.

Let's say a Church has 100 members earning an average salary of RM3,000 per month. A 10% tithe imposed on the 100 members = RM30,000 per month. ... A 3% tithe = RM9,000 per month. A 5% tithe = RM15,000 per month.
....... Multiply that by 10 for a mega-Church that has 1,000 members. Mega-Churches are common in Christian-majority nations like USA, Western Europe and Australasia.
....... More tithes of above 3% may be needed for Christian-minority nations.

So, a tithe of 10% is mostly unneeded, excessive and over-burdening, especially in Christian-majority nations. Hence, a tithe of about 3% should ne the norm.

As per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25 and ROMANS.14:1-4, many burdensome OT laws/commandments do not apply to Gentile Christians, eg circumcision and kosher/clean foods. Similarly for tithing 10%. Non-burdensome laws/commandments still apply, especially morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments = those who keep them will be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth and won't risk losing faith/salvation through lawlessness - MATTHEW.7:21-23, 1COR.5:1-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIM.4:1.

God loves His people = He does not over-burden them, and He loves a cheerful giver/tither. .......

MATTHEW.11:30 = For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Good day.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 1 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 1 2019, 01:29 PM)
.

The Old Testament law of tithing 10% was towards the running of a national Jewish theocratic government headed by God's prophets/judges, starting with Moses and Joshua in 1500BC. Today, the Church is not the national government = the Church does not need a tithe of 10% to run. So, a tithe of about 3% from members should be enough to support their Church/pastor/missionary.

Bear in mind that Christians have been commanded by Jesus Christ to also pay taxes(= about 10%) to Caesar or to their national government, as long as it is not too burdensome or excessive - MATTHEW.22:21, ROMANS.13.

Requiring Christians to pay a tithe of 10% to their Church is over-burdening them(cf: ACTS.15:28-29) since they have to also pay taxes to their government - 10% + 10% = 20%. False prophets/pastors/Church who teach tithing 10% as a must, are showing greed in their hearts - MATTHEW.7:15-20. Did Paul go around demanding a tithe of 10% from his Gentile converts.?
....... Remember, the corrupt and non-biblical selling of papal indulgences that depleted other's national economies to benefit only the Roman/Italian economy resulted in the Protestant Reformation that was led by the German Catholic professor monk, Martin Luther. Germany, England, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, etc then became Protestant nations.
.
.

Let's say a Church has 100 members earning an average salary of RM3,000 per month. A 10% tithe imposed on the 100 members = RM30,000 per month. ... A 3% tithe = RM9,000 per month. A 5% tithe = RM15,000 per month.
....... Multiply that by 10 for a mega-Church that has 1,000 members. Mega-Churches are common in Christian-majority nations like USA, Western Europe and Australasia.
....... More tithes of above 3% may be needed for Christian-minority nations.

So, a tithe of 10% is mostly unneeded, excessive and over-burdening, especially in Christian-majority nations. Hence, a tithe of about 3% should ne the norm.

As per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25 and ROMANS.14:1-4, many burdensome OT laws/commandments do not apply to Gentile Christians, eg circumcision and kosher/clean foods. Similarly for tithing 10%. Non-burdensome laws/commandments still apply, especially morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments = those who keep them will be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth and won't risk losing faith/salvation through lawlessness - MATTHEW.7:21-23, 1COR.5:1-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIM.4:1.

God loves His people = He does not over-burden them, and He loves a cheerful giver/tither. .......

MATTHEW.11:30 = For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Good day.
*
Okay and I want to ask you another question. What do you think of Trinity?







SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 02:07 PM)
Okay and I want to ask you another question. What do you think of Trinity?
*
.
Why don't you answer your own question first; what do you think of Trinity.?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 1 2019, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 1 2019, 04:04 PM)
.
Why don't you answer your own question first; what do you think of Trinity.?
*
No problem. I believe in the Holy Trinity, there's God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, they are one and the same God yet 3 distinct persons.

Now your turn. What do you think of Trinity?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 2 2019, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 04:06 PM)
No problem. I believe in the Holy Trinity, there's God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, they are one and the same God yet 3 distinct persons.

Now your turn. What do you think of Trinity?
*
.
About the same as yours.

In what ways are/is the 3 Persons of God distinct or different.?
.
.

Fyi, Bible verses against OSAS, ie the risk or possibility of Christians losing faith = losing salvation, eg through lawlessness or the willful breaking of God's commandments/laws. .......

REV.14:12 (NKJV) = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

2TIM.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 2 2019, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 2 2019, 10:26 AM)
.
About the same as yours.

In what ways are/is the 3 Persons of God distinct or different.?
.
.

Fyi, Bible verses against OSAS, ie the risk or possibility of Christians losing faith = losing salvation, eg through lawlessness or the willful breaking of God's commandments/laws. .......

REV.14:12 (NKJV) = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

2TIM.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
*
Why don't you answer your question first?

In what ways are/is the 3 Persons of God distinct or different.?

Why are you suddenly talking about OSAS out of the sudden?
Roman Catholic
post Oct 2 2019, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Sep 30 2019, 05:59 PM)
.
JOHN. 13:34-35 (NKJV)  = 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
_______

The Lord/God Jesus Christ commanded His apostles and disciples to love one another, not just love any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry.

Being kind and helpful to non-disciples/non-Christians or others is different from the above commandment to love one another.

Seems, there are many foolish Christians/disciples who go around supporting and helping strangers or every Tom, Dikk and Harry and really loving their enemies. .......

GALATIANS. 6:10 =. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
*
I would be an idiot to label any fellow brethren foolish for the works that brethren has been entrusted to do by our Lord.

Yes, without a doubt we must love our Christian brethren first but Scriptures also says a prophet is never welcomed in his own home. How I wish to love all of my brethren but since this is not allowed within my own church, now I have found that loving non-Christians is far more easier and the non-Christians are much more receptive compared to those from my own community. Thus scripture is proven to be right, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

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post Oct 2 2019, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 01:03 PM)
I would be an idiot to label any fellow brethren foolish for the works that brethren has been entrusted to do by our Lord.

Yes, without a doubt we must love our Christian brethren first but Scriptures also says a prophet is never welcomed in his own home. How I wish to love all of my brethren but since this is not allowed within my own church, now I have found that loving non-Christians is far more easier and the non-Christians are much more receptive compared to those from my own community. Thus scripture is proven to be right, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.
*
I want this place to be a place of Christian fellowship regardless of different denomination.




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post Oct 2 2019, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 01:03 PM)
I would be an idiot to label any fellow brethren foolish for the works that brethren has been entrusted to do by our Lord.

Yes, without a doubt we must love our Christian brethren first but Scriptures also says a prophet is never welcomed in his own home. How I wish to love all of my brethren but since this is not allowed within my own church, now I have found that loving non-Christians is far more easier and the non-Christians are much more receptive compared to those from my own community. Thus scripture is proven to be right, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.
*
The problem is, some Christians may have a wrong understanding of the works that they have been entrusted to do by our Lord/God Jesus Christ, eg are the Christian brethren to truly love their enemies like the ISIS terrorists and US liberals.? (cf: ROMANS.12:40 & 9:13)

Prophets, by historical biblical definition, hear audibly and directly from God, eg Moses, Samuel, Nathan, John, Peter and Paul. I do not think there are any such prophets today, even though a few may claim to be(= false prophets.?).. So, your problem about a God's prophet (yourself.?) is never welcomed in his own home Church is spurious.
....... In the Bible, God's prophets were not welcomed by the sinning/evil-doing/law-breaking Jewish Temple and Kings. That was why God sent the Jewish nation of Judah and Israel into foreign captivity in 800BC. It's misinterpretation of the Bible to apply this historical event to today's Church.

_______

HEBREWS.8:10-13 (NKJV) = . 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:04 PM
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post Oct 2 2019, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 2 2019, 01:59 PM)
I want this place to be a place of Christian fellowship regardless of different denomination.
*
Yup I desire the same thing within my own Catholic community too, just like what you've written.

When I see observe the Muslim community how they look out for one another irregardlesss whether they are right or wrong, its their bonding as a community, that I find lacking in my own community. 😔 I am not referring to members in this forum. 😊

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 2 2019, 03:28 PM
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post Oct 2 2019, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 2 2019, 02:59 PM)
.
The problem is, some Christians may have a wrong understanding of the works that they have been entrusted to do by our Lord/God Jesus Christ, eg are the Christian brethren to truly love their enemies like the ISIS terrorists and US liberals.? (cf: ROMANS.12:40 & 9:13)

Prophets, by historical biblical definition, hear audibly and directly from God, eg Moses, Samuel, Nathan, John, Peter and Paul. I do not think there are any such prophets today, even though a few may claim to be(= false prophets.?).. So, your problem about a God's prophet (yourself.?) is never welcomed in his own home Church is spurious.
....... In the Bible, God's prophets were not welcomed by the sinning/evil-doing/law-breaking Jewish Temple and Kings. That was why God sent the Jewish nation of Judah and Israel into foreign captivity in 800BC. It's misinterpretation of the Bible to apply this historical event to today's Church.
_______

HEBREWS.8:10-13 (NKJV) = . 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
*
I had to look up for the meaning of spurious.

Ok tell me when Scripture says about being born again is that spurious too ?

I think the real question in our lifetime that we have to ask of ourselves is that, do we want to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect or how does one even fulfill the Greatest Commandment first.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 2 2019, 03:32 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 2 2019, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 03:18 PM)
Yup I desire the same thing within my own Catholic community too, just like what you've written.

When I see observe the Muslim community how they look out for one another irregardlesss whether they are right or wrong, its their bonding as a community, that I find lacking in my own community. 😔 I am not referring to members in this forum. 😊
*
Every community have their own sets of problem, regardless, don't get swayed by that.

you do your part and be loving to your neighbors or strangers. icon_rolleyes.gif
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post Oct 2 2019, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 2 2019, 04:04 PM)
Every community have their own sets of problem, regardless, don't get swayed by that.

you do your part and be loving to your neighbors or strangers. icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Very true every community has their own set of problems and you are right, that will not stop me from doing what I must do or rather all of us, as Christians must do. It is not that we need nor seek praises for such works from anyone, if ever there were such praises, then such praises must be for our heavenly Father only, for those are truly His Works. Scriptures is proven to be true, how happy are those who believes. Praise be to God.
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post Oct 2 2019, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 03:23 PM)
I had to look up for the meaning of spurious.

Ok tell me when Scripture says about being born again is that spurious too ?

I think the real question in our lifetime that we have to ask of ourselves is that, do we want to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect or how does one even fulfill the Greatest Commandment first.
*
.
MATTHEW.5: (NKJV) =

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. .......
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______

Notice that the gist of the above 2 passages are the same. So, if Christians were commanded by Jesus/God to love their enemies, they were also commanded to pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs, so as to save themselves from hell. Does this jive or sound wise.?

In truth, these "commandments" were directed at the Jews and Pharisees who had stubbornly refused to be saved by accepting Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah/Christ, ie they would have to save themselves by obeying the listed "commandments" at MATTHEW.5:21-48, ... = also the "commandment" to turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, lend to all who ask or do other foolish works.

In addition, doesn't "love your enemy" destroy the Law's "hate your enemy".? - cf: MATTHEW.5:17-20 stated that Jesus Christ did not come down to earth from heaven to destroy the Law. Also, .......


ROMANS.12:40 = . 20 Therefore

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Does this verse sound like loving your enemy.?

-------

MATT.19:16-23 = Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Perfection in Man can only be achieved by following Jesus Christ = believing in Him = saved from hell. Perfect works alone can not save anyone from hell.

Good day


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:10 PM
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post Oct 3 2019, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Sep 29 2019, 05:52 PM)
.
MATTHEW.25:40 specifically referred to providing for the brothers of Jesus Christ = His apostles and disciples, not to just any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry. IOW, Christians have been commanded by God/Jesus to support their pastors, missionaries and Church, eg by tithing about 3% or more.
*
I have to disagree. The word brother in Mathew 25:40 is the word "adelphos " in the Greek which means a fellow believer, it's not referring to only specifically Christ apostles and disciples during his days on earth.

Why? Because Matthew 25 is a parable denoting the time after Christ come to take his people in the rapture, that will be a different dispensation, no more on Salvation by Grace through Faith. Read verse 1 of Matthew 25, how it is phrased. Besides if good works is the basis for Salvation, then Ephesians 2:8 goes out of the window.

Also your this 3% is something you self decided and it's not based on God's word. The phrase one tenth (1/10) is being use all over in the Old Testament as well as the new Testament. The purpose of tithing though from the natural perspective is to support the church or pastor but that is never the reason or the point to tithe. You tithe unto God as an act of reverent worship and because you believe Christ is alive. Read Hebrews 7:8. On the matter blessings that comes from tithing, that I leave it to individual believers because not everyone is able to believe this, that is fine by me, not going to go into it.

I would be careful not to self decide anything on God's word. I'm sorry but tithing is always a 10% never a 3, 4 or whatever figure.


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post Oct 3 2019, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 3 2019, 08:57 AM)
Also your this 3% is something you self decided and it's not based on God's word. ....

The phrase one tenth (1/10) is being use all over in the Old Testament as well as the new Testament. ....

I would be careful not to self decide anything on God's word. I'm sorry but tithing is always a 10% never a 3, 4 or whatever figure.
*
ROMANS.14:1-13 (NKJV) = The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
_______ _______

Where does the New Testament state that Christians must tithe 10% to their Church.?

As per ACTS.15:19-29 and GALATIANS.5:1-15, Gentile Christians have been liberated from God's burdensome laws. So, wrt burdensome or non-essential laws, Gentile Christians are at liberty to self-decide to obey or not to obey them, eg circumcision, kosher/clean foods, Sabbath Sunday, etc. .......


In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
.

QUOTE
I have to disagree. The word brother in Mathew 25:40 is the word "adelphos " in the Greek which means a fellow believer, it's not referring to only specifically Christ apostles and disciples during his days on earth.
.

Why? Because Matthew 25 is a parable denoting the time after Christ come to take his people in the rapture, that will be a different dispensation, no more on Salvation by Grace through Faith. Read verse 1 of Matthew 25, how it is phrased. Besides if good works is the basis for Salvation, then Ephesians 2:8 goes out of the window.

So, you do admit at least that the passage applied to supporting fellow believers and not to any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry, especially the enemies of believers.

Notice that it was the righteous and saved sheep who were asking Jesus Christ those questions. So, it would be odd that they did not know that He was referring to them as those being fed, given drink, shelter, clothed, visited in prison and when sick.
...... At MATTHEW.24 & 25, Jesus was speaking to His apostles/disciples. So, I believe He was referring to His apostles/disciples when He said "My brethren", as alluded by .......


MATTHEW.10:9-15 = . 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:11 PM
Roman Catholic
post Oct 3 2019, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 2 2019, 11:21 PM)
.
MATTHEW.5: (NKJV) =

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. .......
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______

[i]Notice that the gist of the above 2 passages are the same. So, if Christians were commanded by Jesus/God to love their enemies, they were also commanded to pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs, so as to save themselves from hell. Does this jive or sound
*
The 2 passages are the SAME ? Oh my goodness, seriously ? You are no Christian aren't you ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 3 2019, 06:12 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 3 2019, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 3 2019, 06:10 PM)
The 2 passages are the SAME ? Oh my goodness, seriously ? You are no Christian aren't you ?
*
I did not say the 2 passages are the same. I said the gist of the 2 passages are the same. You are misquoting my words. Are you falsely accusing me of not being a Christian.?
.

Not just 2 passages but the
gist of 6 passages are the same. .......
.

MATTHEW.5:21-48 (NKJV) =

Murder Begins in the Heart

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. ...
.

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ...
.

Marriage Is Sacred and Binding

31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
.

Jesus Forbids Oaths

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. ...
.

Go the Second Mile

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. ...
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______ _______

So, can Christians be without any anger with his brother or neighbor.? Shall they pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs.? Shall Christians not divorce for any reason except for sexual immorality.? Can Christians not swear any oath at all.? Shall they turn the other cheek, go the extra mile and lend to all who ask when dealing with evil persons.? Shall Christians love their enemies.?

All these perfect works of self-effort cannot save the person from hell. Only faith/belief in Jesus Christ can save the person from hell = Christians are saved from hell = they do not have to do these perfect works to be saved from hell. Only those who reject Jesus Christ have to do them, in order to be saved from hell by their own works of self-effort.

Also, all these perfect works are quite impossible to do. Can you pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.? If you can, you will be without any immoral sexual lust since you can no longer see a sexually desirable woman and no longer be able to carry out an illicit sexual affair. If you can, the Lord/God Jesus Christ may just grant you a favored position in heaven seated next to Him, a much sought after position and reward(= MARK.10:35-45).

Once saved by faith, the mostly formerly lawless Gentile Christians should go learn the non-burdensome or essential parts of the Law, in order to be empowered by the Holy Spirit of God to do the easy and light works of God, ie keep His commandments/laws. .......


REV.14:12 =12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
.
.
.
P S - It is inherited Adam's Original Sin that will be sending everyone to hell when they die = they are all born as original sinners and need a Saviour/Christ/Messiah(ROMANS.5:12). This Sin causes everyone to occasionally have involuntary immoral/sinful thoughts and desires in their hearts like immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc. The spiritual source of this Sin-in-thoughts is Satan. If they are not careful this Sin-in-thought may develop into voluntary sins-in-deeds like murder, adultery, stealing, cheating/lying, etc = such sinners/law-breakers will be cursed by God with a sad and short life on earth.
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post Oct 3 2019, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 3 2019, 09:24 PM)
I did not say the 2 passages are the same.  I said the gist of the 2 passages are the same. You are misquoting my words. Are you falsely accusing me of not being a Christian.?
.

Not just 2 passages but the
gist of 6 passages are the same. .......
.

MATTHEW.5:21-48 (NKJV) =

Murder Begins in the Heart

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. ...
.

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ...
.

Marriage Is Sacred and Binding

31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
.

Jesus Forbids Oaths

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. ...
.

Go the Second Mile

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. ...
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______ _______

So, can Christians be without any anger with his brother or neighbor.? Shall they pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs.? Shall Christians not divorce for any reason except for sexual immorality.? Can Christians not swear any oath at all.? Shall they turn the other cheek, go the extra mile and lend to all who ask when dealing with evil persons.? Shall Christians love their enemies.?

All these perfect works of self-effort cannot save the person from hell. Only faith/belief in Jesus Christ can save the person from hell = Christians are saved from hell = they do not have to do these perfect works to be saved from hell. Only those who reject Jesus Christ have to do them, in order to be saved from hell by their own works of self-effort.

Also, all these perfect works are quite impossible to do. Can you pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.? If you can, you will be without any immoral sexual lust since you can no longer see a sexually desirable woman and  no longer be able to carry out an illicit sexual affair. If you can, the Lord/God Jesus Christ may just grant you a favored position in heaven seated next to Him, a much sought after position and reward(= MARK.10:35-45).

Once saved by faith, the mostly formerly lawless Gentile Christians should go learn the non-burdensome or essential parts of the Law, in order to be empowered by the Holy Spirit of God to do the easy and light works of God, ie keep His commandments/laws. .......


REV.14:12 =12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
.
.
.
P S - It is inherited Adam's Original Sin that will be sending everyone to hell when they die = they are all born as original sinners and need a Saviour/Christ/Messiah(ROMANS.5:12). This Sin causes everyone to occasionally have involuntary  immoral/sinful thoughts and desires in their hearts like immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc. The spiritual source of this Sin-in-thoughts is Satan. If they are not careful this Sin-in-thought may develop into voluntary sins-in-deeds like murder, adultery, stealing, cheating/lying, etc = such sinners/law-breakers will be cursed by God with a sad and short life on earth.
*
How long have you been studying Scriptures ?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 4 2019, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 3 2019, 09:41 PM)
How long have you been studying Scriptures ?
*
Take a guess.

1 month.? = instant spiritual maturity like McD's unhealthy fast food or Maggi Mee's unhealthy instant noodles - cf; 1COR.3:1-3.
1 year.? 5 years.? 10 years.? 20 years.? 30 years.? 40 years.? Or even longer.?
.

About MATTHEW.5:21-48, at that time, the Jews and Pharisees were thinking that they were going to heaven(= saved from hell) by being perfect keepers of the Law, ie did not commit murder, insulting, adultery, vain swearing, stealing, cheating/lying, etc. They were only half-right. ...

... Before the Advent of Jesus Christ from heaven to earth in 30-33AD, only Jews who have perfectly kept Moses Law qualified to go to heaven when they die, as per LUKE.16:19-31, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, MATTHEW.17:3, eg beggar Lazarus, Moses and Elijah. The rich young Jew of LUKE.16 died early and ended up in Hades/hell for willfully/intentionally breaking the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie he refused to provide charity to the poor(= Lazarus) every Sabbath or 7th year.
....... After the 1st Advent and death of Jesus Christ on the Cross in 33AD, perfect-keepers of the Law no longer qualified to be saved from hell when they die, whether Jews or Gentiles, because the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ has already arrived on earth. Only those who believed in Jesus Christ would be saved from hell or inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God in heaven - JOHN.3:14-18, MATTHEW.4:17.

Today, US and other Jews still falsely believe that they are going to heaven(=saved from hell) by just believing in God and keeping Moses Law, as many laws as possible = no need Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah/Christ/Saviour. Similarly for the Muslims, ie they falsely believe that they are going to heaven by just believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad/Sharia Law.

At MATTHEW.5:21-48, the Lord/God Jesus Christ was trying to correct the Jews' and Pharisees' misconception about still being saved from hell by just keeping the Law = the Old Covenant of Law was going to be replaced by a New Covenant of Faith.
....... Bear in mind that the New Covenant of Faith did not destroy the Old Law, ie anyone who breaks the Old Law will still be cursed by God(= a sad and short life on earth) and anyone who keeps the Old Law/commandments will still be blessed by God(= a good and long life on earth), whether Jews, Gentiles, Christians or non-Christians - ROMANS.2, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-17, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

Unfortunately, there are misguided Christians who falsely believe that their New Hyper-Grace doctrine gave them the license-to-sin without any repercussions from God, as if they got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card by just believing in Jesus Christ. In truth, such willful sinning Christians will often end up with curses/calamities(eg cancer) from God and gravely risk losing their faith and salvation while suffering for their sins/lawlessness - HEBREWS.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIMOTHY.4:1, 2THESS.2:1-12, 1JOHN.3:1-10, MATTHEW.7:15-23.

Roman Catholic
post Oct 4 2019, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 4 2019, 01:27 PM)
Take a guess.

1 month.? = instant spiritual maturity like McD's unhealthy  fast food or Maggi Mee's unhealthy instant noodles - cf; 1COR.3:1-3.
1 year.? 5 years.? 10 years.? 20 years.? 30 years.? 40 years.? Or even longer.?
.

About MATTHEW.5:21-48, at that time, the Jews and Pharisees were thinking that they were going to heaven(= saved from hell) by being perfect keepers of the Law, ie did not commit murder, insulting, adultery, vain swearing, stealing, cheating/lying, etc. They were only half-right. ...

... Before the Advent of Jesus Christ from heaven to earth in 30-33AD, only Jews who have perfectly kept Moses Law qualified to go to heaven when they die, as per LUKE.16:19-31, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, MATTHEW.17:3, eg beggar Lazarus, Moses and Elijah. The rich young Jew of LUKE.16 died early and ended up in Hades/hell for willfully/intentionally breaking the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie he refused to provide charity to the poor(= Lazarus) every Sabbath or 7th year.
....... After the 1st Advent and death of Jesus Christ on the Cross in 33AD, perfect-keepers of the Law no longer qualified to be saved from hell when they die, whether Jews or Gentiles, because the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ has already arrived on earth. Only those who believed in Jesus Christ would be saved from hell or inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God in heaven - JOHN.3:14-18, MATTHEW.4:17.

Today, US and other Jews still falsely believe that they are going to heaven(=saved from hell) by just believing in God and keeping Moses Law, as many laws as possible = no need Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah/Christ/Saviour. Similarly for the Muslims, ie they  falsely believe that they are going to heaven by just believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad/Sharia Law.

At MATTHEW.5:21-48, the Lord/God Jesus Christ was trying to correct the Jews' and Pharisees' misconception about still being saved  from hell by just keeping the Law = the Old Covenant of Law was going to be replaced by a New Covenant of Faith.
....... Bear in mind that the New Covenant of Faith did not destroy the Old Law, ie anyone who breaks the Old Law will still be cursed by God(= a sad and short life on earth) and anyone who keeps the Old Law/commandments will still be blessed by God(= a good and long life on earth), whether Jews, Gentiles, Christians or non-Christians - ROMANS.2, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-17, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

Unfortunately, there are misguided Christians who falsely believe that their New Hyper-Grace doctrine gave them the license-to-sin without any repercussions from God, as if they got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card by just believing in Jesus Christ. In truth, such willful sinning Christians will often end up with curses/calamities(eg cancer) from God and gravely risk losing their faith and salvation while suffering for their sins/lawlessness - HEBREWS.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIMOTHY.4:1, 2THESS.2:1-12, 1JOHN.3:1-10, MATTHEW.7:15-23.
*
Lets cut out chase, just state any miracles you have done.

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 4 2019, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 4 2019, 03:06 PM)
Lets cut out chase, just state any miracles you have done.
*
MATTHEW.7:21-23 (NKJV) = I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

2THESS.2:9-11 = 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

JOHN.20:28-31 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

That You May Believe

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

HEBREWS.1 & 2 = God’s Supreme Revelation

1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, ...

Do Not Neglect Salvation

2:1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

1COR.13:8-13 = 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
yaokb
post Oct 4 2019, 10:17 PM

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I find that if you simply ignore posters like these, they eventually fade back into the woodwork.

This dupe probably is one of our regular friends who visit us from time to time.

His doctrines are unusual to say the least but are mostly harmless other than give the rest of us a bad rep.

So, no harm done
alexkos
post Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM

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Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
yaokb
post Oct 5 2019, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM)
Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
*
Actually both are correct.

We have to look at context.

In John 15, who was Jesus speaking to?

A large crowd or a small group of 11 people who already believe, and most of them will die while spreading the gospel?
Jesus was telling them they are chosen by Him to bear much fruit, not regarding salvation.

where else repent and believe , first spoken by Jesus in Mark 1:15 and He was addressing the public in Galilee.

moral of story.

Always check the context.


SUSazriqii
post Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM)
Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
*
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 2 2019, 10:26 AM)
Fyi, Bible verses against OSAS, ie the risk or possibility of Christians losing faith = losing salvation, eg through lawlessness or the willful breaking of God's commandments/laws. .......

REV.14:12 (NKJV) = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

2TIM.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
*
Other Bible verses against OSAS, .......

PHILIPPIANS.2:12-13 (NKJV) = 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
.

1TIMOTHY.4:1-3 = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
.

HEBREWS.6:1-8 = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
.

LUKE.9:57-62 = The Cost of Discipleship

57 Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.”

58 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

59 Then He said to another, “Follow Me.”

But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”

60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.”

62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
.

HEBREWS.10:19-25 = Hold Fast Your Confession

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
.

TITUS.1:10-16 = The Elders’ Task

10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
.

2TIMOTHY.2:8-13 = 8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the [c]elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
.

HEBREWS.4:1-3 = The Promise of Rest

4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
_______ _______
.
OSAS proponents often quote JOHN.10:27-30 to make their point that every person who has been once saved is always saved, no matter what he/she will decide and will do, as if he/she has no free will like a preprogrammed robot or stringed puppet and can never lose faith or deny the faith or depart from the faith.
....... If you cross-reference JOHN.10:27-30 with JOHN.17:6-26 and read them in context, you will see that Jesus/God was actually referring only to His 11+1 apostles, to whom He had guaranteed salvation, ie only 1 apostle was lost or snatched by the devil out of God's hand = Judas Iscariot, who was later repaced by God with Paul(ACTS.9:15-16).


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 10:59 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM)
Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
.
Discussion on how God works in predestining people, whether the elect or non-elect, may be the profane and idle babblings of those who want to like God. It's like them wondering and discussing about how God created and controlled the universe and time which is mostly beyond human comprehension.
...... Christians are to just do their part while God is doing or has done His part wrt the salvation of fallen Man. Why discuss about the things of God which we presently cannot comprehend.?

Always Keep the Faith

.......

.

2THESS.2:1-12 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:00 PM
SUSazriqii
post Oct 5 2019, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 5 2019, 12:12 PM)
.
Discussion on how God works in predestining people, whether the elect or non-elect, may be the profane and idle babblings of those who want to like God. It's like them wondering and discussing about how God created and controlled the universe and time which is mostly beyond human comprehension.
...... Christians are to just do their part while God is doing or has done His part wrt the salvation of fallen Man. Why discuss about the things of God which we presently cannot comprehend.?

Keep the Faith

.......

.

2THESS.2:1-12 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
*
Your question is why discuss? Why not? Discussion lead to the truth. Calvin did not invent calvinisms it is the truth revealed in the bible.
mubtadi
post Oct 5 2019, 04:21 PM

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Hello my christian brethren, peace be upon those who follow the truth. I am preparing a research on the prescription of the heaven in the scriptures. May I post a question here regarding the prescription of heaven in the bible.

Thanks

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 01:17 PM)
Your question is why discuss? Why not? Discussion lead to the truth. Calvin did not invent calvinisms it is the truth revealed in the bible.
*
Like I already said, discussions about how God does things that is beyond human comprehension may be profane and idle babblings that do not lead to truth but to confusion and needless arguments, eg discussions about predestination and the inner workings of God's Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience.
.

In the Story of Job, circa 2000BC, at JOB.38-41 God castigated Job for demanding an answer from Him as to why he was made to suffer (= JOB.31) since he thought he had done no wrong/sins. At JOB.42, Job immediately repented after God personally spoke to him, even though he did not get the appropriate answer from God as to why he was made to suffer = he kept the faith and was doubly blessed by God in the end.
....... In comparison, his wife probably lost faith - JOB.2:9.

So, Job should not have opened his mouth and demanded an answer from God.

Only about 400 years later, was it revealed through Moses Law at EXODUS.20:5 that Job had ignorantly sinned against God by making a profane offering to God to "insure" his prosperity against his sons' likely future sins/evil-deeds(= JOB.1:5) which he greatly feared of losing(= JOB.3:25), ie he had worried for nothing because a son's sins would not have befallen on the father. It was the other way round, ie only a father's sins would befall on the sons, down to the 4th generation. Job was ignorant of this law of God since it had yet to be revealed or given by God.

Similarly, some Gentile Christians are ignorant of God's non-burdensome laws/commandments and they may end up like Job's wife, ie suffer for their ignorant sins/law-breaking and then lose faith and salvation, eg go and consult satanic or demonic tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm-readers, horoscope, psychics, witches/sorcerers, shamans, ouija-boards, dream-catchers, etc = breaking God's law/commandment at DEUT.18:9-14.

Remember, Jewish Christians are very different from Gentile Christians. At conversion, most Gentile Christian adults have led lawless lives from childhood = they may not even not know all the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17. So, Gentile Christians are more prone to breaking the non-burdensome parts of God's Law ignorantly than Jewish Christian adults who mostly have led law-abiding lives from childhood wrt the 613 laws/commandments in Moses Law.
....... Law-abiding people have nothing to fear from God or the police/government. .......


2TIMOTHY.3:14-17 = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 5 2019, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 5 2019, 06:03 PM)
Like I already said, discussions about how God does things that is beyond human comprehension may be profane and idle babblings that do not lead to truth but to confusion and needless arguments, eg discussions about predestination and the inner workings of God's Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience.
.

In the Story of Job, circa 2000BC, at JOB.38-41 God castigated Job for demanding an answer from Him as to why he was made to suffer (= JOB.31) since he thought he had done no wrong/sins. At JOB.42, Job immediately repented after God personally spoke to him, even though he did not get the appropriate answer from God as to why he was made to suffer = he kept the faith and was doubly blessed by God in the end.
....... In comparison, his wife probably lost faith - JOB.2:9.

So, Job should not have opened his mouth and demanded an answer from God.

Only about 400 years later, was it revealed through Moses Law at EXODUS.20:5 that Job had ignorantly sinned against God by making a profane offering to God to "insure" his prosperity against his sons' likely future sins/evil-deeds(= JOB.1:5) which he greatly feared of losing(= JOB.3:25), ie he had worried for nothing because a son's sins would not have befallen on the father. It was  the other way round, ie only a father's sins would befall on the sons, down to the 4th generation. Job was ignorant of this law of God since it had yet to be revealed or given by God.

Similarly, some Gentile Christians are ignorant of God's non-burdensome laws/commandments and they may end up like Job's wife, ie suffer for their ignorant sins/law-breaking and then lose faith and salvation, eg go and consult satanic or demonic tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm-readers, horoscope, psychics, witches/sorcerers, shamans, ouija-boards, dream-catchers, etc = breaking God's law/commandment at DEUT.18:9-14.

Remember, Jewish Christians are very different from Gentile Christians. At conversion, most Gentile Christian adults have led lawless lives from childhood = they may not even not know all the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17. So, Gentile Christians are more prone to breaking the non-burdensome parts of God's Law ignorantly than Jewish Christian adults who mostly have led law-abiding lives from childhood wrt the 613 laws/commandments in Moses Law.
....... Law-abiding people have nothing to fear from God or the police/government. .......


2TIMOTHY.3:14-17 = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
*
Dude, are you roman Catholic? Calvin just represent the truth, he didn't add or minus anything new. It's not ok to be ignorant. God wanted you to know something that's why He gave you the bible.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 07:09 PM)
Dude, are you roman Catholic? Calvin just represent the truth, he didn't add or minus anything new. It's not ok to be ignorant. God wanted you to know something that's why He gave you the bible.
*
.
.
https://www.learnreligions.com/calvinism-vs...inianism-700526
QUOTE
Compare Beliefs of Calvinism Vs. Arminianism

God's Sovereignty

The sovereignty of God is the belief that God is in complete control over everything that happens in the universe. His rule is supreme, and his will is the final cause of all things.

Calvinism: In Calvinist thinking, God's sovereignty is unconditional, unlimited, and absolute. All things are predetermined by the good pleasure of God's will. God foreknew because of his own planning.

Arminianism: To the Arminian, God is sovereign, but has limited his control in correspondence with man's freedom and response. God's decrees are associated with his foreknowledge of man's response.
.

Man's Depravity

Calvinist believe in the total depravity of man while Arminians hold to an idea dubbed "partial depravity."

Calvinism: Because of the Fall, man is totally depraved and dead in his sin. Man is unable to save himself and, therefore, God must initiate salvation.

Arminianism: Because of the Fall, man has inherited a corrupted, depraved nature. Through "prevenient grace," God removed the guilt of Adam's sin. Prevenient grace is defined as the preparatory work of the Holy Spirit, given to all, enabling a person to respond to God's call to salvation.
.

Election

Election refers to the concept of how people are chosen for salvation. Calvinists believe election is unconditional, while Arminians believe election is conditional.

Calvinism: Before the foundation of the world, God unconditionally chose (or "elected") some to be saved. Election has nothing to do with man's future response. The elect are chosen by God.

Arminianism: Election is based on God's foreknowledge of those who would believe in him through faith. In other words, God elected those who would choose him of their own free will. Conditional election is based on man's response to God's offer of salvation.
.

Grace

God's grace has to do with his call to salvation. Calvinism says God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism argues that it can be resisted.

Calvinism: While God extends his common grace to all humankind, it is not sufficient to save anyone. Only God's irresistible grace can draw the elect to salvation and make a person willing to respond. This grace cannot be obstructed or resisted.

Arminianism: Through the preparatory (prevenient) grace given to all by the Holy Spirit, man is able to cooperate with God and respond in faith to salvation. Through prevenient grace, God removed the effects of Adam's sin. Because of "free will" men are also able to resist God's grace.

The above opposing doctrines of Calvinism vs Arminianism are just human speculations about God's mind/thinking, intentions and secrets. No one can know/comprehend them until God actually reveals them Himself to humans which He has yet to do. Maybe, after Judgment Day.

It's like nobody can know about what you are thinking, your real intentions and hidden secrets until you reveal them yourself to others.

This is similar to the endless and needless debate between Christians vs atheists, Buddhists, Jews and Muslims, about where they will be going after they die, ie will it be back to dust/atoms, reincarnation, heaven or hell.? While still alive on earth, no one can know the true answer until he/she actually dies. So, it's pointless for Christians to argue with non-Christians about the afterlife.


SUSazriqii
post Oct 6 2019, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 6 2019, 01:10 AM)
.
.
https://www.learnreligions.com/calvinism-vs...inianism-700526

The above opposing doctrines of Calvinism vs Arminianism are just human speculations about God's mind/thinking, intentions and secrets. No one can know/comprehend them until God actually  reveals them Himself to humans which He has yet to do. Maybe, after Judgment Day.

It's like nobody can know about what you are thinking, your real intentions and hidden secrets until you reveal them yourself to others.

This is similar to the endless and needless debate between Christians vs atheists, Buddhists, Jews and Muslims, about where they will be going after they die, ie will it be back to dust/atoms, reincarnation,  heaven or hell.? While still alive on earth, no one can know the true answer until he/she actually dies. So, it's pointless for Christians to argue with non-Christians about the afterlife.

*
You are so unclear about scripture. I stop here, go debate (or waste time) with others.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 6 2019, 10:26 AM)
You are so unclear about scripture. ....
*
DEUT.29:29 (NKJV) = 29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
.

JOB.38:1-11 = 38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

_______ _______

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

John Calvin, his Church, and politicians ruled the city-state of Geneva in Switzerland during the Protestant Reformation in the mid-1500s. They executed political opponents and Christian "heretics"(= eg Michael Servetus). John Calvin was no different from the "heretical" and murderous/persecutorial Catholic Popes and Martin Luther(= his Lutheran Church also executed Anabaptist and Mennonite "heretics" and political opponents in Germany).
....... So, from his works/fruits, John Calvin was also a false prophet/pastor/preacher, just like the Pope and Luther - MATTHEW.7:15-23, GAL.5:19-21, REV.17.
....... Widespread illiteracy among the masses and the lack of printed Bibles in the hands of ordinary Christians allowed these power-crazy false prophets/pastors/preachers the opportunity to run riot - "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."(HOSEA.4:6)

IOW, the Protestant Reformation was actually a political movement against the political power of the Catholic Popes in Europe. Religion was used as an excuse for this political revolt. At one time, the Pope was even more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor since the Pope could hold sway over all the Christian citizens in Europe wrt his papal power for excommunication, execution and condemnation to hell as Christian heretics, eg the Galileo trials/Inquisition.

It was the intolerant/persecutorial, murderous and war-mongering false prophets/pastors/preachers like the Catholic Popes, Protestant English Kings(= head of the Anglican Church), John Calvin and Martin Luther who prompted the mostly Protestant Founding Fathers of America to institute the separation of Church and State in the 1776 US Constitution, ie wrt political power.
....... Most of the American settlers in the 17th century were Protestant refugees who had escaped religious persecution and wars in Europe, eg the Puritans on the Mayflower ship escaped religious persecution by the English Kings and Anglican Church.

After the great ministry of the apostles of Christ in the New Testament, why did God allow the Church to descend to such a horrible state as above.? = a mystery of God.

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Sep 26 2019, 03:45 PM)
Welcome Fellow Christians.

We are here to fellowship, to reach out, to encourage, to strengthen one another and to be a Witness unto this lost world of the goodness and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
FAQ
Few simple RULES to follow in our fellowship thread.

1. No flaming/troll post please. Let's keep this fellowship thread clean, positive and encouraging, as the purpose is more for believers of Christ.
2. Do not argue about other religions please. People of other Faith are welcome to ask and enquire genuine questions or out of curiosity about Christianity.
3. What's discussed in here, stays in here.
4. Do not spark an argument or to cause excessive argument, both are not allowed, your post will be deleted and report to Admin of Forum


Previous Threads
V14
V14
v13
v13
v12
v12
V11
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3855898
V10
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3599570
V09
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3485130
V08
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3393815
V07
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3197598
V06
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...&t=2621686&st=0
V05
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395
V04
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/801729
Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/
http://www.guitar4christ.com
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV
http://www.god.tv/

Good TV
http://www.goodtv.tv/
Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/

Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm

Dear Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor.
LYN Christ Followers

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Christian BookShop
1) Salvation Bookstore - PJ SS2, Summit USJ
2) Glad Sound - PJ SS2, Taipan USJ 10, One Utama
3) Evangel - PJ SS2
4) MPH Bookstore
5) Canaanland Sdn Bhd: - http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
*
.
.

QUOTE(mubtadi @ Oct 5 2019, 04:21 PM)
Hello my christian brethren, peace be upon those who follow the truth. I am preparing a research on the prescription of the heaven in the scriptures. May I post a question here regarding the prescription of heaven in the bible.

Thanks
*
@ mubtadi ....... The above links fyi.

SUSazriqii
post Oct 6 2019, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 6 2019, 01:54 PM)
DEUT.29:29 (NKJV) = 29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
.

JOB.38:1-11 = 38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2  “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3  Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4  “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5  Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6  To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7  When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8  “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9  When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10  When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11  When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

_______ _______

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

John Calvin, his Church, and politicians ruled the city-state of Geneva in Switzerland during the Protestant Reformation in the mid-1500s. They executed political opponents and Christian "heretics"(= eg Michael Servetus). John Calvin was no different from the "heretical" and murderous/persecutorial Catholic Popes and Martin Luther(= his Lutheran Church also executed Anabaptist and Mennonite "heretics" and political opponents in Germany).
....... So, from his works/fruits, John Calvin was also a false prophet/pastor/preacher, just like the Pope and Luther - MATTHEW.7:15-23, GAL.5:19-21, REV.17.
....... Widespread illiteracy among the masses and the lack of printed Bibles in the hands of ordinary Christians allowed these power-crazy false prophets/pastors/preachers the opportunity to run riot - "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."(HOSEA.4:6)

IOW, the Protestant Reformation was actually a political movement against the political power of the Catholic Popes in Europe. Religion was used as an excuse for this political revolt. At one time, the Pope was even more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor since the Pope could hold sway over all the Christian citizens in Europe wrt his papal power for excommunication, execution and condemnation to hell as Christian heretics, eg the Galileo trials/Inquisition.

It was the  intolerant/persecutorial, murderous and war-mongering false prophets/pastors/preachers like the Catholic Popes, Protestant English Kings(= head of the Anglican Church), John Calvin and Martin Luther who prompted the mostly Protestant Founding Fathers of America to institute the separation of Church and State in the 1776 US Constitution, ie wrt political power.
....... Most of the American settlers in the 17th century were Protestant refugees who had escaped religious persecution and wars in Europe, eg the Puritans on the Mayflower ship escaped religious persecution by the English Kings and Anglican Church.

After the great ministry of the apostles of Christ in the New Testament, why did God allow the Church to descend to such a horrible state as above.? = a mystery of God.

*
I didn't deny how God is working in a myterios way but I subscribe to Paul's justification by faith, I'm not an arminian. I found your quote of scripture or your answer didn't answer within the discussion. Try to understand what are we discussing first, going broad is self syok
yaokb
post Oct 7 2019, 09:32 AM

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Just a heads up.

poster mubtadi PM and requested

"Hello, I am looking for a person who can assist me in studying bible. May you help me in discussing certain aspect of bible. I need a reference and correspondence for my study

Thanks"

You guys may receive similar requests

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 7 2019, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 3 2019, 10:41 AM)
ROMANS.14:1-13 (NKJV) = The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
_______ _______

Where does the New Testament state that Christians must tithe 10% to their Church.?

As per ACTS.15:19-29 and GALATIANS.5:1-15, Gentile Christians have been liberated from God's burdensome laws. So, wrt burdensome or non-essential laws, Gentile Christians are at liberty to self-decide to obey or not to obey them, eg circumcision, kosher/clean foods, Sabbath Sunday, etc. .......


In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
.
So, you do admit at least that the passage applied to supporting fellow believers and not to any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry, especially the enemies of believers.

Notice that it was the righteous and saved sheep who were asking Jesus Christ those questions. So, it would be odd that they did not know that He was referring to them as those being fed, given drink, shelter, clothed, visited in prison and when sick.
...... At MATTHEW.24 & 25, Jesus was speaking to His apostles/disciples. So, I believe He was referring to His apostles/disciples when He said "My brethren", as alluded by .......

MATTHEW.10:9-15 = . 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
*
The Law of liberty has nothing to do with deciding the portion of tithe. Read the whole context, it has to do with judgmental attitude towards another brother where he seem to be weak or thought to have fallen from grace in comparison to the one who judge him

There you go again, having an erroneous idea of tithing, I think I've said this before tithing's primary reason is not to the Church or Pastors, has nothing to do with burdensome. That is a very carnal understanding. Go research more and read more on why we tithe.

As for where is the scripture in the New Testament that support on Tithing, I've just supplied to you in the previous post. Something to do with the priest Melchizedek and Christ Jesus himself did mention to practice tithing.

As for what I've shared on giving hospitality towards stranger, nobody is suggesting that you show it to people like ISIS or murderers. It is suggested that you showed to strangers who are in need, who in dire straits or in helplessness. Why? Because as what James suggested, faith without work is dead...they need help and you would never know if the person is a believer or not. And it does not matter. You don't do it for the sake that they are believers but because it's your new creation nature, we are meant to be a channel for God's love to touch lives.

That is why the sheeps was never conscious of who they help when asked by the Great Judge on Judgment day. That is why the scripture verses were linked in my sharing.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 7 2019, 12:23 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 7 2019, 11:48 AM

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Joined: Sep 2019
From: South Klang Valley suburb




QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 6 2019, 02:22 PM)
I didn't deny how God is working in a myterios way but I subscribe to Paul's justification by faith, I'm not an arminian. I found your quote of scripture or your answer didn't answer within the discussion. Try to understand what are we discussing first, going broad is self syok
*
.
You were tying repentance and justification by faith with predestination, which is a Calvinist doctrine. That may be profane and idle babblings about the mysteries and secrets of God which are beyond human comprehension = no point delving about Calvin's predestination.

Cunningly, the Calvinists claim that God has predestined only them as the elect, while most other non-Calvinists have been predestined to be the non-elect, especially if they do not submit to Calvinist doctrines. To me, the Calvinists predestination doctrine is being presumptious of God = a grave sin. Only God can be the Judge wrt salvation.

_______ _______

If you read Martin Luther's biographies, you will come across how he willfully committed sins/law-breaking just to clear his own Satanic doubts about his own salvation through justification by faith. Hence, he and his German cohorts enjoyed drinking beer/alcohol, making revelry/partying and coarse jokes. He died of a stroke at age 62, probably from too much drinking.
....... It can be said that Martin Luther is the father of the false Hyper-Grace (= license-to-sin) doctrine. .......

QUOTE
Whenever the devil pesters you with these thoughts, at once seek out the company of men, drink more, joke and jest, or engage in some other form of merriment. Sometimes it is necessary to drink a little more, play, jest, or even commit some sin in defiance and contempt of the devil in order not to give him an opportunity to make us scrupulous about trifles. We shall be overcome if we worry too much about falling into some sin.

Accordingly if the devil should say, “do not drink” you should reply to him “on this very account, because you forbid it, I shall drink, and what is more, I shall drink a generous amount.” Thus one must always do the opposite of that which Satan prohibits. What do you think is my reason for drinking wine undiluted, talking freely, and eating more often if it is not to torment and vex the devil who made up his mind to torment and vex me? Would that I could commit some token sin simply for the sake of mocking the devil, so that he might understand that I acknowledge no sin and am conscious of no sin. When the devil attacks and torments us we must completely set aside the whole Decalogue. When the devil throws our sins up to us and declares that we deserve death and hell, we ought to speak thus: ‘I admit that I deserve death and hell. What of it? Does this mean that I shall be sentenced to eternal damnation? By no means. For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction in my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Where he is, there I shall also be”

https://stevevaughan10.com/2012/07/24/get-d...her-told-me-so/ - GET DRUNK – Martin Luther told me so - 24 July 2012
QUOTE

“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!” ― Martin Luther

GAL.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 7 2019, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 7 2019, 11:48 AM)
.
You were tying repentance and justification by faith with predestination, which is a Calvinist doctrine. That may be profane and idle babblings about the mysteries and secrets of God which are beyond human comprehension = no point delving about Calvin's predestination.

Cunningly, the Calvinists claim that God has predestined only them as the elect, while most other non-Calvinists have been predestined to be the non-elect, especially if they do not submit to Calvinist doctrines. To me, the Calvinists predestination doctrine is being presumptious of God = a grave sin. Only God can be the Judge wrt salvation.

_______ _______

If you read Martin Luther's biographies, you will come across how he willfully committed sins/law-breaking just to clear his own Satanic doubts about his own salvation through justification by faith. Hence, he and his German cohorts enjoyed drinking beer/alcohol, making revelry/partying and coarse jokes. He died of a stroke at age 62, probably from too much drinking.
....... It can be said that Martin Luther is the father of the false Hyper-Grace (= license-to-sin) doctrine. .......


https://stevevaughan10.com/2012/07/24/get-d...her-told-me-so/ -  GET DRUNK – Martin Luther told me so - 24 July 2012

GAL.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
*
Hmm, I think you misunderstood what's mean to be a calvinist. I don't anti calvinsms because I because justification by faith, which is not an invention of Calvin but a truth revealed in the bible. Stop saying God works in a mysterious way, I never deny that. Calvinist believe the saved one is predestined before the foundation of the world, so if you're a Christian you should thanks God for He has elected you, that should be your attitude. We don't judge those who does not believe in Christ, but preach the good news to them. If a person die a Christian I expect to see him/her in heaven and acknowledge the fact that he/she is predestined by God to be saved, if a person die as a non Christian, he had heard the gospel and rejected Chris, we perceived he's not the son of God. Got it?

And I think you're quoting the wrong verse regarding prestination. Luther was saved despite his failure in reaching God standard. That's the reason why Christ came actually. Christian still sin, but thrive to overcome by the power of Christ. Sinning does not bring you to hell, unbelieve does. Sinning unrepentantly cause you to lose fellowship and got discipline from the Father. There are stage of maturity in faith.

This post has been edited by azriqii: Oct 7 2019, 01:26 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 7 2019, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 01:22 PM)
....... , if a person die as a non Christian, he had heard the gospel and rejected Chris, we perceived he's not the son of God. Got it?

And I think you're quoting the wrong verse regarding prestination. Luther was saved despite his failure in reaching God standard. That's the reason why Christ came actually. Christian still sin, but thrive to overcome by the power of Christ. Sinning does not bring you to hell, unbelieve does. Sinning unrepentantly cause you to lose fellowship and got discipline from the Father. There are stage of maturity in faith.
*
It is not impossible that the Lord/God Jesus Christ miraculously appears in front of the above person on his/her deathbed to Personally save him/her from hell, ala LUKE.23:43, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, ACTS.9:5. So, it is presumptuous for you and other Calvinists to condemn anyone who is still living on this earth as not being saved from hell or not being the son of God.

At this moment in time, you and I do not really know whether we will still be keeping the faith in Jesus Christ and be truly saved from hell when we actually suffer death some years from now, especially if we keep on committing sins willfully and/or ignorantly like Martin Luther = it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

_______ _______

QUOTE
When the devil attacks and torments us we must completely set aside the whole Decalogue.

I believe Martin Luther very likely held on to his false beliefs and teachings until he died, ie when attacked and tormented by the devil to go and drink or commit other sins, Christians should set aside the whole 10 Commandments and go and willfully/intentionally commit the sins, just to mock the devil = salvation through justification by faith gave him the self-justification to commit sins = the license-to-sin. Some Lutherans, Calvinists and other Christians follow this false Hyper-Grace teaching of Martin Luther all the way to their deaths = merrily sinning ignorantly to their deaths.

The Bible verse below commands Christians to Spirit'ually place their faith/trust in the Word of God(= including the Law of God), in order to quench all the fiery darts of the devil, ... and not by willfully committing sins, as taught by Martin Luther above.


EPHESIANS.6:16-17 = ... 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ....
.
.
.
P S - Buying non-mandatory insurance, eg life and/or health insurance, and buying lotteries, is likely a sin because doing so shows a lack of faith in God, who blesses people with a good and long life on earth for keeping His Law, and vice versa - ROMANS.2:1-12, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

P P S - It is said that unbelievers on their deathbed often see and/or hear demons floating around waiting to devour them. GENESIS.3:14-19 says that Satan/demons eat dust = decaying dead human bodies = Adam/humans was cursed to die physically and return to dust.

SUSazriqii
post Oct 7 2019, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 7 2019, 03:19 PM)
It is not impossible that the Lord/God Jesus Christ miraculously appears in front of the above person on his/her deathbed to Personally save him/her from hell, ala LUKE.23:43, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, ACTS.9:5. So, it is presumptuous for you and other Calvinists to condemn anyone who is still living on this earth as  not being saved from hell or not being the son of God.

At this moment in time, you and I do not really know whether we will still be keeping the faith in Jesus Christ and be truly saved from hell when we actually suffer death some years from now, especially if we keep on committing sins willfully and/or ignorantly like Martin Luther = it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

_______ _______
I believe Martin Luther very likely held on to his false beliefs and teachings until he died, ie when attacked and tormented by the devil to go and drink or commit other sins, Christians should set aside the whole 10 Commandments and go and willfully/intentionally commit the sins, just to mock the devil = salvation through justification by faith gave him the self-justification to commit sins = the license-to-sin. Some Lutherans, Calvinists and other Christians follow this false Hyper-Grace teaching of Martin Luther all the way to their deaths = merrily sinning ignorantly to their deaths.

The Bible verse below commands Christians to Spirit'ually place their faith/trust in the Word of God(= including the Law of God), in order to quench all the fiery darts of the devil, ... and not by willfully committing sins, as taught by Martin Luther above.


EPHESIANS.6:16-17 =  ... 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ....
.
.
.
P S - Buying non-mandatory insurance, eg life and/or health insurance, and buying lotteries, is likely a sin because doing so shows a lack of faith in God, who blesses people with a good and long life on earth for keeping His Law, and vice versa - ROMANS.2:1-12, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

P P S - It is said that unbelievers on their deathbed often see and/or hear demons floating around waiting to devour them. GENESIS.3:14-19 says that Satan/demons eat dust = decaying dead human bodies = Adam/humans was cursed to die physically and return to dust.

*
Don't quote so many verses la, keep it short, that doesn't make you sounds right. Jesus said those who not believe will go to hell so what's your take for that? Be liberal? Do charity like many groups alrdy did? I want to stop this right here, stop reply pls. You're not getting the points.
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post Oct 7 2019, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 05:07 PM)
Don't quote so many verses la, keep it short, that doesn't make you sounds right. Jesus said those who not believe will go to hell so what's your take for that? Be liberal? Do charity like many groups alrdy did? I want to stop this right here, stop reply pls. You're not getting the points.
*
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.

QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 05:07 PM)
Don't quote so many verses la, keep it short, that doesn't make you sounds right.
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Seems, some people are averse to seeing many Bible verses or the Word of God.
....... Loving God with all your heart, soul and mind = loving the Word(= Bible verses) with all your heart, soul and mind, because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16, ISAIAH.9:6.

.
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 05:07 PM)
Jesus said those who not believe will go to hell so what's your take for that? Be liberal? Do charity like many groups alrdy did? I want to stop this right here, stop reply pls. You're not getting the points.
*
Yes, that's what the Word/Bible says but only God knows who are the actual ones going to hell whose names are not written in the Book of Life(REV.20:15). You or I or John Calvin or Martin Luther or the Pope do not know the actual names of those not written or are written in the Book of Life, except those already revealed in the Bible as are written, eg Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Moses, beggar Lazarus, the young Jewish robber at LUKE.23:43, the 12 apostles, Stephen and a few others = mostly faithful Jews and Jewish Christians.
....... Seems, some Christians today would like to be the Judge of this by sitting on the throne of God, especially Calvinist predestinationists..

How to stop reply if you keep asking me questions.? Stop question pls.

.

REV.20:12-15 (NKJV) = 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 7 2019, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 7 2019, 10:44 PM)
.
.
Seems, some people are averse to seeing many Bible verses or the Word of God.
....... Loving God with all your heart, soul and mind = loving the Word(= Bible verses) with all your heart, soul and mind, because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16, ISAIAH.9:6.

.

Yes, that's what the Word/Bible says but only God knows who are the actual ones going to hell whose names are not written in the Book of Life(REV.20:15). You or I or John Calvin or Martin Luther or the Pope do not know the actual names of those not written or are written in the Book of Life, except those already revealed in the Bible as are written, eg Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Moses, beggar Lazarus, the young Jewish robber at LUKE.23:43, the 12 apostles, Stephen and a few others = mostly faithful Jews and Jewish Christians.
....... Seems, some Christians today would like to be the Judge of this by sitting on the  throne of God, especially Calvinist predestinationists..

How to stop reply if you keep asking me questions.? Stop question pls.

.

REV.20:12-15 (NKJV) = 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
*
if u don't believe go to hell, that's in the bible.
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post Oct 8 2019, 01:59 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 11:28 PM)
if u don't believe go to hell, that's in the bible.
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JOHN.3:14-21 (NKJV) = 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
_______ _______

Believe in Jesus Christ for our salvation entails us also believing in the Word/Bible because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word or is the Word of God - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIM.3:16, ISA.9:6.
....... God speaking to His prophets in the Old Testament is the same as Jesus Christ speaking to His apostles in the New Testament.

Martin Luther setting aside the Decalogue/10 Commandments and willfully breaking them when attacked and tormented by the devil, meant that he had stopped believing in the Word or Jesus Christ. This goes for all his followers who similarly broke the commandments/laws/Word of God when attacked and tormented by the devil..


.
JOHN.15:5-8 = 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

[B]JOHN.6:63-64
= 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
mubtadi
post Oct 8 2019, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 6 2019, 02:15 PM)
.
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@ mubtadi ....... The above links fyi.
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Thanks Lurkingaround for the reply,



mubtadi
post Oct 8 2019, 08:46 AM

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I am making a comparison between Quran and Bible regarding description of the heaven.

My study covers the aspects below:

First, to establish the authority of the sources regarding the issue

2nd, the descriptions of the heaven in the both sources

3rd, comparing the both descriptions

noted: my English not very good, still try to improve it.

Regarding the first one, I have a Quran as a primer reference, then the hadith as a secunder ref, in order to have more detail description and elaboration from the primer reference.

I really appreciate if you may help me to find the ref. in Christianity and the authority of the reference.
mubtadi
post Oct 8 2019, 08:50 AM

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I am not sure regarding my post here is it suitable or not? hopefully it is not cause any disturbance for the members here, or it should have it own thread, I am not very familiar with the forum because rarely use it. Anyways, thanks for the reply from the brothers
KLthinker91
post Oct 8 2019, 08:59 AM

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From: Cherasboy
1) since when Khai92 decided to post here too?

2) concerning the many "new" posters and some of the subject matter, we had better be wise as serpents and innocent as doves

Good day to you all.
alexkos
post Oct 8 2019, 09:00 AM

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If a man does not provide for his own, even of his own household, he has denied the faith, and is worse off than infidel.

Q1. To whom does Paul refer to when he says 'his own', 'his own household'?
Q2. Why does not providing for one's own translate to rejecting Christ?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 8 2019, 09:01 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 8 2019, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:59 AM)
1) since when Khai92 decided to post here too?

2) concerning the many "new" posters and some of the subject matter, we had better be wise as serpents and innocent as doves

Good day to you all.
*
2) True. It is against Malaysian Law for a non-Muslim to proselytize to a Muslim. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse.
....... In Malaysia and most other Muslim countries, it is up to the concerned Muslims themselves to find out more about other religions = they do not really need the non-Muslims' help. If they really and desperately need help, they can move to a non-Muslim country. It's like people should not spoon-feed a normal capable adult person.


MATTHEW.22:21 (NKJV) = And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Only when our salvation is at stake, should we disobey Caesar or our government(= obey God instead), eg if our government requires us to renounce God/Christ or break the non-burdensome laws/commandments of God, like the 10 Commandments.

Also, only when our government has become a terror to good works (= an oppressive tyrant and excessively corrupt government), should it be overthrown by popular votes or mass revolt/protests, ie Christians can participate in such votes or revolt/protests, ie when our government has become the opposite of the goodly God-appointed government at ROMANS.13:1-7.

Good day.




TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM)
Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
*
It has always been the choice/will of God to save us, but that choice is up to the individual to receive.

Even in the context of pre-destination, it always have been God's intent and desire to have laid out Salvation plan before the foundation of the world and YET we still need to make that conscious decision to receive Him.

I don't think God control our will or force conditions in a person's life making him saved for sure.

I think this is where we are missing it in the argument of pre-destination.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 8 2019, 10:43 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 09:00 AM)
If a man does not provide for his own, even of his own household, he has denied the faith, and is worse off than infidel.

Q1. To whom does Paul refer to when he says 'his own', 'his own household'?
Q2. Why does not providing for one's own translate to rejecting Christ?
*
q1. Own family member, own brethren

q2. If you're able to help then I think should help. If you can't and in need, then just do whatever you can. If one does not help own family or brethren in need, we never fully understand what it means to love.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 10:46 AM

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I have a question to ask.

What if a person has Alzheimer or has some kind of disability in the mind, how can that person be saved?


SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 10:46 AM)
I have a question to ask.

What if a person has Alzheimer or has some kind of disability in the mind, how can that person be saved?
*
If he believed before the alzheimer then he's saved. We can ask tougher question: what happens to babies or kids who haven't have the ability to believ but died? Only God knows.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 11:27 AM)
If he believed before the alzheimer then he's saved. We can ask tougher question: what happens to babies or kids who haven't have the ability to believ but died? Only God knows.
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Kids have special place according to God's word.

I'm asking after not before.
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 10:46 AM)
I have a question to ask.

What if a person has Alzheimer or has some kind of disability in the mind, how can that person be saved?
*
That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already in the Kingdom of Heaven interceeding on the person's behalf.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 12:46 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 12:44 PM)
That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already i)n the Kingdom of Heaven in the presence of our Father.
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Perhaps that is the Catholic's doctrine but I'm wondering where the Bible says something about the confession of the mouth.


Romans 10:10 (KJV) - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 12:44 PM)
That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already in the Kingdom of Heaven interceeding on the  person's behalf.
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Infant baptism is not biblical.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.




alexkos
post Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM

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Q. If salvation is by grace alone, i.e., none deserve it, then why is it up to the choice of man to receive it, as if God needs our permission to save us?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM)
Q. If salvation is by grace alone, i.e., none deserve it, then why is it up to the choice of man to receive it, as if God needs our permission to save us?
*
I think has very much to do with the matter of free will.

I would be bold enough to say God didn't create us without giving us the will to decide.

The evidence of why I say this? Adam & Eve fell.




Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 12:47 PM)
Perhaps that is the Catholic's doctrine but I'm wondering where the Bible says something about the confession of the mouth.
Romans 10:10 (KJV) - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
*
I am definately not an expert in Catholic doctrine but intercession is clearly found in scriptures. However the initial question was related to a sickness of an unsound mind, right ? Confession from an unsound mind, now that I've never experienced before.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:05 PM)
I am definately not an expert in Catholic doctrine but intercession is clearly found in scriptures. However the initial question was related to a sickness of an unsound mind, right ? Confession from an unsound mind, now that I've never experienced before.
*
Perhaps you can imagine....if one has parents or grand parents or any relative who are not saved but has this mind disability.

How lah? I've been praying on this.



Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 01:08 PM)
Perhaps you can imagine....if one has parents or grand parents or any relative who are not saved but has this mind disability.

How lah? I've been praying on this.
*
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 01:17 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM)
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊
*
??? but that is exorcism. Different scenario.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 12:57 PM)
Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.
*
Anglican also practice infant baptisms, im not against roman Catholic.
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM)
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊
*
Like who? Paul, Peter etc? I thought call on Jesus is enough?
alexkos
post Oct 8 2019, 01:33 PM

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Q. Is God who is the creator of the universe knows the ending of the story, including the salvation of His elect?
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 01:24 PM)
Like who? Paul, Peter etc? I thought call on Jesus is enough?
*
Calling on our Lord Jesus Christ would suffice definately but battling with such forces is very very taxing & tiring. I was completely drained after the 1st round.

Might as well call in the calvary, I thought. Definately the Archangels was called upon and every holy brethren whom I personally know of, that has gone ahead of us. Oooppps I am sure I missed out St. Peter & St. Paul.
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post Oct 8 2019, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 8 2019, 01:21 PM)
???  but that is exorcism. Different scenario.
*
The scenario is different but the principles are the same. 😊
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:48 PM)
Calling on our Lord Jesus Christ would suffice definately but battling with such forces is very very taxing & tiring. I was completely drained after the 1st round.

Might as well call in the calvary, I thought. Definately the Archangels was called upon and every holy brethren whom I personally know of, that has gone ahead of us. Oooppps I am sure I missed out St. Peter & St. Paul.
*
Feel weird to me, as I'm not a roman Catholic.
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
*
Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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It is ok, Unknown Warrior.

Yup you are right azriqii, that is in not biblical in that, it was not expressed explicitly. However it can be implied, can it not ? 😊

I do not know about your experiences with other faiths, but lets look at other communities of different faiths. Can you see the differences between our baptised young ones and their young ones ?

I am forever grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself promises and gives us every Christian His Spirit, His Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truths, so that we can "see" while to others outside, they may look and look but never see. King Solomon desire for wisdom is what we, as Christians, must try to emulate.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 02:12 PM
SUSazriqii
post Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 02:07 PM)
Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.
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Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:09 PM)
It is ok, Unknown Warrior.

Yup you are right azriqii, that is in not biblical in that, it was not expressed explicitly. However it can be implied, can it not ? 😊

I do not know about your experiences with other faiths, but lets look at other communities of different faiths. Can you see the differences between our baptised young ones and their infant or children ?

I am forever grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself promises and gives us every Christian His Spirit, His Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truths, so that we can "see" while to others outside, they may look and look but never see. King Solomon desire for wisdom is what we, as Christians, must try to emulate.
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Refer to my reply above
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 01:33 PM)
Q. Is God who is the creator of the universe knows the ending of the story, including the salvation of His elect?
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Well. that is classic meaning of being omniscient and existing outside of time.
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM)
Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
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Is that the same question for the Jews of the OT too when it comes to circumcision? I think that definition is a Protestant invention. Baptism is the regeneration of the soul and washing it of all sin, original and actual, born again in water and Spirit.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 8 2019, 02:15 PM
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM)
Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
*
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Oh my goodness bro., when this was written "When a baby is baptized, how sure are you that that child will continue to be a Christian ?" I am sorry but reading that line alone is setting off Alarm Bells in my head, bro ! If our Lord Jesus Christ is really so important to us, do you not think that it even more important to teach to our young ones why our Lord is so important to us, that they should never leave home without Him ?

I read somewhere that our Jewish brethren takes their faith so seriously that by the time their children reaches a certain age, they would have memorized the Torah and all other customary rules & regulations by heart !

I thank God everyday for a lovely God-daughter, though she's not of my own flesh and blood and I pray to God on how to guide her so that when the time comes she too will form a relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. She has no other choice.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 8 2019, 02:38 PM
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM)
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession  repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Wait
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Adult baptism has the public declaration by the person being baptised yes. For infant baptism, the declaration is done on their behalf by their sponsor (godparent).
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM)
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession  repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Wait
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I think the difference btw a roman Catholic and a protestant is that a protestant have only one book that's the bible, for us the Bible alone is enough and its above all books and tradition. If anything that's contradict with the bible even our own culture we try to deny it.
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 02:26 PM)
Adult baptism has the public declaration by the person being baptised yes. For infant baptism, the declaration is done on their behalf by their sponsor (godparent).
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How does it make sense? Does the parents know for sure the child will be a Christian in the future?
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post Oct 8 2019, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:59 AM)
1) since when Khai92 decided to post here too?

2) concerning the many "new" posters and some of the subject matter, we had better be wise as serpents and innocent as doves

Good day to you all.
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aku baca dia post panjang2, tetapi sampai bahagian membeli insuran, keliru aku dibuatnya rclxub.gif .

dia kata, berdosa jika membeli insuran
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post Oct 8 2019, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:29 PM)
I think the difference btw a roman Catholic and a protestant is that a protestant have only one book that's the bible, for us the Bible alone is enough and its above all books and tradition. If anything that's contradict with the bible even our own culture we try to deny it.
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Which in itself is a problem because of different people having different intepretations.
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post Oct 8 2019, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:30 PM)
How does it make sense? Does the parents know for sure the child will be a Christian in the future?
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Ask God why He also required the Jews to circumcise their infants on the 8th day in the Old Testament in order to be included into the Jewish people.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 8 2019, 03:39 PM
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post Oct 8 2019, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 03:37 PM)
Which in itself is a problem because of different people having different intepretations.
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Bro., while it may seem to be a problem, but I see it as a blessing, that is, if every Christian relied on the Spirit of God, Whom will guide us into all truths and understanding, there wouldn't be much differences in the interpretations since it is always the same Spirit. 😊
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post Oct 8 2019, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 03:38 PM)
Ask God why He also required the Jews to circumcise their infants on the 8th day in the Old Testament in order to be included into the Jewish people.
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Because if you're born jew you're a jew; your gentile Christian parents doesn't guarantee their offspring are Christian. Just saying lol
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post Oct 8 2019, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 05:04 PM)
Bro., while it may seem to be a problem, but I see it as a blessing, that is, if every Christian relied on the Spirit of God, Whom will guide us into all truths and understanding, there wouldn't be much differences in the interpretations since it is always the same Spirit. 😊
*


Agreed here. If one group claim to be the only true Church then it will corrupt easily. Denomination is not necessarily the bad thing.
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post Oct 8 2019, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 05:04 PM)
Bro., while it may seem to be a problem, but I see it as a blessing, that is, if every Christian relied on the Spirit of God, Whom will guide us into all truths and understanding, there wouldn't be much differences in the interpretations since it is always the same Spirit. 😊
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But you wouldn't be sure it would be the same Spirit guiding every person doing the interpretation now would you?
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post Oct 8 2019, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 05:44 PM)
Because if you're born jew you're a jew; your gentile Christian parents doesn't guarantee their offspring are Christian. Just saying lol
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Nope, if they are not circumcised then they aren't considered Jews tongue.gif
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post Oct 8 2019, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 8 2019, 02:51 PM)
aku baca dia post panjang2, tetapi sampai bahagian membeli insuran, keliru aku dibuatnya  rclxub.gif .

dia kata, berdosa jika membeli insuran
*
The Bible says God will bless those who keep His Law/commandments with a good and long life on earth - DEUTERONOMY.28, PROVERBS.1, ROMANS.2:1-12. So, why be fearful about dying young or early, go and buy life insurance.? Better to fear God and keep His Law.
....... For Gentile Christians, they only have to keep the non-burdensome parts of His Law, eg no need to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, keep Sabbath strictly on Sunday, etc - ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4.

Those who buy life insurance or non-mandatory health insurance based on fear may instead be cursed by God for lack of faith in Him, eg will really get cancer and/or really die young/early. Your very fears/worries can turn into reality = the workings of Satan. Christians who say that they buy life insurance for a "just in case" contingency and not because of fear, are showing a lack of faith in God.
....... Faith in God and His Law/Word = boldness or no fear about being afflicted by calamities/curses = no need life insurance.

Job got struck with calamities because he tried to buy prosperity insurance from God, ie insure against his sons' likely future sins/evil-deeds - JOB.1:5 & 3:25. Job feared for nothing and had ignorantly sinned against God because about 400 years later at EXODUS.20:5, God revealed that only the father's sins would befall on the sons, down to the 4th generation.
....... Job kept the faith throughout his suffering and eventually got doubly blessed by God, unlike his wife who probably lost faith and salvation, ie cursed God and died - JOB.2:9.

For the afterlife after death on earth, the Bible says God will bless those who believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, with eternal life in the kingdom of heaven/God = no fear about being sent to hell after death.
.
.
.
P S - Similarly, why be greedy for riches, go and buy lottery or gamble high-stake poker/mahjong against others.? Gambling is a form of stealing indirectly from others because all who gamble have the intention to win a large sum of money from others. Who gamble with the intention to lose.?
....... Did Job and the young Jewish ruler of MATTHEW.19:16-23 got rich by buying lottery or gambling.?

P P S - Notice that life insurance and lottery companies nearly always win or make profits. How come.?
....... From Actuarial Science or long-term statistics, the companies already knows what are the odds against people dying young and for a person striking the multi-million Lotto 1st prize. They collect the pooled insurance premiums and lottery ticket money, then dole out about 80% of the pooled money to the very few 'winning' early death'ers and the 1 Lotto winner(plus other minor prizes) and keep about 20% of the pooled money for themselves as operational expenses and profits(= about 10%). In the meantime, there are many many losers, eg millions of losers in each Lotto draw.


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post Oct 8 2019, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 06:14 PM)
Nope, if they are not circumcised then they aren't considered Jews tongue.gif
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But in the NT Paul said it doesn't matter anymore tongue.gif
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 8 2019, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 8 2019, 06:27 PM)
The Bible says God will bless those who keep His Law/commandments with a good and long life on earth - DEUTERONOMY.28, PROVERBS.1, ROMANS.2:1-12. So, why be fearful  about dying young or early, go and buy life insurance.? Better to fear God and keep His Law.
....... For Gentile Christians, they only have to keep the non-burdensome parts of His Law, eg no need to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, keep Sabbath strictly on Sunday, etc - ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4.

Those who buy life insurance or non-mandatory health insurance based on fear may instead be cursed by God for lack of faith in Him, eg will really get cancer and/or really die young/early. Your very fears/worries can turn into reality = the workings of Satan. Christians who say that they buy life insurance for a "just in case" contingency and not because of fear, are showing a lack of faith in God.
....... Faith in God and His Law/Word = boldness or no fear about being afflicted by calamities/curses = no need life insurance.

- Notice that life insurance and lottery companies nearly always win or make profits. How come.?
....... From Actuarial Science or long-term statistics, the companies already knows what are the odds against people dying young and for a person striking the multi-million Lotto 1st prize. They collect the pooled insurance premiums and lottery ticket money, then dole out about 80% of the pooled money to the very few  'winning' early death'ers and the 1 Lotto winner(plus other minor prizes) and keep about 20% of the pooled money for themselves as operational expenses and profits(= about 10%). In the meantime, there are many many losers, eg millions of losers in each Lotto draw.

*
ok, i call up my agent tomorrow to cancel my policy
Roman Catholic
post Oct 8 2019, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 8 2019, 06:13 PM)
But you wouldn't be sure it would be the same Spirit guiding every person doing the interpretation now would you?
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You are right bro., that is why Scripture teaches us further to test the spirit. The good thing is, as sheep we can only recognize the voice of our Good Shepherd and any other teaching that is contrary to the teaching of our Master's teaching, will warn us immediately that somethin ain't right. Therefore further investigation is required if one is to proceed.
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post Oct 8 2019, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 8 2019, 07:37 PM)
ok, i call up my agent tomorrow to cancel my policy
*
.
1JOHN.5:16-17 (NKJV) = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1CORINTHIANS.11:30-32 = 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
_______ _______

It is very grave sins/law-breaking that will lead to death, either shortly or longly, eg sexual immorality like LGBTQ-sex, consulting witches/shamans to put love charms or hexes upon others(DEUT.18:9-14 = cursed with madness, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc), murder, etc. This is similar to the death penalty or life imprisonment imposed by the government courts for high/serious crimes.

Those who break God's Law by consulting horoscope, psychics, tarot-cards, fortune-tellers, ouija-boards, etc(= prophets/agents of Satan) will be afflicted lesser with speech and/or hearing, eg hard of hearing, deafness, tinnitus, tongue-tied, stuttering, etc .(MARK.7:32)

Besides the 10 Commandments, the above are some of the non-burdensome laws/commandments of God which every Christian should keep, in order not to be cursed by God with a sad and short life on earth.

Wrt the burdensome laws/commandments of God, Gentile Christians are at liberty to not keep or keep them, eg circumcision, kosher/clean foods, Sabbath Sunday, etc.
....... The law of circumcision upon Jewish male babies was good. It was a memorial of the miraculous covenant when God promised Abraham thousands and thousands of Jewish seeds/descendants when he was still childless. It also made circumcised Jewish men less prone to sexual immorality since sexual intercourse produced less arousal in the forehead of their penis. Hence uncircumcised China and India have been very over-populated and quite sexually-immoral.
....... Bear in mind that if a Gentile Christian man elect to get circumcised, he will be in pain and become physically incapacitated for about 1 month = requires nursing care(GENESIS.34:25). At this time, if he somehow get aroused and erected, he will be like in hell on earth. So, it is better for him to remain uncircumcised and instead just circumcise his heart(ROMANS.2:29) from sexual immorality by the power of Holy Spirit of God through the Word of God(EPH.6:16-17).

.
The law at LEVITICUS.10:9 forbid the drinking of wine or any other intoxicating drink/substance by Jewish priests, and by extension this law applies to Christians, who are also the priests of God.

But what if a male adult addict becomes a Gentile Christian, eg alcoholic, chain-smoker, drug-addict, prescription-pill-addict like Michael Jackson, etc.? Should he be made to abstain/stop taking the substance immediately.? Such a requirement or compulsion or forcing would be too burdensome for him because he will suffer terrible withdrawal symptoms which may kill him immediately, eg Delirium Tremens for alcoholics, stroke for drug addicts, etc. So, he should be allowed to continue with his addiction for the rest of his not very long and expensive life on earth, but in moderation, so as to stave off the horrible withdrawal symptoms and not cause trouble to others while intoxicated. Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs are expensive. If he gets miraculously healed by God of his addiction, all the better. Sometimes, what is done is done or we can't turn back the clock.
....... Why should the Church allow him to remain an addict.? = because for such a Gentile Christian addict, eternal life in heaven through God's Son trumps a long life on earth through God's Law.

So, there are many subtleties in the non-burdensome laws of God. We should delve deeper into them, so as not to end up like the ignorant Gentile Christians of 1COR.11:30 who suffered for making wrong judgments in their deeds.

.
In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
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post Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM

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I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.

Even if they are non-Christians, the societal norm is that you have a responsibility to take care of them. By doing so, you demonstrate a good testimony to non-Christians that a Christian is a person of good character and a good member of society, and that is also a form of missionary work. (There is also Biblical support for this.)

Don't think that Jesus has no idea about finance, or that he doesn't care about family. We are commanded to be fruitful in both areas, to spend our money on preaching the Word (growing the Church externally, through missionary work), to take care of current Church members and to multiply (growing the Church internally).

Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

No, we cannot only depend on "faith" to take care of the financial needs. That kind of faith is testing God. God never intended us to sit back, hold out our hands, ask for money to drop from the sky and call that a "miraculous blessing". We are supposed to do our best and trust God to provide by turning our best efforts into something beneficial. THAT is practical application of faith.

Life insurance provides your wife and children with the resources they need to grow up to be useful members of the Church. If you don't provide, someone else has to. Probably the Church itself, since it is one of the Church's responsibilities to care for its members. So what have you really accomplished by avoiding life insurance, other than to transfer your burden to other Christians?

This isn't prosperity gospel, BTW. Prosperity gospel focuses on enriching yourself. This is about being good stewards of the resources which belongs to God, which is not just the Church offerings but also ourselves, our money, time, and effort.

Nor am I promoting any investment-linked insurance products. Investment-linked products are generally very poor financial investments.

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Oct 9 2019, 06:53 AM
thomasthai
post Oct 9 2019, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 8 2019, 06:27 PM)
[i] The Bible says God will bless those who keep His Law/commandments with a good and long life on earth - DEUTERONOMY.28, PROVERBS.1, ROMANS.2:1-12.
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11 of the 12 apostles were martyred rather early in their lives.
Most of them had very little to live on when they were expanding the churches.

Are you implying that the apostles did not keep the commandments of God? hmm.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM)
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.

Even if they are non-Christians, the societal norm is that you have a responsibility to take care of them. By doing so, you demonstrate a good testimony to non-Christians that a Christian is a person of good character and a good member of society, and that is also a form of missionary work. (There is also Biblical support for this.)

Don't think that Jesus has no idea about finance, or that he doesn't care about family. We are commanded to be fruitful in both areas, to spend our money on preaching the Word (growing the Church externally, through missionary work), to take care of current Church members and to multiply (growing the Church internally).

Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

No, we cannot only depend on "faith" to take care of the financial needs. That kind of faith is testing God. God never intended us to sit back, hold out our hands, ask for money to drop from the sky and call that a "miraculous blessing". We are supposed to do our best and trust God to provide by turning our best efforts into something beneficial. THAT is practical application of faith.

Life insurance provides your wife and children with the resources they need to grow up to be useful members of the Church. If you don't provide, someone else has to. Probably the Church itself, since it is one of the Church's responsibilities to care for its members. So what have you really accomplished by avoiding life insurance, other than to transfer your burden to other Christians?

This isn't prosperity gospel, BTW. Prosperity gospel focuses on enriching yourself. This is about being good stewards of the resources which belongs to God, which is not just the Church offerings but also ourselves, our money, time, and effort.

Nor am I promoting any investment-linked insurance products. Investment-linked products are generally very poor financial investments.
*
Nothing wrong with buying life insurance, it's not a sin anyway.
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post Oct 9 2019, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 06:50 PM)
But in the NT Paul said it doesn't matter anymore tongue.gif
*
In the NT, baptism has replaced circumcision for the People of God.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:32 AM

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Yeeck, can you lessen your this fighting in support of catholic doctrine in here?
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:32 AM)
Yeeck, can you lessen your this fighting in support of catholic doctrine in here?
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Only when people don't post misinformation on Catholic doctrine here. Or if people ask, I will answer. Ask and you shall receive....lol

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:34 AM)
Only when people don't post misinformation on Catholic doctrine here.
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There will always be disagreement on catholic doctrine in this thread mainly because it's protestant.


yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM)
There will always be disagreement on catholic doctrine in this thread mainly because it's protestant.
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Not only with Catholic doctrine but also with your doctrine, I can see.
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post Oct 9 2019, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:34 AM)
Only when people don't post misinformation on Catholic doctrine here. Or if people ask, I will answer. Ask and you shall receive....lol
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malaysia is not wise and calm enough to be discuss something which different from them.

just like some race problem here.... puke.gif
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post Oct 9 2019, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:36 AM)
Not only with Catholic doctrine but also with your doctrine, I can see.
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We have many groups in here, it is expected to have disagreement but that is between protestant's argument.

What I don't want are the obvious gap of doctrine between Catholics and Protestant

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post Oct 9 2019, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:54 AM)
We have many groups in here, it is expected to have disagreement but that is between protestant's argument.

What I don't want are the obvious gap of doctrine between Catholics and Protestant
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You mean prosperity gospel, hyper-grace are not obvious gaps? Fine..
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post Oct 9 2019, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 11:30 AM)
You mean prosperity gospel, hyper-grace are not obvious gaps? Fine..
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I find it weird that people like to put their own words into my mouth, something I don't teach or say.

problem has always been on comprehension.

They insist in their own assumptions.

I can test this on you and see whether you are going to put your words into my mouth



--------------------------------------------------


There is no such thing as prosperity gospel, the gospel has always been on the grace of Christ.

However there is prosperity as a result of the gospel and the word prosperity basically mean to thrive and it's not about money.

the word abundance of grace is in the bible and is legit. Hyper is the word derived from the greek hooper which is the same meaning.


---------------------------------------------------


Go ahead, what are you going to say?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 11:38 AM
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 11:33 AM)
I find it weird that people like to put their own words into my mouth, something I don't teach or say.

problem has always been on comprehension.

They insist in their own assumptions.

I can test this on you and see whether you are going to put your words into my mouth
--------------------------------------------------
There is no such thing as prosperity gospel, the gospel has always been on the grace of Christ.

However there is prosperity as a result of the gospel and the word prosperity basically mean to thrive and it's not about money.

the word abundance of grace is in the bible and is legit. Hyper is the word derived from the greek hooper which is the same meaning.
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Go ahead, what are you going to say?
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That's between you and the other Protestants, I won't interfere. Just giving an example. Another thing I recalled being different between you and the rest are the 10 Commandments. What is your position on that?
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 11:59 AM)
That's between you and the other Protestants, I won't interfere. Just giving an example. Another thing I recalled being different between you and the rest are the 10 Commandments. What is your position on that?
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not my position but the Bible's


2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

With that being said, in the new covenant, we look to Christ and no longer the law. Why? as this verse explains.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 12:03 PM)
not my position but the Bible's
2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

With that being said, in the new covenant, we look to Christ and no longer the law. Why? as this verse explains.
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But others will point to ‘If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’ (Matt. 19:17).
thomasthai
post Oct 9 2019, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:18 PM)
But others will point to ‘If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’  (Matt. 19:17).
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That's a very interesting account that I had been studying just recently.

Let me prepare an answer for that for the benefit of everyone.
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:30 PM

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the rich ruler
QUOTE
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?  No one is  good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’  ‘Honor your father and  your  mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’  ” The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:16‭-‬30 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.19.16-30.NKJV
Immediately, there are 2 big questions that we need to consider here.

1) Is Jesus denying His deity here when He said, 'Why do you call me good?

2) Did Jesus say we are saved by keeping the 10 commandments here?

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Oct 9 2019, 12:32 PM
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:37 PM

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And maybe another:

"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor.6

But does it mean those who commit such acts will never be forgiven if they repent and ask God for forgiveness? Of course not!

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 12:38 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Oct 9 2019, 07:39 AM)
11 of the 12 apostles were martyred rather early in their lives.
Most of them had very little to live on when they were expanding the churches.

Are you implying that the apostles did not keep the commandments of God? hmm.gif
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True. Even the apostles' leader, Jesus Christ, was martyred/crucified early in His life at the age of 33, in order to gift salvation from hell to all believers in the world.
....... Remember, this had happened exclusively during the era of the New Covenant of Faith in the 1st century AD, ie not in general and not to all Christians forthwith. Similarly for the many miracles, signs and wonders wrought by His 12 apostles and 108 disciples, ie not by just any ordinary Christian forthwith.


MATTHEW.10:16-26 & 38-39 (NKJV) = Persecutions Are Coming

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house [g]Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26 Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. ...
.

38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

QUOTE
....... Why should the Church allow him to remain an addict.? = because for such a Gentile Christian addict, eternal life in heaven through God's Son trumps a long life on earth through God's Law.

Like I said before, for people like the apostles and Gentile Christians who were addicts(= alcoholics, chain-smokers, drug-addicts, etc), eternal life in the kingdom of heaven through faith in Jesus Christ trumps a long life on earth through the keeping of the Law. For most other Christians, they can inherit both blessings from God, ie a good and long life on earth through the keeping of His Law and eternal life in the kingdom of heaven through faith in Jesus Christ.
...... This does not imply or equate to the apostles and GC addicts intentionally did not keep the Law/commandments/Word. In fact, the apostles kept the specific Word of God/Jesus for them, ie to willingly lose their young lives for His name sake or for their faith in Jesus Christ when persecuted by the powerful Jewish Temple rulers, who included Saul of Tarsus the persecutor of Christians before his conversion by Jesus at ACTS.9:5 & 15 to apostle Paul.

A similar times of persecution of Christians by the powerful governments of the world will be coming soon just before the 2nd Advent of the Lord/God Jesus Christ to earth when many young Christians will have to suffer martyrdom for their faith, like what happened to the apostles in the 1st century AD. How.? = most likely the world governments will require everyone to receive computer chip implants to buy or sell stuffs = receive the mark of the beast - REV.13:11-18 & 14:9-11. Those who refuse, eg Christians, will be persecuted/prosecuted/martyred or left to starve to death.
....... Even today, US and UK Christians are beginning to suffer persecution/prosecution by the powerful liberals-dominated governments of the world = the early pangs, eg conservative US Christian business owners who refused to participate or provide services or products to same-sex weddings.

What happened to the Jews who persecuted and martyred the apostles.? As per ROMANS.12:19-21, the unbelieving Jews were massacred and their Holy Temple in Jerusalem were destroyed by the even more powerful Roman Army in 70AD for mounting armed rebellion - the 1st Jewish-Roman Wars. This had been prophesied by Jesus Christ at LUKE.21:20 and MATTHEW.24:3 & 15-16.

Similarly, the Lord/God Jesus Christ will be coming down to earth for the 2nd time to destroy all the leftover or remaining unbelieving persecutors/murderers and this rotten earth after rapturing/resurrecting His people in the clouds - 1THESS.4:16, REV.6 & 7 & 21:1.
...... Thereafter, believers will spend 1,000 years or a Millennium on a new clean earth with their Lord/God Jesus Christ - REV.20:4, ISA.2:4 & 11:6 & 65:25, MICAH.4:1.

yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM

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And another:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM

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1) First of all, Jesus did not say He is NOT good, and He did Not say He is not God.

He was merely questioning the man, what is his standard of good.

2) The 2nd part of the answer from Jesus is the answer to what 'good' standard is required for salvation.

The man thought that he had already fulfilled all the commandments to have eternal life, but Jesus rebuked him for not seeing that he has already put his wealth before God, (the first and most important commandment), and refusing to follow Him.

The good standard here is to see you have fallen short of the required law and put your faith in Christ and follow Him.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM)
1) First of all, Jesus did not say He is NOT good, and He did Not say He is not God.

He was merely questioning the man, what is his standard of good.

2) The 2nd part of the answer from Jesus is the answer to what 'good' standard is required for salvation.

The man thought that he had already fulfilled all the commandments to have eternal life, but Jesus rebuked him for not seeing that he has already put his wealth before God, (the first and most important commandment), and refusing to follow Him.

The good standard here is to see you have fallen short of the required law and put your faith in Christ and follow Him.
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Nothing to disagree with you here.
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 9 2019, 12:40 PM)
True. Even the apostles' leader, Jesus Christ, was martyred/crucified early in His life at the age of 33,  in order to gift salvation from hell to all believers in the world.
....... Remember, this had happened exclusively during the era of the New Covenant of Faith in the 1st century AD, ie not in general and not to all Christians forthwith. Similarly for the many miracles, signs and wonders wrought by His 12 apostles and 108 disciples, ie not by just any ordinary Christian forthwith.


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Don't know what's the connection of all the bible verses with what I'm asking you.

You are saying the 1st century Christians being persecuted is the norm, but subsequently all Christians who obey the commandments will have a long and healthy life?
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:46 PM)
Nothing to disagree with you here.
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Just trying to say that Jesus did not say keeping the 10 commandments will get you saved.
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:30 AM)
In the NT, baptism has replaced circumcision for the People of God.
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Lel, circumcision is not needed coz Christ is here. Read romans.
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:36 AM)
Not only with Catholic doctrine but also with your doctrine, I can see.
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There's a Catholic group, you can find your favor there. Ps: I'm not even interested to discuss there coz I'm not a roman Catholic.
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post Oct 9 2019, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Oct 9 2019, 12:52 PM)
Just trying to say that Jesus did not say keeping the 10 commandments will get you saved.
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Of course, but saying just believe but ignore the commandments will not get you saved either. For even the demons believe.
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post Oct 9 2019, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:18 PM)
But others will point to ‘If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’  (Matt. 19:17).
*
So that you know, you cannot come to God via God's OT commandment.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:25
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
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post Oct 9 2019, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM)
And another:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
*
Because Only Jesus Christ alone qualify to fulfill it.


It's weird that opponent of this always do not understand this.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 12:55 PM)
Lel, circumcision is not needed coz Christ is here. Read romans.
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Yup, but baptism has replaced circumcision in the New Testament.
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post Oct 9 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 01:04 PM)
Because Only Jesus Christ alone qualify to fulfill it.
It's weird that opponent of this always do not understand this.
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True, no one denies only Christ can fulfill all. But note well, certain things not fulfilled yet such as His Second Coming. Heaven and earth has not passed away yet.
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post Oct 9 2019, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 01:08 PM)
True, no one denies only Christ can fulfill all. But note well, certain things not fulfilled yet such as His Second Coming. Heaven and earth has not passed away yet.
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but the law in effect has been fulfilled by Christ and it's finished.

The cross is the evidence.

His 2nd coming does not mean the law is still in effect for believers.

because if it still is, Christ died for nothing.
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post Oct 9 2019, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM)
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.

Even if they are non-Christians, the societal norm is that you have a responsibility to take care of them. By doing so, you demonstrate a good testimony to non-Christians that a Christian is a person of good character and a good member of society, and that is also a form of missionary work. (There is also Biblical support for this.)

Don't think that Jesus has no idea about finance, or that he doesn't care about family. We are commanded to be fruitful in both areas, to spend our money on preaching the Word (growing the Church externally, through missionary work), to take care of current Church members and to multiply (growing the Church internally).

Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

No, we cannot only depend on "faith" to take care of the financial needs. That kind of faith is testing God. God never intended us to sit back, hold out our hands, ask for money to drop from the sky and call that a "miraculous blessing". We are supposed to do our best and trust God to provide by turning our best efforts into something beneficial. THAT is practical application of faith.

Life insurance provides your wife and children with the resources they need to grow up to be useful members of the Church. If you don't provide, someone else has to. Probably the Church itself, since it is one of the Church's responsibilities to care for its members. So what have you really accomplished by avoiding life insurance, other than to transfer your burden to other Christians?

This isn't prosperity gospel, BTW. Prosperity gospel focuses on enriching yourself. This is about being good stewards of the resources which belongs to God, which is not just the Church offerings but also ourselves, our money, time, and effort.

Nor am I promoting any investment-linked insurance products. Investment-linked products are generally very poor financial investments.
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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM)
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.
*
Taking care of the family's earthly needs, eg wife and kids, is normally not needed if a person dies at a ripe old age of > 70 years old, eg the kids are already working adults and the dead person has a sizable retirement fund like his EPF, personal savings, etc. Your idea for buying life insurance to take care of the family's earthly needs is for when the person dies young at the early age of < 40 years old, eg his kids are still schooling and the dead person has no sizable retirement fund like EPF, personal savings, etc.
....... So, your argument for buying life insurance is naught or baseless as it goes against trusting in God by keeping His Law/Word, in order to be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth. You either trust God or trust Mammon = you cannot trust both at the same time.


MATTHEW.6:24-34 (NKJV) = You Cannot Serve God and Riches

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Do Not Worry

25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
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QUOTE
Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

Tithing or financially supporting the work of the Church is normally not sourced from life insurance payouts when the insured Christians died young or early. It is normally sourced from the Christians' monthly income or salary. Tithing and buying life insurance are 2 different and separate matters.
....... Like I said before, Christians should tithe about 3% of their income(= not 10%) to support the work of their Church, so as not to be financially burdened since they also have to pay about 10% income tax to their governments or Caesar. Please go to Page 1 of this thread for more of my views about tithing.

It is OK for Christians to buy government-mandated insurance like car insurance and health insurance(eg Obamacare).

Btw, do you or your relatives sell insurance.? Some Christians go to Church mainly to sell insurance, real estate, cars or other investment products/services like Unit Trust Funds, Mutual Funds, MLM, Direct Selling(Amway, Cosway, Tupperware, Hai-O, etc).
....... Some Christians go to Church mainly to marry a good and faithful wife(= she won't commit adultery against him). Some Christians go to Church mainly to socialize. Etc.


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 10:53 PM
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 01:11 PM)
but the law in effect has been fulfilled by Christ and it's finished.

The cross is the evidence.

His 2nd coming does not mean the law is still in effect for believers.

because if it still is, Christ died for nothing.
*
This is where you differ with the rest. For you all the Law has been fulfilled and finished, not differentiating between ceremonial and moral laws. I can go in further details how the Catholic position is more sensible and in harmony with Scripture, while yours is making verses of Scripture seems like contradicting one another.

The Catholic truth is summed up in two simple and essential truths. 1) By our own selves, we indeed cannot fulfil the Commandments. Jesus Christ said,"Without Me, you can do nothing" (Jn 15:5). 2) With the grace of Jesus Christ, we CAN and must fulfil the Commandments. In the very same passage, "I am the vine, you are the branches, he that abideth in me and I in him, the same beareth much fruit." "In this is my Father glorified, that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples (Jn 15:8). And St Paul says "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13).

When St Paul says "we are not under the Law", not as if we are allowed to break the Law like committing idolatry, adultery, etc, but by the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we are empowered to fulfill the Law out of love, thus the Law is not a burden for those who love God, but is indeed a burden for those who rejects Christ and does not have the grace to obey the Law. "What then, shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under grace? God forbid!"

Next, how to obtain grace? By prayer and the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Certainly the first grace is given without being asked, i.e. the grace to pray. If you say I expect all graces from Christ and need not lift a finger, you are greatly deceiving yourself, less we hear on our judgement from the mouth of Our Lord "Thou wicked and slothful servant!, ...and the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness!" (Mt 25: 26, 30).
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 01:59 PM)
This is where you differ with the rest. For you all the Law has been fulfilled and finished, not differentiating between ceremonial and moral laws. I can go in further details how the Catholic position is more sensible and in harmony with Scripture, while yours is making verses of Scripture seems like contradicting one another.

The Catholic truth is summed up in two simple and essential truths. 1) By our own selves, we indeed cannot fulfil the Commandments. Jesus Christ said,"Without Me, you can do nothing" (Jn 15:5). 2) With the grace of Jesus Christ, we CAN and must fulfil the Commandments. In the very same passage, "I am the vine, you are the branches, he that abideth in me and I in him, the same beareth much fruit." "In this is my Father glorified, that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples (Jn 15:8). And St Paul says "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13).

When St Paul says "we are not under the Law", not as if we are allowed to break the Law like committing idolatry, adultery, etc, but by the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we are empowered to fulfill the Law out of love, thus the Law is not a burden for those who love God, but is indeed a burden for those who rejects Christ and does not have the grace to obey the Law. "What then, shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under grace? God forbid!"

Next, how to obtain grace? By prayer and the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Certainly the first grace is given without being asked, i.e. the grace to pray. If you say I expect all graces from Christ and need not lift a finger, you are greatly deceiving yourself, less we hear on our judgement from the mouth of Our Lord "Thou wicked and slothful servant!, ...and the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness!" (Mt 25: 26, 30).
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2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV)

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,


The 10 commandments are written and engraved on stones, it's called a ministry of death.

Try and explain that. What is this ministry of death?

Death, define it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 02:04 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 9 2019, 01:55 PM)
....... So, your argument for buying life insurance is naught or baseless as it goes against trusting in God by keeping His Law/Word, in order to be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth. You either trust God or trust Mammon = you cannot trust both at the same time.
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That is not right.
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 01:06 PM)
Yup, but baptism has replaced circumcision in the New Testament.
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 02:03 PM)
2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV)

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
The 10 commandments are written and engraved on stones, it's called a ministry of death.

Try and explain that. What is this ministry of death?

Death, define it.
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Now if the ministration of death: Paul means the former law, which by giving them a greater knowledge, and not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death, was notwithstanding glorious, accompanied with miracles on Mount Sinai, and so that the Israelites, when Moses came down from the mountain, could not bear the glory of his countenance, which he was forced to cover with a veil, when he spoke to them. Shall not the ministration of the Spirit in the new law, which worketh our sanctification and salvation, abound with much greater glory?

Don't forget the moral standard in the New Testament is higher than that of the Old. "You have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Mt 5:27).
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:58 PM)
Of course, but saying just believe but ignore the commandments will not get you saved either. For even the demons believe.
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Saved is by the blood of Christ, by faith. What's is faith? Faith is the ability to believe, given by God. By faith we can fulfill the commandment because Christ fulfilled it already.

You sounds like a non perfect Christian unless he's perfect in this life he's not saved. That's not justification by faith, that's perfectionism which we will never attain in this life, even great spiritual being still can sins. But since we are Christian we should be able to show good fruits or change in our life. But the good deeds does not justify us. It is because by faith through Christ we can have those good deeds aka fruits.
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:17 PM)
Now if the ministration of death: Paul means the former law, which by giving them a greater knowledge, and not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death, was notwithstanding glorious, accompanied with miracles on Mount Sinai, and so that the Israelites, when Moses came down from the mountain, could not bear the glory of his countenance, which he was forced to cover with a veil, when he spoke to them. Shall not the ministration of the Spirit in the new law, which worketh our sanctification and salvation, abound with much greater glory?

Don't forget the moral standard in the New Testament is higher than that of the Old. "You have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Mt 5:27).
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You're not answering my question.

Why look to death?
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:18 PM)
Saved is by the blood of Christ, by faith. What's is faith? Faith is the ability to believe, given by God. By faith we can fulfill the commandment because Christ fulfilled it already.

You sounds like a non perfect Christian unless he's perfect in this life he's not saved. That's not justification by faith, that's perfectionism which we will never attain in this life, even great spiritual being still can sins. But since we are Christian we should be able to show good fruits or change in our life. But the good deeds does not justify us. It is because by faith through Christ we can have those good deeds aka fruits.
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Nope. Your position is not the same as UW's. UW is implying the 10 Commandments can be completely ignored because it comes under the OT.

And no again to your second part. A Christian's life in this world is a constant warfare. I don't deny there will be times when one will fall, but with grace, prayer and the sacraments, one can rise again. "Fight the good fight"
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 02:19 PM)
You're not answering my question.

Why look to death?
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What do you mean look to death? The post above has answered you.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 02:29 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:11 PM)
So you are a Baptist eh?
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:27 PM)
Nope. Your position is not the same as UW's. UW is implying the 10 Commandments can be completely ignored because it comes under the OT.

And no again to your second part. A Christian's life in this world is a constant warfare. I don't deny there will be times when one will fall, but with grace, prayer and the sacraments, one can rise again. "Fight the good fight"
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I'm not siding which one, I just state what it means by justification by faith, it is not like once you believed you can sin or still be saved, that should not be a Christian's attitude.

A roman Catholic can also be a calvinists? As I know many rc didn't read their bible
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:31 PM)
So you are a Baptist eh?
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I'm a protestant Christian
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:32 PM)
I'm not siding which one, I just state what it means by justification by faith, it is not like once you believed you can sin or still be saved, that should not be a Christian's attitude.

A roman Catholic can also be a calvinists? As I know many rc didn't read their bible
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I don't get your second question. What is the relationship between reading bible and being Calvinist?
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:33 PM)
I'm a protestant Christian
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Of the Baptist flavour, I guess. biggrin.gif
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post Oct 9 2019, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:46 PM)
I don't get your second question. What is the relationship between reading bible and being Calvinist?
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Why don't you ask there is a reformation. Rc and protestant view of the doctrine is different. Eg. we don't pray to the St, we don't have pope etc..
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:47 PM)
Of the Baptist flavour, I guess.  biggrin.gif
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When we discuss other non baptisms doctrine you will say I'm of Presbyterian.
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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:52 PM)
Why don't you ask there is a reformation. Rc and protestant view of the doctrine is different. Eg. we don't pray to the St, we don't have pope etc..
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Of course I know that. One thing at a time. The topic at hand now are the 10 Commandments.
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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 02:53 PM)
When we discuss other non baptisms doctrine you will say I'm of Presbyterian.
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Because only Baptists or their variants insists on adult baptism only and not infant baptism, which other protestant groups accept.
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:28 PM)
What do you mean look to death? The post above has answered you.
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No it doesn't, you insist on looking to the 10 commandments and yet what you posted.

The former law = not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death.

Why do still look to the law? That is my question.

There is no grace there and it's not occasion death my friend, it is a MINISTRY OF DEATH.

Do you understand the meaning of death here?

Yes Christ brought the law higher in book of Matthew. If nobody could really fulfill the OT law, what makes you think you're able to fulfill this higher law in OT?

Do you understand Romans 5:20?

Romans 5:20 (KV) -
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Why do you want to keep looking to the OT law that was design to increase offense? smile.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 03:13 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:27 PM)
Nope. Your position is not the same as UW's. UW is implying the 10 Commandments can be completely ignored because it comes under the OT.

And no again to your second part. A Christian's life in this world is a constant warfare. I don't deny there will be times when one will fall, but with grace, prayer and the sacraments, one can rise again. "Fight the good fight"
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No, that is not right, the full context = Fight the good fight of "FAITH".

Meaning keep on believing in what Christ did. That is the meaning of Christ saving us.

You are in essence purporting, one has to keep fighting to save himself.

It's either you save yourself or Christ save you, the title savior can only be on either one.

Not unless you're implying you and Christ are conferred the title of savior of man.

No right?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 03:19 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:03 PM)
Why do still look to the law? That is my question.

There is no grace there and it's not occasion death my friend, it is a MINISTRY OF DEATH.

Yes Christ brought the law higher in book of Matthew. If nobody could really fulfill the OT law, what makes you think you're able to fulfill this higher law in OT?

Do you understand Romans 5:20?

Romans 5:20 (KV) -
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Why do you want to keep looking to the OT law that was design to increase offense? smile.gif
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What a perverse misinterpretation of St Paul that you have! Are you saying God is the cause of sin?

Not that the law was designed for that end; but the word that, as in many other places, so here expresses only the consequence that followed, when sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, and the precepts given. Not as if the law were given purposely for sin to abound (that itself is a blasphemy against God the source of all goodness); but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin. St Paul does not say that grace abounded in every place where iniquity had abounded; but he says indefinitely where, that is, in many places where sin abounded, grace hath abounded also.

If you read what was written above, Scripture has answered you. "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me".
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:24 PM)
What a perverse misinterpretation of St Paul that you have! Are you saying God is the cause of sin?

Not that the law was designed for that end; but the word that, as in many other places, so here expresses only the consequence that followed, when sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, and the precepts given. Not as if the law were given purposely for sin to abound (that itself is a blasphemy against God the source of all goodness); but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin. St Paul does not say that grace abounded in every place where iniquity had abounded; but he says indefinitely where, that is, in many places where sin abounded, grace hath abounded also.

If you read what was written above, Scripture has answered you. "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me".
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Erm, that is not what the scripture says.

It didn't say the sinner becomes more guilty, it says the the law entered in that the offense might abound.

Read it properly.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:12 PM)
No, that is not right, the full context = Fight the good fight of "FAITH".

Meaning keep on believing in what Christ did. That is the meaning of Christ saving us.

You are in essence purporting, one has to keep fighting to save himself.

It's either you save yourself or Christ save you, the title savior can only be on either one.

Not unless you're implying you and Christ are conferred the title of savior of man.

No right?
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That is erroneous. Christ is the saviour, and He grants us the initial grace, but subsequently we still have to cooperate. If it's only the mental assent of believing, even the demons believe.

If that's the case you are following Calvin's idea of predestination, without any cooperation from mankind.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:26 PM)
Erm, that is not what the scripture says.

It didn't say the sinner becomes more guilty, it says the the law entered in that the offense might abound.

Read it properly.
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That's what happens when one relies on one's own judgement and interpretation of Scripture, sola scriptura, each person interpreting Scripture to their own destruction. Again, if I follow your reasoning, other parts of Scripture will be contradicted.
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:31 PM)
That is erroneous. Christ is the saviour, and He grants us the initial grace, but subsequently we still have to cooperate. If it's only the mental assent of believing, even the demons believe.

If that's the case you are following Calvin's idea of predestination, without any cooperation from mankind.
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Where do you bank your hope in?

In Christ or in yourself? Or in both?
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:38 PM)
Where do you bank your hope in?

In Christ or in yourself? Or in both?
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In Christ of course. I'm still waiting to see how you harmonize your interpretations with the other verses.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 03:40 PM
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post Oct 9 2019, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:33 PM)
That's what happens when one relies on one's own judgement and interpretation of Scripture, sola scriptura, each person interpreting Scripture to their own destruction. Again, if I follow your reasoning, other parts of Scripture will be contradicted.
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It's not my reasoning, it is scripture


New King James Version
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,


It didn't say sinner is more aware of his sin. The word sinner is not there. but the word offense or transgress is there.

And you can tell me about own judgement and own interpretation of scripture? it's on you bro.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:41 PM)
It's not my reasoning, it is scripture
New King James Version
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
It didn't say sinner is more aware of his sin. The word sinner is not there. but the word offense or transgress is there.

And you can tell me about own judgement and own interpretation of scripture? it's on you bro.
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To offend or to transgress is the same meaning as to sin. What are you trying to say?

One is not culpable of sin if one is ignorant of the law.

Again, I'm still waiting.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM)
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.

Even if they are non-Christians, the societal norm is that you have a responsibility to take care of them. By doing so, you demonstrate a good testimony to non-Christians that a Christian is a person of good character and a good member of society, and that is also a form of missionary work. (There is also Biblical support for this.)

Don't think that Jesus has no idea about finance, or that he doesn't care about family. We are commanded to be fruitful in both areas, to spend our money on preaching the Word (growing the Church externally, through missionary work), to take care of current Church members and to multiply (growing the Church internally).

Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

No, we cannot only depend on "faith" to take care of the financial needs. That kind of faith is testing God. God never intended us to sit back, hold out our hands, ask for money to drop from the sky and call that a "miraculous blessing". We are supposed to do our best and trust God to provide by turning our best efforts into something beneficial. THAT is practical application of faith.

Life insurance provides your wife and children with the resources they need to grow up to be useful members of the Church. If you don't provide, someone else has to. Probably the Church itself, since it is one of the Church's responsibilities to care for its members. So what have you really accomplished by avoiding life insurance, other than to transfer your burden to other Christians?

This isn't prosperity gospel, BTW. Prosperity gospel focuses on enriching yourself. This is about being good stewards of the resources which belongs to God, which is not just the Church offerings but also ourselves, our money, time, and effort.

Nor am I promoting any investment-linked insurance products. Investment-linked products are generally very poor financial investments.
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You supposedly write an entire post on insurance yet never mentioned anything about insurance but make a lot of assumptions on people who denounce insurance. Why dun you concentrate on the points that anti insurance people make instead of just making assumptions.

First of all, the Bible never ever mention anything about insurance or even the concept of insurance. In fact, the Bible never even said that one should take care of the family needs after that person passed away especially if that person is a Christian. That duty belongs to God Himself. You see, if God decides the time to take someone away, dun you think it's Gods responsibility to ensure that that person's business is being taken care of. You see, for all your talk about faith. Well, if say I am really a child of God, shouldn't one have faith that God will only take me away at an opportune time whereby my death will not be a burden upon my family and that God will take care of my family after that. After all, the Bible verse 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Only unbelievers get so "worried" that they can die anytime and become a burden to their left behind family. If one really have faith, they understand that God has everything planned out, even their very death and that He already has everything taken care of. Including taking care of their family after he dies.

However the Bible does speak about inheritance which is something that can be provided to the family once that person leaves.
22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.
But then if you spend a good portion of your income on insurance, how much money do you have for your inheritance. Most people who buys life insurance probably spends 10-20 percent of their income on insurance. So how much of their money do they have left to give to their immediate family? And the funny thing is, the insurance money is never even guaranteed. There is a time period whereby the insurance company has to investigate a person's death to ensure that it's consistent with the terms and conditions of the policy and if they find any inconsistencies, the policy is voided immediately. You see, for all of the marketing that they give, insurance companies are not there to help you. There is always terms and conditions inside which can prevent the insurance companies from paying out. And they will scrutinized those terms and policy very carefully to find out ways of not paying out to you. So in the end you do not have any inheritance money and insurance money left.

Of course verses pertaining to stewardship like Matthew 25:14-29.


In fact, the Bible actually indirectly speaks against insurance. Imagine if say Job has insurance. The book of Job would not have existed in the first place. God would not have been able to bless Job if say Job bought insurance because the insurance would have "protected" Job against the tragedies and his faith would not have been tested.

Your "practical" application of faith is not biblical faith. It's just another way of saying that you will do your best and anything that God "blesses" me with after that is just a bonus. You do not have to be a "Christian" to have this kind of thinking. Everyone thinks like that all the time. But then
QUOTE
But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them
says a lot about you. Maybe you should find other religions that do not really love quoting verses.

Also another note. Most of those financial institutions actually lies a lot and are unscrupulous. They often show only 1 side of a financial product but then hide the other sides through terms and conditions which most normal people would not understand. More often then not, when disaster happens and people who buys those products suddenly suffered huge loses even though those terms and conditions were not highlighted to them, those financial institution will always leave those people dry. Buying insurance is also putting your support towards those organization. Of course as indicated above, insurance contracts are similar. Once the insurance company find any "abnormalities", your entire policy may get voided. Of course those things never get highlighted because somehow, media never reports them.

Buying insurance is an acknowledgement of their evil deads and is definitely not how God intends for us to manage our resources
Romans 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

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post Oct 9 2019, 03:52 PM

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Wow, so we have a new group of protestants that are anti-insurance. Interesting.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:39 PM)
In Christ of course. I'm still waiting to see how you harmonize your interpretations with the other verses.
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You say in Christ of course but you use the phrase initial grace meaning Christ only give you starting grace, after that it's all on your own. Where is the hope after that? Seems to be geared towards ownself rather than on Christ.


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post Oct 9 2019, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:44 PM)
To offend or to transgress is the same meaning as to sin. What are you trying to say?

One is not culpable of sin if one is ignorant of the law.

Again, I'm still waiting.
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As what it is...the law was brought in so that sin may abound.

What I'm trying to say? not me but scripture says the design of the law = to increase sin.

That's what it is, though it may sound contradictory to you, it doesn't to me.

That is precisely why I look to Christ and not to OT God's Law.


siewmui P
post Oct 9 2019, 03:58 PM

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Just would like to add one more thing.
If one really wants to "try his best". Instead of buying insurance, he should take care of his health. That's the best way of "trying" your best.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 03:59 PM

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Would appreciate if you dupe accounts would stop this charade.
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post Oct 9 2019, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:52 PM)
You say in Christ of course but you use the phrase initial grace meaning Christ only give you starting grace, after that it's all on your own. Where is the hope after that? Seems to be geared towards ownself rather than on Christ.
*
Did you read? If only initial grace, why pray and ask? Come on.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 04:00 PM)
Did you read? If only initial grace, why pray and ask? Come on.
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Sorry don't understand your question.
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post Oct 9 2019, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 04:03 PM)
Sorry don't understand your question.
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God grants the initial grace. We have to cooperate, and we have to ask for more graces. i.e. through prayer and the sacraments.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 04:08 PM)
God grants the initial grace. We have to cooperate, and we have to ask for more graces. i.e. through prayer and the sacraments.
*
Oh I see. Where does scripture says that?
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 03:55 PM)
As what it is...the law was brought in so that sin may abound.

What I'm trying to say? not me but scripture says the design of the law = to increase sin.

That's what it is, though it may sound contradictory to you, it doesn't to me.

That is precisely why I look to Christ and not to OT God's Law.
*
So are you saying God is the cause of sin by giving the Law?
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post Oct 9 2019, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 04:10 PM)
So are you saying God is the cause of sin by giving the Law?
*
No, God is telling you...you cannot measure up no matter how you try.

His Law will prove that to be right.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 04:11 PM)
No, God is telling you...you cannot measure up no matter how you try.

His Law will prove that to be right.
*
So St Paul was wrong when he said "I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me" even if that means fulfilling the Law with the grace of God?

So don't need to fight the good fight of the faith. Just be lazy ya?

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 04:19 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 04:17 PM)
So St Paul was wrong when he said "I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me" even if that means fulfilling the Law with the grace of God?
*
Look at the context

Philippians 4:10-13
10 Now I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11 I am not saying this out of need, for I have learned to be content regardless of my circumstances. 12 I know how to live humbly, and I know how to abound. I am accustomed to any and every situation—to being filled and being hungry, to having plenty and having need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.


Talking about the physicality challenges.

The whole point of the new covenant is to look away from the OT Law and look to Christ as the anchor point where there is Grace, no more the law.

Look, nobody in here is suggesting that you go ahead and sin. Just give it a rest, it's that part where people put words into my mouth not giving the chance to try to understand what I'm trying to explain.
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post Oct 9 2019, 04:52 PM

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when i posted here yesterday, there were 6 pages. Now, it's 10!
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post Oct 9 2019, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 04:33 PM)
Look at the context

Philippians 4:10-13
10 Now I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11 I am not saying this out of need, for I have learned to be content regardless of my circumstances. 12 I know how to live humbly, and I know how to abound. I am accustomed to any and every situation—to being filled and being hungry, to having plenty and having need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.
Talking about the physicality challenges.

The whole point of the new covenant is to look away from the OT Law and look to Christ as the anchor point where there is Grace, no more the law.

Look, nobody in here is suggesting that you go ahead and sin. Just give it a rest, it's that part where people put words into my mouth not giving the chance to try to understand what I'm trying to explain.
*
Physical challenges are indeed challenges. But even sin can be committed both physically or mentally. Are the apostles not humans too and can be tempted to sin?

If the 10 Commandments are to be forgotten, how does one know what right or wrong anymore? Or are you saying Christians don't sin at all after believing? This is where your position is problematic.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 05:03 PM
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 9 2019, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 05:03 PM)
Physical challenges are indeed challenges. But even sin can be committed both physically or mentally. Are the apostles not humans too and can be tempted to sin?

If the 10 Commandments are to be forgotten, how does one know what right or wrong anymore? Or are you saying Christians don't sin at all after believing? This is where your position is problematic.
*
Oh yeah?! Then how do you keep this one -----> £ Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy £
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post Oct 9 2019, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 9 2019, 05:04 PM)
Oh yeah?!  Then how do you keep this one -----> £ Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy £
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For Christians, it's Sunday.
NicoRobinz
post Oct 9 2019, 05:17 PM

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guys, is there any book that interprets or explain bible in more details?


SUSAlan K.
post Oct 9 2019, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:17 PM)
guys, is there any book that interprets or explain bible in more details?
*
hello,

i read commentaries too, but sadly, human interpretation can be flawed too. Even Matthew Henry.

Regards
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post Oct 9 2019, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:17 PM)
guys, is there any book that interprets or explain bible in more details?
*
Depends on whose interpretation you want to hear. LOL.
NicoRobinz
post Oct 9 2019, 05:42 PM

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Have you ever wondered why did God make the Bible in such difficult to understand and ambiguous?
Roman Catholic
post Oct 9 2019, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:42 PM)
Have you ever wondered why did God make the Bible in such difficult to understand and ambiguous?
*
Its difficult and ambiguous only to those who does not love Him. However those who truly loves Him, the Holy Bible is no longer difficult nor ambiguous. If I should be brave to add, not only the Holy Bible but anything one sets ones heart unto. 😊

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 9 2019, 06:17 PM
NicoRobinz
post Oct 9 2019, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 9 2019, 06:10 PM)
Its difficult and ambiguous only to those who does not love Him. However those who truly loves Him, the Holy Bible is no longer difficult nor ambiguous. If I should be brave to add, not only the Holy Bible but anything one sets ones heart unto. 😊
*
But even in Christianity has different sects, and which sect loves God the most? sweat.gif

To be honest, I find some books in Bible is very hard to understand especially when it comes to Leviticus.

This post has been edited by NicoRobinz: Oct 9 2019, 06:26 PM
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 9 2019, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 06:24 PM)
But even in Christianity has different sects, and which sect loves God the most?  sweat.gif

To be honest, I find some books in Bible is very hard to understand especially when it comes to Leviticus.
*
ahhh, yes, book of Leviticus.

£You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.£ - Leviticus 19:28

So that means no tattoos. Tattoos are socially acceptable if you are not a Christian.
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post Oct 9 2019, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 04:33 PM)
The whole point of the new covenant is to look away from the OT Law and look to Christ as the anchor point where there is Grace, no more the law.

Look, nobody in here is suggesting that you go ahead and sin. Just give it a rest, it's that part where people put words into my mouth not giving the chance to try to understand what I'm trying to explain.
*
HEBREWS.8:7-13 (NKJV) = A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
_______ _______

Yes, in the New Covenant we are saved from hell solely by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the Old Covenant of keeping the Law.
....... Nevertheless, the Word of God above says that in the New Covenant, God would first implant His Law/laws/commandments in the hearts and mind of Jews of the house of Israel. This New Covenant was later extended to the Gentiles.
....... There was no problem with God doing this implantation in the Jews as the Jews became Christians, like the 12 apostles and 108 disciples of Christ, since they were already well-versed with all 613 laws/commandments in Moses Law or God's Law, having learned them from childhood - 2TIM.3:14-17.

But for later Gentile Christian adults brought into the sheepfold by apostle Paul, God would have a problem doing this implantation of His laws in them because most Gentile Christians had formerly led lawless lives from childhood as Gentiles, ie wrt God's Law.
....... So, what did God do with the new Gentile Christians.? At ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4, God liberated them from the burdensome parts of His Law, eg they were exempted from being circumcised, eating kosher/clean foods, keeping Sabbath strictly on Saturday or Sunday, etc. OTOH, God required them to begin their new born-again lives by just keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws/commandments, ie avoid eating blood, strangled animal sacrifices, foods offered to idols and sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or non-essential laws like the 10 Commandments - the spiritual milk of 1COR.3:1-3 for spiritual new-born babies.
....... There is always the danger of new Gentile Christians not growing spiritually or being taken captive by Satan with demonic doctrines like Hyper-Grace, counterfeit miracles, etc - 1TIM.4:1, 2THESS.2:9, 2TIM.3:1. Eg misguided Christians like Martin Luther, the supposed father of the Protestant Reformation, even set aside the 10 Commandments and proceeded to break them(= commit sins) when attacked and tormented by Satan about his salvation = justification by faith and not by the Law(= Satan planted doubts in his heart).

In comparison, most Jewish Christians were born-again as Spirit'ual adults. So, God required them to continue to keep Moses Law or His Law, as many laws as possible, because they were not a burden to them, eg the apostles continued to keep Moses Law, as do today's Messianic Jews. Jewish Christians were not to live like new Gentile Christians = it would be like a dog returning to its vomit, ie to the time of pre-Law Job, Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah.


HEBREWS.5:12-14 = Spiritual Immaturity

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
.

1PETER.2:1-3 = Our Inheritance Through Christ’s Blood

2 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious..
.

1COR.3:1-4 = Sectarianism Is Carnal

3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 9 2019, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 04:08 PM)
God grants the initial grace. We have to cooperate, and we have to ask for more graces. i.e. through prayer and the sacraments.
*
sorry, but i believe that sacraments are sacrilegious.
Roman Catholic
post Oct 9 2019, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 06:24 PM)
But even in Christianity has different sects, and which sect loves God the most?  sweat.gif

To be honest, I find some books in Bible is very hard to understand especially when it comes to Leviticus.
*
God loves everyone to be honest and even the different Christian sects, the real question we have to ask ourselves is, do we really love God ? Do we really understand what loving God is truly all about or is it loving God only limited according to our human understanding of what love is.

Being able to fulfill the Greatest Commandment is the first step every Christian must learn. The human heart is capable of such profound love, when God changes ones heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

As for the query, fret not, for everything will fall into place when the time comes especially with the Spirit of God. 😊
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 10 2019, 02:24 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround)
. ....... So, your argument for buying life insurance is naught or baseless as it goes against trusting in God by keeping His Law/Word, in order to be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth. You either trust God or trust Mammon = you cannot trust both at the same time..

.
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 02:08 PM)
That is not right.
*
Please elaborate on what is not right.

Trusting in Jesus Christ saves us from hell (= inherit eternal life in the kingdom of heaven) when we die = resurrection or rapture, then live 1,000 years with Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) on a new earth before finally meeting God in His true form(EZEK.1, REV.4) in His kingdom of heaven.

But before dying and being resurrected or raptured by God, most of us still have to spend many years on this rotten earth. How should we live this life on earth if not by God's Law or His Word which He implants in our mind and hearts through His Holy Spirit(HEBREWS.8:7-13).? Problem is, most of the formerly lawless Gentile Christians are practically empty of God's Law in their mind and hearts. Such Gentile Christians must hear or read God's laws/commandments before God could implant them in their mind and hearts, so that they could be empowered by His Holy Spirit to lead a morally-upright and law-abiding lives of earth = will be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth.
....... It's like a scientist programming his codes(= laws/rules) into his robot, so that it will do what he wants it to do. Without the right program codes, the robot will fail to do as desired by the scientist.

Trusting in Jesus Christ and being born-again of the Spirit alone won't help or guide such spiritual-baby Gentile Christians who lack God's laws in their mind and hearts, to live a morally-upright and word/law-abiding lives on earth. They need to grow Spirit'ually by feeding on the Word/Law = feeding on His flesh = feeding on the Bread of life = partaking the bread and wine of the Holy Communion or Mass.
....... Remember, Jesus Christ is also the Word. To trust Jesus Christ = to also trust the Word. The Word of God is also the Law of God. EPH.6:17 says that the sword of the Spirit is the Word of God = the Holy Spirit of God can't work His power without the Word of God or the Law of God, as is the case with most new and just born-again Gentile Christians. Such Gentile Christians who continue to neglect and ignore God's laws/commandments, as found in the Old Testament, will likely not endure in their faith = lose faith and salvation. Babies are easily killed or die more in numbers compared to adults - same goes for spiritual babies-in-Christ.

In comparison, at JOHN.13:10 , Jesus Christ declared the 11 Jewish Christian apostles as clean = no need for their bodies to be bathed by Him = only needed their feet to be washed by Him. Feet are used for walking on earth = walking in the Spirit on earth = how to live our lives on earth.
....... Most new Gentile Christians need their whole bodies to be bathed and their feet washed clean by the Lord/God Jesus Christ since spiritual babes-in-Christ cannot walk properly in the Spirit.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 08:15 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 05:03 PM)
Physical challenges are indeed challenges. But even sin can be committed both physically or mentally. Are the apostles not humans too and can be tempted to sin?

If the 10 Commandments are to be forgotten, how does one know what right or wrong anymore? Or are you saying Christians don't sin at all after believing? This is where your position is problematic.
*
This is where you misunderstand as proven right what I said the 1st time, people put their words into my mouth.

You think when I say look away = go ahead to sin.

How does one know? Since the beginning of time when God created Man in his image, that comes together with moral conscious built in. Even before the 10 commandment was given, Man and woman already know what is wrong, what is fear, etc.

And as written in Hebrews 10:15-16, same thing.


15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their hearts

and inscribe them on their minds.”b


I do think every Christians already know the 10 commandments. Even unbelievers have heard of it. So to say how to know is really a misnomer. When scripture says that 10 commandments = Ministry of death, basically, what God is saying, you will NEVER be able to justify yourself in being righteous by his laws because God's law was never design to make anyone holy or to save them. But the reverse, the more you try to adhere to it, trespasses will abound even more..meaning the more you try the more you will end up sinning.


Romans 3:20 (KJV) - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Am I saying God's law = Sin?

No. God's law is holy but it becomes death for anyone who thinks they can self justify thought it because God's standard is just too high.

People just forget, our righteousness is as dirty as a women sanitary napkin.


Read this through and you'll know what I say is correct.



Romans 7:7-25

God’s Law Is Holy

7What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”a 8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.

12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Struggling with Sin

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

What Romans 7:8 is saying, Sin is only alive through God's law and not anywhere else. (1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.)

Look at verse 25!

That is why I say...look away from OT God's law and look to Christ.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 09:30 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 02:24 AM)
Please elaborate on what is not right.

Trusting in Jesus Christ saves us from hell (= inherit eternal life in the kingdom of heaven) when we die = resurrection or rapture, then live 1,000 years with Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) on a new earth before finally meeting God in His true form(EZEK.1, REV.4) in His kingdom of heaven.

But before dying and being resurrected or raptured by God, most of us still have to spend many years on this rotten earth. How should we live this life on earth if not by God's Law or His Word which He implants in our mind and hearts through His Holy Spirit(HEBREWS.8:7-13).? Problem is, most of the formerly lawless Gentile Christians are practically empty of God's Law in their mind and hearts. Such Gentile Christians must hear or read God's laws/commandments before God could implant them in their mind and hearts, so that they could be empowered by His Holy Spirit to lead a morally-upright and law-abiding lives of earth = will be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth.
....... It's like a scientist programming his codes(= laws/rules) into his robot, so that it will do what he wants it to do. Without the right program codes, the robot will fail to do as desired by the scientist.

Trusting in Jesus Christ and being born-again of the Spirit alone won't help or guide such spiritual-baby Gentile Christians who lack God's laws in their mind and hearts,  to live a morally-upright and word/law-abiding lives on earth. They need to grow Spirit'ually by feeding on  the Word/Law = feeding on His flesh = feeding on the Bread of life = partaking the bread and wine of the Holy Communion or Mass.
....... Remember, Jesus Christ is also the Word. To trust Jesus Christ = to also trust the Word. The Word of God is also the Law of God. EPH.6:17 says that the sword of the Spirit is the Word of God = the Holy Spirit of God can't work His power without the Word of God or the Law of God, as is the case with most new and just born-again Gentile Christians. Such Gentile Christians who continue to neglect and ignore God's laws/commandments, as found in the Old Testament, will likely not endure in their faith = lose faith and salvation. Babies are easily killed or die more in numbers compared to adults - same goes for spiritual babies-in-Christ.

In comparison, at JOHN.13:10 , Jesus Christ declared the 11 Jewish Christian apostles as clean = no need for their bodies to be bathed by Him = only needed their feet to be washed by Him. Feet are used for walking on earth = walking in the Spirit on earth = how to live our lives on earth.
....... Most new Gentile Christians need their whole bodies to be bathed and their feet washed clean by the Lord/God Jesus Christ since spiritual babes-in-Christ cannot walk properly in the Spirit.

*
Because this type of preposition is the same type as Christians should not go to doctors because by doing so means you don't have faith in God.


alexkos
post Oct 10 2019, 09:23 AM

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Q. If God is sovereign over all things, does He have the power to change sinners heart, raise the dead, and bring an unbelieving man into repentance?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:42 PM)
Have you ever wondered why did God make the Bible in such difficult to understand and ambiguous?
*
It's interesting to note that.....God said this, Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. There's meaning in that to help understand your question.

Why is it that Heaven and Earth can be destroyed but his word cannot?

Because God's Word = God. (John 1:1 (NIV) - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.)

With that being said, If anyone can uncover God, He himself would be God. And I'm glad that is true. That I cannot completely understand everything about God, that makes Him a very superior being.

But does it mean God is a complete mystery and not possible to be understood? Ie his word...of course not. You have the Holy Spirit to help confirm in your heart what is truth.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 10 2019, 09:23 AM)
Q. If God is sovereign over all things, does He have the power to change sinners heart, raise the dead, and bring an unbelieving man into repentance?
*
Just want to say something on the last part of the sentence.

In contrast...even for people who already knew God.....God didn't stop or influence Adam from disobeying.

just note of interest.


yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 9 2019, 07:35 PM)
sorry, but i believe that sacraments are sacrilegious.
*
Sacraments are instituted by Christ Himself.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 10 2019, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 08:21 AM)
Because this type of preposition is the same type as Christians should not go to doctors because by doing so means you don't have faith in God.
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2CHRONICLES.16:7-13 (NKJV) = Hanani’s Message to Asa

7 And at that time Hanani the seer came to Asa king of Judah, and said to him: “Because you have relied on the king of Syria, and have not relied on the Lord your God, therefore the army of the king of Syria has escaped from your hand. 8 Were the Ethiopians and the Lubim not a huge army with very many chariots and horsemen? Yet, because you relied on the Lord, He delivered them into your hand. 9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him. In this you have done foolishly; therefore from now on you shall have wars.” 10 Then Asa was angry with the seer, and put him in prison, for he was enraged at him because of this. And Asa oppressed some of the people at that time.

Illness and Death of Asa

11 Note that the acts of Asa, first and last, are indeed written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12 And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the Lord, but the physicians.

13 So Asa rested with his fathers; he died in the forty-first year of his reign.
.

MARK.5:25-34 = 25 Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for twelve years, 26 and had suffered many things from many physicians. She had spent all that she had and was no better, but rather grew worse. 27 When she heard about Jesus, she came behind Him in the crowd and touched His garment. 28 For she said, “If only I may touch His clothes, I shall be made well.”

29 Immediately the fountain of her blood was dried up, and she felt in her body that she was healed of the affliction. 30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in Himself that power had gone out of Him, turned around in the crowd and said, “Who touched My clothes?”

31 But His disciples said to Him, “You see the multitude thronging You, and You say, ‘Who touched Me?’ ”

32 And He looked around to see her who had done this thing. 33 But the woman, fearing and trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. 34 And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace, and be healed of your affliction.
.

MATTHEW.9:10-13 =10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
_______ _______

As per MATTHEW.9:10-13, all Jews and Gentiles are born sinners and need the Great Physician to save them from hell when they die because of their inherited Adam's Original Sin - ROMANS.5:12 = believers become Christians.

But for such new Christians' remaining lives on earth before death and salvation actually occurs, Word/Law-abiding Christians who do not commit sins leading to death, especially Jewish Christians, do not need doctors or physicians for hospital treatment of serious illnesses/diseases, as per the 1st 2 Bible quotes above, because God will bless them with a good and long life on earth.
No one is perfect = even law-abiding Christians may occasionally commit unintentional or negligent sins not leading to death = may occasionally need to see a General Practioner doctor for treatment of a non-serious illness. IOW, they are not habitual sinners/law-breakers.
....... There is something very Spirit'ually wrong with a Christian wrt trust/faith in God and His Word/Law, when he/she has to see GP doctors very often or see hospitalization doctors for treatment of serious illnesses a few times, eg spiritual-baby Gentile Christians who never grew up or refused to grow up, eg because they are ignorant of God's laws/words.. .......


1COR.11:30-32 = 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
.

DEUT.28: = Curses on Disobedience

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: ...

. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 10:48 PM
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 08:15 AM)
This is where you misunderstand as proven right what I said the 1st time, people put their words into my mouth.

You think when I say look away = go ahead to sin.

How does one know? Since the beginning of time when God created Man in his image, that comes together with moral conscious built in. Even before the 10 commandment was given, Man and woman already know what is wrong, what is fear, etc.

And as written in Hebrews 10:15-16, same thing.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their hearts

and inscribe them on their minds.”b


I do think every Christians already know the 10 commandments. Even unbelievers have heard of it. So to say how to know is really a misnomer. When scripture says that 10 commandments = Ministry of death, basically, what God is saying, you will NEVER be able to justify yourself in being righteous by his laws because God's law was never design to make anyone holy or to save them. But the reverse, the more you try to adhere to it, trespasses will abound even more..meaning the more you try the more you will end up sinning.
Romans 3:20 (KJV) - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Am I saying God's law = Sin?

No. God's law is holy but it becomes death for anyone who thinks they can self justify thought it because God's standard is just too high.

People just forget, our righteousness is as dirty as a women sanitary napkin.
Read this through and you'll know what I say is correct.
Romans 7:7-25

God’s Law Is Holy

7What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”a 8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.

12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Struggling with Sin

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

What Romans 7:8 is saying, Sin is only alive through God's law and not anywhere else.  (1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.)

Look at verse 25!

That is why I say...look away from OT God's law and look to Christ.
*
I'll agree with you on the part no one can justify himself. No where did I say man can justify himself. Saying to turn away from the 10 Commandments won't help either. "Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth." (Ps 119:142).

The Law is that what defines what is good and what is evil, what is righteousness and what is sin. Therefore, the law itself is good, but our sinful nature, since it finds out what is sinful wants to practice sin and thus, sin uses the Law as an opportunity. That is what St Paul means.

Do you know why you only use verses from St Paul to justify your position, just as Luther used only St Paul but denounced St James? Remember the story of St Paul how before he became a Christian he was Saul, the fiercest denouncer of Christians and a high ranking Pharisee. It was because he was trying to follow the Old Covenant laws entirely, both moral, ritual, and judicial. And I maintain that the moral laws remain (and even higher standard since the coming of Christ) but the ritual and judicial laws of Moses has been abrogated as they have all been fulfilled in Christ. Nowhere does it say the commandments of God are to be forgotten. Victory over the sinful nature is possible only in Jesus Christ and only through faith in Him, repenting and asking Him for forgiveness for all our sins and inherit eternal life with all the saints. In the Catholic Church, the way to do that is via the sacraments instituted by Him, beginning with baptism which is the first sarament of faith in Christ, Confession (after we have fallen into sins committed after baptism), Holy Eucharist (receiving His Body and Blood), and so on.

I'll let the CCC explain to you your warped understanding of original sin and human nature below:

God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die." The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.

Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God's command. This is what man's first sin consisted of. All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.

Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness. They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul's spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination. Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.Because of man, creation is now subject "to its bondage to decay".Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will "return to the ground",for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.

After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain's murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ's atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.

After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium ("first gospel"): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.

The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the "New Adam" who, because he "became obedient unto death, even death on a cross", makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the "new Eve". Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ's victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.

But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ's inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon's envy had taken away."And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature's being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, 'Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more'; and the Exsultet sings, 'O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'"

The Council of Trent teaches : If anyone says that man is justified before God by his own works (whether done through the teaching of human nature or the law) without the grace of God through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 11:37 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 10:59 AM)

But for such new Christians' remaining lives on earth before death and salvation actually occurs, Word/Law-abiding Christians who do not commit sins leading to death, especially Jewish Christians, do not need doctors or physicians for hospital treatment of serious illnesses/diseases, as per the 1st 2 Bible quotes above, because God will bless them with a good and long life on earth.
No one is perfect = even law-abiding Christians may occasionally commit unintentional or negligent sins not leading to death = may occasionally need to see a General Practioner doctor for treatment of a non-serious illness. IOW, they are not habitual sinners/law-breakers.
....... There is something very Spirit'ually wrong with a Christian wrt trust/faith in God and His Word/Law, when he/she has to see GP doctors very often or see hospitalization doctors for treatment of serious illnesses a few times, eg spiritual-baby Gentile Christians who never grew up or refused to grow up, eg because they are ignorant of God's laws/words.. ....... [/i]

*
Are you serious or are you trolling?



TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 11:33 AM)
I'll agree with you on the part no one can justify himself. No where did I say man can justify himself. Saying to turn away from the 10 Commandments won't help either. "Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth." (Ps 119:142).

The Law is that what defines what is good and what is evil, what is righteousness and what is sin. Therefore, the law itself is good, but our sinful nature, since it finds out what is sinful wants to practice sin and thus, sin uses the Law as an opportunity. That is what St Paul means.

Do you know why you only use verses from St Paul to justify your position, just as Luther used only St Paul but denounced St James? Remember the story of St Paul how before he became a Christian he was Saul, the fiercest denouncer of Christians and a high ranking Pharisee. It was because he was trying to follow the Old Covenant laws entirely, both moral, ritual, and judicial. And I maintain that the moral laws remain (and even higher standard since the coming of Christ) but the ritual and judicial laws of Moses has been abrogated as they have all been fulfilled in Christ. Nowhere does it say the commandments of God are to be forgotten. Victory over the sinful nature is possible only in Jesus Christ and only through faith in Him, repenting and asking Him for forgiveness for all our sins and inherit eternal life with all the saints. In the Catholic Church, the way to do that is via the sacraments instituted by Him, beginning with baptism which is the first sarament of faith in Christ, Confession (after we have fallen into sins committed after baptism), Holy Eucharist (receiving His Body and Blood), and so on.

I'll let the CCC explain to you your warped understanding of original sin and human nature below:

God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die." The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.

Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God's command. This is what man's first sin consisted of. All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.

Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness. They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul's spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination. Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.Because of man, creation is now subject "to its bondage to decay".Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will "return to the ground",for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.

After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain's murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ's atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.

After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall. This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium ("first gospel"): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.

The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the "New Adam" who, because he "became obedient unto death, even death on a cross", makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the "new Eve". Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ's victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.

But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ's inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon's envy had taken away."And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature's being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, 'Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more'; and the Exsultet sings, 'O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'"

The Council of Trent teaches : If anyone says that man is justified before God by his own works (whether done through the teaching of human nature or the law) without the grace of God through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.
*
Read it yourself. If sin uses the Law as an opportunity, why do you want to increase that opportunity? As I've said sin is only empowered through God's law and no where else.
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 11:39 AM)
Read it yourself. If sin uses the Law as an opportunity, why do you want to increase that opportunity? As I've said sin is only empowered through God's law and no where else.
*
Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised,-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism, to begin a new life, and to keep the commandments of God. Concerning this disposition it is written; He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him; and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee; and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin; and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.

And what did Christ told the woman caught in adultery? "Go and sin no more!"


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 11:47 AM)
Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised,-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism, to begin a new life, and to keep the commandments of God. Concerning this disposition it is written; He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him; and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee; and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin; and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.

And what did Christ told the woman caught in adultery? "Go and sin no more!"
*
You're not reading what I've said or you don't understand what my question ask?


yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 11:51 AM)
You're not reading what I've said or you don't understand what my question ask?
*
Is adultery a sin or not?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 11:54 AM)
Is adultery a sin or not?
*
Why are you posting something irrelevant to what I've said?
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 11:56 AM)
Why are you posting something irrelevant to what I've said?
*
It's very relevant because it will indicate one's position. Simple question.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 11:58 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 10 2019, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck)
If the 10 Commandments are to be forgotten, how does one know what right or wrong anymore? Or are you saying Christians don't sin at all after believing? This is where your position is problematic.

.
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 08:51 AM)
This is where you misunderstand as proven right what I said the 1st time, people put their words into my mouth.

You think when I say look away = go ahead to sin.

How does one know? Since the beginning of time when God created Man in his image, that comes together with moral conscious built in. Even before the 10 commandment was given, Man and woman already know what is wrong, what is fear, etc.
*
That is not right wrt God creating Man in His image with moral consciousness built-in. .......

GENESIS.2:16-17 = . 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

The moral consciousness of Man only came into him when Adam broke God's 1st-ever commandment/law by eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On top of that, this Original Sin caused Man to experience spiritual death(= bound for hell)and to be further cursed by God at GENESIS.3:14-19, eg Man has to suffer spiritual enmity with Satan = Satan can occasionally plant sinful/evil thoughts in his heart and mind, eg immoral sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc, ... in order to get him to voluntarily commit sins, especially for him to commit grave sins and die young so that Satan/demons can eat his decaying body as it returns to dust.


.
ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.


In general, people without God's Law, even though they have moral consciousness or the knowledge of good and evil, are carnal and will often fall into Satan's testing and temptations, go and commit sins or lawlessness willfully = hence we have a mostly rotten world since GENESIS.4. For Christians, the right antidote or medicine for this spiritual problem is as per MATTHEW.4:1-11 = Jesus Christ, filled with the Holy Spirit of God, overcame Satan's testing and temptations with the Word of God quoted from the Old Testament, and not with moral consciousness = Word/Law-abiding Christians walking in the Spirit who do not wallow in the mud of sins/law-breaking like pigs.

Should the Church be without any laws/rules and regulations/order of service, and just rely on the Christian members' moral consciousness to do what is good.?
Should a country be without any laws and just rely on her citizens' moral consciousness to do what is good.?

.

1COR.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The apostle Paul stated that many new Gentile Christian adults(= Corinthian Christians) were formerly serious law-breakers/sinners when they were carnal and lawless Gentiles. .He warned them not to return to their former sins/law-breaking and continue in the sins. If they did, they would have lost their inheritance in the kingdom of God, eg if a Gentile Christian today willfully return to the sin of homosexual-sex and sodomy unrepentantly, he will likely get HIV+, and then lose faith and salvation while dying horribly from AIDS and/or other STDs. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God - HEB.10:26-31.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 11:58 AM)
It's very relevant because it will indicate one's position. Simple question.
*
But I wasn't talking about one's position. That's why I asked you, are you not reading correctly what I've posted?

You seem to be trailing off to something irrelevant.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 12:49 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 12:41 PM)
That is not right wrt God creating Man in His image with moral consciousness built-in. .......

GENESIS.2:16-17 = . 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

The moral consciousness of Man only came into him when Adam broke God's 1st-ever commandment/law by eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On top of that, this Original Sin caused Man to experience spiritual death(= bound for hell)and to be further cursed by God at GENESIS.3:14-19, eg Man has to suffer spiritual enmity with Satan = Satan can occasionally plant sinful/evil thoughts in his heart and mind, eg immoral sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc, ... in order to get him to voluntarily commit sins, especially for him to commit grave sins and die young so that Satan/demons can eat his decaying body as it returns to dust.


.
ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.


In general, people without God's Law, even though they have moral consciousness or the knowledge of good and evil, are carnal and will often fall into Satan's testing and temptations, go and commit sins or lawlessness willfully = hence we have a mostly rotten world since GENESIS.4. For Christians, the right antidote or medicine for this spiritual problem is as per MATTHEW.4:1-11 = Jesus Christ, filled with the Holy Spirit of God, overcame Satan's testing and temptations with the Word of God quoted from the Old Testament, and not with moral consciousness = Word/Law-abiding Christians walking in the Spirit who do not wallow in the mud of sins/law-breaking like pigs.

Should the Church be without any laws/rules and regulations/order of service, and just rely on the Christian members' moral consciousness to do what is good.?
Should a country be without any laws and just rely on her citizens' moral consciousness to do what is good.?


*
No, that is where you are wrong. Before adam took the fruit, God already told Him of what is wrong with eating that one forbidden fruit. Adam fully understood that.

and No, neither am I talking about references to what you're saying about relying citizen's moral conscious.



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post Oct 10 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 12:45 PM)
But I wasn't talking about one's position. That's why I asked you, are you not reading correctly what I've posted?

You seem to be trailing off to something irrelevant.
*
Your conclusion is what's incorrect from what I read. Again, is adultery sin or not? What does it mean by sin no more?

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 01:22 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 10 2019, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:21 PM)
Your conclusion is what's incorrect from what I read. Again, is adultery sin or not?
*
Conclusion of what exactly?
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:22 PM)
Conclusion of what exactly?
*
Of turning away from the Commandments.
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:23 PM)
Of turning away from the Commandments.
*
But I didn't say that.
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:25 PM)
But I didn't say that.
*
doh.gif
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:32 PM)
doh.gif
*
Go ahead, point it out, where did I say that?
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:34 PM)
Go ahead, point it out, where did I say that?
*
What does look away mean then?

Is adultery a sin?

Does the 10 Commandments causes you to sin?

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 01:44 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:42 PM)
What does look away mean then?
*
So do you admit, you didn't bother to read properly of the entirety of what I post or you want to continue in your presumption of your miscomprehension?
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:47 PM)
So do you admit, you didn't bother to read properly of the entirety of what I post or you want to continue in your presumption of your miscomprehension?
*
It's the same meaning. Does the 10 Commandments causes you to sin?

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 01:50 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:49 PM)
It's the same meaning.
*
No it's not and you are putting your words into my mouth.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 01:53 PM
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:52 PM)
then you are putting your words into my mouth.
*
So you are saying it means different thing?
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:52 PM)
So you are saying it means different thing?
*
Of course different when you put the entirety of what I've said.

I said...look away from OT God's law and look to Christ.

What does that means to you?
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post Oct 10 2019, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 01:56 PM)
Of course different when you put the entirety of what I've said.

I said...look away from OT God's law and look to Christ.

What does that means to you?
*
That's why I asked the simple questions which you are evading because I want to know the practical aspect of this statement.

1) Are the 10 Commandments irrelevant now?
2) Does the 10 commandments causes you to sin?

Supposing that we both agree God is the one who grants grace to the believer, I'm still waiting for your answers to the above.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 01:59 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:58 PM)
That's why I asked the simple questions which you are evading because I want to know the practical aspect of this statement.

1) Are the 10 Commandments irrelevant now?
2) Does the 10 commandments causes you to sin?

Supposing that we both agree God is the one who grants grace to the believer, I'm still waiting for your answers to the above.
*
Not evading but needed you to completely understand the preposition first of what I've said because otherwise you'll never understand the next explanation.

Many pages back I've already made this statement. People who argue against what I share think by the phrase looking away from 10 commandment = asking you to sin.

And I've proven to be right in this.

Do you concede that no where am I asking Christians to sin? I need that affirmation first because I really do hate slanders or people putting their words into my mouth.


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post Oct 10 2019, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 02:03 PM)
Not evading but needed you to completely understand the preposition first of what I've said because otherwise you'll never understand the next explanation.

Many pages back I've already made this statement. People who argue against what I share think by the phrase looking away from 10 commandment = asking you to sin.

And I've proven to be right in this.

Do you concede that no where am I asking Christians to sin? I need that affirmation first because I really do hate slanders or people putting their words into my mouth.
*
Yes I agree you didn't ask Christians to sin. But the practical aspect of your teaching is exactly that. Just believe (mental assent) and boom....That's why I'm asking those simple questions.
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post Oct 10 2019, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:08 PM)
Yes I agree you didn't ask Christians to sin. But the practical aspect of your teaching is exactly that. Just believe (mental assent) and boom....That's why I'm asking those simple questions.
*
Thank you and you should know by now, there is no ill intention.

the very intention of all that I share is to get people "OUT" of sin according to God's word not get in.

So would appreciate if you or anyone stop all that buruk prasangka towards me.

Yes I will explain but please do remember it's with good intention.

Give me a minute. brb


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post Oct 10 2019, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 02:12 PM)
Thank you and you should know by now, there is no ill intention.

the very intention of all that I share is to get people "OUT" of sin according to God's word not get in.

So would appreciate if you or anyone stop all that  buruk prasangka towards me.

Yes I will explain but please do remember it's with good intention.

Give me a minute. brb
*
You do know that "hell is paved with good intentions" right?
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post Oct 10 2019, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:14 PM)
You do know that "hell is paved with good intentions" right?
*
If you still want to harp ill thought of me, then good day to you sir and God bless.
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post Oct 10 2019, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 02:33 PM)
If you still want to harp ill thought of me, then good day to you sir and God bless.
*
If you're triggered by that and want to use that to avoid answering, nvm then.
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post Oct 10 2019, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:38 PM)
If you're triggered by that and want to use that to avoid answering, nvm then.
*
I will not take kindly to slander and lies propagated by anyone or you.

I don't take kindly to what is said that the aspect of my teaching is with intent to ask people to sin.

Who are you to put your words into my mouth?

*I'm being nice and trying to be open to you and you have the gumption to step on my head.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 02:47 PM
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 02:44 PM)
I will not take kindly to slander and lies propagated by anyone or you.

I don't take kindly to what is said that the aspect of my teaching is with intent to ask people to sin.

Who are you to put your words into my mouth?

*I'm being nice and trying to be open to you and you have the gumption to step on my head.
*
You win liao la since you are the moderator.
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post Oct 10 2019, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:48 PM)
You win liao la since you are the moderator.
*
This has nothing to do with me as moderator for this thread, but you being condescending by your buruk prasangka and that in turn was based on your miscomprehension of how you understand what I teach.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 03:10 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 12:52 PM)
No, that is where you are wrong. Before adam took the fruit, God already told Him of what is wrong with eating that one forbidden fruit. Adam fully understood that.
*
GENESIS.3:6-7 (NKJV) = 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

The Word of God says you are wrong. Adam only knew that human nakedess was evil/bad(= unlike the good or clothed image of God) after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not before Adam took the fruit.
....... IOW, Adam only gained moral consciousness of good and evil only after he took the fruit, not before.
_______ _______

The Story of the Creation and Fall of Man at GENESIS.1-3:

(1) Man was originally created to tend and keep the earth - GENESIS.2:15. Instead, Man has been destroying the earth and at an increasing rate.

(2) Woman has been cursed by God to suffer pain during childbirth and emotional rule/abuse from her husband/bf/lover after falling in love with him.
....... In comparison, female animals do not suffer pain in giving birth, eg cows.

(3) Man has been cursed by God to suffer laborious work to earn his living and suffer physical death.
....... In comparison, non-domesticated living things and animals do not have to suffer such, especially those that live in forests/jungles that far away from destructive human activities.

(4) Satan has been cursed by God to crawl the earth and be at spiritual enmity with Man. Satan/demons' spiritual food is the decaying bodies of Man(= eat dust) as he returns to dust after death = Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy.
= Satan has no freedom to do other stuffs as he liked.
.

Adam and this "new" earth was created by God(GEN.1:1 & 2) to replace a very old earth of Neanderthals and dinosaurs that was ruled by Lucifer, one of God's 3 archangels, before he fell - EZEK.28:14, ISA.14:12, REV.12:4-9.

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post Oct 10 2019, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 03:44 PM)
GENESIS.3:6-7 (NKJV) = 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

The Word of God says you are wrong. Adam only knew that  human nakedess was evil/bad(= unlike the good or clothed image of God) after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not before Adam took the fruit.
....... IOW, Adam only gained moral consciousness of good and evil only after he took the fruit, not before.
_______ _______

The Story of the Creation and Fall of Man  at GENESIS.1-3:

(1) Man was originally created to tend and keep the earth - GENESIS.2:15. Instead, Man has been destroying the earth and at an increasing rate.

(2) Woman has been cursed by God to suffer pain during childbirth and emotional rule/abuse from her husband/bf/lover after falling in love with him.
....... In comparison, female animals do not suffer pain in giving birth, eg cows.

(3) Man has been cursed by God to suffer laborious work to earn his living and suffer physical death.
....... In comparison, non-domesticated living things and animals do not have to suffer such, especially those that live in forests/jungles that far away from destructive human activities.

(4) Satan has been cursed by God to crawl the earth and be at spiritual enmity with Man. Satan/demons' spiritual food is the decaying bodies of Man(= eat dust) as he returns to dust after death = Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy.
= Satan has no freedom to do other stuffs as he liked.
.

Adam and this "new" earth was created by God(GEN.1:1 & 2) to replace a very old earth of Neanderthals and dinosaurs that was ruled by Lucifer, one of God's 3 archangels, before he fell - EZEK.28:14, ISA.14:12, REV.12:4-9.

*
Erm Nope. they fully understood what was said by God. they knew it would be wrong


Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV)
…2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’
konholio
post Oct 10 2019, 03:53 PM

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What Jesus will says when He read this thread?
I believe the way to eternal life is not an exam on how much you understand Bible.
To be Christian is simple as to know God's love, Jesus died for our sins and to love one another. That's my theology.
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post Oct 10 2019, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(konholio @ Oct 10 2019, 03:53 PM)
What Jesus will says when He read this thread?
I believe the way to eternal life is not an exam on how much you understand Bible.
To be Christian is simple as to know God's love, Jesus died for our sins and to love one another. That's my theology.
*
to which I agree and I know where you are coming from.

tq.


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post Oct 10 2019, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 03:00 PM)
This has nothing to do with me as moderator for this thread, but you being condescending by your buruk prasangka and that in turn was based on your miscomprehension of how you understand what I teach.
*
Not helped further when the simple questions are evaded.
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:42 PM)
Have you ever wondered why did God make the Bible in such difficult to understand and ambiguous?
*
No. He did not.

It only seems ambiguous because He had it written in Hebrew and we are now reading it in mostly English. There is no direct translation of languages in its perfect context and intentions.

Therefore, study and prove yourself to be a good workman.
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:06 PM)
Not helped further when the simple questions are evaded.
*
Questions laid with discrimination thoughts, you're not being sincere either.
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 10 2019, 04:08 PM)
No. He did not.

It only seems ambiguous because He had it written in Hebrew and we are now reading it in mostly English. There is no direct translation of languages in its perfect context and intentions.

Therefore, study and prove yourself to be a good workman.
*
Hebrew for the Old Testament, Greek for the New Testament. Even if the Bible remained only in those languages, there is bound to be different interpretations by different people reading it.
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:11 PM)
Hebrew for the Old Testament, Greek for the New Testament. Even if the Bible remained only in those languages, there is bound to be different interpretations by different people reading it.
*
Originally in Hebrew even for the NT. Or at least the gospels.

There you go. WE wear Greek mindset to interpretation nowadays. Very different from Hebrew

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 10 2019, 04:13 PM
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 10 2019, 04:12 PM)
Originally in Hebrew even for the NT.  Or at least the gospels.

There you go. WE wear Greek mindset to interpretation nowadays. Very different from Hebrew
*
Most biblical scholars adhere to the view that the Greek text of the New Testament is the original version.[10] However, there does exist an alternative view which maintains that it is a translation from an Aramaic original, a position known as Peshitta Primacy (also known in primarily non-scholarly circles as "Aramaic primacy"). Although this view has its adherents, the vast majority of scholars dispute this position citing linguistic, historical, and textual inconsistencies.[11] At any rate, since most of the texts are written by diaspora Jews such as Paul the Apostle and his possibly Gentile companion, Luke, and to a large extent addressed directly to Christian communities in Greek-speaking cities (often communities consisting largely of Paul's converts, which appear to have been non-Jewish in the majority), and since the style of their Greek is impeccable,[12] a Greek original is more probable than a translation.

For the gospels, probably you are right.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 10 2019, 04:17 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:11 PM)
Hebrew for the Old Testament, Greek for the New Testament. Even if the Bible remained only in those languages, there is bound to be different interpretations by different people reading it.
*
You don't have to be sarcastic when even you tried to change the meaning

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

You implied sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law but that is not what it says. The word is sin there not sinner.



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post Oct 10 2019, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:14 PM)
Most biblical scholars adhere to the view that the Greek text of the New Testament is the original version.[10] However, there does exist an alternative view which maintains that it is a translation from an Aramaic original, a position known as Peshitta Primacy (also known in primarily non-scholarly circles as "Aramaic primacy"). Although this view has its adherents, the vast majority of scholars dispute this position citing linguistic, historical, and textual inconsistencies.[11] At any rate, since most of the texts are written by diaspora Jews such as Paul the Apostle and his possibly Gentile companion, Luke, and to a large extent addressed directly to Christian communities in Greek-speaking cities (often communities consisting largely of Paul's converts, which appear to have been non-Jewish in the majority), and since the style of their Greek is impeccable,[12] a Greek original is more probable than a translation.
*
You have a tendency to cut and paste without links! biggrin.gif

No. Nowadays we have Hebrew scholars who look at the sentence syntax and idioms, etc in the gospels, and some of them do not make any sense in Greek.
However when they are translated back into Hebrew, it all makes sense.

What's an 'evil eye' in Greek? Nothing.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 04:16 PM)
You don't have to be sarcastic when even you tried to change the meaning

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

You implied sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law but that is not what it says. The word is sin there not sinner.
*
And? Sin is committed by what? Itself? Look away is not the same as turn away?
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:20 PM)
And? Sin is committed by what? Itself? Look away is not the same as turn away?
*
dude, don't contradict what you're saying here.

When you say sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, that is implying sinner having more conscious of guilt not unless you're agreeing with me that the law will cause them to commit more sin.

So which is it now? smile.gif
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:29 PM

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Thanks be to God for allowing the Holy Bible to be translated into the English language from its original written language, in order that an uneducated person like me can understand. As long as this poor man call and our Lord answers my call, I think that should be alright.

I have to say that I do admire others that go to the extreme in learning Hebrew or Greek, just to understand the Holy Bible in its original form. Well, as long as our God answers all of our call in times of distress, praise be to God.
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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 10 2019, 04:29 PM)
Thanks be to God for allowing the Holy Bible to be translated into the English language from its original written language, in order that an uneducated person like me can understand. As long as this poor man call and our Lord answers my call, I think that should be alright.

I have to say that I do admire others that go to the extreme in learning Hebrew or Greek, just to understand the Holy Bible in its original form. Well, as long as our God answers all of our call in times of distress, praise be to God.
*
Note of interest, google William Tyndale.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 04:26 PM)
dude, don't contradict what you're saying here.

When you say sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, that is implying sinner having more conscious of guilt not unless you're agreeing with me that the law will cause them to commit more sin.

So which is it now? smile.gif
*
Nope, I will not agree with you saying that the 10 Commandments causes them to commit more sin. Christians know the 10 Commandments, which is the most basic summary of God's moral teaching, which is even summed up further by Christ into two because the 10 Commandments in essence first 3 relates to God, the subsequent 7 relates to our neighbours. "He that is dead is justified from sin" (Rom 6:7)

St Paul having told the Romans they must be dead to sin, lead a new life. He now encourages them to it, by telling them, that what is required of them is not above their human strength, as it is assisted by those graces which God offers them, and which they have received, i.e. by being baptised in His death.

"But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered. 18Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice."

14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Some of the Roman Christians were formerly Jews observing the the Mosaic law., but now all of them are under grace, or the law of grace, where they may find pardon for their sins. Does it say anything about ignore the 10 Commandments? If yes, how could the apostle tell them "12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." If they do not know the 10 Commandments how would they know what is sin and what is not?

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Rom 5)

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. (Rom 5)
Here it says the law entered, not the one given. The law were not given purposely for sin to abound; but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin.

So are you still saying the 10 Commandments are not relevant anymore? Causes people to sin more? To make an analogy, it's like you are saying the traffic rules are given to cause drivers to break them more. Perverse indeed.
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 10 2019, 04:20 PM)
You have a tendency to cut and paste without links!  biggrin.gif

No. Nowadays we have Hebrew scholars who look at the sentence syntax and idioms, etc in the gospels, and some of them do not make any sense in Greek.
However when they are translated back into Hebrew, it all makes sense.

What's an 'evil eye' in Greek?  Nothing.
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But which book? Certainly not all the books?
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 10 2019, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:58 PM)
That's why I asked the simple questions which you are evading because I want to know the practical aspect of this statement.

1) Are the 10 Commandments irrelevant now?
2) Does the 10 commandments causes you to sin?

Supposing that we both agree God is the one who grants grace to the believer, I'm still waiting for your answers to the above.
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1. No.

2. No.

I have seen an end to all perfection, but Your commandment is without limit. Oh, how I love Your law! All day long it is my meditation. Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, for they are always...
-Psalm 119.97

For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.- Matt 5:18

Okay? you happy now?!


SUSAlan K.
post Oct 10 2019, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 10:59 AM)
2CHRONICLES.16:7-13 (NKJV) = Hanani’s Message to Asa

7

Illness and Death of Asa

11 Note that the acts of Asa, first and last, are indeed written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12 And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the Lord, but the physicians.

13 So Asa rested with his fathers; he died in the forty-first year of his reign.
.

MARK.5:25-34 = 25 Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for twelve years, 26 and had suffered many things from many physicians[/COLOR=blue]. She ha

snip*
_______ _______

As per MATTHEW.9:10-13, [COLOR=red]all Jews and Gentiles are born sinners and need the Great Physician to save them from hell when they die because of their inherited Adam's Original Sin - ROMANS.5:12 = believers become Christians.

But for such new Christians' remaining lives on earth before death and salvation actually occurs, Word/Law-abiding Christians who do not commit sins leading to death, especially Jewish Christians, do not need doctors or physicians for hospital treatment of serious illnesses/diseases, as per the 1st 2 Bible quotes above, because God will bless them with a good and long life on earth.
No one is perfect = even law-abiding Christians may occasionally commit unintentional or negligent sins not leading to death = may occasionally need to see a General Practioner doctor for treatment of a non-serious illness. IOW, they are not habitual sinners/law-breakers.
....... There is something very Spirit'ually wrong with a Christian wrt trust/faith in God and His Word/Law, when he/she has to see GP doctors very often or see hospitalization doctors for treatment of serious illnesses a few times, eg spiritual-baby Gentile Christians who never grew up or refused to grow up, eg because they are ignorant of God's laws/words.. .......


1COR.11:30-32 = 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
.

DEUT.28: = Curses on Disobedience

snip *
*
LoL are you serious??!! laugh.gif i know a few faithful Christians that have died early. In their 30's, early 50's, etc. Their testimonies are/were outstanding. I know a young lady in her early 30's, who's suffering from a relapse. She clings on to Jesus so closely. She grew up in Sunday school. All the above people are cancer victims.

Your sect of Christianity is certainly a very strange one. You a 7th-day Adventist or something?


Also, do not misuse Romans 5:12. Where does the Bible say we inherited Adam's ORIGINAL SIN? Ape mende ORIGINAL SIN tu hah?

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. - Deut 24:16

Yet you may ask, ‘Why shouldn’t the son bear the iniquity of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right, carefully observing all My statutes, he will surely live. 20The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. - Ezekiel 18:20

Everybody is responsible for their own sinfulness. We don't go to hell because of Adam's sin. We go to hell because WE choose to sin individually.

If i may add, i do not believe babies who die in infancy go to hell. Toddlers and the like.

The doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN is a sacred cow for people like you, but it's just a "theological construct".


QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 12:41 PM)
That is not right wrt God creating Man in His image with moral consciousness built-in. .......

GENESIS.2:16-17 = . 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

The moral consciousness of Man only came into him when Adam broke God's 1st-ever commandment/law by eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On top of that, this Original Sin caused Man to experience spiritual death(= bound for hell)and to be further cursed by God at GENESIS.3:14-19, eg Man has to suffer spiritual enmity with Satan = Satan can occasionally plant sinful/evil thoughts in his heart and mind, eg immoral sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc, ... in order to get him to voluntarily commit sins, especially for him to commit grave sins and die young so that Satan/demons can eat his decaying body as it returns to dust.


you are..............borderline mad!

ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.


In general, people without God's Law, even though they have moral consciousness or the knowledge of good and evil, are carnal and will often fall into Satan's testing and temptations, go and commit sins or lawlessness willfully = hence we have a mostly rotten world since GENESIS.4. For Christians, the right antidote or medicine for this spiritual problem is as per MATTHEW.4:1-11 = Jesus Christ, filled with the Holy Spirit of God, overcame Satan's testing and temptations with the Word of God quoted from the Old Testament, and not with moral consciousness = Word/Law-abiding Christians walking in the Spirit who do not wallow in the mud of sins/law-breaking like pigs.

Should the Church be without any laws/rules and regulations/order of service, and just rely on the Christian members' moral consciousness to do what is good.?
Should a country be without any laws and just rely on her citizens' moral consciousness to do what is good.?

.

1COR.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The apostle Paul stated that many new Gentile Christian adults(= Corinthian Christians) were formerly serious law-breakers/sinners when they were carnal and lawless Gentiles. .He warned them not to return to their former sins/law-breaking and continue in the sins. If they did, they would have lost their inheritance in the kingdom of God, eg if a Gentile Christian today willfully return to the sin of homosexual-sex and sodomy unrepentantly, he will likely get HIV+, and then lose faith and salvation while dying horribly from AIDS and/or other STDs. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God - HEB.10:26-31.
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Ok, sorry you are not just borderline, you are a complete nut case! biggrin.gif
yeeck
post Oct 10 2019, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 10 2019, 06:30 PM)
The doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN is a sacred cow for people like you, but it's just a "theological construct".
Ok, sorry you are not just borderline, you are a complete nut case!  biggrin.gif
*
Original sin is accepted by many Protestant groups too.

Original sin in Protestantism
Although Martin Luther held the view that scripture alone should be the basis of Christian doctrine, the second article in Lutheranism's Augsburg Confession, much like the Catholic tradition, accepted the basic Augustinian formula of original sin:

Since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers’ wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit.[2]

Luther and Calvin agreed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. Man is thus completely depraved, and only God's grace, through faith in Christ, can save him. Later, the Methodist Church, tended to see a greater role for human free will in the process of salvation and spiritual growth, but nevertheless upheld the idea that: "Original sin standeth not in the [mere] following of Adam (as the Pelagians do vainly talk), but it is the corruption of the nature of every man, that naturally is engendered of the offspring of Adam, whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness…."[3]

The Radical Reformation, including Anabaptists and Baptists, adopted a less strict notion of original sin in rejecting the tradition of infant baptism. By insisting on the principle of believer's baptism, the radical reformers tended to imply that God would not doom young children to Hell. Thus, humans were not necessarily so depraved as to merit damnation from birth, a very different view from Augustine's.

Several Restoration Movement churches of the Second Great Awakening not only rejected infant baptism but overtly denied the notion of original sin, believing that men and women are personally responsible only for the sins that they themselves commit. However, many Restoration churches and their members do believe that Adam's sin resulted in a depraved human nature—that is, in a tendency to sin—even though individuals are not guilty of Adam's sin.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/...n_Protestantism
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 10 2019, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 02:24 AM)
[i] Please elaborate on what is not right.

Trusting in Jesus Christ saves us from hell (= inherit eternal life in the kingdom of heaven) when we die = resurrection or rapture, then live 1,000 years with Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) on a new earth before finally meeting God in His true form(EZEK.1, REV.4) in His kingdom of heaven.

snip*
*
secret rapture? 7 years tribulation? literal millennial kingdom? then only Heaven? how about bringing back temple sacrifices AFTER the Cross?

You can't even get basic Christian doctrine right, & you come in here teaching the Bible?

premillennialism dispensationalism is pseudo Christianity.

preterism amillennialism is solid biblical teaching.


Anyway, whether you are 7th-day or Katolik, a good day to you.
SUSTheRant
post Oct 10 2019, 08:15 PM

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SUSAlan K.
post Oct 10 2019, 08:20 PM

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Oct 11 2019, 08:14 AM
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SUSTheRant
post Oct 10 2019, 08:29 PM

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SUSafretils P
post Oct 10 2019, 09:54 PM

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SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 10 2019, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
How does one know? Since the beginning of time when God created Man in his image, that comes together with moral conscious built in. Even before the 10 commandment was given, Man and woman already know what is wrong, what is fear, etc.


QUOTE(lurkingaround)
That is not right wrt God creating Man in His image with moral consciousness built-in. .......

GENESIS.2:16-17 = . 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

The moral consciousness of Man only came into him when Adam broke God's 1st-ever commandment/law by eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

.
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
No, that is where you are wrong. Before adam took the fruit, God already told Him of what is wrong with eating that one forbidden fruit. Adam fully understood that.

.
QUOTE(lurkingaround)
GENESIS.3:6-7 (NKJV) = 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

The Word of God says you are wrong. Adam only knew that human nakedess was evil/bad(= unlike the good or clothed image of God) after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not before Adam took the fruit.
....... IOW, Adam only gained moral consciousness of good and evil only after he took the fruit, not before.
.
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
Erm Nope. they fully understood what was said by God. they knew it would be wrong.

Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV)
…2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’

Err Nope. Adam and Eve only knew it would be wrong because God had said His 1st-ever commandment to Adam, ie GENESIS.2:16-17 = 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” They knew not because of any built-in moral consciousness when they were created by God. They knew this commandment from God but they did not know the reason behind it because they did not have the knowledge of good and evil. Same reason they did not know that their nakedness was evil/bad, unlike the fully-clothed God or His image.

Again the Word of God says you are wrong, .......


GENESIS.3:22 = 22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

Good day.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 11 2019, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K)
Also, do not misuse Romans 5:12. Where does the Bible say we inherited Adam's ORIGINAL SIN? Ape mende ORIGINAL SIN tu hah?

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. - Deut 24:16

Yet you may ask, ‘Why shouldn’t the son bear the iniquity of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right, carefully observing all My statutes, he will surely live. 20The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. - Ezekiel 18:20

Everybody is responsible for their own sinfulness. We don't go to hell because of Adam's sin. We go to hell because WE choose to sin individually.

If i may add, i do not believe babies who die in infancy go to hell. Toddlers and the like.

The doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN is a sacred cow for people like you, but it's just a "theological construct".

ROMANS.5:12-15 (NKJV) = Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
.

1COR.15:21-22 & 45 = 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

.
EXODUS.20:4-6 = 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
_______ _______

ROMANS.5:12-15, 1COR.15:21-22 & 45 show very clearly there is Adam's Original Sin which every of his descendants has inherited = spiritual death = bound for hell when they die = they need a 2nd Adam or Christ to save them from hell.
.
EXODUS.20:4-6 says that the sin of idolatry committed by the father against God will befall on the children/sons down to the 4th generation.
....... DEUT.24:16, EZEK.18:20 about fathers and sons bearing their own sins were likely referring to sins against others/neighbors like murder, adultery, stealing, etc, and not referring to sins against God.
.
.

Btw, did your cancer-stricken Christian friends buy health or life insurance.? I believe God does not look too kindly on His people who trust or rely on insurance more than Him, eg Job and his wife were striken with sicknesses because he had ignorantly tried to buy prosperity insurance from God to cover for his sons' probable sins/evil-deeds - JOB.1:5 & 3:25. So sad. sad.gif

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 11 2019, 07:37 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 08:15 AM)
This is where you misunderstand as proven right what I said the 1st time, people put their words into my mouth.

You think when I say look away = go ahead to sin.

How does one know? Since the beginning of time when God created Man in his image, that comes together with moral conscious built in. Even before the 10 commandment was given, Man and woman already know what is wrong, what is fear, etc.

And as written in Hebrews 10:15-16, same thing.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.

I will put My laws in their hearts

and inscribe them on their minds.”b


I do think every Christians already know the 10 commandments. Even unbelievers have heard of it. So to say how to know is really a misnomer.
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HEBREWS.8:7-13 (NKJV) = A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
_______ _______

We have to cross-reference HEB.10:15-16 with HEB.8:7-13 to get the true interpretation and correct context.
....... God made His Old Covenant with the Jews through Moses. Then God originally made His New Covenant with the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah through Jesus Christ, and not with the Gentiles. The Jews were already well-versed with His laws/commandments, not with the Gentiles. The New Covenant was later extended to the Gentiles through apostle Paul.

So, "My laws" at HEBREWS above referred to the 613 laws of Moses Law as applied to the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah, and not just the well-known 10 Commandments or built-in moral consciousness as applied to later Gentile believers.

For Gentile Christians, God had lovingly exempted them from the burdensome parts of Moses Law or His laws at ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4, eg they did not have to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, etc. God required them to begin their new born-again spiritual babes-in-Christ lives by keeping just 4 simple, non-burdensome or essential laws of Moses, ie avoid eating blood, strangled animal sacrifice, foods offered to idols and committing sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, especially morality laws, eg the 10 Commandments, DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9, etc. This was how God implanted His laws into the hearts and minds of most new Gentile Christians adults.

In comparison, having easily implanted His laws, God required new Jewish Christians like the 12 apostles, to continue to keep His laws, as many of the 613 laws as possible, because they were not a burden to them.

Before conversion, most Gentiles do not know the actual 10 Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17, even though they may have heard about it.


ROMANS.11:16-24 said that the Gentiles had been the branch of a wild olive tree that was grafted into the Jews' branch of a natural olive tree; and warned that Gentile Christians could be cut off from the grafted wild branch if they did not continue in His goodness = they continued in Satan's evilness or lawlessness - cf; 1COR.6:9-11.

It is common sense that God could easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of believing Jews, compared to believing Gentiles because most Gentiles had led wild or lawless lives from childhood - cf; 2TIM.3:14-17. It is false to say that God can easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of new Gentile Christians because they had been born with moral consciousness and the 10 Commandments is well known among the Gentile public.

.
.
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 10 2019, 08:15 AM)
I do think every Christians already know the 10 commandments. Even unbelievers have heard of it. So to say how to know is really a misnomer. When scripture says that 10 commandments = Ministry of death, basically, what God is saying, you will NEVER be able to justify yourself in being righteous by his laws because God's law was never design to make anyone holy or to save them. But the reverse, the more you try to adhere to it, trespasses will abound even more..meaning the more you try the more you will end up sinning.
Romans 3:20 (KJV) - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Am I saying God's law = Sin?

No. God's law is holy but it becomes death for anyone who thinks they can self justify thought it because God's standard is just too high.

People just forget, our righteousness is as dirty as a women sanitary napkin.
Read this through and you'll know what I say is correct.
Romans 7:7-25

God’s Law Is Holy

7What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”a 8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.

12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Struggling with Sin

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

What Romans 7:8 is saying, Sin is only alive through God's law and not anywhere else.  (1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.)

Look at verse 25!

That is why I say...look away from OT God's law and look to Christ.
*
ROMANS.5:12-21 = Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
_______ _______

Again, ROMANS.7:25 has to be cross-referenced back to ROMANS.5:12-21, in order to get the true interpretation, ie Man could only be saved from hell or spiritual death that was caused by Adam's Original Sin, by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not by keeping the Law.

GAL.3:24 said that the Law only served to bring the Jews to Christ for salvation through justification by faith. IOW, the Law is useless when it comes to salvation or if a person wants to be saved from hell when he/she dies. But this fact about salvation does not mean that the Law has been destroyed or done away with by Jesus Christ because the Law is still needed to help guide a Christian's remaining life on earth, especially for God to implant His non-burdensome laws into the heart and mind of the new Gentile Christian, as per HEB.8:10-11.
.

We need to differentiate between involuntary sinning-in-thoughts and voluntary sinning-in-deeds. Eg of the former = immoral thoughts/desires of sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear/worry, doubt, etc. Eg of the latter = murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, etc. The former sin may lead to or bear fruit into the latter sins.The spiritual source of the involuntary former sin is Satan through the resultant curse of Adam's Original Sin.
....... The former involuntary sinning-in-thoughts results in Man being hell-bound or spiritual death after physical death. The latter voluntary sinning-in-deeds results in being cursed by God with a calamitous, sad and short life on earth. The cure for both sin-problems is the Word(= including His laws/commandments) or Jesus Christ.


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 10:43 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 05:11 PM)
Nope, I will not agree with you saying that the 10 Commandments causes them to commit more sin. Christians know the 10 Commandments, which is the most basic summary of God's moral teaching, which is even summed up further by Christ into two because the 10 Commandments in essence first 3 relates to God, the subsequent 7 relates to our neighbours. "He that is dead is justified from sin" (Rom 6:7)

St Paul having told the Romans they must be dead to sin, lead a new life. He now encourages them to it, by telling them, that what is required of them is not above their human strength, as it is assisted by those graces which God offers them, and which they have received, i.e. by being baptised in His death.

"But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered. 18Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice."

14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Some of the Roman Christians were formerly Jews observing the the Mosaic law., but now all of them are under grace, or the law of grace, where they may find pardon for their sins. Does it say anything about ignore the 10 Commandments? If yes, how could the apostle tell them "12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." If they do not know the 10 Commandments how would they know what is sin and what is not?

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Rom 5)

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. (Rom 5)
Here it says the law entered, not the one given. The law were not given purposely for sin to abound; but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin.

So are you still saying the 10 Commandments are not relevant anymore? Causes people to sin more? To make an analogy, it's like you are saying the traffic rules are given to cause drivers to break them more. Perverse indeed.
*
Don't side track. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. When you like to claim others of interpretation problem, seems like you're the one trying very hard to make what Romans 5:20 is not saying.

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

It is what it is, the word sin there in the Greek is Harmatia which means missing the mark (action).

It is not sinner having guilt of sin and neither is the word entered differs from the one given in mount sinai. It is NOT referring to any other laws but the law of the OT. It is the very same sin that talks about the fall of Man. Don't believe me? Read the whole references from Romans 5:12-21.

If you are ever so bold to think you can change the meaning of God's word, then do tell all of us in here, the phrase entered in refers to which law? go ahead answer that.

Besides, what you said on Romans 6:14 (KJV) 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Testify this to be true. Sin is only empowered under law. The word for in the Greek = Gar which basically means "Because", meaning don't bound yourself to it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 09:08 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 11:01 PM)
.

.
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
Erm Nope. they fully understood what was said by God. they knew it would be wrong.

Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV)
…2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’

Err Nope. Adam and Eve only knew it would be wrong because God had said His 1st-ever commandment to Adam, ie GENESIS.2:16-17 = 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” They knew not because of any built-in moral consciousness when they were created by God. They knew this commandment from God but they did not know the reason behind it because they did not have the knowledge of good and evil. Same reason they did not know that their nakedness was evil/bad, unlike the fully-clothed God or His image.

Again the Word of God says you are wrong, .......


GENESIS.3:22 = 22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

Good day.
*
You do understand the meaning of right and wrong vs good evil and the difference of it?

They understood that it is wrong to eat, they knew they would die. Maybe I can paraphrase this, if God told them if they cut themselves with sharp object and told them they will bleed, that is what they understood. Reason is another matter altogether, though I understand what you're trying to say. If you want to claim they were too innocent to know what is what, I would beg to differ because Adam was brought by God to see what he would name each creature created. That shows Adam understand what was ask from God and wasn't just a passive robotic don't know what is what.

Prior to the fall, I believe they were not truly naked in a sense, they were covered with God's glory.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 08:47 AM
prophetjul
post Oct 11 2019, 08:26 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 05:15 PM)
But which book? Certainly not all the books?
*
I mentioned above.....at least the gospels were written originally in Hebrew.
Epistles, not so sure.

Certainly not written in Latin! biggrin.gif
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post Oct 11 2019, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 07:37 AM)
HEBREWS.8:7-13 (NKJV) = A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
_______ _______

We have to cross-reference HEB.10:15-16 with HEB.8:7-13 to get the true interpretation and correct context.
....... God made His Old Covenant with the Jews through Moses. Then God originally made His New Covenant with the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah through Jesus Christ, and not with the Gentiles. The Jews were already well-versed with His laws/commandments, not with the Gentiles. The New Covenant was later extended to the Gentiles through apostle Paul.

So, "My laws" at HEBREWS above referred to the 613 laws of Moses Law as applied to the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah, and not just the well-known 10 Commandments or built-in moral consciousness as applied to later Gentile believers.

For Gentile Christians, God had lovingly exempted them from the burdensome parts of Moses Law or His laws at ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4, eg they did not have to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, etc. God required them to begin their new born-again spiritual babes-in-Christ lives by  keeping just 4 simple, non-burdensome or essential laws of Moses, ie avoid eating blood, strangled animal sacrifice, foods offered to idols and committing sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, especially morality laws, eg the 10 Commandments, DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9, etc. This was how God implanted His laws into the hearts and minds of most new Gentile Christians adults.

In comparison, having easily implanted His laws, God required new Jewish Christians like the 12 apostles, to continue to keep His laws, as many of the 613 laws as possible, because they were not a burden to them.

Before conversion, most Gentiles do not know the actual 10 Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17, even though they may have heard about it.
ROMANS.11:16-24 said that the Gentiles had been the branch of a wild olive tree that was grafted into the Jews' branch of a natural olive tree; and warned that Gentile Christians could be cut off from the grafted wild branch if they did not continue in His goodness = they continued in Satan's evilness or lawlessness - cf; 1COR.6:9-11.

It is common sense that God could easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of believing Jews, compared to believing Gentiles because most Gentiles had led wild or lawless lives from childhood - cf; 2TIM.3:14-17. It is false to say that God can easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of new Gentile Christians because they had been born with moral consciousness and the 10 Commandments is well known among the Gentile public.

.
.
*
That is not true. Paul rebuked on the matter of circumcision of them still trying to adhere to one of the 613 laws. Where do you get your theology from?

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post Oct 11 2019, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 07:37 AM)
But this fact about salvation does not mean that the Law has been destroyed or done away with by Jesus Christ because  the Law is still needed to help guide a Christian's remaining life on earth, especially for God to implant His non-burdensome laws into the heart and mind of the new Gentile Christian, as per HEB.8:10-11.
.

We need to differentiate between involuntary sinning-in-thoughts and voluntary sinning-in-deeds. Eg of the former = immoral thoughts/desires of sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear/worry, doubt, etc. Eg of the latter = murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, etc. The former sin may lead to or bear fruit into the latter sins.The spiritual source of the involuntary former sin is Satan through the resultant curse of Adam's Original Sin.
....... The former involuntary sinning-in-thoughts results in Man being hell-bound or spiritual death after physical death. The latter voluntary sinning-in-deeds results in being cursed by God with a calamitous, sad and short life on earth. The cure for both sin-problems is the Word(= including His laws/commandments) or Jesus Christ.{/I]
*
I don't agree. You need to study more for the purpose and the design of God's law. as to what I'm arguing with Yeeck.

As for Guidance on morality of course we don't transgress against what is written in the 10 commandment but my point we no longer look to it as a point of justification. Why? because it was never design for that but the opposite. With that being said, we need to look away from it

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 09:48 AM
desmond2020
post Oct 11 2019, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 11 2019, 08:26 AM)
I mentioned above.....at least the gospels were written originally in Hebrew.
Epistles, not so sure.

Certainly not written in Latin!  biggrin.gif
*
Well, all the apostles are jews so it is obvious that gonna be in hebrew
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 10 2019, 06:30 PM)
Everybody is responsible for their own sinfulness. We don't go to hell because of Adam's sin. We go to hell because WE choose to sin individually.
*
While it is true we are responsible for our sin but it is also true, we are all fallen because of Adam's sin.

Read on verse that says death came through the one man adam.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 10:18 AM
desmond2020
post Oct 11 2019, 10:26 AM

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BTW

The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Romans 7:10‭-‬21‭, ‬23‭-‬25 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.7.10-25.ESV
yeeck
post Oct 11 2019, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Oct 11 2019, 10:02 AM)
Well, all the apostles are jews so it is obvious that gonna be in hebrew
*
Not necessarily. Depends on who they are writing to. Example if Paul wrote to the Romans, it is more likely Greek.
yeeck
post Oct 11 2019, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 08:13 AM)
Don't side track. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. When you like to claim others of interpretation problem, seems like you're the one trying very hard to make what Romans 5:20 is not saying.

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

It is what it is, the word sin there in the Greek is Harmatia which means missing the mark (action).

It is not sinner having guilt of sin and neither is the word entered differs from the one given in mount sinai. It is NOT referring to any other laws but the law of the OT. It is the very same sin that talks about the fall of Man. Don't believe me? Read the whole references from Romans 5:12-21.

If you are ever so bold to think you can change the meaning of God's word, then do tell all of us in here, the phrase entered in refers to which law? go ahead answer that.

Besides, what you said on Romans 6:14 (KJV) 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Testify this to be true. Sin is only empowered under law. The word for in the Greek = Gar which basically means "Because", meaning don't bound yourself to it.
*
Who's sidetracking here? Asked you simple questions still evading until now and then get triggered because of a common saying.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 11 2019, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround)
.For Gentile Christians, God had lovingly exempted them from the burdensome parts of Moses Law or His laws at ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4, eg they did not have to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, etc. God required them to begin their new born-again spiritual babes-in-Christ lives by  keeping just 4 simple, non-burdensome or essential laws of Moses, ie avoid eating blood, strangled animal sacrifice, foods offered to idols and committing sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, especially morality laws, eg the 10 Commandments, DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9, etc. This was how God implanted His laws into the hearts and minds of most new Gentile Christians adults.

In comparison, having easily implanted His laws, God required new Jewish Christians like the 12 apostles, to continue to keep His laws, as many of the 613 laws as possible, because they were not a burden to them.

.
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 08:46 AM)
That is not true. Paul rebuked on the matter of circumcision of them still trying to adhere to one of the 613 laws. Where do you get your theology from?
*
ACTS.21:20-25 (NKJV) = . 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
.

GAL.2:6-14 = . 6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.

No Return to the Law

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
_______ _______

Paul, John, Peter and James were Jewish Christians who continued to keep the Law. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was against James and his party in Jerusalem(= the Judaizers) going around the Jewish diaspora requiring new Gentile Christians to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law = 613 laws.
....... Paul did not rebuke new Jewish Christians for circumcising their male babies or keeping all of Moses Law. If you think so, you are in error. In fact, Paul even circumcised his disciple Timothy who was half-Jewish. Even today, many US Gentile Christians circumcise their male babies like the Jews, ... but not circumcise them as GC adults, as had been pushed by the Judaizers, led by James. .......

"Many countries with majorities of Christian adherents have low circumcision rates (as in Europe and South America), while both religious and non-religious circumcision is common in some predominantly Christian countries such as the United States, and the Philippines, Canada, and in North Africa and West Africa."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_male_circumcision
.
.
.
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
You do understand the meaning of right and wrong vs good evil and the difference of it?

They are the same in the sight or eyes of God. .......

DEUT.6:18-19 =. 18 And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the Lord, that it may be well with you, and that you may go in and possess the good land of which the Lord swore to your fathers, 19 to cast out all your enemies from before you, as the Lord has spoken.

DEUT.12:8-9 = 8 “You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— 9 for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you.
.

Moral conscience in Man came from him breaking good God's commandment by eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, at the behest of evil Satan who cunningly impersonated a snake which can speak, ... and not from being built-into him when Adam was created by God. All goodness and righteousness come from God. All evilness and wrongness come from Satan.
....... It's like a good scientist wanting to create a perfect robot with perfect progamming codes. But an evil hacker came along to put in imperfect programming codes in the robot causing it to fall and fail. So, the scientist had to use an anti-virus program to wash away the evil hacker's virus or malware, in order to save his robot.

The Bible has shown the errors of those who had based their lives on their own corruptible moral conscience of what is right and good in their own eyes, and not on what is right and good in the eyes of God = His Word/Law/laws/commandments.
....... These self-righteous Jews and Christians were not much different from the demonic adherents of today's New Age philosophy being taught in many liberal colleges/universities, where all truths are subjective and not objective = everyone is right and good in his/her own eyes........


JUDGES.17:5-6 = 5 The man Micah had a shrine, and made an ephod and household idols; and he consecrated one of his sons, who became his priest. 6 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

PROVERBS.12:15 = 15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But he who heeds counsel is wise.

1TIM.4:1-3 = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 11 2019, 11:50 AM)
Who's sidetracking here? Asked you simple questions still evading until now and then get triggered because of a common saying.
*
You are trying to side track this

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

It is, what it is. Through the law, sin /transgress/ offense might abound.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 01:12 PM)
.

ACTS.21:20-25 (NKJV) = . 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
.

GAL.2:6-14 = . 6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.

No Return to the Law

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
_______ _______

Paul, John, Peter and James were Jewish Christians who continued to keep the Law. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was against James and his party in Jerusalem(= the Judaizers) going around the Jewish diaspora requiring new Gentile Christians to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law = 613 laws.
....... Paul did not rebuke new Jewish Christians for circumcising their male babies or keeping all of Moses Law. If you think so, you are in error. In fact, Paul even circumcised his disciple Timothy who was half-Jewish. Even today, many US Gentile Christians circumcise their male babies like the Jews, ... but not circumcise them as GC adults, as had been pushed by the Judaizers, led by James. .......

"Many countries with majorities of Christian adherents have low circumcision rates (as in Europe and South America), while both religious and non-religious circumcision is common in some predominantly Christian countries such as the United States, and the Philippines, Canada, and in North Africa and West Africa."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_male_circumcision
*
Galatians 5:1-4

1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

2 Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


Read it's meaning. It's interesting the phrase Yoke of slavery is mentioned here together with the phrase circumcision. You either look to the law or you look to God's Grace, there's no two mixture. Circumcision is mentioned here it's one of the 613 laws. Christ would be of no value, look at this strong emphasis. It's either God's law you are justified or God's Grace.

Sorry.

QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
You do understand the meaning of right and wrong vs good evil and the difference of it?

They are the same in the sight or eyes of God. .......
snip
*
Irrelevant. Point is, Adam and Eve fully understood what is what. Right and wrong..Yes comes from God hence stands with what I said, the moment they were created in his image, that is built in.
The knowledge of good and evil on the other hand gives us the "KNOWLEDGE" of what is good and what is evil and yet the conscious decision to act, still was something already embedded.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 01:49 PM
yeeck
post Oct 11 2019, 01:30 PM

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Oct 11 2019, 01:45 PM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No judgemental attack

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 11 2019, 01:30 PM)
That sin might abound. Not as if the law were given purposely for sin to abound; but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin.
*
You spew one more judgmental phrase on me, you will be deemed as overstaying your welcome. Don't degrade yourself to what you say on sylar, I take this to be no difference.
This is my last warning to you. Go ahead do it one more time, you will not be welcome in here. Over here we want friendly fellowship, no you being holier than others, thinking your Catholic Doctrine is the only correct doctrine.

Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

1 Corinthians 15:56 (KJV) - The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

Romans 7:8 (KJV) - But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

What do you understand on Romans 7:8? without the law, sin is dead?

In summary.

God's law empower sin, without the law sin is powerless or dead. That is scripture.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 01:54 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 02:08 PM

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Rule No.5 added to 1st page. Take note guys.

No more all these threatening with the phrase hell or calling others with judgement. Nobody in here is qualified to do that. Only God can.
yeeck
post Oct 11 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 01:33 PM)
God's law empower sin, without the law sin is powerless or dead. That is scripture.
*
That's your own interpretation.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 11 2019, 02:13 PM)
That's your own interpretation.
*
Read it yourself.


Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

1 Corinthians 15:56 (KJV) - The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

Romans 7:8 (KJV) - But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Which part of those verses too difficult for you to understand? Which part of it, is my own interpretation? Which part of it, says otherwise?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 03:08 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 11 2019, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround)
ACTS.21:20-25 (NKJV) = . 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 01:25 PM)
Galatians 5:1-4

1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

2 Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


Read it's meaning. It's interesting the phrase Yoke of slavery is mentioned here together with the phrase circumcision. You either look to the law or you look to God's Grace, there's no two mixture. Circumcision is mentioned here it's one of the 613 laws. Christ would be of no value, look at this strong emphasis. It's either God's law you are justified or God's Grace.

Sorry but your exegesis is wrong.
They are the same in the sight or eyes of God. .......
snip
*
Fyi, Paul was addressing Gentile Christians at your quote of GAL.5:1-4, and not addressing Jewish Christians. At GAL.2:11-14, the early Jewish Christians cuum Judaizers from Jerusalem had tried to compel new Gentile Christian adults in Galatia to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law, in order to become "true" Christians like the Judaizers and be saved from hell. Paul was totally against the Judaizers' wrong teaching because Christians were not saved by keeping the Law but by believing in Jesus Christ.

The above controversy had later been settled at the Jerusalem Council of ACTS.15:19-29 = new Gentile Christians were exempted from the burdensome or non-essential parts of Moses Law or God's laws, eg liberated from the law of circumcision, law of kosher/clean foods, etc. OTOH, they were required to begin their born-again Spirit'ual lives by keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws of Moses, in order to do well on earth. Then they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, so as to do even better on earth. Otherwise, they would do worse on earth - JOHN.5:14 & 8:11, 1COR.6:9-11 = "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

As per ROMANS.14:1-4, Gentile Christians were at liberty to not keep or keep these burdensome or non-essential laws = they may or may not circumcise their male babies, eat only kosher/clean foods, keep Sabbath on Sunday only(not other days), etc.
....... Seems, you are misinterpreting GAL.5 to advocate both Jewish and Gentile Christians to always not keep the law of circumcision and all other non-burdensome laws of Moses. That's being too judgmental of other Christians' liberty in non-essential or burdensome laws.......


GAL.5:13-15 = 13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
.
.
.
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
.Prior to the fall, I believe they were not truly naked in a sense, they were covered with God's glory. ....
.
Irrelevant. Point is, Adam and Eve fully understood what is what. Right and wrong..Yes comes from God hence stands with what I said, the moment they were created in his image, that is built in.
The knowledge of good and evil on the other hand gives us the "KNOWLEDGE" of what is good and what is evil and yet the conscious decision to act, still was something already embedded.
Where in the Bible does it says that when Adam and Eve were created by God, they were both covered with God's glory = were not naked.?

How come they were only ashamed after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not before, ie if they already had built-in moral conscience of right and wrong when they were created?
.......

GENESIS.2:25 = 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

GENESIS.1:31 = . 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

At GENESIS.1, God created everything as good, not evil or wrong, eg animals do not know what is evil or wrong. So, it is erroneous to say that God created Adam with the built-in knowledge of good and evil or the moral conscience of right and wrong.

Like I said before, Adam and Eve only knew that they were not supposed to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil when God gave Adam the commandment. If God had not given them the commandment, they would not have known it was evil or wrong of them to eat the fruit. Before the Fall, they saw everything as neutral, neither good nor evil or right nor wrong, like a robot.
....... They erred and fell by not believing in their good God's commandment/Word, and instead believing in the words/lies of evil Satan who impersonated as a talking snake. The main problem with Man lies here, ie believing in the wrong person and his words/lies/deceits, and not with their moral conscience of right and wrong or knowledge of good and evil. Eg God says doing this is evil and wrong but Satan says doing the same thing is good and right. .......


ISAIAH.5:20-21 =
20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
.

Good day.

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 03:21 PM)
Fyi, Paul was addressing Gentile Christians at your quote of GAL.5:1-4, and not addressing Jewish Christians. At GAL.2:11-14, the early Jewish Christians cuum Judaizers from Jerusalem had tried to compel new Gentile Christian adults in Galatia to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law, in order to become "true" Christians like the Judaizers and be saved from hell. Paul was totally against the Judaizers' wrong teaching because Christians were not saved by keeping the Law but by believing in Jesus Christ.

The above controversy had later been settled at the Jerusalem Council of ACTS.15:19-29 = new Gentile Christians were exempted from the burdensome or non-essential parts of Moses Law or God's laws, eg liberated from the law of circumcision, law of kosher/clean foods, etc. OTOH, they were required to begin their born-again Spirit'ual lives by keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws of Moses, in order to do well on earth. Then they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, so as to do even better on earth. Otherwise, they would do worse on earth - JOHN.5:14 & 8:11, 1COR.6:9-11 = "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

As per ROMANS.14:1-4, Gentile Christians were at liberty to not keep or keep these burdensome or non-essential laws = they may or may not circumcise their male babies, eat only kosher/clean foods, keep Sabbath on Sunday only(not other days), etc.
....... Seems, you are misinterpreting GAL.5 to advocate both Jewish and Gentile Christians to always not keep the law of circumcision and all other non-burdensome laws of Moses. That's being too judgmental of other Christians' liberty in non-essential or burdensome laws.......


GAL.5:13-15 = 13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
*
Read this in verse 6

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love. <---Meaning those who belong to Christ Jesus then read this

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.


QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 03:21 PM)
QUOTE(unknownwarrior)
.Prior to the fall, I believe they were not truly naked in a sense, they were covered with God's glory. ....
.
Irrelevant. Point is, Adam and Eve fully understood what is what. Right and wrong..Yes comes from God hence stands with what I said, the moment they were created in his image, that is built in.
The knowledge of good and evil on the other hand gives us the "KNOWLEDGE" of what is good and what is evil and yet the conscious decision to act, still was something already embedded.
Where in the Bible does it says that when Adam and Eve were created by God, they were both covered with God's glory = were not naked.?

How come they were only ashamed after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not before, ie if they already had built-in moral conscience of right and wrong when they were created?
.......

GENESIS.2:25 = 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

GENESIS.1:31 = . 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

At GENESIS.1, God created everything as good, not evil or wrong, eg animals do not know what is evil or wrong. So, it is erroneous to say that God created Adam with the built-in knowledge of good and evil or the moral conscience of right and wrong.

Like I said before, Adam and Eve only knew that they were not supposed to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil when God gave Adam the commandment. If God had not given them the commandment, they would not have known it was evil or wrong of them to eat the fruit. Before the Fall, they saw everything as neutral, neither good nor evil or right nor wrong, like a robot.
....... They erred and fell by not believing in their good God's commandment/Word, and instead believing in the words/lies of evil Satan who impersonated as a talking snake. The main problem with Man lies here, ie believing in the wrong person and his words/lies/deceits, and not with their moral conscience of right and wrong or knowledge of good and evil. Eg God says doing this is evil and wrong but Satan says doing the same thing is good and right. .......


ISAIAH.5:20-21 =
20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
.

Good day.
*
That's not right. As I said before, they were not created like Robots, Ive mentioned to you how Adam was brought to God's created creatures and on his own, Adam gave them names. he understood what was asked of God. He and Eve also understood God said they will die, so that debunks the notion of robots.

As For they were covered in God's Glory..ie reference to God's Light..Il get back to you.


pehkay
post Oct 11 2019, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 03:21 PM)
Fyi, Paul was addressing Gentile Christians at your quote of GAL.5:1-4, and not addressing Jewish Christians. At GAL.2:11-14, the early Jewish Christians cuum Judaizers from Jerusalem had tried to compel new Gentile Christian adults in Galatia to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law, in order to become "true" Christians like the Judaizers and be saved from hell. Paul was totally against the Judaizers' wrong teaching because Christians were not saved by keeping the Law but by believing in Jesus Christ.

The above controversy had later been settled at the Jerusalem Council of ACTS.15:19-29 = new Gentile Christians were exempted from the burdensome or non-essential parts of Moses Law or God's laws, eg liberated from the law of circumcision, law of kosher/clean foods, etc. OTOH, they were required to begin their born-again Spirit'ual lives by keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws of Moses, in order to do well on earth. Then they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, so as to do even better on earth. Otherwise, they would do worse on earth - JOHN.5:14 & 8:11, 1COR.6:9-11 = "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."

As per ROMANS.14:1-4, Gentile Christians were at liberty to not keep or keep these burdensome or non-essential laws = they may or may not circumcise their male babies, eat only kosher/clean foods, keep Sabbath on Sunday only(not other days), etc.
....... Seems, you are misinterpreting GAL.5 to advocate both Jewish and Gentile Christians to always not keep the law of circumcision and all other non-burdensome laws of Moses. That's being too judgmental of other Christians' liberty in non-essential or burdensome laws.......


GAL.5:13-15 = 13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
.
.
With all other things, while we can learn apostle Paul to be very liberal and general with the non-essentials thing, it is still a frustration to the God's New Testament
economy.

The decision made by the conference of the apostles and elders in Acts 15 to solve the problem concerning circumcision was not fully satisfactory to him. Therefore, in going to Jerusalem, Paul might have intended to clear up the Judaic influence on the church there. However, God had His own way to deal with the situation. In His sovereignty He allowed Paul to be arrested by the Jews and imprisoned by the Romans. He then allowed the terrible mixture of the grace with the law in Jerusalem to remain until the city was destroyed by Titus with his Roman army in A.D. 70. That mixture was terminated approximately ten years after the events recorded in Acts 21. It is with this, the Jewish mixture lost its influences as time goes.

Secondly, the Lord knew what was in Paul’s heart. He also knew that Paul was faithful but was not able to help the situation. Instead of helping it, Paul was trapped in it by compromising with it. However, the Lord used the uproar described in 21:27-23:15 to rescue Paul. The Jews seized him and were seeking to kill him (21:30-31). But a commander of the Roman cohort intervened, laid hold of him, ordered him to be bound with chains, and inquired concerning the situation (21:31-33).

In His sovereignty the Lord caused Paul to have a dispensational transfer. Paul was in favor of such a transfer. He came to Jerusalem with the positive intention and strong purpose to help the believers there to experience this dispensational transfer. However, instead of helping them, he himself was eventually trapped in a situation of mixture and compromise. If Paul would have gone with the Nazarite ritual, it will invalide everything he said. Thus his imprisonment was of the Lord's soverighty in rescuing him.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 11 2019, 05:08 PM
yeeck
post Oct 11 2019, 05:55 PM

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Oct 11 2019, 10:06 PM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: Irrelevant

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 11 2019, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 11 2019, 05:55 PM)
zip
*
Nothing explaing what I asked you to read.

New Covenant rightesouness is righteousness of Faith i.e believing.

21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,…

This righteousness doesn't come from law keeping. Get your theology right. the phrase "apart" from the mean it doesn't from the law or NOT through the law.

As for the phrase "Lord Lord" that is refering to different dispensation, it's refering to the time after rapture where the dispensation of Grace is no more.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 10:00 PM
prophetjul
post Oct 11 2019, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Oct 11 2019, 10:02 AM)
Well, all the apostles are jews so it is obvious that gonna be in hebrew
*
yeah. So was the Lord Jesus. biggrin.gif
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 11 2019, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 03:56 PM)
Read this in verse 6

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love. <---Meaning those who belong to Christ Jesus then read this

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
*
HEBREWS.6:1-8 (NKJV) = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
_______ _______

Since the Protestant Reformation in the mid-1500s, justification for salvation from hell by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the keeping of the Law, is well-known among Christians, especially the Protestants. It is a basic elementary doctrine and Christians should not be obsessed about this elementary doctrine but instead gradually progress to perfection = finish the race, endure until the end and always keep the faith.
....... This is true especially for new Gentile Christians who had formerly led lawless or wild lives from childhood as Gentiles = they need to gradually learn to keep the non-burdensome or essential parts of God's laws in the Old Testament so that the Holy Spirit of God can implant such laws in their hearts and minds and empower them to walk in the Spirit/Word/Law. This is to enable them to do well on earth and progress to perfection. Otherwise, they will likely go and commit ignorant sins wilfully = end up worse than before, eg calamity/cancer-stricken, and may eventually lose faith and salvation. IOW, grow and graduate from elementary school to secondaty school and finally to college/university.
....... Eg, there are ignorant Christians who go and foolishly break God's non-burdensome law at DEUT.18:9-14 by consulting horoscope, blood-type personality forecasts, tarot-cards, psychics, fortune-tellers, palm-readers, dream-catchers, ouija-boards, etc = consulting the false prophets/agents/mediums of Satan = will be afflicted with hearing and/or speech disorders - MARK.7:32.
_______
.
God speaking His Word to Adam, Abraham and Moses is the same as Jesus Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) speaking His Word to Peter, John and Paul. Hence, believing in His Son, Jesus Christ, in the New Covenant is the same as believing in His Word/Law in the Old Covenant. Vice versa, not believing in His Word/Law in the Old Testament = not believing in His Son, Jesus Christ, who is also the Word, in the NT. If an ignorant Christian continues in his/her unbelief of His Word/Law in the OT and dies, he/she will be equated as not believing in Jesus Christ and will not be saved from hell. That is why NT Scriptures often warn Christians against loss of salvation through lawlessness or willful sins.

The only difference between believing in His Son and in His Word/Law is the resultant blessings from God, ie believing in His Son, Jesus Christ, in the NT = will be saved from hell when one dies or is raptured = inherits eternal life in the kingdom of God in heaven; ...and believing in His Word/Law in the OT and keeping the Law = will be saved from calamities and terrors on earth = gain a good and long life on earth.

.
JOHN.1:18 & 5:37, EXODUS.33:20 said that no one has seen the actual form or face of God. That's because God abides in heaven and not on earth. His throne is in heaven, not on earth - EZEK.1 and REV.4.
....... To save Man from hell, the God of heaven had set up His plan and endeavoured to come down to earth from heaven, appearing to Man on earth in lesser forms = as His Holy Spirit in invisible form and/or as His Son, Jesus Christ, in visible form. How did God do that.? The Holy Trinity is beyond human comprehension.

A good analogy of the Holy Trinity is the sun in outer space, her visible light(= UV rays) and her invisible warmth(= infra-red rays) on earth. How does the sun do that.? This solar trinity is also beyond human comprehension.

Good day.

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 12 2019, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 10:08 PM)
Snip
*
Not relevant.

We were talking about Jews and Gentiles and all of sudden jump off topic.

I think Ive made myself clear, nobody is talking or insinuatin of breaking God's law.


SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 12 2019, 01:09 PM

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About MATTHEW.5:21-48, at that time, the Jews and Pharisees were thinking that they were going to heaven(= saved from hell) by being perfect keepers of the Law, ie did not commit murder, insulting, adultery, vain swearing, stealing, cheating/lying, etc. They were only half-right. ...

... Before the Advent of Jesus Christ from heaven to earth in 30-33AD, only Jews who have perfectly kept Moses Law qualified to go to heaven when they die, as per LUKE.16:19-31, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, MATTHEW.17:3, eg beggar Lazarus, Moses and Elijah. The rich young Jew of LUKE.16 died early and ended up in Hades/hell for willfully/intentionally breaking the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie he refused to provide charity to the poor(eg Lazarus) every Sabbath or 7th year.
....... After the 1st Advent and death of Jesus Christ on the Cross in 33AD, perfect-keepers of the Law no longer qualified to be saved from hell when they die because the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ had already arrived on earth. Only those Jews who had perfectly kept the Law and then believed in Jesus Christ would be saved from hell = inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God in heaven - JOHN.3:14-18, MATTHEW.4:17. Later, this gospel of salvation through faith was extended to the Gentiles through apostle Paul because most of the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah/Christ/Saviour.

IOW, before the 1st Advent of Jesus Christ to earth, only faithful and law-keeping Jews who had died and went to hades/prison had the opportunity to hear the preaching from Jesus Christ in hades/prison and be saved from hell. After the 1st Advent in 33AD, faithful and law-abiding Jews who died and went to hades/prison no longer had the same opportunity to be saved = to be saved from hell, they should go hear the gospel of Christ and believe while still alive on earth = Messianic Jews.

God's ideal believer is a Jewish Christian like the apostles, eg as per MATTHEW.19:16-23, a rich young Jew who kept Moses Law from childhood and then followed/believed in Jesus the Christ/Messiah = a perfect well-being and saved believer.
....... For most Gentile Christians, it's the other way round, ie follow/believe in Jesus Christ and then learn to keep only the non-burdensome/essential parts of Moses Law, as per ACTS.15:19-29 and ROMANS.14:1-4, because most GC had previously led lawless/wild lives from childhood.

Today, US and other Jews still falsely believe that they are going to heaven(=saved from hell) by just believing in God and keeping Moses Law = no need Jesus Christ. Similarly for the Muslims, ie they falsely believe that they are going to heaven by just believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad/Sharia Law.

At MATTHEW.5:21-48, the Lord/God Jesus Christ was trying to correct the Jews' and Pharisees' misconception that they would continue to be saved from hell by just keeping the Law = the Old Covenant of Law was going to be replaced by a New Covenant of Faith. He did not issue any new commandments to replace the old, eg "and love your enemy" did not replace "and hate your enemy", ie "love your neighbor and hate your enemy" still applies to Christians today - ROMANS.12:19-21 & 9:13.
....... Bear in mind that the New Covenant of Faith did not destroy the Old Testament Law, ie anyone who breaks the Old Testament Law will still be cursed by God with calamities(= a sad and short life on earth) and anyone who keeps the Old Law/commandments will still be blessed by God with goodness and health(= a good and long life on earth), whether Jews, Gentiles, Christians or non-Christians - ROMANS.2, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-17, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.
....... IOW, even though Christians are not saved from hell (= the afterlife) by the Law but by faith in Jesus Christ, they should still keep the Law in order to be saved from curses/calamities/terrors on earth, especially for Gentile Christians.

Unfortunately, there are misguided Christians who falsely believe that their New Hyper-Grace doctrine gave them the license-to-sin without any repercussions from God, as if they got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card by just believing in Jesus Christ, eg Martin Luther and his followers. In truth, such ignorant willful sinning Christians will often end up with curses/calamities(eg cancer) from God and gravely risk losing their faith and salvation while suffering for their sins/lawlessness - HEBREWS.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1COR.5:5 & 6:9-11 & 11:30, 1TIMOTHY.4:1, 2THESS.2:1-12, 1JOHN.3:1-10, MATTHEW.7:15-23.
_______ _______

Why did most of the Jews reject Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah/Christ, who had been promised to them in the Old Testament's books of latter prophets as their Saviour/Deliverer.? = because they wanted a Messiah/Christ who would deliver/save them from foreign Roman rule and gift them back their nation of Israel and Judah(JOHN.6:15), like what Commander Joshua and King David did for the Jews. So, the Jews treated Jesus Christ as a heretical false Christ/Messiah and proceeded to get rid of Him by causing Him to be crucified through the false accusation that Jesus was a rebel leader against the Romans, the 'King of the Jews'. The Jews also persecuted/martyred His followers/apostles in similar ways.

The Jews then took matter into their own hands and appointed their own christs/messiahs(MATTHEW.24:24, 1JOHN.2:18 & 4:3) to lead them into armed rebellion against the Roman rulers = the First Jewish-Roman Wars. This culminated with a Great Roman Army from Italy massacring the Jews and destroying their Holy Temple of Jerusalem in 70AD, as had been prophesied by Jesus Christ at LUKE.21:20 and MATTHEW.24:3 & 15.

Fyi, James, the leader of the Judaizers in Jerusalem, did not heed Jesus Christ's warning to flee Judea and the coming destruction of Jerusalem. So, he died in Jerusalem when the Roman Army laid seige on Jerusalem, ie a few years before 70AD. Hence, I put little weight in the book of James. I think JAMES should be used to teach what a Christian should not be like, like the story of King Saul, ... unlike the correct teaching of the books by Paul, John and Peter.


SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 12 2019, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE
.QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2019, 03:56 PM)
Read this in verse 6

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love. <---Meaning those who belong to Christ Jesus then read this

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 12 2019, 12:55 PM)
Not relevant.

We were talking about Jews and Gentiles and all of sudden jump off topic.

I think Ive made myself clear, nobody is talking or insinuatin of breaking God's law.
*
MATTHEW.13: (NKJV) = The Parable of the Sower

13:1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Parable of the Sower Explained

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

The Parable of the Tares Explained

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
_______ _______

Like I said before, a teacher of Christ should not just be obsessed or only teach about the word of the kingdom, which is the basic elementary Christian doctrine of justification by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the keeping of the Law because the word of salvation into the kingdom can be lost as per the above scriptures at MATTHEW.13.

A teacher of Christ should further teach and warn spiritual babes-in-Christ about the following spiritual dangers;
(1) if there come tribulation and persecution(or martyrdom) because of the word, what they should do,
(2) not to be overcome by the cares/fears/worries(eg trust insurance more than God) and greed(eg trust lotteries/gambling more than God) of this world,
(3) and beware of Satan's false prophets/pastors/teachers (= the tares) in the Church who are out to ravish the flock(= of their money, sex, time, etc) and mislead ordinary Christians into committing sins/lawlessness. Their falsehood can be judged by their works of lawlessness or fruits of the flesh(= MATTHEW.7:15-23, GAL.5:19-21). .......


MATTHEW.22:12-17 = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 12 2019, 07:01 PM

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Correction to my post above - it should be REVELATION.22:12-17, and not MATTHEW.22:12-17.

.
As per LUKE.23:43, 1COR.6:9-11, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, all repentant sinners/law-breakers can be saved from hell by faith in Jesus Christ, eg even a murderer and blasphemer like Saul of Tarsus(= later apostle Paul) or a murderer and adulterer like King David.
....... But once saved, he should not go and willfully/intentionally murder and blaspheme or adultery'ate some more and expects to be still saved by his/her faith in Jesus Christ because he/she has crucified Jesus Christ a 2nd time and put Him to an open shame, trampled the Son of God underfoot and insulted the Spirit of grace. In this case, the basic elementary Christian doctrine of "justification by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the keeping of the Law" won't save him a 2nd time for the same or repeated sin/law-breaking from the hands of the vengeful and just God.
....... It's the big difference between "before and after" enlightenment or receiving the knowledge of truth in Christ.

So, "Once Saved Always Saved" (OSAS) or "Has Been Predestined by God To Be The Elect" is a false doctrine. Otherwise Paul would not have written what he wrote to Christians and warned them about willful or intentional sins/law-breaking, eg repeating the same sins. He also stated that such willful sinning Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God - GAL.5:19-21. The Lord Jesus Christ said the same at REV.22:12-17 & 21:8 & 14:12.

Also, even though the repentant sinner/law-breaker has been saved from hell by faith in Jesus Christ, normally he still has to suffer the consequences of his sin/law-breaking, eg the saved Jewish robber of LUKE.23:43 had to die young, King David's sons had to die and saved Paul was buffeted with a thorn in the flesh from a messenger of Satan. Some exceptions to these consequences happened during the ministry of Jesu Christ = healings, exorcisms, miracles, etc.


1TIMOTHY.1:18-20 = Fight the Good Fight

18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 12 2019, 08:36 PM

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lurkingaround, you're telling us, something we already know.

Don't understand what you're trying to prove.

There are Christians who supports OSAS, as well as against OSAS, you're not the 1st.

What I'm trying to say is, your argument is nothing new.

I certainly do hope you don't think christians in here do not know anything, only you do. That would rather rudely arrogant.


p.s: though not important:

You're still not addressing what I've contested against you, there are no seperate Rules or commandments of God between jews and christians who accepts Christ.
When you say jews have to adhere to different sets of rule from the christians, you have a weird theology there, not unless you're refering judaism jew which of course only adhere to the Old Testament Mosaic law.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 12 2019, 09:12 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 12 2019, 09:28 PM

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For the record, I just want to exlain for my outburst agaist Yeeck.

1st of all this is a protestant Christian Fellowship thread not Catholic. You don't come in here argung with catholicism as your backbone view though you may think you're arguing something that is within protestant. I do know how you think. <--hinting to Yeeck.

Anyway.....When you go to a church, in real life, you don't see people arguing head to head on difference of theology, people are friendly in church, I envision here supposedly to be the same.

But being a forum platform...there are many denominations hence differences of theology.

There ARE different school of thoughts and we cannot say for example..Baptist theology are correct while the Lutheran are not or that Methodist are the only correct while reformed protestant are wrong.

Same thing, there are Christians who believe in pre-destination as well against..i.e OSAS and Anti-OSAS.

I just want to say something why I'm putting my foot down. I'll give you an example.

Prophetjul for sure do not agree to my theology but his post stays and he is welcome, why? Because he doesn't mud sling and condemn people with phrases like you are a son of perdition, you're doom to hell..something along that line.
Want to argue, don''t attack people or threatened people with hell condemnation. First of all you were never qualified to throw something like that, only God Almighty alone has that right.

Also don't put your word into people's mouth. If a forum member has made it clear he never suggest for example...to encourage people to sin, then don't keep on mud slinging on that person giving a wrong impression that he does.
And goes posting scripture verses agitating the person even further. Doing so, only mean that you don't respect what he says and continuation of insisting that he does equates to maligning or slandering the person. That is something I will put my foot down and will never accept in here.

Even desmond's post, l leave it eventhough he and I don't see eye to eye..why? because he has not attack anyone..just posting. That is alright.

I do not want anymore rhetoric like only my denomination theology is correct while yours is wrong, therefore I will fight you until the end. This is an immaturity on your part, need to grow up and chill.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 12 2019, 09:33 PM
Yggdrasil
post Oct 13 2019, 12:03 AM

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My goodness. Is this thread about Christians arguing with each other about who is right and wrong?

With the time spent, the Christians in this thread should be helping others or doing God's work.

Btw, no one should exegete without any experience especially historical context.
Yggdrasil
post Oct 13 2019, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 9 2019, 06:28 PM)
ahhh, yes, book of Leviticus.

£You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.£ - Leviticus 19:28

So that means no tattoos. Tattoos are socially acceptable if you are not a Christian.
*
EVERYTHING MUST BE READ WITH HISTORICAL CONTEXT!

Most of Leviticus is about being free from Pagan influence.
Cutting oneself is part of a Pagan ritual when people mourn for the dead.
So, when was written, it was for that period of time only.

It’s certainly clear that the biblical writers condemned the practice of tattooing. Leviticus 19:28 prohibits cutting or marking the body; however, no reason is given in this verse, which probably means it was obvious to the ancient reader (but not to us).

The larger context of the passage is concerned with pagan mourning practices and idolatry; thus tattooing has been traditionally deemed “guilty by association” with other pagan rites. This is how it has been interpreted by both Jews and Christians over the centuries. Interestingly, a parallel passage in Leviticus 21:5 mentions mourning prohibitions but without any reference to tattooing.

It must be remembered that the Bible is the product of an alien and dead civilization, the ancient Near East. Two years ago, John Huehnergard and Harold Liebowitz challenged the traditional reasons for the biblical prohibition of tattooing in the Dutch journal, Vetus Testamentum. They recognized that mourning practices in mythological texts from Ugarit (a Late Bronze Age Canaanite town on the coast of Syria contemporary to Israel) involved the cutting of the body. However, tattooing is never mentioned in these texts. That same holds true of mourning practices in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Oddly, there is a possible positive reference to tattooing in the Bible. In a poetic line from Isaiah 44:5, an Israelite commits himself to God by inscribing God’s name on his arm. Thus, the Israelite in Isaiah was willingly proposing to become a servant of God.

This is reminiscent of the common Mesopotamian and Israelite practice of marking or branding slaves with the name of the owner, often involving the forehead or hand, perhaps so the slave could be returned to the owner if they had fled. If this is correct, then tattooing was considered by the ancients as a mark of ownership; the person inscribed was in servitude, and thus belonged to a master.

Many of the laws in Leviticus were made to disassociate the Israelites from their neighbors, the Canaanites, and from the Egyptians, their former masters. Tattooing, an insignia of ownership, was perhaps condemned in Leviticus because it reminded them of their past. After all, they had just spent the past four centuries as slaves in Egypt, where tattooing was also used as a sign of slavery.

No longer considered slaves, the Israelites were now prohibited to mark their bodies with permanent signs of servitude to former masters. This did not have to be explicitly articulated to them; no one needs to ask a prison inmate why they shed their orange jump suits when they are no longer incarcerated. Later, Jewish tradition viewed humans as bearing the image of God; thus they concluded that tattooing was a permanent marring of the divine image.
-Mark W. Chavalas: Why does the Bible prohibit tattooing?

For reference:

Isaiah 44:5 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

5 This one will say, “I am the Lord’s,”
another will be called by the name of Jacob,
yet another will write on the hand, “The Lord’s,”
and adopt the name of Israel.


Yggdrasil
post Oct 13 2019, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ Oct 9 2019, 05:17 PM)
guys, is there any book that interprets or explain bible in more details?
*
Get this: The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha: New Revised Standard Version 5th Edition

It is a study bible highly recommended by seminarians/academic students in the US.
The authors are from various religious backgrounds, Jews, Catholic and Protestants. Hence, the chance of the book being bias is low.
It also contains the Apocrypha if you are interested to read.

Note: This is not a devotional bible but rather interprets the Bible in a historical/neutral way. This is likely the Bible that your pastor used in seminary (or at least something similar).

Sample from Romans:

user posted image

This post has been edited by Yggdrasil: Oct 13 2019, 12:40 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 13 2019, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 12 2019, 08:36 PM)
p.s: though not important:

You're still not addressing what I've contested against you, there are no seperate Rules or commandments of God between jews and christians who accepts Christ.
When you say jews have to adhere to different sets of rule from the christians, you have a weird theology there, not unless you're refering judaism jew which of course only adhere to the Old Testament Mosaic law.
*
ACTS.15:19-29 (NKJV) = . 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[g] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.
.

ACTS.21:17-25 = 17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”.
.

ROMANS.14:1-13 = The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
_______ _______

Both Jews and Gentiles can be saved from hell by the same faith in Jesus Christ. But the Lord Jesus Christ considered Gentiles as unclean dogs and did not preach His gospel of salvation to them. He only preached to His fellow clean or law-keeping Jews. He commanded His apostles to not preach to the unclean Gentiles.
....... Only after most of His fellow Jews had rejected Him as their Messiah/Christ and killed Him, did Jesus Christ extend His gospel of salvation to the unclean Gentiles via apostle Peter and Paul.

So, for the unclean or mostly lawless Gentiles who believed(= Gentile Christians) via apostle Paul, God required them to begin their spiritual born-again baby lives by keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws of Moses so as to do well on earth. Thereafter, they should gradually grow by learning to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God. God liberated them from the burdensome parts of His Law, eg circumcision and kosher/clean foods.

.
.
.
QUOTE(unknown warrior)
lurkingaround, you're telling us, something we already know.

Don't understand what you're trying to prove.

There are Christians who supports OSAS, as well as against OSAS, you're not the 1st.

What I'm trying to say is, your argument is nothing new.

I certainly do hope you don't think christians in here do not know anything, only you do. That would rather rudely arrogant.

God and His Word should be the One to decide the veracity of any Christian doctrine, eg OSAS, Calvinist Predestination, Hyper-Grace, Prosperity Gospel, etc, ie the truth is not decided by the subjective words, views, arguments or interpretations of denominational Christians. It is up to them whether they believe the Word of God or believe what is right in their own eyes. .......

HEB.4:11-13 = The Word Discovers Our Condition

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
.

2TIM.3:14-17 =. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.

EPH.6:16-17 = 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 13 2019, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(Yggdrasil)
For reference:

Isaiah 44:5 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

5 This one will say, “I am the Lord’s,”
another will be called by the name of Jacob,
yet another will write on the hand, “The Lord’s,”
and adopt the name of Israel.

"write on the hand" did not necessarily equate to tattooing. It could likely be writing on the hand with a long-lasting dye like henna dye or election ink to vote.

When you tattoo someone's skin, you are not actually writing on the skin like writing on a piece of paper or papyrus or cured animal skin. The tattooing process requires the skin to be poked or penetrated by a sharp instrument, in order to allow the ink to be permanently placed inside the skin, replacing the natural-born melanin of the skin.

Tattooing can result in deadly infections. This is exposure to unnecessary risks, even for Christians who may doubt the laws/Word of God in the Old Testament about tattoos being unlawful.........


https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/02/health/t...tudy/index.html - Man dies after swimming with new tattoo - 2017

https://thestir.cafemom.com/healthy_living/...oman_dies_after - Healthy 23-Year-Old Woman Dies After Getting a Tattoo - 2013

https://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2...-getting-inked/

https://biblereasons.com/biblical-reasons-no-tattoos/ - 10 Biblical Reasons Not To Get A Tattoo - 2017
yeeck
post Oct 13 2019, 04:40 PM

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Oct 14 2019, 08:33 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: Using the phrase "my own definition" maligning forum member

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2019, 08:15 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 13 2019, 11:05 AM)
ACTS.15:19-29 (NKJV) = . 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[g] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.
.

ACTS.21:17-25 = 17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”.
.

ROMANS.14:1-13 = The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
_______ _______

Both Jews and Gentiles can be saved from hell by the same faith in Jesus Christ. But the Lord Jesus Christ considered Gentiles as unclean dogs and did not preach His gospel of salvation to them. He only preached to His fellow clean or law-keeping Jews. He commanded His apostles to not preach to the unclean Gentiles.
....... Only after most of His fellow Jews had rejected Him as their Messiah/Christ and killed Him, did Jesus Christ extend His gospel of salvation to the unclean Gentiles via apostle Peter and Paul.

So, for the unclean or mostly lawless Gentiles who believed(= Gentile Christians) via apostle Paul, God required them to begin their spiritual born-again baby lives by keeping 4 simple non-burdensome laws of Moses so as to do well on earth. Thereafter, they should gradually grow by learning to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God. God liberated them from the burdensome parts of His Law, eg circumcision and kosher/clean foods.

*
Err...in case you didn't know, I don't think any Christians would bow to any idols, sanction sexual promiscuity or drink blood, etc etc. lol.

Also read this verse 24....I wonder you actually bother to read what you copy and paste?


24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment


There you go, saying jewish believers have to adhere to the 613 laws...debunked.


QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 13 2019, 11:05 AM)
.
QUOTE(unknown warrior)
lurkingaround, you're telling us, something we already know.

Don't understand what you're trying to prove.

There are Christians who supports OSAS, as well as against OSAS, you're not the 1st.

What I'm trying to say is, your argument is nothing new.

I certainly do hope you don't think christians in here do not know anything, only you do. That would rather rudely arrogant.



God and His Word should be the One to decide the veracity of any Christian doctrine, eg OSAS, Calvinist Predestination, Hyper-Grace, Prosperity Gospel, etc, ie the truth is not decided by the subjective words, views, arguments or interpretations of denominational Christians. It is up to them whether they believe the Word of God or believe what is right in their own eyes. .......

HEB.4:11-13 = The Word Discovers Our Condition

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
.

2TIM.3:14-17 =. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.

EPH.6:16-17 = 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
*
Erm...yes God is the one who decide, NOT YOU, you're trying to play the role on behalf of God. And you're essentially trying to say, only your denomination interpretation is right, while others are wrong. So NOPE. This is not allowed as there are various denomination in here. If you say that the truth of the word of God is not subjected to denomination, i would say your understanding of the bible came from your circle of whoever you listened to.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 14 2019, 09:25 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2019, 08:24 AM

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Nvm

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 14 2019, 08:32 AM
aliesterfiend
post Oct 14 2019, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 12 2019, 01:09 PM)
Today, US and other Jews still falsely believe that they are going to heaven(=saved from hell) by just believing in God and keeping Moses Law = no need Jesus Christ. Similarly for the Muslims, ie they falsely believe that they are going to heaven by just believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad/Sharia Law.
Wrong. Muslims and I believe the same apllies to Judaism does not rely on faith alone, but also works. Just believing in God alone does not have you from hell. Dont know where you copy pasted but sharia law sounded wrong grammatically because syaria literally means law in English. Oh, and Muslims do believe in Jesus, as all other prophets of God.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 17 2019, 08:37 AM

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Good Morning fellow Christians bro and sis in Christ, now that those disturbance have died down, let us continue our fellowship.

Now that I think about it, I just created this new version thread, immediately got disturbance, sometime I wonder why I ask God. It's an indication of warfare. The devil knows there are many things God has in store for us that will bless our life.

I want to do a public testimony thanking God for answering my very recent prayer. I had a problem with one of my house hold equipment, I've engaged 2 people to repair it within the time span of about 9 months...it was okay for awhile but within a month the problem came back. This happened about 3-4 times in that span.

My family had to bear and suffer the problem of this equipment affecting our daily lives. Until I got down on my knee and prayed for deliverance.

Thanks be to God Almighty, the problem suddenly just solved by itself. Unexplainable. Even the guy whom I engaged to fix was at his ends wit, don't know what else to do. BUT GOD knew what to do.

I'm comforted to know God has said

...“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” (Deuteronomy 31:6)

I'll just leave this verse with you


John 6:37 (NIV) - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

This God's Name is Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God borne of the virgin birth. There are no other Gods for me and my household, we will serve the Lord. This God Jesus Christ answers prayers! We have an answer praying God, a living God, not figment of imagination or corrupted bible God as claimed by others.

This God is true to his words. Time and time again God has been with his people. This also comforted me to know sometime the words of Man are not important, people can say whatever they want but I'm not shaken by man's word for I know the God in whom I have believed in and live with.

God Bless dear friends, I hope this will encourage you to continue in your walk with Jesus Christ!

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 17 2019, 08:38 AM
Roman Catholic
post Oct 18 2019, 04:23 PM

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Praise the Lord !
prophetjul
post Oct 19 2019, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Sep 30 2019, 08:42 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Jesus told him, “Go and [SIZE=14]do[SIZE=14] likewise.”
If you do not know, Jews and Samaritans have no dealings with one another because they are traditionally enemies.
Jesus purposely used a Samaritan as the good guy compared to the Priest and the Levite who left the injured Jew by the roadside. The Priests were like the pastors of the day and the Levites like the church workers.

What do you think Jesus was trying to convey?
*
Interesting.

Therefore

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


pehkay
post Oct 19 2019, 03:58 PM

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IMO, I think we are too set with the parable as if the Lord Jesus wants us to love our neighbor as ourself. That reading is too natural with our common ethical thoughts. XD

alexkos
post Oct 19 2019, 04:26 PM

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John 6:37 (NIV) - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

Does it mean that God interferes with our free will? Since it says 'will come to me'. Why is God so sure about that if salvation is in the hands of sinners who choose to accept or reject the grace?
pehkay
post Oct 19 2019, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 19 2019, 04:26 PM)
John 6:37 (NIV) - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

Does it mean that God interferes with our free will? Since it says 'will come to me'. Why is God so sure about that if salvation is in the hands of sinners who choose to accept or reject the grace?
*
We just have to accept the twofold was of the truth and its mysteries. There is no way to systematize the truth.

You have verses like these on God’s sovereignty:


“Lydia…whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul” (Acts 16:14).

“As many as were ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).

“God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth” (2 Thess. 2:13).

“He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love” (Eph. 1:4).



And man’s responsibility and free will:

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed” (Acts 17:11, 12).

“Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ…Save yourselves from this untoward generation” (Acts 2:38, 40).

“Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish” (Acts 13:40, 41).

But the best is this:

Acts 2:23: This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you [we are responsible], with the help of wicked men,[a] put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Scripture affirms that God foreknows human actions as aspects of his plan; while these actions are certain as to their future occurrence, human beings are nonetheless ethically responsible for their personal actions.

We just have to be simple and amen His word.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2019, 07:28 PM
alexkos
post Oct 19 2019, 07:45 PM

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Ic... If want simple, then justification by faith or by work? Paul's word appears to be serious in Gal 1, calling the 'another gospel' damnation. Paul's treatise on the Gospel in Romans is clearly siding by faith alone. James however, by work.

Can we be simple and amen to both views on soteriology?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 19 2019, 07:46 PM
pehkay
post Oct 19 2019, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 19 2019, 07:45 PM)
Ic... If want simple, then justification by faith or by work? Paul's word appears to be serious in Gal 1, calling the 'another gospel' damnation. Paul's treatise on the Gospel in Romans is clearly siding by faith alone. James however, by work.

Can we be simple and amen to both views on soteriology?
*
Yes we can biggrin.gif. We can answer this in 2 ways:

First way

First, salvation is not merely regeneration. It encompasses our entire Christian life from regeneration to glorification.

According to the Scriptures, there are three aspects of justification. We can cover 2 for this post. The first aspect is before God, which we obtained when we believe. In other words, once we are saved, we are justified, or we may say that once we are justified, we are saved, since God’s salvation includes justification. A justified person is a saved person (Rom 3:24, Gal. 2:16; Rom. 3:20 etc).

Second aspect of justification, the Bible shows that the second aspect of justification is before men - after salvation. We obtain this gradually after we are saved.

1. “A man is justified by works” (James 2:24).

When we were saved, the justification we obtained before God was by faith and had nothing to do with works. But after we are saved, our justification before men is by works, not by faith. Faith caused us to be justified by God at the time of our salvation; works cause us to be justified by men after our salvation.

2. “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works” (Matt. 5:16).
3. “We exercise foresight for what is honorable not only in the sight of the Lord but also in the sight of men” (2 Cor. 8:21).
We should exercise foresight for what is honorable in the sight of men in order to match our justified status. Otherwise, even though we may be justified before God, we will not appear to be justified before men.

4. “He who serves Christ in this is well pleasing to God and approved by men” (Rom. 14:18).

Second way

Not so recent Finnish scholarship on Luther's writing -> Christ is present in faith.

Justification by faith is not merely forensic but involving a union of the divine life. It is not something that we are convinced of in our mind; it is something that we receive when we are joined to the Lord as one spirit (1 Cor. 6:17). When the living Christ indwells us, His faith becomes our faith. We believe because He is faithful, and He cannot deny Himself in us (2 Tim. 2:13). In our organic union with Him, His faith becomes our faith, and our faith is His faith.

The Christ who is preached to us is infused into us through the word of the gospel. Rather it is the apprehended reality of what is preached; Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ, and this word is not simply about Christ but that which bears Christ into us. The ability to believe that is infused into us (work) is actually Christ as our faith.

This faith is the faith of Jesus Christ in us, which has become the faith by which we believe in Him, as in Rom 3:22, 26; Gal. 2:16, 20; 3:22; Eph. 3:12; and Phil. 3:9. This can only be understood in the union of Christ as faith. It is He who justifies but the abitily to believe out of free will is an operation of his Person as faith infused into us. And tis is faith is in us that God justifies us.

It is a mystery. The twofoldness can only be experienced in the mysterious union with Christ in the Spirit.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2019, 10:17 PM
alexkos
post Oct 19 2019, 10:50 PM

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this pehkay not bad, long time no meet soundly expounded christian. let's cont to substantially level up the theology in this thread.

what's the biblical basis for woman as pastor-teacher? I'm referring to 1 Tim 2, 3, Titus 1 as basis. Can woman justify 1 Tim 2 injunction away with Gal 3 and Deborah as judge?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 19 2019, 10:52 PM
pehkay
post Oct 20 2019, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 19 2019, 10:50 PM)
this pehkay not bad, long time no meet soundly expounded christian. let's cont to substantially level up the theology in this thread.

what's the biblical basis for woman as pastor-teacher? I'm referring to 1 Tim 2, 3, Titus 1 as basis. Can woman justify 1 Tim 2 injunction away with Gal 3 and Deborah as judge?
*
Ah haha this is a prickly subject. Personally, I don't have burden to discuss secondary truths in that (sadly) stirs up believers to fight over secondary things ... which is pretty not profitable. So I will keep it short (not sure if I can) and direct us all to the central things.

Firstly, (I am a minority) the clergy-laity system is a degraded system that we inherited ever since. God's original intention was for all His people to be His priests. God had no intention of separating His people from His priests. He wanted the whole nation to be a kingdom of priests. God's people and God's priests should have been one. This is clearly seen in Numbers 11:29 where Moses exclaimed, "Oh that all Jehovah's people were prophets, that Jehovah would put His Spirit upon them!". This prophecy was promoted by Paul in 1 Corinthians and will be fulfilled in God's New Testament economy.

But because of Israel's failure, the functions went to the tribe of Levi only but this is not what God desires. But with the coming of the New Testament age, we find salvation and redemption reaching all men. Now we hear the word: "You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 2:5).

In 1 Peter 2:4-7, we have become the living stones and are joined and built up to become a spiritual house. We also have become a holy priesthood to God. It is as if a voice from heaven burst forth announcing, "All who are saved are now God's priests. All the living stones, those who are part of the spiritual house, are now priests of God."

Right then a promise which had been set aside for fifteen hundred years was recovered by God. What the Israelites lost has been recovered by the church. The universal priesthood was lost to Israel. In the New Testament age, it is as if a voice from heaven bursts forth with the promise that the universal priesthood is with us once more. All the saved ones are called to be priests. We can all pray, sing, preach, shepherd, teach .... we all have a functions as members in the Body.

This at least covers on the matter of pastor thingy.


pehkay
post Oct 20 2019, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 19 2019, 10:50 PM)
this pehkay not bad, long time no meet soundly expounded christian. let's cont to substantially level up the theology in this thread.

what's the biblical basis for woman as pastor-teacher? I'm referring to 1 Tim 2, 3, Titus 1 as basis. Can woman justify 1 Tim 2 injunction away with Gal 3 and Deborah as judge?
*
Regarding sisters ...

In the church meetings the sisters should be silent in giving teachings. First Corinthians 14:33b-35 says, "As in all the churches of the saints, let the women be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but let them be subject, as the law also says. But if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church." The phrase "in the churches" means in the meetings of the church. According to 11:5, women can prophesy (of course, in public) with their head covered, and Acts 2:17 and 18 and 21:9 confirm that there were women prophesying (speaking for God and forth God). But in 1 Timothy 2:12 women are not permitted to teach, that is, to teach as an authority (there teaching is related to the exercising of authority), defining doctrine. Hence, according to the New Testament principle, for women not to be permitted to speak in the church meetings means that women are not permitted to teach with authority concerning the defining of doctrine. In this sense they should be kept silent in the church meetings. They are not permitted to speak because they should be subject to man.

I would like to consider this subject from a much broader perspective (perhaps not addressing this matter directly). There are two systems of God in the universe.

A. The System of Grace

The church, our salvation, the brother-sister relationship in the Lord, and our being God's children—these are all items within the system of God's grace. Everything related to the church, the Holy Spirit, and redemption belongs to the system of grace. The centurion and the Syrophoenician woman both received grace from God. Peter received grace, and so did Mary. Lazarus could be resurrected, and Martha and Mary could serve. In the system of grace, man and woman are placed on equal footing. We are all sons of God in the divine life. We are all females as the Bride of Christ.

B. The System of Government

There is another system in the Bible which we call God's government. This system of government is altogether different from the system of grace. The system of God's government is separate from the system of grace; it is another system altogether. In this system, God operates according to His own pleasure. This is regards to creation of man first, woman second. The order is according to His government. Man's food before the flood is fruits and after the flood, meat. This is government as well. More can be said for many other things.

We see both aspects of God's work being present at the same time. The system of God's grace continued to operate in the world. At the same time, the system of His government also operated. The priests and the prophets belonged to the side of grace; they maintained the system of grace. The kings and the leaders of the Israelites belonged to the side of God's government; they maintained the system of God's government.

On the one hand, when the Lord Jesus was on earth, He was the Savior to deliver men from sin. This was His work under the system of grace. On the other hand, God's desire is for the Lord Jesus to establish His authority and heavenly kingdom through the work of the cross, with the result that heaven's reign will be brought to the earth.

The significance of head covering is that one puts himself under God's government; he acknowledges this position. He would never annul God's government just because he has received His grace. He would not even allow such a thought to come into him. He would, on the contrary, acknowledge God's government. Just as Christ accepted God as His Head, so also every man should accept Christ as his Head. In like manner, the woman should accept the man as her representative head. Head covering means that one covers his head as if he had no head.

(More can be said)
--------

Regarding Deborah, the people of Israel had never had a female leader. Then, suddenly, God raised up a female judge. Whenever God does something which stands out as being extraordinary, it is very significant. It indicates, first, man’s failure, and then, God’s excellent act. At the time of Judges 4, all the men of Israel had failed, so God raised up a woman. That raising up of a female changed the entire condition of Israel.

In God's governement, a proper female indicates one who is in submission to God, one who keeps God’s ordination. This is the position that Israel should have taken before God, but the situation in Israel had become fully abnormal. The men had left their position before Jehovah. Hence, Israel violated God’s ordination, leaving her position as God’s wife and forsaking Him for hundreds of idols. This brought Israel into a miserable situation and condition.

According to God’s creation, Deborah was a very capable person. By reading her song in chapter five, we can see that she was full of ability, capacity, insight, and foresight. But such an excellent person was very submissive. God made her the leader, yet she kept the proper order and took Barak as her covering (4:6-9).

QUOTE
6 And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali, and said unto him, Hath not Jehovah, the God of Israel, commanded, saying, Go and draw unto mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? 7 And I will draw unto thee, to the river Kishon, Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thy hand. 8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go; but if thou wilt not go with me, I will not go. 9 And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding, the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for Jehovah will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.


She realized that she needed a man to be her covering. Actually, Barak did nearly nothing, yet Deborah took him as her "head covering." When she took this kind of standing, the whole nation became different. In their miserable situation no one would take the lead to fight for Jehovah’s interest, and no one would be willing to follow. But when this excellent, extraordinary woman took the lead to practice the female submission to the man, the entire country came into the proper order. Everyone returned to his or her proper position.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 20 2019, 09:36 AM
alexkos
post Oct 20 2019, 11:35 AM

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not bad. ppl these days already discarded head covering as a cultural stuff, but fails to see the significance behind it, i.e., the proper order God has instituted for man and woman in the life of the church.

what do you think?

since hearing from God is of utmost priority,
and pastor-teacher is directly related to how a clergyman listens to God (through the preaching of His Word) in every congregational setting,

how then can a congregation submit to a female pastor (you categorize it as 'secondary doctrine') with the exegetical pattern to favor Gal 3 (you quoted system A) over literal 1 Tim 2, Romans, Titus 1, 1 Cor 11,14 (system B)? What actually stops her from exegete other passages not as literal, e.g., literal Genesis account, literal Christ virgin birth and resurrection, and literal Christ ascension and promised return?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Oct 20 2019, 11:36 AM
yeeck
post Oct 21 2019, 10:17 AM

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Oct 21 2019, 10:56 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: provocation, using the phrase "new group"

prophetjul
post Oct 21 2019, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Oct 19 2019, 10:15 PM)
Yes we can biggrin.gif. We can answer this in 2 ways:

First way

First, salvation is not merely regeneration. It encompasses our entire Christian life from regeneration to glorification.

According to the Scriptures, there are three aspects of justification. We can cover 2 for this post. The first aspect is before God, which we obtained when we believe. In other words, once we are saved, we are justified, or we may say that once we are justified, we are saved, since God’s salvation includes justification. A justified person is a saved person (Rom 3:24, Gal. 2:16; Rom. 3:20 etc).

Second aspect of justification, the Bible shows that the second aspect of justification is before men - after salvation. We obtain this gradually after we are saved.

1. “A man is justified by works” (James 2:24).

When we were saved, the justification we obtained before God was by faith and had nothing to do with works. But after we are saved, our justification before men is by works, not by faith. Faith caused us to be justified by God at the time of our salvation; works cause us to be justified by men after our salvation.

2. “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works” (Matt. 5:16).
3. “We exercise foresight for what is honorable not only in the sight of the Lord but also in the sight of men” (2 Cor. 8:21).
We should exercise foresight for what is honorable in the sight of men in order to match our justified status. Otherwise, even though we may be justified before God, we will not appear to be justified before men.

4. “He who serves Christ in this is well pleasing to God and approved by men” (Rom. 14:18).

Second way

Not so recent Finnish scholarship on Luther's writing -> Christ is present in faith.

Justification by faith is not merely forensic but involving a union of the divine life. It is not something that we are convinced of in our mind; it is something that we receive when we are joined to the Lord as one spirit (1 Cor. 6:17). When the living Christ indwells us, His faith becomes our faith. We believe because He is faithful, and He cannot deny Himself in us (2 Tim. 2:13). In our organic union with Him, His faith becomes our faith, and our faith is His faith.

The Christ who is preached to us is infused into us through the word of the gospel. Rather it is the apprehended reality of what is preached; Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ, and this word is not simply about Christ but that which bears Christ into us. The ability to believe that is infused into us (work) is actually Christ as our faith.

This faith is the faith of Jesus Christ in us, which has become the faith by which we believe in Him, as in Rom 3:22, 26; Gal. 2:16, 20; 3:22; Eph. 3:12; and Phil. 3:9. This can only be understood in the union of Christ as faith. It is He who justifies but the abitily to believe out of free will is an operation of his Person as faith infused into us. And tis is faith is in us that God justifies us.

It is a mystery. The twofoldness can only be experienced in the mysterious union with Christ in the Spirit.
*
Part 1 is just a great write up.
Faith demands Action/works. That is the Jewish way. Its not NATO. They walk the talk(Faith) in life.

Part 2 sounds dodgy in that it looks new age. Although Paul uses the union of Christ and the church as the great mystery, its not the infusion of Christ in us, but rather its the allusion of the union of a man and woman in marriage covenant as one or echad.
Its also the eschatological aspect of the ancient Jewish marriage procedure which is specially highlighted in Jesus and the church in the future.

Luther's Sola Fide is a pure human reaction to the heresies of the RCC, nothing scriptural.


yeeck
post Oct 21 2019, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2019, 12:18 PM)
Part 1 is just a great write up.
Faith demands Action/works. That is the Jewish way. Its not NATO. They walk the talk(Faith) in life.

Part 2 sounds dodgy in that it looks new age.  Although Paul uses the union of Christ and the church as the great mystery, its not the infusion of Christ in us, but rather its the allusion of the union of a man and woman in marriage covenant as one or echad.
Its also the eschatological aspect of the ancient Jewish marriage procedure which is specially highlighted in Jesus and the church in the future.

Luther's Sola Fide is a pure human reaction to the heresies of the RCC, nothing scriptural.
*
That would also mean you are saying Luther is a heretic, right?
prophetjul
post Oct 21 2019, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 21 2019, 02:12 PM)
That would also mean you are saying Luther is a heretic, right?
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Heretic is extreme. Spur of the moment.

I would say RCC is more heretical than Luther.
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post Oct 21 2019, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 21 2019, 02:31 PM)
Heretic is extreme. Spur of the moment.

I would say RCC is more heretical than Luther.
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LOL, whatever makes you happy, prophet.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 21 2019, 02:35 PM
prophetjul
post Oct 21 2019, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 21 2019, 02:35 PM)
LOL, whatever makes you happy, prophet.
*
Whatever is truthful.

And that is Truth. RCC's practices smacks of heretical practices forbidden by God to Israel.
Yet they teach their people such rebellious practices.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 21 2019, 02:47 PM
Roman Catholic
post Oct 21 2019, 05:28 PM

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My father-in-law suffered a 2nd stroke last Friday (couldn't walk) and by today he has recovered tremendously (started to walk again but slowly) because God always answers prayers. The doctor was surprised that nothing was done after the 1st stroke, which also showed up in today's CT Scan.

My BP Monitoring device was registering Irregular Heartbeat occasionally but my father-in-law simply refused to believe the BP monitoring device.

This time around he was willing to go to the hospital so that appropriate medication could be administered.

Praise be to God forever and ever. Amen.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Oct 21 2019, 05:30 PM
pehkay
post Oct 21 2019, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 20 2019, 11:35 AM)
not bad. ppl these days already discarded head covering as a cultural stuff, but fails to see the significance behind it, i.e., the proper order God has instituted for man and woman in the life of the church.

what do you think?

since hearing from God is of utmost priority,
and pastor-teacher is directly related to how a clergyman listens to God (through the preaching of His Word) in every congregational setting,

how then can a congregation submit to a female pastor (you categorize it as 'secondary doctrine') with the exegetical pattern to favor Gal 3 (you quoted system A) over literal 1 Tim 2, Romans, Titus 1, 1 Cor 11,14 (system B)? What actually stops her from exegete other passages not as literal, e.g., literal Genesis account, literal Christ virgin birth and resurrection, and literal Christ ascension and promised return?
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It is much more than just that .... It expresses a profound principle. Again, wearing it out of habit or culture is as bad as well. smile.gif There must be spiritual reality behind the outward practice.

For the sisters to cover their heads means that they take the position Christ takes before God and the position every man takes before Christ. God's intention is for women to cover their heads as an expression of His government on earth. He asks only the women to cover their heads. A woman does not cover her head for her own sake but for the sake of representation.

A woman covers her head for herself, because she is a woman. She also covers her head as a representative, because she represents every man, and she also represents Christ. A woman represents every man before Christ. She also represents Christ before God. The woman's covering before God is equal to Christ's covering before God. In the same way, the woman's covering before Christ is equal to every man's covering before Christ.

First Corinthians 11:6 states it is for the sake of the angels. The unique controversy in the universe is because there is one who rebelled against God's authority, thus creating a principle of rebellien - the denial of God's authority.

When we have the sign of submission on our head, that is, when we cover our head, we are rendering the best testimony to the fallen angels. Head covering puts Satan to shame. We are doing what he did not do before God. What God did not obtain among the angels, He has obtained in the church.

--------------------------------------------------

I guess one must see a revelation (spiritual unveiling), that it is never about man's need or woman's rights or sinner's salvation, etc but rather God's need (it's never about you tongue.gif). From the very beginning, God has been trying to usher in His governmental system. He will continue this work until the very end. Grace always goes along with government. Because man fought and rebelled against the system of government, the system of grace was brought in. The system of grace brings us to salvation and restoration so that we will obey God's system of government. Grace is given to supplement God's system of government. The system of grace perfects the system of government. The system of government is not for the system of grace; rather, the system of grace is here to perfect the system of government.

It is not an either or.

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of [a]the Lamb, 2 in the midst of the street thereof. The divine life flowing out (The Triune God flowing Himself into us as life for our enjoyment - grace - is from the throne (authority or government). Authority is just God Himself (issues out for His God's own being). It is meaningful that in Greek, authority... is εξουσία - ek = out of ; ousia - essense of God.

On that day (new heaven and new earth), both systems will become one.

SUSAlan K.
post Oct 23 2019, 12:24 AM

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"Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’

We serve a great God. We serve a great, great, great, great, God.

It's my privilege to follow Jesus Christ.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 23 2019, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 23 2019, 12:24 AM)
"Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’

We serve a great God. We serve a great, great, great, great, God.

It's my privilege to follow Jesus Christ.
*
.
JOHN.1:1-5 (NKJV) = The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

.
JOHN.6:63-64 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. . 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

.
HEBREWS.4:11-13 = The Word Discovers Our Condition

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

.
1PETER.1:22-25 = .The Enduring Word

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25
But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

.
MATTHEW.4:1-4 = Satan Tempts Jesus

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

_______

JOHN.3:16-21 = 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 25 2019, 09:28 AM
wkc5657
post Oct 23 2019, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Sep 26 2019, 03:45 PM)

Christian BookShop

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You can add Discovery House Publishers :
https://dhdmalaysia.com/

Although i'm no baptist, but pantai baptist church have a history of good teachings. Can access their recordings here :
https://pbc.my/sermons-2/

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 23 2019, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 21 2019, 05:28 PM)
My father-in-law suffered a 2nd stroke last Friday (couldn't walk) and by today he has recovered tremendously (started to walk again but slowly) because God always answers prayers. The doctor was surprised that nothing was done after the 1st stroke, which also showed up in today's CT Scan.

My BP Monitoring device was registering Irregular Heartbeat occasionally but my father-in-law simply refused to believe the BP monitoring device.

This time around he was willing to go to the hospital so that appropriate medication could be administered.

Praise be to God forever and ever. Amen.
*
thumbup.gif

Keep believing bro.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 23 2019, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Oct 23 2019, 04:36 PM)
You can add Discovery House Publishers :
https://dhdmalaysia.com/

Although i'm no baptist, but pantai baptist church have a history of good teachings. Can access their recordings here :
https://pbc.my/sermons-2/
*
ok added.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 25 2019, 10:29 AM

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Adam was covered in the splendor of God's Glory

Psalm 8:5 (NIV) - You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor.

Morning guys.

When God created Adam and Eve, I believe they were not really naked in the literal sense. Psalm 8:5 helps us to understand when God created Man, He covered them in his Glory.

The word crowned in the Hebrew in this passage is "Atar" which means "To surround". And the word Glory is the word ". kabowd" which means "honour, splendour, glory, of external condition and circumstances". It is the same word many time referring to God's Splendor of Glory.

Adam & Eve had a covering of God's Glory. What is the revelation for today's devotion?

Jesus said in John 17:22 (NIV) - I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one--
Here Jesus is praying for all believers, ie you and I. God has (past tense, meaning already given, not a maybe or a perhaps) given you his covering of Glory. What is the application?

You have been united back to God with a covering of His Glory as Christians. If you look at the same passage in verse 6 & 7 of today's scripture verse it says

You made him ruler of the works of Your hands; You have placed everything under his feet: all sheep and oxen, and even the beasts of the field, the birds of the air and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.

The Lord has given you dominion dear friends. If you are feeling down and out, Rise my friends and know that God has got you covered! Today God's creation of every animal and creature and this world are in a fallen state, hence why even in the literal sense, we no longer have the dominion as Adam had over creatures as in the garden of Eden. However in today's life, you have God's backing and resources of Heaven given to you by grace. Whatever circumstance that you are in, know that you have God's Glory covering you, be encourage and get up! press on in your life!

God Bless.

prophetjul
post Oct 25 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 23 2019, 12:24 AM)
"Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’

We serve a great God. We serve a great, great, great, great, God.

It's my privilege to follow Jesus Christ.
*
Jesus was making a reference to this in the Tanakh

Is 12:3

Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
SUSAlan K.
post Oct 25 2019, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 25 2019, 02:07 PM)
Jesus was making a reference to this in the Tanakh

Is 12:3

Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
*
ok, bro...... meet up for tea at Imago whn you go bck. I'll invite Einjahr too.

Peace out icon_rolleyes.gif
Einjahr
post Oct 25 2019, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Oct 25 2019, 06:30 PM)
ok, bro...... meet up for tea at Imago whn you go bck. I'll invite Einjahr too.

Peace out  icon_rolleyes.gif
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chill your tits
its not even Christmas yet
Crossbite P
post Oct 28 2019, 11:13 AM

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If God calls us to not worry or be anxious (Matthew 6:25-34, Philippians 4:6-7), do you all think worry is a sin? I wrote an interesting article on this topic recently.

https://www.christianityunfiltered.com/is-worrying-a-sin/
SUStalentrecruiter
post Oct 28 2019, 11:28 AM

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what's your thought about christian and non christian dating/marriage? millennial nowadays don't care, just date whoever they like, it's like date first then try to convert another half later.

This post has been edited by talentrecruiter: Oct 28 2019, 11:28 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 28 2019, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Crossbite @ Oct 28 2019, 11:13 AM)
If God calls us to not worry or be anxious (Matthew 6:25-34, Philippians 4:6-7), do you all think worry is a sin? I wrote an interesting article on this topic recently.

https://www.christianityunfiltered.com/is-worrying-a-sin/
*
.
Similarly, is having immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, doubts, etc in our hearts a sin.?
How should we deal with immoral sexual lust in our hearts.?
What does the Bible or Word of God say.?

electronictomato
post Oct 28 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 28 2019, 12:46 PM)
.
Similarly, is having immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, doubts, etc in our hearts a sin.?
How should we deal with immoral sexual lust in our hearts.?
What does the Bible or Word of God say.?
*
Repent, change and act according to your divine nature to control your carnage desire. If you do repent everyday, it will help you to improve. Along the way you will receive joy and blessing from god.
electronictomato
post Oct 28 2019, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(talentrecruiter @ Oct 28 2019, 11:28 AM)
what's your thought about christian and non christian dating/marriage? millennial nowadays don't care, just date whoever they like, it's like date first then try to convert another half later.
*
I think its not right to convert just for sake of marriage. Its fake conversion and god knows... when there is no faith, no point really for embrace any religion.

They just should go ahead tie the knot and dont even think about the religion. Its will be simpler and meaningful, atleast the non-christian can live his own life without limitation.
SUStalentrecruiter
post Oct 28 2019, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 28 2019, 01:27 PM)
I think its not right to convert just for sake of marriage. Its fake conversion and god knows... when there is no faith, no point really for embrace any religion.

They just should go ahead tie the knot and dont even think about the religion. Its will be simpler and meaningful, atleast the non-christian can live his own life without limitation.
*
you a christian or not? paul advice not to married with non-believer
electronictomato
post Oct 28 2019, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(talentrecruiter @ Oct 28 2019, 05:16 PM)
you a christian or not? paul advice not to married with non-believer
*
Im christian, but convert without faith for sake of marriage is just lame. Should he/she just stay away from non-christian at the 1st place dont you think.

I dont know much about paul u referring to, but i have a question, does its ok to marry fake converter according to paul? im curious about this
SUStalentrecruiter
post Oct 28 2019, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 28 2019, 05:53 PM)
Im christian, but convert without faith for sake of marriage is just lame. Should he/she just stay away from non-christian at the 1st place dont you think.

I dont know much about paul u referring to, but i have a question, does its ok to marry fake converter according to paul? im curious about this
*
He/she can say excuses cannot find gf/bf who's Christian
Crossbite P
post Oct 29 2019, 05:32 AM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 28 2019, 01:21 PM)
Repent, change and act according to your divine nature to control your carnage desire. If you do repent everyday, it will help you to improve. Along the way you will receive joy and blessing from god.
*
Well said. Change and obedience is possible through God. smile.gif
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 28 2019 @ 12:46 PM)
Similarly, is having immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, doubts, etc in our hearts a sin.?
How should we deal with immoral sexual lust in our hearts.?
What does the Bible or Word of God say.?

QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 28 2019, 01:21 PM)
Repent, change and act according to your divine nature to control your carnage desire. If you do repent everyday, it will help you to improve. Along the way you will receive joy and blessing from god.
*
.
Please give the Bible quote or quotes which states that we should repent, change and act according to our divine nature, in dealing with the immoral sexual lust in our hearts.
....... IOW, does the Bible or Word of God say that Christians can be without any immoral sexual lust in their hearts.? Does the Bible say that Chistians can be without any immoral/evil/lawless sexual deeds or sexual sins in their hands, feet and eyes.?

electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 10:40 AM)
.
Please give the Bible quote or quotes which states that we should repent, change and act  according to our divine nature, in dealing with the immoral sexual lust in our hearts.
....... IOW, does the Bible or Word of God say that Christians can be without any immoral sexual lust in their hearts.? Does the Bible say that Chistians can be without any immoral/evil/lawless sexual deeds or sexual sins in their hands, feet and eyes.?
*
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust..

Nope, we all sinners and not perfect.Thats why Christian taking sacrement everyweeks, this whole process can be described as to remember Jesus atonement and become good person bit by bit.

This post has been edited by electronictomato: Oct 29 2019, 01:33 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust..
....
*
.
So, in effect, you are saying that Christians can deal with immoral sexual lust in their hearts without the guidance of God's Word/laws/commandments as recorded by His prophets and apostles in the Bible, ie just the guidance from the Holy Spirit of God. May I remind you .......

2TIM.3:14-17 (NKJV) = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.
.
.
PROVERBS.1: =
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Shun Evil Counsel

8 My son, hear the instruction of your father,
And do not forsake the law of your mother;
9 For they will be a graceful ornament on your head,
And chains about your neck.
.

23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 29 2019, 02:10 PM
electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 02:08 PM)
.
So, in effect, you are saying that Christians can deal with immoral sexual lust in their hearts without the guidance of God's Word/laws/commandments as recorded by His prophets and apostles in the Bible, ie just the guidance from the Holy Spirit of God. May I remind you .......

2TIM.3:14-17 (NKJV) = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.
.
.
PROVERBS.1: =
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Shun Evil Counsel

8 My son, hear the instruction of your father,
And do not forsake the law of your mother;
9 For they will be a graceful ornament on your head,
And chains about your neck.
.

23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
*
Nope. I didnt say holy spirit is the only way.




SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 02:25 PM)
Nope. I didnt say holy spirit is the only way.
*
.
In effect, you have said so by not providing Scripture or the Word of God to backup what you said about how Christians should deal with immoral sexual lust in their hearts, ie ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.

....... So, please provide the Scripture/Word of God to affirm this saying of yours.

electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 02:57 PM)
.
In effect, you have said so by not providing Scripture or the Word of God to backup what you said about how Christians should deal with immoral sexual lust in their hearts, ie ....

....... So, please provide the Scripture/Word of God to affirm this saying of yours.
*
Im not a diligent reader, so i cant point which scripture inside the book.

I dont know what youre trying to imply, but as a christian, we believe holy spirit that guide and teach us in all aspects. Btw, you are not christian?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 03:09 PM)
Im not a diligent reader, so i cant point which scripture inside the book.

I dont know what youre trying to imply, but as a christian, we believe holy spirit that guide and teach us in all aspects. Btw, you are not christian?
*
.
MTTHEW.4:1-4 (NKJV) = Satan Tempts Jesus

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
.
.
JOHN.6:63 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
.
.
EPHESIANS.6:16-17 = 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 03:30 PM)
.
MTTHEW.4:1-4 (NKJV) = Satan Tempts Jesus

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
.
.
JOHN.6:63 =  63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
.
.
EPHESIANS.6:16-17 = 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
*
So you are not Christian. No wonder when i talk about holy spirit, u dont seems to understand.

We learn god words through scripture and holy spirit. Just for your information, we are not rigid like certain religion where they follow ancient scripture only.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 04:39 PM)
So you are not Christian. No wonder when i talk about holy spirit, u dont seems to understand.

We learn god words through scripture and holy spirit. Just for your information, we are not rigid like certain religion where they follow ancient scripture only.
*
.
That's was not what you actually said; ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.

.
So, from the Scripture and the Holy Spirit, please teach us how do you actually deal with immoral sexual lust in your heart.? Eg MATTHEW.5:27-30 - pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.?

SUStalentrecruiter
post Oct 29 2019, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 08:06 PM)
.
That's was not what you actually said; ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.

.
So, from the Scripture and the Holy Spirit, please teach us how do you actually deal with immoral sexual lust in your heart.? Eg MATTHEW.5:27-30 - pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.?
*
That's an exaggerated terms, it is common in the Bible. Have you not read, whoever tumble the little one should be thrown into the sea? Think of your past, have you sinned against the little one?
electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 08:06 PM)
.
That's was not what you actually said; ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.

.
So, from the Scripture and the Holy Spirit, please teach us how do you actually deal with immoral sexual lust in your heart.? Eg MATTHEW.5:27-30 - pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.?
*
you're keep asking the same question, its in the quote up here. Can u see? i asked you to pray and ask for god help and guidance.

However, if you still cant follow god guidance and become cancer to human kind, that extreme state of example, you can try it and stop yourself from mass rape and killing. Its always wise to sacrifice yourself instead of destroying so many ppl. Dont you think so?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 08:30 PM)
you're keep asking the same question, its in the quote up here. Can u see? i asked you to pray and ask for god help and guidance.
*
.
I can see no Bible quote from you.

Are you saying that Christians should follow your personal quote or sayings.? Are you God/Christ.? ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 29 2019, 08:54 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(talentrecruiter @ Oct 29 2019, 08:16 PM)
That's an exaggerated terms, it is common in the Bible. Have you not read, whoever tumble the little one should be thrown into the sea? Think of your past, have you sinned against the little one?
*
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MATTHEW.5:27-30 was no exaggeration, ie if the Jews and Pharisees still wanted to be saved from hell without believing in Jesus the Christ/Messiah, they would then have to pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs because that is how a person can be without any immoral sexual lust in his/her heart. You won't have immoral sexual lust in your heart if you can't see and can't commit adultery.

I believe if any of the Jews and Pharisees had accepted Jesus Christ's challenge to pluck out his eyes and cut off his limbs, He/Jesus would have granted him Paradise or salvation.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 29 2019, 09:44 PM
electronictomato
post Oct 29 2019, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 29 2019, 08:51 PM)
.
I can see no Bible quote from you.

Are you saying that Christians should follow your personal quote or sayings.? Are you God/Christ.? ....
QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019 @ 01:33 PM)
You have to pray to God and ask for his guidance. He will tell you personally through holy spirit how to deal with your sexual lust.

*
nope, i talked logic human with you and i know you are agree with me. Dont u think? eg. like someone equipped with heavy mc guns running around shooting, the best solution is to take him off right.

peace, dont get triggered bro. i just giving extreme example where u can apply the solution you have mentioned. thats all... smh icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by electronictomato: Oct 29 2019, 09:11 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 29 2019, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(electronictomato @ Oct 29 2019, 09:09 PM)
nope, i talked logic human with you and i know you are agree with me. Dont u think? eg. like someone equipped with heavy mc guns running around shooting, the best solution is to take him off right.

peace, dont get triggered bro. i just giving extreme example where u can apply the solution you have mentioned. thats all... smh icon_rolleyes.gif
*
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When it comes to the guide-in-living and the way to salvation/heaven, I only agree with God/Christ and His Word/Law/commandments as recorded in the Bible, not with you or even Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant Reformation or with the Roman Catholic Popes.

Peace to you too.
.
.
1JOHN.4:1-6 (NKJV) = 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 29 2019, 09:26 PM
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post Oct 29 2019, 09:56 PM

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Ha ha ha
prophetjul
post Oct 30 2019, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(Crossbite @ Oct 28 2019, 11:13 AM)
If God calls us to not worry or be anxious (Matthew 6:25-34, Philippians 4:6-7), do you all think worry is a sin? I wrote an interesting article on this topic recently.

https://www.christianityunfiltered.com/is-worrying-a-sin/
*
QUOTE
A Christian blog that challenges traditional church teachings


i like this. thumbsup.gif

The RCC has managed to transfer many of their pagan and ungodly traditions into the Christian world, neglecting the instructions of God.
Through the millennium, lies have become Truths in the churches through the practices and repetitive traditions, which the churches have taken for granted.

The biggest error was the anti Jewish bias of the church through out the ages, reinforced by Luther who was seen and still is a hero amongst reformists.

Without the Jewish foundations of understanding, pretty much anything goes.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 30 2019, 12:02 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 2 2019, 12:24 PM

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Fyi, a case study, .......
.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4612114/+920
QUOTE(BillCollector)
My parents divorced when I was 3, I have a sister that is 2 years younger. I never met him again till I was 28 and realized all that I was told about him were nothing but lies. .......
.......

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

.
So, during a critical point in your college life in USA when you were in financial dire straits in 1997, God miraculously answered your prayers for college finance through 2 old US Christian ladies = you became a firm believer in the Christian God and has since regularly repaid His blessings with tithes and gift offerings to Churches. Is that all the Gospel/Bible is about, ie only a financial relationship with God.? What about holy living and salvation from hell - 1COR.5:1-13 & 6:9-11 & 11:30, GAL.5:19-21, REV.22:12-17.?

Unfortunately, you continued in your sins/law-breaking in sexual immorality(= against God's Word at JOHN.5:14 & 8:11, ACTS.15:19-29, 1COR.6:14-20 & 3:16-17) and proceeded to marry an unbeliever(against the Word of God at 2COR.6:14). Hence, you have suffered the consequences of your sins/law-breaking, eg quarrels with your non-Christian in-laws, divorce, separation from your 2 kids, high blood pressure, losing hair, losing money in bad auctioned houses, etc. You should have married one of the young female relatives of Mrs Rogers or Mrs Anders who is a believer.
....... Your unbelieving wife and in-laws are a very bad influence on you. What's done is done and let bygones be bygones, no matter how bad, ie you need to suffer for your sins/law-breaking. Christians do not have the "Get out of Jail Free" card for their willful sins/law-breaking(HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8) - they only have the "Get out of Hell Free" card for their inherited Adam's Original Sin, through faith in Jesus Christ(ROMANS.5:12).
.

The Bible says Jesus Christ was God-in-the-flesh(JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIM.3:16, JOHN.8:58/EXO.3:14, ISA.9:6) and at ACTS.15:19-29 and ROMANS.14:1-4, the Holy Spirit of God(= is Jesus also - 2COR.3:17, JOHN.6:63) exempted new Gentile Christians from any of His laws which proved a burden to them, eg circumcision(GEN.34:25), dietary laws, etc.

OTOH, the Gentile Christians were still required to keep any of His laws which proved not a burden, eg avoid sexual immorality, keep the Ten Commandments/laws, etc(1COR.5:5 & 6:9-11, GAL.5:19-21). Otherwise, they may likely end up not saved from hell, eg by losing faith after suffering for their law-breaking/sins/evil-deeds - 1COR.11:30, 1JOHN.5:16, DEUT.28:15, ROM.2:5-11, 1TIM.4:1, JOB.2:9.

In comparison, Jewish Christians were required by God to continue to keep His 613 laws, as many as possible, because they were not a burden to them since they had already done so from childhood - ACTS.21:20-25, 2TIM.3:14-17.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles(ACTS.9:15-16) was just obeying God and His latest revelation at ACTS.15 when Paul contested against the Judaizers(GAL.2:9-14) by teaching the doctrine of justification for salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not by keeping all the 613 laws of God, even though the Law could bring earthly blessings from God, ie a good and long life on earth. Paul did not teach Gentile Christians to go and sin some more after conversion, only that they were exempted or liberated from burdensome laws.
....... Why did God exempt the Gentile Christians.? = because for many new Gentile Christians who might already be mired in the consequences/effects of sins/law-breaking in their previous lawless Gentile lives, inheriting eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ trumps gaining a long life through the 613 laws of Moses, eg the robber/sinner/law-breaker who was crucified next to Jesus Christ at LUKE.23:43 was able to inherit Paradise through faith in Jesus, even though he had to die young for his sin of robbery.

God/Jesus's ideal believer was a Jewish Christian who kept His laws and believed in Jesus of Nazareth as his/her Christ/Messiah(cf; MATTHEW.19:16-23). But alas, most of the Jews in the 1st century AD rejected Him as the Christ/Messiah and killed Him on the Cross. So, the gospel of salvation was then extended to the mostly wild/lawless Gentiles and that is where many problems crop up wrt Christian doctrines, eg false prophets/teachers/pastors(MATTHEW.7:15-23, ROMANS.11).

Most new Gentile Christians need to begin their new born-again life in the Spirit by keeping the 4 simple, easy and non-burdensome laws of Moses at ACTS.15:28-29. Thereafter, they should gradually grow from spiritual babes-in-Christ to spiritual adults or men of God(1COR.3:1-3, 2TIM.3:16-17) by learning to keep the other non-burdensome laws of God so as to avoid sinning/evil-doing/law-breaking and getting cursed or punished by God = avoid a sad and short life on earth and risk losing their faith/salvation.(HEB.8:10-11 & 10:15)

Good day.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 5 2019, 04:50 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 2 2019, 12:37 PM

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Repentance in the parable of the lost coin, lost sheep and prodigal son

Read entire chapter of Luke 15:1-31


We are all familiar with the word repentance. It is usually depict as being sorrowful or remorseful of your sin, crying and wailing over it.
But there is another aspect which many are not familiar with.

Today I will expound and share with you that you may be enlightened to know where we have missed it. Many times we can cry at the altar, be ok for few days but within weeks, we are back to square one and that is the reality with many of us. What is the revelation of repentance in this 3 parables?

If you read it from verse 1 to the end, you will find the lost sheep is not really the focal point or the key point. Look at who is the one doing the searching, the carrying, the loving and the celebrating? The main focus of the hero here is God himself.

In the parable of the lost sheep and lost coin, no where will you find this chest beating, being remorseful over the sin and YET Jesus mention about the word repentance in here. So what is being repented in here?

Well the answer is, the sheep or the lost consented to be found, consented to be carry by the strong shoulders of Jesus, and most IMPORTANTLY consented to be loved by God. THAT is repentance my dear friends. The revelation of repentance in this 3 parable is that you must consent to be loved by God to accept his love and that INVOLVES you 1st and foremost coming to God, consenting for God to receive you despite of your failures and flaws.

If you think about it...even in the parable of the prodigal son, God the Father did not allow that lost son to complete his rehearsed remorseful speech. He was cut off after he said " I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’....God the Father cut off his remorse sin speech by quickly gave him abundance of Grace by giving of best robe (restoring righteousness), ring on his finger (signifying authority as a son) and sandals on his feet, meaning He is welcome home, he has the right to step foot at the Father's house. Best of all the fattened calf was given ( restoring providence).

It seems that God is more concern that you come to him more than anything. Why? Because repentance can only happen with God's power in your life. You being so critical of sin or remorseful over it can only do so little but does not help.

My friends. Be repented that God is not out to get you for your sins but to restore you and to love you. Be like the lost sheep, consent to be carry by God, be like the lost coin, consent to be found and be like the lost son, consent to be loved!

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 2 2019, 01:00 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 2 2019, 03:32 PM

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MATTHEW.7:21-23 (NKJV) = I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
_______ _______

Imagine, some "Christians" are unknown to God. Wonder why.? Maybe they do not believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God/Jesus(MATTHEW.4:4), ie they believe only in some words of God that agree with them(is right in their own eyes) or they do not know who Jesus Christ really is(eg 1COR.15:24, 2COR.3:17).

Such unknown "Christians" can be judged by their evil works or fruits of lawlessness and they really need to repent.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 2 2019, 04:51 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 3 2019, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 2 2019 @ 12:11 PM)
proceeded to marry an unbeliever(against the Word of God at 2COR.6:14)

QUOTE(Yggdrasil)
FYI, marrying an unbeliever is not a sin.
It was recommended by Paul to Corinthian church because there were many Pagan religions that existed at that time.
Their spouse may easily influence them to convert out of Christianity.

Most churches allow marriage between believer and unbeliever but warn them of the dangers.

.
1COR.7: (NKJV) = Keep Your Marriage Vows

10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

Live as You Are Called

17 But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches. 18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

To the Unmarried and Widows

25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.

32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. 33 But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. 34 There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. 35 And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.

_______ _______

Yggdrasil

No, unmarried Christians willfully marrying unbelievers is a sin.

1COR.7 has to be read in context. If a Gentile Christian is called into belief/faith or converted by God while being married to an unbeliever, the Christian should remain with God in that state in which he/she was called, and not seek to divorce his/her unbelieving spouse.
....... 1COR.7 does not apply to an unmarried Gentile Christian who has been called or converted by God, who then goes and willfully marries an unbeliever. If he/she does, he/she has committed a sin - 2COR.6:14.

Paul recommended unmarried Christians to remain unmarried so that they could give full devotion to God and His work. Even if they wanted to marry, they should only marry a believer - this is not a sin.

The above principles of Christian marriage wrt believers and unbelievers, follow that of Moses Law where the Jews were prohibited from marrying unbelieving Gentiles.

.......

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 3 2019, 01:18 PM
Roman Catholic
post Nov 3 2019, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 3 2019, 01:10 PM)

No, unmarried Christians willfully marrying unbelievers is a sin. .
.......
*
Please show me specifically where in the Holy Bible says that such union is a SIN ?
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 3 2019, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 3 2019, 03:28 PM)
Please show me specifically where in the Holy Bible says that such union is a SIN ?
*
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1COR.7:39 (NKJV) = 39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

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2COR.6:14-18 = 14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”

17 Therefore

“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
18
“I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.”

.
GENESIS.2:24 = 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
.
1COR.6:15-20 = 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
.
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1COR.3:16-17 = .16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 3 2019, 04:17 PM
Roman Catholic
post Nov 3 2019, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 3 2019, 04:01 PM)
.
1COR.7:39 (NKJV) = 39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

.
2COR.6:14-18 = 14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”

17 Therefore

“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
18
“I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.”

.
GENESIS.2:24 = 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
.
1COR.6:15-20 = 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
.
.
1COR.3:16-17 = .16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
.
*
There's absolutely nothing about sin from such union in those verses.
Roman Catholic
post Nov 3 2019, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Oct 4 2019, 10:17 PM)
I find that if you simply ignore posters like these, they eventually fade back into the woodwork.

This dupe probably is one of our regular friends who visit us from time to time.

His doctrines are unusual to say the least but are mostly harmless other than give the rest of us a bad rep.

So, no harm done
*
I reckon you are right and I never thought I would have to use the Ignore List here but I have to just to keep my sanity.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 3 2019, 04:16 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 3 2019, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 3 2019, 04:13 PM)
There's absolutely nothing about sin from such union in those verses.
*
.
The Bible verses say that when a Christian marries an unbeliever(= the two shall become one flesh), he/she is joining together the temple of God with the temple of Belial/idols/lawlessness/darkness. Lawlessness is sin. .......

1JOHN.3:4-5 = 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 3 2019, 04:55 PM
pehkay
post Nov 3 2019, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 3 2019, 04:29 PM)
.
The Bible verses say that when a Christian marries an unbeliever(= the two shall become one flesh), he/she is joining together the temple of God with the temple of Belial/idols/lawlessness/darkness. Lawlessness is sin. .......

1JOHN.3:4-5 = 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
.
*
I think .... it depends on the definition of sin when discussing. Now most believers will always associate sin with moral sin in which, is just one of the aspect, then no, it is not sinful in that way.

In the Old Testament God instituted marriage before sin came into the world. In the New Testament, Paul said that marriage not only is allowed but also is a necessity because of the presence of sin (1 Cor. 7).

Marriage can prevent sin. This is why Paul said that men should have their own wives and women should have their own husbands. This is to prevent the sin of fornication (v. 2).

According to principle in 1 Cor 7, we can say that the best thing for a brother to do is to marry a sister in the Lord. If it is not possible to do this, it is best if he does not marry at all. However, if he must marry, we still would be happy to see him marry. Even if the other party is an unbeliever, we still would like to see him marry.

This is not a dogma ... but the praticality of it ... IMHO .... er ...

IMHO (I could be wrong but be general), I would rather see a person commit a sin against God's government (lawlessness - you can say) rather than a moral sin. If by not marrying I fall into sin, I commit a moral sin. If I marry an unbelieving woman, I commit a sin against God's government.

He or she should realize that serious problems lie ahead. It is particularly hard for a believer to marry an unbeliever. Problems come when one decided to be absolute for the Lord ... then, the differing goals will conflicts. XD


But this is not a hammer to throw around ......... XD


SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 3 2019, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Nov 3 2019, 06:51 PM)
I think .... it depends on the definition of sin when discussing. Now most believers will always associate sin with moral sin in which, is just one of the aspect, then no, it is not sinful in that way.

In the Old Testament God instituted marriage before sin came into the world. In the New Testament, Paul said that marriage not only is allowed but also is a necessity because of the presence of sin (1 Cor. 7).

Marriage can prevent sin. This is why Paul said that men should have their own wives and women should have their own husbands. This is to prevent the sin of fornication (v. 2).

According to principle in 1 Cor 7, we can say that the best thing for a brother to do is to marry a sister in the Lord. If it is not possible to do this, it is best if he does not marry at all. However, if he must marry, we still would be happy to see him marry. Even if the other party is an unbeliever, we still would like to see him marry.

This is not a dogma ... but the praticality of it ... IMHO .... er ...

IMHO (I could be wrong but be general), I would rather see a person commit a sin against God's government (lawlessness - you can say) rather than a moral sin. If by not marrying I fall into sin, I commit a moral sin. If I marry an unbelieving woman, I commit a sin against God's government.

He or she should realize that serious problems lie ahead. It is particularly hard for a believer to marry an unbeliever. Problems come when one decided to be absolute for the Lord ... then, the differing goals will conflicts. XD
But this is not a hammer to throw around ......... XD
*
.
The Word of God at 2COR.6:14-18 says that God will not dwell in those lawless "Christians" who go and willfully marry unbelievers = be one flesh with their unbelieving spouse = joined to the temple of Belial/idols/lawlessness/darkness.



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post Nov 4 2019, 07:24 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:59 AM)
2) concerning the many "new" posters and some of the subject matter, we had better be wise as serpents and innocent as doves

Good day to you all.
*
I hear you man. Our Lord Jesus Christ warns us about false teachers. Even the Devil knows how to quote Sacred Scriptures !

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 4 2019, 07:26 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 09:50 AM

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MATTHEW.7:15-23 (NKJV) = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
.
.
JOHN.15:1-4 = 15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
.
.
GALATIANS.5:19-23 = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
.
.
HEBREWS.8:10 = 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

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post Nov 4 2019, 11:37 AM

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Nov 4 2019, 11:56 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No arguing with Catholics

yeeck
post Nov 4 2019, 11:42 AM

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Nov 4 2019, 11:56 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No Arguing

yaokb
post Nov 4 2019, 11:43 AM

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Hi

I would like to request your help in this survey for a FYP of someone close to me.

Your assistance is much appreciated

Thanks




https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage...lE3SUQxSVo3Ry4u


Apologies. link error. edited

This post has been edited by yaokb: Nov 4 2019, 12:01 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 4 2019, 12:00 PM

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lurkingaround

Can you stop your this trying to pick fight with people in here?


SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 12:02 PM

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yeeck

Your apologism will be better received at the LYN Catholic thread, not on this Protestant thread.

So far, we have 3 Roman Catholics infesting this Protestant thread, ie 'Roman Catholic', yeeck and yaokb. How many Protestants have infested the Catholic thread.? 0, 1 or 2 or 4.?
....... False Christians are judged by their evil works or fruits of lawlessness, as per MATTHEW.7:15-23.
yeeck
post Nov 4 2019, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 12:02 PM)
yeeck

Your apologism will be better received at the LYN Catholic thread, not on this Protestant thread.

So far, we have 3 Roman Catholics infesting this Protestant thread, ie 'Roman Catholic', yeeck and yaokb. How many Protestants have infested the Catholic thread.? 0, 1 or 2 or 4.?
....... False Christians are judged by their evil works or fruits of lawlessness, as per MATTHEW.7:15-23.
*
If you can't stand your falsehood being exposed, then don't pick a fight.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 4 2019, 12:04 PM)
If you can't stand your falsehood being exposed, then don't pick a fight.
*
.
2TIMOTHY.4:7 (NKJV) = 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

.
1TIMOTHY.6:11-16 = The Good Confession

11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 4 2019, 12:04 PM)
If you can't stand your falsehood being exposed, then don't pick a fight.
*
.
Roman Catholics coming to a LYN Protestant thread to expose falsehood by Protestants.? What a joke.? Most of you are out of the league of spiritual Protestants, especially those Protestants who hold to "Sola Scripture".

Better for the above-mentioned Roman Catholics to clean their own dirty house first and put it in order, eg by obeying the commandments/laws/Word of God, instead of foolishly obeying their fallible and falsy Popes.

yeeck
post Nov 4 2019, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 12:25 PM)
.
Roman Catholics coming to a LYN Protestant thread to expose falsehood by Protestants.? What a joke.? Most of you are out of the league of spiritual Protestants, especially those Protestants who hold to "Sola Scripture".

Better for the above-mentioned Roman Catholics to clean their own dirty house first and put it in order, eg by obeying the commandments/laws/Word of God, instead of foolishly obeying their fallible and falsy Popes.
*
For a start, your different Protestants hold different doctrines due to Sola Scriptura. BTW the title of this thread is Christian, not Protestant.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Nov 4 2019, 12:34 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 4 2019, 12:31 PM)
For a start, your different Protestants hold different doctrines due to Sola Scriptura. BTW the title of this thread is Christian, not Protestant.
*
.
In that case, why do you have a LYN Catholic thread.? Please delete that LYN Catholic thread so that the Catholics can join all the other Christians here and maybe be reformed by the spiritual Protestants.

Why do a few Roman Catholics come to this Christian thread to break the thread rules/laws, ie bash Protestants or "expose the falsehood" of Protestants.? .......
QUOTE
3. NO PREACHING or bashing of other religions/denominations. We are one in the family.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395 - LYN Christian Lounge V5
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 4 2019, 12:57 PM

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Guys .....the main function here is to support each other, help one another and fellowship as christians.

I think you'd completely missed the point to think this is a platform to argue on theology. It is not.

If you want to share scripture, try to be more encouraging, one that spurs faith instead of diminishing it, pls don't exhibit prophet of doom.

We have enough of it, in the past. I want to change the environment in here.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 4 2019, 01:03 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 01:22 PM

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2TIMOTHY.3:16-17 (NKJV) = 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
_______

Long-winded arguments over differences in opinion is pointless and should be stopped, especially about the afterlife and its judgment, eg Catholicism vs Protestantism, OSAS vs non-OSAS; predestination/pre-election vs non-predestination.
....... But for the establishment of doctrines, reproofs, correction and instruction in righteousness that are firmly based on the Holy Scripture or Word of God, they should be allowed. Of course, they should not be repeated ad nauseum like a broken record, but only when appropriate.


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 4 2019, 01:23 PM
yeeck
post Nov 4 2019, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 12:52 PM)
.
In that case, why do you have a LYN Catholic thread.?  Please delete that LYN Catholic thread so that the Catholics can join all the other Christians here and maybe be reformed by the spiritual Protestants.

Why do a few Roman Catholics come to this Christian thread to break the thread rules/laws, ie bash Protestants or "expose the falsehood" of Protestants.? .......

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395 - LYN Christian Lounge V5
*
Not until someone like you started it....lol
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround)
In that case, why do you have a LYN Catholic thread.? Please delete that LYN Catholic thread so that the Catholics can join all the other Christians here and maybe be reformed by the spiritual Protestants.

Why do a few Roman Catholics come to this Christian thread to break the thread rules/laws, ie bash Protestants or "expose the falsehood" of Protestants.? .......

QUOTE
3. NO PREACHING or bashing of other religions/denominations. We are one in the family.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395 - LYN Christian Lounge V5

QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 4 2019, 01:58 PM)
Not until someone like you started it....lol
*
.
So, since someone like you came on this LYN Christian thread and started your Catholic shenanigans, we Protestants should also start our own LYN Protestant thread to exclude Catholics.? This is what righteous Protestants should do, ie apply the law of ni4ni.
....... Alas, some Protestant Christians are poor defenders and fighters of the faith, eg they foolishly "turn the other cheek" when slapped by evil law-breaking Catholics on the right cheek and "love their enemies" who are evil law-breaking Catholics.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 4 2019, 03:06 PM
yeeck
post Nov 4 2019, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 03:05 PM)
.
So, since someone like you came on this LYN Christian thread  and started your Catholic shenanigans, we Protestants should also start our own LYN Protestant thread to exclude Catholics.?  This is what righteous Protestants should do, ie apply the law of ni4ni.
....... Alas, some Protestant Christians are poor defenders and fighters of the faith, eg they foolishly "turn the other cheek" when slapped by evil law-breaking Catholics on the right cheek and "love their enemies" who are evil law-breaking Catholics.
.
*
Defenders of what faith? your faith is different from that of the others here, I can see, just by seeing how they reply to your posts. And the way you talk is as if all Protestants are perfect law-abiding Christians.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 4 2019, 04:07 PM)
Defenders of what faith? your faith is different from that of the others here, I can see, just by seeing how they reply to your posts. And the way you talk is as if all Protestants are perfect law-abiding Christians.
*
.
Please go back to your LYN Catholic Fellowship thread and stop bothering Protestants here, whether they are law-abiding or not. Why be a busybody on this thread.? Do you enjoy being deleted on this thread.?

SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 4 2019, 07:31 PM

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yeeck
QUOTE(yeeck 4 Mar 2015)
Starting a Catholic thread here as the other Christian forum is too generic and more towards Protestantism.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3512530 - LYN Catholic Fellowship V01 (Group), For Catholics (Roman or Eastern)

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 4 2019, 07:47 PM
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 4 2019, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 07:31 PM)
yeeck

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3512530 - LYN Catholic Fellowship V01 (Group), For Catholics (Roman or Eastern)
*
Sorry, but how am i supposed to take you seriously, when you say Christians should not buy insurance policies?

i'm a Protestant like yourself too. So i can post here rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 03:35 AM

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Someone pointed me here from my thread.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4860139/+60#

Just wanna share my story and the consequences of sin.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 5 2019, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 03:35 AM)
Someone pointed me here from my thread.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4860139/+60#

Just wanna share my story and the consequences of sin.
*
I think you must have probably heard this a thousand time and it has become a cliche in the christian circle but it is the only source of answer.

You have to put God first in your life in seeking fulfillment, the gap in your life. If you do that, there is always hope for things to fall into places because God would be in the picture.

How do you go about doing this? well spend as much time as you can in quiet solitude with God but do it with Faith believing He is there listening. Read his word "expecting" for Him to speak back via his word. the Bible.

Whatever words that jump at you, do it. Obey and be patience. Pray a lot.

It's what I do. I bother God for every little things in my life. It has help me a lot seeing that God do response when you come to him in Faith.

EVEN your this predicament, it matters to God.


prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 5 2019, 08:29 AM)
I think you must have probably heard this a thousand time and it has become a cliche in the christian circle but it is the only source of answer.

You have to put God first in your life in seeking fulfillment, the gap in your life. If you do that, there is always hope for things to fall into places because God would be in the picture.

How do you go about doing this? well spend as much time as you can in quiet solitude with God but do it with Faith believing He is there listening. Read his word "expecting" for Him to speak back via his word. the Bible.

Whatever words that jump at you, do it. Obey and be patience. Pray a lot.

It's what I do. I bother God for every little things in my life. It has help me a lot seeing that God do response when you come to him in Faith.

EVEN your this predicament, it matters to God.
*
I wish I have the same obedience as you then all these problems in my life will be avoided.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 5 2019, 11:25 AM

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The Daily Christian life is to live Romans 5:17 daily

Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

We all have our daily battles in life. We all crave for solutions and many time we try to solve things with whatever way we know. You all have heard in your church preaching of sermons, if you always focus on the problem, you make the problem bigger, God seem to be far away, silent. But if your faith is in God, things can turn around...You get the idea.

The underlying principle is the same when it comes to sin. Every time you focus on it, too much of it, the tendency to sin is there with an unending spiral that never gets out. I'm not here to discount sin away. It is there. We need to acknowledge there is sin in the flesh.

But I'm here today to declare to you, our Lord Jesus FINISHED work on the cross has removed your sin. Let our focus be on this grace daily.
This gift has to be received everyday even if you don't feel like it. The life of a Christians is not about feelings of how great your sin is but how great the work of our Lord is.

We all know that we cannot do anything to earn our Salvation, it is by receiving God's Grace, by believing in Christ Jesus we are saved. And Repentance has very much to do with consenting to receive God's Love, Mercy and Grace as explain in my previous devotion. For without it, you can only do so little in your fight against sin. God's gift of righteousness is a gift given to you, You cannot earn it. Do you know that the Lord is YOUR righteousness? It is never yours. God gave it to you because of your faith in Christ.

From beginning to end, from the start of your Christian life to the day you pass on, this gift of righteousness is always of grace never something you performed in conjunction to God's law.

I pray that the Lord will give you spiritual revelation here, understand that we all need Grace on daily basis. Best of all, God understand it much better for it is the Lord who tells you,

THOSE WHO RECEIVE "ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL REIGN IN LIFE disclaimer: it is through Jesus Christ.

When you do this daily, receiving God's Grace (receive His Love and the Gift of no condemnation) and the Gift of his Righteousness (Christ Righteousness), God is the one who will open doors in your life and make every crooked path straight that you will be the one who is reigning!

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 5 2019, 11:38 AM
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 5 2019, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 03:35 AM)
Someone pointed me here from my thread.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4860139/+60#

Just wanna share my story and the consequences of sin.
*
.
Please refer to 1COR.7 for your "diagnosis" from God/Jesus, eg " For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

4 years in a romantic relationship without sex and/or petting is quite unbearable(especially for the man) and may be a sin against both the young sexually virile partners.

My personal opinion and solution is for such a young committed Christian couple to be Spirit'ually married in front of God, like how Adam was married to Eve, consummate the marriage but practice birth-control, until they can legally and/or financially marry later on = cannot divorce once spiritually married by God = a grave sin to divorce.

In ancient days, eg in the OT and Imperial China, youths were married off by their parents soon after puberty, ie in their mid-teens = no problem of pre-marital sex and sexual sins like yours. Since the 1950s, society has changed to compel youths to only be able to be married after their 20s, eg educational and financial requirements = problem of pre-marital sex, sexual sins like yours(could not bear with no pre-marital sex) and unmarried teen pregnancies.

So, maybe you should stop feeling guilty about your sexual sin(= sexting) with your divorced lady friend and throw the Bible book of 1COR.7 and GEN.2:24 at your ex-gf. If this does not solve the problem with your ex-gf, then you will just have to move on.

Best of luck, have a good rest and good day.
.
.
.
P S - I knew of a similar story between a young committed Christian couple in a US college. The gf insisted on no pre-marital sex. This was since they got together in high-school = 5 years. So the bf acquiesced.
....... Somehow, the gf ended up losing her virginity to a non-Christian male college mate. Most probably in a drunken college party. So, they broke up and the bf was never the same again afterwards = stayed gf-less, Churchless and single in his 30s was the last I heard of him. The ex-gf probably became Churchless as well, eg married an unbeliever.

Girls get drunk much faster than boys, for the same amount of alcohol consumed because their digestive systems do not efficiently excrete alcohol. Many young gullible girls do not know this, get pushed to drink at parties, became drunk and easily raped or gang-raped.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 5 2019, 12:49 PM
yaokb
post Nov 5 2019, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 09:40 AM)
I wish I have the same obedience as you then all these problems in my life will be avoided.
*
I have read your other thread and I emphatise with you.

I want to remind you that God loves you and He has the best in store for you.

Romans 8:28 reminds us

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28 NKJV

God in His infinite wisdom and knowledge sees the end of the matter. We only see the present moment and it hurts.
Every hurt we go through has a teaching moment, if learnt, will become a blessing or help to someone else in the future.

Do not despair.

It has only been two weeks since your breakup and the hurt will be there for some time to come. I think the girl is hurting also because of the perceived "betrayal".

She needs time to process what had happened and it does not mean it is the end for both of you.

What would I do in your situation?

I would continue to keep in touch with her via text messages even tho we agreed not to contact her.
Good morning messages
think of you messages. etc.

just to let her know she is still important to you.

Women are complicated. If you don't contact her she might think you are no longer interested even tho you are just honoring the no contact agreement.

Do you have a church pastor or cell leader you can talk to to unburdrn yourself? if yes, do talk to them.

Keeping you in prayer.

God bless.



prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 5 2019, 11:25 AM)
The Daily Christian life is to live Romans 5:17 daily

Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

We all have our daily battles in life. We all crave for solutions and many time we try to solve things with whatever way we know. You all have heard in your church preaching of sermons, if you always focus on the problem, you make the problem bigger, God seem to be far away, silent. But if your faith is in God, things can turn around...You get the idea.

The underlying principle is the same when it comes to sin. Every time you focus on it, too much of it, the tendency to sin is there with an unending spiral that never gets out. I'm not here to discount sin away. It is there. We need to acknowledge there is sin in the flesh.

But I'm here today to declare to you, our Lord Jesus FINISHED work on the cross has removed your sin. Let our focus be on this grace daily.
This gift has to be received everyday even if you don't feel like it. The life of a Christians is not about feelings of how great your sin is but how great the work of our Lord is.

We all know that we cannot do anything to earn our Salvation, it is by receiving God's Grace, by believing in Christ Jesus we are saved. And Repentance has very much to do with consenting to receive God's Love, Mercy and Grace as explain in my previous devotion. For without it, you can only do so little in your fight against sin. God's gift of righteousness is a gift given to you, You cannot earn it. Do you know that the Lord is YOUR righteousness? It is never yours. God gave it to you because of your faith in Christ.

From beginning to end, from the start of your Christian life to the day you pass on, this gift of righteousness is always of grace never something you performed in conjunction to God's law.

I pray that the Lord will give you spiritual revelation here, understand that we all need Grace on daily basis. Best of all, God understand it much better for it is the Lord who tells you,

THOSE WHO RECEIVE "ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL REIGN IN LIFE disclaimer: it is through Jesus Christ.

When you do this daily, receiving God's Grace (receive His Love and the Gift of no condemnation) and the Gift of his Righteousness (Christ Righteousness), God is the one who will open doors in your life and make every crooked path straight that you will be the one who is reigning!

God Bless.

*
Thank you so much bro. This makes so much sense to a Christian life.

This: The life of a Christians is not about feelings of how great your sin is but how great the work of our Lord is.
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Nov 5 2019, 03:49 PM)
I have read your other thread and I emphatise with you.

I want to remind you that God loves you and He has the best in store for you.

Romans 8:28 reminds us

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28 NKJV

God in His infinite wisdom and knowledge sees the end of the matter. We only see the present moment and it hurts.
Every hurt we go through has a teaching moment, if learnt, will become a blessing or help to someone else in the future.

Do not despair.

It has only been two weeks since your breakup and the hurt will be there for some time to come. I think the girl is hurting also because of the perceived "betrayal".

She needs time to process what had happened and it does not mean it is the end for both of you.

What would I do in your situation?

I would continue to keep in touch with her via text messages even tho we agreed not to contact her.
Good morning messages
think of you messages. etc.

just to let her know she is still important to you.

Women are complicated. If you don't contact her she might think you are no longer interested even tho you are just honoring the no contact agreement.

Do you have a church pastor or cell leader you can talk to to unburdrn yourself? if yes, do talk to them.

Keeping you in prayer.

God bless.
*
Thank you. I moved to a new church cause I could not be together at the same church as my ex. Many memories and it will hurt both of us.

I have reached out to the pastor but have not spoken to him about my problems. I just asked if he could lead me in spiritual growth.

Thank you for sharing your advice. Really appreciate it. I will give a serious thought on how to contact her.

prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 5 2019, 12:24 PM)
.
Please refer to 1COR.7 for your "diagnosis" from God/Jesus, eg " For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

4 years in a romantic relationship without sex and/or petting is quite unbearable(especially for the man) and may be a sin against both the young sexually virile partners.

My personal opinion and solution is for such a young committed Christian couple to be Spirit'ually married in front of God, like how Adam was married to Eve, consummate the marriage but practice birth-control, until they can legally and/or financially marry later on = cannot divorce once spiritually married by God = a grave sin to divorce.

In ancient days, eg in the OT and Imperial China, youths were married off by their parents soon after puberty, ie in their mid-teens = no problem of pre-marital sex and sexual sins like yours.  Since the 1950s, society has changed to compel youths to only be able to be married after their 20s, eg educational and financial requirements = problem of pre-marital sex, sexual sins like yours(could not bear with no pre-marital sex) and unmarried teen pregnancies.

So, maybe you should stop feeling guilty about your sexual sin(= sexting) with your divorced lady friend and throw the Bible book of 1COR.7 and GEN.2:24 at your ex-gf. If this does not solve the problem with your ex-gf, then you will just have to move on.

Best of luck, have a good rest and good day.
.
.
.
P S - I knew of a similar story between a young committed Christian couple in a US college. The gf insisted on no pre-marital sex. This was since they got together in high-school = 5 years. So the bf acquiesced.
....... Somehow, the gf ended up losing her virginity to a non-Christian male college mate. Most probably in a drunken college party. So, they broke up and the bf was never the same again afterwards = stayed gf-less, Churchless and single in his 30s was the last I heard of him. The ex-gf probably became Churchless as well, eg married an unbeliever.

Girls get drunk much faster than boys, for the same amount of alcohol consumed because their digestive systems do not efficiently excrete alcohol. Many young gullible girls do not know this, get pushed to drink at parties, became drunk and easily raped or gang-raped.
.
*
We are actually not young. I'm 31 and she's 30.

I dont know how should I stop feeling guilty about what I did because the fact is that I did something very wrong.

Is there such practice as spiritually married? Anyway, the two verse you shared doesnt really justify its okay to sexual sin right? How can I share this to her?
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 5 2019, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 05:09 PM)
We are actually not young. I'm 31 and she's 30.

I dont know how should I stop feeling guilty about what I did because the fact is that I did something very wrong.
*
.
You would not have committed the sexting-sin against your ex-gf if she had not insisted on the no-premarital sex rule or if both of you had gotten Spirit'ually married and consummated. So, the root blame may lie in incorrect Christian teaching that burdens God's young people - whereas, the Lord/God Jesus Christ said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. 4 to 5 years of no-sex for a committed young Christian legally-unmarried couple is too much of a burden to bear.

Or both of you should have pushed and gotten legally married 3 to 4 years ago = you would not have recently sinned.

Sex between a Spirit'ually married Christian couple is not a sin/evil-deed/law-breaking.

Did we have lawyers and legal marriage papers when Adam married Eve, Abraham married Sarah, Jacob married Rachel, etc.? = they were Spirit'ually married, and not legally married by a local authority.

Today, legal marriage papers is only a requirement by the local authorities for the purpose of inheritance, spousal benefits, legal recognition of offsprings for access to government facilities, etc. If you do not need these purposes of a legal marriage paper, then obeying God/Jesus/the-Spirit is more important than obeying Caesar/government(MATTHEW.22:21) wrt marriage and sex, as per 1COR.7 and GEN.2:24.

.
QUOTE
Is there such practice as spiritually married? Anyway, the two verse you shared doesnt really justify its okay to sexual sin right? How can I share this to her?

JOHN.3:5-8 (NKJV) = 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
.
.
.
JOHN.4:21-26 = 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
.
.
.
JOHN.14:25-26 = 25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
_______

You can share this to her by printing the replies on this page and giving it to her to read. Let her decide. If she is not persuaded to reconcile with you and maybe also give up her no-premarital-sex-rule, then you should just let go of her and move on.
....... Maybe take some time out to rest and wallow in your grief/sadness or see a doctor for temporary relief of your insomnia/depression.

.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 5 2019, 06:08 PM
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 5 2019, 05:50 PM)
.
You would not have committed the sexting-sin against your ex-gf if she had not insisted on the no-premarital sex rule or if both of you had gotten Spirit'ually married and consummated. So, the root blame may lie in incorrect Christian teaching that burdens God's young people - whereas, the Lord/God Jesus Christ said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. 4 to 5 years of no-sex for a committed young Christian legally-unmarried couple is too much of a burden to bear.

Or both of you should have pushed and gotten legally married 3 to 4 years ago = you would not have recently sinned.

Sex between a Spirit'ually married Christian couple is not a sin/evil-deed/law-breaking.

Did we have lawyers and legal marriage papers when Adam married Eve, Abraham married Sarah, Jacob married Rachel, etc.? = they were Spirit'ually married, and not legally married by a local authority.

Today, legal marriage papers is only a requirement by the local authorities for the purpose of inheritance, spousal benefits, legal recognition of offsprings for access to government facilities, etc. If you do not need these purposes of a legal marriage paper, then obeying God/Jesus/the-Spirit is more important than obeying Caesar/government(MATTHEW.22:21) wrt marriage and sex, as per 1COR.7 and GEN.2:24.

.

JOHN.3:5-8 (NKJV) = 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
.
.
.
JOHN.4:21-26 = 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
.
.
.
JOHN.14:25-26 = 25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
_______

You can share this to her by printing the replies on this page and giving it to her to read. Let her decide. If she is not persuaded to reconcile with you and maybe also give up her no-premarital-sex-rule, then you should just let go of her and move on.
....... Maybe take some time out to rest and wallow in your grief/sadness or see a doctor for temporary relief of your insomnia/depression.

.
*
But why would she agree to a spiritual marriage if its as important as legally married?
yaokb
post Nov 5 2019, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 06:23 PM)
But why would she agree to a spiritual marriage if its as important as legally married?
*
You ask good questions.

Please bear in mind not everyone who post here are necessarily sane or even really christian, so be wise in accepting advice and always double check with the Word of God.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 5 2019, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 06:23 PM)
But why would she agree to a spiritual marriage if its as important as legally married?
*
.
Spirit'ually married means you are married in front of God, who is Spirit = Omni-present, Omnipotent and Omniscient.

Legally married means you are married in front of a local authority official(= Caesar/government), who could only kill your body but not your soul. God can kill both your body and your soul in hell, eg if you unjustly divorce your wife after being Spirit'ually married to her - MATTHEW.10:28. In comparison, in a legal divorce, the government/Family-courts just force you to give half your assets and/or pay alimony to your ex-wife.

If both the bf and gf are faithful and God-fearing Christians, it is much better for them to be Spirit'ually married than legally married if the former is the only choice due to "unforeseen" circumstances.

Are you a faithful and God-fearing Christian or just a CINO(Christian In Name Only).? Some CINOs go to Church just to get a faithful Christian wife. Other CINOs sell stuffs or for social clubbing.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 5 2019, 10:00 PM
SUSifourtos
post Nov 5 2019, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 4 2019, 12:02 PM)
yeeck

Your apologism will be better received at the LYN Catholic thread, not on this Protestant thread.

So far, we have 3 Roman Catholics infesting this Protestant thread, ie 'Roman Catholic', yeeck and yaokb. How many Protestants have infested the Catholic thread.? 0, 1 or 2 or 4.?
....... False Christians are judged by their evil works or fruits of lawlessness, as per MATTHEW.7:15-23.
*
you definitely not sounds like jesus
but a replika of pharisee
you use bible to judge people, not urself.

be very careful
you will be judge very differently.

what jesus teach me?
love even ur enemy. not judge them

ur stance against catholic siblings
or believers, makes you looked like
you are the holy one.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 5 2019, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 04:55 PM)
Thank you so much bro. This makes so much sense to a Christian life.

This: The life of a Christians is not about feelings of how great your sin is but how great the work of our Lord is.
*
Praise God.

You're welcome.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 5 2019, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Nov 5 2019, 06:37 PM)
You ask good questions.

Please bear in mind not everyone who post here are necessarily sane or even really christian, so be wise in accepting advice and always double check with the Word of God.
*
user posted image


Roman Catholic
post Nov 5 2019, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 05:09 PM)
Is there such practice as spiritually married ?
*
I am afraid there is no such thing spiritual marriage in Christianity. For it runs against the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ directly.
Roman Catholic
post Nov 5 2019, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 05:05 PM)
....

I just asked if he could lead me in spiritual growth.

....
*
That is a very good start indeed, which is wise of you.

But be careful as you began on this beautiful journey of getting to know Almighty God, the evil one will always be there to demotivate you in one way or another.

At your age, I made wilful decision to understand everything in the Holy Bible. My only regret now, I should have done it much much earlier. Once you experience and witness the miracles done by our Lord, nothing else really matters. 😊

B = Basic
I = Instructions
B = Before
L = Leaving
E = Earth

God Bless.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 5 2019, 08:19 PM
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 5 2019, 07:55 PM)
That is a very good start indeed, which is wise of you.

But be careful as you began on this beautiful journey of getting to know Almighty God, the evil one will always be there to demotivate you in one way or another.

At your age, I made wilful decision to understand everything in the Holy Bible. My only regret now, I should have done it much much earlier. Once you experience and witness the miracles done by our Lord, nothing else really matters. 😊

B = Basic
I = Instructions
B = Before
L = Leaving
E = Earth

God Bless.
*
Yeah. He told me he is willing to mentor me and we meet once a month personally. I think I just need someone to be accountable to spiritually. Mistakes happen when I neglect my spiritual growth.

I'm also thinking to fast this period.

I also understand either to win my ex back or to move forward in my life, I need to mend my relationship with God, become a better follower of Christ and eventually a better man. Either way, it leads to the same path.

It's just the pain, regrets, shame and guilt are very hard to cope right now.
yaokb
post Nov 5 2019, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 09:16 PM)
Yeah. He told me he is willing to mentor me and we meet once a month personally. I think I just need someone to be accountable to spiritually. Mistakes happen when I neglect my spiritual growth.

I'm also thinking to fast this period.

I also understand either to win my ex back or to move forward in my life, I need to mend my relationship with God, become a better follower of Christ and eventually a better man. Either way, it leads to the same path.

It's just the pain, regrets, shame and guilt are very hard to cope right now.
*
What you are experiencing is normal.

We must remember to hold on to the promises of God.

While pain cannot be easily dismissed, regrets, shame and guilt have been fully dealt with by Jesus' sacrifice for you, therefore they have no rightful place in your heart or mind anymore.

whenever they come, quote God's promises to yourself.

for example

1 John 1:9

Eph 1:7

look them up and think about them.
don't just stop at the verse. read the whole chapter if possible

1 John is especially beautiful.
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Nov 5 2019, 09:30 PM)
What you are experiencing is normal.

We must remember to hold on to the promises of God.

While pain cannot be easily dismissed, regrets, shame and guilt have been fully dealt with by Jesus' sacrifice for you, therefore they have no rightful place in your heart or mind anymore.

whenever they come, quote God's promises to yourself.

for example

1 John 1:9

Eph 1:7

look them up and think about them.
don't just stop at the verse. read the whole chapter if possible

1 John is especially beautiful.
*
How do you actually commit to reading the bible? Do you read in a group or alone?

Bible reading is really something I struggle.
yaokb
post Nov 5 2019, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 09:49 PM)
How do you actually commit to reading the bible? Do you read in a group or alone?

Bible reading is really something I struggle.
*
Let me share a secret.

The Bible is a very interesting book.

Don't just read.

Think as you read.

Ask yourself questions as you go along.

some passages in the Bible are sombre.

some feels like they came out of a comedy sketch.

Luke is a particularly funny writer.

ok. lets take Luke chapter one.

stay with me ya. long passage.

Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.

(Introduction on whom the book was written to, some big shot during those times)

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (good people)

But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both well advanced in years.

(in other words, real oldies)

So it was, that while he was serving as priest before God in the order of his division, according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot fell to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. And the whole multitude of the people was praying outside at the hour of incense.

Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

And Zacharias said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.”

(in other words, dei, you blind ka? How in heaven are we going to have a kid at our age??)

And the angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings. But behold, you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words which will be fulfilled in their own time.”

(oops.... should have kept his big mouth shut earlier. now cant talk for 10 months)

And the people waited for Zacharias, and marveled that he lingered so long in the temple. But when he came out, he could not speak to them; and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple, for he beckoned to them and remained speechless. So it was, as soon as the days of his service were completed, that he departed to his own house.

Now after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived;
(quick question, how does one conceive a child? picture it in your mind and remember they are both oldies. brrrrr...)
and she hid herself five months, saying, “Thus the Lord has dealt with me, in the days when He looked on me, to take away my reproach among people.”


Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David.

The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!” But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus . He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

(good question!)

And the angel answered and said to her, “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.”

Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.”

(Woah!! what is she saying!!! those days if you were unmarried and pregnant you might get stoned!
Now do you get why she is called blessed?)


And the angel departed from her. Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.

And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.” And Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him From generation to generation. He has shown strength with His arm; He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He has put down the mighty from their thrones, And exalted the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things, And the rich He has sent away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy, As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.”

And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house.

Now Elizabeth’s full time came for her to be delivered, and she brought forth a son. When her neighbors and relatives heard how the Lord had shown great mercy to her, they rejoiced with her.

So it was, on the eighth day, that they came to circumcise the child; and they would have called him by the name of his father, Zacharias. ( Zack son of Zack smile.gif)
His mother answered and said, “No; he shall be called John.”

But they said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who is called by this name.” So they made signs to his father—what he would have him called.

(Duh!! He is dumb! not deaf!)


And he asked for a writing tablet, and wrote, saying, “His name is John.” So they all marveled. Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he spoke, praising God.

Then fear came on all who dwelt around them; and all these sayings were discussed throughout all the hill country of Judea. And all those who heard them kept them in their hearts, saying, “What kind of child will this be?” And the hand of the Lord was with him. Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, The oath which He swore to our father Abraham: To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life. “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace.” So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.
Luke 1:1‭-‬80 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.1.1-80.NKJV

you get the picture?

give it a try.


SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 5 2019, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 5 2019, 07:39 PM)
I am afraid there is no such thing spiritual marriage in Christianity. For it runs against the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ directly.
*
.
prelude23

Another incorrect Christian teaching is the Roman Catholic Church forbidding her priests to marry = we have many sex-starved Catholic priests pedophiling Catholic boys by taking advantage of them and the RCC has covered up this sexual sin/immorality for years. So, sexual immorality problems can sometimes be blamed on the Church and its incorrect teaching. .......

1TIMOTHY.4:1-5 = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 5 2019, 10:22 PM
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Nov 5 2019, 10:19 PM)
Let me share a secret.

The Bible is a very interesting book.

Don't just read.

Think as you read.

Ask yourself questions as you go along.

some passages in the Bible are sombre.

some feels like they came out of a comedy sketch.

Luke is a particularly funny writer.

ok. lets take Luke chapter one.

stay with me ya. long passage.

Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.

(Introduction on whom the book was written to, some big shot during those times)

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (good people)

But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both well advanced in years.

(in other words, real oldies)

So it was, that while he was serving as priest before God in the order of his division, according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot fell to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. And the whole multitude of the people was praying outside at the hour of incense.

Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him,  he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

And Zacharias said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.”

(in other words, dei, you blind ka? How in heaven are we going to have a kid at our age??)

And the angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings. But behold, you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words which will be fulfilled in their own time.”

(oops.... should have kept his big mouth shut earlier. now cant talk for 10 months)

And the people waited for Zacharias, and marveled that he lingered so long in the temple. But when he came out, he could not speak to them; and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple, for he beckoned to them and remained speechless. So it was, as soon as the days of his service were completed, that he departed to his own house.

Now after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived;
(quick question, how does one conceive a child? picture it in your mind and remember they are both oldies. brrrrr...)
and she hid herself five months, saying, “Thus the Lord has dealt with me, in the days when He looked on me, to take away my reproach among people.”
Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David.

The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one,  the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!” But when she saw him,  she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus . He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

(good question!)

And the angel answered and said to her, “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.”

Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.”

(Woah!! what is she saying!!! those days if you were unmarried and pregnant you might get stoned!
Now do you get why she is called blessed?)


And the angel departed from her. Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.

And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.” And Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him From generation to generation. He has shown strength with His arm; He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He has put down the mighty from their thrones, And exalted the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things, And the rich He has sent away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy, As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.”

And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house.

Now Elizabeth’s full time came for her to be delivered, and she brought forth a son. When her neighbors and relatives heard how the Lord had shown great mercy to her, they rejoiced with her.

So it was, on the eighth day, that they came to circumcise the child; and they would have called him by the name of his father, Zacharias. ( Zack son of Zack smile.gif)
His mother answered and said, “No; he shall be called John.”

But they said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who is called by this name.” So they made signs to his father—what he would have him called.

(Duh!! He is dumb! not deaf!)


And he asked for a writing tablet, and wrote, saying, “His name is John.” So they all marveled. Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he spoke, praising God.

Then fear came on all who dwelt around them; and all these sayings were discussed throughout all the hill country of Judea. And all those who heard them  kept them in their hearts, saying, “What kind of child will this be?” And the hand of the Lord was with him. Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: “Blessed  is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have  been  since the world began, That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, The oath which He swore to our father Abraham: To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life. “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace.” So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.
Luke 1:1‭-‬80 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.1.1-80.NKJV

you get the picture?

give it a try.
*
Oh wow thanks. You actually type the whole chapter out for me. I know I need to start reading it la just need to start.

Do you specifically memorize the verse or it comes naturally?


yaokb
post Nov 5 2019, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 10:53 PM)
Oh wow thanks. You actually type the whole chapter out for me. I know I need to start reading it la just need to start.

Do you specifically memorize the verse or it comes naturally?
*
I cut and paste from Youversion App.

memory verses are specifically memorised. but always read the whole passage so you don't misunderstand what it really means.

too many people quote verses out of context to suit their purposes and you must be careful not to do that.

As with all disciplines, start slow.
unless you are stirred up by the Holy Spirit and you just can't stop reading. wooooo. wonderful times.

be consistent.
one chapter a day and slowly increase.

then you won't feel discouraged by the seemingly many verses you have to read.

sooner or later you will catch the fire.

read what you are comfortable with.

Luke and John are good starters.

and prepared to be amazed by what you will discover Jesus has done for us.

God bless
prelude23
post Nov 5 2019, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Nov 5 2019, 11:08 PM)
I cut and paste from Youversion App.

memory verses are specifically memorised. but always read the whole passage so you don't misunderstand what it really means.

too many people quote verses out of context to suit their purposes and you must be careful not to do that.

As with all disciplines, start slow.
unless you are stirred up by the Holy Spirit and you just can't stop reading. wooooo. wonderful times.

be consistent.
one chapter a day and slowly increase.

then you won't feel discouraged by the seemingly many verses you have to read.

sooner or later you will catch the fire.

read what you are comfortable with.

Luke and John are good starters.

and prepared to be amazed by what you will discover Jesus has done for us.

God bless
*
Got it. Thanks for sharing.

Hope one day I can testify how scary the temptation to sin is. Especially sin of lust which I am struggling right now.
Roman Catholic
post Nov 6 2019, 05:37 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 5 2019, 11:26 PM)
Got it. Thanks for sharing.

Hope one day I can testify how scary the temptation to sin is. Especially sin of lust which I am struggling right now.
*
What you are actually struggling with right now, is repentance. Real repentance for our Lord Jesus Christ says "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is close at hand."

When you truly understand what real repentance really is, then it will not be that easy for the devil to tempt you any longer with sin.

Then you will be able to testify effectively, for with God everything is possible. 😊

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 6 2019, 05:50 AM
prelude23
post Nov 6 2019, 06:27 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 6 2019, 05:37 AM)
What you are actually struggling with right now, is repentance. Real repentance for our Lord Jesus Christ says "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is close at hand."

When you truly understand what real repentance really is, then it will not be that easy for the devil to tempt you any longer with sin.

Then you will be able to testify effectively, for with God everything is possible. 😊
*
I really hope to repent and to be stronger in faith.

Hate what I am feeling now as a consequences of sin. Lost of appetite, cant sleep, anxious for nothing, feeling depressed and worthless.

I know the ironic saying of you never know God is the best way until he's the only way.
SUSlurkingaround
post Nov 6 2019, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 6 2019, 06:27 AM)
I really hope to repent and to be stronger in faith.

Hate what I am feeling now as a consequences of sin. Lost of appetite, cant sleep, anxious for nothing, feeling depressed and worthless.

I know the ironic saying of you never know God is the best way until he's the only way.
*
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What you are feeling is likely the normal symptoms of a broken heart after 4 years of a lovely and heart-felt romance. If so, it will take time for your broken heart to heal. In effect, you are a very sick person in need of nursing care and "hospital" recuperation = ill in the heart and mind. So, act accordingly, eg reduce your outside activities.

Of course, the fast "cure" for a broken heart is reconciliation with the romance partner. But sometimes, that's not possible.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Nov 6 2019, 11:25 AM
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 5 2019, 10:20 PM)
.
prelude23

Another incorrect Christian teaching is the Roman Catholic Church forbidding her priests to marry = we have many sex-starved Catholic priests pedophiling Catholic boys by taking advantage of them and the RCC has covered up this sexual sin/immorality for years. So, sexual immorality problems can sometimes be blamed on the Church and its incorrect teaching. .......

1TIMOTHY.4:1-5 = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
.
*
False. They undertake the vow of chastity voluntarily.
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Nov 5 2019, 12:24 PM)

My personal opinion and solution is for such a young committed Christian couple to be Spirit'ually married in front of God, like how Adam was married to Eve, consummate the marriage but practice birth-control, until they can legally and/or financially marry later on = cannot divorce once spiritually married by God = a grave sin to divorce.

So, maybe you should stop feeling guilty about your sexual sin(= sexting) with your divorced lady friend and throw the Bible book of 1COR.7 and GEN.2:24 at your ex-gf. If this does not solve the problem with your ex-gf, then you will just have to move on.

Best of luck, have a good rest and good day.
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.
.
P S - I knew of a similar story between a young committed Christian couple in a US college. The gf insisted on no pre-marital sex. This was since they got together in high-school = 5 years. So the bf acquiesced.
....... Somehow, the gf ended up losing her virginity to a non-Christian male college mate. Most probably in a drunken college party. So, they broke up and the bf was never the same again afterwards = stayed gf-less, Churchless and single in his 30s was the last I heard of him. The ex-gf probably became Churchless as well, eg married an unbeliever.

Girls get drunk much faster than boys, for the same amount of alcohol consumed because their digestive systems do not efficiently excrete alcohol. Many young gullible girls do not know this, get pushed to drink at parties, became drunk and easily raped or gang-raped.
.
*
WTH!!!! doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
prophetjul
post Nov 6 2019, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 6 2019, 01:25 PM)
False. They undertake the vow of chastity voluntarily.
*
QUOTE
The Code of Canon Law reflects these three “significances” in Canon 277, which mandates clerical celibacy:  “Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven and therefore are obliged to observe celibacy, which is a special gift of God, by which sacred ministers can adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and can more freely dedicate themselves to the service of God and mankind.”


http://catholicstraightanswers.com/why-doe...ts-be-celibate/

Man made rules results in disasters.
desmond2020
post Nov 6 2019, 01:50 PM

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What on earth is spiritual marriage?
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 6 2019, 01:39 PM)
Man made rules results in disasters.
*
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-protesta...gy-sex_b_740853
prophetjul
post Nov 6 2019, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 6 2019, 02:10 PM)
So rebut your man made rules.
Which is directly against what Paul instructed.
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 6 2019, 01:39 PM)
Celibacy bears no causal relation to any type of deviant sexual addiction including pedophilia. In fact, married men are just as likely as celibate priests to sexually abuse children (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). In the general population, the majority of abusers are regressed heterosexual men who sexually abuse girls. Women are also found to be among those sexual abusers. While it's difficult to obtain accurate statistics on childhood sexual abuse, the characteristic patterns of repeat child sex offenders have been well described. The profiles of child molesters never include normal adults who become erotically attracted to children as a result of abstinence (Fred Berlin, "Compulsive Sexual Behaviors" in Addiction and Compulsive Behaviors [Boston: NCBC, 1998]; Patrick J. Carnes, "Sexual Compulsion: Challenge for Church Leaders" in Addiction and Compulsion; Dale O'Leary, "Homosexuality and Abuse").
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 6 2019, 02:12 PM)
So rebut your man made rules.
Which is directly against what Paul instructed.
*
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...20&p=93398140&#
prophetjul
post Nov 6 2019, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 6 2019, 02:13 PM)
Celibacy bears no causal relation to any type of deviant sexual addiction including pedophilia. In fact, married men are just as likely as celibate priests to sexually abuse children (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). In the general population, the majority of abusers are regressed heterosexual men who sexually abuse girls. Women are also found to be among those sexual abusers. While it's difficult to obtain accurate statistics on childhood sexual abuse, the characteristic patterns of repeat child sex offenders have been well described. The profiles of child molesters never include normal adults who become erotically attracted to children as a result of abstinence (Fred Berlin, "Compulsive Sexual Behaviors" in Addiction and Compulsive Behaviors [Boston: NCBC, 1998]; Patrick J. Carnes, "Sexual Compulsion: Challenge for Church Leaders" in Addiction and Compulsion; Dale O'Leary, "Homosexuality and Abuse").
*
Sexual abuse aside, is the priesthood celibacy a man made order? YES.

In direct disobedience to what Paul ordered

his is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
yeeck
post Nov 6 2019, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 6 2019, 02:19 PM)
Sexual abuse aside, is the priesthood celibacy a man made order?  YES. 

In direct disobedience to what Paul ordered

his is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

> St. Paul does not say that a Bishop must be the husband of a wife, but insists upon the expression "one wife." Had he meant that it was necessary to have a wife, he would have been violating the law himself. In the early Church, owing to the scarcity of single men eligible for the Priesthood, married men who wished to be ordained could be accepted provided they had not been married twice. Those presenting themselves must have been the husband of but one wife. That is all that the text means. Catholic Bishops and Priests do not violate that law. A law forbidding a man to have had more than one wife does not order him to have one; nor is it violated by a man who has never had a wife at all.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

> They can marry as long as they have not taken the vow of celibacy that they themselves voluntarily and willingly take. As simple as that.

*
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post Nov 7 2019, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 30 2019, 11:53 AM)
i like this.  thumbsup.gif

The RCC has managed to transfer many of their pagan and ungodly traditions into the Christian world, neglecting the instructions of God.
Through the millennium, lies have become Truths in the churches through the practices and  repetitive traditions, which the churches have taken for granted.

The biggest error was the anti Jewish bias of the church through out the ages, reinforced by Luther who was seen and still is a hero amongst reformists.

Without the Jewish foundations of understanding, pretty much anything goes.
*
Well said. smile.gif It's my hope there are still people out there with an open mind and a willingness to go against the grain of tradition.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 7 2019, 10:31 AM

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Understand Faith without works is dead in book of James

Read Entire chapter of James 1-3.

Morning Guys.

We all know that Salvation is made possible and available because of what God did. Not because of what we did. The Cross where Christ died and was resurrected made it happened. I want this to be established in your understanding of doctrine. The Lord imputes righteousness when we believe in Christ. Why? Because.................It is no small feat to believe in a God you cannot see with your natural eyes. Some of you may think it is easy to just believe, but wait till you face Harsh and Critical difficulty of life that will really test your faith, see if you think it's just that easy to continue to believe in God. I can testify it is not.

So do not think mental assent is to be ridiculed, it is of equally paramount importance. it has it's place.

YET what about Faith without works is dead scripture verse? Is it really talking about the much need works to merit and to satisfy the opinion of people or God to Salvation? That Salvation requires works as evidence? Because unless we can establish the right foundation of your Salvation, your faith will always be on shaky ground. I want you to have unshakable ground of faith so that no people or devil can disrupt your walk with God especially when you pray.

Today we will study this to understand and to correctly divide what is what.


Ephesians 2:8-10 says in the NIV: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I'm quoting the whole verse so that no one can misconstrue this verse. It is very very clear from verse 8 to 9, Salvation is a gift. If you can earn something by your effort, it is no longer call a gift but something that is obliged. The important key phrase here that disqualify any kind of inclination that works is required for salvation in the phrase "and this is not from yourselves". And even in verse 9, it is reinforced by the phrase not by works. Sometime I wonder if people can read that. There is nothing obscure in these 2 phrases. Very clear..not of ourselves (meaning nothing we can do in performance) not by works basically disqualify any kind of works. The word works in the Greek is "ergon which means; work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work. Do you see the meaning "action" there? It is the same word use in the book of James chapter 2. The very same word and meaning. With that being said....the works that is mentioned in book James cannot qualify you to heaven. To disagree with this is to throw out what Ephesians 2:8-9 just said. This must be firmly established.

What about verse 10 on God's handiwork, that we are created to do good works? Shouldn't this testify to Faith without works is dead also?

Before I get to that; understand this correctly. God paid a dear price..a very dear price which no one can put value to it. The value of the blood of Christ is extremely too high. The effort of your works do not even come close. To think that it matches or need in justification to Salvation together with Christ is to put your works value on the same level with what Jesus did at the cross. That to me is vanity self righteousness which stink and God calls it Filthy Rags. (Isaiah 64:6) Either Salvation is a gift or it is not, there is no 2 way about it.

So what about the verse on God's handiwork and Faith without works is dead? Aren't they mutually exclusive? Aren't they 2 side of the same coin?

Answer is: Yes they are. Then how do you separate justification to Salvation? There is a difference.

1st of all understand the meaning God's handiwork....who is doing the handiwork? You or God? God's handiwork means God is the one who is doing the work in you. Without God, you can try and do all the work you want yourself, anything that is not born of God has no eternal value. It is as good as decay and death, they are fallen like this current world. So the question to ask is; can you demand from God to have works? Can you pay to God for works? Think about it. How do you get it? Is it by Grace? I hope you are beginning to see the picture and the blinding scales are starting to fall off! Answer is Yes. When it comes to God, there is no way you will be able to merit or earn for anything, God would not have, it is by his love and free grace, God is a good God.

Being God's handiwork to do good works.......the power "originate" in Christ. Where do I get this?

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Nothing can be further from this truth. If you are still not convinced then 1 more verse;

John 15:5 (NIV) - "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

What about Faith without works is dead? If you have read the entire chapter of James 1-3, no where do you find any phrases that tells you those works are required for Salvation. None of it. What about James 2:14 (NIV) - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

You may say...see? The word Save is there. Dear friends...the word save there is the word "sózó" in the Greek which means; I save, heal, preserve, rescue. It the same word used when God delivers his people from predicaments. Then look at the examples given in the book of James. They all talk about providing assistance to the people in need, provide cloths, food, ... nothing talks about Salvation.

Then what about Abraham sacrificing Issac or Rahab, helping the spies? What has those got to do with Salvation? If you think about, killing or lying for that matter are nothing virtuous but sin. They are not something to look up to. So what is the point the book of James is trying to make then?

Well, it is simply this. When you believe in God, Act like it. <---That is the Gist or essence of what James is trying to say. For example when you pray believing for a deliverance or answer, act like it. Or that when you wish someone well, don't just say it, provide if you can. Don't profess your faith in one instance then act contradictory in the next instance.

One last question. What about people who profess mental assent faith but don't want to repent or change or work? My answer is this: I'm not here to judge you but to just affirm that there is a nature built into your flesh that is Anti-God.

Romans 8:7 tells us; The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

For you to be set free, come to Christ and just pray, submit and acknowledge you have this weakness and you cannot obey. Use the mental assent that you have as the door for God to come in and work in you. Hold tenaciously to it believing. In time it will happen BECAUSE God is faithful, what He promise, He will do!

God Bless.








yeeck
post Nov 7 2019, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 7 2019, 10:31 AM)
Understand Faith without works is dead in book of James

Read Entire chapter of James 1-3.

Morning Guys.

We all know that Salvation is made possible and available because of what God did. Not because of what we did. The Cross where Christ died and was resurrected made it happened. I want this to be established in your understanding of doctrine. The Lord imputes righteousness when we believe in Christ. Why? Because.................It is no small feat to believe in a God you cannot see with your natural eyes. Some of you may think it is easy to just believe, but wait till you face Harsh and Critical difficulty of life that will really test your faith, see if you think it's just that easy to continue to believe in God. I can testify it is not.

So do not think mental assent is to be ridiculed, it is of equally paramount importance. it has it's place.

YET what about Faith without works is dead scripture verse? Is it really talking about the much need works to merit and to satisfy the opinion of people or God to Salvation? That Salvation requires works as evidence? Because unless we can establish the right foundation of your Salvation, your faith will always be on shaky ground. I want you to have unshakable ground of faith so that no people or devil can disrupt your walk with God especially when you pray.

Today we will study this to understand and to correctly divide what is what.
Ephesians 2:8-10 says in the NIV:  8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I'm quoting the whole verse so that no one can misconstrue this verse. It is very very clear from verse 8 to 9, Salvation is a gift. If you can earn something by your effort, it is no longer call a gift but something that is obliged. The important key phrase here that disqualify any kind of inclination that works is required for salvation in the phrase "and this is not from yourselves". And even in verse 9, it is reinforced by the phrase not by works. Sometime I wonder if people can read that. There is nothing obscure in these 2 phrases. Very clear..not of ourselves (meaning nothing we can do in performance) not by works basically disqualify any kind of works. The word works in the Greek is "ergon which means; work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work. Do you see the meaning "action" there? It is the same word use in the book of James chapter 2. The very same word and meaning. With that being said....the works that is mentioned in book James cannot qualify you to heaven. To disagree with this is to throw out what Ephesians 2:8-9 just said. This must be firmly established.

What about verse 10 on God's handiwork, that we are created to do good works? Shouldn't this testify to Faith without works is dead also?

Before I get to that; understand this correctly. God paid a dear price..a very dear price which no one can put value to it. The value of the blood of Christ is extremely too high. The effort of your works do not even come close. To think that it matches or need in justification to Salvation together with Christ is to put your works value on the same level with what Jesus did at the cross. That to me is vanity self righteousness which stink and God calls it Filthy Rags. (Isaiah 64:6) Either Salvation is a gift or it is not, there is no 2 way about it.

So what about the verse on God's handiwork and Faith without works is dead? Aren't they mutually exclusive? Aren't they 2 side of the same coin?

Answer is: Yes they are. Then how do you separate justification to Salvation? There is a difference.

1st of all understand the meaning God's handiwork....who is doing the handiwork? You or God? God's handiwork means God is the one who is doing the work in you. Without God, you can try and do all the work you want yourself, anything that is not born of God has no eternal value. It is as good as decay and death, they are fallen like this current world. So the question to ask is; can you demand from God to have works? Can you pay to God for works? Think about it. How do you get it? Is it by Grace? I hope you are beginning to see the picture and the blinding scales are starting to fall off! Answer is Yes. When it comes to God, there is no way you will be able to merit or earn for anything, God would not have, it is by his love and free grace, God is a good God.

Being God's handiwork to do good works.......the power "originate" in Christ. Where do I get this?

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Nothing can be further from this truth. If you are still not convinced then 1 more verse;

John 15:5 (NIV) - "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

What about Faith without works is dead? If you have read the entire chapter of James 1-3, no where do you find any phrases that tells you those works are required for Salvation. None of it. What about James 2:14 (NIV) - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

You may say...see? The word Save is there. Dear friends...the word save there is the word "sózó" in the Greek which means; I save, heal, preserve, rescue. It the same word used when God delivers his people from predicaments. Then look at the examples given in the book of James. They all talk about providing assistance to the people in need, provide cloths, food, ... nothing talks about Salvation.

Then what about Abraham sacrificing Issac or Rahab, helping the spies? What has those got to do with Salvation? If you think about, killing or lying for that matter are nothing virtuous but sin. They are not something to look up to. So what is the point the book of James is trying to make then?

Well, it is simply this. When you believe in God, Act like it. <---That is the Gist or essence of what James is trying to say. For example when you pray believing for a deliverance or answer, act like it. Or that when you wish someone well, don't just say it, provide if you can. Don't profess your faith in one instance then act contradictory in the next instance.

One last question. What about people who profess mental assent faith but don't want to repent or change or work? My answer is this: I'm not here to judge you but to just affirm that there is a nature built into your flesh that is Anti-God.

Romans 8:7 tells us; The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

For you to be set free, come to Christ and just pray, submit and acknowledge you have this weakness and you cannot obey. Use the mental assent that you have as the door for God to come in and work in you. Hold tenaciously to it believing. In time it will happen BECAUSE God is faithful, what He promise, He will do!

God Bless.

*
Actually what you wrote is similar to the Catholic teaching of a soul doing good works in the state of sanctifying grace. If a soul is in a state of sin, no amount of works however good it may look in the eyes of the world is worthy before God. However, God can and does provide actual grace out of his own goodness even for such actions, those actual graces are not saving grace, but they are aids He sends people to dispose them towards repentance/penance and back to sanctifying grace. This is why people in mortal sin, even though, they cannot atone for their sins through good works, must continue to pray and perform good works because this disposes the soul to receiving God’s help as He tries to guide you back to Him.

Let me use the analogy of a doctor, since some anti-Catholics here like to use the doctors as an example tongue.gif

=> A sick person cannot be healed if he refuse to take the medicine and exercises prescribed by the doctor. He can't just wait on the bed and say "Doctor, please heal me, but I don't want to take your medicine!"
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 7 2019, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 7 2019, 11:02 AM)
Actually what you wrote is similar to the Catholic teaching of a soul doing good works in the state of sanctifying grace. If a soul is in a state of sin, no amount of works however good it may look in the eyes of the world is worthy before God. However, God can and does provide actual grace out of his own goodness even for such actions, those actual graces are not saving grace, but they are aids He sends people to dispose them towards repentance/penance and back to sanctifying grace. This is why people in mortal sin, even though, they cannot atone for their sins through good works, must continue to pray and perform good works because this disposes the soul to receiving God’s help as He tries to guide you back to Him.

Let me use the analogy of a doctor, since some anti-Catholics here like to use the doctors as an example tongue.gif

=> A sick person cannot be healed if he refuse to take the medicine and exercises prescribed by the doctor. He can't just wait on the bed and say "Doctor, please heal me, but I don't want to take your medicine!"
*
The people back in Jesus days, the prostitute, tax collectors, etc were still in their state of sin...yet all could receive healing, deliverance, grace, etc from Jesus Christ. ALL of them.

No qualification, nothing to tell they were pious in their prayers or good works.

Whereas the teachers of the law, the one who are supposedly praying a lot, meticulous in their works to the law... could not.

Something to digest and ponder.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 7 2019, 02:35 PM
yeeck
post Nov 7 2019, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 7 2019, 02:31 PM)
The people back in Jesus days, the prostitute, tax collectors, etc were still in their state of sin...yet all could receive healing, deliverance, grace, etc from Jesus Christ. ALL of them.

No qualification, nothing to tell they were pious in their prayers or good works.

Whereas the teachers of the law, the one who are supposedly praying a lot, meticulous in their works to the law... could not.

Something to digest and ponder.
*
Nothing to disagree here. The people back in Jesus' days that received healing, deliverance, grace, asked Jesus to heal them, regardless of their state of sin. After deliverance and forgiving their sins, what did He say? "Go and sin no more".
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post Nov 7 2019, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 7 2019, 03:01 PM)
Nothing to disagree here. The people back in Jesus' days that received healing, deliverance, grace, asked Jesus to heal them, regardless of their state of sin. After deliverance and forgiving their sins, what did He say? "Go and sin no more".
*
Well the point is, they all could receive from God "while" in their state of sin.

That is something the church today need to teach.

Are we teaching people to continue to sin that Grace may abound? No.

I'm just saying believers who don't have it altogether, Christians who may fall here and there are still close with God.

I think there was some kind of teaching in the past when a Christian fall from grace or have sin, God has hidden his face and does not answer. Or that they must repent first before God is please to answer or as you have said they must pray and do good works to obtain favor from God.

That would have been true prior to the coming of Christ under the Old Testament Covenant. But not today. These people during Christ time all receive before they repented, BEFORE they were even close to God. Prostitutes are not religious people mind you. It was true back then, it is still true today. How is this possible? Because this is the Age of the Gospel of the Grace of God. (I'm adamant that people in here still do not understand what God's Grace is really about)


Acts 20:24 (KJV) - But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

Grace of God or Unmerited Favour/Goodness of God = The Gospel! tongue.gif


PS: for those who don't know. Gospel means Good News.
PS2: Am I glorifying the state of sin? No. I'm opening a flood gate of opportunity for sinners to come home back to Father God. A Wonderful Good God.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 7 2019, 03:36 PM
yeeck
post Nov 7 2019, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 7 2019, 03:23 PM)
Well the point is, they all could receive from God "while" in their state of sin.

That is something the church today need to teach.

Are we teaching people to continue to sin that Grace may abound? No.

I'm just saying believers who don't have it altogether, Christians who may fall here and there are still close with God.

I think there was some kind of teaching in the past when a Christian fall from grace or have sin, God has hidden his face and does not answer. Or that they must repent first before God is please to answer or as you have said they must pray and do good works to obtain favor from God.

*
Well the point is, they all could receive from God "while" in their state of sin. => That's why for Catholics (and Eastern Christians), there are the sacraments of confession & baptism. Both we call the sacraments of the "dead", meaning it can be received by those whose souls are not in the state of grace.

OK, here's where we disagree. You say Christian who may fall here and there are still close with God. Disagree! Sin is offensive to God. There are different degrees of sin of course as per I John 5:16-18. If we sin mortally, we are cut off from the Body of Christ and are no longer in union with God.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Nov 7 2019, 04:00 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 8 2019, 09:32 AM

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Your Righteousness is in Heaven, you cannot lose it

Jeremiah 23:6 (KJV) - In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Morning Guys,

In the Old Testament, when a sinner goes to a High Priest for sin atonement, did you know, the High Priest does not examine the sinner? It's obvious he is defiled or have sin, what is the point of examining that? So....what or who does the High Priest examine? Well, he examine the sin sacrifice animal whether it has blemishes. The animal sacrifice needs to be free from blemishes or defect in order to be accepted by God.

The Bible tells us, What happened in the Old Testament, the way people atone for the sins is a shadow copy of the reality in Heaven. (Hebrews 8:5). Meaning to say, how the way sin was atoned for, today the basic principle is the same but only better. What do I mean on the shadow copy?

Today, when a sinner comes to God, (Likewise) God does not examine the sinner but examine the lamb for atonement and likewise the lamb MUST be free from blemish. Who is the Lamb that was sacrifice for our sins today? His wonderful name is Jesus Christ.

That is precisely why the sacrifice is "WELL" accepted. If God were to examine you, NO WAY. Before the day is even over, you will never accepted and sin will never be atoned for.

With that being said, we need to understand there is nothing in us whether by deed or words that can ever be accepted by God as justification to righteousness or holiness. I need you to understand this because today's devotion is about righteousness.

Jeremiah 23:6, it says there The Name that God will be known for is The Lord our righteousness. We need to understand this righteousness is not based on our words or deeds....it can never. It is based on God's Righteousness. And Yet God credit his righteousness to us.

In Matthew 6, the word tells us to Seek First the Kingdom of God and...????? Your Righteousness? No...HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. There is an erroneous teaching that teaches seeking Jesus Righteousness means we do right in our character and deed. The erroneous teaching even went to the Armour of God on the breastplate of righteousness. No, that is not what it means.

Seeking His (Christ) righteousness means, you seek to established that God has made you righteous by Faith and that righteousness is a gift to you from God, not from your deed or words. You need to cast out every inclination to think your character behavior is the link to this righteousness. It will never be and can never be..ALL Good things given comes from God.

When you begin to understand that Jesus Christ IS our righteousness. You can never lose it as long as you still have Christ as your Savior and God. Why? Because God always examine the sacrifice lamb without blemish! Always REMEMBER that. Burn that Solid Truth into your heart, mind and soul so that you cannot be easily shaken. Be ready, after reading this, the devil will try everything to confuse you on this, there will be people whom the devil will use to make you forget this.

Still not convinced?

I give you scripture verse;

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NIV) - It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Do you see it? Christ Jesus = our righteousness, holiness and redemption. These 3 matters....Righteousness, Holiness and redemption is Christ's and when you have Christ, you are given automatically all these FREELY by Grace. You cannot earn or merit this by your words or deeds.

Dear Friends....be at rest to know your Right Standing is seated at the Father's Right Hand today in Heaven. Because Jesus is the solid foundation of righteousness, by Faith believe what God has given you is sure and secured!

God Bless.

prelude23
post Nov 9 2019, 08:56 AM

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Why most of the times I feel distanced from God? We keep praying to be obedience and all but really, how do I know what God wants me to do?
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post Nov 9 2019, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 9 2019, 08:56 AM)
Why most of the times I feel distanced from God? We keep praying to be obedience and all but really, how do I know what God wants me to do?
*
Could be 2 things.

1. Your wrong idea about God, maybe you think God is out to get you, trying to condemn you by your wrongs.
2. attack of your spiritual enemy, they're always 24/7 trying to distance you from God, planting thoughts like No. 1
prelude23
post Nov 9 2019, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 9 2019, 09:22 AM)
Could be 2 things.

1. Your wrong idea about God, maybe you think God is out to get you, trying to condemn you by your wrongs.
2. attack of your spiritual enemy, they're always 24/7 trying to distance you from God, planting thoughts like No. 1
*
Nope. I dont have any thoughts like that. I know God loves me and He's a forgiving God. But its just when I pray, I dont seem to hear what He wants to tell me. We pray to understand God will but how?
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post Nov 9 2019, 10:37 AM

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How do you do accounting of yourself?

Romans 6:11 (NIV) - In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Morning Guys.

Today we're going to continue in the series why God doesn't look to you to judge but to the lamb sacrifice as how I've explained in the previous devotion.
Today's scripture verse is as above and the word "count" in the Greek is the word " logizomai" which means: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

It is an accounting word, like how accountants do financial accounting. To charge one self or to consider one self, it is strong emphasize. Why? Because this will firmly establish you, deeply rooted to know how God got you covered.

Many people interpret the verse above as being dead in terms of behavior. However that is not what it says. The beginning of this verse says "In the same way". Meaning if you look to verse 10, the verse before 11, it says; The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God.

So it bears to scripture reasoning, the phrase "In the same way" must be accounted to what verse 10 is saying. How and why did Christ died to sin? Did Christ died to sin because of "behavior"? The Bible says Jesus did no sin, He know no sin and in Him there is no sin. Are you beginning to see this revelation?

If verse 11 is not talking about being dead to sin in terms of behavior because Jesus didn't die that way, then we need to understand how did Jesus die to sin. Jesus died to the imputation of sin judgement and this death He died, He died bearing on all of us.

In simple layman term, count yourselves dead to the judgement and imputation of sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus! Don't condemn yourself anymore but begin to see and understand and accept Christ punishment to sin is final and no more. Account yourself DEAD to the imputation of sin, sin is no more imputed to you.

But what if I sin again or fall again in the near future? That is why I've shared with you in previous devotion, when you bring yourself before God, is God going to look at you or Christ for justification and judgement? If it's you, NO WAY, you're ever going to pass the High Requirement of God's holiness. NO way, as I've said, before the hour is done, you don't even come close. In the OT, the High Priest does not examine the sinner for blemish but the sacrificial animal for blemish. Always remember that.

Still not convinced? 1 More scripture verse.

Colossians 3:3 (NIV) - For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

There is absolutely nothing obscure on this verse, it says there we died. The context here means that God no longer looks at us. Problem with many of us, we tend resurrect our own self to be justified, disobeying Colossians 3:3.

What about behavior of dead to sin? Well you MUST and it's critical importance to first establish the death of imputation to sin FIRST before handling on the subject of death to sinful behavior. Many of us try to do this without taking account of Colossians 3:3 and the scripture verse of today as above. That is why and this is where we have missed it.

Once again dear friend, your old you is no more but dead. So will you still consider yourself alive or dead to the imputation of sin? This will either spearhead your walk with God to greater heights or if you reject this, you will always remain on shaky ground.

May the Lord bless you with wisdom and revelation on this, God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 9 2019, 10:43 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 9 2019, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 9 2019, 10:35 AM)
Nope. I dont have any thoughts like that. I know God loves me and He's a forgiving God. But its just when I pray, I dont seem to hear what He wants to tell me. We pray to understand God will but how?
*
Oh ok cool.....

To hear from God, one of the thing we can learn to do is to be at peace.

To be at peace with God. We can know that God will forgive but have you forgiven yourself? You need to be convinced that you cannot carry the guilt burden...whatever it maybe, you got to give to Christ.

We hear God the loudest when we are at peace with God, with ourselves, with others.

Maybe you want to try to meditate on this verse:


John 14:1 (NIV) - Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 9 2019, 12:09 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 9 2019, 12:05 PM

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prelude23 updated on my response above.
prelude23
post Nov 9 2019, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 9 2019, 10:48 AM)
Oh ok cool.....

To hear from God, one of the thing we can learn to do is to be at peace.

To be at peace with God. We can know that God will forgive but have you forgiven yourself? You need to be convinced that you cannot carry the guilt burden...whatever it maybe, you got to give to Christ.

We hear God the loudest when we are at peace with God, with ourselves, with others.

Maybe you want to try to meditate on this verse:
John 14:1 (NIV) - Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
*
Thank you. I understand have to be peace with this but sometimes, its really hard. I hope there's a formula for me to follow but its just hard. Its just difficult at this moment.
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post Nov 10 2019, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(prelude23 @ Nov 9 2019, 10:35 AM)
Nope. I dont have any thoughts like that. I know God loves me and He's a forgiving God. But its just when I pray, I dont seem to hear what He wants to tell me. We pray to understand God will but how?
*
Studying the Scriptures is the only way to understand God's will especially the Gospel. It is not as hard as you have made it out to be but you would have to give yourself time in getting to know our Lord. Patience.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Nov 10 2019, 01:21 PM
prelude23
post Nov 10 2019, 04:31 PM

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Today's sermon was taken from Psalm 51. It personally touched me deeply for the situation that I am in right now.

Psalm 51 was a prayer by David, a man who is after God's heart, but fell in the temptation of lust. He then tried to cover his track by murder and hardened his heart from God. I think we all know this story.

David, a true worshipper, also fell to sinful ways what more to say me. It also shows God's grace in forgiving those who sin against him provided we are willing to repent and seek Him again. This really offers a lot of comfort to me but often times, it is we ourselves who can forgive ourselves. Hopefully one day I will find the strength to make peace with the wrongs I did.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 14 2019, 11:58 AM

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Salvation is a person, it's not a thing

Hebrews 5:9 (NIV) - and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Good day dear friends.

We use to think when God gives us Salvation it is a "something". No Friends..Salvation is not a thing, it is not a subject, it is a person. On a site note, do you also know that Grace is not a subject but the person of Christ? Well that is another devotion which I've shared in the past.

Hebrews 5:9 tells us in the NIV translation Jesus become the "source" of eternal salvation. in the Greek it is the word "aitios " which means in the context of this verse..the cause, author.

This tells us Jesus IS Salvation itself. That is why it is so important for us to understand what is the revelation here?

Jesus says,

John 6:37 (NIV) - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

This verse does not say those who come to Him have been living righteous or have flaws. it just say those who comes to Christ. Many of us come to God when we are ok and when we have fallen. God is all encompassing, He does not drive you away when you have failed.

So if you come to God in your flaws and God promise to never drive you away, what does that tell you? I'm here to tell you dear friend even when you have fallen in Sin, you are still close to God. John 6:37 assures us, it is God's own promise after all.

But what about Scripture verse that tells us in the OT, God has hidden his face from those have sin? Well if you understand timeline, those in the OT are people prior to Christ hence it stands to scripture reasoning they are people who do not have the dispensation of grace as we do today. And the phrase here " All those the father give me..." is not referring to predestination. It just referring to people who come to accepted Christ as their Savior and Lord. So don't feel intimidated by this verse.

Still not convinced? 1 more verse. Well..3 to be exact

2 Corinthians 5:18-20

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.

If God is not counting the world's sin against them what more for those of us who have receive Him but have failures and weaknesses?

Is God contradicting himself? Why in the OT, God can say He has hidden his face but in the NT, He is not counting Man's trespasses which is just another word for sin. No He is not. Why?

Because Salvation is the person of Christ, There is the cross where He died and rose again conquering death and sin. There is a righteous outlet for God to be graceful and merciful to you, This has been made available to you today.

I don't know where you are in your journey of life but it is still not too late for Salvation. I pray that you will return to God as you are.

God Bless







TSunknown warrior
post Nov 18 2019, 02:53 PM

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Knowing God

John 10:14 (NIV) - I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me

Hallo everybody. Good day to you. Today we are going to understand more or less on what God say "Not everyone who calls me Lord Lord" Though it's not the main devotion title but it has everything to do with knowing God. We don't want God to say to us " I don't know you" right? Because in God rejecting the person, He says, I don't know you or I don't know where you are from. Either way God is saying He didn't know the person.

Now it's important to note, doesn't mean God doesn't know anything about the person. He is omniscience after all, God knows everything, nothing is hidden from Him, else He cannot judge. So basically when God says 'I don't know you" what he means is that; the person rejected God, having no relationship. If a believer has been in a relationship with God before but has backslide, can God ever say God didn't know the person? It would have been true for God to say I knew you but you have slipped rather than I do not know you, which would not be true.. right? Something for you to ponder.

We need to understand God does not lie and always say something that is true. In Fact all his words are truth.

Notice that relationship with God is a 2 way channel? In today's main text, Jesus says in John 10:14...I know my sheep and my sheep know me. God knows you. And you know God. 2 way. What this means is that God wants participation and not Him alone in this relationship. We don't do this in order to be saved. We do this because we are saved. That is the fundamental doctrine of the new covenant.

Question to ask is, how do you know God? Make no mistake, God already knew everything about us, this is not about God discovering us but for us to know Him.

for us, it takes time to know God, just like it takes time to know a person....to know what the person is like. And God is not a mystery to know what He is like. What He likes and don't has already been recorded in the Bible. To really know God, get to know what he says, particularly understand everything under the light of the New Covenant.

Jesus says in Luke 6:46; "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? I think it's imperative to understand God knows what He is doing. God knows what He is saying. It would be vanity to think that we don't need to listen to everything God says because there are some things we know better than God. That is not only vanity but also really naive IMO.

2 Timothy 2:19 Tell us; Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

As Christians we need to agree with God sin is wrong. Sin is just destructive and wicked. Have this one important understanding as Christians. Your end objective Home is Heaven. If you're not used to living God's way now, how are you going to get use to it when you passed on from this life? you will feel out of place. There are no wickedness in Heaven. It is a place of pure peace, pure goodness, pure righteousness, a place so pure, there are no hospitals, no law firms, no funeral companies, No politics...you get the idea.

So how do you get to know God? Well, the answer is; the best way and the fastest way to know God is to do what He says. Just obey his word. The more you are active pursuing God, the faster you will know Him. Now there is a disclaimer to make here. There will always be a mystery part of God that we will never understand completely, which is the grandeur of his sovereign plan and of Himself being God. It is not important.

What is important is doing what God ask of us. When God says in Luke 6 for example:

Luke 6:37 - Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

The faster we do this, the faster we get to know God. Is there anyone you are holding unforgiveness towards? Is there anyone you are still condemning? Perhaps it's time to let go and forgive. When we are cleared of all heavy burdens, you will clearly see and know God.

I pray today's devotion will speak to you. God Bless



TSunknown warrior
post Nov 21 2019, 01:54 PM

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Proverbs 21:30-31

30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan

that can succeed against the Lord.

31 The horse is made ready for the day of battle,

but victory rests with the Lord.

TSunknown warrior
post Nov 25 2019, 04:45 PM

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God does not hate you

Romans 8:38-39 (NIV) - For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Good day fellow believers....This devotion is for the believers.

In the garden of Eden, the devil deceived Adam and Eve by lying. What was the lie? well if you study book of Genesis. 1st thing Satan did, was to make both of them doubt God. God told Adam and Eve, "“You may eat freely from every tree of the garden". The devil tried to contradict that by saying “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat of any tree in the garden?” Satan was trying to get them to eat that 1 forbidden tree by the deception of doubt...Did God really say it?


God even told them if they eat from the forbidden tree they will die, Satan lied by saying they will not die. On both account, Satan used "doubt". God said they will die, Satan said No they will not die.

Today it is the same.

The devil will not think twice in using shame, condemnation, guilt to cause believers to doubt God. The devil has successfully convince believers when they sin, God hates the believer.

Have you ever have such thoughts? That God is far away, disgusted at your sin, therefore, you are separated from God. Again I'm talking about believers.

Now what does the word of God in the book of Romans 8 says as in the main text?

Do you notice the word "demons" there in verse 38? What is the revelation here? Well demons will plant contradicting thoughts into your head to convince you that God hates you.

But I'm here to share this truth with you. God does not hate you. Romans 8:38-39 tells us that, God loves you still...even what demons do to you to cause you to sin..God still loves you, it's not going to separate you from God's Love.

Meditate on this. Let it sink into your heart and spirit, I pray for the Holy Spirit to illuminate this truth unto you.

God Bless.






TSunknown warrior
post Nov 26 2019, 09:55 AM

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I press on

Philippians 3:12 (NIV) - Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.


Good Day to you, today's devotion are for believers.

Stubborn faith. Be determined to outlast your opposition. Does not mean you fight dirty or use devious ways to win but you continue to do good to your enemies. As Christians we need to press on everyday, forgetting what is bad behind. There is no other way. if you believe God's words to be the truth then we need to do what it says.

People will tell you...you can forgive but do not forget. God words says in Philippians 3:13....Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, If God tells me to forget, I will forget what is behind. It may be hard for some of you but God's truth will always be greater than what we think is right.

Continue to love others, continue to show Christ like nature to others who are evil. Situations that are not favorable to you, afflictions that are depressing towards you, even if your future doesn't seem good...You press on with stubborn faith, doing good to all.

Moses, Joseph, king David to name to few all had their bad opposition and it wasn't easy. It wasn't just days but months, years...many years that would have cause normal people to give up. But you're not normal people.

You are all children of God and that means you have God on your side, that my friends makes all the difference!

God Bless




SUSJingjing94 P
post Nov 26 2019, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 7 2019, 03:56 PM)
Well the point is, they all could receive from God "while" in their state of sin. => That's why for Catholics (and Eastern Christians), there are the sacraments of confession & baptism. Both we call the sacraments of the "dead", meaning it can be received by those whose souls are not in the state of grace.

OK, here's where we disagree. You say Christian who may fall here and there are still close with God. Disagree! Sin is offensive to God. There are different degrees of sin of course as per I John 5:16-18. If we sin mortally, we are cut off from the Body of Christ and are no longer in union with God.
*
Which chrsitan can't sin?
pubgblackpink
post Nov 26 2019, 09:28 PM

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Hi all..dont know where to start..i've been attending church for 2 months plus now, lost my wife few years back to cancer. Now I just want to start my life again. Thanks to God almighty I can feel joy again. Its been hard for me.
yeeck
post Nov 27 2019, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(Jingjing94 @ Nov 26 2019, 04:29 PM)
Which chrsitan can't sin?
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Did I imply that?
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 27 2019, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(pubgblackpink @ Nov 26 2019, 09:28 PM)
Hi all..dont know where to start..i've been attending church for 2 months plus now, lost my wife few years back to cancer. Now I just want to start my life again. Thanks to God almighty I can feel joy again. Its been hard for me.
*
keep going...don't stop
SUSJingjing94 P
post Nov 27 2019, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Nov 27 2019, 10:08 AM)
Did I imply that?
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Then what are you disagree on earlier?
yeeck
post Nov 27 2019, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(Jingjing94 @ Nov 27 2019, 01:12 PM)
Then what are you disagree on earlier?
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Not going to repeat. The onus is on you to read up the thread.
pubgblackpink
post Nov 28 2019, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Nov 27 2019, 10:11 AM)
keep going...don't stop
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Ok tq bro. Now I'm finding decent Christian girls too..lol
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 28 2019, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(pubgblackpink @ Nov 28 2019, 09:57 AM)
Ok tq bro. Now I'm finding decent Christian girls too..lol
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All the best bro...keep your walk with God close at heart.
konholio
post Dec 3 2019, 10:41 AM

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Anyone done with the church but not with their faith here?
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 4 2019, 10:19 AM

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I always tell people, when you go to church, you're there to meet with God.

Don't look to people, not any church leaders or pastors because they are people like you with flaws. Some of them may inspire, some may disappoint.

What's important is that you recognize and understand, going to church is all about God, never people.





pubgblackpink
post Dec 4 2019, 03:37 PM

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Yeah exactly true. You will meet all kind of ppl in church. For me personally, I just go to church to have fellowship with God and maybe converse with others.


konholio
post Dec 4 2019, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 4 2019, 10:19 AM)
I always tell people, when you go to church, you're there to meet with God.

Don't look to people, not any church leaders or pastors because they are people like you with flaws. Some of them may inspire, some may disappoint.

What's important is that you recognize and understand, going to church is all about God, never people.
*
We can only meet God in church?
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 5 2019, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(konholio @ Dec 4 2019, 09:15 PM)
We can only meet God in church?
*
I didn't say that. What I said was, when one goes to church, the primary reason is all about meeting with God. With that proper focus, you will soon begin to understand why people go to church.

Everyone has their lot of problems in life. You can meet God anywhere but there is a difference in meeting God corporately as a body (Church).

Besides, Church was God's idea. Christ himself said "I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail". This tells you that Church is not man's idea or origin. If Church is God's idea then it stand to reason that we should attend church.

I don't know what is your disappointment with the Church but you have to rise up and be better, don't allow whatever that has disappointed you get the better of you.


*I'm speaking from experience. You're not the only one who has disappointment against church.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 5 2019, 09:20 AM
tomatotomatomy
post Dec 5 2019, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE
Since you are a Christian, fyi, the Bible considers seminal discharge, menstrual discharge and period, pregnancy and child-birth as unclean = evil/satanic.?; and unconverted people as sons/daughters of the devil who often do as their father, Satan, spiritually tells them to do.

So, pregnancy cravings are likely spiritually from the devil/serpent/Satan through humans' inherited Adam's Original Sin. Such devilish cravings should be ignored as much as possible by both mother and father, instead of being satisfied.
.
What do you guys think of the above statement?

TSunknown warrior
post Dec 5 2019, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(tomatotomatomy @ Dec 5 2019, 11:26 AM)
What do you guys think of the above statement?
*
Who said that? laugh.gif

Nvm I found out who said that.

menstrual discharge has nothing to do with Satanic or evil.

Neither is pregnancy cravings is from the devil/serpent/Satan.





This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 5 2019, 02:17 PM
tadaima
post Dec 5 2019, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(konholio @ Dec 3 2019, 10:41 AM)


Anyone done with the church but not with their faith here?
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Me. . .!
SUSlurkingaround
post Dec 5 2019, 03:28 PM

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Dec 14 2019, 10:01 PM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No Trolling

SUSlurkingaround
post Dec 14 2019, 03:39 PM

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Dec 14 2019, 10:00 PM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No Trolling pls

annoymous1234
post Dec 15 2019, 10:54 AM

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What does this means?

Peter 2:5, NIV: "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
SUSpot-8-O's
post Dec 15 2019, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Dec 15 2019, 10:54 AM)
What does this means?

Peter 2:5, NIV: "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
*
We must engage in battle with our selfishness and desire to sin. This includes submitting to human authorities, no matter how evil or harsh. It means enduring suffering, as Christ did for our sake when He died on the cross. Our role is not to fight a physical war for justice here; we will be going home soon.
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post Dec 15 2019, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Dec 15 2019, 10:54 AM)
What does this means?

Peter 2:5, NIV: "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
*
.
1PET.2:1-5 (NKJV) = 2:1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

.
HEB.4:12-13 = . 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

.
MATT.4:4 = 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
.
.
HEB.8:10 = . 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

EPH.6:17 = and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

JOHN.1:1 = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Dec 15 2019, 02:15 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 16 2019, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Dec 15 2019, 10:54 AM)
What does this means?

Peter 2:5, NIV: "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
*
Living Stones basically means Alive....Stone denoting Church Building, the Church is about people.

Spiritual house = You're a house for God

Holy Priesthood = That is what you are as Christian...you're a priest to God, it is not just ordain priest in office. Meaning you have the right to pray to God for yourself and for others.

Spiritual Sacrifice = means you offer your life living a spiritual life that please God even though you may not feel like it..that is what sacrifice means.


Jesus says, you want to follow Him, you got to deny yourself. This "self" is about the sinful life. I don't really need to explain what is a sinful life, I think people generally know this in their soul.


Hope this helps.
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 17 2019, 10:07 AM

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Wsup fellow believers.


If you're not feeling well, you can pray or ask someone to pray for you for healing.

But if you need to see doctors or take medicine, please do so also.

Why?

Because medicine or doctors....do you know all in creation belongs to God?

the component of the medicine, even the chemicals ...without God's creation nothing in existence can form the medicine out of thin air.

Even for doctors, God is the one who give man the wisdom, the know how ...even scientists. Every profession there is, God is the one who breath life and can lead his people into medicine, science etc.

What about non believer doctors? To me, it's okay because God is the highest being who gave Man their lot in life, it is unwise to think by going to doctors for whatever reason is being unfaithful to God.

That is just being religiously stupid, sorry for that harsh word but it's just what it is.
alexkos
post Dec 17 2019, 10:01 PM

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is buying insurance a demonstration of lack of faith?
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 18 2019, 09:13 AM

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Nothing wrong with buying Insurance imo.

Churches with missions helps the poor wherever they are lead to help.

Why is it nobody says anything bad about that. Just because it's the Church's doing?

No, the core principle is to lift people out of their plight, that involves finances, the principle is the same on insurance which is getting you out of your plight if needed.

What if the main income earner can no longer earn income? Some people will say, Oh you know Christians during Bible says all suffered so in that religious thought they think it is God's will for people to suffer...so just depend on God.

But you forgot, it is not God who wants anyone to suffer but the devil. Read the Bible carefully, it is always the devil who wants evil for man but God always want and intend good for his beloved.

God allows it but that doesn't mean it is what God heart's desire. We need to learn to differentiate that.


TSunknown warrior
post Dec 18 2019, 09:33 AM

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Another thing..I've been observing Kanye West. biggrin.gif

the guy seems legit.

He's trying, though not perfect but still trying and I'm not going to judge, I think He is ok.

Another brother in the Kingdom.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 18 2019, 02:14 PM
myway1985
post Dec 20 2019, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2019, 09:33 AM)
Another thing..I've been observing Kanye West.  biggrin.gif

the guy seems legit.

He's trying, though not perfect but still trying and I'm not going to judge, I think He is ok.

Another brother in the Kingdom.
*
Justin bieber recent daily post is an encouraging to humanity
myway1985
post Dec 20 2019, 11:31 AM

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I know how to live on almost nothing or with everything. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little. For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.
Philippians 4:12‭-‬13 NLT

For years I heard ppl keep quoting verse 13, but to me this 2 verse came together make more sense.
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 20 2019, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(myway1985 @ Dec 20 2019, 11:30 AM)
Justin bieber recent daily post is an encouraging to humanity
*
Looks like God is using secular celebrities now for his kingdom.

There was also another guy....Korn Rock group member Brian head Welch.

Then a rapper by stage name "DMX".

De_Luffy
post Dec 22 2019, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 20 2019, 01:11 PM)
Looks like God is using secular celebrities now for his kingdom.

There was also another guy....Korn Rock group member Brian head Welch.

Then a rapper by stage name "DMX".
*
Wow bro, this thread is heading to positive track once again kudos!!!
KLthinker91
post Dec 25 2019, 09:29 AM

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Merry Christmas to all!
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 9 2020, 11:34 AM

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Righteousness because of Faith in Christ is what move God

Romans 3:22 (NIV) - But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,


Blessed New Year to all of you fellow believers of various denominations.

We need to believe we are righteous because of our Faith in Christ. This is how God has ordained righteousness under the New Covenant which He cuts with all of us. Because until we learn to let go our confidence in our works as a gauge before God, we will never really experience the divine and the miraculous power of God.

Faith is what moves God and Faith is what basically attracts God. And it's not just simply faith in faith but faith in Jesus Christ particularly. And the Faith that believes God will.......

Perhaps there are circumstances in your life that has caused you to be disappointed towards God. I'm here to tell you many times it is because of the lack of believe that caused us to be in stagnant in life, that has caused disappointment.

Faith is so important if not critical. It is severe that God himself said this in

Hebrews 10:38 (NIV) - But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him."

Perhaps you are in the season where you wondered why God is being silent or that everything seems to be wrong, I'm here today to let you know, you got to re-study on why Faith is so important..important to God, important to your life.

I hope this devotion will help you.

God Bless.




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post Jan 11 2020, 05:28 PM

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I got a question
You know last time Robert huckle was indicted for raping orphans and other kids from Christians homes.
Would want to know why God allowed this to happen ?
These children, aren’t they suppose to be god’s children ?
Why was huckle allowed to dress as a sheep skin when he is a wolf ?
He pretended to be a Christian worker
How would these children ever be able to grow as Christians when their own bodies has been violated ?
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 13 2020, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(renomahans @ Jan 11 2020, 05:28 PM)
I got a question
You know last time Robert huckle was indicted for raping orphans and other kids from Christians homes.
Would want to know why God allowed this to happen ?
These children, aren’t they suppose to be god’s children ?
Why was huckle allowed to dress as a sheep skin when he is a wolf ?
He pretended to be a Christian worker
How would these children ever be able to grow as Christians when their own bodies has been violated ?
*
Have you ever come across what fallen world means?



SUSrenomahans
post Jan 13 2020, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jan 13 2020, 09:57 AM)
Have you ever come across what fallen world means?
*
Sorry can you enlighten me on this ?
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 13 2020, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(renomahans @ Jan 13 2020, 10:14 AM)
Sorry can you enlighten me on this ?
*
A lot of people blame God for allowing evil in this world but they forgotten this world is a fallen world where the devil roams.

God has said it, this world will be destroyed one day and a new Heaven and a New Earth will come in to replace it where God himself is the ruler.

Until then evil will always happen until judgement day come where evil will end.

With that being said, does it mean God does not protect his own? Question to ask is that have those people claim a prayer protection over their children? Have they been close to God or just Christian by name? Have they been authentic and honest to God or have they just been playing religion?

We don't really know. There are many things we don't know but God knows.

Despite of that being said, there are people who have been raped and God raise that person to help others today. One such person is Joyce Meyer. She was rape by her dad at young age and yet God restored to her so many things, she's used by God mightily to teach and help others today. Sure she was scarred but you can hear her own testimony how she have been alleviated from her past.
SUSrenomahans
post Jan 13 2020, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jan 13 2020, 10:25 AM)
A lot of people blame God for allowing evil in this world but they forgotten this world is a fallen world where the devil roams.

God has said it, this world will be destroyed one day and a new Heaven and a New Earth will come in to replace it where God himself is the ruler.

Until then evil will always happen until judgement day come where evil will end.

With that being said, does it mean God does not protect his own? Question to ask is that have those people claim a prayer protection over their children? Have they been close to God or just Christian by name? Have they been authentic and honest to God or have they just been playing religion?

We don't really know. There are many things we don't know but God knows.

Despite of that being said, there are people who have been raped and God raise that person to help others today. One such person is Joyce Meyer. She was rape by her dad at young age and yet God restored to her so many things, she's used by God mightily to teach and help others today. Sure she was scarred but you can hear her own testimony how she have been alleviated from her past.
*
But question is we can’t deny asking ourselves what is to become of these children. After the rape, if they choose to sway, as a result They felt they were allowed to be raped, then wouldn’t it be bad testimony to the others ?
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post Jan 13 2020, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(renomahans @ Jan 13 2020, 11:30 AM)
But question is we can’t deny asking ourselves what is to become of these children. After the rape, if they choose to sway, as a result They felt they were allowed to be raped, then wouldn’t it be bad testimony to the others ?
*
Erm, I don't think anyone should think they are allowed to be raped, it's a violation and a crime.

I think perhaps you're thinking to ask why did God allowed them to be rape, I would be the 1st to tell you, No, God would not be willing anyone to be raped.

But why it did happened, as I've said, it's a fallen world.



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