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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:11 PM)
Baptism is the act of public confession or proclamation. When you baptise baby you sure in the future he or she is a Christian?
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Is that the same question for the Jews of the OT too when it comes to circumcision? I think that definition is a Protestant invention. Baptism is the regeneration of the soul and washing it of all sin, original and actual, born again in water and Spirit.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 8 2019, 02:15 PM
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 02:21 PM)
Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession  repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Wait
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Adult baptism has the public declaration by the person being baptised yes. For infant baptism, the declaration is done on their behalf by their sponsor (godparent).
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:29 PM)
I think the difference btw a roman Catholic and a protestant is that a protestant have only one book that's the bible, for us the Bible alone is enough and its above all books and tradition. If anything that's contradict with the bible even our own culture we try to deny it.
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Which in itself is a problem because of different people having different intepretations.
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 02:30 PM)
How does it make sense? Does the parents know for sure the child will be a Christian in the future?
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Ask God why He also required the Jews to circumcise their infants on the 8th day in the Old Testament in order to be included into the Jewish people.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 8 2019, 03:39 PM
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 05:04 PM)
Bro., while it may seem to be a problem, but I see it as a blessing, that is, if every Christian relied on the Spirit of God, Whom will guide us into all truths and understanding, there wouldn't be much differences in the interpretations since it is always the same Spirit. 😊
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But you wouldn't be sure it would be the same Spirit guiding every person doing the interpretation now would you?
yeeck
post Oct 8 2019, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 05:44 PM)
Because if you're born jew you're a jew; your gentile Christian parents doesn't guarantee their offspring are Christian. Just saying lol
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Nope, if they are not circumcised then they aren't considered Jews tongue.gif
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 06:50 PM)
But in the NT Paul said it doesn't matter anymore tongue.gif
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In the NT, baptism has replaced circumcision for the People of God.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:32 AM)
Yeeck, can you lessen your this fighting in support of catholic doctrine in here?
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Only when people don't post misinformation on Catholic doctrine here. Or if people ask, I will answer. Ask and you shall receive....lol

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM)
There will always be disagreement on catholic doctrine in this thread mainly because it's protestant.
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Not only with Catholic doctrine but also with your doctrine, I can see.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 10:54 AM)
We have many groups in here, it is expected to have disagreement but that is between protestant's argument.

What I don't want are the obvious gap of doctrine between Catholics and Protestant
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You mean prosperity gospel, hyper-grace are not obvious gaps? Fine..
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 11:33 AM)
I find it weird that people like to put their own words into my mouth, something I don't teach or say.

problem has always been on comprehension.

They insist in their own assumptions.

I can test this on you and see whether you are going to put your words into my mouth
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There is no such thing as prosperity gospel, the gospel has always been on the grace of Christ.

However there is prosperity as a result of the gospel and the word prosperity basically mean to thrive and it's not about money.

the word abundance of grace is in the bible and is legit. Hyper is the word derived from the greek hooper which is the same meaning.
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Go ahead, what are you going to say?
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That's between you and the other Protestants, I won't interfere. Just giving an example. Another thing I recalled being different between you and the rest are the 10 Commandments. What is your position on that?
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 12:03 PM)
not my position but the Bible's
2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

With that being said, in the new covenant, we look to Christ and no longer the law. Why? as this verse explains.
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But others will point to ‘If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’ (Matt. 19:17).
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:37 PM

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And maybe another:

"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor.6

But does it mean those who commit such acts will never be forgiven if they repent and ask God for forgiveness? Of course not!

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 9 2019, 12:38 PM
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM

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And another:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM)
1) First of all, Jesus did not say He is NOT good, and He did Not say He is not God.

He was merely questioning the man, what is his standard of good.

2) The 2nd part of the answer from Jesus is the answer to what 'good' standard is required for salvation.

The man thought that he had already fulfilled all the commandments to have eternal life, but Jesus rebuked him for not seeing that he has already put his wealth before God, (the first and most important commandment), and refusing to follow Him.

The good standard here is to see you have fallen short of the required law and put your faith in Christ and follow Him.
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Nothing to disagree with you here.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Oct 9 2019, 12:52 PM)
Just trying to say that Jesus did not say keeping the 10 commandments will get you saved.
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Of course, but saying just believe but ignore the commandments will not get you saved either. For even the demons believe.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 9 2019, 12:55 PM)
Lel, circumcision is not needed coz Christ is here. Read romans.
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Yup, but baptism has replaced circumcision in the New Testament.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 01:04 PM)
Because Only Jesus Christ alone qualify to fulfill it.
It's weird that opponent of this always do not understand this.
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True, no one denies only Christ can fulfill all. But note well, certain things not fulfilled yet such as His Second Coming. Heaven and earth has not passed away yet.
yeeck
post Oct 9 2019, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 9 2019, 01:11 PM)
but the law in effect has been fulfilled by Christ and it's finished.

The cross is the evidence.

His 2nd coming does not mean the law is still in effect for believers.

because if it still is, Christ died for nothing.
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This is where you differ with the rest. For you all the Law has been fulfilled and finished, not differentiating between ceremonial and moral laws. I can go in further details how the Catholic position is more sensible and in harmony with Scripture, while yours is making verses of Scripture seems like contradicting one another.

The Catholic truth is summed up in two simple and essential truths. 1) By our own selves, we indeed cannot fulfil the Commandments. Jesus Christ said,"Without Me, you can do nothing" (Jn 15:5). 2) With the grace of Jesus Christ, we CAN and must fulfil the Commandments. In the very same passage, "I am the vine, you are the branches, he that abideth in me and I in him, the same beareth much fruit." "In this is my Father glorified, that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples (Jn 15:8). And St Paul says "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13).

When St Paul says "we are not under the Law", not as if we are allowed to break the Law like committing idolatry, adultery, etc, but by the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we are empowered to fulfill the Law out of love, thus the Law is not a burden for those who love God, but is indeed a burden for those who rejects Christ and does not have the grace to obey the Law. "What then, shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under grace? God forbid!"

Next, how to obtain grace? By prayer and the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Certainly the first grace is given without being asked, i.e. the grace to pray. If you say I expect all graces from Christ and need not lift a finger, you are greatly deceiving yourself, less we hear on our judgement from the mouth of Our Lord "Thou wicked and slothful servant!, ...and the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness!" (Mt 25: 26, 30).

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