Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?

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Discussion on how God works in predestining people, whether the elect or non-elect, may be the profane and idle babblings of those who want to like God. It's like them wondering and discussing about how God created and controlled the universe and time which is mostly beyond human comprehension.
...... Christians are to just do their part while God is doing or has done His part wrt the salvation of fallen Man. Why discuss about the things of God which we presently cannot comprehend.?

Keep the Faith

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2THESS.2:1-12 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Like I already said, discussions about how God does things that is beyond human comprehension may be profane and idle babblings that do not lead to truth but to confusion and needless arguments, eg discussions about predestination and the inner workings of God's Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience.
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In the Story of Job, circa 2000BC, at JOB.38-41 God castigated Job for demanding an answer from Him as to why he was made to suffer (= JOB.31) since he thought he had done no wrong/sins. At JOB.42, Job immediately repented after God personally spoke to him, even though he did not get the appropriate answer from God as to why he was made to suffer = he kept the faith and was doubly blessed by God in the end.
....... In comparison, his wife probably lost faith - JOB.2:9.

So, Job should not have opened his mouth and demanded an answer from God.

Only about 400 years later, was it revealed through Moses Law at EXODUS.20:5 that Job had ignorantly sinned against God by making a profane offering to God to "insure" his prosperity against his sons' likely future sins/evil-deeds(= JOB.1:5) which he greatly feared of losing(= JOB.3:25), ie he had worried for nothing because a son's sins would not have befallen on the father. It was  the other way round, ie only a father's sins would befall on the sons, down to the 4th generation. Job was ignorant of this law of God since it had yet to be revealed or given by God.

Similarly, some Gentile Christians are ignorant of God's non-burdensome laws/commandments and they may end up like Job's wife, ie suffer for their ignorant sins/law-breaking and then lose faith and salvation, eg go and consult satanic or demonic tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm-readers, horoscope, psychics, witches/sorcerers, shamans, ouija-boards, dream-catchers, etc = breaking God's law/commandment at DEUT.18:9-14.

Remember, Jewish Christians are very different from Gentile Christians. At conversion, most Gentile Christian adults have led lawless lives from childhood = they may not even not know all the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17. So, Gentile Christians are more prone to breaking the non-burdensome parts of God's Law ignorantly than Jewish Christian adults who mostly have led law-abiding lives from childhood wrt the 613 laws/commandments in Moses Law.
....... Law-abiding people have nothing to fear from God or the police/government. .......

2TIMOTHY.3:14-17 = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

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https://www.learnreligions.com/calvinism-vs...inianism-700526

The above opposing doctrines of Calvinism vs Arminianism are just human speculations about God's mind/thinking, intentions and secrets. No one can know/comprehend them until God actually  reveals them Himself to humans which He has yet to do. Maybe, after Judgment Day.

It's like nobody can know about what you are thinking, your real intentions and hidden secrets until you reveal them yourself to others.

This is similar to the endless and needless debate between Christians vs atheists, Buddhists, Jews and Muslims, about where they will be going after they die, ie will it be back to dust/atoms, reincarnation,  heaven or hell.? While still alive on earth, no one can know the true answer until he/she actually dies. So, it's pointless for Christians to argue with non-Christians about the afterlife.

DEUT.29:29 (NKJV) = 29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
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JOB.38:1-11 = 38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2  “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3  Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4  “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5  Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6  To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7  When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8  “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9  When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10  When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11  When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

John Calvin, his Church, and politicians ruled the city-state of Geneva in Switzerland during the Protestant Reformation in the mid-1500s. They executed political opponents and Christian "heretics"(= eg Michael Servetus). John Calvin was no different from the "heretical" and murderous/persecutorial Catholic Popes and Martin Luther(= his Lutheran Church also executed Anabaptist and Mennonite "heretics" and political opponents in Germany).
....... So, from his works/fruits, John Calvin was also a false prophet/pastor/preacher, just like the Pope and Luther - MATTHEW.7:15-23, GAL.5:19-21, REV.17.
....... Widespread illiteracy among the masses and the lack of printed Bibles in the hands of ordinary Christians allowed these power-crazy false prophets/pastors/preachers the opportunity to run riot - "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."(HOSEA.4:6)

IOW, the Protestant Reformation was actually a political movement against the political power of the Catholic Popes in Europe. Religion was used as an excuse for this political revolt. At one time, the Pope was even more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor since the Pope could hold sway over all the Christian citizens in Europe wrt his papal power for excommunication, execution and condemnation to hell as Christian heretics, eg the Galileo trials/Inquisition.

It was the  intolerant/persecutorial, murderous and war-mongering false prophets/pastors/preachers like the Catholic Popes, Protestant English Kings(= head of the Anglican Church), John Calvin and Martin Luther who prompted the mostly Protestant Founding Fathers of America to institute the separation of Church and State in the 1776 US Constitution, ie wrt political power.
....... Most of the American settlers in the 17th century were Protestant refugees who had escaped religious persecution and wars in Europe, eg the Puritans on the Mayflower ship escaped religious persecution by the English Kings and Anglican Church.

After the great ministry of the apostles of Christ in the New Testament, why did God allow the Church to descend to such a horrible state as above.? = a mystery of God.

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You were tying repentance and justification by faith with predestination, which is a Calvinist doctrine. That may be profane and idle babblings about the mysteries and secrets of God which are beyond human comprehension = no point delving about Calvin's predestination.

Cunningly, the Calvinists claim that God has predestined only them as the elect, while most other non-Calvinists have been predestined to be the non-elect, especially if they do not submit to Calvinist doctrines. To me, the Calvinists predestination doctrine is being presumptious of God = a grave sin. Only God can be the Judge wrt salvation.
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If you read Martin Luther's biographies, you will come across how he willfully committed sins/law-breaking just to clear his own Satanic doubts about his own salvation through justification by faith. Hence, he and his German cohorts enjoyed drinking beer/alcohol, making revelry/partying and coarse jokes. He died of a stroke at age 62, probably from too much drinking.
....... It can be said that Martin Luther is the father of the false Hyper-Grace (= license-to-sin) doctrine. .......

https://stevevaughan10.com/2012/07/24/get-d...her-told-me-so/ -  GET DRUNK – Martin Luther told me so - 24 July 2012

GAL.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is not impossible that the Lord/God Jesus Christ miraculously appears in front of the above person on his/her deathbed to Personally save him/her from hell, ala LUKE.23:43, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, ACTS.9:5. So, it is presumptuous for you and other Calvinists to condemn anyone who is still living on this earth as  not being saved from hell or not being the son of God.

At this moment in time, you and I do not really know whether we will still be keeping the faith in Jesus Christ and be truly saved from hell when we actually suffer death some years from now, especially if we keep on committing sins willfully and/or ignorantly like Martin Luther = it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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I believe Martin Luther very likely held on to his false beliefs and teachings until he died, ie when attacked and tormented by the devil to go and drink or commit other sins, Christians should set aside the whole 10 Commandments and go and willfully/intentionally commit the sins, just to mock the devil = salvation through justification by faith gave him the self-justification to commit sins = the license-to-sin. Some Lutherans, Calvinists and other Christians follow this false Hyper-Grace teaching of Martin Luther all the way to their deaths = merrily sinning ignorantly to their deaths.

The Bible verse below commands Christians to Spirit'ually place their faith/trust in the Word of God(= including the Law of God), in order to quench all the fiery darts of the devil, ... and not by willfully committing sins, as taught by Martin Luther above.

EPHESIANS.6:16-17 =  ... 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ....
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P S - Buying non-mandatory insurance, eg life and/or health insurance, and buying lotteries, is likely a sin because doing so shows a lack of faith in God, who blesses people with a good and long life on earth for keeping His Law, and vice versa - ROMANS.2:1-12, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

P P S - It is said that unbelievers on their deathbed often see and/or hear demons floating around waiting to devour them. GENESIS.3:14-19 says that Satan/demons eat dust = decaying dead human bodies = Adam/humans was cursed to die physically and return to dust.

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Seems, some people are averse to seeing many Bible verses or the Word of God.
....... Loving God with all your heart, soul and mind = loving the Word(= Bible verses) with all your heart, soul and mind, because Jesus Christ is God-in-the-flesh and is the Word - JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16, ISAIAH.9:6.
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Yes, that's what the Word/Bible says but only God knows who are the actual ones going to hell whose names are not written in the Book of Life(REV.20:15). You or I or John Calvin or Martin Luther or the Pope do not know the actual names of those not written or are written in the Book of Life, except those already revealed in the Bible as are written, eg Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Moses, beggar Lazarus, the young Jewish robber at LUKE.23:43, the 12 apostles, Stephen and a few others = mostly faithful Jews and Jewish Christians.
....... Seems, some Christians today would like to be the Judge of this by sitting on the  throne of God, especially Calvinist predestinationists..

How to stop reply if you keep asking me questions.? Stop question pls.
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REV.20:12-15 (NKJV) = 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

I have a question to ask.

What if a person has Alzheimer or has some kind of disability in the mind, how can that person be saved?

That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already in the Kingdom of Heaven interceeding on the  person's behalf.

Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.

It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊

Calling on our Lord Jesus Christ would suffice definately but battling with such forces is very very taxing & tiring. I was completely drained after the 1st round.

Might as well call in the calvary, I thought. Definately the Archangels was called upon and every holy brethren whom I personally know of, that has gone ahead of us. Oooppps I am sure I missed out St. Peter & St. Paul.

Yes, infant baptism is Biblical. While there is no description of an individual infant being baptized, the Bible describes five separate household baptisms:

The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.
The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.
Some have argued that while the Bible may say ‘household’ or ‘family’ this does not have to include children. Maybe those households did not include children. While this may be the case, it is hard to imagine that at least one of these households did not include children. And given the fact that we have five explicit references to a whole household being baptized, we have to assume that many, many more such households were baptized. Surely some of them included children.

The word ‘household’ for any Israelite of the day included everybody in the household, children included. We must remember that a household always included children throughout the Scriptures. Every time God established or spoke about His covenant with the House of Israel, it included the whole of Israel: men, women, and children. Noah’s whole ‘household’ was taken into the ark with him (Genesis 7:1); Abraham had his whole household circumcised (Genesis 17:23), and specifically his son Isaac when he was eight days old (Genesis 21:4); the whole household of every family was taken out of Egypt, and God’s institution of the Passover specifically included the children (Exodus 12:24–28). If the Apostles had taught that children were to be excluded from full inclusion in the covenant, such an innovation would not have fit the prophetic covenants which preceded the fulfilled covenant enacted through Christ.

It is ok, Unknown Warrior.

Yup you are right azriqii, that is in not biblical in that, it was not expressed explicitly. However it can be implied, can it not ? 😊

I do not know about your experiences with other faiths, but lets look at other communities of different faiths. Can you see the differences between our baptised young ones and their infant or children ?

I am forever grateful to our Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself promises and gives us every Christian His Spirit, His Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truths, so that we can "see" while to others outside, they may look and look but never see. King Solomon desire for wisdom is what we, as Christians, must try to emulate.

Well azriqii you are correct baptism is act of public confession  repentance from turning from our sins and turning towards God. This is strictly should be for matured adults.

Ok here in simple words if I recall the writings in old Catechism books correctly, Infant Baptism is so important that it protects our young ones from the Evil One. That was what I was trying to imply.

Wait

Adult baptism has the public declaration by the person being baptised yes. For infant baptism, the declaration is done on their behalf by their sponsor (godparent).

Ask God why He also required the Jews to circumcise their infants on the 8th day in the Old Testament in order to be included into the Jewish people.

Bro., while it may seem to be a problem, but I see it as a blessing, that is, if every Christian relied on the Spirit of God, Whom will guide us into all truths and understanding, there wouldn't be much differences in the interpretations since it is always the same Spirit. 😊

Nope, if they are not circumcised then they aren't considered Jews