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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Apr 4 2020 @ 01:02 AM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « . HEB.5: (NKJV) = Spiritual Immaturity
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. .
1PETER.2: = Our Inheritance Through Christ’s Blood
2 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. .
1COR.3: = Sectarianism Is Carnal
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal? .
HEB.6: = The Peril of Not Progressing
6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
The Word of God or Bible states that at the point of conversion by faith in Jesus Christ, some newly born-again believers are carnal babes-in-Christ (= still walking more in the flesh than in the Spirit) who need to grow spiritually by feeding on the Law/Word of God of righteousness and there is the peril of them not progressing or growing spiritually into an adult-in-Christ who feeds on solid food of the Word of God = the bread of life.
So, salvation from hell at the point of conversion by faith in Jesus Christ is not the 'be all and end all' for some folks, especially new Gentile Christians who were mostly lawless or carnal Gentiles previously. .
 QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 4 2020, 10:43 AM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Like I said, I perfectly understand what you're saying here, it is nothing new to me. But the foundation of what we tell new converts MUST be right. What I mean is this: For a babe to grow in Christ, the person MUST see that at the point of conversion He or She is saved and has been cleansed by the Lord. That means there is nothing more to do in order to be saved. <---VERY IMPORTANT KEY.
Do you understand this?
If at the point of conversion, the believer still need to struggle to keep the LAW IN ORDER to be saved, then the core of Gospel is lost. What I mean is, Christ died for NOTHING and in Vain.
Galatians 2:21 (KJV) - I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
If you're asking if at the point of conversion is really be all and end all, then how will new convert grow? Because they're still carnal as you say. THAT is where the problem lies. You convinced them by "metanoia" they still carnal, still worldly WHEN you should tell them scripture Truth.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NIV) - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
Isaiah 43:18 (NIV) - "Do not call to mind the former things; pay no attention to things of old.
Ezekiel 36:26 (NIV) - I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Hebrews 8:13 (NIV) - By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrews 10:10 (NIV) - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. You don't tell a new convert, you are still dirty and you need to purify yourself by works of the Law, while growing up..... that is like saying Jesus have never cleansed the person's sin. you need to enforce all the scripture verses (example) I gave above. They need to repent in their mind for example...They have been made HOLY according to Hebrews 10:10 by Jesus sacrifice and they are no more dirty or carnal (2 Corinthians 5:17).
If you tell them they are still worldly or carnal and need to grow up by "struggling" I can guarentee you...such will struggle but it will end up dead works because the power of what Christ did was NEVER given to them. FYI all those scripture verses you provide above ARE IRRELEVANT I can point couple of examples where you're just throwing scripture for the sake of throwing without understanding the meaning.
Hebrew 5:12 is specifically point to people who thinks righteousness is gain from obeying God's Law. Keyword here is = Unskilled in the word of righteousness. Under the New Covenant, we are made righteous by our Faith.
Acts 13:39 (NIV) - Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the Law of Moses
Romans 3:20 (NIV) - Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.
Romans 3:28 (NLT) - So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law. 1PETER 2 <-- Growing up in Salvation has very much to do with knowing what you have been given in Christ. Ie
1 Peter 1:3-4 (NIV) - Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
Once you accept this, you will grow. We live right because we know God has saved us. It has to do with right foundation. Once you know you are cleaned then changed your mind thinking (repentance) you're dirty and start acting clean. This is the principle. As for 1COR 3 has to do with following people rather than following Christ. If one can see it in todays application, it has to do with following denominations. NOT Relevant.
I would agree with you Hebrews 6 talks about maturing, but again as I've said, the foundation must be right, you must be secure in Christ in order to move forward. That is what it means not laying againt the foundation of repentance from dead works. To understand what is the context of dead works, you need to refer to (always let Bible inteprete Bible)
Hebrews 9:14 (KJV) - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
What this means is that if you keep repeating you need to repent from dead works instead of receiving that blood of Christ that purge our conscious once and for all, you will never grow.
 . In that case, please explain the following Scripture by apostle Paul and Jesus Christ. ....... 1COR.3: (NKJV) = 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. .
1COR.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. .
GAL.5: = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. .
MATT.5: = 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
. MATT.7:21-23 = I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
. REV.22: = Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. .
REV.14:12 = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Afaik, any Christian who unrepentantly commit the above willful or intentional sins/law-breaking will not inherit the kingdom of God or has the right to the tree of life. If there is no possibility of such Christians, Paul and Jesus Christ must have been foolish to put up such Scripture above. Good day. .
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