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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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SUSlurkingaround
post Sep 29 2019, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Sep 26 2019, 04:22 PM)
Dear Friend, it's been awhile and I just want to obey what the Lord has deposited to me during my communion with Him,

The Lord gave me this correlation
And
Angels as we know represents God.

As Christians I think we need to display kindness and hospitality to others...and it is not to say those strangers are God's angels themselves but they are there to witness your kind act towards another fellow human being.

God Bless.
*
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MATTHEW.25:40 specifically referred to providing for the brothers of Jesus Christ = His apostles and disciples, not to just any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry. IOW, Christians have been commanded by God/Jesus to support their pastors, missionaries and Church, eg by tithing about 3% or more.
SUSlurkingaround
post Sep 30 2019, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(yaokb @ Sep 30 2019, 11:24 AM)
I have to respectfully disagree with that observation for the following reasons.

a) Whenever we interpret scripture we have to interpret it in context, not only within the context  of the passage but the overall context of scripture as a whole.
Let us examine what the nature of God is like.

Matt 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
b) This is further reinforced by the parable of the sower.

Matt 13

1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

The sower is scattering seed EVERYWHERE. not only the good soil.

Although Jesus explains that the seed is the word of the kingdom, do we only spread the word through talking alone? Do we not also do it by good deeds ?
c) By limiting our assistance to only fellow believers are we any better that others who openly campaign for support of only their particular group? Does it resonate with the overall teaching of the scriptures? If not, then we have to re-examine the observation.
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JOHN. 13:34-35 (NKJV) = 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
_______

The Lord/God Jesus Christ commanded His apostles and disciples to love one another, not just love any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry.

Being kind and helpful to non-disciples/non-Christians or others is different from the above commandment to love one another.

Seems, there are many foolish Christians/disciples who go around supporting and helping strangers or every Tom, Dikk and Harry and really loving their enemies. .......

GALATIANS. 6:10 =. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 12:03 AM

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JOHN.3:18-19 (NKJV) = .18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

ROMANS.9:13 = 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

ROMANS.12:20 = 20 Therefore

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

HOSEA.9:15-17 =
15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.

16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb.”

17 My God will cast them away,
Because they did not obey Him;
And they shall be wanderers among the nations.

PROVERBS.6:16-19 =
16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
_______

1TIMOTHY.5:8 = 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 09:34 AM)
I'm curious, where did you get the 3% from? I mean which verse?
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The Old Testament law of tithing 10% was towards the running of a national Jewish theocratic government headed by God's prophets/judges, starting with Moses and Joshua in 1500BC. Today, the Church is not the national government = the Church does not need a tithe of 10% to run. So, a tithe of about 3% from members should be enough to support their Church/pastor/missionary.

Bear in mind that Christians have been commanded by Jesus Christ to also pay taxes(= about 10%) to Caesar or to their national government, as long as it is not too burdensome or excessive - MATTHEW.22:21, ROMANS.13.

Requiring Christians to pay a tithe of 10% to their Church is over-burdening them(cf: ACTS.15:28-29) since they have to also pay taxes to their government - 10% + 10% = 20%. False prophets/pastors/Church who teach tithing 10% as a must, are showing greed in their hearts - MATTHEW.7:15-20. Did Paul go around demanding a tithe of 10% from his Gentile converts.?
....... Remember, the corrupt and non-biblical selling of papal indulgences that depleted other's national economies to benefit only the Roman/Italian economy resulted in the Protestant Reformation that was led by the German Catholic professor monk, Martin Luther. Germany, England, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, etc then became Protestant nations.
.
.

Let's say a Church has 100 members earning an average salary of RM3,000 per month. A 10% tithe imposed on the 100 members = RM30,000 per month. ... A 3% tithe = RM9,000 per month. A 5% tithe = RM15,000 per month.
....... Multiply that by 10 for a mega-Church that has 1,000 members. Mega-Churches are common in Christian-majority nations like USA, Western Europe and Australasia.
....... More tithes of above 3% may be needed for Christian-minority nations.

So, a tithe of 10% is mostly unneeded, excessive and over-burdening, especially in Christian-majority nations. Hence, a tithe of about 3% should ne the norm.

As per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25 and ROMANS.14:1-4, many burdensome OT laws/commandments do not apply to Gentile Christians, eg circumcision and kosher/clean foods. Similarly for tithing 10%. Non-burdensome laws/commandments still apply, especially morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments = those who keep them will be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth and won't risk losing faith/salvation through lawlessness - MATTHEW.7:21-23, 1COR.5:1-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIM.4:1.

God loves His people = He does not over-burden them, and He loves a cheerful giver/tither. .......

MATTHEW.11:30 = For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Good day.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 1 2019, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 02:07 PM)
Okay and I want to ask you another question. What do you think of Trinity?
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Why don't you answer your own question first; what do you think of Trinity.?
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 2 2019, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 1 2019, 04:06 PM)
No problem. I believe in the Holy Trinity, there's God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, they are one and the same God yet 3 distinct persons.

Now your turn. What do you think of Trinity?
*
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About the same as yours.

In what ways are/is the 3 Persons of God distinct or different.?
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Fyi, Bible verses against OSAS, ie the risk or possibility of Christians losing faith = losing salvation, eg through lawlessness or the willful breaking of God's commandments/laws. .......

REV.14:12 (NKJV) = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

2TIM.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 2 2019, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 01:03 PM)
I would be an idiot to label any fellow brethren foolish for the works that brethren has been entrusted to do by our Lord.

Yes, without a doubt we must love our Christian brethren first but Scriptures also says a prophet is never welcomed in his own home. How I wish to love all of my brethren but since this is not allowed within my own church, now I have found that loving non-Christians is far more easier and the non-Christians are much more receptive compared to those from my own community. Thus scripture is proven to be right, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.
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The problem is, some Christians may have a wrong understanding of the works that they have been entrusted to do by our Lord/God Jesus Christ, eg are the Christian brethren to truly love their enemies like the ISIS terrorists and US liberals.? (cf: ROMANS.12:40 & 9:13)

Prophets, by historical biblical definition, hear audibly and directly from God, eg Moses, Samuel, Nathan, John, Peter and Paul. I do not think there are any such prophets today, even though a few may claim to be(= false prophets.?).. So, your problem about a God's prophet (yourself.?) is never welcomed in his own home Church is spurious.
....... In the Bible, God's prophets were not welcomed by the sinning/evil-doing/law-breaking Jewish Temple and Kings. That was why God sent the Jewish nation of Judah and Israel into foreign captivity in 800BC. It's misinterpretation of the Bible to apply this historical event to today's Church.

_______

HEBREWS.8:10-13 (NKJV) = . 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:04 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 2 2019, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 2 2019, 03:23 PM)
I had to look up for the meaning of spurious.

Ok tell me when Scripture says about being born again is that spurious too ?

I think the real question in our lifetime that we have to ask of ourselves is that, do we want to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect or how does one even fulfill the Greatest Commandment first.
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MATTHEW.5: (NKJV) =

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. .......
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______

Notice that the gist of the above 2 passages are the same. So, if Christians were commanded by Jesus/God to love their enemies, they were also commanded to pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs, so as to save themselves from hell. Does this jive or sound wise.?

In truth, these "commandments" were directed at the Jews and Pharisees who had stubbornly refused to be saved by accepting Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah/Christ, ie they would have to save themselves by obeying the listed "commandments" at MATTHEW.5:21-48, ... = also the "commandment" to turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, lend to all who ask or do other foolish works.

In addition, doesn't "love your enemy" destroy the Law's "hate your enemy".? - cf: MATTHEW.5:17-20 stated that Jesus Christ did not come down to earth from heaven to destroy the Law. Also, .......


ROMANS.12:40 = . 20 Therefore

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Does this verse sound like loving your enemy.?

-------

MATT.19:16-23 = Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Perfection in Man can only be achieved by following Jesus Christ = believing in Him = saved from hell. Perfect works alone can not save anyone from hell.

Good day


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:10 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 3 2019, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 3 2019, 08:57 AM)
Also your this 3% is something you self decided and it's not based on God's word. ....

The phrase one tenth (1/10) is being use all over in the Old Testament as well as the new Testament. ....

I would be careful not to self decide anything on God's word. I'm sorry but tithing is always a 10% never a 3, 4 or whatever figure.
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ROMANS.14:1-13 (NKJV) = The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
_______ _______

Where does the New Testament state that Christians must tithe 10% to their Church.?

As per ACTS.15:19-29 and GALATIANS.5:1-15, Gentile Christians have been liberated from God's burdensome laws. So, wrt burdensome or non-essential laws, Gentile Christians are at liberty to self-decide to obey or not to obey them, eg circumcision, kosher/clean foods, Sabbath Sunday, etc. .......


In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love.
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QUOTE
I have to disagree. The word brother in Mathew 25:40 is the word "adelphos " in the Greek which means a fellow believer, it's not referring to only specifically Christ apostles and disciples during his days on earth.
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Why? Because Matthew 25 is a parable denoting the time after Christ come to take his people in the rapture, that will be a different dispensation, no more on Salvation by Grace through Faith. Read verse 1 of Matthew 25, how it is phrased. Besides if good works is the basis for Salvation, then Ephesians 2:8 goes out of the window.

So, you do admit at least that the passage applied to supporting fellow believers and not to any stranger or Tom, Dikk and Harry, especially the enemies of believers.

Notice that it was the righteous and saved sheep who were asking Jesus Christ those questions. So, it would be odd that they did not know that He was referring to them as those being fed, given drink, shelter, clothed, visited in prison and when sick.
...... At MATTHEW.24 & 25, Jesus was speaking to His apostles/disciples. So, I believe He was referring to His apostles/disciples when He said "My brethren", as alluded by .......


MATTHEW.10:9-15 = . 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:11 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 3 2019, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 3 2019, 06:10 PM)
The 2 passages are the SAME ? Oh my goodness, seriously ? You are no Christian aren't you ?
*
I did not say the 2 passages are the same. I said the gist of the 2 passages are the same. You are misquoting my words. Are you falsely accusing me of not being a Christian.?
.

Not just 2 passages but the
gist of 6 passages are the same. .......
.

MATTHEW.5:21-48 (NKJV) =

Murder Begins in the Heart

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. ...
.

Adultery in the Heart

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ...
.

Marriage Is Sacred and Binding

31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
.

Jesus Forbids Oaths

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. ...
.

Go the Second Mile

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. ...
.

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
_______ _______

So, can Christians be without any anger with his brother or neighbor.? Shall they pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs.? Shall Christians not divorce for any reason except for sexual immorality.? Can Christians not swear any oath at all.? Shall they turn the other cheek, go the extra mile and lend to all who ask when dealing with evil persons.? Shall Christians love their enemies.?

All these perfect works of self-effort cannot save the person from hell. Only faith/belief in Jesus Christ can save the person from hell = Christians are saved from hell = they do not have to do these perfect works to be saved from hell. Only those who reject Jesus Christ have to do them, in order to be saved from hell by their own works of self-effort.

Also, all these perfect works are quite impossible to do. Can you pluck out your eyes and cut off your limbs.? If you can, you will be without any immoral sexual lust since you can no longer see a sexually desirable woman and no longer be able to carry out an illicit sexual affair. If you can, the Lord/God Jesus Christ may just grant you a favored position in heaven seated next to Him, a much sought after position and reward(= MARK.10:35-45).

Once saved by faith, the mostly formerly lawless Gentile Christians should go learn the non-burdensome or essential parts of the Law, in order to be empowered by the Holy Spirit of God to do the easy and light works of God, ie keep His commandments/laws. .......


REV.14:12 =12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
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P S - It is inherited Adam's Original Sin that will be sending everyone to hell when they die = they are all born as original sinners and need a Saviour/Christ/Messiah(ROMANS.5:12). This Sin causes everyone to occasionally have involuntary immoral/sinful thoughts and desires in their hearts like immoral sexual lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousy, fears/worries, doubts, etc. The spiritual source of this Sin-in-thoughts is Satan. If they are not careful this Sin-in-thought may develop into voluntary sins-in-deeds like murder, adultery, stealing, cheating/lying, etc = such sinners/law-breakers will be cursed by God with a sad and short life on earth.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 4 2019, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 3 2019, 09:41 PM)
How long have you been studying Scriptures ?
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Take a guess.

1 month.? = instant spiritual maturity like McD's unhealthy fast food or Maggi Mee's unhealthy instant noodles - cf; 1COR.3:1-3.
1 year.? 5 years.? 10 years.? 20 years.? 30 years.? 40 years.? Or even longer.?
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About MATTHEW.5:21-48, at that time, the Jews and Pharisees were thinking that they were going to heaven(= saved from hell) by being perfect keepers of the Law, ie did not commit murder, insulting, adultery, vain swearing, stealing, cheating/lying, etc. They were only half-right. ...

... Before the Advent of Jesus Christ from heaven to earth in 30-33AD, only Jews who have perfectly kept Moses Law qualified to go to heaven when they die, as per LUKE.16:19-31, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, MATTHEW.17:3, eg beggar Lazarus, Moses and Elijah. The rich young Jew of LUKE.16 died early and ended up in Hades/hell for willfully/intentionally breaking the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie he refused to provide charity to the poor(= Lazarus) every Sabbath or 7th year.
....... After the 1st Advent and death of Jesus Christ on the Cross in 33AD, perfect-keepers of the Law no longer qualified to be saved from hell when they die, whether Jews or Gentiles, because the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ has already arrived on earth. Only those who believed in Jesus Christ would be saved from hell or inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God in heaven - JOHN.3:14-18, MATTHEW.4:17.

Today, US and other Jews still falsely believe that they are going to heaven(=saved from hell) by just believing in God and keeping Moses Law, as many laws as possible = no need Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah/Christ/Saviour. Similarly for the Muslims, ie they falsely believe that they are going to heaven by just believing in Allah and keeping Muhammad/Sharia Law.

At MATTHEW.5:21-48, the Lord/God Jesus Christ was trying to correct the Jews' and Pharisees' misconception about still being saved from hell by just keeping the Law = the Old Covenant of Law was going to be replaced by a New Covenant of Faith.
....... Bear in mind that the New Covenant of Faith did not destroy the Old Law, ie anyone who breaks the Old Law will still be cursed by God(= a sad and short life on earth) and anyone who keeps the Old Law/commandments will still be blessed by God(= a good and long life on earth), whether Jews, Gentiles, Christians or non-Christians - ROMANS.2, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-17, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

Unfortunately, there are misguided Christians who falsely believe that their New Hyper-Grace doctrine gave them the license-to-sin without any repercussions from God, as if they got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card by just believing in Jesus Christ. In truth, such willful sinning Christians will often end up with curses/calamities(eg cancer) from God and gravely risk losing their faith and salvation while suffering for their sins/lawlessness - HEBREWS.10:26-31 & 6:1-8, JOB.2:9, 1TIMOTHY.4:1, 2THESS.2:1-12, 1JOHN.3:1-10, MATTHEW.7:15-23.

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 4 2019, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 4 2019, 03:06 PM)
Lets cut out chase, just state any miracles you have done.
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MATTHEW.7:21-23 (NKJV) = I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

2THESS.2:9-11 = 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

JOHN.20:28-31 = 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

That You May Believe

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

HEBREWS.1 & 2 = God’s Supreme Revelation

1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, ...

Do Not Neglect Salvation

2:1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

1COR.13:8-13 = 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 2 2019, 10:26 AM)
Fyi, Bible verses against OSAS, ie the risk or possibility of Christians losing faith = losing salvation, eg through lawlessness or the willful breaking of God's commandments/laws. .......

REV.14:12 (NKJV) = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

2TIM.4:6-8 = Paul’s Valedictory

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
*
Other Bible verses against OSAS, .......

PHILIPPIANS.2:12-13 (NKJV) = 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
.

1TIMOTHY.4:1-3 = The Great Apostasy

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
.

HEBREWS.6:1-8 = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
.

LUKE.9:57-62 = The Cost of Discipleship

57 Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.”

58 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

59 Then He said to another, “Follow Me.”

But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”

60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.”

62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
.

HEBREWS.10:19-25 = Hold Fast Your Confession

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
.

TITUS.1:10-16 = The Elders’ Task

10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
.

2TIMOTHY.2:8-13 = 8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the [c]elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
.

HEBREWS.4:1-3 = The Promise of Rest

4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
_______ _______
.
OSAS proponents often quote JOHN.10:27-30 to make their point that every person who has been once saved is always saved, no matter what he/she will decide and will do, as if he/she has no free will like a preprogrammed robot or stringed puppet and can never lose faith or deny the faith or depart from the faith.
....... If you cross-reference JOHN.10:27-30 with JOHN.17:6-26 and read them in context, you will see that Jesus/God was actually referring only to His 11+1 apostles, to whom He had guaranteed salvation, ie only 1 apostle was lost or snatched by the devil out of God's hand = Judas Iscariot, who was later repaced by God with Paul(ACTS.9:15-16).


This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 10:59 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 5 2019, 09:22 AM)
Alright, good morning Saturday. So who's ready for some Calvinism dose?

How to contrast 'you didn't choose me, I chose you' (John 15) with 'repent and believe?'

Is salvation the will of God (hence choosing, election), or the will of man (free will to accept or reject Christ)?
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
.
Discussion on how God works in predestining people, whether the elect or non-elect, may be the profane and idle babblings of those who want to like God. It's like them wondering and discussing about how God created and controlled the universe and time which is mostly beyond human comprehension.
...... Christians are to just do their part while God is doing or has done His part wrt the salvation of fallen Man. Why discuss about the things of God which we presently cannot comprehend.?

Always Keep the Faith

.......

.

2THESS.2:1-12 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Oct 13 2019, 11:00 PM
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 5 2019, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 01:17 PM)
Your question is why discuss? Why not? Discussion lead to the truth. Calvin did not invent calvinisms it is the truth revealed in the bible.
*
Like I already said, discussions about how God does things that is beyond human comprehension may be profane and idle babblings that do not lead to truth but to confusion and needless arguments, eg discussions about predestination and the inner workings of God's Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience.
.

In the Story of Job, circa 2000BC, at JOB.38-41 God castigated Job for demanding an answer from Him as to why he was made to suffer (= JOB.31) since he thought he had done no wrong/sins. At JOB.42, Job immediately repented after God personally spoke to him, even though he did not get the appropriate answer from God as to why he was made to suffer = he kept the faith and was doubly blessed by God in the end.
....... In comparison, his wife probably lost faith - JOB.2:9.

So, Job should not have opened his mouth and demanded an answer from God.

Only about 400 years later, was it revealed through Moses Law at EXODUS.20:5 that Job had ignorantly sinned against God by making a profane offering to God to "insure" his prosperity against his sons' likely future sins/evil-deeds(= JOB.1:5) which he greatly feared of losing(= JOB.3:25), ie he had worried for nothing because a son's sins would not have befallen on the father. It was the other way round, ie only a father's sins would befall on the sons, down to the 4th generation. Job was ignorant of this law of God since it had yet to be revealed or given by God.

Similarly, some Gentile Christians are ignorant of God's non-burdensome laws/commandments and they may end up like Job's wife, ie suffer for their ignorant sins/law-breaking and then lose faith and salvation, eg go and consult satanic or demonic tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm-readers, horoscope, psychics, witches/sorcerers, shamans, ouija-boards, dream-catchers, etc = breaking God's law/commandment at DEUT.18:9-14.

Remember, Jewish Christians are very different from Gentile Christians. At conversion, most Gentile Christian adults have led lawless lives from childhood = they may not even not know all the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17. So, Gentile Christians are more prone to breaking the non-burdensome parts of God's Law ignorantly than Jewish Christian adults who mostly have led law-abiding lives from childhood wrt the 613 laws/commandments in Moses Law.
....... Law-abiding people have nothing to fear from God or the police/government. .......


2TIMOTHY.3:14-17 = . 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 07:09 PM)
Dude, are you roman Catholic? Calvin just represent the truth, he didn't add or minus anything new. It's not ok to be ignorant. God wanted you to know something that's why He gave you the bible.
*
.
.
https://www.learnreligions.com/calvinism-vs...inianism-700526
QUOTE
Compare Beliefs of Calvinism Vs. Arminianism

God's Sovereignty

The sovereignty of God is the belief that God is in complete control over everything that happens in the universe. His rule is supreme, and his will is the final cause of all things.

Calvinism: In Calvinist thinking, God's sovereignty is unconditional, unlimited, and absolute. All things are predetermined by the good pleasure of God's will. God foreknew because of his own planning.

Arminianism: To the Arminian, God is sovereign, but has limited his control in correspondence with man's freedom and response. God's decrees are associated with his foreknowledge of man's response.
.

Man's Depravity

Calvinist believe in the total depravity of man while Arminians hold to an idea dubbed "partial depravity."

Calvinism: Because of the Fall, man is totally depraved and dead in his sin. Man is unable to save himself and, therefore, God must initiate salvation.

Arminianism: Because of the Fall, man has inherited a corrupted, depraved nature. Through "prevenient grace," God removed the guilt of Adam's sin. Prevenient grace is defined as the preparatory work of the Holy Spirit, given to all, enabling a person to respond to God's call to salvation.
.

Election

Election refers to the concept of how people are chosen for salvation. Calvinists believe election is unconditional, while Arminians believe election is conditional.

Calvinism: Before the foundation of the world, God unconditionally chose (or "elected") some to be saved. Election has nothing to do with man's future response. The elect are chosen by God.

Arminianism: Election is based on God's foreknowledge of those who would believe in him through faith. In other words, God elected those who would choose him of their own free will. Conditional election is based on man's response to God's offer of salvation.
.

Grace

God's grace has to do with his call to salvation. Calvinism says God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism argues that it can be resisted.

Calvinism: While God extends his common grace to all humankind, it is not sufficient to save anyone. Only God's irresistible grace can draw the elect to salvation and make a person willing to respond. This grace cannot be obstructed or resisted.

Arminianism: Through the preparatory (prevenient) grace given to all by the Holy Spirit, man is able to cooperate with God and respond in faith to salvation. Through prevenient grace, God removed the effects of Adam's sin. Because of "free will" men are also able to resist God's grace.

The above opposing doctrines of Calvinism vs Arminianism are just human speculations about God's mind/thinking, intentions and secrets. No one can know/comprehend them until God actually reveals them Himself to humans which He has yet to do. Maybe, after Judgment Day.

It's like nobody can know about what you are thinking, your real intentions and hidden secrets until you reveal them yourself to others.

This is similar to the endless and needless debate between Christians vs atheists, Buddhists, Jews and Muslims, about where they will be going after they die, ie will it be back to dust/atoms, reincarnation, heaven or hell.? While still alive on earth, no one can know the true answer until he/she actually dies. So, it's pointless for Christians to argue with non-Christians about the afterlife.


SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 6 2019, 10:26 AM)
You are so unclear about scripture. ....
*
DEUT.29:29 (NKJV) = 29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
.

JOB.38:1-11 = 38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

_______ _______

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

John Calvin, his Church, and politicians ruled the city-state of Geneva in Switzerland during the Protestant Reformation in the mid-1500s. They executed political opponents and Christian "heretics"(= eg Michael Servetus). John Calvin was no different from the "heretical" and murderous/persecutorial Catholic Popes and Martin Luther(= his Lutheran Church also executed Anabaptist and Mennonite "heretics" and political opponents in Germany).
....... So, from his works/fruits, John Calvin was also a false prophet/pastor/preacher, just like the Pope and Luther - MATTHEW.7:15-23, GAL.5:19-21, REV.17.
....... Widespread illiteracy among the masses and the lack of printed Bibles in the hands of ordinary Christians allowed these power-crazy false prophets/pastors/preachers the opportunity to run riot - "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."(HOSEA.4:6)

IOW, the Protestant Reformation was actually a political movement against the political power of the Catholic Popes in Europe. Religion was used as an excuse for this political revolt. At one time, the Pope was even more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor since the Pope could hold sway over all the Christian citizens in Europe wrt his papal power for excommunication, execution and condemnation to hell as Christian heretics, eg the Galileo trials/Inquisition.

It was the intolerant/persecutorial, murderous and war-mongering false prophets/pastors/preachers like the Catholic Popes, Protestant English Kings(= head of the Anglican Church), John Calvin and Martin Luther who prompted the mostly Protestant Founding Fathers of America to institute the separation of Church and State in the 1776 US Constitution, ie wrt political power.
....... Most of the American settlers in the 17th century were Protestant refugees who had escaped religious persecution and wars in Europe, eg the Puritans on the Mayflower ship escaped religious persecution by the English Kings and Anglican Church.

After the great ministry of the apostles of Christ in the New Testament, why did God allow the Church to descend to such a horrible state as above.? = a mystery of God.

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 6 2019, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Sep 26 2019, 03:45 PM)
Welcome Fellow Christians.

We are here to fellowship, to reach out, to encourage, to strengthen one another and to be a Witness unto this lost world of the goodness and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
FAQ
Few simple RULES to follow in our fellowship thread.

1. No flaming/troll post please. Let's keep this fellowship thread clean, positive and encouraging, as the purpose is more for believers of Christ.
2. Do not argue about other religions please. People of other Faith are welcome to ask and enquire genuine questions or out of curiosity about Christianity.
3. What's discussed in here, stays in here.
4. Do not spark an argument or to cause excessive argument, both are not allowed, your post will be deleted and report to Admin of Forum


Previous Threads
V14
V14
v13
v13
v12
v12
V11
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3855898
V10
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3599570
V09
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3485130
V08
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3393815
V07
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3197598
V06
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...&t=2621686&st=0
V05
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395
V04
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/801729
Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/
http://www.guitar4christ.com
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV
http://www.god.tv/

Good TV
http://www.goodtv.tv/
Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/

Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm

Dear Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor.
LYN Christ Followers

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Christian BookShop
1) Salvation Bookstore - PJ SS2, Summit USJ
2) Glad Sound - PJ SS2, Taipan USJ 10, One Utama
3) Evangel - PJ SS2
4) MPH Bookstore
5) Canaanland Sdn Bhd: - http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
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QUOTE(mubtadi @ Oct 5 2019, 04:21 PM)
Hello my christian brethren, peace be upon those who follow the truth. I am preparing a research on the prescription of the heaven in the scriptures. May I post a question here regarding the prescription of heaven in the bible.

Thanks
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@ mubtadi ....... The above links fyi.

SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 7 2019, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 5 2019, 10:50 AM)
God predestined you to repent. Justification by faith alone doesn't contradict with a person's repentent. Faith is the gift of God. If God don't elect you, you just can't believe.
*
QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 6 2019, 02:22 PM)
I didn't deny how God is working in a myterios way but I subscribe to Paul's justification by faith, I'm not an arminian. I found your quote of scripture or your answer didn't answer within the discussion. Try to understand what are we discussing first, going broad is self syok
*
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You were tying repentance and justification by faith with predestination, which is a Calvinist doctrine. That may be profane and idle babblings about the mysteries and secrets of God which are beyond human comprehension = no point delving about Calvin's predestination.

Cunningly, the Calvinists claim that God has predestined only them as the elect, while most other non-Calvinists have been predestined to be the non-elect, especially if they do not submit to Calvinist doctrines. To me, the Calvinists predestination doctrine is being presumptious of God = a grave sin. Only God can be the Judge wrt salvation.

_______ _______

If you read Martin Luther's biographies, you will come across how he willfully committed sins/law-breaking just to clear his own Satanic doubts about his own salvation through justification by faith. Hence, he and his German cohorts enjoyed drinking beer/alcohol, making revelry/partying and coarse jokes. He died of a stroke at age 62, probably from too much drinking.
....... It can be said that Martin Luther is the father of the false Hyper-Grace (= license-to-sin) doctrine. .......

QUOTE
Whenever the devil pesters you with these thoughts, at once seek out the company of men, drink more, joke and jest, or engage in some other form of merriment. Sometimes it is necessary to drink a little more, play, jest, or even commit some sin in defiance and contempt of the devil in order not to give him an opportunity to make us scrupulous about trifles. We shall be overcome if we worry too much about falling into some sin.

Accordingly if the devil should say, “do not drink” you should reply to him “on this very account, because you forbid it, I shall drink, and what is more, I shall drink a generous amount.” Thus one must always do the opposite of that which Satan prohibits. What do you think is my reason for drinking wine undiluted, talking freely, and eating more often if it is not to torment and vex the devil who made up his mind to torment and vex me? Would that I could commit some token sin simply for the sake of mocking the devil, so that he might understand that I acknowledge no sin and am conscious of no sin. When the devil attacks and torments us we must completely set aside the whole Decalogue. When the devil throws our sins up to us and declares that we deserve death and hell, we ought to speak thus: ‘I admit that I deserve death and hell. What of it? Does this mean that I shall be sentenced to eternal damnation? By no means. For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction in my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Where he is, there I shall also be”

https://stevevaughan10.com/2012/07/24/get-d...her-told-me-so/ - GET DRUNK – Martin Luther told me so - 24 July 2012
QUOTE

“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!” ― Martin Luther

GAL.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
SUSlurkingaround
post Oct 7 2019, 03:19 PM

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From: South Klang Valley suburb




QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 7 2019, 01:22 PM)
....... , if a person die as a non Christian, he had heard the gospel and rejected Chris, we perceived he's not the son of God. Got it?

And I think you're quoting the wrong verse regarding prestination. Luther was saved despite his failure in reaching God standard. That's the reason why Christ came actually. Christian still sin, but thrive to overcome by the power of Christ. Sinning does not bring you to hell, unbelieve does. Sinning unrepentantly cause you to lose fellowship and got discipline from the Father. There are stage of maturity in faith.
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It is not impossible that the Lord/God Jesus Christ miraculously appears in front of the above person on his/her deathbed to Personally save him/her from hell, ala LUKE.23:43, 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, ACTS.9:5. So, it is presumptuous for you and other Calvinists to condemn anyone who is still living on this earth as not being saved from hell or not being the son of God.

At this moment in time, you and I do not really know whether we will still be keeping the faith in Jesus Christ and be truly saved from hell when we actually suffer death some years from now, especially if we keep on committing sins willfully and/or ignorantly like Martin Luther = it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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QUOTE
When the devil attacks and torments us we must completely set aside the whole Decalogue.

I believe Martin Luther very likely held on to his false beliefs and teachings until he died, ie when attacked and tormented by the devil to go and drink or commit other sins, Christians should set aside the whole 10 Commandments and go and willfully/intentionally commit the sins, just to mock the devil = salvation through justification by faith gave him the self-justification to commit sins = the license-to-sin. Some Lutherans, Calvinists and other Christians follow this false Hyper-Grace teaching of Martin Luther all the way to their deaths = merrily sinning ignorantly to their deaths.

The Bible verse below commands Christians to Spirit'ually place their faith/trust in the Word of God(= including the Law of God), in order to quench all the fiery darts of the devil, ... and not by willfully committing sins, as taught by Martin Luther above.


EPHESIANS.6:16-17 = ... 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; ....
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P S - Buying non-mandatory insurance, eg life and/or health insurance, and buying lotteries, is likely a sin because doing so shows a lack of faith in God, who blesses people with a good and long life on earth for keeping His Law, and vice versa - ROMANS.2:1-12, DEUT.28, PROVERBS.1.

P P S - It is said that unbelievers on their deathbed often see and/or hear demons floating around waiting to devour them. GENESIS.3:14-19 says that Satan/demons eat dust = decaying dead human bodies = Adam/humans was cursed to die physically and return to dust.


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