typical attitude .. want cheap. want new and want big.. they dont like the new camry 2.0 is bcos they eant to compare it to other car maker 2.0 class car .. why this A company 2.0 got this 6 speed new version engine cheaper price vompare to camry 2.0 4 speed old engine price higher .. then say stupid ppl want to be cheated by toyota .. better buy other better brand ..

I think its very obvious that YOU are the only one crapping here. None of your arguments have held any weight. Even those die hard Toyota supporters have told u that u have no credibility in your childish arguments. Take their advice if not mine.

And again as ive said many times before: Read all posts carefully before commenting further.

how can u say its more powerful than the latest dual vvt-i?the figure shows the maximum hp n torque it can produce at what rpm which cannot get the feel if the low end power not enough oomph.this is important because most toyota engines not offer high revving energy anyway. its unlogic that same cc with more advance tech like acis n dual intake n exhaust side can be less powerful than simple vvti. fyi, i've already went to toyota assembly plant here and i observed the dyno graph on both 2.0 camry n altis dual vvti. the dual vvti hp n torque is higher at any rev range but slighly lower torque compared to single vvti when reaching 3700rpm as well the hp which is higher but slighly lower when reaching 5900rpm. .base on my friend's 2.0 altis, itts quiter n sounds nicer at high rpm. UMW has been stupid of not using this engine on new camry.besides for sure it is more fuel efficient n if the use this powertrain which paired to 7 speed cvt, i think the 2.0 will be equally good as the 2.5.also many people will not say that the new 2.0 camry outdated

Yes thats true. That has been Toyota's sales pitch for many years. Right now, the Camry is doing well. But will it continue to do well in 5 yrs to come? Nobody knows. But for now, one thing is certain. The D segment market has opened up alot by inclusion of the Korean makes and more affordable European makes. Im actually surprised to see the number of VW models on the road nowadays especially in KL. Toyota and other Jap makes will have no choice but to evolve. Right now they might still be in the comfort zone, but will they still be in the same position in say 5 years? Its anybody's guess. But like ive said before, all this competition means better choices for the consumer.

that why camry have 2.5 version bcos 2.0 base on their research corporate people buy it to carry their customer .
when those who drive camry 2.0 version they will say no power bcos of the heavy chassis this chassis i believe is more suit for 2.5 version same goes to altis 1.8 and 2.0 version some also say 1.8 version no power and FC higher then 2.0 version ..

Hello..u did not answer my question?

The general public, including myself, would not have seen the dyno graphs and the info was never shown on the Malaysian Toyota website so I can only conclude base on the figures given on their website. Maybe it's in the brochure, but I didn't bother to check.

Altis 2.0 (3ZR-FE, 2007)
107kW@6200RPM & 187Nm @ 3600RPM

Camry 2.0 (1AZ-FE)
109kW @ 6000RPM & 190Nm @ 4000RPM

You are right about the Altis torque, it gathers its torque much faster than any of the 2.0L engines out there, and basically you want torque to kick in as soon as possible for better acceleration and better overtaking power. But if you look at the figures alone, the difference is really quite small between an engine developed 12 years ago and an engine developed 5 years ago, in fact, based on those figures alone, the Camry 1AZ-FE engine still looks more powerful on the whole.

No arguments regarding the transmission though.

i am making the assumption there is limit to how many they can sell a year, say their capacity allows only 12,000 cars. then their job is to optimise profit for the 12,000 units. given hisotrical stat, the camry is the bestselling d-segment for a while now already. they have reach a point where they cannot sell more/produce more, so they have found their optimum price point.

buyers of camry sit on the middle of the bell curve. hence, the feature set will also be middle of the curve.

u want basic jap, go for teana at ~15K less.
u want feature filled car, go for non-jap.

thats the business end of things, i feel.

on the consumer end, no one is FORCING them to buy, yet they do, despite the choices available.
VSC is a moot point on 2.0 arena, cos virtually no jap cars have VSC for 2.0 segment.

hence, its the simple requirement of customer - i duwan fancy, i want solid , comfort motoring without the bell and whistle.
i want a steady ownership experience (reasonable mainenance/servicing) and a decent resale value.
i want to walk into servis centre and each SC has a desk, and i can sit in lounge drink free drink watch astro as i wait for my car to servis.

things like that, aren't really there for the other makes. the buyer couldnt care less about VSC/crusie control/bluetooth.

when push come to shove, businesses will react. but given the camry driver demographic, it will be much slower than the altis/vios.

This post has been edited by vey99: Aug 8 2012, 08:13 AM

argue till the cows come home la...
i've seen more "new" camry on the road compared to K5..

after all, the people here is not the target market of the camry... so they dont care less about what is being said here (frankly how much do u think the sales of camry will be hit by words that is being said here? or rather, do u think the target market of camry will spend their time trolling here?)....

like it or not, the "new" camry just raised the bar on what refinement is supposed to be on the sub-rm 200k price bracket...

as much as i am anti-toyota, i cannot take the credit away from them when it comes to the refinement of this "new" camry...

no VSC, no sunroof, bla bla bla... so what?
the target market prefers refinement over all of that and yes, as much toys and spec the K5 has, its refinement level is lagging way behind this "new" camry...

toys and gadget will appeal to the younger generation but frankly speaking how many % of the younger generation can afford such a price bracket without MBF ?

I dunno, I disagree with the refinement bit. Because when it comes to refinement, I think they are nowhere near as refined as the continentals. Whether if it's VW, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat? or even Ford, I don't think the Camry comes close. Even if you compare it with the K5, I think the K5 interior comes close in imitating that continental look and feel of a typical continental car.

Maybe it's preference, but continental interior just look a class above compared to the new Camry, which is really cheesy with its decked out faux wood.

Comfort and space wise. Yes - the Camry is top notch, I can't argue with that. And they are selling based on their history and pedigree in Malaysia. But the competition themselves will one day catch up to their level as well and as people become more educated and affluent, they will want to demand for better specs and quality. Can they still continue to do this when that day comes? Look at Honda, they're taking appropriate steps in countering the competition. Is the giant contented to continue sleeping while the competition slowly but surely chip away their market share?

imitating the continental look dont mean it can reach the level of refinements (no doubt koreans has improved leaps and bounds but they are still not quite there yet)..

hard for me to describe refinement in words but just ask those top ranking officials (bad example i know) with camry as their own car or uses camry as company cars.... they will be able to tell u what is it that they choose camry over so many other choices like u mentioned above...

why not passat? why not ford? why not citroen?
why only camry or E-class?


of course when u mean ride-handling refinement, then camry is thrown out of the window la when compared to what u have listed... but when u are already in a certain level, ride-handling refinement is not a priority on your list...

haha..

why toyota will still survive?
sad but true....
for every 1 bashers, they move 10 units else where...

bash all we want, toyota vehicle will still sell by itself...
(case in point, stuck accelerator pedal issue)

so just play your part, steer clear from toyota

at least they wont get your money...

When you talk about "refinement" what do you mean? Are you referring to NVH? Or including interior details (like what zweimmk mentioned)?

---

Added on August 8, 2012, 4:54 pm
They choose it probably due to size, comfort (which includes some NVH factors) and reliability.

So I'm still a bit puzzled about how you define refinement.

This post has been edited by jchong: Aug 8 2012, 04:54 PM

i got no idea about what refinement that those uncles is looking for too....
they only say it is a refined environment in here...

i tried to understand my uncle's thinking in them getting camry's and e-class by talking to them and also riding in their car while observing them...
but nope... they just told me, when u are already there, u will feel it...

haha...

might be along the combo of comfort, quiet, comfortable, relaxing, soothing line....

maybe i will be able to answer u in 20 years time?

P/s - notice how most of the talks here centered around traction control/electronics, power output, number of gears, tyre size but not how it is like to just "be" in the camry as a "uncle" ?


This post has been edited by kcng: Aug 8 2012, 05:00 PM

Perhaps the chipping away not big enough for them to notice yet? Of course if a big enough portion is chipped away they would definitely react.

I don't get why u guys consider the 4speed 2.0 camry to be underpowered. Have 1 08 model, and i find it enough power to carry 4 ppl and a boot full of luggage. I can even cruise at 160kmph comfortably.

Dun tell me, u guys speed at 200km/h with 4ppl on board? even if im alone, i dun dare speed so fast...

I've been in the E and I've been in the Camry. Comfort wise, I'd have to say even the Camry just feels better compared to the E class. Even if you take about space, the overall feel of the Camry is just large and spacious.

But if you talk about choice materials and quality, there is just no way the Camry is near the levels of refinement of an E class. No way, no how. Perhaps what they mean is the level of quietness and how the ride handles. I dunno, I've extensively driven the last gen Camry 2.4V and while it is very quiet and comfortable. The feel is quite good, the leather, the solid steering wheel, leather covered center console and.... that's it. There's no feeling of having reached a particular milestone in my life. Perhaps it's because the car was never mine to begin with.

Now fast foward to the Passat that I'm driving now. The feeling is good, the drive is good, the interior is comfortable as well. There's some hard plastics but the overall feeling I get from all the soft touch plastics is good. The steering is nicely weighted, the door shut sound is nice and meaty... But I still don't feel that having reached that certain milestone feeling.

Perhaps it is like you said, it's only something to understand when you've reached your late 40s or 50s

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 8 2012, 08:09 PM

Uncle already!

eww why are people comparing camry to e class

a company make money, not SOLELY rest on how good their products are...
i think, toyota really excel in their production system, the way they produce car, with high efficiency, low wastage, and increasing quality in the same time. That part really helps them get good profit margin, and in turn be dominant.

VW got this plan to overtake and become world no 1, and im sure toyota is worried with their aggressive moves. Locally, we already witness greater amount of VW than we used to see 3 years ago.

Because I cannot afford E class.