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 Nokia and Microsoft enter strategic alliance !, Symbian will be phased out, Meego stays

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biggie
post Feb 13 2011, 10:14 AM

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i'm saving my money to buy an N8, but i like to wait for the update 1st. When PR 1.1 released i'm quite happy but not that satisfied (i'm expecting a potrait qwerty keyboard) and have start slowly preparing my old phone (omnia i900) for the trade in - wishing that the MWC have some announcement on PR 2.0.

Now this reunion issue coming in, and I'm back to square one. Even my 2nd OS choice WP7 is in doubt as the the adoption of many symbian components (ovi maps etc) will require another major update. Even WP7 itself (without this reunion) already has an update late (copy and paste, exchange issues).

Now I'm seriously looking at android which is not something that I in favour of in the 1st place.

For me a smart phone is very much a tool for me to work on and i want it to be solid and I don't have to think about changing them for at least another 2-3 yrs time.

if anyone can suggest then i be happy to investigate.
SUSgogo2
post Feb 13 2011, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Feb 13 2011, 10:10 AM)
Perhaps Nokia can create phones that can triple boot - Symbian,Android and WP7.  icon_idea.gif

I know this is impossible  sweat.gif , however I think sales going to be good if able to do so. tongue.gif
*
iPhone actually no need to multiboot also can sell.

Not everyone is techy like us....
stimix
post Feb 13 2011, 10:56 AM

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+1 thumbup.gif Your write-up damn kheng rclxms.gif
QUOTE(ViRaViRa @ Feb 13 2011, 09:17 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
DJFoo000
post Feb 13 2011, 11:28 AM

Really? That's the best reply you can come up with?
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@ViRaViRa, you forgot to factor in one condition: you're in desperate need to regain market dominance, and your store has shareholders. You have invested too much in sushi (analog for symbian). While you're still formulating the 'perfect' pizza, your investors are not earning any money (you tell them you will stop selling sushi, and WILL BE SELLING pizza, means you in R&D now, not earning any money).

You tell them your pizza will work, but other stores that sell both burger and pizza give feedback that pizzas are not selling well. Shareholders lari. Left you and the pizza distributor. Pizza distributor might be distributing other products too, so they can survive. But you can't, coz your stall is ALL IN in the pizza business.
cy97
post Feb 13 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(stimix @ Feb 13 2011, 10:56 AM)
+1  thumbup.gif  Your write-up damn kheng  rclxms.gif
*
It is not really a good analogy!

Anyway hope NoWin dun end up like Shakey Pizza! Anyway I hardly eat pizza!
Quantum_thinking
post Feb 13 2011, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Feb 13 2011, 09:41 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

plan A:nokia+android plan B:nokia+microsoft what about plan C or even plan D?
plan A is definitely not a smart move coz there are plenty of player in the market.plan B,yeah,nokia probably will dominant the pizza(WP7) market but look at 10 devices launched at past few months ago,total 2million sales.its even lower than a single phone powered by symbian 3,N8.
y not plan C?since symbian is very mature OS,why not continue their investment by modifying it to be more user friendly,fix some bugs and it just need a little bit improvement.symbian major problem is UI.their UI is very not user friendly compared to android,iOS and WP7.second problem,default browser,nokia/symbian have noticed the problem of browser and they promise will launch an update on the future for new browser.
look at symbian pros and cons compared to the other OS.(i point out the major factor only)
Pros
1.bluetooth is easiest to use
2.Ovi Maps and Garmin support which is the best gps software
3.plug and play,connect to pc,laptop,other electronic device is easy,fast and no need any software to sync(i feel annoying when i use sgs,iphone)

Cons
1.lousy UI which is not suitable for finger use.very not user friendly
2.internet browser is problematic,old,not user friendly as well.browser crash always happen
3.a lot of bugs waiting to fix..

so now they are adopting WP7 and abandoning symbian 3?such a giant like Nokia never keep their word?updates?besides that,i don't understand y they burning so much money in investing symbian,meego,qt in the past and now they just abandoned it by switching to another platform.it doesn't make sense.
*
+5.

QUOTE(DJFoo000 @ Feb 13 2011, 11:28 AM)
@ViRaViRa, you forgot to factor in one condition: you're in desperate need to regain market dominance, and your store has shareholders. You have invested too much in sushi (analog for symbian). While you're still formulating the 'perfect' pizza, your investors are not earning any money (you tell them you will stop selling sushi, and WILL BE SELLING pizza, means you in R&D now, not earning any money).

You tell them your pizza will work, but other stores that sell both burger and pizza give feedback that pizzas are not selling well. Shareholders lari. Left you and the pizza distributor. Pizza distributor might be distributing other products too, so they can survive. But you can't, coz your stall is ALL IN in the pizza business.
*
+100.

Nokia is taking a huge gamble about this step. New things surely being hammered by critics until they prove that they can bear good fruits, then it will silenced by the success.

I really hope that Microsoft can modify the WP7 radically.
nicholasbeh
post Feb 13 2011, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Feb 13 2011, 10:04 AM)
The symbian pro will be adopted in WP7. I guess you never read much eh?

They realise they are wrong to burn money. Now they are going to Microsoft and no need to pay for WP7 and they
get engineering support for free.

WP7 and Nokia will be a great phone. It's gonna be a great combination since Iphone.
*
in fact,u never read much.they promise update for all symbian 3 devices including N8,C7,C6-01,E7...now are they keep their words?where is the update?there is no R&D budget for symbian this year,is it possible the update still coming?they keep promise this and that but their promise never come true u know?they promise developer C++,qt platform will be Nokia major ecosystem and it will last for long but now they are switching to Wp7 which is not supporting qt,C++..Rovio Mobile also get angry of Nokia move to WP7 and tons of developer angry as well.
41LY45
post Feb 13 2011, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Feb 13 2011, 09:19 AM)
Learn what? I think you and another guy got problem with Nokia and Microsoft. Lack of WP7 is because
lackaidasical attitude of other manufacturer towards WP7.

Probably you should learn more about iOS and Android before debating with me. Adui.. you guys are weird.
Already lose argument but keep on asking people to learn.

Which part of my comment you dun understand pls ask la. Dun make yourself look like fool.



Added on February 13, 2011, 9:28 am
Adoption level of user now does not mean that it will be the same when Nokia come out with WP7. The reason WP7 is low because
current handphone manufacture do their best for Android. Nothing much being done for WP7. That's why when Nokia come out with
WP7 device, it'll be so awesome that WP7 uptake will be like iOS.

Severity of failed venture means failed venture la. You already put past tense in it.

Yeah, I know you guys butthurt. But that does not means you have the right to bash the marriage.

Brand survival? If Nokia went for pasar malam OS like Android, there won't be differentiation. It'll become another Android
phone. Nokia brand will not be associated with Android and thus the brand will not survive.

Nokia know that WP7 offer the best survival smile.gif
*
sweat.gif
Android i know it personally, iOS, i my dad got 3GS and sis got iPod Touch 4G. So I kinda know how those OS's roll. tongue.gif


I quote myself on this:

QUOTE(41LY45 @ Feb 13 2011, 02:40 AM)
It's definitely diff, heck better than WinMo 6.5, but they are not marketing the thing good enuf.
Heck, even released the thing half-baked (no copy paste and multitasking).

Unless they innovate, they are as good as dead IMO.
*

Added on February 13, 2011, 12:20 pm
QUOTE(Quantum_thinking @ Feb 13 2011, 11:47 AM)
+5.
+100.

Nokia is taking a huge gamble about this step. New things surely being hammered by critics until they prove that they can bear good fruits, then it will silenced by the success.

I really hope that Microsoft can modify the WP7 radically.
*
Hopefully, or else they are goners.

This post has been edited by 41LY45: Feb 13 2011, 12:25 PM
iipohbee
post Feb 13 2011, 12:21 PM

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Even Americans hate using WinMo phones.
They never gain enough market share over there due to the high call drops and buggy interface.
You don't want to have anything to do with M$soft.

Why bother?

For those hoping to have dual boot, yeah those WP7 phones are good enough to support dual boot and maybe there'll be 3rd party support for it once they're out.


ViRaViRa
post Feb 13 2011, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Feb 13 2011, 09:41 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

plan A:nokia+android plan B:nokia+microsoft what about plan C or even plan D?
plan A is definitely not a smart move coz there are plenty of player in the market.plan B,yeah,nokia probably will dominant the pizza(WP7) market but look at 10 devices launched at past few months ago,total 2million sales.its even lower than a single phone powered by symbian 3,N8.
y not plan C?since symbian is very mature OS,why not continue their investment by modifying it to be more user friendly,fix some bugs and it just need a little bit improvement.symbian major problem is UI.their UI is very not user friendly compared to android,iOS and WP7.second problem,default browser,nokia/symbian have noticed the problem of browser and they promise will launch an update on the future for new browser.
look at symbian pros and cons compared to the other OS.(i point out the major factor only)
Pros
1.bluetooth is easiest to use
2.Ovi Maps and Garmin support which is the best gps software
3.plug and play,connect to pc,laptop,other electronic device is easy,fast and no need any software to sync(i feel annoying when i use sgs,iphone)

Cons
1.lousy UI which is not suitable for finger use.very not user friendly
2.internet browser is problematic,old,not user friendly as well.browser crash always happen
3.a lot of bugs waiting to fix..

so now they are adopting WP7 and abandoning symbian 3?such a giant like Nokia never keep their word?updates?besides that,i don't understand y they burning so much money in investing symbian,meego,qt in the past and now they just abandoned it by switching to another platform.it doesn't make sense.
*
Plan C is down trending. No business will continue selling something which is not going to sell. No business is going to spend on R&D for something which is not going sell. Things like OVI, plug and play etc will eventually be transferred to WP7. Don't you think so?


Added on February 13, 2011, 1:25 pm
QUOTE(DJFoo000 @ Feb 13 2011, 11:28 AM)
@ViRaViRa, you forgot to factor in one condition: you're in desperate need to regain market dominance, and your store has shareholders. You have invested too much in sushi (analog for symbian). While you're still formulating the 'perfect' pizza, your investors are not earning any money (you tell them you will stop selling sushi, and WILL BE SELLING pizza, means you in R&D now, not earning any money).

You tell them your pizza will work, but other stores that sell both burger and pizza give feedback that pizzas are not selling well. Shareholders lari. Left you and the pizza distributor. Pizza distributor might be distributing other products too, so they can survive. But you can't, coz your stall is ALL IN in the pizza business.
*
Pizza is already formulated by Microsoft. Perfection doesn't exist in this business. Recipe is already there, so R&D is minimum. Shareholders will also leave if sushi doesn't do well. The difference is whether now or in next few months.

Other stores concentrate more on burger compared to pizza. People are bored eating the same pizzas in those shops (same old model, all same "recipe"). They don't give feedback that pizzas are NOT SELLING WELL. They are just saying that burgers sell more than pizzas; and they continue selling more burger. Share holders lari or not, it depends on how the pizza sells. Like mentioned above, pizza still sells but just not as many as burgers.


Added on February 13, 2011, 1:29 pm
QUOTE(cy97 @ Feb 13 2011, 11:31 AM)
It is not really a good analogy!

Anyway hope NoWin dun end up like Shakey Pizza! Anyway I hardly eat pizza!
*
Explain why. You don't have a reason to say that Nokia will end up like shakeys pizza unless :
1) you have a good reason which supersedes my reasoning.
2) you can predict future.

p/s : I see that Shakeys pizza is doing good too smile.gif


Added on February 13, 2011, 1:31 pm
QUOTE(Quantum_thinking @ Feb 13 2011, 11:47 AM)
+5.
+100.

Nokia is taking a huge gamble about this step. New things surely being hammered by critics until they prove that they can bear good fruits, then it will silenced by the success.

I really hope that Microsoft can modify the WP7 radically.
*
They have to gamble, for the reasons I've mentioned above in my scenario. Business is all about trying out something new to succeed. It may fail but if it did not? Imagine where will it be then smile.gif

This post has been edited by ViRaViRa: Feb 13 2011, 01:44 PM
scoop7
post Feb 13 2011, 02:15 PM

orly? mai pen rai
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strategic alliance or strategic microsoft take over?

Nokia USA president is out, replaced by Microsoft vet Chris Weber as Elopocalypse continues
nicholasbeh
post Feb 13 2011, 02:19 PM

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i dont think microsoft will allow nokia modify their os so much to be nokia alike phone..since microsoft so strict to wp7.
shogun_125
post Feb 13 2011, 02:37 PM

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pity intel with Meego, which is does'nt go ..
41LY45
post Feb 13 2011, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(shogun_125 @ Feb 13 2011, 02:37 PM)
pity intel with Meego, which is does'nt  go ..
*
AMD also rite? hmm.gif

They also join forces to make MeeGo go iirc.
nicholasbeh
post Feb 13 2011, 02:49 PM

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yes AMD as well.but its too early to conclude everything.lets see tomorrow MWC2011 at Barcelona.
41LY45
post Feb 13 2011, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Feb 13 2011, 02:49 PM)
yes AMD as well.but its too early to conclude everything.lets see tomorrow MWC2011 at Barcelona.
*
True, have to wait for MWC. Hopefully i'll go along just fine.
SUSgogo2
post Feb 13 2011, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Feb 13 2011, 02:19 PM)
i dont think microsoft will allow nokia modify their os so much to be nokia alike phone..since microsoft so strict to wp7.
*
You're wrong. Nokia is actually owning half of WP7. And WP7 will include Ovi and Symbian port. So means Nokia can change
anything they want with WP7.

I don't understand why you guys don't understand how big changes WP7 will be made by Nokia. I find it weird.
41LY45
post Feb 13 2011, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Feb 13 2011, 03:35 PM)
You're wrong. Nokia is actually owning half of WP7. And WP7 will include Ovi and Symbian port. So means Nokia can change
anything they want with WP7.

I don't understand why you guys don't understand how big changes WP7 will be made by Nokia. I find it weird.
*
We're just skeptical of the degree of changes that nokia is allowed to make on WP7.

As we all saw on HTC's line of WP7, the did not Sense the thing up. (Like they did with everything else.)

icon_idea.gif

So yeah, that's my concern right there.
nicholasbeh
post Feb 13 2011, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Feb 13 2011, 03:35 PM)
You're wrong. Nokia is actually owning half of WP7. And WP7 will include Ovi and Symbian port. So means Nokia can change
anything they want with WP7.

I don't understand why you guys don't understand how big changes WP7 will be made by Nokia. I find it weird.
*
ok.final product not yet release and we have no point to argue bout it.
what about their promises to symbian user?such a giant company keep cheating their customer and their promise never come true.
SUSgogo2
post Feb 13 2011, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(41LY45 @ Feb 13 2011, 03:45 PM)
We're just skeptical of the degree of changes that nokia is allowed to make on WP7.

As we all saw on HTC's line of WP7, the did not Sense the thing up. (Like they did with everything else.)

icon_idea.gif

So yeah, that's my concern right there.
*
How can you compare HTC a handphone maker to alliance of Nokia and Microsoft? doh.gif that's so wrong.

U see such announcement between HTC and Microsoft when they come out with WP7? No. Because its just normal deal between software and hardware maker.

This is alliance between Nokia and Microsoft. This is gang up. This is SPPARRTAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Added on February 13, 2011, 4:12 pm
QUOTE(nicholasbeh @ Feb 13 2011, 04:04 PM)
ok.final product not yet release and we have no point to argue bout it.
what about their promises to symbian user?such a giant company keep cheating their customer and their promise never come true.
*
What to do? After going with Symbian so long and not making an inroad, Nokia need to do something
drastic. You go around ask people what they think of Symbian. Bad impression. N8 symbian might be
good. But unfortunately, it is a dead OS as far as market is concern.

The promise to Symbian developer is during when market still good for Symbian (although both iOS and
Android around). But end of last year until now, the Android gain so much market share that Nokia
need to jump off the burning platform like MeeGo and Symbian.

This is because WP7 is proven OS. Its good OS. Some said better than iOS and defintely better than
Android.

Sometimes, you have to break some promise if you're in dire state. When you're dying, you don't cling
to dying platform. You have to jump. You have to so something drastic.

This post has been edited by gogo2: Feb 13 2011, 04:12 PM

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