WP 7 is strictly metro UI only, they don allow ANY customized UI from manufacturers... why u think HTC's WP7 doesnt have Sens UI in it?

Not in the case of Nokia apparently, as Elop has confirmed that the agreement between the two isn't your standard OEM agreement, with technologies going both ways. To be honest too, Microsoft don't really care of Nokia be given leeway to customize the OS, mainly because Nokia has clearly stated that Wp7 is the primary OS, and they won't be dabbling with Android.

From my reading of the releases a few days, Nokia did talk to Google, but there were several things Nokia didn't like.

1. Giving up control - Google allows you to customize everything, but as many have noticed, they want control over the more important bits, like location services (Google Maps, Location Sensing).

2. Opposition from telco companies - right now, it's either android or iOS. They would really like Wp7 to be an alternative (or more of a hammer to make sure Google and Apple understand that they have alternatives and can't be pushed around)

3. Differentiation - Heck, become another faceless android os phone?

Wait. I don't get it. Everyone says variation is a problem in Android. For all I know Android offers the most variation possible to a phone manufacturer. It is WP7 that is faceless. Not one WP7 phone out there is significantly different from the other.

Seriously, someone explain that to me. I genuinely ask for someone to explain how Android is bland and monotonous versus how WP7 is offering more variation possibilities to manufacturers.

Please no fanboy replies. Sensible, reasonable, technical replies are most welcomed.

For all I know, make one good Android and you'll hit gold. Galaxy S selling 10 million units worldwide is a pretty huge statement.

This post has been edited by DJFoo000: Feb 13 2011, 11:13 PM

Everyone? You sure? Probably you have forgotten the word 'some'....or let's take it as 'most' (to satisfy you). By saying 'everyone' it is obviously a generalisation.

FOR NOW, there is no significant difference between one WP7 phone and another, but HOW MANY WP7 phones are out there for you to compare and conclude?

There is a difference, but it is not significant. I agree, but if you are comparing 15 WP7 phones in total (and mostly from the same maker), you can't expect a significant difference YET. It is still early.

If we take a sample of 15 high end Android phones e.g. from HTC, they too don't have any significant difference (unless you root it, or launcherpro etc). Hardware wise, the difference is NOT SIGNIFICANT.




I never said anything about it, so I don't have comments. Android is definitely not a dull and monotonous (at least for me).

I don't think anyone here is saying Android is bland in monotonous. Well, unless if too much exposure (heck, CSL also now producing android phones) is making a brand monotonous.

Android is a problem because everyone is using it. And differentiation is very important if everyone is using a common platform, you could be lost in a sea of competitors and you could very well end up losing customers, because they have no particular urge to buy your phone, because it is so similar to each other. Motoblur, Timescape, Sense UI? These are the UI customization by Motorola, SE and HTC. They needed to be different to make sure their product stood out.

In the case of WP7, their problem is two fold, mainly because HTC, Samsung and LG, the three comitted to WP7 seems to be producing very boring phone, almost refusing to innovate more that the baseline hardware that Microsoft has specified. In the case of HTC, they shoved WP7 into HD2 and called them HD7, all the while drowning the Wp7 portfolio with successions of Android phones.

And the fact also remains that these three manufacturers were quiet happy to sell the hardware without worrying too much about the software. It's free some more. But the scary part is as long as you use an Android phone, whatever you do with it is being tracked by Google so they can know where, what, who you are. In light of that, free means having your habits go to the internet.

What happens now is because Google said android is free, it gets shoved into every device imaginable, and customized sometimes to its detriment. You now have tons of devices that works using a common platform with all the advantages, and here it is, disadvantages.

Android keeps being a work in progress. Releases after releases that offer incremental updates and improvement. Because of that, compatibility goes out the window, and you have unfortunate ones that are stuck with stale food (aka old versions) that cannot update. If you cannot update, then the marketplace is useless, since now you have to go by platform. This apps works on 1.6, this one 2.1 only. This app works on this device and not that device. Don't believe me? Ask Rovio, the Angry Birds developer who basically admitted that they won't be able to get it working on all android version.

Why do you have so many software developer happy working with Iphone? It's the same as why console games experience is consistent and well executed - the developers know what the capabilities of the target device are, and codes appropriately. Microsoft tried following a mashup of Android and Iphone philosophy by specifying a baseline (a target for all developers to develop apps for) making it easier to develop and test for. That's why, if one were to ask any developers, they would readily admit that the easiest platform to develop for is Wp7.

Why isn't Wp7 gaining traction then? Barring Nokia, no one is actually actively promoting Wp7, or even are promoting it at the same level as their other offering. HTC only has three models, Samsung has what? One? Where's LG?

So, in short..

1. WP7 needed a champion, a company that would only promote Wp7, instead of having affair (or madu) with Android, Bada, etc etc. They got that with Nokia.

2. Android is fragmenting - Simply put, there are too many variations of software and hardware out there that Android Marketplace will never be able to duplicate Apple's App store or Windows Marketplace ability to buy apps and know it definitely will work on your device.

3. That also means you'd have to actually target your coding to spesific device, instead of platform.

ok.apart of apps,standardized hardware,software providing better,easier environment for developer,im very much concern about features.compare side by side between WP7,Android and symbian.obviously,wp7,
practically,i need video call,plug and play OTG(sync with zune,itunes,samsung kies etc is troublesome),gps(obviously symbian owned the crowd,android is not bad)...
wp7 seems like doesnt suit me but it doesnt mean it not suit for the others who concern more in other area.

Add on,transfer file via bluetooth is another point which is very important for me.

This post has been edited by nicholasbeh: Feb 14 2011, 04:34 AM

True that, as a former symbian user, I find that Android cater it's users with the same former functionalities as a Symbian phone does.

Regarding your reply. Well there's your problem. While all WP7 phones are considered 'high end' with regards to specs, not all Android phones are 'high end'. My variation meant that a manufacturer can use the same platform for many market segments, and evidently WP7 fails in this department while Android soars. Notice how you only compared 'high end android'? You forgot about lower end.

It's like Lamborghini. They sell only supercars. They are successful coz their product is good. Anyway you do know Lambo by itself cannot survive, right? They are under Audi, and Audi makes what? Yes, cars for different market segments.

Lotus might be a better analogy here, since they were bought by company that only makes non-sports cars.

lol seriously long replies weih. To make myself clear, 'variation' by you two means 'the maximum amount of variation of android devices possible has been achieved, so it'll be harder to innovate', am I right?

State your definition of 'faceless' please.

So, all of a sudden having different custom UIs is not 'variable' enough?

Before this, somebody said manufacturers slow down production of Android to make WP7, so it's gonna be awesome. Now another person is saying these manufacturers are not committed enough, so it's gonna take time. What?

You do realise HTC HD7 was available on the market (ours at least) loong before the Desire HD? What's up with nobody actively promoting WP7?

And you can choose to sync your data with Google or not in Androids. LOLLLLL got use the phone before?

Sry all I'm rushing for class. I apologise if my replies sound half-baked, coz they are. Hope I made my point.

You know what you are talking or not? Android is totally customizable....it is the WP7 that looks like clone coming out from the same Shenzen factories!!! But i can understand why Nokia don't want to go with Android....Google has control of whole eco system....they control browser, maps service, location service, satellite service, and everything else you can think of.....in short they control the internet.

MS on the other hand does not have a dominating ecosystem like Google, they only control the OS....their search engine and other services is not up to mark yet and Nokia already have invested lots in a pretty mature OVI maps.

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Added on February 14, 2011, 9:41 amYep, another point which why Android will dominate the market. Do not look down on the low-end market...it is the low-end market that makes Nokia still the No. 1 handphone seller in the world today...while their high-end and mid-end have all been busted by Apple and Android....their emerging market in third world countries that continues to give them the cash. But soon, this will change coz China and India are coming out with cheap hp for these markets...no way Nokia can be cheaper than them.

There are many evidence Android is already do respectively in the mid-end market....and companies in India making cheap Android phones (like the CSL rebadged models). Soon, even the lowest end of the cheap phones will be running on Android with a huge market place with tons of FREE apps, which will attract the low-end market even more. Who cares if half of these apps are crap. As long as it's free, it'll be a strong attractions for emerging markets.


This post has been edited by Matrix: Feb 14 2011, 09:41 AM

@Matrix
Nokia is top sales in low and mid end segment.

Yes, that what i said isn't it? But not for long. Even their CEO has already admit that in the burning platform internal memo. China/India will grab this market from them very soon.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Feb 14 2011, 10:29 AM

$$ is why Nokia choose WP7 as major reason not controls

Windows Phone 7 Deal Could Net Nokia "Billions"

The reason for me to compare such way is because the 1st 15 Android phones were neither cheap. They were high end phones too. The lower end phones just came into the market.

Even most of the low end Android phones in the market today are crappy ones which can't fully make use of the OS (mainly due to screen resolution). Android has its minimum requirement too e.g. a min screen resolution but they don't implement a restriction which I don't understand why. Are they going for quantity and not quality? Looks like it.

Most of the low end Android phones that I've used were nightmares after switching from some decent Android models. Even now, the cheapest Android phone with decent screen resolution will be the HTC Aria which is nearly RM1500.

I believe WP7 @ Microsoft don't want to sacrifice the quality for the sake of quantity and that is why they have restriction (and that MAY change too in the near future).

Even if Nokia comes up with low end WP7 phones, it will cause another problem as they will kill their own lower end S30/S40 models. Those OS are less buggy / stable compared to Symbian and having a good sale worldwide too.



Time frame from the launch of Desire HD and HTC HD7 was less than a month. Was that way toooooo long for you? And I don't see anyone actively promoting HTC Desire HD either.

This post has been edited by ViRaViRa: Feb 14 2011, 11:38 AM

^that's the point. Because more promo was done for HD7. Now someone said HTC was to be faulted for the lack of promotion of WP7. Isn't that contradictory?

And since when ppl started expecting awesomeness from low end phones? You pay what you get (dun talk about 2nd hand and old models). You pay kancil price, you get kancil. You pay Gallardo price, you get Gallardo. But the point made by Android is variation. They can make both Kancil and Gallardo.

WP7, in terms of specs can only make Gallardo. Now someone said Nokia leads in the Kancil segment. Adopting a platform that will limit resources to your lead selling sector, isn't that, for the lack of another word, stupid?

And to reiterate a point, not everyone wants a Gallardo, though however attractive that idea might be.

Nokia owning half of the WP7 in the agreement. OMG, if you never read stuff, pls dun post here lah.

yeah, but Nokia can do anything they want yo

yeah, only you is clear minded on this. The other are clouded with hatred for Microsoft. They think its cool to hate Microsoft.

What you talking about? Mostly replies are sensible. But because you're fanboy, you can't take different idea from what you can brain.

That's so wrong. After Nokia come out with WP7, you'll realise it looks like Symbian because it has Ovi maps and other feature from Symbian OS.

because HTC and other manufacturer busy promoting android... so Microsoft angry and give all to Nokia.

That's so wrong. Android is clone from Senzhen la. You go see around. Those China phone are using Android. Its proven that Android
is pasar malam OS clone...I no support piracy...

^lol it's as if you've seen a working Nokia WP7. You and your high hopes on this 'awesome' Nokia WP7 amuses me.

Wouldn't it be shameful if a ShenZhen small company can make more money from Android fake phone than Nokia can from ori WP7 phones?

Oh yeah, I forgot. You know nothing about neither Android nor WP7.

This really sums up what I think.

Nokia needs plastic surgery not a brain transplant

A real leader would seek to fix the problems. Symbian isn't a bad operating system, it just needs a makeover. Definitely the user interface is dated, but the performance is there. The core is solid. Nokia's software and Ovi services platforms do desperately need cosmetic surgery. Instead, Elop proposes a brain transplant, by swapping out Symbian (and Meego) and Ovi for Windows Phone and Live services (except for maps). A brain transplant will kill the patient.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/...lant/1297657921

Hot sauce pls?
What you say cannot be confirmed w/o valid sources.

Anyway, they already too slowpoke. Many already jump ship (me included).
I don't want something to look like a Symbian, i want the features in a better UI with less performance issues.

Thus, i picked Android.

Care to clarify more? If android keep giving compatibility problems, there wont be people buying new devices and let a lone more developers embracing Android SDK for the past 365days.

This is what Rovio said here : http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/angry-...blems-20101119/
-"With our latest update, we worked hard to bring Angry Birds to even more Android devices. Despite our efforts, we were unsuccessful in delivering optimal performance."
-The 17 now-unsupported devices, as well as a general exclaimer regarding custom ROMs and Android 1.5 owners will be unable to use the current official version of Angry Birds.
-Rovio made changes to their game that increased the required resources to an unnecessary level
-this has nothing at all to do with fragmentation, but rather a mistake on Rovio’s part that is being corrected in the form of a lightweight version

You are giving twisted facts.


Oic... got any apps which works like that where only 2.1 able to run but 2.2 , 2.3 and all newer iteration will crash?

By the way, if there are apps which works on 2.1 but wont be working on 1.6, i dont think developers even give a damn to this issue. versions older than 2.1 is way lesser and users who still using 1.6 or 1.5 might be those 2years+ budget phone users which i dont think they give a damn much on apps that extend.


Please stop posting twisted facts, this is the last thing we need in tech forum. Steve Jobs made twisted facts on Android to divert buyers away from buying Android phones and he really earns more $ by saying twisted facts, but you didnt.

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Added on February 14, 2011, 3:44 pmThats true if they just polish up Symbian and continue to use it for low and mid end market. But we all know what will happen once Nokia kick Symbian out from their face.

This post has been edited by techmostwanted: Feb 14 2011, 03:44 PM

Wow. So many strong opinions. Some well-worded and some just 1-sentence trolling.

I suggest just wait and see what happens.