bmanz,
you may have misread the post you quoted...
here's the repro of the relevant para...from the posting on 3rd Nov
"From James Blog.
http://swiftletfarmer.blogspot.com/
Is Smell Important? Obviously Yes!
This Article may open up those Jokers’ Brain dead minds (so called SIFUS) who tried to spoil the Love Potion image in the market. This was done particularly to hijack out of jealousy and envy.
If my memory served me well, it was about 2 or 3 years back When Love Potion formulation was discovered by me. Some of them asked me for the formula of Love Potion but I refused to give it them. Here sparked the anger".....(truncated by Cergau)
Coolandy had quoted James' blog!

Yes Cergau, that was posted on James Blog.

I don't know who he was referring to asking for the formula and it definitely wasn't me.

There are many others promoting aroma and this will separate the men from the boys, I hope.

---

Added on December 26, 2010, 2:45 pmThe Scientific Method

The Scientific Method is the way scientists learn and study the world around them. The basis of the scientific method is observing and gathering background information, asking a question, forming an hypothesis (or an educated guess about the answer to your question), and then trying to come up with the answers by collecting and analyzing data.

We use the scientific method all the time. For instance:

* Observe: The TV won't turn on.
* Think of a question: What is wrong with the TV?
* Predict the answer (hypothesize): The TV won't turn on because the cord is unplugged.
* Plan the experiment: I will check to make sure the plug is in the outlet.
* Collect data: The TV is unplugged.
* Analyze results: The TV won't turn on because the cord is unplugged.

The scientific method is often divided into steps. This is helpful for organizing the process, but keep in mind that the key element of the scientific method is testing the hypothesis. In other words, can you prove that your hypothesis is wrong?







A good scientist is observant and curious about what is happening around him/her. This step also includes reading and studying what others have done in the past because scientific knowledge is cumulative.

Spend time observing and exploring before coming up with a question to investigate.


The scientist then raises a question about what (s)he sees going on. The question raised must have a “simple,” concrete answer that can be obtained by performing an experiment.






The hypothesis is a tentative answer to the question based on your observations and explorations. When forming an hypothesis, remember that a hypothesis is a question that can be tested by an experiment.

It may be easier to write a hypothesis if you use an "if-then" format. For example: "If magpies have an aggressive nature, then there should be fewer birds feeding when magpies are present than when magpies are not present."


Plan an experiment in which you can test your hypothesis. Make a step-by-step list of what you will do to answer your question.

* Select only one thing to change in each experiment. Things that can be changed are called variables.
* Change something that will help you test your hypothesis.
* The list must tell how you will change this one thing.
* The list must explain how you will measure the amount of change.
* Each type of experiment needs a "control" for comparison so that you can see what the change actually did.




Observations can be written descriptions of what you noticed during an experiment, or problems encountered. Keep careful notes of everything you do and everything that happens.




Summarize what happened. This could be in the form of a table of numerical data or graphs. It could also be a written statement of what occurred during the experiments.

Using the trends in your experimental data and your experimental observations, try to answer your original question. Did your experiment support your hypothesis?

If your hypothesis was not supported, you need to think about what might have gone wrong. Maybe your hypothesis was incorrect and you need to make further observations and conduct more research (return to Step 1). Or maybe your experiment design needs some reworking (return to Step 4). Don't be discouraged! The Scientific Method is a cycle that helps us better understand the world around us.

---

Added on December 26, 2010, 2:47 pmThe scientific method is not a recipe for making original discoveries or inventions; it does not prescribe the pathway that scientists must follow to attain success. The goal of the scientific method is to ascertain whether a hypothesis is true to some degree. Indeed, the nucleus of the scientific method is the confrontation of an idea (hypothesis) with the facts it refers to, regardless of the source of the idea in question. In sum, the scientific method is a means for checking hypotheses for truth rather than for finding facts or inventing ideas

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/scientific-method#ixzz19CKXDGM0

This post has been edited by coolandy: Dec 26 2010, 02:47 PM

Hi all,

anybody heard of HAUNTED bh ?
Last week at night I went up alone with a small torchlight and a standing bag of cement scared me until legs gone soft.


My partner asked his friend about CCTV and heard there is a monthly or yearly license fee of some sort hence stopping his purchase.
Is this true ???

If needed I might have to DIY a periscope to peek at the staircase entry airwell from control room during daytime.



Thanks

This post has been edited by BirdNest_Satay: Dec 26 2010, 04:35 PM

TAN 2020

IMHO, I think what we all really want is an aroma that'll attract birds even if the conditions are not perfect. You are looking for a magic potion? ... if you cannot get the basic condition for Swiftlet right, why getting into the business?? Is it because of the "Greed"inside YOU??.

There is no telling whether an aroma is doing anything when it is used in an already successful birdhouse or a section of an already well populated BH. It can be concluded that since a BH is already doing well, regardless of aroma the birds would eventually populate the NP anyway. - We already conducted the test at same location, Aroma indeed can help to tame the birds FASTER to build nests than the BH without Aroma - when basic condition is RIGHT.




[[color=blue]
he.....he..... where is our malaysia boleh sifus .... since our malaysia sifu r so shy , SO WE DO OURSELF LAH ... DIY LAH WHY WE

NEED THEM TO JOINT , I YA WE ALSO CAN LAH .

ok lah let newbies try i c .... ok , let me try for free , no need 5 k or 10 k.... he...he... important is knowledge and experience

than i can gain leh , what is there 5 k and 10 k , hey man value of knowledge is INFINITY , WE SHALL THANKFUL ON THIS ..

[I]
i would like to suggest on senior tuckfook and our pak HM tester tan2020 dispute as below :

as i mention earlier my BH did by CONS....ULTANTS oledi 13 months no bird at alll , ha....ha... now new DR is taken over(myself) and bcos motivated by our sifu tuckfook post and opinion , i decided to become WHITE RAT to give little contribution on swiftlets aroma ... , i think my BH(suka sendiri) is most suitable to do test on all aroma why :

1. no risk , no bird mah

2. oledi sick no harm to go for big operation.

3. like tan2020 mention other factor also important so since my BH oledi sick may be H3N1 can do black magic for me...he..he.
hope JACKPOT ....

4. Is good to test on problem and empty BH to c how effective of swiftlets aroma ... may be......pray for me pls......


5. FYI i/Cons... did a lot mistakes on my BH like smell problem , NP dirty , LMB problem , wiring .... but now oledi clean properly..
hope for good start yr 2011....yeah.....

as u know i am newbies and don't have experienced , no good sound ....just learn tepi jalan , from book , dun have sifu ...just have basics knowledge and willing to become WHITE RAT , Other experienced swiftlets farmer r may be not suitable lah bcos they oledi track record and got other "KUNG FU" to help so may be result not so......


he.....he... just a bit drugged.... drinking too much for MERRY CHRISTMAS ....bull shit a lots ..

[SIZE=7]
actually i oledi bought few canN of H3N1 but scare to use after reading 2 Malaysia Boleh sifu comment on blog ...

oledi more than a week no respond from them so i use my BRAIN LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE I decide to put on my sick BH

c AMIN, O DI THA FOR CAN HELP ON BALCK MAGIC...


he.... he.... sifu tuckfook and tan2020 dun worry my suggestion/testing is result nothing liable to yr just little info on swiftlets aroma , unfortunately i don't have LP otherwise i will try also....


JUST MY LITTLE OPINION ON SWIFTLETS AROMA HOPE ALL BIG BROTHER AND SIFU DON'T MIND....he..he... i just enjoy to do more R & D

BROTHER TUCKFOOK AND TAN 2020 GIVE ME 3 MONTHS I WILL TELL U RESULT.....


LAST SUGGESTION ANY 1 WANT TO CONTRIBUTE LP OR WITNESS OR TAKE CHANCE OF VISIT EMPTY BH AT BM , PENANG CAN ME

AT 016-4176747 JOINT ME AS WHITE RAT....

ALL R WELCOME TO TEST ANYTHING U WANT AT MY SICK BH .... MY SINCERE OFFER IS FREE

WHY SUSAH-SUSAH ASK THEM TO JOINT TOURNAMENT , FREE MARKETING AND ADVERTISEMENT ....HE HE... TALK BIRD AGAIN...C YR 2011 LAH

[SIZE=7]
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR 2011 ..... PRAY FOR SWIFTLETS REZEKI FOR ME


THANKS

BEST RGS[/B]

This post has been edited by htqueck: Dec 27 2010, 05:04 PM

[quote=coolandy,Dec 26 2010, 02:35 PM]
Yes Cergau, that was posted on James Blog.

I don't know who he was referring to asking for the formula and it definitely wasn't me.

There are many others promoting aroma and this will separate the men from the boys, I hope.

---

Added on December 26, 2010, 2:45 pmThe Scientific Method

I maybe one of those guys that J must be referring to as I recalled when J posted Free sampling @ this forum for his Aroma, I did requested for the free sampling as Like the rest, I was curious if that really was a magic portion for the BH if like as advertised but then, I was furious when told that there was no more free sampling and out of stock and then later, telling me that I need to pay.......a few hundreds for the Aroma. Either that He is trying to do magic " Now you see it, now you don't" or he must be trying to cheat me into buying but I don't need his Aroma but only wanted to know if what his magical Aroma was really work like he advertised. Mr. J, I was very angry with you then but not evil enough to consider damaging your Aroma sales if it's really work.

Pardon me Mr. J, I didn't know about your Aroma to really pass judgment on it but only telling a fellow owner that he must be S*** to buy 6 bottles since he mentioned that it wasn't working at all. We all are here trying hard to help all in the trade sincerely and honestly....on mutual respect and working toward a better future for everyone here.

[quote=htqueck,Dec 26 2010, 11:53 PM]

PM me your location, I'll look at your BH from the outside and perhaps later call you if I need to look inside. Please let me know your builder's or consultant's name and maybe I'll have an idea what had been done.

Thanks.

My friend, TF..

No NO NO for chicken shits as they are never the same as swiftlets' shit and shouldn't be use all all neat BH as the danger is far greater the the gain.

Chicken bring in many diseases which we hope will not occur in BH and bringing the chicken shit are like bringing the chicken's problem near the birds. In one ECO park that I came across, they even have a chicken farm next to their BH which I believe that that should be allowed.

Don't use other than the swiftlets shit and if siwlflets do visit your BH internally, then your BH has a future and shouldn't be wasted at all. Observe what to be modified to make it a success story to tell in a couple of years but surely no chicken shit, repeated again if needed.

C shit and S shit smell differently although to our human nose, they may feel the same but never to the sensitive nose of the swiftlet...... that's why I always prefer the original ones rather the man made ammonia, A is A but is different to the expert nose of swiftlets.........unless you can design a smell which is better than the original one, I also will buy but who to try by Coolandy's Challenge.

Use only fresh shit to draw in birds as expired one are not effective.

I think almost all of us are in this business for the money with the exception of WW who advocates a swiftlet sanctuary and in return perhaps a by product from the ones WW is giving protection. Yes whoever denies that they are not in some way "greedy" for money is probably a hypocrite. Of course greed is relative.

Similarly, the production of Aroma and selling this product is mostly all because of the returns aka money. The profit margin from the manufacture and sale of aroma may be somewhat disproportionate when compared to owning a BH.

I have been given by many, several types of "Nesting Plank aromas" as well as made my own but cannot come to a conclusive result that these help or otherwise. It is extremely difficult to conclude as very many other factors may have caused the same results.

I personally would love to be in possession of a miracle cure and I'm sure most of us would too.

Coming from a very scientific background, I believe there is such an 'aroma' that will attract these birds but given so many claims around so very many products I need scientific evidence that any single product will work, not just testimonials and marketing ploys.

I have been extremely careful in applying artificial product around my BH and have conducted careful thought and scientific analysis before action to avoid any irreversible problems. As an example, swiftlet shit when mixed with water produces ammonia gas which is overwhelming and can be poisonous. At the correct humidity and temperature this gas is continuously produced until the source, in this case the shit, is exhausted. Other gasses produced in smaller quantities are methane, hydrogen sulphide, carbon dioxide etc. these contribute to the unique smell of wet swiftlet shit.

Ammonium bicarbonate releases ammonia gas and a little carbon dioxide as it decays due to heat and humidity. In my opinion this creates an overwhelming "cover" for the new cement smell and the fresh wood smell.

Having tonnes of chicken dung outside my BH gave the whole area the strong smell of ammonia, methane, hydrogen sulphide, which is similar to swiftlet dung, PLUS the added effect of lots of insects flying around the BH because of all that shit.

So, all that seemed to attract the new swiftlets with food, smell and security in numbers. That is the only "aroma" I used then.

Birds are known to preen themselves with oil produced from a gland just above their tail. I believe that this oil may be an answer to our dreams. To produce this oil may be against all that WW is advocating in swiftlet sancturies, therefore I will not elaborate.

May we all succeed in the quest for the swiftlet miracle.

BTW I only used chicken shit once at the start of the BH and never again. Also, Ammonia is a very powerful disinfectant but unfortunately as it wears off, the remaining shit becomes a breeding place for a lot of unwanted things. However, it fertilised my fruit trees.



This post has been edited by tuckfook: Dec 27 2010, 04:38 PM

If someone has a piece of land, and the surrounding already have bird houses, is it still OK to build another bird house?

is it advisable to JV for BH? if i own land, and the partner builds the house and manages it. How should a JV like this work? 50/50?

HI tuchfook appreciate the lesson in science and wish I have the opportunity of having better education but unfortunately was lacking during my time. I am a sceptic and everything I do is based on scientific approach.

I am very passionate and do lots of experiment and research on whatever is my hobby is at that time and they are too many to mention. I breed racing ponies and endurance horses in Australia for 17 years and formulated my own feed and does my own entire vet work.

My record in Sabah will be impossible to beat having won all 7 cup races straight for 3 consecutive years. During this period have breed about 200 horses. My last endurance horse was sold to Middle East for AU75, 000 3 years ago. All these are public records and can be verified.

My research BH in Miri I installed 8 cctv to monitor the birds behaviour and reactions to the different sounds, volume and aromas, speakers placements and so on. Belief me I have done everything needed achieve the best result and some more. This very successful BH has seen been sold for a lot of $$$ at least for me as far as I am concerned.

I have used from EKA wallet, ammonia, duck eggs, bird shits, LP, NP socked in sea water the lot. The best result is oil extracted from the gland of civet cat but at last where to find so much civet cat glands?? I found my home made aroma formulated by Pak Han to be satisfactory. Since I was privileged to use H3N1 since the trial 2 yrs ago I have not look back. It is convenience to use and the smell lingers for a long time. All the BH I built (10 this year) is enjoying good result while my neighbour is a distance away. The only problem now is I have to pay for them and gladly do so for the result that I am getting.

Like horse breeding you use your used farm cloth to clean and wipe the foul at birth especially around the nose and head. This is call “IMPRINTING”. The foul will grow up to be very tame and can be handled before breaking in. The same here with swiftlets and the continuous spray every 15 mins between 3 pm to 7 pm and H3N1 sprayed every two weeks directly on to the nesting planks. This practice I belief will imprint into the swiftlets homing instinct and hopefully don’t loss them to your neighbour and maybe pull their birds to your BH.

I doubt that there will be any takers for the aroma challenge. I do not know you and coolandy personally and belief you are sincere. I will send 2 cans of H3N1 to both of you FOC to be sprayed on the unoccupied corners of your BH and after 3 months just give all of us your honours findings. Of cause our representative will detects where you use the aroma. Spraying on NP nearest to the LMB with bright light is a wasted exercise.

Let me know your locations and your address and thanks for support.

Merry Christmas.

Wow, this must be my Christmas present. Thank you. Very informative.

Firstly, I have access to civets, several species of civets. I will definitely look into that. I assume that my first candidate will be the 'Pandan' civet being the strongest smelling or the larger ring tailed civet which smells like a rubbish dump ; )

Smell imprinting has been used in the breeding of many types of animals and I use a similar method as I breed hunting dogs. This is of course why Salmon return to their place of hatching.

Yes, I do believe that with imprinting, the fledged swiftlets will likely return to the place of origin, which is also the reason why these birds initially return to roost next to their parents. I will have to ask Cranbrook when I have the chance.

We are of course discussing a smell that ATTRACTS A.Fuciphagus and if by imprinting with a certain smell which also attracts the A.Fuciphagus, we are definitely into a good thing. That makes sense! I will definitely make an unbiased report. Your representative is also welcome to inspect my location before and after for verification.

I am in South Kedah, who is your nearest representative ? I'll PM you my address.

I assume that you are a Vet. , that is very interesting. I had a vet friend who was with the Penang Turf Club who then moved to the National Stud Farm in Tg. Rambutan but since then lost contact.

Thank you again, this subject is moving forward at a very exciting pace !

A Happy New Year to everyone.

No I am not a vet but a psychiatric Nurse by training. Served out my Govt. contract and became a self made bussinesman in Logistics, Property Delopements.

I think you are refering to Dr. Ho . He have since left the NSF and gone to China dealing in Gas Business.

I used to hunt a lot and train German short hair pointer and staffordshire bull terrier x bule heeler and use as pig dogs.

Jim Lee will be our nearest contact base in K.T.

Oh...H4N1 team is base in K.T. ? I don't mind my BH in K.T. to be used as the test site and will post all the pictures of before and after here in this thread.

Hi sorry we are not interested to put our product to be tested.

We have been testing them in more then 15 of our group's BH in E. Malaysia and 4 BH in K.T. for almost 2 years . We know the result and we don't have to prove anything.

We mearly have the courage to put our product for demo and not test. kaput ?? We don't need H4N1 , H3N1 will do for now.

I have yet to be contacted by any teams sponsoring aroma.

We will work together to formulate the objectives and guidelines. I assure you all of my fullest cooperation. I prefer to do the test but if someone else is interested, it is acceptable to me if certain conditions are met.

Happy New Year 2011 to all.

Wow, this is definitely getting interesting!
Sensory imprinting!
Other than smell, anyone has any inkling of sight imprinting?
I asked cos' I was told by a fren who visited the BH of 1 of the Sitiawan pioneers...and this pioneer swears by hanging items at the passage way out the LMB.... his reasoning points to the subject we are on now...imprinting.
..if it's scent imprinting by the aroma, shouldn't it then only be beneficial in keeping what's already resident in that particular BH?
And...just thinking aloud...also can work in reverse and have dire consequences....say your BH already smell in a particular way...and one introduces an aroma..will not the resident birds find that unfamiliar and fly away to go seek a familiar smell in someone else's BH?
Key words I picked up are 'glands' 'secretions' ....are we talking pheromones?

Hi All,

I am not interested with aroma competition as mentioned in this forum.

Take care of your own BH and do the best for your own BH because every BH is UNIQUE.

Good Luck. Happy New Year and PEACE

This post has been edited by henmulia: Dec 28 2010, 02:55 AM

Subject: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!

 
Merry Christmas

&
Happy New Year to you and your family!

 

 



Best regards.                                                                    Queck

This post has been edited by htqueck: Dec 28 2010, 05:33 AM

Pak Hen,

You are a true gentleman, very knowledgeable and humble.

Wish you success and good health always.

guys, how do u people maintain your chicken coop humidifier? i got a broken unit. Dont know how to repair it.