With due respect to Benchai, HM and the rest, it's never the intention of Coolandy to promote this Aroma challenge for himself but that for the benefit of the newbizs, they need to know the REAL One from the fake. A picture do tell alot of tales but are the stories in the picture the true pictures or just a makeup tales to tell. With the latest technology, anything can happened , just like one day, my wife brought back a photo album with her photos and all look like film star ( luckily my wife doesn't use computer other than viewing 4D and ToTo), and I told her that if the pciture is her, I will remarry her again and but mind you, my wife doesn't look bad and ifact very beautiful then.......30 years ago hahahahha.

Jokes aside, I rather wish if Aroma suppliers can come up with sampling small bottle for testing ......I am not asking for Free but will not be taxing for the newbiz. As I understand and knew for the facts that Coolandy definately don't need the Aroma as he has alot of Big White Beautiful Nest to be proud off and he is just offering his services back to the industry to help I may say to the new comers and the failure . Coolandy, I salute you for such good gesture and contribution to the improvement of the industry as a whole. If we find a solution which really work, then our dream and that of the nation will become a reality.

I have heard of BHs having no or tens of nests after afew years and I truly and honestly do feel sad for them. Hopefully, this forum can bring them better luck and future.

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Added on December 28, 2010, 10:56 amI have already posted on this forum on what went wrong and how. Phone me up if you still cannot lah. Very simple and easy ....need not expert like TF or the rest, OM like me also can but always no time to repair only.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 28 2010, 02:33 PM

Forum like Low Yatt is the best platform to function as 'self-regulatory body' to monitor new products, consultants, trainers, gurus etc.

Even professional have regulatory bodies like Sirim, BEM, PAM, Bar Council, to certify, regulate, monitor, share info etc.

If a teacher/guru dare to just put a mark here in the forum to acknowledge their presence already earn them a huge credit. Dare to put their head on the shooting board as readers/forumers are the judges. Where are our 1Malaysia Boleh bloggers?! Dare not even say 'hi' in Low Yatt?

Ok, swiflet industry may be not up to mark yet. Any Tom, Tick and Hairy also can claim to be professional gurus with no professional liability or indemnity ie I-say-only, do it at your own risk. But when you look at their charges, wow, even professional wouldn't dare to ask for tat amount for a day tok kok or an hour kok at the kopitiam.

Yup, forum is the best judge. Bloggers can claim till heaven knows of their wonder skills/products/magix touch. But where is the proof? At least before/after photos or CCTV video over couple of months lah as proof. Not just Youtube showing swiftlets flying around, in/out and never stay.

Currently, many self-proclaimed sifus are making an ass out of thousands of investors who are still waiting to turn around their fail investment. Oh boy, 70-80% failure/slow rate out of >100,000 bhs around the country. Con-sultant fatt lah. >70k-80k Bhs to be treated in the country, each one just donate $1k to their pocket, you can image better to be a NATO than a breeder anytime.

Mois,
Try to open up the cover and replace the capacitor @ 6µf, the black colour one. single phase motor will need to work with capacitor.

This post has been edited by philipbn: Dec 28 2010, 06:28 PM

"Take care of your own BH and do the best for your own BH because every BH is UNIQUE."

At least someone did agreed with me when I mentioned here @ forum that every BH is different on its own and there are no 2 identical BH even if there just next door.....so to be a true consultant for the BH, the consultant need to be there to clearly understand the BH and to rectified it. What good for my BH may not have the same effect for another one but at least, it would still not bad or even better the original one ........and maybe need alittle modification to make it better. Same problem @ BH but sometime different approach or remedy to solve so for new biz, you must be patient.

Like increment of birdnests, first year, maybe slow but then, the next 6 months may see a jump of double Q nests. Always be positive in thinking. No over night success in BH; if you wanna such instant success, go up to Genting with me and you may be instant millionaire.

Like a guy @ my town who has a BH, 0 nest for the first 2 years and one day he came to me and seek advice and ask me to be his consultant. Instate, I introduced my friend (consultant) to him and went to his BH with the consultant to check out his BH and all these 2 years wasted due to a failure of the entrance hole which was rectified by the consultant for RM30K ( I won't pay RM10K for such simple job) but then the result was good and since then, the guy is one of my very good friend as the next 2 years bring him about 1 K nests each harvest and at least he would be getting his money back in no time. As we are talking, he has started his second BH, now a smarter man and wiser now, he need no consultant but a friend like me to give him suggestion only and all FOC.

The moral of the story is that sometime, it's the very small thing that make the difference between success and failure and friends may help you to see what you missed out like " Excuse me, your zip is showing" Hope it help newbiz but then again I still talk too much.

Yes, Dr. Ho B. C. used to go fishing with us when he was in Penang.

I still hunt alot, at least once a week, for wild boars. I use beagles and beagle crosses. Others might laugh at me but I always urinate near the pups soon after they are born as well as wipe them with a cloth that has remained in my kennels for several years. Beagles as you know, have good noses and follow their noses stubbornly, seemingly forever but with this treatment, they will always return to us.

I had tried pitbulls and pitbull x local x 3 generations and yet they retain their tenacity so much so they often get killed by the boars. Also tried Doberman x local which performs very well until they get gored as they tend to be more clumsy besides being brave.

Very interesting people we have in this forum. I'm only just getting to know a little of you guys.

That's the beauty of an open forum. You encounter people from all cross-sections of life. There are so many hidden talented people amongst us.

For the Aroma Challenge, it seems that there will be no takers. I thought that through an open forum, many ideas will be generated and something conclusive can come out of this. The next course of action is uncertain. Doing it privately has less fun and credibility than involving more members.

Any chemical scent secreted by animal, insect or plant is a pheromone. All of us posses it and can detect it but sometimes in some species, as in man, the reaction to such is perhaps very much subdued.

In humans, though we may not consciously know realise it, a man can often detect a female human ovulating ! This happens all the time in the animal, insect and plant kingdom and is a principle form of communication.

Makers of perfumes use this knowledge to make their products effective, so if a man goes crazy after smelling a girl wearing a suitable perfume, blame it on the perfume manufacturer !

Perfume manufacturers us plant, animal and insect extracts to produce their highly secretive scents for humans and hopefully we can emulate their success with our relatively simple means to attract swiftlets.

I have always wondered how a particular swiftlet pair accurately finds it's own roost amongst so many corners of nesting planks which brings me to think perhaps that they find it from their own scent or their partners, left there from the first time. More observation and trials have to be done for a solid conclusion. This makes greater sense than the bird memorizing the location. Which brings me to the fact that all animals, including man can identify their offsprings from smell, other than sight.

This is a new train of thought for me but probably nothing new for all the other learned forumers.

Thus the extraction from their feathers... left from preening themselves! very clever indeed.
...I believe it's a combination of at least 2 of their senses..sight & smell.
How else can you explain that they do not make mistakes when there are multiple floors & BHs to choose from?
The scent would not have carried so far?

I tend to believe scent works in more than imprinting the young.
If it brings in new fledged ones (as some claim), there's something else at play.
If only someone will start nailing used sanitary napkins on their NP for a test

A dog can smell a b**** on heat no less than 500m with no wind and of course much further downwind.

Moths apparently can detect it several miles away.

Used pads probably will only attract flies but panties from about 5 days later will have your BH surrounded by young virile males ! Now why would Jap men pay so much for such personal items ?

I'm going to work on the civet as that smell is so very overpowering, difficult to describe but much like 'pandan' yet animal musky and lingering. Detect it as soon as one walks by even some distance away. Some smells are specifically attractive to different animals and they may have hit the nail on the head.

To extract the oil from dropped feathers will entail a lot of feathers and much work washing the bird feces off, dissolving and then perhaps distilling the oils off. Makes sense as it'll immediately provide the whole BH with a genuine C. Fuciphagus scent. That would be much better than ammonia, wet droppings, etc.

I'm looking forward to a sleepless night dreaming of wonderful scents.

That's I need to know, so many questions in my tiny brain need some answer from young scientists @ the forum.

1. How to extract swiftlet's oil from the feathers ......by boiling ??

2. Is the oil extracted provide any significant to the increment of the nests?

3. Will the feathers' oil from a dead or dying birds having negative effect on the increment of birds? Why did I ask this as we are aware that dying rat excrete urine to warn other rats of the danger of the trap and that's why we need to properly clean the rat trap after each successful catch. Like using rat glue, I will burn the glue to cover the smell of the urine if any left after washing.

4. Which birds feathers do we use males or females and how do we know if the feathers found to be males or females? Don't tell me that we need to get it from the living birds!!!!!

4. Thanks for the input and I learn alot of science here even learning how to breed dogs to remember returning back to me... as I have a dog who always go missing and need to search for him....difficult as M dog always go missing in search of B*** luckily, we human has lose this instinct or else all ladies better watch out as we are on the prowl............seeking out which lady on heat...hahahaha sori- once a joker, always a joker.

A Practical and Scientific Guide to Successful Swiftlet Farming

Chapter 3 Breeding Biology of Aerodramus fuciphagus


In general in animals that practice polyandry (Polyandry is a type of mating system where females mate with more than one male during a breeding season; having more than one husband at the same time), the females will secrete a type of chemicals called pheromones when they are fertile. The pheromones will cause the males to go into a mating frenzy. Males will go on for days on end without food, fighting with other males for the right to mate with the female.

The majority of pheromones are very species-specific, that is, it only attracts the male of the same species. However, in this amazing world, there are known cases where pheromones of one species attract the males of another species. Some orchids release pheromones that manage to fool bees to mate with their flowers and help in pollination.

Birds have a good olfactory system (sense of smell) but their main mating attractors are sound and visual displays by the males. Little research has been conducted into whether the females secrete pheromones.

Most birds have a uropygidial gland at the base of the tail which secretes oil used in preening the feathers. Other secretory glands are the sebaceous and anal glands. If pheromones are ever present at all, it is most likely to be produced from those glands.


3.1 Pheromones in Swiftlet Farming.
Aerodramus fuciphagus are monogamus and paired for life. Two eggs are laid per clutch and going by the norms in the avian world, it is safe to conclude that one is female and the other male. Though monogamous, they do commonly engage in extra-pair copulation or spouse cheating but this behavior is not thought to be connected to pheromones.

In fact there are no known monogamous animals that use pheromones to attract their mates.

3.2 Artificial Solutions in Swiftlet Farming
Attempts have been made by many swiftlet farmers to simulate the smell of caves or successful farms to attract swiftlets by the application of various formulations. The solutions are normally filtered fermented liquid from a concoction of blended bird nests, seaweeds and albumin of duck eggs. Some preservatives like sodium benzoate are also added to extend the shelf-life.

Ammonium bicarbonate solutions which release ammonia gas are also used frequently. This method is not recommended because high concentration of ammonia gas is a health hazard.

There are also portions made from the distillation of swiftlet feathers and bird droppings. If pheromones plays a role in the mating behavior of swiftlets, this method has the most probability of success.

A lot of experiments and double-blind tests must be carried out before any claims can be made to the efficacy of the solutions. Repeatability must be a common denomination for making those claims. As it is, many farmers have spent a lot of money on the portions with dubious success.

The most common method to create the right aroma for the BH is the copious application of fresh bird droppings. If pheromones are present in the anal glands, then this method should be one of the most cost effective in attracting birds and has been widely adopted by bird farmers.

In some cases, the droppings are soaked in water inside containers. The resultant smell from this method is very pungent. Though smelly to humans, the birds seem to like it.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************


Above is part of a section I have written for my book. It is still in the draft stage. Don't know when it will be completed. I will elaborate a little further below.

Swiftlets spent a lot of time playing in the rain. Their ability to do so without soiling their feathers is because their feathers are extremely water-resistant. So are many species of ducks. Chicken feathers are less waterproof.

From CCTV footages, Afs are seldom seen to preen their feathers. How do their feathers become so water-resistant?

Extracting oils from the feathers will involve distillation. It is not rocket science though those without basic chemistry knowledge will find this challenge daunting. The apparatus involved can be bought openly in the open market and a competent science student (SPM level) should be able to do it. The feathers will have to be soaked in a mild alcohol (methanol, ethanol) solution to dissolve the oils. After filtering out the detritus, the remaining solution is distilled and the distillate will contain the oils needed though the quantity will be very little.

How effective will the oils be in attracting swiftlets?

As mentioned above, the anal glands also secrete chemicals! You can also distill the solution from the bird droppings and see if the resulting distillate will attract the birds? Successful BHs has a certain smell. It is kind of sweet, not the pungent type associated with “rotten” bird droppings. Sometimes, I wish I were a dog so that I can identify the different type of smells present in a successful BH.

My take on the aroma thingy is that it will not make the birds go into a mating frenzy. To provide a comfortable environment that smells good to the birds is possible and will need to be tested.

There you go my friends. Just my little contribution, I hope. If I am wrong, you all are welcome to comment. Absolutely no hard feelings.

WW, you should give your dog more freedom to spread it's genes.

Just my 2 sen.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Dec 29 2010, 11:46 AM

hi pak west

my bh 1.5 year old

got 150 bird stay, sometimes maksimum 200 bird.

got 33 nest last month(November) increase to 57 nest in December within one month, is it ok?good rate?

i am wonder why suddently increase within 1 month, but i am feel sad last first year so so so so slow the increament just total 8 nest only.

can u give me some advice ,why come like that.thanks

This post has been edited by sosos: Dec 29 2010, 10:45 AM

That month is the start of the breeding season. Out of every 4 months only about 1 month is the start of the breeding season and you will see an explosion in nests. The other 3 months will have a much slower growth rate.

You BH can be considered ok.

Just my 2 sen. Surely WW can elaborate further.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Dec 29 2010, 10:52 AM

Unc WW,
Very good Qs.
3. Will the feathers' oil from a dead or dying birds having negative effect on the increment of birds
That too was my reaction to Ben's sharing abt civet's secretion.
Aren't civets a natural enemy of AF?
Then we have Coolandy's sharing that there are cross specie effect.
....civet cats are the flowers and AF the bees (in Coolandy's sharing)?

4. Which birds feathers do we use males or females and how do we know if the feathers found to be males or females?
That will be a problem if the feathers used for extraction are dropped ones...not that I am advocating otherwise.
Even if they can be isolated & their oil extracted, applying 1 will ONLY attract the opposite sex, not both!
If one do not isolate the feathers by sex, will it end up attracting ONLY bi-sexual AFs?

Coolandy, good effort on your proposed book.
"Out of every 4 months only about 1 month is the start of the breeding season and you will see an explosion in nests"
Just thinking alound..
Is this triggered by production of the male or female (or both) sex pheromones?
This Qs ties in with WW's Q4.

Hi Pak Ben, I've talked to Julia Ho about the ownership of land title by west Malaysian in Sarawak as suggested. Visited sites and your group's BH in Sarawak. To me, It is really eye-opening to see BH development is starting to shift into high gear in Sarawak and the result from your group's BH after all the talks and promotions about the product at the seminar and forum. Salute to your group for being unselfish to share knowledge beside birds sounds. Wish you all a very Happy New Year!

I wonder if civets are a natural enemies of AF as civets will never be able to up to these nests unless we provide them with the foot holds. I don't think BH swiftlets would come into any natural contact with civets. Besides, most civets feed on fruit only sometimes opportunistically on eggs and meat.

AF will always pluck their own feathers before they start making nests so these should be safe. Feathers from stressed birds or dead birds perhaps should be avoided as we do not yet understand the mechanism.

What difference would male or female feathers are to be used as those from males will attract the females and vice versa, if such an mechanism is true. I quite often see the birds preening themselves via cctv.

There are so very many different pheromones produced by an animal and we know very little about it. Pheromones are event specific and rats definitely produce a certain type under stressed death, others to mark their territory or even when they are ready to mate.

Some enterprising boar hunters use the urine and extract from the vagina of domestic pigs when in estrus to attract wild boars. This liquid when applied to tracks leading to a tree stand(hideout) is so successful that it is possible to bag more than 5 boars every night for several days. The horny males will come, even stepping around the carcass of their dead buddies, only to suffer the same fate.

I think the AF breeding season starts due to the prevailing weather conditions such as the onset of the ending of the monsoon season is a time when there will be plentiful food to feed their offsprings with. In the West coast of Pen Malaysia, there is no 'breeding season' eggs are laid as soon as the birds have flown, sometimes even with the young ones hanging on to the side. I've seen nest making 3 cycles in 12 months and so quick at it that I never had a chance to remove the nest.

I would encourage everyone to jump into this discussion as any little bit of information might be very useful. There is no question or opinion that can be considered irrelevant or silly for we are all here to learn.

AFs have this multi-brood character. It will try to breed as often as possible. This character is often exploited by man where the nests are removed before the eggs are laid, or nests removed with eggs and the birds will make a new nest and lay eggs as soon as possible.

The whole cycle takes a bout 4 months if left undisturbed and with the right conditions. From my shallow knowledge, there are birds that breeds seasonally and there are those that breed throughout the year. The timing can be altered slightly due to various reasons.

Tuckfook, the use of "vaginal extracts" from domesticated pigs during your wild boar hunt demonstrates the power of pheromones. How I wish we could have this for Afs?

Another 2 sen from me. If wrong, sorrylah.



This post has been edited by coolandy: Dec 29 2010, 10:19 PM

Thank you for the compliments. I was in Kuching harvesting with my partner Prof. Andy Yap. Should I know that you are in Kuching would love to buy you dinner. Spoke to Julia today before departing foe Miri.

All those BH are mostly design by me and built by Yap and Calvin in Kuching as I am fully occupied in KK. All BH endorsed by Pak Han and Sounds and commissioned by Pak Han. Jim Lee and Justin Tan will come and met up with us on PHM visit and we criticize our own work this enable us to keep improving our design and technic

.In this now such a competitive environment and at times hostile and envious smalltimers , we need that small edge to stay on the top. Our books are full I wonder why.??? Thanks to Pak Han and our group support . 6 heads is better then one.

We enjoy what we do and get paid handsomely for our effort .

Anyone given any thoughts about the effect of EMF (electromagnetic field) on the breeding cycle of Afs? Are there more birds willing to breed near it with the right conditions of such BH? If proved true and it is not hazardous to health, wish we could have this for Afs too.

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Added on December 30, 2010, 12:08 amI do have big issue with the design of roving area from your group and 3 BHs so far I've visited. I feel that we really must have the edge as you said to pull the birds into nesting room on all floors with pulling sound but Pak Hen doesn't sell its pulling and any other sounds.

This post has been edited by swift4ever: Dec 30 2010, 12:20 AM

All,
Received an email alert.... that there's some negative development in Png with regards to heritage BHs.
Appreciate someone translate the GuangMing article & post here?
thks in advance


This post has been edited by Cergau: Dec 30 2010, 01:34 AM