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 V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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TSseeseng
post May 9 2010, 10:55 AM, updated 13y ago

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From: KayTee of BolehLand 2nd Class Citizen


Thanks to all fellow contributors of thoughts at our V2 thread. Hope this V3 thread continue to be one of the most read swiftlet discussion forum around. The forum to discuss and alert all fellow ranchers about any problem arise in this industry. Sharing of DIY techniques, methods are welcome.


Some links regarding swiftlet farming:
Kong Heng Swiftlets Equipments Supply
Nest Tech Equipment Technology
Ming-Yan.com
Nest Talk Consultation Service
Crystal Swiftlets
Klub Peternak Walet - Indonesia
aerodramus.com
Yahoo Discussion Group

Blogs regarding swiftlet farming:
CATATAN HENMILIA

Swiftlet Farming : an Addictive Hobby & Multi-Million Dollar Business
Johan Walet.com
GMYS ENTERPRISE-Menjual Peralatan Memancing Burung Walet
Swallow Bird Nest Indonesia
燕农天地与燕屋管理 (swiftlet farming & management)
World of Swiftlet Farming

Proceeded from V1 http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/431781/+2420

V2 Thread

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 9 2010, 11:50 PM
aeiou228
post May 9 2010, 11:46 AM

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Wow.... V3 already.

But Seeseng, I've just noticed that some threads like this no need to create new thread even already exceeded 200 pages.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: May 9 2010, 11:53 AM
West Wing
post May 9 2010, 12:10 PM

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Dear Cergau,

Below message is what you are asking for and I really appreciate all concerned for the input @forum for all to share and for us to forward to relevant authorities unlike many people who will just keep quite and then curse when thing gone bad.

Shabas, you all are truly " Knights of the Swiftlets ".

Mesage to me are:

We are having our PPSB Exco Emergency Meeting on the 11th to discuss the Bill
and will have appointment to meet Datuk Sri Chua Soi Lek the next day.
Will keep you inform, if you have any information, please kindly pass to us.

Thank you.

Dato Beh


Time: 3pm (Tuesday) @ Sunway......... From the letter concerned, we do understand that Dato Beh is also concerned about the situation and that all new information can also be email to him. Better speak and act now. Ask not what other has done if you haven't help yourself.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 9 2010, 12:38 PM
Bujuk
post May 9 2010, 12:38 PM

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Wa... already V3. Just finished V1 last week. so much to read.
anyway I really enjoy reading all the posting except for the "heated argument". thank everybody for your contribution.

on different note, anybody know of a good shop that carry books on swiftlet farming. preferably in Kuantan area.
Cergau
post May 9 2010, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(tuckfook @ May 8 2010, 11:05 PM)
The Cave swiftlets can remain on the protected list and therefore their nests, which will then require the relevant licenses and permits.
*
The Bill in question applies to Pen M'sia and Labuan only.
Cave swiftlets are more a feature in East Malaysia as such it's irrelevant thus appropriate the licensing clause be made specific to protected and totally protected birds nests.
Swiftlets in Pen M'sia is quoted as non limestone cave dwelling except in sea caves.
I quote "However in Peninsula Malaysia, edible nest swiftlets don't seem to roost in limestone caves, though they do use sea caves."
I have yet to sight any writeups (except the brief mention above) on the subject of Pen M'sia sea cave swiftlets.
I would hesitate to advocate protection of sea cave swiftlets on such a basis.

There's a hyperlink on my quotation above.
Just learnt to use it watching aeiou228 use the (http://) Code button biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 9 2010, 03:11 PM
West Wing
post May 9 2010, 04:16 PM

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It was never a rich man biz in BH as unlike human being, swiftlets are not so choosy that they will go only for the 5-stars birdhouse as I found that one of my friend started out doing it small...just a 15 feets by 20 feets single floor BH in the middle of his small few acre oil palm land. Now, his tiny BH has about a few kilo of nests each harvest and now, he can afford to build another slightly larger BH few meters away. Only in swiftlets can one can find fortune without going to crime.

So, instead of having idle land around, just build a simple House for the birds and who know, you may be a lucky winner, too.
Sham903n
post May 9 2010, 06:51 PM

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congratz on reaching V3, Its been along time since I left pursuing this endevour.. but I guess by end of year.. I will be having 1 built from scratch.. I really like the links on Pak Hen blog, its been a few years since I met him, he's very knowledgable & full of wisdom, low down to earth guy.. I still remember he said each RBW has its own way to build, always think like the bird.. and never make it hard for them to live in. Its just too bad that some individual here in Malaysia try to capitalize from him.. good luck on V3
hackwire
post May 9 2010, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ May 9 2010, 12:10 PM)
Dear Cergau,

Below message is what you are asking for and I really appreciate all concerned for the input @forum for all to share and for us to forward to relevant authorities unlike many people who will just keep quite and then curse when thing gone bad.

Shabas, you all are truly " Knights of the Swiftlets ".

Mesage to me are:

We are having our PPSB Exco Emergency Meeting on the 11th to discuss the Bill
and will have appointment to meet Datuk Sri Chua Soi Lek the next day.
Will keep you inform, if you have any information, please kindly pass to us.

Thank you.

Dato Beh


Time: 3pm (Tuesday) @ Sunway......... From the letter concerned, we do understand that Dato Beh is also concerned about the situation and that all new information can also be email to him. Better speak and act now. Ask not what other has done if you haven't help yourself.
*
Good ! Good!!

Im happy to say that this low yat forum had also contributed to this event through some of you people and honestly i get my dose of swiftlet in here rather than other forums and facebook etc.... The reason is because of some mavericks behind the cloak that were actually professionals . there's no better place to find these people who knows what they are doing.

Same thing goes to those mavericks who sat behind the round table to draft out wildlife acts, 1GP and other laws they intent to get approval from the parliament. The enemies work have to be stop as their plan or hidden agenda that we all don't know. I assume they are also professional who are very closely link to the industry and also knowledgeable in the law aspect and also the financial aspect of the industry.

There will be a catastrophe in the end. The judgement day will come.

The enemies will find it hard to swallow their long time planning gone into the drain and wasted. Someone got to be responsible for it . Tax payer money goes to people who wasted so much time plotting out the stupid idea when more major things are not in their interest like the animals who had lost their home due to destruction of the forest in sabah and sarawak. when birds have no more place to live due to cutting off hills and limestone caves, they didn't address this problem and fine the people behind who destroys the birds and animal home..


Bujuk
post May 10 2010, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(PandanKia @ May 9 2010, 03:47 PM)
rich man biz
*
totally disagree with you. we should focus on the main objective not on the problem that we are facing. all the associated problems are just the "challenges" that we need to face. there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak. that is the main reason why we need forums, friends and networks. people around you can help you (through ideas sharing) face the "challenges".

globalexm
post May 10 2010, 11:26 AM

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From: Pejabat - Kelantan, Senawang & Batu Caves

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

KUMPULAN PEDAGANG/PENGUSAHA SARANG BURUNG WALIT/WALET MALAYSIA/INDONESIA

TUJUAN KUMPULAN INI DI WUJUDKAN:

1. Mewujudkan Kerjasama di antara semua Pengusaha, Pedagang sarang burung & Pemilik rumah burung walit / walet di seluruh Malaysia & Indonesia

2. Membincangkan tentang masalah Pengeluaran & Pasaran sarang burung walit / walet bg semua pengusaha.

3.Saling bantu membantu dan berbincang antara semua pedagang, pemilik rumah burung walit / walet tentang apa sahaja masalah yang sedang dihadapi dari semua sudut perundangan & penguatkuasaaan.

4. Berkongsi-kongsi Maklumat & Idea berkenaan Teknologi dan Rekabentuk Rumah Burung Walit / walet yang termoden dan Terkini. Serta Aktivi yg Melibatkan INdustri Sarang Burung Walit / Walet

Golongan Sasaran:

- Ahli Persatuan Pedagang & Pengusaha Sarang Burung Walit / Walet Seluruh Malaysia / Indonesia

- Ahli Persatuan Pemilik Rumah Burung Walit / Walet Seluruh Malaysia / Indonesia

- Pengusaha, Pemilik Rumah Walit & Pedagang Sarang Burung Walit / Walet

- Perunding (Consultant) Industri Sarang Burung Walit / walet.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf


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West Wing
post May 10 2010, 12:27 PM

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Onr way to teach those BH owners that refused to follow certain simple rules and regulations is to allow the Local Authorities or the Local Association to unplug the fuse from the main electricity incoming line provided that they have the permission from the Police to do so.

We must admit that there are afew black sheep among us and that we are not all law bidding and peace loving. Those few uncooperative ones must be taught a lesson or else other will follow......like the problem caused by the midnight cowboys ( motorcycles racers) causing so much sleepless nights/accidents and now, those youngsters have resort to stealing or robbing unsuspected victims in the middle of the nights to get money to support their nightly activities.

If the Police has taken action in the bud, there will not be the present situation where those youngsters have to be shot to stop them and who will be responsible; the Police !!!!!

By the way, how to stop a fast running motorcyclist bearing false numberplate and having no driving license and infact most of these parents know what their sons are doing and these parents should also be lock up.

Coming back to BHs, better we prevent those few black ones from causing damages to our friendship and understanding with the neighbours, lest we end up victims due to the fault of a few selfish ones......must send them photos of "Mukah Incident" to remind them of what would happened to them if they don't cooperate.
Cergau
post May 10 2010, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ May 10 2010, 12:27 PM)
Onr way to teach those BH owners that refused to follow certain simple rules and regulations is to allow the Local Authorities or the Local Association to unplug the fuse from the main electricity incoming line provided that they have the permission from the Police to do so.

We must admit that there are afew black sheep among us and that we are not all law bidding and peace loving. Those few uncooperative ones must be taught a lesson or else other will follow......like the problem caused by the midnight cowboys ( motorcycles racers) causing so much sleepless nights/accidents and now, those youngsters have resort to stealing or robbing unsuspected victims in the middle of the nights to get money to support their nightly activities.

If the Police has taken action in the bud, there will not be the present situation where those youngsters have to be shot to stop them and who will be responsible; the Police !!!!! 

By the way, how to stop a fast running motorcyclist bearing false numberplate and having no driving license and infact most of these parents know what their sons are doing and these parents should also be lock up.

Coming back to BHs, better we prevent those few black ones from causing damages to our friendship and understanding with the neighbours, lest we end up victims due to the fault of a few selfish ones......must send them photos of "Mukah Incident" to remind them of what would happened to them if they don't cooperate.
*
I doubt PBTs have sufficient authority to deal with electricity supply, s/b under TNB (I may be wrong).
However if they invoke their usual protection given them where they can do no wrong.
They can drop a heavy ladder over yr electricity supply cable to snap it and say Ooops Sorry.
There's nothing you can do abt it unless you can 'read minds' and prove in court that the action was with ill intent and insufficient care has been taken.
Sure you can sue them but you will lose.
(They are above royalty in this sense.)

Delinquent operators....
Will folks who do not care abt their human neighbors give two hoots to dead birds?
htc
post May 10 2010, 01:45 PM

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what if they are on wind or solar energy?
hackwire
post May 10 2010, 02:30 PM

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101 book of How to Deal with Stubborn People
101 book of How to Create Attention to the Ignorant People .

There are two types here.
The stubborn - He knew it but not doing anything.
The Ignorant - He is pure ignorant because his main business is elsewhere.

Stubborn - Poor,Struggling to make money at all cost.
Ignorant - Rich, Not struggling but have money to solve the problem

Stubborn - will repeat the mistake after authority gone
Ignorant - anything happen, not his liability.

Stubborn - don't care, do what he think its right.
Ignorant - decision evaluated base on financial report.

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 10 2010, 02:32 PM
Cergau
post May 10 2010, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(htc @ May 10 2010, 01:45 PM)
what if they are on wind or solar energy?
*
a ladder can do quite a bit of damage to yr solar panels or yr wind turbine blades to put them out of action?
a can of spilled paint will also take care of solar film-type if you happen to use them?
"Sandar tangga sini sekejap, mahu cat-lah, ada karat" Ooops Sorry!
biggrin.gif
htc
post May 10 2010, 03:13 PM

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one who installs his solar panel at ground level is asking for trouble. perhaps his BH is constructed underground!

roof top mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by htc: May 10 2010, 03:24 PM
Cergau
post May 10 2010, 03:18 PM

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All,
Got good news and bad news from a forwarded email (below).
My interpretations are
Good News
AF is not protected (thru Clarification of "spp." in First Schedule)
Bad News
Birds' nest collection is under Perhilitan, so 'kena lesen' as stipulated in the Bill (or Act once passed by Parliament)
(thru clarification of definition of wildlife)
Not sure but likely good news
Other licenses for buying, export, re-export, my reading? only for protected species

Confirmation from Perhilitan with further clarification
Thanks for your keen interest on the proposed new Wildlife Conservation Bill 2010.
· To the first isu..
o The definition of ‘wildlife’ is refer to all wild animals and wild birds which is also include ‘totally protected’, ‘protected’ and the ‘un-protected’.... This mean, the meaning of wildlife in this Bill does not confine to only totally protected and protected wildlife.
o My earlier explanation was on the context of what listed as ‘totally protected wildlife’ and ‘protected wildlife’ in the Act itself. I’m sorry if my explanation was not clear.

· And for the second isu..
o Yes, the statement as your understanding is as what I have explain.


Initial understanding after discussion with Perhilitan as sent for confirmation
Clause 3
“wildlife” means any species of wild animal or wild bird,
whether totally protected or protected, vertebrate or invertebrate,
live or dead, mature or immature and whether or not may be
tamed or bred in captivity;
Clarification
The definition of 'wildlife' applies and confined to only 'totally protected' and 'protected' as defined in the Bill and no other.
ie it does not apply to the hypothetical category (excluding totally protected and protected as defined in the Bill) of 'UN-protected'.

FIRST SCHEDULE
[section 3]
PROTECTED WILDLIFE
Interpretation of the First Schedule
1. Species included in this Schedule are referred to—
(a) by the name of the species; or
(b) as being all of the species included in a higher taxon or designated
part thereof.
2. The abbreviation “spp.” is used to denote all species of a higher taxon.
Clarification
Statement 2 is an emphasis of statement 1(b) and are both to be read together to mean
as being all of the species included in a higher taxon or designated
part thereof when so denoted by the abbreviation "spp."
ie when a unique specie is denoted it is then limited to specie as denoted whilst
when a higher taxon is denoted with "spp," it is limited to all specie below such taxon as denoted as the case may be.


Cergau
post May 10 2010, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(htc @ May 10 2010, 03:13 PM)
one who installs his solar panel is asking for trouble. perhaps his BH is constructed underground!

roof top mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*
if the Wildlife Bill is a guide for things to come...
they have legal access to anywhere! with or w/o warrant.
I doubt the dark forces will go to such lengths for want of a submarine commission?
They too wouldnt want to kill the golden goose/swift. biggrin.gif

Cergau
post May 10 2010, 04:39 PM

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Unc WW,
Appreciate your assistance to escalate these points to the Fed Assoc for their consideration in their Exco meeting as they see fit.
Certainly there are more points than these that they may be able to highlight with their resources available.

To all sifus and readers, appreciate your comments and feedback
I suggest
Write to your MP with my suggested writeup below or write your own as you wish.
Amed/Add/Delete as you see fit if you do use this.



Dear YB ......

I write with great concern with the passage of the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010 in Parliament through the 1st reading.
While I applaud the general increase in penalties for offences under the Bill for activities negatively affecting the threatened species, there is no distinction for specie that are not threatened. With the all encompassing intent (clarified with Perhilitan) of the definition of wildlife in the Bill , all wildlife short of domesticated animals (as governed under the Animals Act); the same severe penalties are applicable.
No appreciable attempt at distinction is apparent in the Bill.
The over zealousness is compounded by the following (though not exhaustive) examples
(1)opaque licensing criteria,
(2)unreasonable conditions that impinge on trade practices,
(3)carrying of arms during enforcement activities
(4)non distinction of severity of offence (eg an expired license is treated same as a suspected poacher and criminal procedures under police custody are applicable).

(1)Licensing
Criteria for approval are variable and without prior knowlege.
There is no specific requirements for approver to provide reasons for rejections.
Additional conditions may be attached at any time at the discretion of approver.
ref (Part 3, Chapter 2, clauses 12-25)
Recommendation -
Specific provision in the Bill for approval criteria to be priorly published
Rejection reasons to be specifically provided for in the Bill for timely and appropriate appeal.

(2)Selling only to licensed purchasers.
Undesirable as it distorts the market and encourages a monopoly.
Adds to the bureaucracy and cost of production of the EBN trade (1 of 6 identified for growth) with high econmic impact as outlined in the 2010 M'sia budget.
There's sufficient authority within the Bill for enforcement without the need for additional for bureaucratic licensing especially in light of the opaque criteria as pointed out earlier.
ref (Part 4, clause 41)
Recommendation -
Clause to be removed

(3)Armed enforcement officers
Apart from actions against poachers in wildlife habitat who are more often than are armed and mobile there is little justification for arming the officers in general.
Arming officers is disproportionate to threat faced by the officers in the course of their duties.
As recent events has shown, omissions and neglect may have fatal consequences to human life.
ref (Part 2, clause 8)
Recommendation -
Specific limitation to anti poaching activities in the wild.

(4)Power of arrest to the nearest police station
Disproportionate to the offence as even failure to renew ones license will be an offence under the Act and liable to arrest and criminal procedure applicable.
ref (Part 8, clause 93)
Recommendation -
Lawyer's counsel required as to the appropriate rephrasing reflective of offence.
(Suggest Feds assoc engaged lawyer for the purpose)

Cergau
post May 10 2010, 04:49 PM

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Some more forwarded correspondence with Perhilitan
What it really mean is to include any species that are known to be wild, as for domesticated species are not included. Domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, chickens, ducks or cows are than regulated under the Animals Act. Wildlife in many ways are tame but not domesticated.
Hope this explain the two between wild and domesticated animals/birds.


For those of you curious about the Animal Act....
No,No, ..this doesn't govern the behaviour in Parliament...just that this too was passed by parliament at some point in time. biggrin.gif
Animals Act 1953

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 10 2010, 04:50 PM

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