Nice.

The argument was "Why bring a baby into the world when the parent is not ready to shoulder the increase commitment". Apart from monetary commitment, there is also other stuff to factor in. Time, environment and etc. Would you rather bring a kid in to the world knowing you cannot provide the best you can to the child in the upbringing process? Just because "sooner or later i will have a kid, let's bring the kid in sooner since it already happened".

I don't know about you or the rest of the peeps here, but for me, i value my family first. If i were to bring a child to the world, i would make sure the kid has a proper upbringing. Maybe TS is the same, i don't know and do not want to assume anything.

The cost you listed cover medical cost up to the stage of the baby born. Does it takes into account other cost? All those "what if" cost? Does it also consider TS current incured commitments? Mind you, having a house is considered a long term commitment, as it easily a 30 years repayment period. As the TS stated, would you ask him to throw away his plans to have a home for his family and a better future or have a baby now and risk an uncertain future? I don't know about you, i am liking my odds with the first option better.

You also have to think ahead a bit, cost of stuff is never stagnant, so is your salary you can argue. But, how much is your increase in salary vs spiralling cost of living? Is your increment able to cover the spiralling cost of living? For the majority of us, the answer is a definite "No". Yes, argument again can go to say, get better certification and a better paying job, again, these require forefront investment. Reward is reaped later.

I believe i have derailed from the discussion enough.


Argument goes both ways. Bringing a child into the world and making his life miserable CAN never be undone either.


This post has been edited by Madgeiser: Mar 24 2009, 11:51 AM

I always believe that when people choose to walk on certain path there will be a way and solution for them no matter how unpredict or difficult they going to face.

TS

i think i know who you are..either u r my fren..or my frenz fren

r u a WOW player?

like to go spa service last time?

what kind of spa, i also like to go spa.

u ask him lor....

agree wif 7chai...if they dun walk...i guess...they will forever at the ground they stand wif living a life that is heading miserable wif the spiralling increase cost of living...

TS, never go for abortion ok?
try to convince ur parent and her parent, if cannot, move out lor

lol most people who are for the abortion give excuse like economy not good, salary is low, not able to support child. I think everybody generally knows that already (lol drama movies can teach a lot). But TS still need to take responsibility no matter what the cause, even if he has to go to the deepest hole he can find. He did the crime, he has to pay for it. No freebies.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Mar 24 2009, 11:58 AM

FYI, during the time of my GF pregnancy, my financial status was the worst...1998 market crashed & I got pay cut & my GF (Now wife) decided to resign due to prolong sickness. I even almost get myself into bankruptcy status during this worst time of my life...can't even think of anything except how to survive on daily basis wth me alone working...

Well, luckily, luck was on my side, we managed to get through and slowly my financial problem stabilized years later....Look at the status of TS, he said he & GF hv decent jobs....well will it gets worst case scenario as me way back in late 90?

Well getting marry early hv it's advantages too. By the time your kids going to U, u are still working & will surely able to support them throughout the Uni years...I can't imagine my colleagues, married late & going to retire soon & kids still in Primary & secondary years...

This post has been edited by stimix: Mar 24 2009, 12:00 PM

he say he wont reply here edi, and i dun think is good if i PM him now and ask "ei wanna go spa ar ?"

is like, when u and my mom have the 1st children, do u think they got mother experience b4 ? of course they dun, but eventually they will learn and slowly become a good mother, and what u and my father did ? of course work even more harder to gain money, why ? because now he is no longer a no commitment dude that can always hang around with friends, now he got a baby at home which = he got a responsbility. Its actually come very natural, when u walk on it u will experience it, and the feeling i dun think i will know bout it. lol

Hope my reply is not too late...haven't been around the forums lately...

Dear TS, there is uncertainty when aborting the child and much more uncertainty in keeping the child.

I've been reading people posts here for those for abortion and those against. I for one am very against it, but I don't advise you what to do.

I will just point out some things against those who said abortion is better choice. Since economy is not stably, the cost of raising a child, getting into the real world.

I believe we truly live and live in a real world when we face up to our responsibilities. Sure their arguments are, do you know how taxing emotionally, financially, etc on both father and mother to raise a child. No doubt its taxing.

One poster said she will have to take weeks of maternity leave. I'm sorry but women in India, women in China and African don't need maternity leave. In fact, women who don't take maternity leave but carry on their normal lives, and only take 1 week off to borne her baby, turns out to have perfectly normal children.

Also, one more thing these posters going for abortion who said that its very taxing to raise a child fail to consider is that they assume that the TS and his wife are gonna do it ALL ALONE, with no financial help, no emotional help or even help to look after the baby.

Dear TS, this is a critical moment of your life. And you need as much help as you can get from anyone possible, and you know that and that is why u're here on this forums. Casting away your pride and getting help from your parents and her parents is the most responsible thing for you. Yes they may be shocked at first, but in time they will come to respect the person you are. One who steps up to meet the challenge and is not afraid to lay his pride down to ask for help to get through the toughest times.

I have some friends and people from church too who have pre marriage pregnancies. They are financially worse than you. Younger than you. Damn they even have siblings who are 14-15 yrs old who are now can be called uncles. But they are happy now, coping well. All because they have support from family, relatives and friends. The mother helps out in the situation, looks after the baby while you go to work.

Everything is so feasible to give a baby a happy childhood and a good life if you look at things from a perspective of getting the proper help and support. Yeah, posters too said, how about her mum?? If she die from shock how? Only TS and his gf know the mother's personality whether she can take it, and how to tell her best. Her reaction might even be good, and might be happy she might be getting a grandchild soon. Reassuring her that TS and gf will do things the proper way and get married can lessen the pain. WHo knows? only the TS and gf knows the mother's character and predict how she will react.

That said, there is much much more uncertainty if you decide to keep the baby. However, all these uncertainties can be made less risky with proper help and anticipation. But few things is certain if you do abort. Ur gf will be scarred emotionally and not be the same again. She may not be able to have babies anymore. You too will be hurt emotionally. And the scale of the emotional damage is very uncertain and it cannot be limited in anyway.

I hope i gave you better views to help you make your decision.

PS. I'll PM you this as well since you said you won't be coming back to read this topic.

You r taiko here and king is my sifu Jus curious who'll win Well... i can learn from your post and king's post too. haha...

I will lump both your quotes together, since you two are basically saying the same things and I have the same things to say to you too.

Personally, abortion is not a choice I would normally advocate. The difference between you and me is that I know how to be objective in giving advice, and I know how to give advice based on the person's character. The problem with you people is that you can't see pass your own values, and try to push your believes upon others. All you end up doing is guilt tripping them into an action. That is not advice, that is coercion.

What's the point of telling someone to keep the baby when they aren't ready? Why do you want to force them into it? One major reason most couples who pull through with a baby succeed, is because they believe they can. Its something they already decided to do. If the couple wavers in this decision, that will affect the quality of commitment to the decision in the future. How can you advocate such a choice?

Giving advice, is giving guidance, you have to be objective and fair with the facts. This means, you don't emotionally load your arguments, you let the facts speak for itself. Then let the couple themselves decide what is best for them, and just hope you could give them proper guidance. It is THEIR CHOICE, and THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to live with the consequence of their actions. Whichever path they choose, it comes at a price, so don't judge them just because they didn't follow your advice, be supportive either way, even if you don't agree.


I don't see how you cna compare gadgets to a baby Can you re-sell your baby for 60% of its value when you don't want it adi?

Seriously, some people just can't take the hard work necessary, and if they don't have the commitment for it, why push them for it? Would you tell a lazy dumbass to enroll in MIT? Of course not, be realistic and find what would be most efficient. If a couple don't want to take care of a baby, there's simply no reason to force them to do it. Forcing them would just lead to an unhappy life for everyone involved.

bcos of dis economic crisis...scottish gal try to take easy way out by having babies instead...lol...

the thing is, no 1 will know when is their worst time and when they are in good time they never realize. lol

Yes, indeed. they can abort it , since its their own flesh and blood. Outsiders have no rights to judge them. They're young and naive. The baby is a burden, hence to reclaim their happiness and continue the preferred lifestyle. Everybody happy.

But deep down inside, any decent humans (strangers and relative alike) would really PRAY and HOPE there are no more of these cases. And if such cases happen, the "perpetrators" must not be encouraged on to do the abortion (as if its the right decision always ).

And of course, let the remorse sets in after they turn 40, perhaps? Before that, life is an oyster to these people.

Seriously, the male is doing his spouse a BIG BIG damage to her body and mind. I hope he can cope with her depression/remorse for "killing" her child prematurely when they gets older and more mature. Who cares about his lifestyle and financial condition. maybe TS should get a course on "handling" her wife emotions and console her always if the topic regarding their "unborn baby" crops up once in a while in the near future.

This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Mar 24 2009, 12:13 PM

thats why always thinks before u do anything what is the pro and cons of it. single is aways good (no responsibility but once just get married thats where the trouble starts. alot of responsibility and the way married thinks is totally different. $$)

just for the fun of few mins and have alot of miserable headache now.

better dont go for abortion thats an advise. bear the burden work harder to earn more $$.

and get married. (no choice and thats yr responsibility and dont run away from it or else u will regret later on in life). BE more matual, since u will be a father soon.

very bad karma if abortion for u

This post has been edited by lowyat888: Mar 24 2009, 12:14 PM

for those who supported TS's decision to abort, your are most concern about his financial stability when a child is born into the world.

And no, I'm not saying that everyone should marry and have a baby young since you are going to have one anyway. What I'm trying to is, TS's already has ONE in his fiancee's tummy, why kill it?

Life's always has its ups and downs and challenges. You can't just run away into hidings or take the easy way out when you face the down times.

with the child,
u will hafta spend less money for mamak, clubbing, cc, shopping, travel, makan

who will want that at age 25?
good decision