Having bigger coverage is important if you travel. If Umobile get to a point where the customer base is as large as Celcom Digi, do you not think their network will get congested as well? They will experience the same slowness

Not switching is due to
1) MNP is not well known for old folk
2) bad coverage is well known for 30 to 50 years old ppl
3) all ppl doesn't know 5g coverage are same for every telco.

This caused UM still lacking behind no matter how...

Remember, enterprise package mostly stuck at celcom and maxis.... Even digi still not able to grab...

Agree with this article... 2nd network might cause both entity not willing to expand rural area... Remember our DNB only cover 81% of population. 20% left mean 6m still not able to get 5g now...

Unless gov restrict 2nd entity to build site at non DNB area which is quite impossible

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...consumer-group/

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...oposal-to-mcmc/

CelcomDigi submitted the most compressive proposal to MCMC.

Very Confident of getting it since got Telenor backup 👌

Dual 5G network could become profit-driven duopoly, economist warns
Goh Lim Thye of Universiti Malaya says it could result in a return to slower services at higher prices.

PETALING JAYA: The switch from a government-led 5G monopoly to a dual network model may result in the creation of a profit-driven duopoly, disadvantaging consumers, says an economist.

Goh Lim Thye from Universiti Malaya said to ensure the viability of both networks, Digital Nasional Berhad (DNB) would have to build additional infrastructure to enable spectrum-sharing and maintain the 100 Mbps speed requirement.

This would require substantial investment, leading to financial strain, he said.

“To cover these costs, telcos might raise prices. For instance, countries with duopolistic telecom markets, like Australia, have seen higher prices compared to more competitive markets.

"Financial viability concerns could also lead to compromises in service quality and technological advancements, he told FMT.

In 2021, Malaysia planned for DNB, a state-owned agency, to control the entire 5G spectrum, with various carriers using the infrastructure for mobile services. However, DNB came under scrutiny due to its monopoly over the spectrum, with critics arguing it would stifle competition and innovation.

Last year, communications and digital minister Fahmi Fadzil announced Malaysia would transition from the current single wholesale network (SWN) model to a dual network model.

At the time, Fahmi said the switch would foster healthy competition and ensure good quality and affordable 5G services for the public.

Duopoly

However, Goh said the resultant duopoly – in which the market is controlled by two players – may see a replication of issues which arose from the previous telco oligopoly which existed, including higher prices and lower service quality.

An oligopoly arises when a market is controlled by a small number of players.

Goh said oligopolies allow companies to collude tacitly to restrict output, fix prices or keep prices high without direct coordination to achieve higher-than-normal profits.

He added the country’s larger telcos are already able to generate high profits due to economies of scale, reducing their per-unit costs and increasing profit margins.

By also providing premium services and leveraging brand loyalty, they maintain high average revenue per user (ARPU), Goh told FMT.

He said these strategies have made the telco business extremely profitable.

In 2023, Maxis reported an Earnings Before Interest and Taxes (EBIT) margin of 27.5%. Celcom’s EBIT margin in 2023 was approximately 25.8%. Digi reported an EBIT margin of 30.2% in 2023, Goh said.

He said the existence of an oligopoly, however, disadvantaged consumers who tend to pay high prices but are often faced with slower services.

Goh pointed to a Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) report which found that the average broadband price in Malaysia was in the region of RM100 per month, but with broadband speeds lagging behind regional counterparts such as Singapore and South Korea.

Anti-competitive

Meanwhile, T Saravanan, CEO of the Federation of Malaysian Consumers Associations (Fomca), expressed concerns that the duopoly could also be anti-competitive.

Insider knowledge due to representatives from the second network developer being on the board of DNB could lead to conflicts of interest, where decisions may benefit network providers over consumers."

Previously, Putrajaya required all telcos vying to develop the second network to acquire a stake in DNB.

Following that, CelcomDigi, Maxis, U Mobile and YTL Communications announced they had met the conditions set out in a share subscription agreement, allowing them to collectively acquire a 70% stake in DNB.

In June, Machang MP Wan Ahmad Fayhsal Wan Ahmad Kamal criticised the move, saying it could give rise to a conflict of interests. He called for Putrajaya to halt plans for the second 5G network.

Earlier this month, Tasek Gelugor MP Wan Saiful Wan Jan expressed similar reservations about the plan.

Two weeks ago, former science, technology, and innovation minister Khairy Jamaluddin warned that introducing a second 5G network could lead to DNB’s failure.

He said reports suggested that the allocation of unused equipment to the second network may result in DNB writing off assets worth RM900 million.

Goh cautioned that the rollout of the second network could result in DNB’s failure due to unfair competition, with potential losses ultimately borne by the public.

He called for enhanced regulation and stricter oversight to prevent anti-competitive practices.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 31 2024, 10:27 PM

celcomdigi 5G 2000gb RM14 9 days profit-driven or not
with the size of celcomdigi if this plan become official others telco sure not happy
celcomdigi monopoly
anti competition something like that

Promotional Monthly Fee wireless broadband 5G home WiFi (SIM only) is RM99

.
Latest news: .......

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...cond-5g-network - 2024/08/01 - celcomdigi-submits-plan-on-second-5g-network
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If CelcomDigi partners with Maxis to set up DNB2 and 5G SA(.?), they will likely contract with Huawei and ZTE = much cheaper set-up costs (< RM10 billion over 10 years.?) than DNB1 which went with Ericsson and 5G NSA that costs about RM16 billion over 10 years.

If U Mobile, YES and TM Unifi Mobile end up owning the government's DNB1, they will likely be stuck with DNB1's huge debt.

And if DNB1 will not quickly transition to 5G SA, they will lose market share to DNB2's 5G SA(.?) once the latter is up and running with >67% population coverage.
.

5G Standalone transition depend on MNOs itself to provide the core. In MOCN, the telco share spectrum and hardware but the core itself is independent.

Which mean DNB can literally activate 5G standalone if the MNOs already ready with their 5G core.



For the coverage itself, that is quite an optimistic view in my opinion. For references, TM HSBB has existed more than the decades. Other alternatives such as Time and TNB fibre line still very slow to expand.

If like fibre expansion is how the MNOs gonna roll out the 2nd network 5G. It gonna take a really long time to reach that 67% coverage.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Aug 1 2024, 04:48 PM

DNB 5G still expending 5G coverage until 2nd 5G announcement I guess.
So many new 5G smartpole tower been installed near Klang and Bandar Saujana Putra area even near my home where had weak 5G signal. But non of them activated by time being. Maybe they might waiting for approval from certain authorities or funding issues.

Seems CelcomDigi Umobile are working hard to get 2nd 5G tender to work on no update on Maxis so far

.
https://www.digi.com/blog/post/5g-network-architecture - What Is 5G Network Architecture?
Harald Remmert, CTO, Cellular Solutions , Digi International
March 19, 2021

.... The earliest uses of 5G technology will not be exclusively 5G but will appear in applications where connectivity is shared with existing 4G LTE in what is called non-standalone (NSA) mode. When operating in this mode, a device will first connect to the 4G LTE network, and if 5G is available, the device will be able to use it for additional bandwidth. For example, a device connecting in 5G NSA mode could get 200 Mbps of downlink speed over 4G LTE and another 600 Mbps over 5G at the same time, for an aggregate speed of 800 Mbps. ...

The 5G core uses a cloud-aligned service-based architecture (SBA) to support authentication, security, session management and aggregation of traffic from connected devices, all of which requires the complex interconnection of network functions, as shown in the 5G core diagram. ...
.
AFAIK, both 5G Core (= software) and 5G SA cell towers (= hardware) can solely be set up by DNB2 (ie no need MNOs to do so) and then shared by it's celco or MNO partners (eg CelcomDigi and Maxis.?) depending on the partners' internal agreement wrt bandwidth, payment for access to 5G SA, etc.
.

1. Fair word: If compare 4G price in MY in 2013 to 2024, 4G price has dropped significantly due to competition in the market. Quota given till now has reached the level people dont bother to know how much they have used. So it is untrue that price for 4G is high. Malaysia price per quota is among the lowest globally despite of our small market size. My plan in 2013 is RM89 for 1GB today i paid RM79 for 80GB, it is a significant drop in price. This is result of market demand and competition.

Based on Ookla, Malaysia average 4G speed is 30Mbps, 6Mbps is those plan that use up their quota or some very basic prepaid plan, all plans are given at unlimited speed subject to coverage and congestion (same as any other telco around the world). In US, cheap mvno plan can come very cheap as they are limited to certain city and state usage only. So your comparison is somehow biased skewed aside.

2. All new tech tend to share one thing, lack of users therefore score tends to be high, in the beginning when Celcom (i have multiple lines) launched 5G with DNB, i can see 600Mbps on 5G, today only 100Mbps. That is 6x degradation. Tech scoring degrades over time not improve, so comparing a new 5G vs decade old 4G on user experience with uneven number of users and consumption also biased.

3. I have done some reading previously seeing the DNB fiasco, government allocate DNB 200Mhz for 5G shared by 6 operator equivalent to about 30Mhz per operator. From online, 200Mhz can give about 2.5Gbps for 5G, means 30Mhz is around 375Mbps. When 5G becomes congest every telco only has 375Mbps to share among all their users which is not enough - when more users going into 5G, 4G experience eventually will be faster than 5G which is laughable. Telco themselves have 4G spectrum, if the 5G spectrum given to them combining their 4G spectrum they can offer higher speed - which done by most telco around the world. Gov initiative on 5G is actually a tech mistake that is why no other country doing single wholesale - there are two eventually gave up and another bankrupt.

4. Back then, gov invest in fibre infra rollout with TM because no other telco willing to lay fibres due to high cost. However, for 5G back in 2019, all telcos are lobbying to do it and want to roll out and showcases done getting ready. Then PN dropped a bombshell and give to a newly form company DNB, and government needs to fork out billions for DNB. While private sectors willing to use their money, government back then is wasting taxpayers money that can be used for better purpose. And now gov claims they will maintain 30% shares in DNB.

5. NPS score comparing 5G and 4G are biased as 5G users are less than 4G, comparing a unloaded tech with a loaded tech, of course the new and unloaded one will win. I am early adopter for 5G, i can say quality is getting poorer and some area with 5G cant even surf web, have to disable 5G to use 4G, this is today experience of 5G. And i cant change to other operator cause knowing quality will be equally shit. When i call Maxis and Celcom to complain, i cant threaten them to port out cause others better quality, it sounds stupid.

Summary: Monopoly sucks.

If want to compare 2013 to 2024 cellular reduced price, isn't that also happening in the fibre as well? TM control majority of fibre yet the price is still reduced. So is the price reduction actually coming from "competition"?

Big market: Thailand = Rm0.52/gb (300gb/Rm157).
Small market: Singapore = Rm (300gb/Rm68).
Your plan = Rm0.99 (80gb/Rm79).

Based on comparison above, both our neighbors that have bigger or smaller area coverage have cheaper data plan than Malaysia 4G data plan.

With DNB 5G:
Umobile = Rm0.10/gb(1000gb/Rm98).
Yes = Unlimited no FUP.



In the US, Visible MVNO use Verizon network which is one of the biggest MNOs in the US and also the same can be said with US Mobile MVNO which use Verizon and T-Mobile.

So I'm not sure why are you saying im biased when the cheaper MVNO plan is indeed available in all area of US.


I already hear this argument many times. If you want to say that 5G only fast because nobody use it. Why Malaysia competitive 4G network still doesn't get recognized as one of the fastest 4G speed in the world?

Because when I see Ookla and Opensignal data in 2015, I can confidently said that Malaysia 4G median speed still can't beat the top global nation.


That's not how it work. You cannot just take 200MHz and divide it by 6. 200MHz is the bandwidth that everyone will get.

Another one, DNB only releasing 100MHz of n78 and 20MHz of b28 to public and still Malaysia manage to stay on top of global 5G MEDIAN speed ranking.


https://x.com/Yozzo/status/1778344034534396282

You still using the old failed 4G SWN implementation yet forget to recognized DNB 5G success implementation. In just 3 years, DNB already make people like you compare it's network performance to the whole decade of 4G network.

For your information, other people in other country already impressed with Malaysia 5G implementation of having the fastest 80% coverage rollout while getting one of the fastest 5G speed in the world.

Please tell me Mr, where is the news or data or achivement that said Malaysia 4G has reach this during 4G decades?

Ironically you said that if telco can combine their frequency with 4G like other country, it will be faster. I will ask you again. Why other country can't beat Malaysia MEDIAN 5G speed?

To get median speed, it means all location in the country need to have that same speed as well.


Using taxpayer money for public infrastructure is the best way to use tax money. If MADANI still using DNB. No money will be lost but instead Anwar and the telco love Huawei so much that he willing to sacrifice DNB for the sake of the telco profits.

If 4G is really that impressive, please just show me the data about Malaysia 4G have one of the fastest 4G speed in the world and show me the positives NPS when 4G was just release.

I doubt you can find that because it doesn't exist and will ruin your narrative. Malaysia 4G telco only know competitive profit, not competitive services.

4G is also so impressive that the goverment literally need to create JENDELA just so the rural people can get any data connection.

Secondly, telco can showcase anything, but they just want to upsell their capability, if you dont trust me, just go to My5g portal as see all the "solutions" that can be done using 5G and see which one actually exist. At the end of the day, 5G is just another G, and this another G is the reason why CelcomDigi merge because 5G investment is not cheap like how they want you to think.



Is this really what we gonna do just to protect the MNOs feeling? By saying negative NPS score like as a good thing?

Even after a decade of rolling out 4G network. Having negative experience is what supposed to be a good benchmark? After all the profits that the telco get, they cannot increase capacity for their 4G network?

Now I'm confused, first you said 5G get good score because unloaded, and then after that you said 5G is congested and loaded. Please just stick to one argument please and not spin the facts just so it can fit your narrative.

My question right now is, for example, when 4G maxis is shit, will you transfer to CelcomDigi or you just "threatening" Maxis.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Aug 5 2024, 12:45 PM

4G price 'low speed big quota' segment is drop thanks to umobile funz
coverage getting better with JENDELA tower

Our 4G coverage is better than indo. Over there rural people using wifi internet voucher with 4G slow speed.

4G slow speed mostly because of tower congestion. There we have lock band. lock pci and parabolik installer

Starlink indonesia becoming big news because of coverage, speed and price. Starlink speed and price on par with fiber
Malaysia Starlink news already cool down
Dont understand thai and tagalog.

I'm gonna be honest, what are you trying to explain here?

Now we has compared 5G to the best nation to 4G compared to the lesser nation just so we can make 4G sounds good or I'm just misunderstood here?

Because if that is the reason, isn't:
1) Yes and Umobile 5G plan is the reason Malaysia get cheaper and faster plan than 4G in Malaysia?

2) Malaysia 5G coverage in 3 years already reach more than 80%, how many years it take for the 4G network to get that coverage during 4G rollout. Any data on that?

3) 4G slow speed because of congestion is okay but 5G congestion is suddenly not okay because of DNB?

5) Starlink Indonesia is big news because it offer speed like fibre. Isn't that what DNB already done with their 5G networks. Even in peak hour, my location can easily reach 200 Mbps which is already more than basic 100Mbps fibre speed.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Aug 11 2024, 12:00 PM

#1 UMobile replaces Digi in the price war in 4G arena which create competition to bring price down, even Maxis also has to follow as they losing customers back then.

#2 If not mistaken, it took telco 3 years to 70% during 4G era. However telco 70% includes inbuilding, DNB only outdoor. Can google for data. Also DNB is MCMC brainchild, whatever announce by DNB need not fact check by MCMC, if DNB announce 90% tomorrow, who can say they are wrong? And MCMC enjoys the marketing they did a good job. So the pop coverage is merely smokescreen for marketing purpose.

#3 I think DNB 5G solution prevented telco to make use of their own LTE bands (combine with the 5G NSA) to deliver higher speed and to reduce congestion. DNB 5G is not scalable as they have limited LTE spectrum to complement the 5G spectrum. Most operators globally doing these except Msia cause of the single wholesale network model. So DNB 5G will hit dead end in near future.

#5 Maybe you stay rural, 5G speed is not like when it first launch always 400Mbps, now i hardly see 100Mbps at my area. Sometimes data stalled and i have to manually turn off 5G. 5G is fast in early stage cause not many people using it, now more people, it becoming crappy day by day. So all the marketing about 5G good speed vs 4G is merely cause no one was using it in the beginning - so and if DNB cant scale by adding more spectrum, it will be another 4G or even worse.

That is why with all the sugarcoated Single Wholesale Network idea while no one in the world doing it, already know is bad idea. But government back then maybe something happened behind, they took the risk and now is in big mess. DNB 5G can be delivered fast but not sustainable… in the end Msians have to pay more.

Price reduction that barely low just from the above bracket of price plan offered by other MNOs. The FUP is still limited to ~30gb-40gb. For context, Yes offered unlimited FUP while yes offered 1000gb FUP which is more cheaper per Rm. If 4G is already matured, why 5G plan can ve more affordable than 4G? Can you explain that?


Show me that data. I been showing screenshot of article and stats to support my argument. Dont be lazy and use cheap way to get away by asking me to Google instead. How you can be sure the data I Google is the same like yours. If you just show your data, I can 100% sure what you say is true and not just an assumption. If the data truly exist, just post it here already.

Again, the allegations of DNB is MCMC child, show me the data that MCMC has lied about DNB. If you just do allegations without any proof, you already sound like PAS who just love to accuse but 0 proof shown.


4G band will barely improve speed due to its only being a low band. 5G in Malaysia use midband which Malaysia and Singapore only use in SEA. But I'm gonna be honest, it can maybe can improve the capacity. For your information, DNB have license for 200MHz of mid band frequency and DNB only release half5of it now. They can activate the other half and increase the capacity per antenna later eventually. After that they can increase the antenna per sector after that.


Or maybe 10 years of 4G rollout can make the telco put out a lot of antenna per area while DNB who prioritize coverage first put 1 antenna per sector which proven to increase coverage fast at the cost of capacity. Eventually 10 years later 5G gonna like 4G as well where the area per sector can have more capacity with more antenna installed in base stations.

Since you said 5G is fast because nobody is using it, why 4G Malaysia data speed never reach other top 4G speed globally. If telco implementation of 4G is good. Why DNB bad 5g implements can make Malaysia have one of the faster 5G speed global while 4G never reach thr top global 4G speed? Any answer for that?


In 4G area, Malaysia literally has to paid more just to have 4G speed that barely fast in SEA. While with DNB, in just 3 years, already have more than 80% of "outdoors" coverage. Malaysia 5G MEDIAN speed also is one of the top globally which 4G never achieve in 10 years time. So what money is being wasted? Which part of Malaysian payed more when the coverage is extending fast and still extending until now whether in urban or rural area.

4G eventhough already decade of rolling out, the congestion still happen which I thought can already be solve since competition should give better service right, so why 4G still have congestion issue when the plan from CelcomDigi and Maxis can easily reach rm100+ which is more expensive than current 5G plan competitor?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Aug 17 2024, 10:24 AM

1. New tech can offer more cost efficient per GB, so 5G is better than 4G is no doubt. 2G > 3G > 4G > 5G cost per GB reduction is within expectation. Having say that YES 5G giving 1TB is merely a marketing stunt as unless you tether and torrent, not possible to consume up that much for today usage. To calculate shall based on price per actual consumption, which may differ for everyone. In short 5G can bring down the data cost for consumer, whether is DNB or telco own built it will still gonna happen with telco own competition among each others. Existence of DNB is redundant, bad part about DNB is government needs to fork out money which means using people money to do it when telco willing to pay for it.

2. LTE population coverage of Malaysia blended
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1051191...ation-coverage/

DNB is under purview of MCMC, a gov entity itself, and gov also own 30% or DNB (previously 100%), DNB is formed by Finance Ministry and Communication Ministry and did not use third party audit on the population coverage measurement. There is a conflict of interest. For telco coverage on 2/3/4G, MCMC audit them so give a more fair assessment.

You are right i have no proof but it is questionable as i am typing this dense urban area place, there is no 5G.

3. I did my own reading and some chatgpt, no matter how i calculate 200Mhz with the LTE 40Mhz low band, DNB will max out to serve 6 operators. In 5G NSA model, the 700Mhz is DNB major achiles heel, that will congest first and cause issue of using 5G before the actual 200Mhz 5G band. While SA may be the solution but it seems quite abit of negative reviews from country currently running, you may not like this but i will say my source is google.

4. You seem to dwelve into the marketing campaign that say Malaysia 5G is fastest, kinda naive, do note that when DNB first launch, only YES the smallest telco in Msia is offering service with a few thousand customers maybe or less. The entire network is used by few people, when they do speed test, it will be really fast as compared to other countries which already launch 5G for years with more significant number of users. The less the adoption of 5G, the faster the speed will be. So the comparison with others merely show we have less users not really fastest. You need to observe much longer trend … i think 2025 perhaps will be a fairer bit comparison i.e. 2025 Msia speed vs 2023 of other countries speed.

5. I think is wrong for you to keep comparing current 4G speed which has more subs but older tech compare to 5G with 5G today in Malaysia with less customers and less devices (cheap 5G phones like <RM1000 quite little still). This is also same for my point in #4, where other countries launch 5G longer and have more 5G subs in their network and therefore their average speed came down due to higher adoption. This is true as Msia 5G speed is slowing down after 2 years of launch and it will go lower and match with rest of the world once adoption pick up.

.
Latest news: .......

https://www.lowyat.net/2024/329511/four-mno...2nd-5g-network/ - CelcomDigi, Maxis, TM, And U Mobile Submit Bids To Develop Second 5G Network
A decision by MCMC is expected to be made within the year.
BY HEIRUL KAMEL AUGUST 16, 2024
.
.

https://www.lowyat.net/2024/329164/celcomdi...ure-in-sarawak/ - CelcomDigi, U Mobile, And ZTE Set Up 5G-A Infrastructure In Sarawak
Ahead of the upcoming SUKMA 2024 games.
BY JOHN LAW AUGUST 13, 2024

= AFAIK, 5G-A(dvanced) is based on 5G SA, unlike DNB1's 5G NSA. Does this mean the Sarawak and Sabah state governments will soon deploy their own 2nd 5G SA network by CelcomDigi and U Mobile, to compete with DNB1, ie no DNB2 in Sabah and Sarawak.?
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 19 2024, 05:10 PM

No way. Deploying 5G SA would be very costly for both Sabah and Sarawak due to geography challenges. I believe both telcos just temporary deploy it at certain Sukma event for 5G showcase.

So far I still can get 1gbps at some area at KL old klang road and USJ taipan. It is just too much ppl using the 5G tower that serving u. Of coz every tower must achieve certain speed to pass the verification. DNB should add more 5G sites for those congestion, not ask for 2nd 5G network, it will spur the user to two parts (like current maxis full of spectrum but less users and half of the users at celcomdigi but only get 33% of LTE spectrum)

i duno what you mean by 200mhz of sub6 and 40mhz of LTE anchor band will congest... it is not logic at all, it should depends on how the operator to deploy the site, eg china mobile may only occupy 100mhz for sub 6 but they still can serve their 700m subs in china. The more sites will effect total subs per site reduced (this is all depend on DNB willing to add site or no).

For 4G, telco dun wan to add site due to cost issue, example, digi only have 3 sites at taipan with limited spectrum but they just dun wan to add site, but after celcomdigi, they consolidated celcom sites to share within celcomdigi subs, this make the subs per site reduced and improved speed.


but question is DNB willing to do or no...and for sure splitting the 40m subs to two network will make this worsen as both of the network lack of budget to do so...(can see from celcomdigi vs celcom and digi)

This post has been edited by prosibu: Aug 20 2024, 09:30 PM


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