Continue from https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110007901

But then is 1G journey to 4G is the same like 4G to 5G?

1G to 2G is created because of "past" encryption issue, not because of "future" usage.

2G to 3G happen because the need internet that is being used on desktop at that current time which is also a "past" issue not *future" usage.

3G to 4G happens because 3G doesn't provide enough speed which is also a "past" issue.

1G till 4G has been proven to be created to solve issue that actually exist and needed an upgrade. So I'm not sure where you get the sentiment that cellular technology is created to be over engineered as possible when the upgrade is actually needed at that current time.

Source: The 5G Myth: When Vision Decoupled from Reality by William Webb

Running cellular network is not like a startup. MNOs have to buy spectrum, have to put basetation. If the resources is not being used, the MNOs is pretty much bleeding money which is why you see nowadays, MNOs all around the world is merging because the cost of of running cellular network is expensive.

Which is why DNB is taking that burden off from the MNOs so MNOs can only focus on actually using that "over engineered" technology instead of wasting precious spectrum just because they can.

i'm talking about the roll out model of 1G to 5G.
u comparing the usage/use case of 1G to 5G.

1G to 5G roll out also got mixture of government intervention vs telco owned.

The problem I dont like about DNB is ;
1. They are not run like non-profit organisation. In fact their CEO pay is like 1 of those telco CEO pay. The cost of operating DNB for profit will be passed on to consumers.

2. No competition for 5G services among telcos. Example : If im not happy with Maxis 5G speed and coverage , even if I port out to Digi , it will be the same because all of them are served by DNB. Knowing DNB , their attitude will be " rilek la " , no incentive to improve becoz of monopoly.

When I was in Aussie , I could reach speeds up to 900+mbps DL on 5G. In Malaysia , most of time only 200mbps on download if im lucky.

I see no incentive for DNB to buck up and improve 5G speed.

TM fibre manage to up their speed significantly and reduce prices for home users only bcoz Gobind Singh kick their arses. DNB ??? Nobody bothers with them at all.

Understable and I agree with some of your perspective and I see your concern about option and services with DNB.

But then, if goverment can do intervention on TM fibre prices, why can't the goverment do the same to DNB when they literally have the golden share? Which I think is a bigger control than just being a GLC.

1) Your concern with the CEO is understable. For the cost of running the infrastructure itself, I think 4G brings many advantages to the MNOs since they can squeeze out the vendor but then why that savings is not translated to cheaper 4G plan?

In 2024, 4G plan that is being offered by Malaysia telco either have FUP or very low speed limit like 6 Mbps while in USA, Visible MVNO can offer high-speed unlimited plan for only 25usd.

2) In my opinion, for only 3 years in existence, DNB already over achieved what telco cannot done during 4G in same time duration.

What I mean is, in 3 years, 5G Malaysia already have a Positive Net Promoter Score which telco 4G fail to achieve even after a decade. 177.618% improvement is no small feat to achieve and why this gap happen? Only the MNOs know.

Green = 5G, Yellow = 4G

Positive NPS = More happy customers, Negative NPS = More unhappy customers

And for the port out option, ironically, isn't Maxis and CelcomDigi both have congestion issue? So what is even the difference with DNB? The MNOs have the money to increase 4G capacity but they are not doing it. Why?

Malaysia 5G speed is already among the highest on MEDIAN speed globally which again telco 4G fail to achieve. I don't see any news or data that show telco Malaysia get one of the highest speed GLOBALLY during 3 years of 4G existence in Malaysia during 4G era.

I'm not sure if TM attitude can be put the same on DNB when DNB literally bring Malaysia cellular network speed to the top Globally and Asia while TM fibre median speed is not even closed to Thailand and Singapore. The data themselves even show the gap of 4G and 5G improvement. So how does competition during 4G existence translate to better service when until now 4G still have problem even for basic problems like calling?

Based on the latest Ookla Global Index data recently. Malaysia increase their ranking by 2 position above and get into top 25 in cellular median speed. Based on my assumption is, this happen because of 5G speed contribution for the data.


https://www.speedtest.net/global-index/malaysia#mobile

If the theory of having more competition is good, the data will show easily that 4G will be having positive NPS while 5G will have negative NPS. But it seems the theory is not translating well and it seems not translating at all in Malaysia market and we can only wonder why?

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 01:24 AM

Without competition DNB self claim themselves as higher speed 5G in Malaysia. All telco are riding on same 5G Infra if down all network faces down. Also heavily congested recent days. Telco's free 5G phone campaign forced consumers switch to 5G phones. Also major telcos offering 5G home broadbands. Speeds are pretty slow. From 1Gbps to 100mbps. DNB claims 100mbps is standard for 5G Lol 4G+ can go up to 200mbps
DNB still earn all credits with Monopoly scheme my suggestion will more competition gets more value more speeds and less price. Major telcos revamped data plans due to DNB monopoly. CelcomDigi won't set stupid 5G speed cap if they had own 5G network.

DNB under Gobind Digital Ministry now

But the thing is TM Fibre is a necessity now bcoz ADSL is no more. Consumers have no where to run bcoz all other ISP home fibre ride on TM's infra. Time only serves high-rise buildings and business users.

5G is another story. Government might treat it as a luxury rather than necessity bcoz 4G network is still around. So I dont think he will intervene.

If DNB self claim can somehow brings Malaysia to one of the top global 5G speeds, why can't it done be the same with 4G?

Does Maxis or Celcom has claim to be one of the fastest 4G network GLOBALLY? Because the last time I read the news, Malaysia 4G MEDIAN speed is barely fast in Southeast Asia itself.


https://www.lowyat.net/2022/266106/malaysia...load-speed-sea/

To self claim as the highest speed globally, the whole Malaysia need to have a high median speed which the data already prove.

Even in context of congestion, what is the speed of 4G compared to 5G during congestion time? Does 5G suddenly become slower than 4G?

Again same question by me. What is the speed of 4G Broadband compared to 5G Broadband in peak hours?

For your information, 100Mbps is a standard that is set by ITU-R. An organization under United Nations that proposed IMT-2020. 3GPP then use this standard to create the network that we called 5G nowadays.

Based on the picture below, 4G (IMT-Advanced) standard speed is only 10 Mbps which is ironically Malaysia 4G median speed like the table shown above.

Theoretical peak 5G speed is 20Gbps while for 4G is 1Gbps. That is a massive difference.


https://x.com/ITU/status/1039885559399936000

is that true with 4G?

In 4G era, maybe that is true. But now that is not true anymore though especially when we see how global MNOs are pricing their plan.

I don't see a major country that somehow have their 5G plan price is getting lesser with more MNOs in the country. What happen is they all increase the price for 5G plan.

Only in Malaysia where 5G somehow decrease the price of 5G plan.

USA:

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/expect-5g-o...-prices-in-2024

India:




Bonus: Here a short simple video about how 5G get standardized.


This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 03:54 AM

are we on 5G core rather than 5G riding on 4G core? aka 5G SA rather than NSA.

Deleted

This post has been edited by NagaK: Jul 1 2024, 10:21 AM

Speeds are subjectable. 4G broadband had bad experience among consumers in terms of speed where 5G changed the landscape. Minimum 300mbps

Knowledgeable in India GOVT approved above 2 5G band to deploy. Example Jio deploy 5G Standalone network where Airtel deploy non standalone ( similar to Malaysia DNB )

My opinion more competition gets more better quality network. DNB 5G coverage is good in Klang Valley. They need improve indoor coverages. Also MNO should focus on 4G too

I have to state a fact that...

If you want coverage, the costs will be freaking high, which means higher price for cust too.

if you want cheap, then there will be limited coverage on rural area due to the costs involved and also on pure business perspective that focus on urban area first.

Remember during COVID the kid climb on the tree to get mobile data to study from home?

In fact gov need to fork out public money to all those MNOs that you all like to fund them to setup network at rural area.

That's what happened when you rely on business driven company to dictate the coverage of the network.

First 4G was launched way back on 2013, but it took about 6 years to just reach that 82%, then after JENDELA funding only push to 97%...

Meanwhile DNB manage to achieve the 80% coverage in under 3 years...Why? Because it focus on coverage regardless of business needs.

Money don't drop from the sky,

Worst 5G network coverage ever, The 5G antenna setup a block away from my house. Just can get 1-2 bar.

Loves when I travel to Hatyai, their border 5G full bars (I used Hotlink postpaid roaming) very strong.

It because DNB not turn ON 5G 700mhz

Thailand 5G mid-range frequency of 2600 MHz and the low frequency of 700 MHz

Because sadly that is the nature of 3.5Ghz band we used.

Currently, only Malaysia and Singapore that uses this frequency band for 5G in all area while other country in Southeast Asia only use 700Mhz band for their 5G with only some urban area in Thailand use 2.6GHz frequency band.

Which mean, they technically just "refarm" the low band. Which is why Thailand can get away with lower density base station than Malaysia and still get higher coverage because that is the advantages of 700Mhz.

But that 700MHz come at the cost of very low speed of around only 50 - 150 Mbps. That speed is like Malaysia urban area 4G speed only because ironically, Malaysia is indeed using Thailand 5G urban 2.6GHz band for 4G.


https://soyacincau.com/2019/07/09/mcmc-pi-7...ctrum-broadband

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 12:36 PM

We still on 5G NSA.

Exactly what I have in my mind, Malaysia 5G rollout get scrutinize heavily by Malaysians yet people forget how slow was the 4G rollout by telco itself.

And with 5G, why would people think these telco will improve. Even the data shows how inconsistent 4G experience is. Yet people are more confident in telco implementation eventhough there is no data that shows these telco do a great impressive job during 3G or 4G days.

During 4G days, the telco only know about putting speed cap, putting FUP, demand shit load of money for a simple 4G plan and thats it. Did Malaysia have one of the fastest 4G speed in Global? 4G Malaysia speed can't even breakthrough Southeast Asia standard.

If speed is subjective, then what about customer experience and network consistency of 4G network? Malaysia literally have negative NPS. Is that the quality of what the competition really supposed to bring?

In theory, having competition is good because that's how Thailand and Singapore improve yet in Malaysia, it seems all the telco are living in their own cartel and doesn't even bother improving or innovate during 4G days.

Note: this is just my opinion. No hard feelings.

This post has been edited by OfficiallyAhmad: Jul 1 2024, 05:19 PM

.
Afaik, 4G/5G Internet speed depends on how many frequency bands and their allocated bands (in MHz) can be used for "carrier aggregation". Eg U Mobile's 4G+ can use freq Band 1, 3, 7 and 8 with a total allocation of 90MHz for CA to achieve speeds of >100Mbps during off-peak hours.
....... DNB-5G has an allocation of 200MHz for it's mid-band (78) 3.5GHz which can be used for CA to achieve speeds of >300Mbps. Only it's high-band (257) 28GHz with an allocation of 1,600MHz for CA can achieve >1Gbps or >1,000Mbps.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Jul 1 2024, 08:48 PM

Since DNB already focus on 5G NSA, the second network should be focussing on 5G SA and match DNB's coverage.

Indeed, hence it would be good if MCMC regulate that all MNOs to allow MOCN. This is so we can fix the need to have multiple sim to cater to availability of cell coverage.