Hey guys,

As some of you have seen me posted before, I am a tire engineer working for one of the top 4 premium manufacturer. I write mostly about tires on my blog here https://toptirereview.com/. My ultimate goal is to enable consumers to make a more knowledgeable decision when it comes to buying tires and I hope I can do so by using my website as a medium of information.

Anyways, since I am bored and its Sunday, I would take questions related to tires.

Feel free to ask any questions in regards to tires and I will try to answer as good as I can.

Thanks!

is 3-5 years old unused tyres kept in warehouse away from sunlight still safe to use on road?

what happen to my old tyre after left it within tyre shop

do they recycle the tyre?

In general yes, it should be safe to use. 2 points here

1st
The compound usually gets harder over time but this is usually not relevant for summer tires as their wet/dry braking distance do not differ much relative to the age of the tire. Winter tires are a different story as the compound softness plays a big role on ice/snow braking.

2nd
As you keep your tires in a high humidity condition there is a chance that you might see this phenomena "wax blooming". The rubber compound usually contains anti-ozonant to protect tires from oxidation. Depending on your storage conditions migration could be triggered and you will see brown or waxy surfaces on your tire surface after keeping them for 1-2years in a hot & humid warehouse. This could lead to complaints and so on but this is perfectly safe and does not have an impact on perforamnces.

Hopefully this answers your questions.

Good question. There has been a big shift towards the sustainability topic in Europe as everybody wants to have a "circular economy" (Utopia dream..)

Right now half of the used tires are use for energy production through pyrolysis. The rest is either land fill or chopped to small pieces to be used as a filler in a composite system (benches, arm rest....) However as the tire compounds relies heavily on synthetic rubber which is derived from oil, it is not sustainable in the long run. Search for new materials which can be sustainable is on the way but so far neither it is cheap or provide good performances.

How many tire u can carry in 1 go ?

good thread.

so far im using michelin for my car. those entry price model because it can last me more than 50k km.

as for bike, im using pirelli, very grip at corner.

my question is, those tire mostly made from malaysia and indonesia because of these 2 country hv rubber plantion?

When a tyre punctured with a 3 cm hole, the mechanic patched it with a round patch on the inside tyre wall. How long can this type of patching last?

I think I can carry 1 205/55R16 as its about 10kg. Not more than this

Michelin is famous with its superior performance in wear while remaining highly competitive in other performances. So you made a good choice.

Having rubber production is a good advantage to have but not necessary. Tire production are based on tax incentives, labor cost & easy of export.

What do you mean by "tyre wall"? You mean sidewall? --> patching sidewall is super no no as stresses is the highest on the sidewall. Chances of failure is relatively high.

If its on the tread & done properly & properly inflated , tire should be able to withstand till its end of life.

Thank you for your reply.
Not the side wall. Wall behind the thread.
Will the glue get dried up and leaks again?

Sorry, I do not really understand what is the "wall behind the tread"

But anyhow usually glue should last at least 3-5 years. Hence you should always make sure you check and maintain proper tire pressure.

Thank you again for your reply.

assume the same tyres model, is there any difference between made in china, thailand, indonesia, malaysia?

but i dont think there is a model of tyre that is manufactured in multiple country though

a 50% used ps4 vs a brand new made in china tyres e.g: Farroad FRD26 or westlake uhp, which will you choose?

So we know what different competitors use different rubber compounds for different regions. Like APAC, North America & Europe.

But if you are talking about South East Asia specs, it should be the same.

Of course every plant has its own tolerances and quality control but they should be relatively the same.

This depends on your requirements. Are you looking for wet or dry? Wet performances actually deteriorates over tread depth which would make the china tire still attractive in terms of pure performances. The opposite is for dry as dry performances actually gets better when the tread depth decreases.

I dont think PS4 had any performance over life time features like the new Michelin tirelines. What we have seen from China tires is that they are not good at solving target conflict. For example, they have outstanding wet braking but very bad mileage performance.

My personal opinion is to go for the used PS4.

Will upsizing from 185/55 R16 to 205/50 R16 affect in fuel economy and car acceleration assuming using the same wheels

I believe this is due to larger size but from online calculator it was way below (seems like the perfect size to upsize to) the 3 percent threshold (+0.25%) over 185/55 tires.

This post has been edited by minizian: Jul 11 2022, 03:21 PM

Why tyre shop ask me to rotate my tyres for a fee, when they're already rotating everyday when I drive?

hi, i'm an ex tire compound r&d engineer in Giti, mind to share which tire company u r working with?

u guys can be expertz here

coe684 is cute most of d times. u can ignore them rotate is happenning whenever u drives

This is a fantastic question! Best so far...

In terms of size effects, there is no big difference in terms of rolling resistance coefficient of your 2 sizes. <3%. If you somehow fit this on your vehicle assuming you have +20mm more space width, you are ok. Outer diameter only differs 2.5mm.

Regarding car acceleration, you have a wider front contact patch (205 vs 185) this is helpful in wet braking. But in terms of dry it should not matter.

Sounds like a joke to me but its quite funny so I will entertain.

What they meant is just switching the front tires with the rear tires due to your traction tire (usually the front) bears the most wear as it has to the heavy digging.

If you want to know more you can check out here as I wrote about why we should do tire rotation.

They say dragon fruit sap can patch tyre up true ?

Definitely not true.

Are China made tyres getting more competitive nowadays? If so, for an average daily driver, it would be wiser to gk for China made tyres?

From the results I see, they are catching up. Big brands such as ling long is relatively ok. But if budget is your constraint, you might as well got for the 2nd brands from the top manufacturers like Dunlop. They provide much more value than the China brands.

Thanks for the reply, I am not sure if my 6.5J wheel will be able to fit 205/50 wheels or not.

Tire shop person said cant fit while checking online the minimum width is 5.5J. Not sure who is correct who is wrong, they say its okay to fit 195/50R16 inside but the speedo will be off quite a bit

Hard to find good fitting third wheels since the stock wheels are not common offset unless go full custom which is not cheap.

Not sure if this is under your field or not.

Also, not sure which tire co your are in but I noticed some of tire brand model have different country of origin. Eg Pilot Sport 4 was made in France while the ST model was made Thailand. Likewise the same goes to Falken which certain model was made in Turkey while SEA model were made in Thailand. I believe Goodyear & Pirelli also hade made in China model & European made.

Are the quality same between country of origin for the same model of tires?

This post has been edited by minizian: Jul 12 2022, 09:37 AM

thanks for the advise. I was using almost all brands as I like to feel other makes of 'donus'. Somehow, If you are an average daily driver within town, I feel that there are next to no difference in terms of wet and dry handling. Even stopping also feels the same. Mind you that I tried tyres from top notch brands such as Michelin PS4s, PS4, Primacy 4, Turanza, PZeros to mid range such as Hankook V12evo2, Dunlop Maxx 050+ to budget range such as Dunlop D05, Firestone, etc etc.

Of course these top brands gives you some sense of 'security' but I really wonder whether it's really worth while to 'invest' in top brands. The reason I'm saying this is that because you can see some common defects in top brands such as Michelin PS4 rubber tends to 'peel off' at the thread or GY Asym and Pirellis that are well known of it's lump at the sidewalls etc etc.

Good thread!
My question - sometimes the tires (esp front) doesn't inflate at petrol stations, but all ok at tire shop. What could be the potential issue? I have tried multiple petrol stations just to make sure the machine/pressure sensor is not broken.

to be honest, every manufacturer has it own "defects" & issues. When you pay for a Michelin you are paying for its technological solution. The tires from them provide you the best possible wet braking while maintaining your wear performance at a very high level. Every tire manufacturer can be good at one single criteria. But to be good in 5-7 such as wet, dry, snow, ice & wear its a whole new different level.

Hence you might not be able to "feel" them when you are driving normally as per say any tire can be used for a normal driving conditions. But it is the moment when you need your tires most, be it during heavy rain or emergency braking where these "expensive" tire comes into play. So as the saying goes from Steve Jobs, "People don't know what they want until you show it to them".

Hope this answers your questions.

Strange, but I would suspect there is something wrong your air inlet valve. Might be worth changing them to see whether its a real culprit. Not worth to keep going back to a tire shop to maintain your air pressure

Michelin have a different product strategy when it comes to global product line. They have the European lines which forms their core, these are the Pilot Sport 4/5, Primacy 4 and then they add a ST for those in APAC. I am pretty sure they are using different construction + compound for their APAC counterparts as the local requirements are also different. They looks the same as the pattern which is what normal users see its the same between the 2 products. So to answer your question, there is a difference between these 2 products not only because they were made in different plants but its tune to the local demands. Of course if you are staying in APAC its wise to get the ST version because it is specifically tuned to our weather climate instead of a European version.

1) How long do tyres are really safe to be use. Is 5 years the max?
2) so im using an old rwd car which its stock wheels are wider in the rear. Right now i have 205/50/16 in front and 225/50/16 in rear. Problem is the rear tyre size is quite difficult to find. The one im using ps3. Which size do you suggest i change to or just stick to Michelline ps3/4..other brands didn't have this size😢

1) There are 2 main concerns here, one would be performance as the tread compound tends to harden over time you might get worse wet performances but the margins are quite low. I would say not more than 10 years if everything is normal. 2nd point is the storage conditions. Is the tire loaded ? how's the humidity and temperature in storage? these things affects the compound state but as long you are not killing it it should be fine

2) Regarding your tire size, the easiest solution is to change to 205/55R16. They have the size outer diameter and its widely available. Handling would be worse but I dont think you will feel a difference.

Sort of unrelated question but,

Is the tyre industry a good area of work for someone with product R&D background and an interest in cars?

And is it a difficult field to get into?

My current work/line of work is really boring me to death.

Recently noticed some grey import of CSC5 from China. Are there any difference in their compound?

I believe he already answered.
They got their own quality & tolerance control, even in different plant or country the formula should be still similar for same tire model.

I do not think interest in car is important but R&D background is certainly a plus.

Tire industry is all about target conflicts. An ideal tire engineer solves them with a range of complex material & technology while ensuring it can be still be producible. If you like a challenge, tire industry is definitely something you should explore. I think the key is to be very flexible in terms of learning as you will need mechanical, material, process & simulation knowledge to be a highly effective engineer.

I would not say its difficult but the competition is hot for the premium manufactures.

China being in the APAC region, It would be a good guess if there are the same. You could even measure the shore hardness and compared to see is there any big differences.

I think the price is greatly depending on where the tires are from and also the taxes imposed. The cheapest would be of course a locally sourced tire which has no taxes. PS5 is definitely imported so volumes and price points could differ in Singapore.

Tell me how to choose tires which less noisy?

Do research bro, if the tire model you interest to buy is from reputable brand usually got EU label which indicate the noise db level.
Everything can be search or find in google or search engine or go https://www.tyrereviews.com/ to check out other people feedback.

This post has been edited by littlefire: Jul 14 2022, 12:29 PM

Hi both, One item to point here. The EU label indicating the noise level is for exterior noise. This is the noise which you will hear if you are passing by the car with the engine switch off while coasting. What most users want is good interior noise which depends mostly on your car's sound absorption and also a bit from the tire. OE manufacture's do demand this kind of data especially when they pair their tires with new vehicles but sadly this data are always not made public.

Noise is a delicate topic as the noise generated by the tire depends on the softness of the compound, tread pattern, road surface and load on the tire. In general speaking there is some correlation from exterior noise & interior noise which might give you a hint which tires are less noisy. But generally tire with less grooves are better for noise.

Have you experienced tires which are really noisy till it annoys you?

Import tax I read somewhere it says 5%. Mark up for tires on average is 60%. But of course this is skewed towards the high inch region where sometimes it is double the amount.

Any issues if i keep seeing road pebbles or small stones lodged on my tyre threads? Leave it as it is?

These are usually fine as they tend to come out naturally. If you are hardworking of course it would be nice to pick them out but i predict the influence is very minimal.

sorry noob question
myvi gen3, 205 45 R16, how much air i should be putting in ?

I would use the same recommended pressure as your stock 185/55R15 tires. Unfortunately as this is an inch up you would need to find the right balance and sometimes it could be tricky. The range of being ok is extremely huge. So as long your tire is not off 5 psi + or - you are safe.

i been putting one psi higher then stock psi, so far couldn’t feel any difference la.

how to say is the right balance haha

I'm driving SUV Tiguan with 4motion and my two rear tire is about to be replaced soon. Currently, using Continental MC6, 235/50/R18.

1). Can I buy a different brand/model tire?
2). New tire should fit at Front or Rear?
3). Any recommendation of tire good for dry and wet? Hopefully can match MC6's performances.

1) Yes
2) 4motion = AWD, AWD rides need change all 4 tires at once (Please read your manual book!)
3) MC6 is UHP tires, if you want equivalent or better tires (UHP/Max Performance) you need to get at least like Michelin PS4/PS5 SUV tires, Bridgestone Potenza Sport/RE004, Goodyear Eagle F1 AS 5/6, Falken FK510 SUV, Hankook S1 Evo3...

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Search/Size/235...8/Season/Summer

https://www.tiguanforums.co.uk/threads/tyre...airs-only.4761/

This post has been edited by littlefire: Jul 25 2022, 09:12 AM

hello, do you know why and what the reason behind, the tires price huge jump(almost double) for like every 2 inch larger? just curious

ps4 for example
205/50/16 ~~ 450++
215/45/17 ~~ 480++

225/40/18 ~~ 750++
225/40/19 ~~ 900++

20~~ 1700++
21~~1700++

bro i am using a subaru forester mileage only 28k but the side of the tires already makan and the middle thread is almost 50%. what could be the reason?

i rotate tires every 10k mileage.
tire size is 225/55/r18 current one is bridgestone

In the market for new tires. Recently discovered PS4S. Should I for PS4S or PS5? What would be the main differences?

1). Can I buy a different brand/model tire?
---> For sure you can buy another brand. Its a free market. You do not have to stick with the OE tires.

2). New tire should fit at Front or Rear?
---> There is 2 main points when it comes to this.
1st: Putting new tires on the rear would be beneficial especially during aquaplaning situation. Your higher tread depth would allow you a higher slip speed compare to the front tires. Also if you have an emergency with your lower tread depth tires in the front, you can steer them. For safety reasons you should always place the new tires in the rear

2nd: Putting new tires on the front make sense from a wear point of view. As you are most likely driving in a front wheel mode for your Tiguan, this would mean that your front tires will wear faster and balance your wear rate in the rear at one point which allows your to prolong your time till the next tire change.

So based on these 2 points, you should balance between your requirements. If you do travel > 80 km/h during rainy days with big water patches you should fit it on your rear. Of course you can always drive slower and avoid aquaplaning and set your new tires to your front to have more "value"

3). Any recommendation of tire good for dry and wet? Hopefully can match MC6's performances.

Michelin Primacy 4st 235/50R18 730
Continental UC6 235/50R18 540
Kumho Ecsta PS31 235/50R18 468
Continental Max Contact 6 235/50R18 550
Yokohama Advan Fleva V701 235/50R18 538

I had a quick look on my price table and the above are some of them options. MC6 is one of the best in wet but if you are looking for something better, I would recommend Primacy 4st. You can check out the head to head comparison here

Nice observation. I cover the topic of inch up pricing here

I hope that it answers your question.

I did a detail comparison here

Hopefully it helps

Hello, when you say makan do you mean there is no more tread depth? (1.6mm) ? Would be nice if you can either take a picture or measure the tread depth in all sides (shoulder center shoulder)

When I look into Subaru Forester, it seems that it is a AWD configuration. Do let me know if this is the same for your car. If its a AWD setup, rotating your tires does help at all. For your shoulder wear issues, this is quite common in SUV configuration but not as extreme as you said (1.6mm on shoulder and still have 50% in the center) So you might want to check your car camber setup to see if anything is wrong.

A detailed analysis can be done if you provide more data

When you dont feell anything at all then balance is right

With a 4 wheel drive configuration, yes Its a no brainer. Put the new tires on the rear.

This post has been edited by epjx31: Jul 25 2022, 11:21 PM

i recently switch the rear and front tyre around, same psi as before but can feel the steering vibrating a lot anything above 120km h.
i'm assuming i need to do the balancing of my tires again ?

When you rotate, did you not balance it?

Steering vibration could mean a lot of other things but since you rotate it just before might be worth to check it out.

no, didn’t balance as the tyre shop told me if no vibration then no need to do balancing

We have a beater Saga on 14' for staff attending on-site calls. Is it true there are no good grippy tires for the standard 14" wheel? Seems like they start at 15".

If 4 wheel drive or AWD you need balance tire treads to prevent early failure/wear of differential.
If the old & new 1 got wide tire tread thickness difference it may impact vehicle performance.
It is recommend to change all 4 tires and not just 2 new tires to the rear.

https://www.dunntire.com/blog/Tire-Replacem...nd-AWD-Vehicles

In fact, studies have shown that differences of just 2/32 of an inch in tire tread between tires on the same vehicle can impact vehicle performance. For example, if you were to replace just two tires on your AWD or 4WD vehicle, you would have a slightly larger diameter on the new tires, due to deeper tread. A small difference in the front and back tire diameter means the two axles are always turning at different speeds, even if the car is going straight down a highway. This is contrary to how the vehicle was designed to operate and will likely lead to early malfunction.

For all AWD/4WD system car or pickup the manual book always list to rotate the tires frequently and change all 4 at once. It is not recommended to just change either front or rear or just 1 pcs due to the reasons above.

The only way for owner to change only 2 tires is do tyre shaving by reducing the new tyre tread thickness to match the other 2 older tyre thickness or diameter, but this method is not common nowadays in Malaysia and consider a waste for new tyre. Only those old shop which do tyre celup in the past may still got these machine available, but newer shop a lot of them did not even knew about this method.

https://www.tyres.net/blog/entertainment/th...of-tyre-shaving

This post has been edited by littlefire: Jul 27 2022, 01:46 PM

When rotate it is better to at least do balancing for the front tires first, everytime i do rotate i will ask to check or do balancing for the front the cost is not much some only RM5~10/pcs.

oh i see, then i will get it balance this weekend before the long drive next week haha

thanks for the info

how many year a tyre can be use on road? been using xm2 for around 5 years but tread is still above the safety indicator

https://www.michelin.com.my/auto/tips-and-a...ge-my-car-tyres

long ago i suka bs turanza 13" and 14"
not sure recent produce size for them or not

turanza also normal comfort base tires, the real performance stuff is the Potenza series.

If want sporty types tires for smaller size can try get Maxxis or special order Yokohama/Toyo tires from Japan.
If not mistaken i got friend using Yokohama Advan series for 14" kelisa, heard the price not cheap almost 2xx/pcs.

yeameh. turanza wet & dry grip is much better than potenza s001 u know.
advan fleva must avoid.

Some potenza series are consider semi-slick or summer max performance tires, if you get those tires usually sucks in wet but during hot day the grip is damn good. If you open your window can hear those sand sticking to the tires on hot weather, better dont use it during wet condition.

Can you share with us the basics of tire thread patterns which contributes to what performance criteria?

Especially, aquaplanning, dry grip, wet grip, road noise.

Hi , TS what do you think about Falken FK510 for 215/45/R17 as im currently on RE004 and it kinda noisy especially near end of their life, it last me 50k Km

The link pretty much sums up the key ideas. Wet braking performances deteriorates as the tread depth gets lower. So you need to balance between what safety margin you need. Driving your tires down to 1.6mm with risky wet driving behaviors is not the best idea.

I honestly have no clue about Falken FK510 as there is not much public available data.

Based on my price table, here are some of the options.

Kumho Ecsta PS31 215/45R17 308
Goodyear Assurance TripleMax 2 215/45R17 308
Toyo Nano Energy NE03 215/45R17 311
Continental UC6 215/45R17 340
Yokohama Advan Fleva V701 215/45R17 345
Continental Max Contact 6 215/45R17 358
Michelin Primacy 4st 215/45R17 460
Michelin Pilot Sport 5 215/45R17 480

If your budget allows of course the best is Primacy 4st. However Continental's UC6 at RM 340 sounds like a bargain to me.

So some basics 101 about tread pattern.

for wet & dry grip, the effective contact area is the main driver. the rubber compound usually dominates and nothing much the pattern can do besides providing surface area.

While for aquaplaning the way the grooves disperse the water is highly crucial. You will normally see good aquaplaning tires with V shapes pattern and it is also made "directional" in place of asymmetrical

Pattern is one of the main contributor to noise. The more void you have the nosier your tires are. Something like mud terrain tires vs UHP tires. The difference is huge.

Alrighty , thanks for the info

FK510 strong points are wet grip & aquaplaning resistance. I'm currently using it on 225/45R19.

Since it is a UHP tire too, you can expect it to be considerably noisy.

which is the quietest tyre for c segment car?

Should be Michelin Primacy 4 or Bridgestone Turanza T005a

Good job, TS.

If the Load Index of replacement tyre is the same as the stock/as-is tyre, then similar tyre pressure on both would carry the same load.

However I suspect a replacement R16 is likely to have a higher Load Index than a R15 stock tyre, hence a lower pressure (than stock) in replacement tyre would carry the same designed loads as the stock tyre at stock pressure.

Having said that there is no harm in maintaining similar tyre pressure in a replacement tyre with higher LI, but not vice versa.

Not knowing the Load Index of both of your stock and replacement tyres, I think you should be fine and safe.

ahh thanks for the info!

Ya hmm... dilemma bro .

Im using the dunlop sp 050+ sport maxx non rft . 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 .

Was wondering will my nvh impove if i swap to primacy 3 rft ? i think its a quieter tyre for sure but will RFT degrade my driving experience in terms of harshness ?

I would say if you size has a CC6, it should be the best in comfort & noise

I had a quick look at their exterior noise performances and surprise to see dunlop sp 050+ sport maxx is rated better than Primacy 3 rft.

Run flat has an extra rubber cushion on the sidewall so that it can withstand the load of the car for certain amount of time after losing pressure. This influences the low frequency range of noise & which is mainly subjective aspect. This could be felt if you are a sensitive driver but most common drivers do not notice this.

Can you recommend comfort tyres for 235/50/R17 and 235/45/R18? Does downsizing from 18" to 17" have huge difference in term of comfort and pricing? Which size is more common?

Hi,

Can recommend which of these tires are quiet and comfortable for a G20 320i?

1) Continental UC6
2) Continental MC6
3) Pirelli P7 Cinturato

Thanks!