Good for the Philippines, but IMO something we can do without in the bigger scheme of things.
The $269 million dollars spent on 6 of the T129 attack helicopters could get us 3 squadrons of Bayraktar TB2 (for a total of 39 TB2s) with 60 million dollars to spare. Just look at how much kills and kill assists those TB2 has done in Ukraine, with impressive dynamic kills on zig-zagging fast attack crafts and hovering helicopters.
If it can wreck havoc on a superior superpower army like the Russian Armed Forces, imagine what it can do to ragtag forces such as the Sulu Army.
Serhiy Haidai, the governor of Luhansk, now says that all critical infrastructure in Severodonetsk has been destroyed. Previously, he suggested that Ukrainian forces may have to withdraw from the city and Lysychansk.
The scene of devastation in a third city, Rubizhne - in peacetime just a short drive to the north - shows what Russia's unrelenting artillery fire is capable of. Looking from Lysychansk into the distance, there is now a blot on the emerald green landscape. The small city is gone - scoured from the earth.
The way it fell some two weeks ago, marks an important shift in how Vladimir Putin's forces are now fighting the war. Gone are long armoured columns and tank and infantry attacks seen in the first months, in favour of large-scale artillery barrages - as many as 1500 shells a day in Rubizhne - to wipe out resistance before any ground advance. sos
This is literally 62.5 shells an hour, one shell landing every minute.
Good for the Philippines, but IMO something we can do without in the bigger scheme of things.
The $269 million dollars spent on 6 of the T129 attack helicopters could get us 3 squadrons of Bayraktar TB2 (for a total of 39 TB2s) with 60 million dollars to spare. Just look at how much kills and kill assists those TB2 has done in Ukraine, with impressive dynamic kills on zig-zagging fast attack crafts and hovering helicopters.
If it can wreck havoc on a superior superpower army like the Russian Armed Forces, imagine what it can do to ragtag forces such as the Sulu Army.
SHAH ALAM: Its looking likely that the Korean Aerospace (KAI) FA-50; Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas LCA and the Sino-Pakistan JF-17 will be one of the aircraft selected as RMAF next generation FLIT-LCA. This is the likely outcome after RMAF chief Gen Mohd Asghar Khan Goriman Khan in an interview with Perajurit that a physical evaluation on the selected aircraft will be conducted this June 22 and the contract is scheduled to be issued on August 22. He was quoted as saying that six aircraft will be delivered in stages in 2025. (In the interview no aircraft make was mentioned)
The interview is likely done ahead of the RMAF 64th anniversary on June 1. Anyhow, why did I said that the FA-50; Tejas and JF-17 will be among the ones selected? Well, in the written answers to my questions ahead of the anniversary, RMAF stated that six aircraft were put forward for the FLIT-LCA tender namely, the FA-50; Tejas and JF-17 and three others; the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) Hurjet; Yakovlev Yak-130 and the Mikoyan Mig-35D. As both the Russian planes are under sanctions while the Hurjet prototype will only fly next year, its obvious that only the three aircraft mentioned earlier will be the ones to be selected.
It must be noted in the written answers, RMAF did not specify the final candidates of the FLIT-LCA tender nor confirmed whether Hurjet was dropped from the final list as it remained a prototype. RMAF also stated that it planned to buy 18 FLIT-LCA in the current RMK though it is not consistent with the statement made by the RMAF chief to Perajurit. Perhaps the next 12 will be contracted for next year or the year after. If this is indeed the way of the procurement going forward, it will kill off any talk of local assembly.
My guess it will be the FA-50 as I had mentioned before. Both the Tejas and JF-17 are strong candidates but the South Korean plane is the most logical one, it has the biggest user base and are in service much longer than the other pretenders. I stand to be corrected of course. I had previously said that there were only four aircraft that entered the FLIT-LCA tender.
Anyhow, in the Perajurit interview, Gorman also said that the full report of the MPA tender will be forwarded to the Defence Ministry’s procurement committee on June 22 for a decision. In the written answers to Malaysian Defence. RMAF stated that validity period of the MPA tender has been extended to September 9, this year. The tender validity was supposed to end on June 3 (tomorrow). This will be the second time the tender’s validity is extended, the first one was done late last year, which allow it to be continued until June 3.
LIMA to return with bigger show next May, says Hishammuddin
The Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LlMA) will be organised next year from May 23 to 27 in Pulau Langkawi, Kedah after it was cancelled in 2021 due to the Covid-19 outbreak.
Senior Minister of Defence Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein said LIMA ‘23 would be held following the success of the 2022 Asian Defence Services Exhibition (DSA) and 2022 Asia National Security Exhibition (NATSEC) in March and the readiness of Malaysia after the transition to endemic phase.
To date, he said 600 exhibitors from 20 countries would be participating in LIMA ‘23 which was expected to receive 45,000 trade visitors and 380 foreign guests.
According to Hishammuddin, the LIMA ‘23 exhibition would involve 110 assets each in air and maritime fields.
“The number of exhibitors, countries involved, trade and public visitors, guests and assets are expected to go up which will make it the biggest participation ever recorded,†he said.
He was speaking at a media conference after launching LIMA ‘23 Exhibition Pre-Launch Ceremony at the Ministry of Defence Auditorium here today.
Also present were Minister of Transport Datuk Seri Wee Ka Siong; Malaysian Armed Forces chief Gen Tan Sri Affendi Buang; Army chief Gen Tan Sri Zamrose Mohd Zain; Royal Malaysian Navy chief Admiral Tan Sri Mohd Reza Mohd Sany and Royal Malaysian Air Force chief Gen Tan Sri Mohd Asghar Khan Goriman Khan.
Hishammuddin said, to ensure the smooth organisation of LIMA ‘23, the event would be coordinated jointly by the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Transport.
Meanwhile, he said that Alpine Integrated Solution Sdn Bhd had been appointed as joint organiser of the biennial event.
Commenting further, he said the LIMA ‘23 exhibition would be the best platform for defence industry companies worldwide especially aerospace and maritime to return to after not being able to do so for a long time due to Covid-19 and the postponement of LIMA ‘21.
“This can directly open up more opportunities in the effort to connect and promote strategic cooperation between local defence industry companies with their international counterparts.
“This is in line with the aim of the National Defence Industry Policy which is still being formulated,†he said.
Hishammuddin said several innovations would be witnessed at LIMA ‘23 including introducing the drone exhibition and drone race segment, space technology segment, airline chief executive officer forum, a programme for teenagers including education and career-related, e-games and a women’s segment in defence.
“On top of that, there is also a cyber security programme in the aviation and maritime industries and, of course, the exhibition of assets as well as the best air show in history.
“Together with Wee, I will ensure every aspect of preparation is scrutinised so that its impact can be felt during the actual organisation later,†he added. — Bernama
It's to nurture traditional seamanship culture...officers who had handled ropes and sails in long sea voyages....may think and behave differently than those who only know how to press buttons.
first they said russia has shitty logistics and battle plan. suddenly russia has capability to supply >50,000 shells per day to their forward arty post?
first they said russia has shitty logistics and battle plan. suddenly russia has capability to supply >50,000 shells per day to their forward arty post?
Back in March didn't they predict Russia will run out of ammunition and manpower in 10 days?
Good, logical call from the PAF, rather than getting a new type (Gripen C) that is much more expensive but with only a small performance advantage over the FA-50 Block 20.
first they said russia has shitty logistics and battle plan. suddenly russia has capability to supply >50,000 shells per day to their forward arty post?
They're firing from within friendly territory now, not occupied territory being constantly harassed by enemy forces
That also, the 50,000 figure is probably a 1 day surge effort
But it sure makes good copy for retards like WaPo
QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 15 2022, 10:24 AM)
Back in March didn't they predict Russia will run out of ammunition and manpower in 10 days?
AS IF SOME PEOPLE LIED
Who is "they"? Many people from ktard to analysts also predicted Kyiv would fall in anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks
Back in March didn't they predict Russia will run out of ammunition and manpower in 10 days?
AS IF SOME PEOPLE LIED
They are already depleting their manpower resources, and now accepting old volunteers into the army.
But as a country they have massive ammunition reserves, stretching back to WW2. Even that, we can see that they have depleted many precision strike weapons. For example there has not been many Iskander Tactical ballistic missile launches for weeks now, most probably they have fired so many and now reserving the few remaining. As is the use of anti-ship missiles now to attack ground targets.
The longer Russia is stuck in Ukraine, the weaker its army will become. If they cannot wrap up the war in a year's time, they probably will not be able to repeat what it did to Ukraine to any other European countries, especially to Poland and Finland.
Right now, Malaysia has just 28 pieces of G5 155mm Howitzers, with 4 of them attached to PUSATRI training centre.
We have zero 155mm artilleries in Sabah and Sarawak.
The quickest, easiest and cheapest way to stand up a 155mm Regiment in East Malaysia is for us to get the 12 units of G5 howitzers retired by Qatar (replaced with PZH 2000 SPH)
To be able to form
1 regiment of 3 batteries of G5 155mm in West Malaysia (18 Howitzers)
1 regiment of 3 batteries of G5 155mm in East Malaysia (18 Howitzers)
this is the slippery slope problem for any military choked by the bean counters
They expected the FA-50 as an cheap fighter conversion plane after having none for almost 2 decades with the intention of getting a more capable one down the line. but what happened is that the bean counter saw this as an effective solution and ordered more instead of getting an actual fighter plane like F-16 or gripen
it's like saying Wii's sexy poker as a competent replacement for an actual intercourse
Right now, Malaysia has just 28 pieces of G5 155mm Howitzers, with 4 of them attached to PUSATRI training centre.
We have zero 155mm artilleries in Sabah and Sarawak.
The quickest, easiest and cheapest way to stand up a 155mm Regiment in East Malaysia is for us to get the 12 units of G5 howitzers retired by Qatar (replaced with PZH 2000 SPH)
To be able to form
1 regiment of 3 batteries of G5 155mm in West Malaysia (18 Howitzers)
1 regiment of 3 batteries of G5 155mm in East Malaysia (18 Howitzers)
1 training battery at PUSATRI (4 Howitzers)
Kinda a waste to see FH-70 being retired. I doubt the they're used that extensively anyway as our go to artillery pieces are the oto melaras and 81mm mortar and 155mm howitzer is only brought in when both were adequate for the job (and considering our engagement history for the last 40 years, those are few and far in between)
this is the slippery slope problem for any military choked by the bean counters
They expected the FA-50 as an cheap fighter conversion plane after having none for almost 2 decades with the intention of getting a more capable one down the line. but what happened is that the bean counter saw this as an effective solution and ordered more instead of getting an actual fighter plane like F-16 or gripen
it's like saying Wii's sexy poker as a competent replacement for an actual intercourse
F-16 an actual fighter plane? Yes.
Gripen C? You have been fooled by SAAB bombastic advertorial claims. It is not much better than a FA-50 while costing so much more.
Kinda a waste to see FH-70 being retired. I doubt the they're used that extensively anyway as our go to artillery pieces are the oto melaras and 81mm mortar and 155mm howitzer is only brought in when both were adequate for the job (and considering our engagement history for the last 40 years, those are few and far in between)
FH-70 is a problematic system.
very low barrel life for a howitzer.
quirky loading mechanisms.
lots of parts easily damaged in normal operations.
The G5 is probably one of the best designed howitzers ever, with its modular propellant systems now copied world over.
Gripen C? You have been fooled by SAAB bombastic advertorial claims. It is not much better than a FA-50 while costing so much more.
but it is much better than FA-50. at least right now. much better radar even tho still not AESA, could do plenty of mission, greater payload selection, etc
When FA-50 finally able to launch BVR and an actual ASM, (not just AGM-65 or those puny helicopter based ASM) sure FA-50 isn't that much worse than gripen.
Right now tho? no
This post has been edited by ayanami_tard: Jun 15 2022, 11:31 AM
but it is much better than FA-50. at least right now. much better radar even tho still not AESA, could do plenty of mission, greater payload selection, etc
When FA-50 finally able to launch BVR and an actual ASM, (not just AGM-65 or those puny helicopter based ASM) sure FA-50 isn't that much worse than gripen.
Right now tho? no
We are paying for it aren't we? The Korean paper quotes a 43 mil dollar a jet price for our purchase of fa50.
Pinoy & indo has every right to take advantage of it.
We are paying for it aren't we? The Korean paper quotes a 43 mil dollar a jet price for our purchase of fa50.
Pinoy & indo has every right to take advantage of it.
kek no. why would we pay for them. Both sniper pod and cobham ifr integration is already being done before any concrete order from malaysia came.
if they're really want to go for TUDM LCA bonanza (the af is ooking to by up to 50 airframes btw), bvr and asm integration is the least of thing they should offer us from the get go
Germany denies the sale of MTU396 diesel engine to China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), Royal Thai Navy's S26T Yuan submarine. CSOC proposes the use of China's CHD620 engine, but rejected by Thailand. Royal Thai Navy gives China firm 2 months to solve the problem https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/genera...a-firm-2-months
Germany denies the sale of MTU396 diesel engine to China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co (CSOC), Royal Thai Navy's S26T Yuan submarine. CSOC proposes the use of China's CHD620 engine, but rejected by Thailand. Royal Thai Navy gives China firm 2 months to solve the problem https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/genera...a-firm-2-months
the tongshan engine is also partly german (or at least developed from german technology) but difference is that it's based off Caterpillar civilian grade marine engine
afaik companies like yanmar oso provide comparable marine diesel engine
the tongshan engine is also partly german (or at least developed from german technology) but difference is that it's based off Caterpillar civilian grade marine engine
afaik companies like yanmar oso provide comparable marine diesel engine
Power density of German engines are still unbeatable. For the engine size n weight, German engines has more power output. Deswai in marine applications, you'll see a lot of German engines occupy the sales chart. Medium speed engines, Jepunis engines tops the chart, whilst for high speed high power density, German engines and Cat seems to be the CHOICE
kek no. why would we pay for them. Both sniper pod and cobham ifr integration is already being done before any concrete order from malaysia came.
if they're really want to go for TUDM LCA bonanza (the af is ooking to by up to 50 airframes btw), bvr and asm integration is the least of thing they should offer us from the get go
They can offer anything as long as we going to pay for it.😂
U.S. Army Pacific and the Malaysian Army officially began the 26th edition of Keris Strike 2022 after a combined opening ceremony at Camp SG Buloh, Malaysia, June 11, 2022.
Keris Strike is a bilateral Army-to-Army exercise between the Malaysian Army and United States Army Pacific (USARPAC) that focuses on enhancing partner land force capacity and capabilities, addresses internal security challenges, and increases interoperability that reaffirms shared security commitments to the Indo-Pacific region.
The 25th Infantry Division (ID) Deputy Commander of Interoperability Col. Micheal van Welie addressed the combined formation on the importance of partnership and training together as the guest speaker representing USARPAC.
“This exercise is crucial to enhancing our joint capability as we strive for a free and open Indo-Pacific,†van Welie said. “We are excited to commence this year's training and learn from one another.â€
Soldiers assigned to the 3rd Cavalry, 4th Squadron, 3rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 25th ID will train with their Malaysian counterparts on jungle skills, military operations in urban terrain, live fire exercises, and conduct a myriad of subject matter expert exchanges where Soldiers share best practices within their field of study.
Although van Welie discussed the importance of training together, he also highlighted the need of enhancing the partnership on a personal level.
“I ask that you all get to know each other over the course of this exercise,†van Welie said. “This creates a bond, and an understanding between one another that can only push us forward.â€
They can offer anything as long as we going to pay for it.😂
not for integration cost we're not
if we did we should ask for ToT and royalties for each subsequent sales or upgrade that uses the integration upgrade that is borne by our taxpayers money, like what UAE did with their F-16 block 60
Members reaffirm support to FPDA pact as an important mechanism to manage regional tensions
Top officials from Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand and Britain said today that their 51-year-old Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA) pact was solid, relevant and crucial to managing rising tensions in the region.
After meeting on the sidelines of the Shangri-La Dialogue, the officials told a news conference that the relationship among the member nations was warm, and that they were focused on the future even amid increasing geopolitical complexities.
As tensions in the region increase sharply, particularly between China and US allies, the FPDA has great relevance as a moderating force, said Malaysia’s Senior Minister for Defence, Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein.
“My biggest concern is unintended incidents and accidents that may spiral out of control and make it bigger than what it is,†Hishammuddin said. “If these platforms (such as the FPDA) did not exist, there wouldn’t be any opportunity to manage incidents that do sometimes go out of control.†Hishammuddin, Singaporean Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen, Australian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence Richard Marles, New Zealand Defence Minister Peeni Henare and British High Commissioner to Singapore Kara Owen also reaffirmed their commitment to the FPDA and noted its relevance for the future.
“Australia is deeply committed to the FPDA,†Marles said. “It’s not something we take for granted.†— Reuters
Indian military reforms introduce short-term service under 'Agnipath' recruitment scheme
Unveiling Agnipath, a “major defence policy reform†for recruitment of soldiers, sailors and airmen into the Indian Army, Indian Navy and Indian Air Force, the government Tuesday announced that personnel recruited under the scheme on short-term contractual basis will be called Agniveers.
The scheme, the government said, comes into effect immediately and will create “a much more youthful and technically adept war fighting force by ensuring a fine balance between youthful and experienced personnel†in the armed forces.
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, General Manoj Pande, Admiral R Hari Kumar and Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari briefed the media after the proposal was approved by the Cabinet Committee on Security. The Agnipath scheme — it had earlier been proposed as Tour of Duty — is expected to make the permanent force levels leaner in the over 1.3 million strong armed forces.
Under the scheme, most soldiers will leave the service in just four years. Of the 45,000 to 50,000 recruited annually, only 25 per cent will be allowed to continue for another 15 years under permanent commission. This will considerably reduce the defence pension bill which has been a major concern of governments for many years.
Recruitment will begin within 90 days which will bring “all India, all class†recruitment to the services. This is especially significant for the Army where the regiment system has region and caste bases, and with time that will be eliminated to allow anybody from any caste, region, class or religious background to become part of existing regiments.
Several veterans have raised concerns about how this new structure can be detrimental to the existing structure, where loyalty towards the regiment and battalion, and retaining their pride, play a significant role as a motivator in the harshest of circumstances.
The average age in the forces is 32 years today, which will go down to 26 in six to seven years under Agnipath. It will create “future-ready†soldiers, said Lt Gen Anil Puri, Additional Secretary, Department of Military Affairs.
Under the new system, which is only for personnel below officer ranks (those who do not join the forces as commissioned officers), aspirants between the ages of 17.5 years and 21 years will be eligible to apply.
Once selected, the aspirants will go through training for six months and will then be deployed for three-and-a-half years. During this period, they will get a starting salary of Rs 30,000 ($384), along with additional benefits which will go up to Rs 40,000 ($512) by the end of the four-year service.
After four years, only 25 per cent of the batch will be recruited back into their respective services, for a period of 15 years. For those who are re-selected, the initial four-year period will not be considered for retirement benefits.
Lt Gen Puri said the government will help rehabilitate soldiers who leave the services after four years. There will be a “whole of government†approach, and they will be provided with skill certificates and bridge courses. The impetus will be to create entrepreneurs, he said.
According to data shared by the Ministry of Defence with Parliament on March 28, more than 100,000 positions for junior commissioned officers and other ranks are vacant in the Army.
The Department of Budget and Management released the initial funding worth PHP3 billion for the Philippine Navy's (PN)'s acquisition of six offshore patrol vessels (OPVs). https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1176903
This post has been edited by Frozen_Sun: Jun 18 2022, 01:10 PM
Syrian factions set up joint operations command under Russian & Iranian supervision to counter Turkey
Several Syrian groups and battalions with different affiliations announced the formation of a joint operations room under Russian and Iranian supervision ahead of an imminent Turkish operation in northern Syria.
The so-called North Thunderbolt joint operations room is located at a Russian base in the village of Hardatnin in the northern countryside of Aleppo.
The operations room includes the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG); a battalion affiliated with the Iran-backed Fatemiyoun; a battalion affiliated with the Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement; Iranian-backed groups from the towns of Nubl and al-Zahraa; formations of the Syrian regime forces from the towns of Abna al-Sahel, Hayyan, Haraytan, Anadan and Masakan; and the Baath Brigades.
The operations room will be supervised by two Russian officers, three officers from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, three Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) leaders and two leaders from the regime forces.
The North Thunderbolt operations room aims to manage the military field in the area, in addition to coordinating and securing lines of withdrawal and supply for the YPG in the event of a Turkish attack.
Fayez al-Asmar, a military analyst and strategic expert and a defected colonel from the Syrian regime residing in Turkey, told Al-Monitor, “The Russians are investing the Turkish threats to pressure the SDF to hand over its areas of control in Tal Rifaat and Manbij to the regime before losing them, as happened in the Olive Branch and Peace Spring operations, through which the Turkish army took control of the cities of Afrin, Tell Abyad and Ras al-Ain. Russia aims to control these areas to pressure the opposition-controlled areas and keep the Turkish forces away from Nubl and al-Zahraa.
The new field development comes in light of increasing Turkish threats to launch a military operation against an SDF-controlled area in northeastern Syria.
Abdulaziz al-Khalifa, a correspondent for the pro-opposition Baladi news agency, told Al-Monitor, “Russia aims to gather all Iranian militias and allied forces affiliated with the regime under one operations room to control their movements and use them to confront Turkey.â€
Meanwhile, Ankara still insists on carrying out the operation without specifying a date, in conjunction with maneuvers, military exercises, and reinforcements for the Turkish and opposition forces in the countryside of Aleppo.
if we did we should ask for ToT and royalties for each subsequent sales or upgrade that uses the integration upgrade that is borne by our taxpayers money, like what UAE did with their F-16 block 60
Am not seeing any evidence that the Korean are paying for integration cost.
SHAH ALAM: Remember the rare Iveco Daily MCRS (Multi Channel Radio System) vehicle featured in Malaysian Defence back in March 2021, at the height of the Covid 19 pandemic? It appears that the MCRS fitted on them are procured from Kongsberg, the Norway based defence and security company.
I am basing this on a Facebook posting by the Army on the visit of its chief, General Zamrose Mohd Zain to the company in Asker, Norway.
LAWATAN KERJA PANGLIMA TENTERA DARAT KE KONGSBERG DEFENCE & AEROSPACE NORWAY, 18 Jun 2022 – Panglima Tentera Darat (PTD), Jeneral Tan Sri Zamrose bin Mohd Zain telah menghadiri mesyuarat dan lawatan kerja ke syarikat Konsberg Defence & Aerospace di Asker, Norway hari ini. Ketibaan Tan Sri PTD telah disambut oleh wakil syarikat, Pengarah Pasaran dan Jualan, Mr. Viggo Westbye, Pengurus Projek, Mr. Brynjuif Pedersen dan Pengurus Pembangunan Perniagaan, Mr. Bjorn Eversen. Semasa sesi mesyuarat tersebut, Tan Sri PTD telah diberikan taklimat latar belakang syarikat dan produk-produk serta kepakaran syarikat berhubung sistem bagi pertahanan, aero angkasa dan maritim. Sistem pertahanan tersebut meliputi sistem komunikasi, sistem pertahanan udara dan persenjataan misil serta ‘space and satelite capability’ terutama untuk keselamatan perairan contohnya perairan Selat Melaka dan perairan Sabah. Tan Sri PTD juga telah mengutarakan beberapa isu seperti pembekalan ‘Multi Channel Radio System’ (MCRS) yang akan datang perlu mematuhi segala terma yang termaktub di dalam kontrak, setiap peralatan yang dibekalkan hendaklah memenuhi keperluan operasi dan teknikal terkini untuk Tentera Darat, masa pembekalan (lead time) terutamanya alat ganti perlu dikurangkan dan sekiranya wujud keperluan untuk kemaskini sistem pada masa akan datang perlulah berada pada tahap yang optimum tanpa melibatkan banyak birokrasi antara agensi tempatan dengan OEM serta tiada bebanan kewangan yang melampau. Sesungguhnya lawatan kerja sebegini adalah selaras dengan Tonggak Pertama Perintah Ulung Panglima Tentera Darat Ke-28, “Kelangsungan Misi dan Kesiagaan†dengan memberi penumpuan kepada peningkatan tahap kesiagaan, kompetensi dan aset TDM.
It must be said that the posting is ambiguous on the status of MCRS as it stated that “pembekalan MCRS – future supply of MCRS – which could mean that Kongsberg is supplying new MCRS in the near future. This could also mean that they are supplying a new batch of MCRS. Anyhow, this still could mean that the Army Signals unit will be using a Kongsberg supplied MCRS so my guess is still correct.
A check on the Kongsberg webpage revealed likely MCRS system supplied is the UM600 tactical brand radio or the MRR Tactical VHF IP Radio System, both of which belongs to the Kongsberg K-Tacs On-The-Move, the company suite of products supporting military units on the move with robust, secure and reliable radio communication, both in the VHF and in the UHF band.
What is interesting the MRR is the standard tactical radio in NASAMS Air Defence Systems. With the Army planning to buy a MRAD system during this, wouldn’t it be the de facto air defence system of choice already? — Malaysian Defence
maybe precursor of NASAMS Air Defence Systems acquisition ?
Am not seeing any evidence that the Korean are paying for integration cost.
what i meant is if they want the LCA contract they should offer BVR integration for free
or if they insist on us paying for those integration cost, any subsequent order/upgrade from other countries that uses the integration that we, malaysian taxpayers, paid for, we should ask for royalty like UAE did with F-16 block 60
then we see if kai wanna pay royalty for us now that Polen , columbia and pinoy oso want a more capable FA-50 that could also shoots BVR missile
what i meant is if they want the LCA contract they should offer BVR integration for free
or if they insist on us paying for those integration cost, any subsequent order/upgrade from other countries that uses the integration that we, malaysian taxpayers, paid for, we should ask for royalty like UAE did with F-16 block 60
then we see if kai wanna pay royalty for us now that Polen , columbia and pinoy oso want a more capable FA-50 that could also shoots BVR missile
The Korean might be interested in paying for some of the BVR cost. If the BVR in question is not AMRAAM. They do not need anymore jet that can shoot amraam. But they might be interested in a jet that can shoot derby or meteor.
If The BVR in question is AMRAAM then no. We have to pays it ourselves and integration cost amount to around $15 mil a jet or around RM1 billions. The aesa radar itself only cost $0.5mil to $1mil. We could ask for royalty or whatever but we aren't getting much back of the money we invested for such integration that would make it worthwhile.
from the drone video, the battlefield in ukraine really is flat land as far as eye can see. no wonder ukraine army entrench inside town or city to fight russian army.
from the drone video, the battlefield in ukraine really is flat land as far as eye can see. no wonder ukraine army entrench inside town or city to fight russian army.
that is literally the definition of the European Plains. Wide open ground where mass armor and artillery are the main form of land warfare.
PT PAL 143-meter frigate design unveiled in 7th PhilMarine 2022 event
So finally we can see the PT PAL version of the ARROWHEAD 140 frigate design.
My initial opinion?
If Malaysia wants to get the ARROWHEAD 140, please get the original design.
I really don't know why and i really cannot wrap my head on the reasons that they modify the design to become the PT PAL 143m frigate.
1. why do you relocate all your vertical launchers to the bow area? that will have lots of stability calculations that need to be done.
2. why do you shorten your superstructure? the biggest advantage of the ARROWHEAD 140 design is the massive volume of space inside its superstructure. Big hangar space to fit helicopter + UAV. Big boat hangar to able to carry multiple RHIB + USVs. The PT PAL 143m design eleminates the biggest advantage of the ARROWHEAD 140. So why did they do that?
So finally we can see the PT PAL version of the ARROWHEAD 140 frigate design.
My initial opinion?
If Malaysia wants to get the ARROWHEAD 140, please get the original design.
I really don't know why and i really cannot wrap my head on the reasons that they modify the design to become the PT PAL 143m frigate.
1. why do you relocate all your vertical launchers to the bow area? that will have lots of stability calculations that need to be done.
2. why do you shorten your superstructure? the biggest advantage of the ARROWHEAD 140 design is the massive volume of space inside its superstructure. Big hangar space to fit helicopter + UAV. Big boat hangar to able to carry multiple RHIB + USVs. The PT PAL 143m design eleminates the biggest advantage of the ARROWHEAD 140. So why did they do that?
There's still Vertical launcher on the middle of the ship with additional VLS at the bow. The middle VLS is likely for tomahawk or/and SM2 as the Danes had recently paid for the system integration on tops of ballistics missiles detection. While the bow is for CaMM or/and ESSM or it equivalent
Seem they are building a FREMM out of the type 31 rather than a multirole combat ship type thing as the type 32 would. As unlike the type 31 they do not just do local defence AAW like type 31 but also carry over Asw & Asuw system from Iver Huitfeldt & absalon. Its likely going to be cheaper than the fremm too . If anything it just proof the versatility of the absalon design as it could be anything from a mini MRSS to a combat ship.
This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Jun 23 2022, 03:58 PM
There's still Vertical launcher on the middle of the ship with additional VLS at the bow. The middle VLS is likely for tomahawk or/and SM2 as the Danes had recently paid for the system integration on tops of ballistics missiles detection. While the bow is for CaMM or/and ESSM or it equivalent
Seem they are building a FREMM out of the type 31 rather than a multirole combat ship type thing as the type 32 would. As unlike the type 31 they do not just do local defence AAW like type 31 but also carry over Asw & Asuw system from Iver Huitfeldt & absalon. Its likely going to be cheaper than the fremm too . If anything it just proof the versatility of the absalon design as it could be anything from a mini MRSS to a combat ship.
You dont need to modify and shorten the superstructure to fire CAMM or ESSM. All the original iver huitfeldt and Type 31 can perfectly fire CAMM and ESSM from the central location. The original iver huitfeldt frigate is already as capable as the FREMM frigate.
I would understand if you modify it to do something the original design cannot do. But the problem is, even the original design is capable to do it.
Which is why i don't understand the reason for the Indonesians to mutilate the ARROWHEAD 140 design to do something that even the original design is able to do perfectly.
Unlike the PT PAL 143m frigate design, this I believe is a superb idea and a good modification to the original LPD design.
TLDM could have a good use of a ship similar to this.
It allows the submarine fleet to be dispersed in wartime situation, allowing the submarine fleet to operate away from its main base, or even operate in case the main base (in our case just teluk sepanggar) is destroyed by the enemy.
But can the tender become target itself like aircraft carrier?
of course
but it is a better probability for the submarine fleet survival rathar than having none.
it also allows the submarines to regularly operate at locations far from base, like say from. kuala terengganu for example, or allowing our submarines to operate out of foreign naval base, like singapore or vietnam.
but it is a better probability for the submarine fleet survival rathar than having none.
it also allows the submarines to regularly operate at locations far from base, like say from. kuala terengganu for example, or allowing our submarines to operate out of foreign naval base, like singapore or vietnam.
Curious if let's say Malaysia orders it, can it also function as MRSS which is needed under 15 to 5 plan or this is different class
You dont need to modify and shorten the superstructure to fire CAMM or ESSM. All the original iver huitfeldt and Type 31 can perfectly fire CAMM and ESSM from the central location. The original iver huitfeldt frigate is already as capable as the FREMM frigate.
I would understand if you modify it to do something the original design cannot do. But the problem is, even the original design is capable to do it.
Which is why i don't understand the reason for the Indonesians to mutilate the ARROWHEAD 140 design to do something that even the original design is able to do perfectly.
their version has a bigger longer hulls as well as 1000 tons++ heavier.
if not mistaken the constellation slaughter the beautiful FREMM design as their additional equipment & weapon they intend to carry makes the ship heavier is more then what they engine could provide thus they cut the upper front hull & super structure to reduce weight as they want to operate at higher speed.
it could also be just cost cutting exercise as TNI-AL is a territorial defense forces thus they don't need huge internal volume or they don't need to carry USV,UUV or UAV.
or it could also be for redundancy as most warship is design with the aft and front can work independently if the ship is hit and thus a lot of cruiser have VLS sit on both the middle & front
its up to each individual navy to determine what is their priorities or what they could tolerate & sacrifice on the design. if RMN ever get something from an absalon platform then i would say it would likely be a multirole combat version. but doing so would tip the scale as it would be less good on the combat side to facilitate the multirole capability something that TNI-AL may not need or dont want to sacrifices.
personally an OPV version of the first irritation of absalon with a RoRO ability is a perfect fit for MMEA & PDRM mothership requirement.
their version has a bigger longer hulls as well as 1000 tons++ heavier.
if not mistaken the constellation slaughter the beautiful FREMM design as their additional equipment & weapon they intend to carry makes the ship heavier is more then what they engine could provide thus they cut the upper front hull & super structure to reduce weight as they want to operate at higher speed.
it could also be just cost cutting exercise as TNI-AL is a territorial defense forces thus they don't need huge internal volume or they don't need to carry USV,UUV or UAV.
or it could also be for redundancy as most warship is design with the aft and front can work independently if the ship is hit and thus a lot of cruiser have VLS sit on both the middle & front its up to each individual navy to determine what is their priorities or what they could tolerate & sacrifice on the design. if RMN ever get something from an absalon platform then i would say it would likely be a multirole combat version. but doing so would tip the scale as it would be less good on the combat side to facilitate the multirole capability something that TNI-AL may not need or dont want to sacrifices.
personally an OPV version of the first irritation of absalon with a RoRO ability is a perfect fit for MMEA & PDRM mothership requirement.
The length difference is just a measly 4.3m.
The Indonesian frigate is actually 90 tons lighter than the Iver Huitfeldt.
The constellation class major redesign is to fit various sensors and weapons thst are totally different to any existing FREMM frigates. Which justifies its massive cost. But the Indonesian frigate will fit all weapons that already fitted or planned on the Iver Huitfeldt and Type 31. No different weapons to justify the massive redesign. With the redesign actually reduces the capability of the ship, rather than if just follow the original design. The original Type 31 design can carry all the weapons the PT PAL 143m design can, while having loads of spaces for UAV, USV and UUV.
BTW if you want a roro/lpd for MMEA, just buy the Makassar, paint it white and be done with it. It will just cost you USD49 million, which is less than a fifth of the price of the Absalon.
The Indonesian frigate is actually 90 tons lighter than the Iver Huitfeldt.
The constellation class major redesign is to fit various sensors and weapons thst are totally different to any existing FREMM frigates. Which justifies its massive cost. But the Indonesian frigate will fit all weapons that already fitted or planned on the Iver Huitfeldt and Type 31. No different weapons to justify the massive redesign. With the redesign actually reduces the capability of the ship, rather than if just follow the original design. The original Type 31 design can carry all the weapons the PT PAL 143m design can, while having loads of spaces for UAV, USV and UUV.
BTW if you want a roro/lpd for MMEA, just buy the Makassar, paint it white and be done with it. It will just cost you USD49 million, which is less than a fifth of the price of the Absalon.
Hard to say what's goes in inside TNI. They don't publish their MEF plan publicly, they show poor attempt at following through with the MEF nor anyone are sure what they trying to do with 3 different dual engine 4.5 gen jet Nor why they ordered both Hercules & atlas.
The makassar is built on top of a public ferry. Its not going to be able to be deployed in even a low intensity area without an excort.
An OPV version of Absalon with most of it combat ability removed should be about twice the price of Makassar. MMEA & PDRM is still a gendemarie and a part of defense structure, so there should be some surveillance equipment from the absalon platform that they need that would be plug & play on the absalon platform but needed integration cost for Makassar.
Hard to say what's goes in inside TNI. They don't publish their MEF plan publicly, they show poor attempt at following through with the MEF nor anyone are sure what they trying to do with 3 different dual engine 4.5 gen jet Nor why they ordered both Hercules & atlas. The makassar is built on top of a public ferry. Its not going to be able to be deployed in even a low intensity area without an excort. An OPV version of Absalon with most of it combat ability removed should be about twice the price of Makassar. MMEA & PDRM is still a gendemarie and a part of defense structure, so there should be some surveillance equipment from the absalon platform that they need that would be plug & play on the absalon platform but needed integration cost for Makassar.
By your reasoning
A LPD design good enough for the Navies of Indonesia, Philippines, Peru, Myanmar is not good enough for Malaysian Coast Guard??
So is a Honda Civic not good enough for police patrol, need to use Leopard 2 MBT?
A LPD design good enough for the Navies of Indonesia, Philippines, Peru, Myanmar is not good enough for Malaysian Coast Guard??
So is a Honda Civic not good enough for police patrol, need to use Leopard 2 MBT?
honda civic is good enough for civilian police roles. its not enough for gendarmerie like PGA.
the makassar at best is the low in the high low mix. equivalent to the spain navy RoRo or the USN LAW concept. but both navies still have an aircraft carrier as their strategic lift platforms.
United Arab Emirates Navy orders six LPD 163 from PT PAL
July 4, 2022 / by  Author Rangga Baswara Sawiyya
AIRSPACE REVIEW (airspace-review.com) – Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL (Persero) signed a contract with the United Arab Emirates Navy (UAEN) for the procurement of six LPD (landing platform dock) vessels.
The contract was signed on July 1, 2022, during the visit of Indonesian President Joko Widodo to Abu Dhabi, who was accompanied by the Indonesian Minister of Defense Prabowo Subianto.
PT PAL itself has offered its LPD design to the UAE Ministry of Defense (MoD) since 2020 in response to Requests for Information (RFI) released to several international shipbuilders.
The LPD design from PT PAL chosen is the 163 m variant. This is much longer than the version ordered by the Philippine Navy in June 2022, the 123 m version.
IMO this is the best example of defence ToT implementation in South East Asia.
Moving from ToT, to minor modification so that no need to pay design commission fee anymore, to export of modified design and now diversifying the original design for other purposes like hospital ship and submarine tender.
At this moment, Singapore has roughly 800 Bionix series vehicles of all types in service alongside the remaining M113s. Around 100 Leopard 2SG Main Battle Tanks (96 upgraded delivered between 2006 and 2009), replacing the long-obsolete AMX-13SM1 Light Tanks Around 100 older Leopard 2A4 tanks (some were or are upgraded to the 2SG standard so the exact number of 2SG tanks in service is unknown) 435 Terrex APCs (modern wheeled indigenous APCs) 400-600 Bronco tracked carriers 40 or so Primus SPGs (a modified M109 hull with an ST Kinetics turret featuring a 155mm L/39 howitzer)
BBC Ukraine: A new law will enter into force on October 1, according to which women of a number of professions will become conscripts. The General Staff of the Armed Forces explained how women will be registered for military registration.
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has developed proposals for changes to the list of professions, after obtaining which women will be enrolled in the military register.
The order stipulates that from October 1, 2022, women who have the specialties and/or professions specified in Appendix 1 to the order will be included in the military registration of conscripts.
Earlier in social networks and some mass media, information appeared that after October 1, when the system of military registration of women will be operational, and martial law will be maintained, they may be prohibited from traveling outside Ukraine.
However, this requirement applies equally to women and men and it is already in effect in Ukraine.
According to the law, conscripts can travel abroad under certain circumstances. And in the same way, both men and women who are on the military register are subject to certain restrictions.
LIMA to return with bigger show next May, says Hishammuddin
The Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LlMA) will be organised next year from May 23 to 27 in Pulau Langkawi, Kedah after it was cancelled in 2021 due to the Covid-19 outbreak.
Senior Minister of Defence Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein said LIMA ‘23 would be held following the success of the 2022 Asian Defence Services Exhibition (DSA) and 2022 Asia National Security Exhibition (NATSEC) in March and the readiness of Malaysia after the transition to endemic phase.
To date, he said 600 exhibitors from 20 countries would be participating in LIMA ‘23 which was expected to receive 45,000 trade visitors and 380 foreign guests.
According to Hishammuddin, the LIMA ‘23 exhibition would involve 110 assets each in air and maritime fields.
“The number of exhibitors, countries involved, trade and public visitors, guests and assets are expected to go up which will make it the biggest participation ever recorded,†he said.
He was speaking at a media conference after launching LIMA ‘23 Exhibition Pre-Launch Ceremony at the Ministry of Defence Auditorium here today.
Also present were Minister of Transport Datuk Seri Wee Ka Siong; Malaysian Armed Forces chief Gen Tan Sri Affendi Buang; Army chief Gen Tan Sri Zamrose Mohd Zain; Royal Malaysian Navy chief Admiral Tan Sri Mohd Reza Mohd Sany and Royal Malaysian Air Force chief Gen Tan Sri Mohd Asghar Khan Goriman Khan.
Hishammuddin said, to ensure the smooth organisation of LIMA ‘23, the event would be coordinated jointly by the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Transport.
Meanwhile, he said that Alpine Integrated Solution Sdn Bhd had been appointed as joint organiser of the biennial event.
Commenting further, he said the LIMA ‘23 exhibition would be the best platform for defence industry companies worldwide especially aerospace and maritime to return to after not being able to do so for a long time due to Covid-19 and the postponement of LIMA ‘21.
“This can directly open up more opportunities in the effort to connect and promote strategic cooperation between local defence industry companies with their international counterparts.
“This is in line with the aim of the National Defence Industry Policy which is still being formulated,†he said.
Hishammuddin said several innovations would be witnessed at LIMA ‘23 including introducing the drone exhibition and drone race segment, space technology segment, airline chief executive officer forum, a programme for teenagers including education and career-related, e-games and a women’s segment in defence.
“On top of that, there is also a cyber security programme in the aviation and maritime industries and, of course, the exhibition of assets as well as the best air show in history.
“Together with Wee, I will ensure every aspect of preparation is scrutinised so that its impact can be felt during the actual organisation later,†he added. — Bernama
I check Resorts World Langkawi already fully booked from 23-27 May 2023, the ships are displayed at this hotel right? Any recommended other hotel to book?
Is this the same indian source which stated malaysia has already bought or decided to buy the Tejas? Malaysia, Singapore, vietnam etc. all going to buy Brahmos - from the report. Sounds like India or some indians are trying to push a narrative 2 influence sales.
The Russian entity which designed the missile and produces the engines (and produces other Russian missiles) is sanctioned by the US and Europe. This will most likely invite US Caatsa and European retaliations against buyers with respect to military purchases and maintanence of current military equipment.
Also you cannot simply slap russian missiles onto western systems. There is a reason why the pinoys only purchased land based systems and even so, the question remains as to what radar or sensors they can use to guide the missiles in the first place. And the pinoys got them b4 the russia-ukraine war.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Jul 25 2022, 03:04 AM
Has Indo actually made good on all the announcements on buying i cant recall x number if rafales, f15s, kf 21s, apaches, ospreys, fremms, armada of 274 ships by 2024 (with 110 new strike ships), dozens of home made submarines etc?
Or are these just talk?
I note that these r contingent almost entirely on foreign loans. Crowd fund it like the proposed new indo capital?
This post has been edited by Mai189: Jul 25 2022, 02:59 AM
Has Indo actually made good on all the announcements on buying i cant recall x number if rafales, f15s, kf 21s, apaches, ospreys, fremms, armada of 274 ships by 2024 (with 110 new strike ships), dozens of home made submarines etc?
Or are these just talk?
I note that these r contingent almost entirely on foreign loans. Crowd fund it like the proposed new indo capital?
Both engines will increase range (+10% to 20%), thrust and acceleration (+ 10% to 20% (in tests this is as high as +30%)) and thermal capacity (+50%).
When installed, the F35 will be more nimble, faster* and maneuverable than ever before and with the spare energy to incorporate direct energy weapons like long range lasers.
The P&W offer is the most logical choice as it evolutionary and readily available for all 3 models of F35s. GE's is more revolutionary - they made prototypes for F35 A/Cs for now and will build the prototype for Bs later.
* F35 current max speed in stealth mode is Mach 1.61 (performance envelope is closer to Mach 1.9 in tests to give allowance for sudden need for speed). Non stealthy 4.5 gen aircrafts speed drops significantly as they carry weapons which create even more drag (abt <Mach 1.2) - hence, the F35 in its current iteration is already faster than 4.5 gen aircrafts. The F35 can also supercruise w4 afterburners so it can maintain supersonic speed for a much longer time.
Construction progress of Indonesian Navy new Hospital Ship (based from the Makassar LPD) with pennant number 992 have reached 81% at PT PAL shipyard.
Is Indonesia still paying licensing fees to DaeSun Shipbuilding (South Korea) for the Makassar class and/or Makassar class derived ships ? It is Daesun which designed the ship.
Indonesia and Perus bought the license to build and sell them.
Indonesian shipbuilder bags contract to supply landing platform dock to United Arab Emirates
 The 163m LPD design from PT PAL. Photo c/o Valleryan through MaxDefense Philippines.
Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL (Persero) has signed a contract with United Arab Emirates Navy (UAEN).
The contract was signed on 01 July 2022, and was part of a total of six agreements between Indonesian and the United Arab Emirates signed during the visit of Indonesian President Joko Widodo to Abu Dhabi.
PT PAL has offered its landing platform dock (LPD) design to the UAE Ministry of Defence (MoD) since 2020 in response to Request for Information released to several international shipbuilders.
The design selected is a 163-meter variant of PT PAL’s LPD design, which is longer than the variant ordered by the Philippines last June 2022, and is closer to the design offered by PT PAL to meet the Royal Malaysian Navy’s Multi-Role Support Ship (MRSS) program.
The additional length allows for a longer helicopter landing facility for 3 medium helicopters, and a hangar large enough to accommodate 2 medium helicopters.
It also has highly customizable payload bays, and equipped with an automated launch and recovery system for Rigid Hull Inflatable Boats (RHIB) and landing crafts.
According to Indonesian sources, the ship has a displacement of around 12,500 tonnes, a beam of 24 meters, a draft of 6 meters, and is capable of achieving a maximum speed of 18 knots and a cruising speed of 15 knots.
It can be armed with a variety of weapon systems including a 76mm naval gun, 20mm to 30mm remote controlled weapon stations or close-in weapon systems, heavy machine guns, and counter-measure systems.
Malaysian navy proposes to equip Kedah-class corvettes with Naval Strike Missile
01 AUGUST 2022 by Ridzwan Rahmat
The Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) has laid out an MYR214 million (USD48 million) plan to equip two of its Kedah (MEKO 100 RMN)-class corvettes with Naval Strike Missile (NSM) launchers.
Documents obtained by Janes indicate that the plan is being proposed as a three-part procurement project under the RMN's ‘Rolling Plan 4' of the 12th Malaysia Plan, which runs from 2021 to 2025. Rolling Plan 4 covers proposals that will be funded in the country's national budget for 2024.
The RMN operates six Kedah-class corvettes that were commissioned between June 2006 and December 2010. The corvettes were built under a technology transfer agreement arranged between Penang Shipbuilding Corporation (present-day Boustead Naval Shipyard) and a German consortium led by Blohm+Voss.
Each vessel is armed with a 76 mm naval gun in the primary position, a 30 mm cannon in the aft section, and two 12.7 mm machine guns.
A lot more shoes to drop from this centipede vis a vis the whole gamut of agreements and claims on procurement (but minus clarity on funding).
A long time ago, Msia was into this drama too in wanting to buy X or Y equipment. Many did not materialize and when they do, the numbers are less or FFBNW.
Source reported the first steel cutting ceremony of the Indonesian Navy Arrowhead 140 at PT PAL have been rescheduled to October 2022.
"The contract for construction of 2 Arrowhead 140 for Indonesian Navy has entered effective status since May 2021. Ministry of Defense has paid initial payment to shipbuilder. Schedule for first steel cutting has shifted from August to October 2022."
This post has been edited by azriel: Aug 11 2022, 07:21 AM
Source reported the first steel cutting ceremony of the Indonesian Navy Arrowhead 140 at PT PAL have been rescheduled to October 2022.
"The contract for construction of 2 Arrowhead 140 for Indonesian Navy has entered effective status since May 2021. Ministry of Defense has paid initial payment to shipbuilder. Schedule for first steel cutting has shifted from August to October 2022."
Haha! You are missing the point.
What is impt is not a new hull - plenty of new and upcoming hulls in Asia.
What is impt are the equipment installed on her - sensors, weapon systems, datalinks, unmanned systems, etc.
Those buying Russian arms could be hit with sanctions under the U.S. law Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. The law was passed in 2017 and is meant to discourage governments or entities from acquiring weapons as well as military hardware and parts from American adversaries like Iran, North Korea and Russia.
In short Sg has set up a fourth military service i.e. the Digital Digital and Intelligence Service ( i think this was previously known as SAF's Cyber Command) in addition to the conventional 3 i.e. Army, Navy and Air Force.
This will allow SG to channel additional resources and monies to cyber warfare and defence. More importantly, this will allow SG to assign tens of thousands of digitally literate and competent mandatory NS conscripts from SG's highly acclaimed polytechnics and universities to just focus on cyber warfare and defence aka cyber troopers in addition to regular cyber troops.
I dont know how much more I cannot underline the significance of Singapore's move. They are literally evolving an entire army of hackers and cyber defenders without necessarily having the need to pay billions more for its defence budget (2022 defence budget - $USD 12.1 billion).
In this age, cyber warfare can win and lose wars without a shot being fired. Cyber troopers can disrupt/blind and destroy both military and civilian facilities, spread disinformation, spread chaos and kill soldiers and civilians.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Aug 15 2022, 05:16 PM
INDONESIA'S FIRST C-130J-30 SUPER HERCULES ROLLED OUT
By Dave Allport  14th August 2022
Lockheed Martin has completed production of the first Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU, Indonesian Air Force) C-130J-30 Super Hercules.
The US manufacturer released an image of the aircraft on August 6 after it had been fully painted in TNI-AU markings. It carries the last two digits (‘39’) of the serial number on the nose. Although the full serial has not yet been confirmed, it seems likely that it will be A-1339, following on from A-1338, the last of nine acquired from the Royal Australian Air Force. An image released on September 7, 2021, showing the cockpit section for the first TNI-AU aircraft on the production line in Marietta, Georgia, showed construction number 5951 and it is assumed that this is the same airframe.
The Indonesian Air Force’s first C-130J-30 Super Hercules being rolled out of the paint shop on August 6. Lockheed Martin
Indonesia had been considering purchasing the type for some years and although there were rumours of a deal having been agreed, nothing was officially announced until the image of the cockpit under construction was released. At that time, Lockheed Martin finally made the deal public, saying that a contract for five Super Hercules had been agreed as a direct commercial sale, although it remains unconfirmed whether all are the stretched C-130J-30 variant. This was finalised in 2019. First delivery is anticipated in early 2023.
‎Indonesia has signed a contract to procure 42 Rafale fighter jets made by Dassault Aviation on February 10, 2022. The moment occurred during the visit of the (then) Minister of the Armed Forces of France Florence Parly. The contract value was € 5.8 billion, while when referring to data from the Indonesian side, the acquisition of Rafale cost US$ 7 billion, including logistical support but not including weapons. Of the 42 Rafale fighter jets, six of them use the 2021 Funding Source Determination (PSP) allocation for the Ministry of Defense worth US$ 1.1 billion. Now the challenge is how to provide a Pure Companion Rupiah (RMP) for the program so that the contract can enter an effective status. ‎
‎Indonesia and France's defense cooperation is regulated in the Defense Cooperation Agreement (DCA) signed by Indonesian Minister of Defense Prabowo Subianto and Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly on June 28, 2021 in Paris. The acquisition of Rafale included part of the DCA, in addition to the purchase of Scorpene-class submarines. Efforts to realize the procurement of the Rafale are now a touchstone for Indonesia in maintaining diplomatic relations with France, especially after France was let down by Australia after the Kangaroo Country cancelled the contract for the acquisition of 12 diesel-electric submarines. Indonesia is now an important gamble for France as part of the country's efforts to strengthen its presence in the Indo-Pacific region as outlined in the France and Security in the Indo-Pacific document published in 2019.‎
‎Regarding efforts to realize the planned acquisition of 42 Rafale, the issue of availability of budget allocations is a critical matter that needs to be considered. As of June 2022, orders for 42 Rafales from Indonesia have not been recorded in Dassault ‎‎Aviation's order backlog‎‎. Indonesia still needs a Foreign Loan (PLN) of US$ 5.9 billion to bring home 36 Rafales and their logistical support, but they do not cover weapons. Of the total PLN allocation for the 2020-2024 period for the Ministry of Defense of US$ 20.7 billion set by the Ministry of National Development Planning/Bappenas, a pure loan of US$ 17.6 billion, the remaining US$ 3.1 billion must be provided by Indonesia because it is an RMP fund. ‎
‎The 2021 PSP, which consists of 35 activities, has absorbed US$ 7.7 billion from the overall allocation of US$ 20.7 billion, so that the remaining PLN allocation is US$ 13 billion. In the latest development, the Ministry of Defense has plans to divert 12 activities out of 35 activities with a value of US$ 1.3 billion. To meet the contractual obligations of purchasing 36 Rafales, it means that there are a number of procurement programs in the 2020-2024 Foreign Loan Plan List (DRPLN) that must be cancelled and the funds reallocated for the procurement of Rafale fighter jets. The question is, what activities will be cancelled and which batches belong to for the sake of the 36 Rafale? ‎
‎Another way for the purchase of 36 Rafale to run but not sacrifice other activities in DRPLN is the additional PLN allocation from the Ministry of National Development Planning/Bappenas and the Ministry of Finance. Whether there will be additional PLN allocations for the Ministry of Defense depends largely on the inter-ministerial lobbying, the state's financial condition and government spending priorities. The plan to purchase 36 Rafale depends on the Ministry of National Development Planning/Bappenas and the Ministry of Finance, will the 36 Rafale contract be included in the List of Foreign Loan Priority Plans (DRPPLN) which is followed by the issuance of PSP? Let's also not forget the external political aspect, where Indonesia's failure to fulfill its promise to acquire 36 Rafale will affect France's belief in Indonesia's reliability as a partner. ‎
‎On the other hand, the Ministry of Defense still has ambitions to purchase used fighters in a program known as the Interim MRCA. After failing to bring home Austria's Eurofighter Typhoon fighters, now the ministry once led by General M. Jusuf is about to buy mirage 2000-5 and or Mirage 2000-9 from countries in the Persian Gulf. The PLN value required for the two types of fighters made by Dassault Aviation is US$ 734.5 million, including logistical support. PLN of US$ 734.5 million does not include the construction of mirage fighter jet operational support facilities in Indonesia. ‎
‎In accordance with the prevailing customs in Indonesia, the construction of supporting facilities always uses Pure Rupiah from the State Budget. It is not yet known how many billions of Rupiah will be needed by the Air Force to build Mirage operational support facilities if the Ministry of Defense acquires used fighter jets from the Middle East. The reason behind the planned procurement of fighter jets that in 1986 competed with the F-16A/B to compete for the Indonesian market was the lack of number of Indonesian fighters so that it needed a ‎‎stop gap‎‎ in the short term. With the ‎‎stop gap‎‎, it is expected that the operational readiness of Indonesian fighter jets will be increased although the service life of the Mirage 2000-5 and Mirage 2000-9 is estimated to be only about 10 years to the next 15 years. ‎
‎Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense still has another program related to fighter aircraft, namely ‎‎upgrading‎‎ the 23 F-16C/D Block 25 to the Viper equivalent. The program has been included in the 2020-2024 DRPLN and is just waiting for the issuance of DRPPLN and PSP. Although pln's proposed allocation for the procurement of Mirage fighters and the F-16C/D ‎‎upgrade‎‎ program are different, but with the PLN ceiling set by the Ministry of National Development Planning/Bappenas, the Ministry of Defense should prioritize the priority scale. In the economic dictum, resources are always limited so it needs priority in the use of available resources.‎
--------------------
Long story short - Indo signed on agreements with no funding. They are now having difficulty and are scrambling now trying to get foreign loans or cancel procurements.
Notably missing from the register are programmes to equip the Indonesian Air Force with Rafale multirole fighter aircraft from Dassault Aviation, and the Indonesian Navy with FREMM guided-missile frigates from Fincantieri. Contracts for these major equipment were signed in 2021.
Ive said b4 that more shoes r gonna fall off this centipede.
Indonesian and US Army ASTROS & HIMARS MLRS live firing during Super Garuda Shield Exercise 2022. Indonesian & US Army also conducted Javelin missile live firing.
This post has been edited by azriel: Aug 16 2022, 05:57 PM
Indonesian and US Army ASTROS & HIMARS MLRS live firing during Super Garuda Shield Exercise 2022. Indonesian & US Army also conducted Javelin missile live firing.
As Russia's war on Ukraine drags on, U.S. security assistance is shifting to a longer-term campaign that will likely keep more American military troops in Europe into the future, including imminent plans to announce an additional roughly $3 billion in aid to train and equip Ukrainian forces to fight for years to come, U.S. officials said.
The total of the aid package — which is being provided under the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative and is the largest to date— could change a bit overnight, but not likely by much. Officials said that it will include money for the small, hand-launched Puma drones, the longer-endurance Scan Eagle surveillance drones, which are launched by catapult, and, for the first time, the British Vampire drone system, which can be launched off ships.
British Vampires
Puma
Scam Eagle
DroneDefender ™ anti drone
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said his country is providing more than 500 million euros (nearly $500 million) in aid, including powerful anti-aircraft systems. The aid will also include rocket launchers, ammunition, anti-drone equipment, a dozen armored recovery vehicles and and three additional IRIS-T long-range air defense systems, the German news agency dpa reported.
Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced $3.85 million for two Ukraine projects through the Peace and Stabilization Operations Program. It includes about $2.9 million in funding for ongoing development of Ukraine's national police force and other emergency services, and about $950,000 to help advise Ukraine's defense ministry.
To date, the U.S. has provided about $10.6 billion in military aid to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden administration, including 19 packages of weapons taken directly from Defense Department stocks since August 2021.
U.S. defense leaders are also eyeing plans that will expand training for Ukrainian troops outside their country, and for militaries on Europe's eastern and southern flanks that feel most threatened by Russia's aggression.
In a first, South Korean general commands joint drills with U.S. troops
SEOUL (Reuters) - For the first time a South Korean general is commanding annual joint drills with American forces, the U.S. military said on Wednesday, a step toward Seoul's long-delayed goal of gaining command of allied forces in the event of a war.
The allies began on Monday their largest joint military drills in years, known as Ulchi Freedom Shield, with a resumption of field training, aiming to strengthen readiness for potential weapons tests by North Korea.
The exercises include an 11-day "computer simulated, defensc-oriented training event" to improve allied readiness, U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) said in a statement.
In the exercise, U.S. Army Gen. Paul LaCamera, who commands USFK troops, the U.S.-South Korea Combined Forces Command (CFC), and the United Nations Command (UNC), switched positions with his deputy, South Korean Gen. Ahn Byung-seok, USFK said.
The move was based on future command plans outlined by U.S and South Korean defence secretaries last year, LaCamera said in the statement.
"This is significant because, for the first time ever, the CFC deputy commander will take the lead as the future CFC commander," he added.
Since the 1950-1953 Korean War, the American military has retained authority to control hundreds of thousands of South Korean forces alongside the roughly 28,500 U.S. troops stationed in the country if another war breaks out.
President Yoon Suk-yeol has said South Korea is not ready to take operational control of those joint forces, after a push by his predecessor, Moon Jae-in, faced delays over the COVID-19 pandemic and other issues.
Yoon has cited a need for greater surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, among other factors.
South Korean Defence Minister Lee Jong-sup participated in Wednesday's drills, which the ministry said aimed at better deterring and responding to North Korea's nuclear and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) threats.
North Korea has criticised the joint drills as a rehearsal for invasion, calling them a "hostile policy" that proves Washington and Seoul are truly not interested in diplomacy.
S. Korea to create new anti-terror unit
The government will create a new military unit dedicated to defenses against terrorist activities, the Prime Minister’s office said Friday.
The government said it expects an increase in terrorist activities down the road, largely due to increased instability and political tensions around the world. The government also expressed concerns that there is a higher chance that terrorists could make their way into the country as pandemic-related travel restrictions are being eased.
The anti-terror military unit, to be launched in November, would be formed by merging two battalions of the Chemical, Biological and Radiological Defense Command.
The unit will help the country increase its defenses against chemical, nuclear and biological incidents, according to the government. The unit will also help the government monitor illegal transportation of hazardous chemicals and other potentially dangerous materials that can be used in terrorist activities.
The unit was part of several plans -- aimed at strengthening the country’s capabilities to counter terrorism and other threats -- that were approved by authorities at a regular interagency anti-terrorism meeting presided over by Prime Minister Han Duck-soo on Friday.
Under the approval, the government plans to expand cooperation with foreign intelligence agencies and boost preparedness against potential terrorist activities in the country, including terrorist financing.
The government would also increase its defenses at airports and harbors against potential threats, while improving the country’s overall counterterrorism operations.
Han said relevant agencies should “maintain and develop a thorough anti-terrorism and rapid response system so that South Korea can stay safe from terrorism,†according to a statement released on Friday.
some of them during covid, they occasionally joint forces with ROK marines.
The narrative in Sg is there this may be a massive mixed buy of both A and B models - similar to Japan. Technically, RSAF has not replaced its 49-50 F5 S/Ts which the F35As could end up replacing. The 40 to 60+ F15SGs replaced some or all of the Super Skyhawks. The F35Bs will replace the 70+ F16Vs as planned.
RSAF fighter replacements
Super Skyhawks -> replaced by 4.5+ gen F15SGs -> to be upgraded (midlife) and then replaced by a 6th gen fighter post 2040 F16s C/D/D+ -> upgraded (midlife) to F16V standard -> replaced by F35B F5 S/T -> ? (likely F35As)
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 3 2022, 06:19 PM
The litmus test is the fact that more and more tier 3 air forces all around the world r buying f35 backed by thier own defence science and material organisation assesments and not press correspondents.
The narrative in Sg is there this may be a massive mixed buy of both A and B models - similar to Japan. Technically, RSAF has not replaced its 49-50 F5 S/Ts which the F35As could end up replacing. The 40 to 60+ F15SGs replaced some or all of the Super Skyhawks. The F35Bs will replace the 70+ F16Vs as planned.
RSAF fighter replacements
Super Skyhawks -> replaced by 4.5+ gen F15SGs -> to be upgraded (midlife) and then replaced by a 6th gen fighter post 2040 F16s C/D/D+ -> upgraded (midlife) to F16V standard -> replaced by F35B F5 S/T -> ? (likely F35As)
And Germany just ordered F35s + i cant rem more orders from other countries recently.
Being a true multi national project, news and development is transparent with multiple tests done by many countries in different weather or climate conditions. In fact, these news is testament to a quickly maturing 5th gen plane from hardware to software with the ability 2 operate anywhere in the world.
Other jet projects are not as transparent as the F35s. You will find out something is wrong with them in a hot war - did Russias much praised (by them) Suks and Migs achiebe air superiority over Ukraine? Hahaha. Who got cheated?
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 4 2022, 11:42 AM
Sg may have exercised purchase options on the leased 40 to 50 leo 2 tanks (for training) in Germany. Recent photos of Exercise Panzer Strike show these tanks upgraded to the Leo 2SG tank standard. Sg currently has about 206 Leo 2Sg tanks (as declared by the Govt of Germany in its UN arms transfer report). The addition of these new tanks will bring the total to about 250+ Leo 2sg tanks.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 4 2022, 12:52 PM
Sg tanks are serialised 81 followed by the tank no. The serial numbers matches the number of tanks transferred by Germany to Sg thus far. So they have about 206 Leo2Sg tanks currently. But the additional purchase of the 40 to 50 leased tanks in Germany will bring that number to 250+ Leo2Sg tanks.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 4 2022, 12:20 PM
Just a sensing of the size of RSAF's future F35 fleet:
QUOTE
The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) is considering to co-locate its current Lockheed Martin F-16C/D multirole combat aircraft detachment at Luke Air Force Base (AFB) in Phoenix, Arizona, with its future Lockheed F-35 stealth fighters at a long-term training centre, United States officials have revealed.
Arkansas senator Tom Cotton said in a 20 July statement that Fort Smith Airport in Indiana has been selected as one of five possible sites to host the RSAF’s F-16 and F-35 aircraft, noting that Secretary of the Air Force Barbara Barrett had earlier signed a 6 July memorandum to establish a permanent Foreign Military Sales (FMS) training centre at a single location for 24 to 36 F-35 aircraft and F-16 basing.
Besides Fort Smith Airport, other sites that have been shortlisted include Hulman Field, Buckley AFB in Colorado, Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland in Texas, and Selfridge Air National Guard Base in Michigan.
“Fort Smith is a strong candidate for Singapore’s F-16 squadron and future F-35 aircraft,†Senator Cotton said.
“The United States deeply values our relationship with Singapore, and I appreciate Secretary Barrett’s consideration of Arkansas as a location for our important defence partnership,†he added. “I look forward to working with the Air Force and the state of Arkansas to ensure that Fort Smith is a welcome location for this vital new national security mission.â€
No timelines were given for the selection process.
Singapore’s F-35 acquisition details – more aircraft hinted?
It is worth noting that Senator Cotton’s statement revealed a potential Singaporean F-35 fleet size of between 24 and 36 F-35 at the future training centre, when the island state has thus far only indicated an interest in up to 12 aircraft.
On 9 January 2020, the US State Department approved a potential US$2.75 billion FMS sale of Lockheed Martin F-35B short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) stealth fighters as well as associated spare parts, logistics, and training support to Singapore.
The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) noted that the Singaporean government had requested an initial batch of four F-35B STOVL aircraft with the option to acquire an additional eight, with the proposed sale also provisioning for up to 13 Pratt & Whitney F135 engines including one initial spare, undisclosed electronic warfare, communications, and navigation systems, the Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) maintenance and logistics planning suite, software development and integration, and training equipment.
The F-35B platform brings a brand new STOVL capability for the RSAF, which have never operated such types of aircraft since it was stood up in September 1968 as the Singapore Air Defence Command (SADC). Singapore would be the fourth Asia Pacific country – and the first in Southeast Asia – to operate the F-35 after Australia, Japan, and South Korea.
Current US-based RSAF training activities The RSAF presently maintains four training detachments in the continental United States, with Boeing AH-64D Apache attack helicopters from the Peace Vanguard detachment at Silverbell Army Heliport in Marana, Arizona, and Boeing F-15SG multirole combat aircraft at Peace Carvin V at Mountain Home Air Base in Idaho. The service previously maintained Boeing CH-47D heavy-lift helicopters at the Peace Prairie detachment at Grand Prairie Army Aviation Support Facility in Texas, before relocating the helicopters to the Australian Army Aviation Training Centre at Oakey, Queensland in mid-2018.
Singapore also signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the United States on 7 December 2019 to establish a new combat aircraft training detachment at Andersen AFB on the US island territory of Guam in the western Pacific Ocean.
The MOU lays out the framework for the RSAF¼s future detachment in Guam, covering the deployment of the service¼s F-15SG and F-16 fighter aircraft and other assets such as the Gulfstream 550 airborne early warning aircraft for training.
The US Department of Defense (DoD) said the detachment will be stood up around 2029 and will initially comprise a squadron of aircraft and support personnel, as well as associated infrastructure such as hangars, aprons, and ancillary facilities.
If RSAF stations 36 F35s As or Bs at Continental United States (CONUS), that would mean a presence of at least 72 to 80+ F35s based in SG itself. Of course, the CONUS based aircrafts are expected to fly back to SG at the start of hostilities.
Sg typically buys military equipment in batches as opposed to one large order.
Every weapon needs to be used in a certain way. Tanks are employed with proper tactics and do not operate in silo fashion.
By tbe way, most modern western tanks have thicker armour and youd need a proper atgm to kill them.
unpopular opinion: modern ATGM mostly outclassed modern tanks, be it western or asian etc
like you said, its all down to how its used. knowing the ins and outs of ATGM warfare is extremely important for tankers to avoid being under crosshairs
unpopular opinion: modern ATGM mostly outclassed modern tanks, be it western or asian etc
like you said, its all down to how its used. knowing the ins and outs of ATGM warfare is extremely important for tankers to avoid being under crosshairs
Actually, the "West" are increasing their tank holdings. Not reducing.
Yes. Tactics matter a lot. But you will draw a different conclusion of tanks versus atgms when you compare western tanks to eastern ones.
Rule of thumb: Avoid anything Russian pls.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 5 2022, 10:38 PM
even modern western tanks with shoddy tactics are shown to be blasted to bits (see Turkey Leopards, Saudi Arabia M1A2s) inb4 export model weaker excuse
No it is not. Russia has lost 2000 tanks since the war began a couple of months ago.
This attrition rate has not been suffered by any army within the same span of time since perhaps ww2.
I am saying that tactics matter. But the maker of the tank matters too.
The iraqis also had atgms e.g. kornets. The allies never suffered the losses Russia did.
And what obsolete Russian tanks? Russis T90s, 80s, 72s, etc. Modern tanks by Russian definition.
yes and the coalition force never set their tanks right into kornet's crosshairs based on the tactics they employed right? they are much smarter than that to do something as foolish to pit ATGM vs tanks directly
the rule has always been simple, ATGM > MBTs. only tactics in how they utilise MBT kept them alive against ATGMs. not the tanks "superior armor". tanks can at most shrug off 1st hit and keep crew alive but the tank is already crippled and useless
this aint WW2 era anymore, ATGMs outpaced tanks armor long ago. APS is the next level thing that is keeping MBTs even more relevant into today
yes and the coalition force never set their tanks right into kornet's crosshairs based on the tactics they employed right? they are much smarter than that to do something as foolish to pit ATGM vs tanks directly
the rule has always been simple, ATGM > MBTs. only tactics in how they utilise MBT kept them alive against ATGMs. not the tanks "superior armor". tanks can at most shrug off 1st hit and keep crew alive but the tank is already crippled and useless
this aint WW2 era anymore, ATGMs outpaced tanks armor long ago. APS is the next level thing that is keeping MBTs even more relevant into today
Coalition tanks were just as susceptible to atgms when their escorts e.g. infantry were depleted.
Rubbish! It is not as simple as x versus y. The type of atgm, location of atgm strike, angle of attack, types of armour e.g. latest ceramic, chobham, depleted uranium, etc. all matter. And what makes you think a first strike can cripple a tank all the time? Presumptous!
My point is that western tanks are better built. Add to to tactics and youve got a formidable thrusting force.
Coalition tanks were just as susceptible to atgms when their escorts e.g. infantry were depleted.
Rubbish! It is not as simple as x versus y. The type of atgm, location of atgm strike, angle of attack, types of armour e.g. latest ceramic, chobham, depleted uranium, etc. all matter. And what makes you think a first strike can cripple a tank all the time? Presumptous!
My point is that western tanks are better built. Add to to tactics and youve got a formidable thrusting force.
despite all these variables, the first hit itself mostly already damage the optics, sensors and whatnot on the tank's external and partially the internals. the crew and innards mostly intact but without external optics, sensors etc theyre as good as blindfolded. i was watching a simulation on tank shells onto even modern tanks, a simple basic AP round itself while have no chance of penetrating western tanks armor from front, the kinetic impact is strong enough to render crew concussed and damage to systems, crippling the tank.
imagine a situation like this. you and your tank crew are moving from post A to post B, suddenly a tank round/ATGM hits you. everything went dark, sensors kaput, optics cant see externally anymore and suddenly tank halts because the driver is incapacitated or tracks broken. what do you do? exit tank to be ambushed or stay inside and await the inevitable 2nd round that could potentially rip the internals? you get the gist
no doubt abt this, but my point is ATGM are outpacing the western tanks even more. ATGMs are designed to destroy tanks, obviously they have the advantage considering the tanks are much more limited by weight and sizing. no point building an indestructible tank to only be crippled by it being too heavy or immobile for use
despite all these variables, the first hit itself mostly already damage the optics, sensors and whatnot on the tank's external and partially the internals. the crew and innards mostly intact but without external optics, sensors etc theyre as good as blindfolded. i was watching a simulation on tank shells onto even modern tanks, a simple basic AP round itself while have no chance of penetrating western tanks armor from front, the kinetic impact is strong enough to render crew concussed and damage to systems, crippling the tank.
imagine a situation like this. you and your tank crew are moving from post A to post B, suddenly a tank round/ATGM hits you. everything went dark, sensors kaput, optics cant see externally anymore and suddenly tank halts because the driver is incapacitated or tracks broken. what do you do? exit tank to be ambushed or stay inside and await the inevitable 2nd round that could potentially rip the internals? you get the gist
no doubt abt this, but my point is ATGM are outpacing the western tanks even more. ATGMs are designed to destroy tanks, obviously they have the advantage considering the tanks are much more limited by weight and sizing. no point building an indestructible tank to only be crippled by it being too heavy or immobile for use
No point
And yet countries still continue to buy tanks regardless
despite all these variables, the first hit itself mostly already damage the optics, sensors and whatnot on the tank's external and partially the internals. the crew and innards mostly intact but without external optics, sensors etc theyre as good as blindfolded. i was watching a simulation on tank shells onto even modern tanks, a simple basic AP round itself while have no chance of penetrating western tanks armor from front, the kinetic impact is strong enough to render crew concussed and damage to systems, crippling the tank.
imagine a situation like this. you and your tank crew are moving from post A to post B, suddenly a tank round/ATGM hits you. everything went dark, sensors kaput, optics cant see externally anymore and suddenly tank halts because the driver is incapacitated or tracks broken. what do you do? exit tank to be ambushed or stay inside and await the inevitable 2nd round that could potentially rip the internals? you get the gist
no doubt abt this, but my point is ATGM are outpacing the western tanks even more. ATGMs are designed to destroy tanks, obviously they have the advantage considering the tanks are much more limited by weight and sizing. no point building an indestructible tank to only be crippled by it being too heavy or immobile for use
Your posts are getting more inane. What makes you so sure the first hit will damage the optics or sensors or even the battle manage system on board. In fact, tanks have been known to take hits and dish out just fine. This is not a computet game. Injury to tanks or combat kills or outright destruction are totally different things.
I would agree that atgms are dangerous to tanks. But i will not agree that atgms are outpaced by tanks period. Futhermore, tank armour is being improved upon to deal with the latest missiles and tanks now even come with active protection systems. Add that to tactics.
Countries are buying more tanks. The euros, Us, china, russia, etc. all have ongoing tank projects. The poles threw away their pt71s, gave their leo2s back to germany (as the germans want to reconstitute their tank force) and buying several hundred korean tanks
Your posts are getting more inane. What makes you so sure the first hit will damage the optics or sensors or even the battle manage system on board. In fact, tanks have been known to take hits and dish out just fine. This is not a computet game. Injury to tanks or combat kills or outright destruction are totally different things.
I would agree that atgms are dangerous to tanks. But i will not agree that atgms are outpaced by tanks period. Futhermore, tank armour is being improved upon to deal with the latest missiles and tanks now even come with active protection systems. Add that to tactics.
Countries are buying more tanks. The euros, Us, china, russia, etc. all have ongoing tank projects. The poles threw away their pt71s, gave their leo2s back to germany (as the germans want to reconstitute their tank force) and buying several hundred korean tanks
wait, youre telling me a heavy dense kinetic projectile travelling at supersonic speeds will not damage the external sensors and optics of the tanks when impacted?
youre severely underestimating how strong ATGMs are. like i said, they might not penetrate from 1st hit due to systems like APS, or how they negate the warheads but the impact alone is extremely strong and will damage the externals and internals of the tanks. already a huge compromise in the tank's capability if it gets hit. how sure are you the systems are running fine?
this is correct, this is why APS are extremely valuable + other protection systems to combine to maintain highest level of survivability.
youre still missing the point at the end, my point is tanks are now used differently compared to WW2 era due how dangerous ATGMs are. not the complete obsoletion of tanks! geez, countries wont stop using tanks because AT exists.
wait, youre telling me a heavy dense kinetic projectile travelling at supersonic speeds will not damage the external sensors and optics of the tanks when impacted?Â
youre severely underestimating how strong ATGMs are. like i said, they might not penetrate from 1st hit due to systems like APS, or how they negate the warheads but the impact alone is extremely strong and will damage the externals and internals of the tanks. already a huge compromise in the tank's capability if it gets hit. how sure are you the systems are running fine? this is correct, this is why APS are extremely valuable + other protection systems to combine to maintain highest level of survivability.
youre still missing the point at the end, my point is tanks are now used differently compared to WW2 era due how dangerous ATGMs are. not the complete obsoletion of tanks! geez, countries wont stop using tanks because AT exists.
That is presumptous. Tanks are built to take hits. Ive explained before that many variables are involved. An atgm attack against a tank will not necessarily destroy its optics, sensors etc.
My point on better armour and APS is to support the contention that atgms have not outpaced tanks as tank defences have improved as well.
Ive never said that atgms are not dangerous.
What has usage of tanks in ww2 got 2 do with this? Ive said that tanks need to be used with proper tactics from the onset. Tactics change depending on the adversity faced.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 6 2022, 12:38 PM
The IDF employed several hundred tanks in combat. According to official reports, about ten percent were hit by various threats. Less than half of the hits penetrated
QUOTE
A colonel commanding an armored brigade, which bore the brunt of battle, mentioned in an interview that during the war that hundreds of antitank missiles were fired on his unit and in total only 18 tanks were seriously damaged. Of those, missiles actually penetrated only five or six vehicles and according to statistics, only two tanks were totally destroyed, however, both by super-heavy IED charges.
One Challenger 2 was allegedly struck by seventy RPGs—and emerged with its crew unscratched. Another survived seventeen RPGs and a Milan missile, and despite the battle damage, was back in combat the next day.
Western tanks are not indestructible.But they sure as hell not easy to knock out.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 6 2022, 05:56 PM
tanks are easily found by drones which can fly at high altitude.
Only if the enemy doesn't have proper fighter jet or money to get 4th or 4.5 generation fighters up in the air armed with air to air missiles.
Armenia for example doesn't have working aircraft with radar and air to air missiles to detect and shoot down Azerbaijan drones using the hilly & mountainous terrain to hide from ground based radar. Hence, these Azerbaijan drones could take sweet time designate targets for guided & unguided artillery strikes or air strikes.
Russia over Ukraine, the Russians were too poor to carry out tactical SEAD operations to destroy most of Ukraine S300 long range SAM and medium range SAM. This means Russian aircraft have to fly low level whenever going into Ukraine. Russian fighters not able to fly high altitude won't be able to detect and destroy Ukraine drones from far. Ukraine drones often loiter low near Ukrainian held areas to keep safe
No, wait after GE and economic recover first then choose proper aircraft. Not waste money on useless junk FA50 nor Tejas that will only end up being shot down by 4.5 generation fighters
US Javelin top down attack missiles already being copied by EU made NLAW and soon Russia & China will come up with theirs after cache of fresh javelins & NLAW already fell into Russian forces hand. This means western MBT too are now vulnerable to top down attack missiles due to thinner armour on turret top.
MBT and IFV will come up with layer of top armour on automated turrets. No more crew in turret and need thicker top armour apart from active protection system that could destroy missiles coming from above. Time for new generation MBT.
wait, youre telling me a heavy dense kinetic projectile travelling at supersonic speeds will not damage the external sensors and optics of the tanks when impacted?
youre severely underestimating how strong ATGMs are. like i said, they might not penetrate from 1st hit due to systems like APS, or how they negate the warheads but the impact alone is extremely strong and will damage the externals and internals of the tanks. already a huge compromise in the tank's capability if it gets hit. how sure are you the systems are running fine? this is correct, this is why APS are extremely valuable + other protection systems to combine to maintain highest level of survivability.
youre still missing the point at the end, my point is tanks are now used differently compared to WW2 era due how dangerous ATGMs are. not the complete obsoletion of tanks! geez, countries wont stop using tanks because AT exists.
Mai189 is right that a tank being hit won't necessarily destroy the CITV, visual thermal optical sights of tanks. It depends where the missile pr projectiles hit and how big is the warhead.
Man portable ATGM usually have smaller warheads meant to penetrate tanks on thinnest armour delivering warhead to kill crew or detonate ammo stowage in order to spark cookoff.
Attack helicopter or vehicle mounted ATGM such as AGM-114 or Vikhr would have bigger warheads to create more damage to tanks penetratimg thicker armour.
Proper air to ground missiles that weighs over 500lb such as AGM-65, Kh-29, Kh-38, Kh-25 would deliver heavier blow that would destroy tanks for real that are carried by aircraft.
Mai189 is right that a tank being hit won't necessarily destroy the CITV, visual thermal optical sights of tanks. It depends where the missile pr projectiles hit and how big is the warhead.
Man portable ATGM usually have smaller warheads meant to penetrate tanks on thinnest armour delivering warhead to kill crew or detonate ammo stowage in order to spark cookoff.
Attack helicopter or vehicle mounted ATGM such as AGM-114 or Vikhr would have bigger warheads to create more damage to tanks penetratimg thicker armour.
Proper air to ground missiles that weighs over 500lb such as AGM-65, Kh-29, Kh-38, Kh-25 would deliver heavier blow that would destroy tanks for real that are carried by aircraft.
like i mention, i disagree. even with a small warhead the impact is still significant to introduce stress to the tank. especially the sensors and optics which arent as robust as the armor. they are built to take hits like what Mai189 said but they are still damaged in the process
think of it like in rock climbing equipment, there is a reason carabiners are changed often as during climbs you introduce microfractures and stress to the equipment. would you have more confidence using a brand new carabiner or one thats been through 20 climbs?
like i mention, i disagree. even with a small warhead the impact is still significant to introduce stress to the tank. especially the sensors and optics which arent as robust as the armor. they are built to take hits like what Mai189 said but they are still damaged in the process
think of it like in rock climbing equipment, there is a reason carabiners are changed often as during climbs you introduce microfractures and stress to the equipment. would you have more confidence using a brand new carabiner or one thats been through 20 climbs?
Refer IDF Merkava Mk4 and Saudi M-1A2 that suffered ATGM from Hezbollah & Houthi rebels. Numbers of their optics were intact and because they have separate ammo storage from crew compartment, the ATGM injured or killed some of the crew and the tanks were driven back or towed back for repairs. Tanks optics are shielded comes with bulletproof glass to sustain certain amount of hits, robust enough to sustain staggering hits.
like i mention, i disagree. even with a small warhead the impact is still significant to introduce stress to the tank. especially the sensors and optics which arent as robust as the armor. they are built to take hits like what Mai189 said but they are still damaged in the process
think of it like in rock climbing equipment, there is a reason carabiners are changed often as during climbs you introduce microfractures and stress to the equipment. would you have more confidence using a brand new carabiner or one thats been through 20 climbs?
The thing about tank is that it's cost effective. And countries which have conscription would buy lots of tanks.
For you maybe a life is worth any amount of dollars, but for a country there's a dollar value fixed to a conscription head. And they can afford to lose hundred or thousands of lives for such & such amount of money.
Regardless of ATGM can destroyed a tank or not. ATGM is useful to stop the enemies marches but won't do you any good if you want to regain territories.
like i mention, i disagree. even with a small warhead the impact is still significant to introduce stress to the tank. especially the sensors and optics which arent as robust as the armor. they are built to take hits like what Mai189 said but they are still damaged in the process
think of it like in rock climbing equipment, there is a reason carabiners are changed often as during climbs you introduce microfractures and stress to the equipment. would you have more confidence using a brand new carabiner or one thats been through 20 climbs?
Sure. You disagree. I said previously that tanks are in fact (to the contrary robust) i.e. built to take hits and dish it out esp. Western tanks. You keep bringing up non relevant items as a means of comparison.
The proof of the pudding is the increasing number of countries that are increasing their tanks stockpiles right now.
Here is an interesting observation about Russian tank losses in Ukraine:
Despite their effectiveness, modern anti-tank guided missiles were not the primary killers of Russian tanks. According to an adviser to Ukraine’s most senior military officer: “[A]nti-tank missiles slowed the Russians down [during the advance towards Kyiv], but what killed them was our artillery. That was what broke their units.†Indeed, countless videos posted by the Ukrainian military have confirmed this, including those showing the ill-fated offensive by Russia’s 6th Tank Regiment in Brovary in mid-March. In addition to artillery, many Russian tanks were destroyed or disabled by Soviet-era systems, such as TM-62 anti-tank mines. Javelins, next generation light anti-tank weapons, and Ukrainian-made Stugna-P anti-tank systems have been effective, but they are just one component of Ukraine’s anti-tank efforts. Indeed, they likely destroyed a relatively smaller share of Russia’s tanks during its offensive in the Donbas, where Russia conducted a more coherent combined-arms operation. It is also important to note that public sources may not provide a representative view of how Russian tanks were damaged. Russian tanks struck by Stugna-P or Javelins are much more likely to be filmed and uploaded to social media than tanks damaged by mines, which may not be recorded as frequently. Of course, artillery battalions are not cheap, so the available evidence regarding tank losses in Ukraine does not particularly support the argument that we are seeing a “swing in favor of smaller and cheaper defensive weapons.†Ukraine has also suffered heavy tank losses, losing 244 tanks as documented by Oryx, of which 128 were destroyed. It does not appear most of these losses were from anti-tank guided missiles either.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 12 2022, 02:40 PM
The thing about tank is that it's cost effective. And countries which have conscription would buy lots of tanks.
For you maybe a life is worth any amount of dollars, but for a country there's a dollar value fixed to a conscription head. And they can afford to lose hundred or thousands of lives for such & such amount of money.
Regardless of ATGM can destroyed a tank or not. ATGM is useful to stop the enemies marches but won't do you any good if you want to regain territories.
yes as compared to other forms of attack vehicles, for example ships or planes. but they also suffer from same issue, where a cheaper AA missile or SAM are capable of keeping them in check
ATGM cannot stop marches but they can instill doubt and fear into tank offensives. since when territories are held by tanks? this is the role of infantries since ever
QUOTE(Mai189 @ Sep 12 2022, 02:40 PM)
Sure. You disagree. I said previously that tanks are in fact (to the contrary robust) i.e. built to take hits and dish it out esp. Western tanks. You keep bringing up non relevant items as a means of comparison.
The proof of the pudding is the increasing number of countries that are increasing their tanks stockpiles right now.
Here is an interesting observation about Russian tank losses in Ukraine:
look, designed to take hits doesnt mean you DONT TAKE DAMAGE. i can drive a hilux 4WD up an off trail road. is it designed for it? yes. will the suspension and other parts be damaged? YES
irrelevant means of comparison? how about actually taking into account tank operators POV for once? tank operators knows they arent invincible behind tanks, thats why the tactics matters to them alot during engagements than pure out "better armor"
jesus fcuking christ, i told you a billion times already its not about tanks being obsolete FFS. nobody is gonna stop usage of tanks with advent of ATGM. ATGM are built as countermeasures against tanks thus they will always reign superior as in their job is to DEFEAT tanks.
yes as compared to other forms of attack vehicles, for example ships or planes. but they also suffer from same issue, where a cheaper AA missile or SAM are capable of keeping them in check
ATGM cannot stop marches but they can instill doubt and fear into tank offensives. since when territories are held by tanks? this is the role of infantries since ever look, designed to take hits doesnt mean you DONT TAKE DAMAGE. i can drive a hilux 4WD up an off trail road. is it designed for it? yes. will the suspension and other parts be damaged? YES
irrelevant means of comparison? how about actually taking into account tank operators POV for once? tank operators knows they arent invincible behind tanks, thats why the tactics matters to them alot during engagements than pure out "better armor"
jesus fcuking christ, i told you a billion times already its not about tanks being obsolete FFS. nobody is gonna stop usage of tanks with advent of ATGM. ATGM are built as countermeasures against tanks thus they will always reign superior as in their job is to DEFEAT tanks.
Stop being a dumbass!
I never argued that tanks are not obsolete. I contest and certainly disagree with the contention that ATGMS they have outpaced tanks. That depends on a variety of variables and recent combat show. I also never said that ATGMS are not dangerous.
That ATGMs are not that big a factor in the longevity of tanks is certainly one of the reasons why tanks are being bought in larger numbers now.
yes as compared to other forms of attack vehicles, for example ships or planes. but they also suffer from same issue, where a cheaper AA missile or SAM are capable of keeping them in check
ATGM cannot stop marches but they can instill doubt and fear into tank offensives. since when territories are held by tanks? this is the role of infantries since ever
What crap is this? No cheaper AA missile or SAM is going to keep a more capable aircraft or ship in check. It will more than likely invite an outright attack to kill said threat e.g. SEAD. I have no idea what ship will be detterred by an AA or SAM missile.
Since when do ATGMs stop a tank offensive? You mean fear is a pre-requisite to not engaging in combat. Tactics will just be adapted.
yes as compared to other forms of attack vehicles, for example ships or planes. but they also suffer from same issue, where a cheaper AA missile or SAM are capable of keeping them in check
ATGM cannot stop marches but they can instill doubt and fear into tank offensives. since when territories are held by tanks? this is the role of infantries since ever
Without tanks,plane and ship how exactly are you going to deliver those ammo & missiles?
Anyway it seem you are a fans of territorial defense formation aka light infantry with some ATGM and so on. Do note that even TNI & PLA had move away from that. When a country developed, their labor cost increases and it's not efficient to keep a large standing but poorly equipment army. Money is better spent on machinery and thus why rich developed countries has fewer standing officers but plenty of equipment.
I never argued that tanks are not obsolete. I contest and certainly disagree with the contention that ATGMS they have outpaced tanks. That depends on a variety of variables and recent combat show. I also never said that ATGMS are not dangerous.
That ATGMs are not that big a factor in the longevity of tanks is certainly one of the reasons why tanks are being bought in larger numbers now.
again youre now insinuating something else
ask you one last time, what do you think im arguing about in first place?
QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 12 2022, 09:58 PM)
Without tanks,plane and ship how exactly are you going to deliver those ammo & missiles?
Anyway it seem you are a fans of territorial defense formation aka light infantry with some ATGM and so on. Do note that even TNI & PLA had move away from that. When a country developed, their labor cost increases and it's not efficient to keep a large standing but poorly equipment army. Money is better spent on machinery and thus why rich developed countries has fewer standing officers but plenty of equipment.
and what are you even pointing out to? since when i said dont use tanks/planes/ships to move supplies?
Whoever depending on Sukhoi Growlerski, might want to think again
US will have figured out the exact countermeasures soon
QUOTE(marfccy @ Sep 6 2022, 12:33 AM)
no doubt abt this, but my point is ATGM are outpacing the western tanks even more.
Mai189 is trying to argue that Western tanks > Russian tanks
you are trying to argue that ATGM > Western and Russian tanks
so my question to you is, if you believe ATGM > all, then what's the conclusion? No point buying ANY tanks at all? or just buy bare minimum T-55 standard?
Mai189 is trying to argue that Western tanks > Russian tanks
you are trying to argue that ATGM > Western and Russian tanks
so my question to you is, if you believe ATGM > all, then what's the conclusion? No point buying ANY tanks at all? or just buy bare minimum T-55 standard?
then just bloody go back to my very beginning of the post. nothing to do about stop buying tanks, just stating fact that ATGMs outclass tank armors and tank warfare strategy has evolved further to combat that
QUOTE
unpopular opinion: modern ATGM mostly outclassed modern tanks, be it western or asian etc
like you said, its all down to how its used. knowing the ins and outs of ATGM warfare is extremely important for tankers to avoid being under crosshairs
then just bloody go back to my very beginning of the post. nothing to do about stop buying tanks, just stating fact that ATGMs outclass tank armors and tank warfare strategy has evolved further to combat that
I mean, frankly, I'm sitting here wondering what you 2 are arguing about since from my point of view it hardly seems to differ. Hence why I wondered if you could state, precisely, what is your objection to what he said.
ATGMs can destroy tanks. That's like... an observation that isn't new since the invention of the PIAT.
I mean, frankly, I'm sitting here wondering what you 2 are arguing about since from my point of view it hardly seems to differ. Hence why I wondered if you could state, precisely, what is your objection to what he said.
ATGMs can destroy tanks. That's like... an observation that isn't new since the invention of the PIAT.
im disagreeing with Mai's part here where he claimed modern western tanks are the only ones needing proper atgms to destroy. my opinion is every tank are vulnerable
QUOTE
By tbe way, most modern western tanks have thicker armour and youd need a proper atgm to kill them.
im disagreeing with Mai's part here where he claimed modern western tanks are the only ones needing proper atgms to destroy. my opinion is every tank are vulnerable
And now you are resorting to plain lies.
I never said that. My posts will attest to this.
I said that: 1) I disagree that atgms have outpaced tanks 2) western tanks seem to fare better from recent combat experience 3) atgms are dangerous to tanks 4) their efficacy is contingent on many variables - in fact recent combat seems to show that atgms are not the primary killers of tanks and 5) tanks need to be used with proper tactics.
I said that: 1) I disagree that atgms have outpaced tanks 2) western tanks seem to fare better from recent combat experience 3) atgms are dangerous to tanks 4) their efficacy is contingent on many variables - in fact recent combat seems to show that atgms are not the primary killers of tanks and 5) tanks need to be used with proper tactics.
i just literally posted what you posted back in page 13... and youre saying youre not..
i just literally posted what you posted back in page 13... and youre saying youre not..
Not what?
You are cherry picking and do not read the context. And you pepper your posts with irrelevant examples.
The problem is You and comprehension and i dunno, your brain and emo.
Let me make it simpler - Youd need an atgm or atgms ,(there are also other munitions that can kill tanks e.g. mines) to kill a tank esp. Western tanks. But has atgms (outpaced or whatever language you used then) tanks. Ans: No.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 13 2022, 05:30 PM
You are cherry picking and do not read the context. And you pepper your posts with irrelevant examples.
The problem is You and comprehension and i dunno, your brain and emo.
Let me make it simpler - Youd need an atgm or atgms ,(there are also other munitions that can kill tanks e.g. mines) to kill a tank esp. Western tanks. But has atgms (outpaced or whatever language you used then) tanks. Ans: No.
i give up trying to push my simple point across, no point debating with a stubborn wall when your brain cannot comprehend
Rafale: part of the order signed in Indonesia came into effect
Six Rafale out of the 42 ordered were put into effect. Indonesia has officially become the 7th customer of the Rafale Dassault Aviation.
Michael Cabirol 20 Sep 2022, 6:00
(Credits: Dassault Aviation)
Part of the order for 42 Rafale, signed last February by Indonesia, has been put into effect, according to concordant sources. That is six Rafale out of the 42. Which means that the first installment was paid by Indonesia to Dassault Aviation. It was recently, we specify in La Tribune. Why only 6 out of 42? The Rafale contract in Indonesia is divided into two tranches, a first of six aircraft more or less financed (about 1.3 billion dollars), followed by another of 36 aircraft without any real budget. However, Rafale prices are indexed to an overall order of 42 aircraft.
Beautiful! RSAF sent 16 F15SGs and F16D+ (should be F16V standard now) to Pitch Black + 1 AEW aircraft and + 1 MRTT.
Which air force in South East Asia could afford such a qualitative and quantitative deployment?
Another view of the deployed F16Vs and F15SGs with clearer serial numbers.
From the serial numbers (see my previous posts on this), Singapore would have bought circa 96 to 100 F16s. They gave 7 or 8 early A/B models to Thailand. So, this would mean that they have a current inventory of around 90 F16Vs.
Mai's note: Sg does not publish its orbat but it is not exactly a secret as well - military equipment need to be serialised. Military enthusiasts and even the main stream media rely on older data or presumed ones. It may not be correct.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 21 2022, 12:49 PM
And this was from a Singapore navy event so it is legit.
This is likely the line drawing cum image of Singapore's incoming MRCV heavy frigates or destroyers:
It is difficult to see in detail the possible sensors or weapons (apart from the main gun) but it is clearly at least twice the size of the Formidable class FFGs with room for future expansion. I am not surprised that it is about the Type 26 frigates in size (frigates in name and weapons load but with a destroyer size hull) as the MRCV is also a USV/UAV/UUV carrier. The USV for instance is about 16m to 18m in length and the MRCV will carry at least 2 of such USVs.
The first ship will be ready in 2025 (that is 2+ years away) and all 6 ships will replace the Victory Class corvettes in 2030.
Length: approximately 155 meters at waterline Displacement: maximum 9,000 tonnes Accommodation: 110 crew, 70 passengers Operating endurance: 24 months Operating area: worldwide Ice class: 1C / E1 for sea areas with ice formation Service life: 30 years
Drone Hermes 900 UAV Type Medium Altitude, Long Endurance (MALE) UAV Manufacturer Elbit Systems Owners Israel Endurance 36 hours depending on payload Loaded Weight 970kg Payload Capacity 300kg Range 1,000km+ Sensor Options IR and EO cameras; GMTI; SAR; ELINT; EW and laser designator Weaponry Internal bay and wing hardpoint options, including four Rafael Spike anti-tank guided missiles
Singapore set up the Maritime Security and Response Flotilla (MSRF) (equivalent of Malaysia's MMEA) with two tug boats and 4 repurposed vessels (ex Fearless class patrol vessels) in 2021.
They are called Maritime Security Response Vessels (MSRV) as they constitute Singapore's de facto Coast Guard or play such a role with maritime security markings. However, they are still under the command/control of the navy. Singapore is building an additional 4 to 6 OPVs/light frigates to join the flotilla in 2026:
Singapore previously did not have such a flotilla however it is likely that the rise in piracy in the region and the TUAS Singapore-Malaysia dispute (many Sg people saw it as a stab in the back by a neighbour.) influenced the decision to set up the MSRF to:
1) Support the Singapore Marine Police called the Singapore Police Coast Guard (PCG); and
2) allow the RSN (which has arguably transformed into a highly capable green water navy) to focus more on her core duties e.g. SLOC patrols but still support MSRF and PCG when required.
The incorporation of coast guard functionalities into the RSN follows the style of many other countries in the world e.g. Australia which do not have a bona fide coast guard. It avoids duplication of work and internal contest for funding. In times of war, these pseudo coast guard ships (actually navy ships) can be equipped with anti-ship missiles, etc. In times of peace, these same ships can be armed better (since they are navy after all) with 76mm cannons, MICA VL missiles, spikes, etc. Pretty smart.
Note: The MSRF ships are not just heavier armed compared to conventional coast guard ships but armored (see armour platings on the Sentinel Class) and strengthened so it can take ramming and ram other ships.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 26 2022, 01:31 PM
Interestingly, the Singapore Marine Police or Police Coast Guard has been beefing up as well by the addition of 42 5th generation vessels to replace older boats.
Half of which are the new 23-24 meter PT Class vessels and the other half consisting of the PC Class patrol boats and PJ class interceptors:
These new vessels and boats support the 10 35-40m Coastal Patrol Vessels (the one with 25/30mm bushmaster chaingun/cannon) (seen in video below), 2 20m PT class (partially seen in the video below berthed) vessels and 11 19-20m Patrol Interdiction boats (the one with an auto machine gun on its roof) (seen in video below):
They are also a few more classes of vessels and boats including patrol boats, high speed interceptors, riverine patrol crafts, USVs, UAVs, etc. - lazy to search.
Added USVs or unmanned surface vessels below (note: they can carry just sensors or weapons and sensors):
Note: The men who operate these vessels are policemen. They are technically marine police but have the added responsibility of patrolling Sg's territorial seas off the island of Pedra Branca (this is an off-shore role so i think that is why the marine police was renamed Singapore Police Coast Guard) and I suppose patrol of SLOC areas closer to home as well - hence the heavier equipment and weaponry compared to other marine police outfits around the world.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 26 2022, 03:05 PM
Ministry of Defense: KF-21 will be part of Indonesia's air defense system
September 28, 2022 / by Author Ministry of Defense RI
AIRSPACE REVIEW (airspace-review.com) – Deputy Minister of Defense of the Republic of Indonesia M. Herindra said the KF-21 Boramae fighter jet has strategic value and will be part of Indonesia's air defense system.
This was said by M. Herindra to the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Korea His Excellency Lee Jong-Sup while attending the Ceremony of Celebration of KF-X/IF-X (KF-21) at Sacheon Air Base, South Gyeongsang, South Korea on Wednesday, September 28 .
It is said, the successful test flight of the KF-21 prototype is a tangible form of the successful development of this fighter aircraft, and is a long-awaited progress.
Also present at the meeting the Minister of DAPA (Defense Acquisition Program Administration) Mr. Eom Dong Hwan, "Indonesia may be optimistic that one day the KF-21 Boramae will become part of the Indonesian air defense system," said the Deputy Minister of Defense as quoted from the press release of the Indonesian Ministry of Defense (Kemhan).
The Deputy Minister of Defense added that the KF-X/IF-X program is a joint development program carried out by the two countries, namely the ROK and Indonesia.
It was explained that the journey of this cooperation program was quite long, starting with the signing of the Letter of Intent (LOI) by the two countries in 2009.
Then, in the process of this cooperation, it also underwent renegotiation until it finally succeeded in reaching a more solid agreement in November 2021 by deliberation when the two parties had reformulated a joint agreement, the Ministry of Defense wrote.
"In 2022, this program is already at the Engineering Manufacture Development (EMD) stage. This is a stage where several prototype aircraft have been produced that are ready for flight testing," said the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Republic of Indonesia.
The Indonesian Deputy Minister of Defense M. Herindra considered that the KF-X/IF-X Development Program is one of the national programs that has strategic value for the Indonesian nation, because it aims to meet the needs of the Indonesian Air Force fighter aircraft for the period 2025-2040.
Therefore, regarding the process of technology transfer that has been mutually agreed upon, the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Republic of Indonesia hopes that it will run in harmony with the operational requirements of a main weapon system tool (alutsista), to support Indonesia's ideals in developing and utilizing the National Defense Industry.
In addition, this program is also beneficial for increasing the capacity of the human resources of both countries.
Indonesia has sent 37 engineering personnel and two test pilot personnel from the Indonesian Air Force who are internationally certified to participate in activities in South Korea as an effort to transfer technology.
Indonesia is targeting to send 100 engineer personnel, who will rotate to participate in the program in South Korea.
This program has been started since September 2021 and is expected to be completed in mid-2026.
Has Indonesia paid the arrears/monies owed to the program? And has Indonesia actually placed this program as an item to be approved by the Ministry of Finance for foreign loans 2 be obtained (let alone getting the loans in the first place).
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 29 2022, 06:16 PM
Singapore set up the Maritime Security and Response Flotilla (MSRF) (equivalent of Malaysia's MMEA) with two tug boats and 4 repurposed vessels (ex Fearless class patrol vessels) in 2021.
They are called Maritime Security Response Vessels (MSRV) as they constitute Singapore's de facto Coast Guard or play such a role with maritime security markings. However, they are still under the command/control of the navy. Singapore is building an additional 4 to 6 OPVs/light frigates to join the flotilla in 2026:
Singapore previously did not have such a flotilla however it is likely that the rise in piracy in the region and the TUAS Singapore-Malaysia dispute (many Sg people saw it as a stab in the back by a neighbour.) influenced the decision to set up the MSRF to:
1) Support the Singapore Marine Police called the Singapore Police Coast Guard (PCG); and
2) allow the RSN (which has arguably transformed into a highly capable green water navy) to focus more on her core duties e.g. SLOC patrols but still support MSRF and PCG when required.
The incorporation of coast guard functionalities into the RSN follows the style of many other countries in the world e.g. Australia which do not have a bona fide coast guard. It avoids duplication of work and internal contest for funding. In times of war, these pseudo coast guard ships (actually navy ships) can be equipped with anti-ship missiles, etc. In times of peace, these same ships can be armed better (since they are navy after all) with 76mm cannons, MICA VL missiles, spikes, etc. Pretty smart.
Note: The MSRF ships are not just heavier armed compared to conventional coast guard ships but armored (see armour platings on the Sentinel Class) and strengthened so it can take ramming and ram other ships.
Visit to MSRF (Sentinel class featured and Maritime Security USV (now armed))
Maritime Security Unmanned Surface Vessel (USV) Specifications (variant/s of this USV (optionally armed with anti ship missiles) will be carried by RSNs incoming MRCV heavy frigate/destroyer class).
Length 16.9 metres Beam 5.2 metres Displacement 30 tonnes Speed In excess of 25 knots Endurance In excess of 36 hours Operators (when operating remotely) 2
Equipment Strobe Light & Siren Search Light Long Range Acoustics Device (LRAD) 12.7mm Stabilised Weapon System with Laser Dazzler Navigation Radar Global Positioning System
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 29 2022, 07:24 PM
Singapore deployed one of its QRA squadrons yesterday.
Singapore Airlines passenger arrested after allegedly making bomb threat; fighter jets scrambled
The bomb threat was subsequently verified to be false, MINDEF said.
SINGAPORE: Police arrested a 37-year-old man on a Singapore Airlines flight after he allegedly assaulted cabin crew and claimed he had a bomb in his carry-on bag, the police said on Wednesday (Sep 28).
In response to queries from CNA, police said it was alerted at 2.40am to an alleged bomb threat on board flight SQ33 from San Francisco to Singapore.
The man was restrained by the crew, and police subsequently arrested him for making false threats of terrorist acts and for suspected consumption of controlled drugs.
Singapore Airlines said the "unruly" passenger allegedly hit a cabin crew member.
The plane landed safely at Changi Airport at about 5.50am, under the escort of Republic of Singapore Air Force F-16C/D fighter jets, police said.
The aircraft was then taxied to a remote bay for security checks and the passenger was handed over to airport police, Singapore Airlines said. After the security checks were completed, the aircraft was towed to Terminal 3.
Data from air traffic tracking website Flightradar24 shows the plane circling before its descent towards Singapore. No delay in arrival was indicated, with a flight time of 16 hours and 25 minutes recorded.
Personnel from the Airport Police Division and the army’s Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Explosives Defence Group were on site to investigate the passenger's claims, the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) said in a Facebook post on Wednesday.
The bomb threat was subsequently verified to be false, MINDEF said.
All passengers and crew disembarked normally at 9.20am, the airline said.
"Singapore Airlines apologises to all affected customers for the inconvenience caused by this incident. We are assisting our customers with the rebooking for any onward connections that they may have missed," the airline said.
"We are assisting the authorities with their investigations and regret that we are unable to provide further details." - CNA
RSAF has repeatedly trained for such scenarios.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Sep 29 2022, 07:58 PM
Singapore's F35 integration plans quickens - building F16V and F35 simulators at CONUS (Continental USA) Ebbing Air National Guard Base
QUOTE
Ebbing at Fort Smith Regional Airport was selected last year as the Air Force's preferred location for a pilot training center for Singapore and other countries participating in the Foreign Military Sales program. The proposal would accommodate up to 24 foreign Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II aircraft and move 12 General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcons from the Singapore Air Force, currently at Luke Air Force Base in Glendale, Ariz.
QUOTE
The draft statement details the major renovations required for the Foreign Military Sales program at Ebbing, which includes installing arresting barriers at both ends of one of the runways, constructing a four- to eight-bay F-35 flight simulator training facility, building an up to 50,000-square-foot F-35 simulator training facility, altering or adding to the north side of a small F-16 simulator and an additional F-35 simulator training facility to accommodate the Singapore Air Force and removal and replacement of nine covered spaces with three F-35 three-bay sunshades.
Mai's note: This makes sense as RSAF's F16Vs will not be retired over night but in stages from 2030 onwards as more and more RSAF F35s As/Bs become operational. So eventually, the airbase will house 36 RSAF f35s (the 12 F16V slots will convert to F35 slots). If SG has as many as 36 F35s in CONUS there will typically be about 72-80 F35s in SG itself. Of course, the overseas F35s can be recalled in times of heightened threat.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 1 2022, 06:55 PM
Singapore and Australia concludes Exercise Singaroo 2022 (side-note thousands of SAF troops are in Australia right now for several unilateral/bilateral exercises and reaffirm the defence partnership between the 2 nations (backbone of South East Asia stability as status quo powers.)
The Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) and the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) participated in the bilateral maritime exercise, Exercise Singaroo, from 26 to 29 September 2022 in the Northern Australia Exercise Area off Darwin. The RSN deployed a Formidable-class frigate RSS Steadfast with an embarked Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk naval helicopter and a Victory-class missile corvette RSS Valour, while the RAN participated with a Hobart-class destroyer HMAS Hobart embarked with a MH-60R helicopter. Personnel and assets from the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF)'s Darwin Detachment 2022 also participated in the exercise with F-15SG and F-16D+ fighter aircraft, a Gulfstream G550 Airborne Early Warning aircraft and an A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport.
During the exercise, the RSN and RAN conducted a series of naval warfare trainings, including air defence exercises, manoeuvring drills and communication drills. This year's exercise also provided significant opportunities for integrated sea-air training which strengthened the interoperability between the RSN and RSAF.
Highlighting the importance of Exercise Singaroo in enhancing cooperation between both navies, Commander 8th Flotilla Colonel Ng Yen Meng said, "Exercise Singaroo is the mainstay exercise for the RSN and RAN. The exercise provides both navies with the opportunity to deepen professional sharing, learn from one another and strengthen our friendships."
Inaugurated in 1995, this year marks the 21st edition of Exercise Singaroo. Exercise Singaroo is one of many bilateral military interactions between the Singapore Armed Forces and the Australian Defence Force. The exercise underscores the close and long-standing defence relations between Singapore and Australia. Both armed forces also interact frequently through multilateral exercises, high-level visits, regular dialogues, professional exchanges and the cross-attendance of courses.
Msia will do well avoid this 4-4.5 gen jet (and avoid being a sucker) and save up for the F35 or later 5th gen jets (and buy it in 2030s)
The Koreas managed to get some inputs on rcs reduction for the air frame from the US which is not as good as the F35/22s and negated by external stores/weapon carriage. The avionics e.g radar (from israel) are inferior to current 4.5 gen jets like the Typhoons, Rafales, F15Sg/QA/EX/F16Vs, etc.
Msia will do well avoid this 4-4.5 gen jet (and avoid being a sucker) and save up for the F35 or later 5th gen jets (and buy it in 2030s)
The Koreas managed to get some inputs on rcs reduction for the air frame from the US which is not as good as the F35/22s and negated by external stores/weapon carriage. The avionics e.g radar (from israel) are inferior to current 4.5 gen jets like the Typhoons, Rafales, F15Sg/QA/EX etc.
In the last few decades, maf assets were selected by politicians contrary to service recommendations. The only way to have a good selection is to elect just and upright politicians.
In the last few decades, maf assets were selected by politicians contrary to service recommendations. The only way to have a good selection is to elect just and upright politicians.
Thats true. It may well require a generational change or many generations. Even so, Msia shld stick to tried and tested Western vendors with the institutional knowledge of building competent combat jets. And not national projects for which the patents are shared or belong to other countries and/or lack the transparency or moral capacity to acknowledge deficiencies.
Singapore and Australia concludes Exercise Singaroo 2022 (side-note thousands of SAF troops are in Australia right now for several unilateral/bilateral exercises and reaffirm the defence partnership between the 2 nations (backbone of South East Asia stability as status quo powers.)
The Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) and the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) participated in the bilateral maritime exercise, Exercise Singaroo, from 26 to 29 September 2022 in the Northern Australia Exercise Area off Darwin. The RSN deployed a Formidable-class frigate RSS Steadfast with an embarked Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk naval helicopter and a Victory-class missile corvette RSS Valour, while the RAN participated with a Hobart-class destroyer HMAS Hobart embarked with a MH-60R helicopter. Personnel and assets from the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF)'s Darwin Detachment 2022 also participated in the exercise with F-15SG and F-16D+ fighter aircraft, a Gulfstream G550 Airborne Early Warning aircraft and an A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport.
During the exercise, the RSN and RAN conducted a series of naval warfare trainings, including air defence exercises, manoeuvring drills and communication drills. This year's exercise also provided significant opportunities for integrated sea-air training which strengthened the interoperability between the RSN and RSAF.
Highlighting the importance of Exercise Singaroo in enhancing cooperation between both navies, Commander 8th Flotilla Colonel Ng Yen Meng said, "Exercise Singaroo is the mainstay exercise for the RSN and RAN. The exercise provides both navies with the opportunity to deepen professional sharing, learn from one another and strengthen our friendships."
Inaugurated in 1995, this year marks the 21st edition of Exercise Singaroo. Exercise Singaroo is one of many bilateral military interactions between the Singapore Armed Forces and the Australian Defence Force. The exercise underscores the close and long-standing defence relations between Singapore and Australia. Both armed forces also interact frequently through multilateral exercises, high-level visits, regular dialogues, professional exchanges and the cross-attendance of courses.
Video of 2020 edition (not this year):
Separately almost concurrently, RSN LPDs RSS Endurance and Persistence and RAN's HMAS Adelaide are involved in Exercise Trident 2022:
if malaysia can get F/A-50 and 2nd hand F/A-18 in next 10 years, the MRCA program postpone until beyond 2030 shouldn't be a big problem.
Yeah. The Cik SUs can be replaced with F35s as well. The incoming newer F35 engines gives up to 30% additional range, acceleration, thrust, etc. Not unless there is a significant boost to Msian defence budget, Msia should stick to F35s and a LIFT cum light fighter.
More importantly, Msia can have the interoperability she needs with more advanced military powers Australia, UK and Singapore in the FPDA.
Unfortunately, the Russian defence industry died with the sanctions .e.g. no critical chips etc.
And separately and almost concurrently, SG conducts an exercise with Malaysia:
Singapore and Malaysia Air Forces Conclude Bilateral Search and Rescue Exercise
The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) and the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) successfully conducted the fourth edition of the annual bilateral Search-and-Rescue Exercise (SAREX) MALSING. Held from 28 September to 1 October at Kuantan Air Base (KAB), Malaysia, this year's edition saw the inaugural participation of the RSAF's H225M helicopter in an overseas exercise. This is also the first SAREX MALSING that both services' personnel could resume in-person interactions and exchanges since the onset of COVID-19.1
The four-day exercise involved Search-and-Rescue (SAR) aircrew, ground crew and medical teams from both the RSAF and RMAF. The exercise participants planned and executed joint SAR operations off the north-western coast of Tioman, based on a simulated aerial mishap scenario. SAR teams from both air forces conducted aerial searches for survivors, and evacuated simulated casualties for immediate medical care. In addition, the RSAF and RMAF personnel discussed procedures for joint SAR operations. These activities enhanced cooperation between both air forces in areas of mutual interest, and fostered professional interaction between their personnel.
Chief of Staff – Air Staff of the RSAF, Brigadier-General (BG) Lau Boon Ping and Deputy Chief of the RMAF, Lieutenant General (LG) Dato' Indera Hj Muhamad Norazlan bin Aris co-officiated the opening ceremony of SAREX MALSING on 28 September. Speaking at the ceremony, BG Lau said, "In Search-and-Rescue operations, mere seconds could be the difference between life and death. Given Singapore and Malaysia's geographical proximity, there are opportunities for both air forces to coordinate their efforts to enhance the overall effectiveness of Search-and-Rescue operations."
This bilateral exercise underscores the warm and long-standing defence relations between Singapore and Malaysia. In addition to SAREX MALSING, the RSAF and RMAF also interact regularly across a wide range of activities, including bilateral visits and professional exchanges, as well as multilateral activities under the ambit of the Five Power Defence Arrangements.
SOS: Sg Mindef
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 3 2022, 01:23 PM
Malaysian Navy appeals for increased defense allocation for budget 2023
The Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) has issued rare appeals to the government for more funds to be made available under the country's 2023 national budget.
The appeals were detailed in two media releases issued by the Strategic Communications Divisions of the RMN's Western and Eastern armadas on 3 and 4 October, respectively.
“Three decades ago, the RMN proudly operated a total of 16 combatants with missile capabilities, but this number has reduced drastically today due to ageing equipment,†said the Western Armada in its 3 October media release. The armada also pointed out that the service last received a new surface combatant 25 years ago, in reference to its first Laksamana-class corvette.
A follow-on media release issued by the Eastern Armada on 4 October was more explicit in its appeal for more funds. “The Eastern Armada hopes that the government will give more consideration to the procurement and upgrade of military equipment in the national budget of 2023,†the statement reads.
“The additional funds are critical given that the RMN's assets are rapidly ageing and are now facing serious obsolescence issues. The Eastern Armada Command supports the navy's chief's call for an increase in the country's defence budget to 1.5% of the country's GDP in 2023,†the service added in reference to previous comments made by Admiral Reza Sany to the Malaysian media.
The Eastern Armada's statement went on to describe funding issues as the main challenge it continually faces when making deployment plans. “Given the changes in the security landscape, and the meddling by great powers in the South China Sea, the navy badly requires assets with combat capabilities,†the service added, without mentioning any specific countries.
Singapore and Brunei conclude six-day bilateral naval exercise
SINGAPORE, Oct 8 (The Straits Times/ANN): The Singapore and Brunei navies have concluded their flagship bilateral exercise, which involved the Republic of Singapore Air Force's (RSAF) F-16 fighter jets for the first time.
Two of the F-16s took part in air defence drills as part of Exercise Pelican, which was held from Monday to Saturday.
This was the 40th time the exercise has been held since it began in 1979.
Exercise Pelican is an annual exercise that enhances mutual cooperation, understanding and interoperability between the navies of Singapore and Brunei, the Ministry of Defence said on Saturday.
It underscores the close and long-standing defence ties between the countries, Mindef added.
During the exercise, the navies conducted a range of training activities from Thursday to Friday, including gunnery firing, air defence, manoeuvring and communication drills within international waters in the southern reaches of the South China Sea.
On Monday, Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) Fleet Commander Rear-Admiral (RADM) Sean Wat and Royal Brunei Navy (RBN) Fleet Commander Captain Khairil Haji Abdul Rahman co-officiated the opening ceremony of Exercise Pelican at Changi Naval Base, where they jointly unveiled a commemorative logo for the exercise's 40th edition.
"Both navies have derived good value from Exercise Pelican, and the exercise has remained a cornerstone of our bilateral relations," he added.
Commenting on the significance of Exercise Pelican, Captain Khairil said: "Ex Pelican to me is a living proof of RBN and RSN's relationship and remarkable friendship.
"Exercise Pelican has evolved to a complex warfare serial, in which this year for the series of Exercise Pelican will include the participation of F-16 fighters from the Republic of Singapore Air Force."
This year's exercise also involved the RSAF's Fokker-50 maritime patrol aircraft, RSN's Formidable-class frigate RSS Formidable and Victory-class missile corvette RSS Vigilance, as well as Brunei's Darussalam-class patrol vessel KDB Darussalam and Ijtihad-class fast patrol boat KDB Syafaat.
The last edition of the exercise, held in July 2020, was conducted in the Philippines Sea with no physical interaction between sailors from both navies due to the Covid-19 pandemic.
Israel Successfully Tests Advanced Anti-ship Missile System The 'Gabriel 5' missile system will 'help protect Israel's strategic assets,' the military said following the test conducted by the navy
Israel successfully tested a new ship-to-ship missile system called "Gabriel 5" which was fired from a Sa'ar 6-class corvette of the Israeli Navy, the INS Oz.
According to the Israel Defense Forces, the test was conducted in order to "see how the ship can deal with different threats by using new and advanced weaponry."
The "Gabriel 5" is an advanced ship-to-ship missile system capable of reaching various targets hundreds of kilometers away. The military added that the system can "help protect Israel's strategic assets" – an apparent reference to the Karish natural gas field which has become a target of Hezbollah. The IDF added that the successful test of the system will pave the way towards installing it on all Sa'ar 6 ships for operational use.
Although Israel is optimistic it will reach a U.S.-brokered deal with Lebanon regarding the maritime dispute, the security establishment is concerned that Lebanon-based Hezbollah will attempt to target the Karish rig.
Israel has beefed up its forces around the Karish gas field over the summer, following the downing of four Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean Sea.
One drone was shot down over Lebanon’s territorial waters in late June, and did not pose danger to Israel, according to the Israel Defense Forces. A few days later, on July 2, the IDF successfully intercepted three Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean.
The three drones were shot down by fighter jets and the Israeli Navy's Barak interception system. The military believes that the drones were not armed, and did not pose a risk to the country or to the gas field.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabriel 5=Sea Serpent=Blue Spear
They are the same land attack cum anti-ship missile.
QUOTE
In 2020, Israel's IAI and Singapore's ST Engineering started a 50/50 joint venture company called Proteus Advanced Systems to develop, produce and market a derivative of the Gabriel V called the Blue Spear missile system (Blue Spear). The missile has both sea and deep land attack capabilities with enhanced maneuverability for littoral environments. The warhead employs an active radar-homing seeker, accurate INS-based navigation capabilities, beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) capability and a robust system which is immune to GPS disruptions and maximal accuracy target acquisition. The system is equipped with a variety of deception means to achieve its mission and cope with the different battle-field challenges. ST Engineering’s role in the Blue Spear’s development includes the design, development and production of major subsystems like the booster motor and warhead whilst IAI focuses on other parts. In 2021, IAI and Thales jointly market a variant of Gabriel V or Blue Spear called Sea Serpent to the Royal Navy to replace its ageing Harpoon missile system. At DSEI 2021, IAI revealed that Sea Serpent is developed in parallel with the Blue Spear and based on the Gabriel V missile system and/or older variants. IAI added that Sea Serpent has a low profile mode or sea skimming range of greater than 290 km .[11] This range corresponds with the overall Gabriel V's range of 200 km to 400 km, depending on flight profile.[b] Hence, the Sea Serpent or Blue Spear missile can engage targets at distances of up to 400 km.
QUOTE
It is also rumored that both Israel and Singapore already use variants of the Gabriel V which replaces their older Harpoon missiles. Blue Spear or Sea Serpent or Gabriel V allows both countries to conduct deep land, littoral and open sea surgical strikes effectively.
Interestingly, ST and IAI or Proteus has opted to use the max range of 290km (no booster) thereabout in its marketing materials - likely to keep to global Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) guidelines.
Or that as OEM missile manufacturers, they will only sell Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent with a reduced range i.e. 290km (without booster) or max 300km limit (with booster (reduced fuel so that it does not breach the 300km ceiling)).
Israel Successfully Tests Advanced Anti-ship Missile System The 'Gabriel 5' missile system will 'help protect Israel's strategic assets,' the military said following the test conducted by the navy
Israel successfully tested a new ship-to-ship missile system called "Gabriel 5" which was fired from a Sa'ar 6-class corvette of the Israeli Navy, the INS Oz.
According to the Israel Defense Forces, the test was conducted in order to "see how the ship can deal with different threats by using new and advanced weaponry."
The "Gabriel 5" is an advanced ship-to-ship missile system capable of reaching various targets hundreds of kilometers away. The military added that the system can "help protect Israel's strategic assets" – an apparent reference to the Karish natural gas field which has become a target of Hezbollah. The IDF added that the successful test of the system will pave the way towards installing it on all Sa'ar 6 ships for operational use.
Although Israel is optimistic it will reach a U.S.-brokered deal with Lebanon regarding the maritime dispute, the security establishment is concerned that Lebanon-based Hezbollah will attempt to target the Karish rig.
Israel has beefed up its forces around the Karish gas field over the summer, following the downing of four Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean Sea.
One drone was shot down over Lebanon’s territorial waters in late June, and did not pose danger to Israel, according to the Israel Defense Forces. A few days later, on July 2, the IDF successfully intercepted three Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean.
The three drones were shot down by fighter jets and the Israeli Navy's Barak interception system. The military believes that the drones were not armed, and did not pose a risk to the country or to the gas field.
Interestingly, ST and IAI or Proteus has opted to use the max range of 290km (no booster) thereabout in its marketing materials - likely to keep to global Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) guidelines.
Or that as OEM missile manufacturers, they will only sell Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent with a reduced range i.e. 290km (without booster) or max 300km limit (with booster (reduced fuel so that it does not breach the 300km ceiling)).
However, Singapore and Israel as OEM manufacturers can deploy the same missile with its max range of 400km i.e. mixed high-low profile.
The Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent missile defeated Kongsberg NSM, MBDA Exocet, Boeing Harpoon, Saab RBS15 Mk4 missiles in Finland navy's competition to replace its old RBS 15 missiles.
QUOTE
According to the Finnish Navy procurement programme press statement, the main selection criteria included performance versus acquisition costs and schedule, life cycle costs, security of supply, and compatibility with existing infrastructure and defence system.
Manufacturers and current users: Israel (manufacturer), Singapore (manufacturer), Finland and Estonia
Israel and Singapore likely turned down Ukraine's request to buy the Blue Spear recently as it can virtually destroy the Black Sea Fleet and inland critical infrastructure (like Tomahawk cruise missiles):
Leonardo ATR MPA and TAI Anka October 9, 2022 Marhalim Abas Malaysian Defence 0
TAI Anka UAS displayed at DSA 2022. EL?SC SHAH ALAM: Leonardo ATR MPA and TAI Anka. Senior Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein today announced that the government has selected the Leonardo ATR72 MPA and the Turkish Aerospace Industries Anka UAS to meet the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) requirements for both capabilities. Malaysian Defence posts on the MPA and MALE UAS
The selection was hinted in Malaysian Defence post on the 2023 budget which Hishammuddin hinted in his social media posts. Malaysian Defence was told that the LOI for both the MPA and MALE UAS were already issued to both companies late last month.
Hishammuddin said the Defence Ministry was in the process of finalising the Letter of Award (Surat Serah Setuju Terima) pending final agreements among all the parties.
To boost the capabilities of the Army, he said that will conclude the procurement of the 136 Type A 4X4 (armoured) vehicles and various Type B (unarmoured) vehicles worth RM2.046 billion. Malaysian Defence was told the armoured vehicles are likely be the Mildef Rentaka 4X4 unveiled at DSA 2022.
With 136 armoured 4X4s already signed for, that leaves some 100 plus 6X6 to be contracted, to replace the Condors still in service with the Armoured Corps. I was told no funding has been allocated for the 6X6 requirements so it is likely this will be deferred to the next RMK.
Hishammuddin also said some RM2.4 billion has been allocated for the maintenance and upgrade of the RMAF F/A-18D Hornet fleet. At least one F/A-18D Hornet is undergoing a depot level maintenance and upgrade at the RMAF Butterworth airbase which is expected to be completed by year end. It is unclear what kind of upgrade was being conducted, however.
Hishammuddin also said some RM140 million has been allocated to provide “head to toe†equipment for the Army following complaints from soldiers on the quality of the gear issued. He did not elaborate but under the head-to-toe scheme, a single supplier will be chosen to provide all the equipment from head gear to boots. The current Armed Forces practise is to source such gear from different suppliers. I was told small units of the military had already done this, but the most prevalent user of the head-to-toe scheme is the police’s General Operations Force.
^ Reliable and affordable plane in use by the Turkish navy, Italian coast guard and Nigerian navy. I did not realise it is rather small. This is the non ASW version. There ought to be 2 to 4 usable hardpoints which can carry torps/missiles compared to 11 for the P8 Poseidon MPA.
Credit: Naval Recognition
But when it comes to MPAs, it is less the plane but more of the systems carried. Also, weapons need not be carried by the same platform but with other shooters - a direction Msia should head into. The pinoys are buying the same platform.
I suspect that Msia middle men sharks will eat into the systems to be carried and weigh down on the project and implementation even if it is only for 2 planes.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 10 2022, 12:01 PM
The MALE Anka was bought because Malaysia really needs an intelligence, surveillance and recon platform right now.
A lot of brouhaha over getting Bayraktar TB2 but pls note that these drones are very vulnerable to a state actor with good air defence and air force. Slow moving drones can only operate in a permissible environment. Otherwise, they will get shot down.
Even the Anka will struggle against a modern Shorad such as CAMM in a hot war which has 10K altitude ceiling compared to the Anka's 9k+ altitude ceiling.
The basic building block of a competent air force with good combat jets must be resolved first.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 10 2022, 12:59 PM
^ Reliable and affordable plane in use by the Turkish navy, Italian coast guard and Nigerian navy. I did not realise it is rather small. This is the non ASW version. There ought to be 2 to 4 usable hardpoints which can carry torps/missiles compared to 11 for the P8 Poseidon MPA.
Credit: Naval Recognition
But when it comes to MPAs, it is less the plane but more of the systems carried. Also, weapons need not be carried by the same platform but with other shooters - a direction Msia should head into. The pinoys are buying the same platform.
I suspect that Msia middle men sharks will eat into the systems to be carried and weigh down on the project and implementation even if it is only for 2 planes.
it seems that KM Tun Fatimah has been successful launch this morning
OPV Tun Fatimah Launched October 10, 2022 Marhalim Abas Malaysian Defence 0
OPV TuN Fatimah after her launch early on October 10, 2020. SHAH ALAM: OPV Tun Fatimah was launched this morning, some five years after its keel was laid. The launch was conducted about 6am at the THHE Fabricators yard, Pulau Indah, Pelabuhan Klang where the three OPVs contracted to the THHE Destini JV are being built.
THHE is now the sole builder of the OPVs after Destini decided to opt out from the joint venture. The contract for the three OPVs based on the Damen 1800 OPV design was awarded to the THHE JV in 2017.
All three OPVs were supposed to be delivered already to the MMEA but the shipbuilder had obtained an extension of time to defer the delivery of the first ship to August 2022.
MMEA first Damen 1800 OPV 8305 at her stand at THHE -Destini JV yard at Pulau Indah. Picture taken in November 2020. Destini FB
The launch of Tun Fatimah was low key like the launch of KM Bagan Datuk, the first of six patrol boats built by Destini Shipbuilding and Engineering Sdn Bhd. The timing of Tun Fatimah launch at 6am may have something to do with it, I guess.
Following the launch, Tun Fatimah has been tied up to the jetty next to the yard. She will now undergo harbour and sea trials which will culminate with its commissioning by May, next year, just in time for LIMA 23, just like Bagan Datuk.
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(pcboss00 @ Oct 10 2022, 01:31 PM)
im confused. some said atr42 mpa.
Yep, mula2 dengar 3 tapi when US grant us 3 MPS the number reduce to 2
tengok well ATR pun ialah preferred platfrom for Global-eye
QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 11 2022, 01:30 PM)
yang ni apa kaitan dengan Deftech? they are middleman?
Anka? Deftech is TAI agent and also appointed technical partner they have been promoting anka since 2015 basically most Turks defense tech have partnership with DRB
so no Sea-guardian for US, damn it what could have been oh well at least dapat la geng2 ni jalan ngan duduk kursus kat New Orleans kejap
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 13 2022, 04:25 PM)
memang betul2 salah mata
Please look at it clearly
It is a Saab 2000 with ERIEYE radar, not ATR-72. Saab 2000 has low wings, while ATR-72 has high wings. Yes Saab also build civilian aircrafts.
that is not least of my concern with TUDM operating ATR the chances of them using a same platform for different types of equipment is high. So in this case the ATR and Erieye have a larger chances to be inducted into service with TUDM
see the bigger picture? I'm sure the people in Gading does
btw tolak Gading/Leo aside, to all /k military tered poster
why do you think ATR MPA was chosen from all other contender that present themselves during LIMA2019?
What we know that TUDM specifically stated the speed that they wanted in the tender documents, that speed cannot be attained by the ATR-72. That speed requirement is something the CN-235 cannot achieve also. We also know that one of the interested contenders actually changed their initial proposal of using the ATR-72, to another faster aircraft due to the requirements listed out in the MPA Tender.
So - TUDM wanted an aircraft faster than the CN-235. TUDM ideally wanted a jet platform, but its budget does not stretch to a jet aircraft. - Many contenders wanted to use ATR-72, due to its size, price, and available support in our region. But ATR-72 operational speed is just comparable to the CN-235, and not what TUDM wanted as written in the tender documents. - Some contenders upon learning of the speed requirement, even changed their initial offer of ATR-72 to another faster aircraft. - In the end MENHAN announced that the winner is the ATR-72 - The ATR-72 MPA will perform missions with the same capability of the CN-235 MSA (similar speed, similar range), but with added cost and complexity of having to fly and maintain 2 totally different aircraft and mission systems.
The reason? Pick from below
- cronyism - corruption - kickbacks - add your own
Speed is not everything. ATR72 is also used by commercial which means economies of scale in maintenance. 10hour endurance may be more useful than the speed.
Malaysia biggest threat is not submarine. What TUDM needs more than speed is presence.
Speed is not everything. ATR72 is also used by commercial which means economies of scale in maintenance. 10hour endurance may be more useful than the speed.
Malaysia biggest threat is not submarine. What TUDM needs more than speed is presence.
Prese lah. US$60+m for each LMS batch 1 is nothing compared to harga batch 2. Must take into account exchange rate & inflasi. Best of all get invisible ship, even better than stealth. Malaysia boleh.
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 14 2022, 08:43 AM)
Why ATR was choosen?
What we know that TUDM specifically stated the speed that they wanted in the tender documents, that speed cannot be attained by the ATR-72. That speed requirement is something the CN-235 cannot achieve also. We also know that one of the interested contenders actually changed their initial proposal of using the ATR-72, to another faster aircraft due to the requirements listed out in the MPA Tender.
So - TUDM wanted an aircraft faster than the CN-235. TUDM ideally wanted a jet platform, but its budget does not stretch to a jet aircraft. - Many contenders wanted to use ATR-72, due to its size, price, and available support in our region. But ATR-72 operational speed is just comparable to the CN-235, and not what TUDM wanted as written in the tender documents. - Some contenders upon learning of the speed requirement, even changed their initial offer of ATR-72 to another faster aircraft. - In the end MENHAN announced that the winner is the ATR-72 - The ATR-72 MPA will perform missions with the same capability of the CN-235 MSA (similar speed, similar range), but with added cost and complexity of having to fly and maintain 2 totally different aircraft and mission systems.
The reason? Pick from below
- cronyism - corruption - kickbacks - add your own
nice try trying to riling it up! they are the cheapest among the contenders in the race nuff said.
It can be used from land (32km) or sea (32km) or air (50km) e.g. from UAVs/UCAVs or USVs.
E.g. of USV i.e. Singapore's navy 17m stealth USV:
Spike can be regarded as one of the most successful multipurpose anti-tank/anti-bunker/anti-personnel missile ever and in used by countries such as India, Germany, Poland, UK, etc.
Spike missiles are manufactured by Israel's Rafael and Singapore' Smart Systems Pte Ltd (joint venture between Israel's Rafael and Singapore Technologies)
In 2012, Smart was spotted selling Spike at a defence fair:
Ukraine has just bought another 2900 Matador "atgm" missiles in addition to an earlier batch of 5900 missiles. The Singaporean-German-Israeli shoulder fired missile is doing very well.
Ukraine has just bought another 2900 Matador "atgm" missiles in addition to an earlier batch of 5900 missiles. The Singaporean-German-Israeli shoulder fired missile is doing very well.
Except for the simple fact it can't detect submarine at all.
Sure you could integrated the ASW suite in it, but get ready to pay an arm & a leg to do so. Even then we would be the only one using it which mean we can't take advantage of other military experience, integration, training and so on.
Meanwhile Leonardo has a finished off the shelf products in the form of MPA,ASW helo, ASW suite for MALE off the shelf with preexisting users.
Not to mention Italy is the 3rd wheel in the franco- German duopolies of the EU decision making process. A block which had considerable political,economical, military power, one we have a trade surplus with and one whose relationship is really important to us.
Except for the facts the parts needed for the final assembly in Singapore comes by air & sea that can be blockages by the enemy.
Off course assembling missiles is the least of SG worries if the air & sea is blockage since SG energy & foods also comes from the sea.
This is a given. Most weapons and many commercial goods have parts originating from other parts of the world.
It may not be a case that they are assembling the missiles; likely producing some parts e.g. munition warhead for which they have an established competence or rocket motor as in the case of Blue Spear. There is also bound to be some form of tech sharing. This is an arrangement that started in the late 1990s.
Easier said than done to initiate a blockade from air and sea as not many countries have the resources and endurance to do so esp. for a key global commercial node.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 16 2022, 11:20 PM
Except for the simple fact it can't detect submarine at all.
Sure you could integrated the ASW suite in it, but get ready to pay an arm & a leg to do so. Even then we would be the only one using it which mean we can't take advantage of other military experience, integration, training and so on.
Meanwhile Leonardo has a finished off the shelf products in the form of MPA,ASW helo, ASW suite for MALE off the shelf with preexisting users.
Not to mention Italy is the 3rd wheel in the franco- German duopolies of the EU decision making process. A block which had considerable political,economical, military power, one we have a trade surplus with and one whose relationship is really important to us.
Does anyone know the effectiveness of using MPAs to detect submarines in the South China Sea?
I ask because the art of submarine detection via such means is no easy task as the propagation of underwater sound is affected by many variables esp. in shallow waters occupied by thousands of ships (being a major sea lane for commerce). It may be easier to just eyeball a submarine in some instances than try to determine one using sonar bouys etc.
I am not sure about MAD and its utility in this region too.
Except for the simple fact it can't detect submarine at all.
Sure you could integrated the ASW suite in it, but get ready to pay an arm & a leg to do so. Even then we would be the only one using it which mean we can't take advantage of other military experience, integration, training and so on.
Meanwhile Leonardo has a finished off the shelf products in the form of MPA,ASW helo, ASW suite for MALE off the shelf with preexisting users.
Not to mention Italy is the 3rd wheel in the franco- German duopolies of the EU decision making process. A block which had considerable political,economical, military power, one we have a trade surplus with and one whose relationship is really important to us.
We would be the only one using it?
Turkish navy beg to differ. They have six CN-235 ASW version operational for nearly 15 years now. They also operate in shallow littorals, with heavy shipping traffic and many islands. It has a full French THALES system centered around the TACTICOS mission system, same as RMAF B200T.
This is a given. Most weapons and many commercial goods have parts originating from other parts of the world.
It may not be a case that they are assembling the missiles; likely producing some parts e.g. munition warhead for which they have an established competence or rocket motor as in the case of Blue Spear. There is also bound to be some form of tech sharing. This is an arrangement that started in the late 1990s.
Easier said than done to initiate a blockade from air and sea as not many countries have the resources and endurance to do so esp. for a key global commercial node.
Personally the decision to local assembly is more towards industrial, technological & employments rather than due to national security reasons like ability to produce ammunition during a conflict.
In an event of a conflict, we just like during WW2 don't even have much abilities to even feed our population
Turkish navy beg to differ. They have six CN-235 ASW version operational for nearly 15 years now. They also operate in shallow littorals, with heavy shipping traffic and many islands. It has a full French THALES system centered around the TACTICOS mission system, same as RMAF B200T.
And yet they still go out there and bought the ATR72 anyway.
The reason they went for ATR-72
their whole ASW system is based around THALES AMASCOS-300 system. Both for CN-235 and ATR-72. All the components are from 2004/2005 era of hardwares. Even for the ATR-72, 95% of the same system from CN-235 is fitted to the ATR-72.
Why? Because they have bought all the ASW equipment at once in the mid-2000s. They moved to ATR-72 because the ATR-72 is a bit bigger for all the hardwares.
If we want to buy ASW hardwares now, there are more lighter systems that functions the same and can be replaced without hassle.
One example
The MAD system used is the CAE AN/ASQ-508(V). The MAD sensor only weighs around 50kg. CAE has developed a replacement of the AN/ASQ-508(V) called MAD-XR. MAD-XR has the same performance as AN/ASQ-508(V), but weighs less than 2kg.
Sonobuoys sizes has reduced considerably. No need to cut holes in the fuselage for sonobuoy launchers. Just have sonobuoy pods hung from weapon pylons.
As for pylons, ATR-72 only have 2, on the fuselage.
CN-235 possible max 8 pylons, 4 on wing, 4 on stub wings on side sponsons
.
This is the stub wings on actual aircraft. Also see the engine is equipped with IR exhaust suppressor, a piece of equipment that is not available for ATR-72. IR exhaust suppressor is used to reduce the possibility of the engine being hit by heat-seeking missiles.
Thank you for the sharing up there on MAD and sonar bouys. I am still not so convinced on its viability in South China Sea as things like salinity and the presence of scores of hulls of other ships in a small area may impact the utility of these devices
Ill read up more on it when I have the time.
Sorry if I am a trifle angsty lately guys. My apologies. Going for a lil ops and not too fond of it.
their whole ASW system is based around THALES AMASCOS-300 system. Both for CN-235 and ATR-72. All the components are from 2004/2005 era of hardwares. Even for the ATR-72, 95% of the same system from CN-235 is fitted to the ATR-72.
Why? Because they have bought all the ASW equipment at once in the mid-2000s. They moved to ATR-72 because the ATR-72 is a bit bigger for all the hardwares.
If we want to buy ASW hardwares now, there are more lighter systems that functions the same and can be replaced without hassle.
One example
The MAD system used is the CAE AN/ASQ-508(V). The MAD sensor only weighs around 50kg. CAE has developed a replacement of the AN/ASQ-508(V) called MAD-XR. MAD-XR has the same performance as AN/ASQ-508(V), but weighs less than 2kg.
Sonobuoys sizes has reduced considerably. No need to cut holes in the fuselage for sonobuoy launchers. Just have sonobuoy pods hung from weapon pylons.
As for pylons, ATR-72 only have 2, on the fuselage.
CN-235 possible max 8 pylons, 4 on wing, 4 on stub wings on side sponsons
. This is the stub wings on actual aircraft. Also see the engine is equipped with IR exhaust suppressor, a piece of equipment that is not available for ATR-72. IR exhaust suppressor is used to reduce the possibility of the engine being hit by heat-seeking missiles.
So what's you get after spending ten of millions building one of a kind items that benefits Indonesian industry other than getting to say ohh wow cool!
ATR-72 wing is not designed to be able to have weapons pylons.
ATR-72 based MPA have only 2 fuselage pylons to carry torpedoes or other stuff. Compare that to 8 possible weapons pylons on CN-235.
So you prefer spending hundreds of millions to have 2 platforms (CN-235 MSA & ATR-72 MPA) performing exactly the same missions so that in the future we will have to spend double the money on different spare parts and maintenance schedules ?
I don't care if we go for ATR-72 if theoretically we don't have the CN-235 MSA. But reality is that we now have those, and why bother going different?
Turkish navy even with 2 different platforms, the ASW systems for both are totally the same (Thales AMASCOS), so mission operators could fly in both aircraft, sitting in exactly the same work station, flying ASW missions.
What would happen with RMAF is 2 different aircraft, 2 different maritime patrol operating systems (CN-235 MSA with Cartenav, same as MMEA CL-415 and ATR-72 with Leonardo ATOS)
Indonesian defence minister visits Washington to finalise F-15 purchase
Prabowo Subianto is meeting this week with US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and CIA Director William Burns. Despite financial difficulties and anti-corruption procedures, Jakarta continues to rearm, with Washington's backing, in the hope of confronting Beijing.
Is it? Indo has not even allocated funding internally for this i.e. permission to acquire foreign loans and wants the US 2 pay for it. It may be more credible if Indo is Israel.
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 18 2022, 06:02 PM)
ATR-72 wing is not designed to be able to have weapons pylons.
ATR-72 based MPA have only 2 fuselage pylons to carry torpedoes or other stuff. Compare that to 8 possible weapons pylons on CN-235.
So you prefer spending hundreds of millions to have 2 platforms (CN-235 MSA & ATR-72 MPA) performing exactly the same missions so that in the future we will have to spend double the money on different spare parts and maintenance schedules ?
I don't care if we go for ATR-72 if theoretically we don't have the CN-235 MSA. But reality is that we now have those, and why bother going different?
Turkish navy even with 2 different platforms, the ASW systems for both are totally the same (Thales AMASCOS), so mission operators could fly in both aircraft, sitting in exactly the same work station, flying ASW missions.
What would happen with RMAF is 2 different aircraft, 2 different maritime patrol operating systems (CN-235 MSA with Cartenav, same as MMEA CL-415 and ATR-72 with Leonardo ATOS)
yeah sorry to burst the bubble but we do not spend even a dime for a the CN MSA even the training are part of the package
and for the ATR MPA, you've actually answered your own question, no doubt that the MALTEM will be one of the factor beside the cost factor for the government to choose the ATR
Is it? Indo has not even allocated funding internally for this i.e. permission to acquire foreign loans and wants the US 2 pay for it. It may be more credible if Indo is Israel.
ID is not a cohesive entity and different ministries,minister & agency are competing to push forward their own agenda particularly as both Menhen & MOF are vying to occupied the presidential office.
There is fund allocated by the MOF but it only enough to pay for LCA,
ID is not a cohesive entity and different ministries,minister & agency are competing to push forward their own agenda particularly as both Menhen & MOF are vying to occupied the presidential office.
There is fund allocated by the MOF but it only enough to pay for LCA,
No. It is only for a handful of Rafales I think with the rest all pending foreign loans. Many projects are in limbo as there is no funding. Some are dead like their Elang Hitam. Some may come ffbnw like their delayed iver frigates.
Im sure you understand that they like to enunciate their wishlist to the whole world or sign letters of intents or indicate interest w4 confirming they could buy them let alone integrare equipment from different "planets".
I suspect the bluster is for political mileage. Their modus operandi is now quite well known - to other countries and defence manufacturers.
Btw, do you see any mainstream media even talking about that claimed f15 purchase from Intel Onlines so called "sources" ? Thats the amt of credence given to that claim.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 19 2022, 09:10 PM
No. It is only for a handful of Rafales I think with the rest all pending foreign loans. Many projects are in limbo as there is no funding. Some are dead like their Elang Hitam. Some may come ffbnw like their delayed iver frigates.
Im sure you understand that they like to enunciate their wishlist to the whole world or sign letters of intents or indicate interest w4 confirming they could buy them let alone integrare equipment from different "planets".
I suspect the bluster is for political mileage. Their modus operandi is now quite well known - to other countries and defence manufacturers.
Btw, do you see any mainstream media even talking about that claimed f15 purchase from Intel Onlines so called "sources" ? Thats the amt of credence given to that claim.
One thing is the seller countries even want to offer loan. It's another thing whether or not ID MOF even want to approve those loan in the 1st place. due to the risk involved while not getting much out of it. ID rupiah isn't a very stable currencies and they themselves had been burned with devaluation & inflation so many times before
You see lot of news where the countertrade for all these expensive item usually involves the host country throwing away their old depletated equipment with the purchase rather than the usual counter trade, market enteries etc etc.Then there's Jokowi who made a very public remark on the high level of imported goods in their defence spending.
So whatever comes out of their manhen mouth is basically just that. A bunch of hotair for his own political millage and not an indication of the country willingness, needs Nor desire to even acquired those equipment. Of course it's goes a lot further, whatever acquisition nor long term plan like the minimum essential force that ID gov draw up. It just lips service to the global power, neighbors & own citizens. The reality is ID has NO intension to modernising their military, they are very comfortable with their territorial defense formation and they are not going to involve themselves in other people war. It's not in their best interest to do so.
ID citizens like those in India and PRC are overly nationalistic, overly proud but at the same time lack in confidence in themselves due to domestic circumstances. Economic wise all these 3 countries are mostly lead by domestic consumption for their large population thus overly protectionist economics policies and not apart of any economic, military alliance and thus has a high degree of distrust to outsiders and thus they would just sweap things under the carpet not interested in public discussion on the merit of doing something for fear of losing face with the neighbors. Thus this sorts of politics suits them.
SG,like MY,NZ,aus,JP,SK are export oriented economics thus highly dependent on the US lead global orders. A collapsed of such systems would see each & every one of us starving.
One thing is the seller countries even want to offer loan. It's another thing whether or not ID MOF even want to approve those loan in the 1st place. due to the risk involved while not getting much out of it. ID rupiah isn't a very stable currencies and they themselves had been burned with devaluation & inflation so many times before
You see lot of news where the countertrade for all these expensive item usually involves the host country throwing away their old depletated equipment with the purchase rather than the usual counter trade, market enteries etc etc.Then there's Jokowi who made a very public remark on the high level of imported goods in their defence spending.
So whatever comes out of their manhen mouth is basically just that. A bunch of hotair for his own political millage and not an indication of the country willingness, needs Nor desire to even acquired those equipment. Of course it's goes a lot further, whatever acquisition nor long term plan like the minimum essential force that ID gov draw up. It just lips service to the global power, neighbors & own citizens. The reality is ID has NO intension to modernising their military, they are very comfortable with their territorial defense formation and they are not going to involve themselves in other people war. It's not in their best interest to do so.
ID citizens like those in India and PRC are overly nationalistic, overly proud but at the same time lack in confidence in themselves due to domestic circumstances. Economic wise all these 3 countries are mostly lead by domestic consumption for their large population thus overly protectionist economics policies and not apart of any economic, military alliance and thus has a high degree of distrust to outsiders and thus they would just sweap things under the carpet not interested in public discussion on the merit of doing something for fear of losing face with the neighbors. Thus this sorts of politics suits them.
SG,like MY,NZ,aus,JP,SK are export oriented economics thus highly dependent on the US lead global orders. A collapsed of such systems would see each & every one of us starving.
What are you talking about?
Anyway Western govts do not usually offer loans. FIs do and thats also not easy to get esp. if there are in the billions. A few like France offer some form of barter trade as a means to compete with the US. The US defence coys almost exclusively do not deal in barter trade.
Anyway Western govts do not usually offer loans. FIs do and thats also not easy to get esp. if there are in the billions. A few like France offer some form of barter trade as a means to compete with the US. The US defence coys almost exclusively do not deal in barter trade.
Technically US like France or even UK mostly deal with counter trade by giving preferential access to their market, increase in FDI to buyer countries & technology transfer for the buyer of their weapons.
Market access that ID couldn't care much about because they aren't an export oriented economy and are obsessed with being self sufficient. The same thing could be said with Philippines, they won't benefit from more market access or counter trade (because they don't actually produce much products in the 1st place) and thus why US like SK just straight up offered them loans.
As said so many times before. Don't judge other countries with your own nationalistic tinted lense. It up to you to think that whatever SG is doing is the bestest things since slice bread. But it doesn't mean other nations had to follow exactly what SG is doing.
ID are not interested in helping neither MY,SG Nor the west contain china. you are free to be disappointed with it. But it is what it is.
Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto during meeting with Boeing officials. Credit to Pentagon Press Sec & Indonesian Embassy Washington.
The visit ended. So where is the F15 buy or US buying or helping to buy F15s for a financially strapped Indo as mentioned by Intelligence Online. P.S: The magazine depends on sources who often have their own agenda e.g. middle-men or downright wrong.
Pentagon Press Secretary Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder provided the following readout:
Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III met with Indonesian Minister of Defense Prabowo Subianto on October 20 to discuss opportunities for further alignment between the United States and Indonesia as the two countries pursue a shared vision of a free and open Indo-Pacific, as well as issues of global concern.
Secretary Austin expressed appreciation for Indonesia’s leadership role within ASEAN, in the Indo-Pacific, and around the world. Both leaders emphasized the importance of continued cooperation as regional security dynamics become increasingly complex. To support this aim, Secretary Austin expressed his interest in continuing to assist Indonesia’s military modernization and to strengthen interoperability between the United States and Indonesia.
The two leaders discussed significant advancements in U.S.-Indonesia defense cooperation, including the recent expansion of exercise “Super†Garuda Shield this summer, the largest-ever exercise between the two countries.
Secretary Austin expressed his support for Minister Prabowo’s focus on military professionalization, noting that Indonesia now has cadets in three U.S. service academies. He also emphasized the importance of the shared values between the United States and Indonesia—two of the world’s largest democracies. Both leaders reiterated the importance of maintaining the international rules and norms that preserve a free and open Indo-Pacific.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 23 2022, 09:15 PM
I dont know why Indo tend to jump whenever their officials attend a sales briefing (which happens a lot by the way with armed forces around the world). E.g the US has been trying to sell P8 Poseidons to Sg.
Sg has not bought them in spite of indicating in Budget 2022 that RSN will replace the Fokker 50 MPAs.
A combined maritime task group comprised of Australian and Singaporean warships and troops has completed Exercise Trident.
Three warships and over 1600 people were involved in the exercise, a continued commitment to bilateral joint military exercises under the 2015 Singapore-Australia Comprehensive Partnership.
The exercise came to an end with a formal closing ceremony held at Tiger Hill at Shoalwater Bay, Queensland.
During the exercise, troops from the 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, and 3rd Battalion, Singapore Guards, completed land integration training before embarking on Royal Australian Navy landing helicopter dock HMAS Adelaide and Republic of Singapore Navy landing ship tanks RSS Endurance and RSS Persistence.
Trident’s Deputy Director Captain Tim Byles, from the Royal Australian Navy, said the co-led exercise was an opportunity to build on an over 30-year defence partnership between the Australian Defence Force and the Singapore Armed Forces.
“This year we have integrated our staff, tested our operational planning skills and executed the tactical phase of the training, which includes ship to shore operations, and an offensive land manoeuvre as the culminating activity,†Captain Byles said.
This was the eighth iteration of Exercise Trident and the amphibious training component was a first during the bilateral activity.
“We demonstrated the ability to project a ground combat element from the vessels to the beach, with support from rotary wing assets and small boat teams, before the seizure of an inland objective,†Captain Byles said.
Close air support and troop lift was provided by Republic of Singapore Air Force CH-47D helicopters permanently based at Oakey in Queensland.
The troops will continue their training in the area into October, before the Singapore Armed Forces wrap up additional training in Australia later in the year.
Kudos HIMARS! Russian Military Experts Say US Systems Are Confusing Counter-Battery Ops By Changing Trajectory
QUOTE
A video released by Ukrainian troops on the frontline is making rounds on social media, showing the American-made HIMARS MLRS in action. In the clip that lasts for about a minute, around eight to nine HIMARS rockets can be seen launched, which follow different trajectories.
A Russian-language media outlet published a report about this video citing unnamed experts, asserting that the video provides insight into the flight path adopted by HIMARS rockets, which interferes with the counter-battery operations of the enemy.
According to these unnamed experts, the HIMARS rockets, after launch, change their flight path almost immediately, which distinguishes this American system from other conventional MLRS in which the projectiles fly along a ballistic trajectory.
It is this feature of the HIMARS rockets which, in high likelihood, prevents the enemy counter-battery radars from determining the exact coordinates of the launchers, thereby making it impossible to deliver accurate retaliatory strikes.
Experts further noted that HIMARS rockets are not always known to change their trajectory. This ability is only used by the Ukrainian forces when the MLRS is located in areas with a threat of retaliatory strikes.
Counter-battery radars detect and track incoming projectiles and, based on their trajectories, calculate their point of origin, so if the rockets can alter their courses in such a way as to confuse the counter-battery radars, then it is indeed possible to prevent precise retaliatory strikes.
However, it is not just the trajectory of rockets but also the sound generated when rockets are launched that the counter-battery systems use to determine the location of enemy launchers.
EurAsian Times asked an expert to see if such a feature is known to exist in MLRS rockets or do the HIMARS rockets have them. Maj Gen Harsha Kakar (Retd), who served in the Regiment of Artillery in the Indian Army, said that it is not possible to comment on it as there is no data to confirm or deny it.
When asked how HIMARS units have survived the retaliatory strikes from Russian forces until now, as not even a single unit has been confirmed destroyed so far, Kakar said, “HIMARS, like other mobile rocket systems, adopts shoot and scoot tactics.
This implies launching its rockets and moving to another location. This is adopted by most weapon systems currently to beat counter bombardment by the enemy.†“It is nothing new. Most weapon systems which fire salvos are so designed,†Kakar added.
“The information about HIMARS – launched missiles that mislead counter artillery radars by maneuvering in flight is indeed impressive,†Konstantinos Grivas told the EurAsian Times, who teaches advanced weapons systems at the Hellenic Army Academy.
Grivas hinted at the possibility that the US might have sent small numbers of under-development PrSM (Precision Strike Missiles) to Ukraine while noting it is rather unlikely.
The most likely possibility, according to Grivas, is that the Ukrainian forces could be using “HIMARS in reconnaissance-strike complexes with the rockets being able to update the targeting data in flight via data link and adjust their trajectory accordingly using lateral thrusters so that they can engage targets in motion or, precisely, to have an erratic course that will confuse counter artillery radars.â€
He noted that the Israeli TCS (trajectory correction system), which has been presented about twenty years ago, had similar capabilities and said that “presumably, the US has developed rockets with similar capabilities for HIMARS and MLRS.â€
Russia Acknowledge The Effectiveness Of HIMARS
QUOTE
The HIMARS MLRS provides Ukraine with a rapid precision strike capability at standoff ranges without needing air power, thereby allowing the Ukrainian military to compensate for the small size of its air force.
Therefore, over the past few months, Ukrainian forces have been able to destroy hundreds of Russian positions and ammunition stockpiles far from the frontlines by leveraging the long-range HIMARS rockets.
The effectiveness of HIMARS on the battlefield made the pro-Kremlin figures so nervous that they publicly voiced their concerns.
For example, a former commander of Russian separatist forces in eastern Ukraine, Igor Girkin, said on July 10 on the Telegram messaging app that “the Russian air defense systems, which relatively (very relatively) coped with attacks with the help of “Tochek-U†and “Uraganov†– turned out to be ineffective against massive strikes by Hymers (HIMARS) missiles.â€
There has also been some appreciation of the precision of HIMARS rockets from Russian eyewitness accounts, such as Roman Saponkov, a Russian military blogger who is embedded with frontline Russian forces and was present during a HIMARS strike on Chernobaevka, Kherson, on July 9, which made quite an impression on him.
“As it happened yesterday, I watched the HIMARS strike on Chernobaevka, Kherson, almost before our eyes. I have been under fire many times, but I was struck that the package, 5 or 6 missiles, landed almost into a penny. Usually, MLRS fall over large areas and at maximum distance scatter in a fan-like manner,†Saponkov said on July 10 in a Telegram post.
Meanwhile, there have been regular claims from Russia that its forces have destroyed HIMARS units. However, these claims remain unverified as of yet.
When asked about the overall effectiveness of HIMARS on the battlefield, Maj Gen Kakar said that the HIMARS is more suitable against stationary targets rather than mobile targets.
“Destruction of bridges, railway yards, ammunition depots, communication centers, and troops concentrations can change the nature of the conflict. It can stall offensives and delay the movement of reserves. This is what HIMARS has done. Its effectiveness against mobile targets is limited,†Kakar said.
However, the US army was able to use it and surgically strike targets with precision at around >105km in Afghanistan.
This means that is its actual range is more >100km.
In Ukraine, it has been routinely used to strike targets at more than >100km.
P.S: Russian defence manufacturers tend to overstate capabilities. Western defence manufacturers do the opposite.
----------------------
In SEA and Oceania, Himars has been bought by Singapore and recently Australia.
Info from open source is limited. As shared previously, Singapore has bought more than >108 launch pods. This was declassified by Lockheed Martin (until 2016 only). This would mean that Singapore has at least 54 Himars launchers (until 2016). One launcher + one supply vehicle generally (although the US army may use 2 supply vehicles per launcher.).
I note that newly built GMRLS rockets are largely the ER versions with range in excess of >150km. These were purchased by Australia recently. If Sg bought new GMLRS rockets recently, it is likely these will be the newer ER versions.
The visit ended. So where is the F15 buy or US buying or helping to buy F15s for a financially strapped Indo as mentioned by Intelligence Online. P.S: The magazine depends on sources who often have their own agenda e.g. middle-men or downright wrong.
Recently, a Singapore Himars (ID: 21641MID) was featured in a Lockheed Martin Video on the Precision Strike Missile (PRsM). The PRsM is slated to replace and has the same impact as the 300km MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS). A single Himars can carry 2 PRsM as compared to one ATACMs. This is a heavy missile comparable to the Russian Iskandar Complex missile. The PRSM has a range in excess of 650km: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/0...rmation-update/
It is not known why a Singapore Himars is doing in the video. However, the vehicle ID was apparently redacted/blurred after this was discovered. See same revised video:
Maybe it is a just a typo error. Let us just forget about this ok. Nothing to see here; move along people.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 25 2022, 03:09 PM
Panglima Tentera Darat (PTD), Jen Tan Sri Dato’ Seri Zamrose Mohd Zain memeriksa pelancar RPG-7
Tentera Darat (TD) menerima perolehan beberapa aset baharu berupa Kenderaan Jenis B (KJB) dan beberapa laras senjata bantuan yang berlangsung di 92 Depot Kenderaan Pusat (92 DKP), Kem Batu Kentomen pada 26 Okt 2022.
Terdahulu, majlis penyerahan aset TD telah disempurnakan oleh Panglima Tentera Darat (PTD), Jen Tan Sri Dato’ Seri Zamrose Mohd Zain diiringi oleh Panglima Logisitik TD, Mej Jen Hj Abdul Aziz Samsi @ Hj Shamsudin.
Antara aset-aset KJB yang diterima melibatkan tiga unit Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck-Multi Cargo Palletised (HEMTT-MCPLS), 10 unit Trak 5 Tan dan 40 unit 1 Tan GS Kargo, 32 unit Trak 3 Tan GS Kargo (untuk kegunaan MALBATT), 36 unit Kenderaan Penarik Meriam dan 40 unit Trak 1 Tan Fitted For Radio (FFR).
Beberapa laras senjata bantuan baharu yang diterima melibatkan 72 unit Mortar 81mm (Complete Set) bersama TALOS Fire Control System, 27 unit Multiple Grenade Launcher 40mm dan 150 unit Light Anti Tank Weapon Short Range (Rocket Propelled Grenade).
Turut diterima sebanyak 98 unit Assault Boat bersama Single Outboard Engine of 40HP or 60HP 4 Stroke (Tiller or Remote).
Aset-aset berkenaan juga sebahagiannya telah diserahkan secara berperingkat sejak dari awal tahun 2022.
Perolehan aset ini sejajar dengan Tonggak Pertama Perintah Ulung PTD Ke-28 iaitu Kelangsungan Misi dan Kesiagaan di mana salah satu hasrat PTD Ke-28 adalah memperkukuh serta mempertingkatkan kesiagaan TD.
Turut hadir, Timbalan Panglima Tentera Darat, Lt Jen Datuk Seri Mohammad Ab Rahman, Asisten Ketua Staf Operasi dan Latihan, Mej Jen Malek Razak Sulaiman dan beberapa wakil daripada syarikat pembekal.
Hishammuddin: Mindef submitted report on procurement of 36 LCA to MoF
By Bernama October 27, 2022 @ 9:40pm
PETALING JAYA: The Defence Ministry has submitted a report on the procurement of 36 light combat aircraft (LCA) for the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) to the Finance Ministry for further action.
Caretaker Defence Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein said the physical assessment and price negotiation for the proposed acquisition had been completed.
The ministry, he said, was currently awaiting a decision from the Finance Ministry.
"We definitely need the LCA, and I believe there will be no problem if I use the previous (procurement) method, where the assets are determined by the end user.
"This is my promise to the air force," he told reporters after attending a ceremony to send off the first batch of the new Malaysian Battalion (Mallbatt 850-10) peacekeeping force for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil), at the Subang air base today.
Boeing to showcase new F-15EX advanced fighter at Indo Defence 2022
By Asian Military Review - October 28, 2022
Boeing F-15EX
The F-15EX features next-generation technologies and is best-in-class in terms of payload, range and speed.Boeing display to also include CH-47 Chinook, ScanEagle Integrator, AH-64 Apache, AEW&C, P-8 and lifecycle support.
Boeing will be showcasing its advanced capabilities to regional customers at the Indo Defence 2022 show including the latest and most advanced version of the F-15.
“We’re excited to participate at Indo Defence 2022, engage with our customers on their existing and future needs, and highlight how Boeing can offer advanced defense, services capabilities and capacity building to match those needs,†said Alex Feldman, president of Boeing Southeast Asia.
“As the largest economy and country by population in ASEAN, we continue to support the development of aerospace and defense industries in Indonesia.â€
Israel Successfully Tests Advanced Anti-ship Missile System The 'Gabriel 5' missile system will 'help protect Israel's strategic assets,' the military said following the test conducted by the navy
Israel successfully tested a new ship-to-ship missile system called "Gabriel 5" which was fired from a Sa'ar 6-class corvette of the Israeli Navy, the INS Oz.
According to the Israel Defense Forces, the test was conducted in order to "see how the ship can deal with different threats by using new and advanced weaponry."
The "Gabriel 5" is an advanced ship-to-ship missile system capable of reaching various targets hundreds of kilometers away. The military added that the system can "help protect Israel's strategic assets" – an apparent reference to the Karish natural gas field which has become a target of Hezbollah. The IDF added that the successful test of the system will pave the way towards installing it on all Sa'ar 6 ships for operational use.
Although Israel is optimistic it will reach a U.S.-brokered deal with Lebanon regarding the maritime dispute, the security establishment is concerned that Lebanon-based Hezbollah will attempt to target the Karish rig.
Israel has beefed up its forces around the Karish gas field over the summer, following the downing of four Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean Sea.
One drone was shot down over Lebanon’s territorial waters in late June, and did not pose danger to Israel, according to the Israel Defense Forces. A few days later, on July 2, the IDF successfully intercepted three Hezbollah drones over the Mediterranean.
The three drones were shot down by fighter jets and the Israeli Navy's Barak interception system. The military believes that the drones were not armed, and did not pose a risk to the country or to the gas field.
Interestingly, ST and IAI or Proteus has opted to use the max range of 290km (no booster) thereabout in its marketing materials - likely to keep to global Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) guidelines.
Or that as OEM missile manufacturers, they will only sell Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent with a reduced range i.e. 290km (without booster) or max 300km limit (with booster (reduced fuel so that it does not breach the 300km ceiling)).
However, Singapore and Israel as OEM manufacturers can deploy the same missile with its max range of 400km i.e. mixed high-low profile.
Ground based launcher at 0.19 timestamp in the video.
There is a significant difference between Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent compared to other anti ship missiles.
This missile is built to be a ground attack missile and anti ship missile at the same time. That is why Estonia and Finland bought it. Where do you think the missiles can fly to apart from the sea targets? Mother Russia.
Anti-ship missiles typically use active radar and/or combined with some form of optics. The missile needs to home in on a moving ship in the littorals or open sea. However, these same guidance systems often pose problems for land attacks or when the missile is near large land masses and islets/islands. The guidance system becomes confused. Anti-ship missile terminal guidance radar is optimized for picking a target out of ocean wave clutter. So it is not ideal to use anti ship missiles for land attacks unless it is for coastal i.e. shore attacks. Some anti-ship missiles do not have a land attack capability - harpoons got it later in the form of harpoons blk 2 and Exocets got it in the later MM40 Blk 3 version - but again, they are noted to be effective only for shore targets and not deep in-land attacks.
Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent likely has a reliable GPS, inertial guidance and missile data link - comparable to Tomahawk (or did the Israelis/Singaporeans got US tech in?)
The result is a data link capable Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent missile that puts it in the same category as the Block V Tomahawks (but half the range - more than enough for Israel, Singapore, Finland, etc.)
QUOTE
Sea Serpent/Gabriel/Blue Spear range is 430km
European defence ministry officials at the Sg Airshow in Feb 2022.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 29 2022, 12:46 PM
Singapore Armed Forces formally integrates its 4th branch - the Digital and Intelligence Service (DIS) (Motto: Defend and Dominate)
MISSION:
The DIS will defend and dominate in the digital domain.
As part of an integrated SAF, the DIS will enhance Singapore’s security, from peace to war.
QUOTE
The DIS will comprise several groups within the Singapore Armed Forces previously established to deal with such threats, which are the C4I Community created in April 2012, Defence Cyber Organisation in March 2017, SAF C4 Command in November 2017, and the Cybersecurity Task Force in December 2020.[4][5] The DIS will consolidate these organisations under one service branch dedicated to psychological defence, tackling digital domain threats, cybersecurity and military intelligence.[6] It was projected to be formally established at the end of 2022.[2]
On 2 August 2022, the Parliament of Singapore amended the Singapore Armed Forces Act and constitution, formally placing the DIS under the SAF and granting the Chief of Digital and Intelligence Service (CDI) legal powers.[7] The DIS was formally inaugurated on 28 October 2022 at the SAFTI Military Institute. The State Colour was presented by President Halimah Yacoob and the first Chief of Digital and Intelligence Service, BG Lee Yi-Jin, was sworn into command.[8]
Branches of the Singapore Armed Forces:
Sg Mindef
Land
Air
Sea
Digital and Intelligence Service (New)
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 29 2022, 02:23 PM
Singapore Armed Forces formally integrates its 4th branch - the Digital and Intelligence Service (DIS) (Motto: Defend and Dominate)
MISSION:
The DIS will defend and dominate in the digital domain.
As part of an integrated SAF, the DIS will enhance Singapore’s security, from peace to war.
Branches of the Singapore Armed Forces:
Sg Mindef
Land
Air
Sea
Digital and Intelligence Service (New)
Long story short - SAF has upgraded its cyber defence and warfare units to new level i.e. branch within the SAF. This will allow better coordination, focus and channeling of resources with respect to cyber defence and cyber warfare. E.g. SAF can leverage on tens of thousands of NS conscripts well versed in cyber knowledge and train them to be cyber troops e.g. hackers, tool developers, etc. The enemy will virtually be facing an armies of well trained hackers/cyber troops. Most of the best hackers are not your uncles in army fatigues but young men fresh out of universities and other educational institutions.
A conflict with SAF will be full spectrum warfare - air, sea, land and cyberspace.
Wars can be won or lost via cyber warfare. Infrastructure can be destroyed or taken over e.g. power stations, dams, etc. Military systems e.g. radar, etc. destroyed or spoofed. People can be dis-informed - causing mass panic. People (civilians and armed forces) can die from cyber warfare.
Ground based launcher at 0.19 timestamp in the video.
There is a significant difference between Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent compared to other anti ship missiles.
This missile is built to be a ground attack missile and anti ship missile at the same time. That is why Estonia and Finland bought it. Where do you think the missiles can fly to apart from the sea targets? Mother Russia.
Anti-ship missiles typically use active radar and/or combined with some form of optics. The missile needs to home in on a moving ship in the littorals or open sea. However, these same guidance systems often pose problems for land attacks or when the missile is near large land masses and islets/islands. The guidance system becomes confused. Anti-ship missile terminal guidance radar is optimized for picking a target out of ocean wave clutter. So it is not ideal to use anti ship missiles for land attacks unless it is for coastal i.e. shore attacks. Some anti-ship missiles do not have a land attack capability - harpoons got it later in the form of harpoons blk 2 and Exocets got it in the later MM40 Blk 3 version - but again, they are noted to be effective only for shore targets and not deep in-land attacks.
Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent likely has a reliable GPS, inertial guidance and missile data link - comparable to Tomahawk (or did the Israelis/Singaporeans got US tech in?)
The result is a data link capable Gabriel 5/Blue Spear/Sea Serpent missile that puts it in the same category as the Block V Tomahawks (but half the range - more than enough for Israel, Singapore, Finland, etc.)
European defence ministry officials at the Sg Airshow in Feb 2022.
Someone asked if there are submarine and air launched versions of the Blue Spear missile
AFAIK, likely yes for submarine given the design of the Israeli Dolphin-class 2 submarine and Singaporian Type 218SG submarines. No news of air launched but an air launched version will have its range likely doubled given that the missile can glide+propelled by the turbo jet engine from altitude.
Long story short - SAF has upgraded its cyber defence and warfare units to new level i.e. branch within the SAF. This will allow better coordination, focus and channeling of resources with respect to cyber defence and cyber warfare. E.g. SAF can leverage on tens of thousands of NS conscripts well versed in cyber knowledge and train them to be cyber troops e.g. hackers, tool developers, etc. The enemy will virtually be facing an armies of well trained hackers/cyber troops. Most of the best hackers are not your uncles in army fatigues but young men fresh out of universities and other educational institutions.
A conflict with SAF will be full spectrum warfare - air, sea, land and cyberspace.
Wars can be won or lost via cyber warfare. Infrastructure can be destroyed or taken over e.g. power stations, dams, etc. Military systems e.g. radar, etc. destroyed or spoofed. People can be dis-informed - causing mass panic. People (civilians and armed forces) can die from cyber warfare.
Looks like PT Pindad will be licensing the Arquus VAB MK3 6x6. A recent pic of a rebadged VAB MK3 6x6 already with a Pindad logo to be on display at Indo Defence 2022.
A MOU was signed during Eurosatory 2022 between PT Pindad & Arquus.
QUOTE
ARQUUS AND PT PINDAD SIGN A MOU AT EUROSATORY 2022 TO COLLABORATE ON FUTURE PROGRAMS FOR INDONESIA
On June 14th, Arquus and PT Pindad signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to establish future collaboration in land systems platform for Indonesia. This MoU covers the development and production of new armored vehicles, as well as corresponding systems and services. With this agreement, both companies agree to turn an exemplary relationship into an official, and larger scale partnership.
Arquus and PT Pindad have been running a long-term and successful relationship over the past 15 years. Throughout these years, Arquus has been supplying PT Pindad with major components and parts which have been integrated in Indonesian-made armored vehicles.
In the framework of that cooperation, Arquus has notably supplied powerpacks for ANOA 6x6 APC vehicles and BADAK 6x6 IFV, currently serving in the Indonesian Army. Arquus has also supplied rolling chassis for the KOMODO 4x4 multipurpose vehicle.
To keep building on this close relationship, Arquus and PT Pindad have decided to sign a MoU to officialize their discussions and establish their partnership.
The aim of this MoU is to cooperate in the field of military vehicles and systems to address the current needs of the Indonesian Armed Forces. Such cooperation will cover multi-purpose armored vehicles, reconnaissance vehicles, APC and IFV, as well as remote-controlled weapon stations. It could also include development, product qualification, production and assembly, plus aftersales services.
A series of agreements and/or cooperation were added to longstanding ones e.g. with the US and Israel to boost cooperation on cyber warfare and security. Similar to other military fields, expertise is built in large part via experiential learning. What better way to train then train/learn from countries e.g. the baltic states which face near daily cyber attacks.
Another view of the deployed F16Vs and F15SGs with clearer serial numbers.
From the serial numbers (see my previous posts on this), Singapore would have bought circa 96 to 100 F16s. They gave 7 or 8 early A/B models to Thailand. So, this would mean that they have a current inventory of around 90 F16Vs.
Mai's note: Sg does not publish its orbat but it is not exactly a secret as well - military equipment need to be serialised. Military enthusiasts and even the main stream media rely on older data or presumed ones. It may not be correct.
RSAF flexes its muscles at Pitch Black By Nigel Pittaway | Darwin | 5 October 2022
The G550AEW (RSAF's) provided support mainly for Blue Air during Pitch Black 2022, with Red Air being controlled by the RAAF’s ground-based 114 Mobile Control and Reporting Unit (MCRU).
This is a Dissimilar Aircraft Combat Training (DACT) where controls and limits are on opposing forces to test systems (and not all systems will be used due to OpSec). Tier 3 air forces e.g. RAAF and RSAF will never reveal everything.
But it is likely that RAAF's F35s were being used nose-cold (radar switched off and rely on RSAF's G550 AEW or what we like to call AWACs) so they can see the F15GS, a large 4.5 gen combat jet, first. The F35s are also helped by its stealth so the F15SGs(which has to rely on its own radar and/or MCRU's AN/TPS-77 ground based radar) saw it later.
QUOTE
One of the factors in the radar horizon formula is antenna height. The same aircraft operating at 3000 feet against an antenna height of 25,000 feet (in an Airborne Warning and Control, AWACs, type system) would have a radar detection horizon of over 250 miles.
The range of an AWACS is much greater than that of ground-based radars - over 200 miles to the horizon and over 400 miles to another aircraft at a high altitude. A line-of-sight radar standing 50 feet above the ground theoretically can detect at about 30 miles a bomber flying at 300 feet above the ground. At greater distances, the bomber is hidden by theearth's curvature. The actual detection range might be less than the theoretical range because of the disruption or blocking of radar pulses by terrain features such as hills. The actual detection range might be greater than the theoretical range if the radar is located on a hill.
It is always important to know the context of DACTs but this is generally kept secret. Reporters often give an incomplete and therefore incorrect picture.
This is not to take anything from the F35s which Sg is already buying - excellent excellent 5th gen combat jet that will dominate everything in the region - esp when used in a battle network of sensors and shooters (possessed only by Australia and Singapore at this time).
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 30 2022, 05:31 PM
A key consideration is that Sg wants control over the systems for her own modifications or mix and match systems. That is likely why Sg has not selected the P8 yet. Remember, it is not the platform but systems which matter more. Also, weapons do not need to be carried by the MPA per se but other shooters in a battle network e.g. a USV with torpedoes or F35 or F15SG carrying a QuickSink JDAM.
A key consideration is that Sg wants control over the systems for her own modifications or mix and match systems. That is likely why Sg has not selected the P8 yet. Remember, it is not the platform but systems which matter more. Also, weapons do not need to be carried by the MPA per se but other shooters in a battle network e.g. a USV with torpedoes or F35 or F15SG carrying a QuickSink JDAM.
Basically SG could not continue to relies on the US solely anymore. SG enter into an agreement with the US as a deterrence to it two nearest neighbour. But as geopolitics conditions change and the 2 bigger neighbors is more crucial to US interest and the fact that 2/3 of SG is ethnically Chinese which could put them at a very difficult situation.
If I'm a betting man, I say the IAI is the likely winner of the MPA tenders.
Basically SG could not continue to relies on the US solely anymore. SG enter into an agreement with the US as a deterrence to it two nearest neighbour. But as geopolitics conditions change and the 2 bigger neighbors is more crucial to US interest and the fact that 2/3 of SG is ethnically Chinese which could put them at a very difficult situation.
If I'm a betting man, I say the IAI is the likely winner of the MPA tenders.
I have absolutely no idea what you are yapping about - most of the time; this time agreements against other nations and race. I think you are baiting.
Sg has never relied soley on the US for her systems. Sg has always mix and match for maximum utility and cost effectiveness.
I also think IAI's ELM-2022ES AESA MPA radar as the key sensor:
We need to separate the aircraft from the sensors though. The Bombardier and Falcon 10X can fly faster and higher than the Boeing 737. Whether this is important in the context of South East Asia is another matter for consideration e.g. it could be a P8 but with the ELM-2022 AESA radar instead of the US AN/APY-10. The ELM-2022 is said to have higher fidelity in littoral conditions with air-to-air surveillance function (mini AWAC).
Remember this:
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 30 2022, 05:56 PM
Basically SG could not continue to relies on the US solely anymore. SG enter into an agreement with the US as a deterrence to it two nearest neighbour. But as geopolitics conditions change and the 2 bigger neighbors is more crucial to US interest and the fact that 2/3 of SG is ethnically Chinese which could put them at a very difficult situation.
If I'm a betting man, I say the IAI is the likely winner of the MPA tenders.
These two bigger neighbours have direct interest and potential conflict in SCS with PRC, will need u.s more. Sg so far has been reliable and trustworthy as ally, unlike her northern neighbour.
This post has been edited by icemanfx: Oct 30 2022, 06:07 PM
We need to separate the aircraft from the sensors though. The Bombardier and Falcon 10X can fly faster and higher than the Boeing 737. Whether this is important in the context of South East Asia is another matter for consideration e.g. it could be a P8 but with the ELM-2022 AESA radar instead of the US AN/APY-10. The ELM-2022 is said to have higher fidelity in littoral conditions with air-to-air surveillance function (mini AWAC).
Remember this:
See the belly under the Boeing 737:
The P8s An/APY-10 maritime radar is located at the nose cone of the Boeing 737 but there is a blind spot at the back. An option exists to fit in smaller An/APY-10 at the tail of the aircraft which was taken up by India(?). Hence, a belly mounted radar is preferable as there is no need for an additional one in the tail.
FYI, the USN's 7th fleet and RAN's P8s operate out of Singapore air bases and patrol the South China Sea (SCS). Whatever platform and systems SG select must be able to integrate or have interoperability with USN and RAN in case of contingencies in the SCS. SG has do to some heavy weight lifting for the time being in ensuring stability in SCS. Malaysia is stuck with ancient assets and Indo is a total mess when it comes to assets (old and a few new) and future procurement (Indonesia zoo - from all over the world and maybe from other planets soon) (provided it can get loans in the first place).
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 30 2022, 06:30 PM
Dun worry, SG will never detect RMN invisible ships.
The reason why ties between Sg-Msia is in the sewers at times is primarily due to Tun's narrative. He knows that he has done an enormous damage to Msia's security by instigating ill will and suspicions with other countries - at times with Indonesia; at times with Australia, many times with Sg, etc. I do not think Sg will arm itself to the extent it has without Tun's "support"; they'd rather hoard more wealth. Well done Tun!
Now, there is much to do to restore confidence and build trust between the 2 countries.
As it is, both sides (members of FPDA) are more than likely (and minus a demagogue like Tun) to work together than against one another. In Msia's case, Sg is the only country it can rely on to bring about near immediate and massive amount of military support which will make any country think twice about attacking Msia. It is no secret that Msia welcomes a strong Sg as a bulwark against invaders in the region - the question an invader will ask is - Will attacking Peninsula Msia trigger a response from Sg?
Too bad FPDA doesnt cover East Malaysia.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 31 2022, 02:30 PM
Likely replace by g-v class aircraft. System will be compatible with usn.
If it is IAI systems, they have tied up with Bombardier with their Global 6500 (then) (now there is the larger and latest 7500).
There seems to be a new possibility in the Falcon 10X too as the Franco-German MAWs is dead - timeline for the Falcon 10x deployment is about right too:
QUOTE
The Falcon 10X, of which the size is ultimately equivalent to that of the ATL2 has a large cabin over 16 meters long, 2,8 meters wide and 2 meters high. It is sufficiently large enough to imagine the integration of a weapon bay. Navy pilots, who have long preferred turboprops for maritime patrol, requiring them to change altitude regularly and to be able to fly very close to the sea (ATL2s can descend up to 100 feet only), gradually learned, with the Falcon 50, to convert to jet engines
12 October 2022 More than 260 military personnel from Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and the United Kingdom have deployed to Singapore for the latest iteration of Exercise Suman Protector.
30 Defence personnel will attend the nine-day Command Post Exercise (CPX), which builds on decades of cooperation under the Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA) and supports common security goals.
Australia’s Vice Chief of the Defence Force Vice Admiral David Johnston, AC, RAN, attended the exercise opening ceremony in Singapore and used the opportunity to emphasise the important contribution the FPDA makes to the region.
“The FPDA is an anchor for regional security and stability,†Vice Admiral Johnston said.
“It strengthens interoperability between our militaries and provides a recognised and well-rehearsed platform for partner nation cooperation, with a focus on high-end conventional warfighting.â€
Vice Admiral Johnston said the ADF’s participation in Suman Protector continued Australia’s five decade-long commitment to the FPDA.
“The Suman series of command post exercises builds on Defence’s other contributions to the FPDA, including the Bersama series of field exercises, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief planning, and our other broader commitments including Rifle Company Butterworth,†he said.
Speculation remains as to the status of the supposed 5th submarine. It has also been speculated that the 5th submarine refers to RSS Invincible itself i.e. export clearance. Interestingly, the Sg government has not clarified or deny this supposed acquisition. Note that the Sg government clarified that it did not buy the 2A7 version of the Leopard 2 tank when there were reports Sg bought it.
It is reported that the Type 218SG submarines will be able to carry a larger weapons payload consisting of torpedoes and cruise missiles (likely the locally produced Blue Spear land attack and anti-ship missile).
QUOTE
The customised design is expected to be influenced by the export Type 214 submarine or Type 216 submarine. Features will include AIP and a combat system designed by both Atlas Elektronik and ST Electronics. The Invincible class also features an “X†rudder “which offers enhanced manoeuvrability in confined littoral waters, as opposed to the Type 214’s cruciform rudder arrangement.†The X rudder is used on the Type 212 submarine and its larger and newer derivative, the Dolphin 2-class submarine built for the Israeli Navy which is almost identical in size to the Invincible-class submarine (Israel and Singapore have extensive military ties and frequently procure the same weapon systems). They are believed to have Horizontal Multi-Purpose Airlock, which can be used to launch either torpedoes, divers, or special forces assault teams, and also have the capability to launch cruise-missiles while submerged[13] with an option for Vertical Multi-Purpose Airlock, for launching missile vertically, like the Tomahawk or Naval Strike Missile.
This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 31 2022, 05:28 PM
being in KL every Merdeka I get to see Su and Hornet last time every August they fly practically outside my school window even
QUOTE(Mai189 @ Oct 30 2022, 05:18 PM)
A key consideration is that Sg wants control over the systems for her own modifications or mix and match systems. That is likely why Sg has not selected the P8 yet. Remember, it is not the platform but systems which matter more. Also, weapons do not need to be carried by the MPA per se but other shooters in a battle network e.g. a USV with torpedoes or F35 or F15SG carrying a QuickSink JDAM.
nah more likely looking for budget option because P-8 is the gold-plated option of them all
QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 30 2022, 05:27 PM)
Basically SG could not continue to relies on the US solely anymore. SG enter into an agreement with the US as a deterrence to it two nearest neighbour. But as geopolitics conditions change and the 2 bigger neighbors is more crucial to US interest and the fact that 2/3 of SG is ethnically Chinese which could put them at a very difficult situation.
nah SG-US ties are strengthening even more actually saying there's an ethnic connection is like saying US and Africa abang adik because ramai blacks in US lmao total retard link
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Nov 2 2022, 05:24 PM)
unfortunately I'm not there
being in KL every Merdeka I get to see Su and Hornet last time every August they fly practically outside my school window even nah more likely looking for budget option because P-8 is the gold-plated option of them all nah SG-US ties are strengthening even more actually saying there's an ethnic connection is like saying US and Africa abang adik because ramai blacks in US lmao total retard link
if the OZ have a sortie in Kuantan Base I'll try to get or asked someone to get 1 sexy picture of amy for you
if the OZ have a sortie in Kuantan Base I'll try to get or asked someone to get 1 sexy picture of amy for you
appreciated, but don't do it just for me babe I'm not that young to go chasing hot curvy babes that break the sound barrier any more (maybe about twenty-five years ago )
Joined: Jun 2007
From: 3°50'**.**"N - 103°16'**.**"E
QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Nov 2 2022, 08:22 PM)
appreciated, but don't do it just for me babe I'm not that young to go chasing hot curvy babes that break the sound barrier any more (maybe about twenty-five years ago )
KHAN and HÄ°SAR Agreement in Indonesia from Roketsan
2 November 2022
Roketsan signed a contract for KHAN Land-to-Land Ballistic Missile System and HÄ°SAR Air Defense Missile System to Indonesia during the Indo Defense Fair
Indo Defense 2022 Defense Industry Fair, held in Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia, opened its doors today. Being the foreign country that participated in the fair with the highest number of companies, Turkey signed important agreements with Indonesian authorities.
In this context, contracts were signed for the KHAN Land-to-Land Ballistic Missile System and the HÄ°SAR Air Defense Missile System developed by Roketsan.
In Msia's case, Sg is the only country it can rely on to bring about near immediate and massive amount of military support which will make any country think twice about attacking Msia. It is no secret that Msia welcomes a strong Sg as a bulwark against invaders in the region - the question an invader will ask is - Will attacking Peninsula Msia trigger a response from Sg?
Sinkie will die for Malaysia? Assume Sinkie bodoh? I'm not even sure Malaysians will die for Malaysia.
No more leverage over Sinkie. Cut water = already enuf desalination, newater. Cut chicken, not even a cluck of complain. Cut people = no impact over entire covid period, only Johor suffer from tourism drop.
Army used to be known to be very good to operate in jungle. But today, jungle getting less and less (forest area <44% of peninsular).
I think better not to irritate Sinkie anymore. One day they decide to sink Mahresia, what can Mahresia do? I think many will be happy to get paid in Sing dollar. Then no need to cross border every day.
The first export of the national missile Khan will be made to Indonesia
ROKETSAN will make the first export of the Long-Range Artillery Missile Khan to Indonesia.
Goksel Yildirim | 03.11.2022
Photograph: Göksel Yıldırım/AA
Jakarta Raya
ROKETSAN, the leading missile and rocket systems manufacturer of the Turkish defense industry, attended the Indo Defense Expo & Forum 2022 held in Jakarta, Indonesia and signed important agreements.
ROKETSAN Deputy General Manager Murat KurtuluÅŸ told Anadolu Agency (AA) that the Southeast Asian market is very important for the company and that they have been working on the fair for many years.
Emphasizing that Southeast Asia will continue to be important in the coming years, considering its geopolitical effects along with its developing economy and population, KurtuluÅŸ said that they participated in this year's fair with their past experiences.
Noting that ROKETSAN has various products in many layers including land, air and sea, KurtuluÅŸ stated that they signed 2 agreements with the coordination of the Presidency of Defense Industries, thanks to the trust and trust shown by the Indonesian Ministry of Defense to Turkey and the Turkish defense industry.
Murat Kurtulus said:
"With the contracts we signed, we will be putting our first products into the service of the Indonesian Ministry of Defense in the near future. There are two separate issues. The first is Khan, the Land-to-Land Long-Range Artillery System. This system is an important weapon system that is effective at a range of up to 280 kilometers and with high precision in the depths of the battlefield. We will be giving it to the Indonesian army for the first time.
The second issue is about layered air defense. The requirements of the Indonesian Ministry of Defense were different in this regard. We developed a new model with our international business partners regarding these. A technical and financial model was created. Here we introduced our first products of the layered air defense system in the middle and long-range as 2 separate systems. We will also have discussions on close air defense systems in the coming periods."
Indo Defence 2022: Baykar in talks with Indonesian government on Bayraktar TB2, Akinci UAVs
by Ridzwan Rahmat
Turkish defence company Baykar is in talks with the Indonesian government to discuss the Bayraktar TB2 and Akinci lines of strike-capable unmanned aerial systems.
A source who spoke to Janes at Indo Defence 2022, being held in Jakarta, from 2 to 5 November, confirmed that meetings are taking place with various personnel to discuss the systems' capabilities but is not able to give further information on these citing confidentiality issues.
Models of both the TB2 and Akinci unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are on display at the stand of Baykar, which is taking part in the Indo Defence 2022 exhibition.
The reason why ties between Sg-Msia is in the sewers at times is primarily due to Tun's narrative. He knows that he has done an enormous damage to Msia's security by instigating ill will and suspicions with other countries - at times with Indonesia; at times with Australia, many times with Sg, etc. I do not think Sg will arm itself to the extent it has without Tun's "support"; they'd rather hoard more wealth. Well done Tun!
Now, there is much to do to restore confidence and build trust between the 2 countries.
As it is, both sides (members of FPDA) are more than likely (and minus a demagogue like Tun) to work together than against one another. In Msia's case, Sg is the only country it can rely on to bring about near immediate and massive amount of military support which will make any country think twice about attacking Msia. It is no secret that Msia welcomes a strong Sg as a bulwark against invaders in the region - the question an invader will ask is - Will attacking Peninsula Msia trigger a response from Sg?
Too bad FPDA doesnt cover East Malaysia.
A Dictator do what a dictator always do. What Mahathir did back then is no different to what erdagon currently is doing . And not like LKY didn't do some of the things that Mahathir is doing.
Anyway SG is NOT the only country MY can depend on. The country MY most depend on is the Aussie. SG is what you could called a force multipliers.
May 31 2022, 10:16 PM, updated 12 months ago
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Thailands Spike missiles are built in Singapore.
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