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 Military Thread V29

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jayraptor
post Sep 6 2022, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(issac99289928 @ Sep 6 2022, 05:29 PM)
tanks are easily found by drones  which can fly at high altitude.
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Only if the enemy doesn't have proper fighter jet or money to get 4th or 4.5 generation fighters up in the air armed with air to air missiles.

Armenia for example doesn't have working aircraft with radar and air to air missiles to detect and shoot down Azerbaijan drones using the hilly & mountainous terrain to hide from ground based radar. Hence, these Azerbaijan drones could take sweet time designate targets for guided & unguided artillery strikes or air strikes.

Russia over Ukraine, the Russians were too poor to carry out tactical SEAD operations to destroy most of Ukraine S300 long range SAM and medium range SAM. This means Russian aircraft have to fly low level whenever going into Ukraine. Russian fighters not able to fly high altitude won't be able to detect and destroy Ukraine drones from far. Ukraine drones often loiter low near Ukrainian held areas to keep safe
jayraptor
post Sep 6 2022, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(cunnilinguist @ Sep 6 2022, 12:23 PM)
So, is the FA-50 deal confirmed?
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No, wait after GE and economic recover first then choose proper aircraft. Not waste money on useless junk FA50 nor Tejas that will only end up being shot down by 4.5 generation fighters
jayraptor
post Sep 6 2022, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Sep 6 2022, 05:51 PM)
Performance of Merkava tanks:

https://defense-update.com/20070614_lebanon...ts%20penetrated
Performance of Challenger 2 tanks:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/...eeds-some-21634
Western tanks are not indestructible.But they sure as hell not easy to knock out.
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US Javelin top down attack missiles already being copied by EU made NLAW and soon Russia & China will come up with theirs after cache of fresh javelins & NLAW already fell into Russian forces hand. This means western MBT too are now vulnerable to top down attack missiles due to thinner armour on turret top.

MBT and IFV will come up with layer of top armour on automated turrets. No more crew in turret and need thicker top armour apart from active protection system that could destroy missiles coming from above. Time for new generation MBT.
jayraptor
post Sep 6 2022, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Sep 6 2022, 11:54 AM)
wait, youre telling me a heavy dense kinetic projectile travelling at supersonic speeds will not damage the external sensors and optics of the tanks when impacted?  doh.gif

youre severely underestimating how strong ATGMs are. like i said, they might not penetrate from 1st hit due to systems like APS, or how they negate the warheads but the impact alone is extremely strong and will damage the externals and internals of the tanks. already a huge compromise in the tank's capability if it gets hit. how sure are you the systems are running fine?
this is correct, this is why APS are extremely valuable + other protection systems to combine to maintain highest level of survivability.

youre still missing the point at the end, my point is tanks are now used differently compared to WW2 era due how dangerous ATGMs are. not the complete obsoletion of tanks! geez, countries wont stop using tanks because AT exists.
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Mai189 is right that a tank being hit won't necessarily destroy the CITV, visual thermal optical sights of tanks. It depends where the missile pr projectiles hit and how big is the warhead.

Man portable ATGM usually have smaller warheads meant to penetrate tanks on thinnest armour delivering warhead to kill crew or detonate ammo stowage in order to spark cookoff.

Attack helicopter or vehicle mounted ATGM such as AGM-114 or Vikhr would have bigger warheads to create more damage to tanks penetratimg thicker armour.

Proper air to ground missiles that weighs over 500lb such as AGM-65, Kh-29, Kh-38, Kh-25 would deliver heavier blow that would destroy tanks for real that are carried by aircraft.
jayraptor
post Sep 6 2022, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Sep 6 2022, 07:33 PM)
like i mention, i disagree. even with a small warhead the impact is still significant to introduce stress to the tank. especially the sensors and optics which arent as robust as the armor. they are built to take hits like what Mai189 said but they are still damaged in the process

think of it like in rock climbing equipment, there is a reason carabiners are changed often as during climbs you introduce microfractures and stress to the equipment. would you have more confidence using a brand new carabiner or one thats been through 20 climbs?
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Refer IDF Merkava Mk4 and Saudi M-1A2 that suffered ATGM from Hezbollah & Houthi rebels. Numbers of their optics were intact and because they have separate ammo storage from crew compartment, the ATGM injured or killed some of the crew and the tanks were driven back or towed back for repairs. Tanks optics are shielded comes with bulletproof glass to sustain certain amount of hits, robust enough to sustain staggering hits.

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