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 Bogleheads Local Chapter [Malaysia Edisi]

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TSalexkos
post Feb 8 2022, 04:23 PM, updated 4 months ago

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Hello all, I'd like to gauge interest among Lowyat forumers if there are any secret fans or disciples of Bogleheads in Bolehland smile.gif I did a quick search on forum and found some traces here and there, but there's never a unified thread. I think it's about time, what do you think? blush.gif

Bogleheads is a group of community named after John Bogle, the first index fund founder in 1970s which had since made tremendous impact to personal and institutional investing. Typically known as passive investing, popular instruments on index include Standard & Poor 500, Dow Jones 30, and our Bolehland has our very own indexed KLCI (Kuala Lumpur Composite Index) too.

Why index?
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What makes one a Bogleheads?
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Oh, does that mean if I hoot Bursa means I cannot become a Bogleheads?
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How do I join the Bogleheads community?
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So, got ppl support ka?

This post has been edited by alexkos: Feb 9 2022, 02:14 PM
SUSCoolStoryWriter
post Feb 8 2022, 06:34 PM

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I am not a hardcore fan but I am a supporter of the idea. It's simple, and easy to understand. I hope this movement will also help anyone especially the younger generation to start investing and achieve financial security.

If they are afraid of complicated financial instruments, just follow Bogle and invest in the index! Over time it will only go up.

This post has been edited by CoolStoryWriter: Feb 8 2022, 06:34 PM
cklimm
post Feb 8 2022, 08:09 PM

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The 25x, passive investing, reminds me of FIRE movement
jutamind
post Feb 8 2022, 09:02 PM

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I think we need more cost effective platforms to invest in ETFs to make index investing more prominent
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 8 2022, 09:50 PM

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Happy to support, but I'd imagine the thread will either be very quiet (due to most investor leaning towards short term performance chasing from what I can tell) or random discussion on what exactly is Bogleism biggrin.gif

For starters, I disagree with TS Alex's definition of Bogleheads, That section felt like it come from a Financially Independent, Retire Early thread.

The core idea behind Bogleheads IMO is leaning towards a few core investing principle:

1. Don't time the market. Invest as soon as you can.

2. Diversify with a low cost broad index fund.

3. Stay the course.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 8 2022, 10:00 PM
TSalexkos
post Feb 8 2022, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 8 2022, 09:50 PM)
Happy to support, but I'd imagine the thread will either be very quiet (due to most investor leaning towards short term performance chasing from what I can tell) or random discussion on what exactly is Bogleism biggrin.gif

For starters, I disagree with TS Alex's definition of Bogleheads, That section felt like it come from a Financially Independent, Retire Early thread.

The core idea behind Bogleheads IMO is leaning towards a few core investing principle:

1. Don't time the market. Invest as soon as you can.

2. Diversify with a low cost broad index fund.

3. Stay the course.
*
hehe, true Bogleheads spotted. TS fake version kena tangkap basah biggrin.gif

welcome on board! If we have enough regular members, we can do local chapter like they do in the US and other parts of the world too icon_rolleyes.gif

I hope someone told me about Bogleheads investing philosophy right after I started working.
Cubalagi
post Feb 9 2022, 11:15 AM

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I also support

I'm not a Bogle head as I am more active,, but I do use passive instruments (ETF) a lot. My portfolio has more % in ETFs compared to stocks or mutual funds.

Eddx
post Feb 9 2022, 11:20 AM

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Always wanted to buy into ETFs, but i am just not disciplined enough and chasing short term growth for capital gain then re-invest..but i am not good in timing

guess i should learn from here
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Feb 8 2022, 11:32 PM)
hehe, true Bogleheads spotted. TS fake version kena tangkap basah  biggrin.gif

welcome on board! If we have enough regular members, we can do local chapter like they do in the US and other parts of the world too  icon_rolleyes.gif

I hope someone told me about Bogleheads investing philosophy right after I started working.
*
Haha I got lucky and I got exposed to JL Collin's Simple Path to Wealth within half a year of me starting working, and quickly led myself to Bogleism after that. My biggest loss pre-Bogleism was 1k down the drain on Bursa, which I kept the money there to remind myself to never repeat this dumb mistake. Now just waiting for a true 30-50% crash to verify my conviction - I'd rather do that while young instead of 5 days into my retirement sad.gif

My personal thanks to TS Alex too - your thread on CSPX/Irish-domiciled SP500 has lead to lots of great information and helped me towards buying VWRA - and the linked PDF "If you can" was one of the first things I've read early. In a way you contributed much to my investment journey.

Now with this initiative, hopefully in a few months we can be recognized as a local chapter properly as TS suggested. For those not sure what it is: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%..._local_chapters


Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 9 2022, 11:15 AM)
I also support

I'm not a Bogle head as I am more active,, but I do use passive instruments (ETF) a lot. My portfolio has more % in ETFs compared to stocks or mutual funds.
*
Confession time, I am a mudblood boglehead too tongue.gif

My broad index fund is at the moment 75% of my portfolio, 17% factor tilted US&International small-cap-value ETF, and 8% play money to satisfy my occasional non-boglehead urges biggrin.gif

I want to think my core portfolio (92%) is almost bogle-halal though! Plus I have managed to stay the course, with no change to portfolio assets and their allocation so far.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 9 2022, 01:42 PM
DragonReine
post Feb 9 2022, 01:41 PM

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👍 My funds are very limited and parked in places I don't really want to pull away from, but I personally support this philosophy even though I can't directly apply it. If only I knew about this in my 20s rather than now well into middle age!
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Feb 9 2022, 01:41 PM)
👍 My funds are very limited and parked in places I don't really want to pull away from, but I personally support this philosophy even though I can't directly apply it. If only I knew about this in my 20s rather than now well into middle age!
*
It's never too late! thumbup.gif

There is a certain satisfaction of leaving money in places you don't want to pull away from, but focusing your deposit elsewhere where you have determined it's the right place you want your money to be in long term, and slowly seeing your "mistake" become smaller and smaller in your portfolio overtime.

Really reinforces your mentality to help with staying the course too!

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 9 2022, 01:47 PM
honsiong
post Feb 9 2022, 01:48 PM

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Not a pure boglehead, but have substantial holding of VXUS and some in VWRA too.

Since bogleheads mostly recommend the 3 fund portfolio, there really isn't much to talk about.

So instead, we find cheap brokers and cheapest way to move monies around can?
DragonReine
post Feb 9 2022, 02:01 PM

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I'm curious about cheap brokers too, and what's the preferred broker for y'all who do invest in Bogle suggested portfolio
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(honsiong @ Feb 9 2022, 01:48 PM)
Not a pure boglehead, but have substantial holding of VXUS and some in VWRA too.

Since bogleheads mostly recommend the 3 fund portfolio, there really isn't much to talk about.

So instead, we find cheap brokers and cheapest way to move monies around can?
*
Since we are mostly Malaysians we don't even get to talk about roth backdoors, tax efficient accounts and 401ks.... We really do only have portfolio allocation and cheap brokers to talk about.

Wanna argue about how much bonds to have without disclosing information about our age and investment horizon? Can easily inflate the pages count of the thread! tongue.gif
honsiong
post Feb 9 2022, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Feb 9 2022, 02:01 PM)
I'm curious about cheap brokers too, and what's the preferred broker for y'all who do invest in Bogle suggested portfolio
*
IBKR macam winning.

But I opened Futu Moomoo and CIMB Prosperus, too lazy to switch after that.

I like Futu a lot, very friendly to use.
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Feb 9 2022, 02:01 PM)
I'm curious about cheap brokers too, and what's the preferred broker for y'all who do invest in Bogle suggested portfolio
*
Interactive Brokers for me, about 2USD per trade. I make a deposit every month so thats 2USD gone minimum, but I'm ready to pay an extra lunch every month just to be more "correlated" to the market so to say tongue.gif

You can cut down on FX cost by either using Wise to do MYR->USD directly (use to be highly not recommended, but people have reported good things about doing it via Wise Multi Currency Account) - or do something sillier like... buy RM1000 of stock on margin via IBKR (paying 1.58% p.a. margin loan fees), but deposit RM1000 into Versa/Stashaway Simple (~2% p.a. returns), every time your margin ratio reach ~1.25 (never higher than that), withdraw your MMF fully and one shot remit to CIMB-SG -> free deposit into IBKR -> convert to USD at the best FX rate possible, 2USD fee.

0.42% p.a. of discount on FX and transaction cost!

Please don't actually do this, I have not evaluated the additional FX risk introduced to this investment flow and the maximum possible fallout just to save LITERALLY less than 2 USD every few months

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 9 2022, 02:12 PM
DragonReine
post Feb 9 2022, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 9 2022, 02:07 PM)
Interactive Brokers for me, about 2USD per trade. I make a deposit every month so thats 2USD gone minimum, but I'm ready to pay an extra lunch every month just to be more "correlated" to the market so to say  tongue.gif

You can cut down on FX cost by either using Wise to do MYR->USD directly (use to be highly not recommended, but people have reported good things about doing it via Wise Multi Currency Account) - or do something sillier like... buy RM1000 of stock on margin via IBKR (paying 1.58% p.a. margin loan fees), but deposit RM1000 into Versa/Stashaway Simple (~2% p.a. returns), every time your margin ratio reach ~1.25 (never higher than that), withdraw your MMF fully and one shot remit to CIMB-SG -> free deposit into IBKR -> convert to USD at the best FX rate possible, 2USD fee.

0.42% p.a. of discount on FX and transaction cost!

Please don't actually do this, I have not evaluated the additional FX risk introduced to this investment flow and the maximum possible fallout just to save LITERALLY less than 2 USD every few months
*
🤣🤣🙏 this one some galaxy brain thinking Haha but still useful to know! thank you!
Pewufod
post Feb 9 2022, 09:05 PM

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i am actually thinking of building a syfe port with

CSPX
QQQ
VWRA

any comments ?
tradingGo
post Feb 9 2022, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(Pewufod @ Feb 9 2022, 09:05 PM)
i am actually thinking of building a syfe port with

CSPX
QQQ
VWRA

any comments ?
*
CSPX and QQQ are mostly US, no?

and VWRA has less US but with the other 2, still US mostly.
Pewufod
post Feb 9 2022, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(tradingGo @ Feb 9 2022, 10:17 PM)
CSPX and QQQ are mostly US, no?

and VWRA has less US but with the other 2, still US mostly.
*
yes
i dont mind the extra US exposure
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 9 2022, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(Pewufod @ Feb 9 2022, 09:05 PM)
i am actually thinking of building a syfe port with

CSPX
QQQ
VWRA

any comments ?
*
Assuming equal weightage, I would recommend against it.

CSPX and QQQ overlaps too much. They overlap each other approximately 36% by market weight, and roughly 15% SPY is in QQQ and 77% of QQQ is also in SPY

CSPX then also overlaps VWRA by roughly 48% by market weight, ~5% with SPY, and 1% with QQQ.

You would be so insanely over-weighting some specific stocks unless its completely intentional and you know exactly what stock you are over weighting in, every month.

Perhaps you can share with us your investment philosophy for this portfolio to let us better understand it? Investment horizon, etc.

If you didn't own individual stock and make a portfolio of 1-30 stock, that means you wanted to diversify.

If you wanted to bet on the US, that the top 100 company will continue to grow, then QQQ is good enough, why SPY(CSPX)?

If you wanted to bet on the US, the top 500 company will continue to grow, you are more diversified, and their business being international in nature gives you pseudo-international exposure, then why QQQ?

If you are worried about US's growth, their ridiculous P/E ratio, and they may or may not receive a massive 20%+ pullback in near future, winners rotate to international stock for the next decade, and want to invest in 60US:40International ratio, and the next time it rotate again, it doesn't matter to you, because you hold all of them - then VWRA is perfect, why overweight US again with QQQ/SPY?

...et cetera.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 9 2022, 11:52 PM
Pewufod
post Feb 9 2022, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 9 2022, 11:44 PM)
Assuming equal weightage, I would recommend against it.

CSPX and QQQ overlaps too much. They overlap each other approximately 36% by market weight, and roughly 15% SPY is in QQQ and 77% of QQQ is also in SPY

CSPX then also overlaps VWRA by roughly 48% by market weight, ~5% with SPY, and 1% with QQQ.

You would be so insanely over-weighting some specific stocks unless its completely intentional and you know exactly what stock you are over weighting in, every month.

Perhaps you can share with us your investment philosophy for this portfolio to let us better understand it? Investment horizon, etc.

If you didn't own individual stock and make a portfolio of 1-30 stock, that means you wanted to diversify.

If you wanted to bet on the US, that the top 100 company will continue to grow, then QQQ is good enough, why SPY(CSPX)?

If you wanted to bet on the US, the top 500 company will continue to grow, you are more diversified, and their business being international in nature gives you pseudo-international exposure, then why QQQ?

If you are worried about US's growth, their ridiculous P/E ratio, and they may or may not receive a massive 20%+ pullback in near future, winners rotate to international stock for the next decade, and want to invest in 60US:40International ratio, and the next time it rotate again, it doesn't matter to you, because you hold all of them - then VWRA is perfect, why overweight US again with QQQ/SPY?

...et cetera.
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thank you for spending the time
was just bouncing ideas around
my initial intention was to get exposed to US stocks particularly in tech (qqq) and value stocks (cspx) then add a little bit of global flavour via (VWRA)

but after reading your analysis, it seems it would make more sense to me to just buy VWRA alone
Davidtcf
post Feb 10 2022, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(Pewufod @ Feb 9 2022, 11:59 PM)
thank you for spending the time
was just bouncing ideas around
my initial intention was to get exposed to US stocks particularly in tech (qqq) and value stocks (cspx) then add a little bit of global flavour via (VWRA)

but after reading your analysis, it seems it would make more sense to me to just buy VWRA alone
*
buy VUAA if you want lower cost for S&P 500. ETF managed by Vanguard and it is growing fast. Irish Domiciled and dividend reinvesting also.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 10 2022, 09:42 AM
iammyself
post Feb 11 2022, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(tradingGo @ Feb 9 2022, 10:17 PM)
and VWRA has less US but with the other 2, still US mostly.
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My thoughts exactly. Even though VWRA markets itself as "All World", it's pretty much an American-centric ETF...

Not saying that American companies don't perform but if you want a truly globally diversified portfolio, you might need to add some European and China-focused funds.

VWRA top holdings and geographic exposure:-
https://www.vanguardinvestments.dk/portal/i...quity/?overview
chiacp
post Feb 11 2022, 12:41 PM

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It's about time for Malaysian boglehead chapter. I have been transferring to ibkr via sunway money->cimb sg -> ibkr.
Recently some1 suggested wise multicurrency acct-> ibkr.
Which is better?
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 11 2022, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(chiacp @ Feb 11 2022, 12:41 PM)
It's about time for Malaysian boglehead chapter. I have been transferring to ibkr via sunway money->cimb sg -> ibkr.
Recently some1 suggested wise multicurrency acct-> ibkr.
Which is better?
*
They are very close in value with Sunway winning sometime on working hours, and going through CIMB SG leaves a better paper trail for audit purposes.

If you do Wise via ACH directly to USD however you pay less FX conversion fee when depositing smaller amount (converting SGD to USD has a flat 2USD fee for most amounts on IBKR)

It'll be up to your deposit size and preferences mostly.
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 11 2022, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(iammyself @ Feb 11 2022, 11:59 AM)
My thoughts exactly.  Even though VWRA markets itself as "All World", it's pretty much an American-centric ETF...

Not saying that American companies don't perform but if you want a truly globally diversified portfolio, you might need to add some European and China-focused funds.

VWRA top holdings and geographic exposure:-
https://www.vanguardinvestments.dk/portal/i...quity/?overview
*
VWRA do hold emerging markets and European markets... And they are holding it by weight/market cap as it should be. What you are referring to is overweighting certain country such as China, which given investors sentiment that US is overvalued or due for a correction in the near future, is not a bad idea to underweight US.

But lack of a good way to buy ex-US UCITS fund means that you are either stuck with having to buy multiple other ETF, or buying some VXUS and losing out a little on dividends to withholding tax.

Personally I'm happy with just having VWRA and skip the rebalance nightmare and cost. The performance will even out overtime given my horizon.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 11 2022, 12:57 PM
KingArthurVI
post Feb 11 2022, 07:22 PM

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New Boglehead reporting in. I started investing in 2020 right BEFORE COVID happened, so similar stories to a lot of others who went in ATH before things came crashing down. Earliest investments were mostly in dividend stocks (Maybank, TNB, some random telcos...) then beginning of 2021 I dabbled in StashAway and FSMOne.

I realized investing is stressful because I needed to keep track of market movements to know when to "buy the dip" (time the market). Following the SA forum I noticed some members (shoutout Hoshiyuu) are going DIY, and at first I thought that's bollocks because there's no way that's less stressful than letting others manage it for you, RIGHT?

Then I read Bogle's "Little Book of Common Sense Investing" and it completely blew my mind. Here's an apt summary: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bogleheads/comment...of_commonsense/

I realized unit trust vendors (FSMOne, bank agents, etc.) are profiting off my hard-earned money. You may think 1% is very low "if you're earning money anyway", well if you read that book you'll see the end net return is decreased by 30-40% over the years by just that 1% difference.

So now I'm a "guai kia" (good boy) and buying and holding 100% VWRA (shoutout Hoshiyuu and honsiong for the idea and explanations) on LSE to track the FTSE All-World Index. Data suggests the next decade's returns to trail behind the past 10-20 years, but I think that's OK for me since I'm holding for the long term.
KingArthurVI
post Feb 11 2022, 07:25 PM

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One thing I'm curious is how much fellow Bogleheads are allocating on bonds? I'm almost 30 y/o so still have quite a ways to go. There are some people on r/Bogleheads suggesting "age minus 25 in bonds" rather than Bogle's "age in bonds" due to equities' tendencies to outperform bonds over the long term, and to only lean into bonds when you're closer to 40+

For now I'm not holding any bond ETFs, but I have the Amanahraya Syariah Trust Fund on FSMOne (Islamic sukuk fund) that I'm debating if I should keep or sell eventually in favor of something like VAGU
jutamind
post Feb 11 2022, 08:29 PM

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Hoshiyuu do you DCA monthly for VWRA using market order or ad hoc purchase using limit order?

QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 12:57 PM)
VWRA do hold emerging markets and European markets... And they are holding it by weight/market cap as it should be. What you are referring to is overweighting certain country such as China, which given investors sentiment that US is overvalued or due for a correction in the near future, is not a bad idea to underweight US.

But lack of a good way to buy ex-US UCITS fund means that you are either stuck with having to buy multiple other ETF, or buying some VXUS and losing out a little on dividends to withholding tax.

Personally I'm happy with just having VWRA and skip the rebalance nightmare and cost. The performance will even out overtime given my horizon.
*
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 11 2022, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 07:25 PM)
One thing I'm curious is how much fellow Bogleheads are allocating on bonds? I'm almost 30 y/o so still have quite a ways to go. There are some people on r/Bogleheads suggesting "age minus 25 in bonds" rather than Bogle's "age in bonds" due to equities' tendencies to outperform bonds over the long term, and to only lean into bonds when you're closer to 40+

For now I'm not holding any bond ETFs, but I have the Amanahraya Syariah Trust Fund on FSMOne (Islamic sukuk fund) that I'm debating if I should keep or sell eventually in favor of something like VAGU
*
Well said on the matters of fees!

My original two fund portfolio is exactly VWRA+VAGU at a 90:10 ratio, which by the time I retire I should able to survive out of selling bonds alone for a good while, and anywhere between 10% to 40% bond have fair and varying optimal portfolio success rate, but I opted to not buy any bonds for now and likely stay 100% equities forever.

My reasons are:
1. I don't see a reason to buy bonds when I have at least 20 year on my horizon, I need accumulate as hard as I can right now to get compounding working.

2. I seek to keep a healthy amount of emergency fund in MMFs or other low risk assets, and minimizes my monthly commitment that I can survive at least 1-2 year of market downturn and unemployment without liquidating any equities.

3. Bonds in general isn't in a great place right now, it's likely not going to give much if any return at all for foreseeable future and it's really just a weak store of value option in my opinion

4. We have access to EPF/SSPN as amazing pseudo-bond options. This is the most important thing to us Malaysian Bogleheads IMO compared to US recommendations. We have forced saving at a decent rate in EPF, and SSPN Prime gives good steady return with very good liquidity and overall ease of access, with both platform easily providing 4%+ safe returns*. EPF alone is a great analogue to function as 20-50%++ bonds to your DIY equities portfolio.

*While the cynic in me has little confidence in the government, both of this vehicles affect enough people that I'm sure even the government will think twice before messing with them. If EPF or SSPN goes kaput, we have bigger issues.

I would love to get comments, thoughts and counter point to reasons #4.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 11 2022, 08:37 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 11 2022, 08:47 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Feb 11 2022, 08:29 PM)
Hoshiyuu do you DCA monthly for VWRA using market order or ad hoc purchase using limit order?
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Market order is generally considered a bad practice even if it really doesn't matter at my level buying power. Just to build good habit, I place a limit order at the lowest ask or something and let it fill instantly.

I buy monthly but I currently do not deposit and convert currency monthly.

If you choose to DCA monthly, please take care of not letting transaction cost eat into your investment too much. I aim to keep it under 1% but 0.6% if the best I can do now until I increase my income further or changing my deposit interval to once per 2 months.
Cubalagi
post Feb 11 2022, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 08:35 PM)


4. We have access to EPF/SSPN as amazing pseudo-bond options. This is the most important thing to us Malaysian Boglehead.

I would love to get comments, thoughts and counter point to reasons #4.
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Hi,

What you are missing out is the capital gain you get from bond funds (in particular Treasuries). And this capital gains happen when the economy starts to slow down or is in a recession, which is the time equities do badly. This gain is on top of the interest you receive.

Eg compare the performance of SPx and TLT between early 2019 to end March 2020. In 2019, global economy started to slow down and then got into a recession (by covid).


KingArthurVI
post Feb 11 2022, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 08:35 PM)
Well said on the matters of fees!

My original two fund portfolio is exactly VWRA+VAGU at a 90:10 ratio, which by the time I retire I should able to survive out of selling bonds alone for a good while, and anywhere between 10% to 40% bond have fair and varying optimal portfolio success rate, but I opted to not buy any bonds for now and likely stay 100% equities forever.

My reasons are:
1. I don't see a reason to buy bonds when I have at least 20 year on my horizon, I need accumulate as hard as I can right now to get compounding working.

2. I seek to keep a healthy amount of emergency fund in MMFs or other low risk assets, and minimizes my monthly commitment that I can survive at least 1-2 year of market downturn and unemployment without liquidating any equities.

3. Bonds in general isn't in a great place right now, it's likely not going to give much if any return at all for foreseeable future and it's really just a weak store of value option in my opinion

4. We have access to EPF/SSPN as amazing pseudo-bond options. This is the most important thing to us Malaysian Bogleheads IMO compared to US recommendations. We have forced saving at a decent rate in EPF, and SSPN Prime gives good steady return with very good liquidity and overall ease of access, with both platform easily providing 4%+ safe returns*. EPF alone is a great analogue to function as 20-50%++ bonds to your DIY equities portfolio.

*While the cynic in me has little confidence in the government, both of this vehicles affect enough people that I'm sure even the government will think twice before messing with them. If EPF or SSPN goes kaput, we have bigger issues.

I would love to get comments, thoughts and counter point to reasons #4.
*
My main concern with EPF is that it's denominated in MYR ultimately, be it deposit/withdrawal. I honestly don't have much faith in MYR over the next 20+ years.

Another factor for me personally is that I'm a freelancer and thus self-employed. I only contribute the yearly 4000 to get tax relief since there's no matching employer scheme sad.gif

So with all that said, maybe a "safe" bond-like facility may actually be FD? Bond yields are like what 1.x - 3% at the most? If our FD can go back up to the pre-2020 3 or 4%, it'll beat inflation and give a small return as a value preservation tool, right?
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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 11 2022, 09:15 PM)
Hi,

What you are missing out is the capital gain you get from bond funds (in particular Treasuries). And this capital gains happen when the economy starts to slow down or is in a recession, which is the time equities do badly. This gain is on top of the interest you receive.

Eg compare the performance of SPx and TLT  between early 2019 to end March 2020. In 2019, global economy started to slow down and then got into a recession (by covid).
*
I'm not sure if the performance listed at fund pages include both coupons and capital gains, but if it does give me around 3% or above overall there's an argument to be made to not put money into SSPN but bonds instead, given that MYR is circling the drain and threatening a dive 24/7 with such weak confidence in Malaysia market and it's government...

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 11 2022, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 09:49 PM)
My main concern with EPF is that it's denominated in MYR ultimately, be it deposit/withdrawal. I honestly don't have much faith in MYR over the next 20+ years.

Another factor for me personally is that I'm a freelancer and thus self-employed. I only contribute the yearly 4000 to get tax relief since there's no matching employer scheme sad.gif

So with all that said, maybe a "safe" bond-like facility may actually be FD? Bond yields are like what 1.x - 3% at the most? If our FD can go back up to the pre-2020 3 or 4%, it'll beat inflation and give a small return as a value preservation tool, right?
*
Definitely, I have zero confidence in MYR too, I don't keep any MYR aside from basic spending and emergency funds - and even then I'm seriously considering making my emergency fund SGD instead of MYR.

In my case my EPF contribution is mandatory, so whether I like it or not I'll already have this stable asset that I can eat from when I retire. For your case I definitely won't recommend putting more than the tax relief threshold. You should seek bonds then if you want to have some ballast asset in your portfolio, tuning the amount to your risk appetite and investment horizon.

I strongly dislike FD because of the lock in and given FD absolute terrible rate right now that has no end, a high yield saving account, MMFs (specifically Versa or SA simple that has next to no fee and sale charges) sounds like a better idea.

Or just buy some VAGU, it's cheap right now 😆
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 10:07 PM)
I'm not sure if the performance listed at fund pages include both coupons and capital gains, but if it does give me around 3% or above overall there's an argument to be made to not put money into SSPN but bonds instead, given that MYR is circling the drain and threatening a dive 24/7 with such weak confidence in Malaysia market and it's government...
*
Total return is just the combination of capital gains n interest.

But during period I mentioned, (Jan 2019-April 2020), TLT which is a US Bond ETF provided about 35% capital gains. The interest /dividends is probably about 3% only.

During the same period , SPx was down about -10%. It would be a great time to rebalance, n reallocate into SPx.

P/S I'm not a Boglehead as Im more active going in and out.

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 07:25 PM)
One thing I'm curious is how much fellow Bogleheads are allocating on bonds? I'm almost 30 y/o so still have quite a ways to go. There are some people on r/Bogleheads suggesting "age minus 25 in bonds" rather than Bogle's "age in bonds" due to equities' tendencies to outperform bonds over the long term, and to only lean into bonds when you're closer to 40+

For now I'm not holding any bond ETFs, but I have the Amanahraya Syariah Trust Fund on FSMOne (Islamic sukuk fund) that I'm debating if I should keep or sell eventually in favor of something like VAGU
*
Bonds are for old age people to buy.. they grow slow and steady.
I prefer dividend investing if I’m an old 60-70 yr old dude one day.. pick a bunch of safe dividend stocks in SG and MY and keep DCA into them will do. Or if lazy just put some money into FD or EPF.

When younger better to go for growth stocks or ETFs. We still have time on our side. VWRA is a good choice. I personally prefer CSPX/VUAA more (S&P 500). Some would invest in SWRD and EIMI as this would cover both developed and developing markets.
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Speaking of dividends, for those considering dividend investing, these video provide good advice when considering such a path, as opposed to simply having a simple 2/3-fund portfolio using broad based index with less of a focus on dividends.

Ben Felix - The Irrelevance of Dividends

The Plain Bagel - Why Investors Love Dividends (And Why They Can Be Dangerous)

A more local flavor for those that prefer it.
Kelvin Learns Investing - The Problem With Dividends | Dividends Don't Matter


This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 11 2022, 10:53 PM
KingArthurVI
post Feb 11 2022, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 10:18 PM)
Definitely, I have zero confidence in MYR too, I don't keep any MYR aside from basic spending and emergency funds - and even then I'm seriously considering making my emergency fund SGD instead of MYR.

In my case my EPF contribution is mandatory, so whether I like it or not I'll already have this stable asset that I can eat from when I retire. For your case I definitely won't recommend putting more than the tax relief threshold. You should seek bonds then if you want to have some ballast asset in your portfolio, tuning the amount to your risk appetite and investment horizon.

I strongly dislike FD because of the lock in and given FD absolute terrible rate right now that has no end, a high yield saving account, MMFs (specifically Versa or SA simple that has next to no fee and sale charges) sounds like a better idea.

Or just buy some VAGU, it's cheap right now 😆
*
Haha was considering VAGU but a lot of people seem to think buying bonds before 40 is a mistake since you want to let equities do most of the heavy lifting when you're still able to take risks. Currently considering 100% VWRA on my IBKR as I slowly transition my other investments (FSMOne, SA, Bursa stocks etc...) over as they hopefully turn green. Unfortunately entered SA @ ATH so it'll be quite a long wait mega_shok.gif
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 11:53 PM)
Haha was considering VAGU but a lot of people seem to think buying bonds before 40 is a mistake since you want to let equities do most of the heavy lifting when you're still able to take risks. Currently considering 100% VWRA on my IBKR as I slowly transition my other investments (FSMOne, SA, Bursa stocks etc...) over as they hopefully turn green. Unfortunately entered SA @ ATH so it'll be quite a long wait mega_shok.gif
*
If u go 100%, you must be mentally prepared to experience volatility, including something like a 30% or more fall in your portfolio. Most people can't handle that.


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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 11:53 PM)
... a lot of people seem to think buying bonds before 40 is a mistake...
*
A lot of people also greatly overestimate their risk tolerance and haven't experienced a real bear market when they already have an significant amount invested. To stay the course over 3+ years of constant bear, unemployment stress, and everyone telling you THIS time it's different...
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post Feb 12 2022, 10:48 AM

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What bond to buy that are good? So far I see the bond ETFs not doing so well also. Might as well just continue DCA in good stocks or ETFs.
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post Feb 12 2022, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 12 2022, 09:27 AM)
If u go 100%, you must be mentally prepared to experience volatility, including something like a 30% or more fall in your portfolio. Most people can't handle that.
*
Me included. I’m waiting for a real crash to test my resolve. I tested StashAway’s thematic portfolio and also a UT with Ark Innovation’s funds and decided they're not for me when ARKK dropped 40-50% from my highest entry price. I’m still waiting to see my risk appetite when it comes to purely index fund volatility, although common sense seems to be that the swing should be smaller because of the total world nature of VWRA, but like I mentioned, we’ll see smile.gif

QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 12 2022, 10:48 AM)
What bond to buy that are good? So far I see the bond ETFs not doing so well also. Might as well just continue DCA in good stocks or ETFs.
*
I think you’re in the wrong thread if you’re asking which bonds are good. I used to want to know the same thing you’re asking, then I decided I didn’t want to spend that time and mental energy… The Boglehead approach asks you to buy an index that tracks the total bond market, something like VAGU. The bond’s role isn’t to chase performance but it’s to cushion your portfolio during tough times.
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 12:47 PM)
Me included. I’m waiting for a real crash to test my resolve. I tested StashAway’s thematic portfolio and also a UT with Ark Innovation’s funds and decided they're not for me when ARKK dropped 40-50% from my highest entry price. I’m still waiting to see my risk appetite when it comes to purely index fund volatility, although common sense seems to be that the swing should be smaller because of the total world nature of VWRA, but like I mentioned, we’ll see smile.gif
*
The swing could be smaller, but it still dropped about 30% in March 2020. VWRA doesn't have a long enough track record to extend to the GFC. But during the GFC, a similar strategy ETF like ACWI dropped about 50%.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Feb 12 2022, 01:04 PM
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post Feb 12 2022, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 11 2022, 11:53 PM)
...a lot of people seem to think buying bonds before 40 is a mistake...
*
Mathematically and historically, obviously the younger you are it's more ideal to have more equities for maximum possibility of growth over the very long term.

Emotionally however, not everyone can handle the volatility of a high equities portfolio, as evidenced in the number of people who get sad at single digit dips in some platforms. Some people even more than -5% dip start to panic le and sell to realise loss.

So need to adjust your strategy to your risk appetite.
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post Feb 12 2022, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Feb 12 2022, 01:31 PM)
Mathematically and historically, obviously the younger you are it's more ideal to have more equities for maximum possibility of growth over the very long term.

Emotionally however, not everyone can handle the volatility of a high equities portfolio, as evidenced in the number of people who get sad at single digit dips in some platforms. Some people even more than -5% dip start to panic le and sell to realise loss.

So need to adjust your strategy to your risk appetite.
*
Yeah the emotions aspect is of course the age-old big question, of one’s risk tolerance. I don’t claim to fully know my limits either. One other way may be to increase bond exposure as I start to feel more uncertain? I’m honestly not sure if that’s counterproductive behavior or not yet.
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post Feb 12 2022, 06:18 PM

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Nice....EPF SSPN as bond like for Malaysian.....this thread is getting interesting smile.gif

For those with 100/0 asset allocation or something like that, it would be good to consider extreme scenario where one is unemployed or under employed for a prolonged period due to macroeconomic shocks like 1929 great depression.

This post has been edited by alexkos: Feb 12 2022, 06:20 PM
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post Feb 12 2022, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 04:12 PM)
Yeah the emotions aspect is of course the age-old big question, of one’s risk tolerance. I don’t claim to fully know my limits either. One other way may be to increase bond exposure as I start to feel more uncertain? I’m honestly not sure if that’s counterproductive behavior or not yet.
*
Bogleheads will call that market timing, which is against their principles.

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post Feb 12 2022, 10:52 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 12 2022, 08:36 PM)
Bogleheads will call that market timing, which is against their principles.
*
How is that market timing? More like risk balancing based on appetite changes?
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 10:52 PM)
How is that market timing? More like risk balancing based on appetite changes?
*
And what makes your risk appetite change?
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post Feb 12 2022, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 12 2022, 10:54 PM)
And what makes your risk appetite change?
*
When growing older I suppose. That’s my main concern is after 40, how much to allocate in bonds. But seems like Malaysia has quite a few different options aside from bonds
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 10:52 PM)
How is that market timing? More like risk balancing based on appetite changes?
*
QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 04:12 PM)
[...]increase bond exposure as I start to feel more uncertain[...]
*
Making decision on feeling and tinkering with your portfolio too often is detrimental more often than not.

Portfolio success rate are often much more fragile on investor behavior than whether it makes another 0.5% more than the other fund.

I wouldn't go to the extreme length of one of Bogle's anecdotes, where he recommended someone to just deposit and never peek until 30 years later.

But you should have a an investment policy statement, documenting what you hold, why you hold them (this is very important when you are tempted to switch to other asset), and under what conditions you are allowed to change them (e.g. net worth, age). Having it and having the discipline to follow through will prevent your "appetite changes" after a major loss affecting your portfolio.

If you allow yourself to switch assets and allocation at will, you are more likely to cause damage and decrease your portfolio success rate.

And, you need to review the conditions you've set for yourself too. "I'll increase my bond allocation when market feels uncertain" is a rather poor reason in my opinion. Your asset allocation should be based on something more fundamental, like "If another 2008 happen, I do not believe I can endure an extended 30% drawdown. I can stomach 15% drawdown at best and according to portfolio backtester, that meant (sample number) having 40% in bonds".

Then perhaps you would have a clause that "I will only allow once allocation change per year when the decision is well reviewed and at least 3 months has passed since the decision is made and it remains logically sound".

Finally, you execute the change while rebalancing your portfolio on such dates to save on fees and hit multiple bird with one stone.

At least, that's what I do myself and I am interested to receive opinions on that thought process.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 12 2022, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 10:57 PM)
When growing older I suppose. That’s my main concern is after 40, how much to allocate in bonds. But seems like Malaysia has quite a few different options aside from bonds
*
Ok. Changing portfolio allocation as you age is not market timing.

I mentioned earlier that those alternative bond options lack the capital gain feature of bond funds. This s what you need to reduce portfolio volatility.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Feb 12 2022, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 12 2022, 11:02 PM)
Making decision on feeling and tinkering with your portfolio too often is detrimental more often than not.

Portfolio success rate are often much more fragile on investor behavior than whether it makes another 0.5% more than the other fund.

I wouldn't go to the extreme length of one of Bogle's anecdotes, where he recommended someone to just deposit and never peek until 30 years later.

But you should have a an investment policy statement, documenting what you hold, why you hold them (this is very important when you are tempted to switch to other asset), and under what conditions you are allowed to change them (e.g. net worth, age). Having it and having the discipline to follow through will prevent your "appetite changes" after a major loss affecting your portfolio.

If you allow yourself to switch assets and allocation at will, you are more likely to cause damage and decrease your portfolio success rate.

And, you need to review the conditions you've set for yourself too. "I'll increase my bond allocation when market feels uncertain" is a rather poor reason in my opinion. Your asset allocation should be based on something more fundamental, like "If another 2008 happen, I do not believe I can endure an extended 30% drawdown. I can stomach 15% drawdown at best and according to portfolio backtester, that meant (sample number) having 40% in bonds".

Then perhaps you would have a clause that "I will only allow once allocation change per year when the decision is well reviewed and at least 3 months has passed since the decision is made and it remains logically sound".

Finally, you execute the change while rebalancing your portfolio on such dates to save on fees and hit multiple bird with one stone.

At least, that's what I do myself and I am interested to receive opinions on that thought process.
*
Oh ok I think there’s some misunderstanding. If you read back my previous message that mentioned the word “uncertain’ I meant my asset allocation, not market conditions tongue.gif not trying to time the market or ride some wave, but merely that if say one day I get to 40 and I no longer feel like I could stomach 100% equity, I was wondering if that’s the time when I should increase my bond allocation.

The rest of your post is incredibly well said, and is what I’ll strive to do too, although not as formal as having a statement, but maybe that’ll help in the long run too rclxs0.gif
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 11:26 PM)
Oh ok I think there’s some misunderstanding. If you read back my previous message that mentioned the word “uncertain’ I meant my asset allocation, not market conditions tongue.gif not trying to time the market or ride some wave, but merely that if say one day I get to 40 and I no longer feel like I could stomach 100% equity, I was wondering if that’s the time when I should increase my bond allocation.

The rest of your post is incredibly well said, and is what I’ll strive to do too, although not as formal as having a statement, but maybe that’ll help in the long run too rclxs0.gif
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Yeap I just noticed when I saw your reply to Cubalagi, my bad!
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post Feb 13 2022, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 12 2022, 11:02 PM)
Making decision on feeling and tinkering with your portfolio too often is detrimental more often than not.

Portfolio success rate are often much more fragile on investor behavior than whether it makes another 0.5% more than the other fund.

I wouldn't go to the extreme length of one of Bogle's anecdotes, where he recommended someone to just deposit and never peek until 30 years later.

But you should have a an investment policy statement, documenting what you hold, why you hold them (this is very important when you are tempted to switch to other asset), and under what conditions you are allowed to change them (e.g. net worth, age). Having it and having the discipline to follow through will prevent your "appetite changes" after a major loss affecting your portfolio.

If you allow yourself to switch assets and allocation at will, you are more likely to cause damage and decrease your portfolio success rate.

And, you need to review the conditions you've set for yourself too. "I'll increase my bond allocation when market feels uncertain" is a rather poor reason in my opinion. Your asset allocation should be based on something more fundamental, like "If another 2008 happen, I do not believe I can endure an extended 30% drawdown. I can stomach 15% drawdown at best and according to portfolio backtester, that meant (sample number) having 40% in bonds".

Then perhaps you would have a clause that "I will only allow once allocation change per year when the decision is well reviewed and at least 3 months has passed since the decision is made and it remains logically sound".

Finally, you execute the change while rebalancing your portfolio on such dates to save on fees and hit multiple bird with one stone.

At least, that's what I do myself and I am interested to receive opinions on that thought process.
*
So means buying bonds is to reduce chance of drawdown for overall portfolio? Since I notice they don’t fluctuate much. While earning steady dividends at the same time?

I notice bond related still get taxed 30% on dividends if buy US domiciled. Need to hunt for Irish domiciled to reduce tax down to 15%

I’m in late 30s but feel I can stomach the risk. I set aside 2-3 months of my savings in case if anything happens. One day if I retired will definitely look into bonds.


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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 13 2022, 01:14 AM)
So means buying bonds is to reduce chance of drawdown for overall portfolio? Since I notice they don’t fluctuate much. While earning steady dividends at the same time?

I notice bond related still get taxed 30% on dividends if buy US domiciled. Need to hunt for Irish domiciled to reduce tax down to 15%

I’m in late 30s but feel I can stomach the risk. I set aside 2-3 months of my savings in case if anything happens. One day if I retired will definitely look into bonds.
*
It's not to reduce chance of drawdown, it's reducing the amount of drawdown when a bear market happens because bonds is a different asset class.
e.g. if you had portfolio A 100 Equities : 0 Bonds and portfolio and a 50 Equities : 50 Bonds portfolio, then when a 50% market drop happens, Portfolio A would lose 50% of its value but Portfolio B would only lose about 25% of its value, roughly.

A higher amount of equity will obviously bring you higher return, but the higher you go the more diminished is the reward-per-risk so to say. By having 10-20% in bond no matter how young you are helps reduce maximum portfolio drawdown and doubly serve as a balance mechanism to ensure you buy low, sell high.

My target bond is VAGU - Vanguard Global Aggregate Bd UCITS ETF USD Hgd Acc, which is Irish domicile, has only 15% witholding tax.

Side note, people often equate "risk tolerance" = "how far I can accept temporary losses". But in reality when a real, extended bear market happen, it quickly goes beyond "emotional tolerance" but become a physical problem of "how long I can survive without liquidating my equities at a loss" - and you don't know if its 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years. Most people barely have an emergency fund of 6 months of expense as it is.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 13 2022, 01:40 AM
TSalexkos
post Feb 13 2022, 09:39 AM

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Those who would like to gauge their risk tolerance can go through a hypothetical scenario where the market declines x% by next year, while income is reduced by y% for z amount of time.

For example, 50% decline, 50% income reduction, 2 year duration.

This is to ensure that you have sufficient buffer in your emergency fund and fixed income combined before tapping into equity selling in worst case scenario.

Bogleheads had a few guys who had the influence of great depression 1929 (family asset wiped out, and they were in their early childhood). These were counted as real experience facing macroeconomic shocks and severe economic crisis.

Malmendier & Nagel (2011) had a paper tracking the risk taking behavior of these group of people. Overall, the experience was so painful leading to generations of conservative investing even after so many decades.

For Malaysian, perhaps some real experiences surrounding Asian financial crisis 1997 can provide a very good argument to young investors who need meaningful percentage of fixed income in their asset allocation.

This post has been edited by alexkos: Feb 13 2022, 09:47 AM
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post Feb 13 2022, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Feb 13 2022, 09:39 AM)
Those who would like to gauge their risk tolerance can go through a hypothetical scenario where the market declines x% by next year, while income is reduced by y% for z amount of time.

For example, 50% decline, 50% income reduction, 2 year duration.

This is to ensure that you have sufficient buffer in your emergency fund and fixed income combined before tapping into equity selling in worst case scenario.

Bogleheads had a few guys who had the influence of great depression 1929 (family asset wiped out, and they were in their early childhood). These were counted as real experience facing macroeconomic shocks and severe economic crisis.

Malmendier & Nagel (2011) had a paper tracking the risk taking behavior of these group of people. Overall, the experience was so painful leading to generations of conservative investing even after so many decades.

For Malaysian, perhaps some real experiences surrounding Asian financial crisis 1997 can provide a very good argument to young investors who need meaningful percentage of fixed income in their asset allocation.
*
Just hope that, that "meaningful percentage of fixed income in their asset allocation." is meaniful enough to weather the storm that came like your example,...

"For example, 50% decline, 50% income reduction, 2 year duration"

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post Feb 13 2022, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Feb 13 2022, 10:08 AM)
Just hope that, that "meaningful percentage of fixed income in their asset allocation." is meaniful enough to weather the storm that came like your example,...

"For example, 50% decline, 50% income reduction, 2 year duration"
*
Then again, if focused too much on that example or if using that "worst case" scenario to set a portfolio allocation, will it scale down alot of the ROI generating potentials? (as the "good" roi years are more than that 2 yrs bad)

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QUOTE(MUM @ Feb 13 2022, 10:30 AM)
Then again, if focused too much on that example or if using that "worst case" scenario to set a portfolio allocation, will it scale down alot of the ROI generating potentials? (as the "good" roi years are more than that 2 yrs bad)
*
It does reduce maximum ROI potential. If everyone is disciplined enough to stay the course and lucky enough to have a full time job throughout the economic decline, then 100/0 provides the best investment outcome.

The whole idea of emergency fund and fixed income is to hedge against asset price decline (well, bond price can drop with equity asset class too but in less proportion) so that portfolio volatility is within the range of risk tolerance that one can stomach.

Also, you can't continue the game if you got wiped out in the process. Say everyone has a 30 years investment horizon, the key is to survive first, then thrive.

This post has been edited by alexkos: Feb 13 2022, 11:13 AM
Davidtcf
post Feb 13 2022, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 01:37 AM)
It's not to reduce chance of drawdown, it's reducing the amount of drawdown when a bear market happens because bonds is a different asset class.
e.g. if you had portfolio A 100 Equities : 0 Bonds and portfolio and a 50 Equities : 50 Bonds portfolio, then when a 50% market drop happens, Portfolio A would lose 50% of its value but Portfolio B would only lose about 25% of its value, roughly.

A higher amount of equity will obviously bring you higher return, but the higher you go the more diminished is the reward-per-risk so to say. By having 10-20% in bond no matter how young you are helps reduce maximum portfolio drawdown and doubly serve as a balance mechanism to ensure you buy low, sell high.

My target bond is VAGU - Vanguard Global Aggregate Bd UCITS ETF USD Hgd Acc, which is Irish domicile, has only 15% witholding tax.

Side note, people often equate "risk tolerance" = "how far I can accept temporary losses". But in reality when a real, extended bear market happen, it quickly goes beyond "emotional tolerance" but become a physical problem of "how long I can survive without liquidating my equities at a loss" - and you don't know if its 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years. Most people barely have an emergency fund of 6 months of expense as it is.
*
Thanks.. good info there.

Found this article that explain more on difference of individual bond vs bond ETF:
https://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/et...its%20portfolio.

No idea how to buy individual bond.. have not tried. Really that difficult? Individual bond can ensure capital return.. as long wait for its maturity.

Found a thread on Reddit saying AGGU etf is better due to longer in the market:
https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/...utm_name=iossmf

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 13 2022, 11:33 AM
MUM
post Feb 13 2022, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Feb 13 2022, 11:12 AM)
It does reduce maximum ROI potential. If everyone is disciplined enough to stay the course and lucky enough to have a full time job throughout the economic decline, then 100/0 provides the best investment outcome.
Not maximum, but more to more ROI..
If a port is 20% FI, 80% eq, when that 80% losses 50%,...just how much can that 20% FI helps?


The whole idea of emergency fund and fixed income is to hedge against asset price decline (well, bond price can drop with equity asset class too but in less proportion) so that portfolio volatility is within the range of risk tolerance that one can stomach.
Yes, must be within personal risk level which have to be really tested with real money n not just set in stone like must hv an "X" % of fixed income

Also, you can't continue the game if you got wiped out in the process. Say everyone has a 30 years investment horizon, the key is to survive first, then thrive.
Unless all is into a stock or a type of asset.. Very not easy to have all wipe out...
Also if the portfolio had increased at 10% pa rate for 6 yrs... It would have appreciated 60% and if crashed 50%....still hv alot left.... Just lost the accumulated gains n abit more


*
roarus
post Feb 13 2022, 12:22 PM

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I'm on 80/20 equity/bond for my ETF basket:

up to 5% for punts
75-80% IWDA and recently switched to ISAC for equity
20% LQDA for bonds

For now end game is to glide and hit 30/70 equity/bond upon retirement age then glide back to 40/60 or 50/50 or 60/40 during tenure of retirement. Will have to see how low the market return is then to decide on risk to sustain withdrawal.


My other baskets:
1. EPF + ASNB + PRS (just plain accumulation and no rebalancing)
2. Stocks/active management play
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post Feb 13 2022, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(roarus @ Feb 13 2022, 12:22 PM)
I'm on 80/20 equity/bond for my ETF basket:

up to 5% for punts
75-80% IWDA and recently switched to ISAC for equity
20% LQDA for bonds

For now end game is to glide and hit 30/70 equity/bond upon retirement age then glide back to 40/60 or 50/50 or 60/40 during tenure of retirement. Will have to see how low the market return is then to decide on risk to sustain withdrawal.
My other baskets:
1. EPF + ASNB + PRS (just plain accumulation and no rebalancing)
2. Stocks/active management play
*
Taking into consideration of ASNB fp, & epf and treating them to be FI portions of your cumulated investment portfolio,... What are the ratio now?
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post Feb 13 2022, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(T231H @ Feb 13 2022, 01:14 PM)
Taking into consideration of ASNB fp, & epf and treating them to be FI portions of your cumulated investment portfolio,... What are the ratio now?
*
Way too much biggrin.gif, about 70% of everything liquid converted to MYR market value from cash/cash like/bonds/EPF+ASNB FP like (no risk of capital drawdown). Cash portion inclusive of emergency fund and broker deposits.
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 12 2022, 10:57 PM)
When growing older I suppose. That’s my main concern is after 40, how much to allocate in bonds. But seems like Malaysia has quite a few different options aside from bonds
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If Malaysian and willing to invest in MYR + don't care about "government ponzi scheme", EPF and (if you're bumiputera) ASB are damn good substitutes for bond allocation by nature of being "stable", "no loss" schemes.
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 13 2022, 11:33 AM)
Thanks.. good info there.

Found this article that explain more on difference of individual bond vs bond ETF:
https://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/et...its%20portfolio.

No idea how to buy individual bond.. have not tried. Really that difficult? Individual bond can ensure capital return.. as long wait for its maturity.

Found a thread on Reddit saying AGGU etf is better due to longer in the market:
https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/...utm_name=iossmf
*
I don't think direct bond is easy to buy at low amounts, but I wouldn't know much about that regardless.

From a liquidity and longevity standpoint AGGU is pretty much widely accepted as the better option, as well as AGUG. VAGU is a pure personal preference since Vanguard reduces ongoing cost when possible on their own.

In general I do believe Bond ETFs are much more easier to work with, and easier to sell when you need the cash and doesn't miss out on coupons as much when done so.
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post Feb 13 2022, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Feb 13 2022, 11:53 AM)
If a port is 20% FI, 80% eq, when that 80% losses 50%,...just how much can that 20% FI helps?

Yes, must be within personal risk level which have to be really tested with real money n not just set in stone like must hv an "X" % of fixed income

Unless all is into a stock or a type of asset.. Very not easy to have all wipe out...
Also if the portfolio had increased at 10% pa rate for 6 yrs... It would have appreciated 60% and if crashed 50%....still hv alot left.... Just lost the accumulated gains n abit more
Assuming a portfolio of 1mil, and 80% equities loss 50%, you are down to 600k, with 400k equities and 200k bond (bonds usually drop some too but we'll neglect that for this example)
Now if you are unemployed and needed money, if you sell equities you will be realizing the 50% loss on equities, and when the market recovers, you might significantly recover less if you had to sell quite an amount.

If you had 20% bond however, now you have 200k to survive on by liquidating only the bonds. And in the best case scenario, where you have enough emergency fund to survive this downturn, you can rebalance the bonds into equities to buy them at a huge discount.

That's the role of bond, so 20% surprisingly helps a lot.

QUOTE(MUM)
Also if the portfolio had increased at 10% pa rate for 6 yrs... It would have appreciated 60% and if crashed 50%....still hv alot left.... Just lost the accumulated gains n abit more


In a planned portfolio with not too much margin for error (would be the case for an average earner), having your portfolio rollback by 6 years would severely delay your early retirement, or easily reduce your yearly withdrawal amount in your retirement - at a 50% equity drop, its entirely possible to go from "just comfortable enough" to having to move into a shared apartment and live on maggi for a few years until the market bounces back.
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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Feb 13 2022, 02:54 PM)
If Malaysian and willing to invest in MYR + don't care about "government ponzi scheme", EPF and (if you're bumiputera) ASB are damn good substitutes for bond allocation by nature of being "stable", "no loss" schemes.
*
ASB and ASB loans are my biggest envy and the first time in my life I felt the difference as a non-bumi when I started investing... Malaysia offers plenty of no-loss scheme that most can easily earn 4%+ returns very very safely without having to worry that the money has been cut in half when you actually need it.

The problem remains whether it's actually sustainable... the question starts to pile up with no confident answer behind it... ASB is probably safe for now, but will EPF continue to deliver 0.5% less returns every year? Will SSPN continue to supply 4% a year? Is their vault actually empty and just propped up by the government delaying its implosion year after year as the people still deposit into it without knowing?

When will/how much people will come to the conclusion that "I've decided to trust US financial institution and regulators (which has a strong and long history of untrustworthy-ness and preying on retail investors and the general public) over the Malaysian government and SC"?
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post Feb 13 2022, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 03:37 PM)
Assuming a portfolio of 1mil, and 80% equities loss 50%, you are down to 600k, with 400k equities and 200k bond (bonds usually drop some too but we'll neglect that for this example)
Now if you are unemployed and needed money, if you sell equities you will be realizing the 50% loss on equities, and when the market recovers, you might significantly recover less if you had to sell quite an amount.

If you had 20% bond however, now you have 200k to survive on by liquidating only the bonds. And in the best case scenario, where you have enough emergency fund to survive this downturn, you can rebalance the bonds into equities to buy them at a huge discount.

That's the role of bond, so 20% surprisingly helps a lot.

QUOTE(MUM)
Also if the portfolio had increased at 10% pa rate for 6 yrs... It would have appreciated 60% and if crashed 50%....still hv alot left.... Just lost the accumulated gains n abit more


In a planned portfolio with not too much margin for error (would be the case for an average earner), having your portfolio rollback by 6 years would severely delay your early retirement, or easily reduce your yearly withdrawal amount in your retirement - at a 50% equity drop, its entirely possible to go from "just comfortable enough" to having to move into a shared apartment and live on maggi for a few years until the market bounces back.
*
when one need to sell the balance of the 50% and to having to move into a shared apartment and to survive the on maggi....to tight over the 2~3 BAD years...
then he sure does not have enough for retirements...

for if the markets did not drops....it will just be enough to last him for another few years

thumbup.gif thumbup.gif on that,.." And in the best case scenario, where you have enough emergency fund to survive this downturn, you can rebalance the bonds into equities to buy them at a huge discount.

That's the role of bond, so 20% surprisingly helps a lot."

YES it helps,...but when one is at that situation,...one emotional and financial state of mind may be different....just like now,...miniature example....a number of well known ETFs had been down more that 50%,...and yet there are people still waiting.....while their overall port is still does not have -20% losses or are at retirement age.

btw,....the variance of value of a port with 20FI:80EQ of 1 mil, when ROI of FI is 4.5%, EQ is - 50% compared to a 100% EQ port with - 50% losses is RM 109k


This post has been edited by MUM: Feb 13 2022, 06:04 PM


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KingArthurVI
post Feb 13 2022, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 03:23 PM)
I don't think direct bond is easy to buy at low amounts, but I wouldn't know much about that regardless.

From a liquidity and longevity standpoint AGGU is pretty much widely accepted as the better option, as well as AGUG. VAGU is a pure personal preference since Vanguard reduces ongoing cost when possible on their own.

In general I do believe Bond ETFs are much more easier to work with, and easier to sell when you need the cash and doesn't miss out on coupons as much when done so.
*
I’ve bought a single local Malaysian corporate bond before from CIMB Bank (eww… I know) and can share some details here based on that very limited data point:

1. Most retail bonds have a min investment amount of RM250,000 with subsequent increments of RM50,000
2. Price fluctuations due to supply and demand aside, the bond NAV will actually go up between coupon ex-dates and then go back down after a coupon has been issued, so you won’t “miss out” on coupons if you bought or sold between ex-dates because it’s all priced in
3. Liquidity was a big concern for me, but when I redeemed it fully I was surprised it only took 3 days for the money to show up in my bank account from when I signed the redemption form

After that one-time experience I’ve decided to not dabble with local bonds anymore simply because I don’t have faith in it. I was misled by my bank relationship manager back in the days and bought a so-called “junk bond” with 6.85% p.a. coupon, which sounds attractive (3.85-4.85% real return after inflation) but it was an unrated bond. The China Evergrande crisis scared me and so I realized holding a single bond is a single point of failure, bond ETFs or bond funds are definitely the way to go for me personally in the future.
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post Feb 13 2022, 06:28 PM

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deleted, double posted, oops.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 13 2022, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE(MUM @ Feb 13 2022, 04:44 PM)
In a planned portfolio with not too much margin for error (would be the case for an average earner), having your portfolio rollback by 6 years would severely delay your early retirement, or easily reduce your yearly withdrawal amount in your retirement - at a 50% equity drop, its entirely possible to go from "just comfortable enough" to having to move into a shared apartment and live on maggi for a few years until the market bounces back.
*

does one need to sell the balance of the 50% and to having to move into a shared apartment and to survive the on maggi....to tight over the 2~3 BAD years...
then he sure does not have enough for retirements...

for if the markets did not drops....it will just be enough to last him for another few years
*
He don't HAVE to, but if he doesn't do it, it would jeopardize his real retirement.

Okay, lets say someone has retired with 1mil and is withdrawing 4% a year (so about ~40k a year, ~3.3k a month) to live really modestly.

Market drops by 50%, his 100% equity portfolio is now worth 500k. His withdrawal of the year is now 20k, so he barely have 1.6k a month to spend.

Let say he's not willing to give up his living standards, he continue to draw 40k a year (8% withdrawal rate) - that's basically setting up his retirement portfolio for failure in far-to-mid future, i mean.

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post Feb 13 2022, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 06:29 PM)
He don't HAVE to, but if he doesn't do it, it would jeopardize his real retirement.

Okay, lets say someone has retired with 1mil and is withdrawing 4% a year (so about ~40k a year, ~3.3k a month) to live really modestly.

Market drops by 50%, his 100% equity portfolio is now worth 500k. His withdrawal of the year is now 20k, so he barely have 1.6k a month to spend.

Let say he's not willing to give up his living standards, he continue to draw 40k a year (8% withdrawal rate) - that's basically setting up his retirement portfolio for failure in far-to-mid future, i mean.
*
Depending of his stages of investment or life stages...
If at retirement n if his passive income is barely enough or just enough... Then a stable returns would be advised..

But iif his portfolio is at accumulation stages,... Any % pa of lesser ROI from his yearly returns will impact his accumulation of his retirement money...
More % in eq will have higher chances of getting more money for his retirement
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post Feb 13 2022, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 03:23 PM)
I don't think direct bond is easy to buy at low amounts, but I wouldn't know much about that regardless.

From a liquidity and longevity standpoint AGGU is pretty much widely accepted as the better option, as well as AGUG. VAGU is a pure personal preference since Vanguard reduces ongoing cost when possible on their own.

In general I do believe Bond ETFs are much more easier to work with, and easier to sell when you need the cash and doesn't miss out on coupons as much when done so.
*
Thanks will consider either bond etf once I research further.

Yea tried to search for individual bonds to buy some US gov bond could cost usd3k just for one bond. Also need to have willing buyer if wanna sell a bond. Some like SG bond need to wait gov to issue a bond after a few mths. Everything so complicated about them. I think to simplify things just leave it to a bond ETF.

Found some good videos today as this topic now pique my interest:





The first video more reliable. Second video Kelvin feels he don’t need bonds due to SG retirement fund, but shows an important part which is suggested bond ratio in one’s portfolio.. in Reddit someone else mention is your age -10 = how much percent of bonds one should have.



This couple instead forgo bonds completely due to some research they quote. The comments below the video are interesting to read. Many disagree and say bonds have a role to play.
So in the end depends what you’re comfortable with, and stick with the plan.

I’m thinking locally to substitute bond we could buy fixed deposit since those are guaranteed returns? If a FD is offering good rate would be wise to go ahead? But yea downside is we’re using MYR which any day might plunge lower.

Will look into SG to see if got any good dividend distributing type bond etf.. since SG don’t charge taxes on dividends.
Edit: best SG bond etf is - ABF SG bond etf. Performance is similar to AGGU etf so depends which u prefer or can just get both.

Found an article that mentioned that it is better to invest in short term bonds when interest rates are expected to rise:
https://www.im.natixis.com/us/portfolio-con...-term-bond-etfs

Found a good short term bond etf which is IBTU or IB01. One is accumulating another distributing. Reason for price difference of USD 5 vs USD 100 per etf: https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/...utm_name=iossmf

Other list of good short term bonds here (need to ownself search for UCITS Irish domiciled counterpart): https://seekingalpha.com/article/4379128-be...1hoCproQAvD_BwE

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 14 2022, 02:05 AM
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 13 2022, 08:35 PM)
Thanks will consider either bond etf once I research further.

Yea tried to search for individual bonds to buy some US gov bond could cost usd3k just for one bond. Also need to have willing buyer if wanna sell a bond. Some like SG bond need to wait gov to issue a bond after a few mths. Everything so complicated about them. I think to simplify things just leave it to a bond ETF.

Found some good videos today as this topic now pique my interest:

The first video more reliable. Second video Kelvin feels he don’t need bonds due to SG retirement fund, but shows an important part which is suggested bond ratio in one’s portfolio.. in Reddit someone else mention is your age -10 = how much percent of bonds one should have.

This couple instead forgo bonds completely due to some research they quote. The comments below the video are interesting to read. Many disagree and say bonds have a role to play.
So in the end depends what you’re comfortable with, and stick with the plan.

I’m thinking locally to substitute bond we could buy fixed deposit since those are guaranteed returns? If a FD is offering good rate would be wise to go ahead? But yea downside is we’re using MYR which any day might plunge lower.

Will look into SG to see if got any good dividend distributing type bond etf.. since SG don’t charge taxes on dividends.
Edit: best SG bond etf is - ABF SG bond etf. Performance is similar to AGGU etf so depends which u prefer or can just get both.

Found an article that mentioned that it is better to invest in short term bonds when interest rates are expected to rise:
https://www.im.natixis.com/us/portfolio-con...-term-bond-etfs

Found a good short term bond etf which is IBTU or IB01. One is accumulating another distributing. Reason for price difference of USD 5 vs USD 100 per etf: https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/...utm_name=iossmf

Other list of good short term bonds here (need to ownself search for UCITS Irish domiciled counterpart): https://seekingalpha.com/article/4379128-be...1hoCproQAvD_BwE
*
Anything by Ben Felix has a strong recommendation from me. Some advices are Canadian exclusive for sure but most of the time he does explain the logic behind them that be applicable to everyone.

As suggested before, EPF/CPF puts most investor in MY/SG in a unique position where they have a mandatory fallback plan. However as they have a deposit/withdrawal limit which meant they could never truly behave as bonds until retirement age. So when accepting this substitute will have to keep a few characteristics in mind.

I believe FD has similar issues and even with rolling FD it's just way too much trouble for what it's worth, plus the return is generally weak even with insane lockup periods, and plus it's MYR, one bad year of inflation can easily erode away months to years of returns that seemed lucrative when you initially placed it. Strongly against it personally.

For those seeking 100% equities allocation, gocurrycracker, a blog by FIRE'd couple have a detailed write up on why they think it's the way to go, how it affects their planning, and what kind of acknowledged risk they are taking for the extra return, and how they deal with it.

It's a great read and lots of concrete numbers.
https://www.gocurrycracker.com/path-100-equities/

As for bond choices, I generally still prefer total bond indexes for their diversification and liquidity. The last thing I ever, ever want, is for my fallback plan to get defaulted exactly when I need it

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 14 2022, 06:01 AM
Davidtcf
post Feb 14 2022, 12:25 PM

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Yea true also if focus too much on US treasuries alone. Will have more risk if something bad happens to US debt (such as a default).

Will buy some AGGG. At least will get dividend semi annually even if ETF price goes down.
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Bernie Madoff's episode is a good historical lesson to those funds which are too good to be true.

Charateristics of too-good-to-be-true financial instruments
1) Guaranteed return that is significantly higher than risk-free rate (FD rate)* (advertised as high return asset class)
2) Guaranteed capital (advertised as low risk asset class)

Or something like low risk, high return stuff.

Try not to over-concentrate your asset allocation around these stuff. Equity, bonds, or money market instruments alike.
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post Feb 14 2022, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 14 2022, 12:25 PM)
Yea true also if focus too much on US treasuries alone. Will have more risk if something bad happens to US debt (such as a default).

Will buy some AGGG. At least will get dividend semi annually even if ETF price goes down.
*
Just curious, why AGGG instead of something like VAGU which is accumulating?
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 14 2022, 12:25 PM)
Yea true also if focus too much on US treasuries alone. Will have more risk if something bad happens to US debt (such as a default).

Will buy some AGGG. At least will get dividend semi annually even if ETF price goes down.
*
AGGG pays monthly dividends but if like pure bond why not BND or BNDX name sake ETF
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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 14 2022, 02:10 PM)
Just curious, why AGGG instead of something like VAGU which is accumulating?
*
If u r the type who is not limited to US market, I can suggest Abfmy Singapore bond ETF listed on SGX for a safe heaven play.

It invests in SG government bonds, which is AAA rated country (higher than US). You get interests which is a bit higher than SG FD and, depending on market, can even be higher than US Treasuries. And, more importantly, there is no witholding tax.

As of yesterday, SGS 10 year yield 1.93% and US 10 year Treasuries yield 1.95%. Pretty close.







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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 14 2022, 02:39 PM)
If u r the type who is not limited to US market, I can suggest Abfmy Singapore bond ETF listed on SGX for a safe heaven play.

It invests in SG government bonds, which is AAA rated country (higher than US). You get interests which is a bit higher than SG FD and, depending on market, can even be higher than US Treasuries. And, more importantly, there is no witholding tax.

As of yesterday, SGS 10 year yield 1.93% and US 10 year Treasuries yield 1.95%. Pretty close.
*
And to diversify further Chinese Govt bonds ICBC CSOP CGB ETF S$ (CYC) in SGX also. I know Chinese equities is hit real hard since last year 2021 but this is slightly different this is bonds issued by Chinese Govt. I know some readers in here quite anti-China and won't invest that is ok. I only know monies talk loudest. If one believe Chinese govt can default on bonds and lower rating than Spore govt can don't invest also. I am just sharing info.

While ABF SG BOND ETF (A35) is safe the latest traded price is close to like 5 years ago in 2017. For such ETF/stock I generally won't buy becuz it don't move. Imagine you bought in 2017 and DCA 5 years later the share price at 2022 is back to 2017 ? Some could argue add more just to get the half yearly dividends of cuz but I think otherwise. To me long term is the investment must overall be on the rising trend not go back down.

https://www.sgx.com/securities/products/A35
https://www.sgx.com/securities/products/CYC

This post has been edited by sgh: Feb 14 2022, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 14 2022, 02:24 PM)
AGGG pays monthly dividends but if like pure bond why not BND or BNDX name sake ETF
*
To my knowledge, the logic of Irish-domiciled near equivalent AGGG/AGUG/AGGU or alternative IGLO is to avoid estate tax and withholding tax compared to US domiciled BND/BNDX.
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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 14 2022, 02:39 PM)
If u r the type who is not limited to US market, I can suggest Abfmy Singapore bond ETF listed on SGX for a safe heaven play.

It invests in SG government bonds, which is AAA rated country (higher than US). You get interests which is a bit higher than SG FD and, depending on market, can even be higher than US Treasuries. And, more importantly, there is no witholding tax.

As of yesterday, SGS 10 year yield 1.93% and US 10 year Treasuries yield 1.95%. Pretty close.
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Out of curiosity, thoughts on ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund?

Also, which platform do you use to buy SGX stuff? Most platform I know do charge a rather hefty fee for SGX access.
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post Feb 14 2022, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 14 2022, 03:06 PM)
Out of curiosity, thoughts on ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund?

Also, which platform do you use to buy SGX stuff? Most platform I know do charge a rather hefty fee for SGX access.
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For SGX, HKEX I think you can try Tiger, Moomoo as I don't think IBKR is offering so good rates for non-US exchange traded ETF.
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 14 2022, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Feb 14 2022, 03:12 PM)
For SGX, HKEX I think you can try Tiger, Moomoo as I don't think IBKR is offering so good rates for non-US exchange traded ETF.
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Hmm, I don't like either platform for various reasons. Thanks anyway for the answer!
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post Feb 14 2022, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 14 2022, 03:06 PM)
Out of curiosity, thoughts on ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund?

Also, which platform do you use to buy SGX stuff? Most platform I know do charge a rather hefty fee for SGX access.
*
Stay away from ABF Malaysia being dragged down thanks to 1MDB doh.gif
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 14 2022, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 14 2022, 03:18 PM)
Stay away from ABF Malaysia being dragged down thanks to 1MDB  doh.gif
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Just gathering sentiments, appreciate the input! I wouldn't touch anything MYR with a 10 meter stick regardless biggrin.gif
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post Feb 14 2022, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Feb 14 2022, 03:02 PM)

While ABF SG BOND ETF (A35) is safe the latest traded price is close to like 5 years ago in 2017. For such ETF/stock I generally won't buy becuz it don't move. Imagine you bought in 2017 and DCA 5 years later the share price at 2022 is back to 2017 ? Some could argue add more just to get the half yearly dividends of cuz but I think otherwise. To me long term is the investment must overall be on the rising trend not go back down.
Bonds (in particular govt bonds) are supposed to be that way in the long term.

It moves up only when economy goes bad. When economy improves it goes down, and then will remain roughly stable..until economy goes bad again.

This inverse relationship with equities, is the important thing when it comes to diversification. During that month in March 2020, global equities markets dropped 30%. This one was up 2% in that month. In 2008 GFC, global equities market dropped 50%.This one was up 7%.

N while u wait for these recessions, u earn the dividends, which is above FD rate.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Feb 14 2022, 03:24 PM
Cubalagi
post Feb 14 2022, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 14 2022, 03:06 PM)
Out of curiosity, thoughts on ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund?

Also, which platform do you use to buy SGX stuff? Most platform I know do charge a rather hefty fee for SGX access.
*
QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 14 2022, 03:18 PM)
Stay away from ABF Malaysia being dragged down thanks to 1MDB  doh.gif
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Abfmy can be decent as well if u know the timing.

As the Malaysian economy started to slow down in 2019, Abfmy returned 8.74%. 2020 it was 7.32%. This is total return (price and dividends). Not bad at all.

I will probably avoid it for now for the time being as Malaysian economy recovers n BNM hikes. Malaysia is behind Singapore in monetary tightening. But there could be entry point next year.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Feb 14 2022, 03:35 PM
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post Feb 14 2022, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 14 2022, 02:10 PM)
Just curious, why AGGG instead of something like VAGU which is accumulating?
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I notice bond ETF prices could end up having negative growth (even when they drop it's a small % usually). So rather have some dividend in my broker account when its price drop.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 14 2022, 10:31 PM
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post Feb 14 2022, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 14 2022, 03:23 PM)
Bonds  (in particular govt bonds) are supposed to be that way in the long term.

It moves up only when economy goes bad. When economy improves it goes down, and then will remain roughly stable..until economy goes bad again.

This inverse relationship with equities, is the important thing when it comes to diversification. During that month in March 2020, global equities markets dropped 30%. This one was up 2% in that month. In 2008 GFC, global equities market dropped 50%.This one was up 7%.

N while u wait for these recessions, u earn the dividends, which is above FD rate.
*
Thanks for sharing. Also the reason why I am not a big fan of bond. As you pointed out, equities drop 30%, bond up only 2% ? equities drop 50% bond up only 7% ? And that is your monies will be tied up for quite a lot of years which can be used to invest to get higher returns like equities etc in good times.

In another SG forum, I have asked can the definition of "bond" be stretched further like bank FD, insurance endowment plans, CPF (Msia EPF) etc with guaranteed capital protected investment? If yes then the so called "bond allocation" need not be strictly confined to bond or bond ETF or bond mutual fund.
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QUOTE(sgh @ Feb 14 2022, 04:15 PM)
Thanks for sharing. Also the reason why I am not a big fan of bond. As you pointed out, equities drop 30%, bond up only 2% ? equities drop 50% bond up only 7% ? And that is your monies will be tied up for quite a lot of years which can be used to invest to get higher returns like equities etc in good times.

In another SG forum, I have asked can the definition of "bond" be stretched further like bank FD, insurance endowment plans, CPF (Msia EPF) etc with guaranteed capital protected investment? If yes then the so called "bond allocation" need not be strictly confined to bond or bond ETF or bond mutual fund.
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Same at as we’ll as with you never liked bonds and I rather buy commodities stapled ETF or REITs instead of bonds as timing is important because it is difficult to get out bonds without incurring any minor losses doh.gif
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QUOTE(sgh @ Feb 14 2022, 04:15 PM)
Thanks for sharing. Also the reason why I am not a big fan of bond. As you pointed out, equities drop 30%, bond up only 2% ? equities drop 50% bond up only 7% ? And that is your monies will be tied up for quite a lot of years which can be used to invest to get higher returns like equities etc in good times.

In another SG forum, I have asked can the definition of "bond" be stretched further like bank FD, insurance endowment plans, CPF (Msia EPF) etc with guaranteed capital protected investment? If yes then the so called "bond allocation" need not be strictly confined to bond or bond ETF or bond mutual fund.
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It's 2% because the 30% drop was fast, within a month. So it's 2% in a month

If u take a look at the whole 2020, Abfsg total return was 7.9%. quite respectable, considering it didn't give u a near heart attack in March 2020.

Compare this with the STI which still closed -13% in 2020.

Those other things u mentioned are not bonds tho. So it has different behaviors.

I'm not a Boglehead (far from it), I view my portfolio like a football team. I have defenders, midfielders n strikers. N I tend to switch formations depending on market conditions. So I don't have a fixed bond allocation like a Boglehead.




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post Feb 14 2022, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 11 2022, 12:57 PM)
VWRA do hold emerging markets and European markets... And they are holding it by weight/market cap as it should be. What you are referring to is overweighting certain country such as China, which given investors sentiment that US is overvalued or due for a correction in the near future, is not a bad idea to underweight US.

But lack of a good way to buy ex-US UCITS fund means that you are either stuck with having to buy multiple other ETF, or buying some VXUS and losing out a little on dividends to withholding tax.

Personally I'm happy with just having VWRA and skip the rebalance nightmare and cost. The performance will even out overtime given my horizon.
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Well said. I stand corrected. Thanks for the well-constructed reply!
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post Feb 14 2022, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 14 2022, 04:36 PM)
Same at as we’ll as with you never liked bonds and I rather buy commodities stapled ETF or REITs instead of bonds as timing is important because it is difficult to get out bonds without incurring any minor losses  doh.gif
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Staples ETFs and REITs right now many in the red also. We just need to hodl through this tough time.. things will get better later. Treat it as a discount to get the stocks or ETFs that you like.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 14 2022, 07:57 PM
Davidtcf
post Feb 14 2022, 10:29 PM

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this Reddit thread has given me an inspiration on how to utilize bonds:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/co...y_bonds_at_all/

QUOTE
If you rebalance periodically, it allows you to take advantage of the markets ups and downs.

Let's say you have a portfolio that 80% stocks and 20% bonds.

The market takes a big down turn, stock values plummet. Your portfolio has now shifted to 50% stocks and 50% bonds because your stock shares lost so much value.

So it is time to rebalance. You sell off some of your bonds which gives you the money to buy stocks while they are cheap, bringing you back to 80%/20%.

Then the market takes a huge upswing. Stock values skyrocket. Your portfolio is now at 90%/10%. It is time to rebalance again. You sell off some stocks to buy bonds bringing you back to 80%/20%.

This is how you buy low and sell high.

When stocks are low and cheap, you have the money available to buy up more, when their value is high and possibly peaking, you can take some of those profits and move them to a more secure position.


QUOTE
The idea is you don't try to time the market.

You pick a time once or twice a year to rebalance and stick to those regardless of what you think the market is about to do.

You might not get the full advantage of a multiyear bull market, but you get the benefit of taking big advantage of the downswings.

I think someone much smarter than me would need to crunch the historical numbers and see which way works out better and how often.



QUOTE
You also don't have to actually sell stock positions to buy the bonds during bull runs (and miss the rest of the run with that chunk), you can just weight contributions more towards bonds to stay in balance.

It's effectively the same, I think, but psychologically appeals to never having to sell.


This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 14 2022, 10:34 PM
blackchides
post Feb 15 2022, 12:59 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 14 2022, 10:29 PM)
this Reddit thread has given me an inspiration on how to utilize bonds:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/co...y_bonds_at_all/
*
Yeah this is a good portfolio management technique, except I hold 20% in cash instead (MMF, housing loan accounts, SSPN, etc), rather than buy bond funds. I just feel like there are enough instruments that provide more steady, less-volatile, risk-free returns than buying bonds.

Happy to hear a different perspective on this of course.
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post Feb 15 2022, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 14 2022, 10:29 PM)
this Reddit thread has given me an inspiration on how to utilize bonds:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/co...y_bonds_at_all/
*
Exactly how StashAway does it too rclxms.gif
SUSxander83
post Feb 15 2022, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 14 2022, 07:57 PM)
Staples ETFs and REITs right now many in the red also. We just need to hodl through this tough time.. things will get better later. Treat it as a discount to get the stocks or ETFs that you like.
*
In fact I bought REITs and Staples during the pandemic crash and it was major red all along until recently I sold them off recently early this year when it was hitting 52 week high

Just need to find the right time to buy again now with geo news running amok now rclxms.gif
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post Feb 15 2022, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(blackchides @ Feb 15 2022, 12:59 AM)
Yeah this is a good portfolio management technique, except I hold 20% in cash instead (MMF, housing loan accounts, SSPN, etc), rather than buy bond funds. I just feel like there are enough instruments that provide more steady, less-volatile, risk-free returns than buying bonds.

Happy to hear a different perspective on this of course.
*
just found out Malaysia's own popular MMF (money market fund) is Versa.. interest payment being bi-weekly and able to withdraw next day (if submit before 2.30pm business day) is great! It is also SC approved launched just last year in Malaysia.
downside is they invest using MYR it seems.

Stashaway simple would be using USD. However withdrawal part then really slow usually 3 days at least. sweat.gif And interest payment only done once a month. Both Versa and Stashaway Simple has a projected return of 2.4% per annum.



Just tested Versa with some small funds. Interface really clean. Find some referral code via google so that will get RM10 on first 100.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 15 2022, 09:09 AM
Cubalagi
post Feb 15 2022, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 14 2022, 04:36 PM)
Same at as we’ll as with you never liked bonds and I rather buy commodities stapled ETF or REITs instead of bonds as timing is important because it is difficult to get out bonds without incurring any minor losses  doh.gif
*
QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 15 2022, 01:42 AM)
In fact I bought REITs and Staples during the pandemic crash and it was major red all along until recently I sold them off recently early this year when it was hitting 52 week high

Just need to find the right time to buy again now with geo news running amok now  rclxms.gif
*
Buying during pandemic? That shouldn't be too bad. (Why did u sell btw?)

The test for a real defensive asset is what happen if u bought before the pandemic/recession?

For eg. The Singapore REITs index dropped 30% in from Feb-March 2030, in line with the broader market. Basically kaput as well.


This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Feb 15 2022, 09:08 AM
cucumber
post Feb 15 2022, 09:25 AM

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Great thread! Thanks for starting one.

I have a question.

I know IBKR is probably the preferred broker for most for its low fees, can buy Irish Domiciled ETF like VWRA and if you are buying US ones you get to DCA by buying fractional shares.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable putting all my money in a single broker (not to mention outside of Malaysia).

So I'm curious, do you guys diversify / split to different broker accounts? If yes, what do you use and what are you favourite funds? VWRA, VTI+VXUS, VT?
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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 15 2022, 09:06 AM)
Buying during pandemic? That shouldn't be too bad. (Why did u sell btw?)

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Likely he sold it coz he already made from the REITs from prev growth.

So right now use the money from the sale to buy more good stocks or ETF. They are on a discount now. Since these has a higher chance to grow and shoot to the moon once this downturn is over.

Once Fed stop increasing interest rates, that’s when you’ll see market return to normal. Maybe not as good as 2 years ago but definitely some growth that time.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 15 2022, 09:51 AM
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post Feb 15 2022, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(cucumber @ Feb 15 2022, 09:25 AM)
Great thread! Thanks for starting one.

I have a question.

I know IBKR is probably the preferred broker for most for its low fees, can buy Irish Domiciled ETF like VWRA and if you are buying US ones you get to DCA by buying fractional shares.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable putting all my money in a single broker (not to mention outside of Malaysia).

So I'm curious, do you guys diversify / split to different broker accounts? If yes, what do you use and what are you favourite funds? VWRA, VTI+VXUS, VT?
*
You are always encouraged to diversify, brokers included. But the hassle of managing multiple accounts, the different fee structures, different countries in which the brokers are based (hence possible legal issues) can be intimidating. So it does require scale for diversification to outweigh the risk of using a single broker. After all you are assured of the bottom line: all brokers are insured up to a certain limit. The bottom line is the same regardless of brokers.

That said, if you value diversification on top of all regardless of your asset size and above all the hassle, feel free to open as many brokerage accounts as you like.

This post has been edited by TOS: Feb 15 2022, 10:58 AM
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 15 2022, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(cucumber @ Feb 15 2022, 09:25 AM)
Great thread! Thanks for starting one.

I have a question.

I know IBKR is probably the preferred broker for most for its low fees, can buy Irish Domiciled ETF like VWRA and if you are buying US ones you get to DCA by buying fractional shares.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable putting all my money in a single broker (not to mention outside of Malaysia).

So I'm curious, do you guys diversify / split to different broker accounts? If yes, what do you use and what are you favourite funds? VWRA, VTI+VXUS, VT?
*
Not sure about the others, but I've not invested long enough or a big enough sum for me to not sleep well worrying that my money will disappear overnight.

I use IBKR and hold VWRA, AVUV, AVDV. I'm expecting that by the time it grow to an amount I need to worry about broker diversification, there will be plenty of competitors popping up with similar offerings. For now, I don't see a reason to use anything other than IBKR.

At the moment due to needing access to London Stock Exchange, many brokerage are unsuitable candidates for me... Syfe Trade/Futu Moomoo/eToro have no access to VWRA, so the closest thing I can get is VWRA via Syfe DIY portfolio, which charges a hefty fee on top of the base ER. So, not much choice here unless you want to bite the estate tax + 30 withholding tax bullet.

By the way folks, Bogleheads thread. If it's discussion about timing your purchases, there's always the stocks thread instead. or the stashaway thread

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 15 2022, 11:19 AM
cucumber
post Feb 15 2022, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 15 2022, 10:55 AM)
At the moment due to needing access to London Stock Exchange, many brokerage are unsuitable candidates for me... Syfe Trade/Futu Moomoo/eToro have access to VWRA. So the closest thing I can get is VWRA via Syfe DIY portfolio, which charges a hefty fee on top of the base ER. So, not much choice here unless you want to bite the estate tax + 30 withholding tax bullet.

*
Thanks for sharing, I didn't realize Syfe and Futu Moomoo have access to VWRA... I'll check that out. Yea, want to avoid estate tax + reduce the 30% withholding tax if possible, IBKR is the best so far.

What about TDAmeritrade? Doesn't seem very popular around here for some reason.

This post has been edited by cucumber: Feb 15 2022, 11:18 AM
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(cucumber @ Feb 15 2022, 11:17 AM)
Thanks for sharing, I didn't realize Syfe and Futu Moomoo have access to VWRA... I'll check that out. Yea, want to avoid estate tax + reduce the 30% withholding tax if possible, IBKR is the best so far.

What about TDAmeritrade? Doesn't seem very popular around here for some reason.
*
Sorry, sorry! Made a typo, I meant to say they have no access to VWRA to my knowledge.

Not familiar with TDA myself, generally when it comes to foreign brokers, non IBKR loses a lot of money on deposit and forex alone...
cucumber
post Feb 15 2022, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 15 2022, 11:20 AM)
Sorry, sorry! Made a typo, I meant to say they have no access to VWRA to my knowledge.

Not familiar with TDA myself, generally when it comes to foreign brokers, non IBKR loses a lot of money on deposit and forex alone...
*
Ah ok no worries. Thanks
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post Feb 15 2022, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 13 2022, 03:46 PM)
ASB is probably safe for now, but will EPF continue to deliver 0.5% less returns every year? Will SSPN continue to supply 4% a year? Is their vault actually empty and just propped up by the government delaying its implosion year after year as the people still deposit into it without knowing?

When will/how much people will come to the conclusion that "I've decided to trust US financial institution and regulators (which has a strong and long history of untrustworthy-ness and preying on retail investors and the general public) over the Malaysian government and SC"?
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One thing I would say about EPF, it's technically supposed a pension fund and thus strictly governed by many laws, so unless there's a spectacular failure in the checks and balances of the law and our parliament, the crooks of government cannot steal it willy-nilly, thankfully.

(if that does happen i think we all have bigger problems than just the loss of retirement money)

EPF's main problem on delivering dividends comes down to its massive funds. The more money there is the more money is needed to deliver the same % of dividends. 5% of 1 million is way smaller in numbers than 5% of 10 billion. Just tracking stuff on Bursa any disposal by EPF can easily push prices of the disposed stocks down because of the sheer volume. EPF's greatest enemy on delivering dividends ironically is itself 🤣
KingArthurVI
post Feb 15 2022, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 15 2022, 08:49 AM)
just found out Malaysia's own popular MMF (money market fund) is Versa.. interest payment being bi-weekly and able to withdraw next day (if submit before 2.30pm business day) is great! It is also SC approved launched just last year in Malaysia.
downside is they invest using MYR it seems.

Stashaway simple would be using USD. However withdrawal part then really slow usually 3 days at least.  sweat.gif And interest payment only done once a month. Both Versa and Stashaway Simple has a projected return of 2.4% per annum.



Just tested Versa with some small funds. Interface really clean. Find some referral code via google so that will get RM10 on first 100.
*
You brought up a good point here. SA Simple / Versa or other MMF locally, their returns are kinda on par with international bond markets, right? I'm pulling this out of my ass probably, but last I checked US long-term treasury yield was 1.9x or 2.x%? If they're on par then perhaps Versa would work well
rexus
post Feb 15 2022, 02:12 PM

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Showing my support. Although not a pure boglehead but I do follow the approach. Stay the course.
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post Feb 15 2022, 02:29 PM

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I support the formation of this Bogleheads Local Chapter. I've mostly relied on "investing from singapore" guide on the bogleheads wiki, since there aren't any malaysian guides written so far. Thanks to the good forumers on LYN forum, I have been enlightened to the ways of Bogle investing.

BTW, are there advantages of choosing VWRA (USD) over VWRP (GBP)? They are just different currencies, but the underlying assets are still the same. I have read an article on the bogleheads wiki regarding Non-US investors and ETF currencies.

QUOTE
Non-US investors and ETF currencies demonstrates why it is that for investors in these ETFs, the only currency exchange rate that impacts long term returns is the one between the investor's home currency and the currency of the ETF's assets. During the holding period, the investor owns only assets valued in the currency of the assets. Other currencies besides the asset's and investor's own are irrelevant.


Based on the above statement, are there any significant advantages of VWRA over VWRP? I am currently using IBKR. Does IBKR offer better conversion rates from USD/SGD vs GBP/SGD?
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(pigscanfly @ Feb 15 2022, 02:29 PM)
I support the formation of this Bogleheads Local Chapter. I've mostly relied on "investing from singapore" guide on the bogleheads wiki, since there aren't any malaysian guides written so far. Thanks to the good forumers on LYN forum, I have been enlightened to the ways of Bogle investing.

BTW, are there advantages of choosing VWRA (USD) over VWRP (GBP)? They are just different currencies, but the underlying assets are still the same. I have read an article on the bogleheads wiki regarding Non-US investors and ETF currencies.
Based on the above statement, are there any significant advantages of VWRA over VWRP? I am currently using IBKR. Does IBKR offer better conversion rates from USD/SGD vs GBP/SGD?
*
There are a few way to approach this, but I'll explain my personal logic and see any of then seems convincing to you.

1. I prefer my holdings to be denominated/convert favourably in the currency I am most likely to use when retired.

2. SGD is very pegged to USD.

3. Brexit dollars.

4. My small cap value tilt and future bond holdings are either denominated in USD or USD hedged.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 15 2022, 02:40 PM
KingArthurVI
post Feb 15 2022, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(pigscanfly @ Feb 15 2022, 02:29 PM)
I support the formation of this Bogleheads Local Chapter. I've mostly relied on "investing from singapore" guide on the bogleheads wiki, since there aren't any malaysian guides written so far. Thanks to the good forumers on LYN forum, I have been enlightened to the ways of Bogle investing.

BTW, are there advantages of choosing VWRA (USD) over VWRP (GBP)? They are just different currencies, but the underlying assets are still the same. I have read an article on the bogleheads wiki regarding Non-US investors and ETF currencies.
Based on the above statement, are there any significant advantages of VWRA over VWRP? I am currently using IBKR. Does IBKR offer better conversion rates from USD/SGD vs GBP/SGD?
*
IBKR always offers the spot rate and charges a flat fee ($2?) for currency conversions so there's likely no difference between converting SGD to USD or GBP there. I chose VWRA because USD is easier for me to do mental gymnastics on and it's also "the world's currency". If MYR goes to shit I'll at least feel an ounce of comfort that my investments are in USD. I wouldn't feel as safe holding a big chunk of my net worth in GBP since I also anecdotally have a bit more faith in the USD than GBP after Brexit.
KingArthurVI
post Feb 15 2022, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 15 2022, 02:37 PM)
There are a few way to approach this, but I'll explain my personal logic and see any of then seems convincing to you.

1. I prefer my holdings to be denominated in the currency I am most likely to use when retired.

2. SGD is very pegged to USD.

3. Brexit dollars.
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Bro you moving to USA? brows.gif
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 15 2022, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 15 2022, 02:38 PM)
Bro you moving to USA? brows.gif
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Oops, I edited my message so it makes a little more sense.

And nah, I'm asian, I don't want to go to a backwards country to get shot and covid, and have to tip 20 pack of nasi lemak for soggy pizza delivered cold. Not even as a traveling location.

Just that USD will convert very well to SGD/JPY/TWD or most fun countries if things stay the way they are .

If that changes I may reconsider the currency my investment is in later on.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 15 2022, 02:44 PM
TSalexkos
post Feb 15 2022, 02:43 PM

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Just a quick one. Our EPF is mandated by law to deliver at least 2.5% return every year. Also, fund composition normally hovers around 50% equity, 45% bond, and 5% cash.

There's less discussion on incorporating EPF as part of our asset allocation. Our western counterpart have their 401k and IRA stuff alike. With penalty fee, they can withdraw their 401k earlier to meet extraordinary financial challenge like the pandemic. For us, there's no way to withdraw unless one decides to leave the country.

As our EPF fund is illiquid until age 55, I exclude them in my typical 70/30 asset allocation.

This post has been edited by alexkos: Feb 15 2022, 02:45 PM
Medufsaid
post Feb 15 2022, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 15 2022, 02:38 PM)
Bro you moving to USA? brows.gif
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quite normal. i know of someone who's FIRE... living in KL but his monies are all in SGD. he retired decades ago

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Feb 15 2022, 02:44 PM
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Feb 15 2022, 02:43 PM)
quite normal. i know of someone who's FIRE... living in KL but his monies are all in SGD. he retired decades ago
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Zero reasons not to have your savings in a strong, stable currency. AKA not MYR.
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post Feb 15 2022, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 15 2022, 01:25 PM)
You brought up a good point here. SA Simple / Versa or other MMF locally, their returns are kinda on par with international bond markets, right? I'm pulling this out of my ass probably, but last I checked US long-term treasury yield was 1.9x or 2.x%? If they're on par then perhaps Versa would work well
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But..but..local MMF is in that hated currency..MYR 😁

/S

But seriously l, if u want to compare MYR MMF then it should be with MYR Bonds. Malaysia 10 year MGS is 3.75% now.


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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 15 2022, 02:48 PM)
But..but..local MMF is in that hated currency..MYR 😁

/S

But seriously l, if u want to compare MYR MMF then it should be with MYR Bonds. Malaysia 10 year MGS is 3.75% now.
*
Versa's still great for emergency fund though, it's what I use them for. I'd rather not have to go through remittance in an emergency.

But yeah, if I wanted bonds I would get non-MYR denominated bonds just because the coupon payment might not even recoup inflation sad.gif

If I am being honest I trust MGS as much as I trust SC, that's to say I'd rather trust some other country's counterpart tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 15 2022, 02:51 PM
Cubalagi
post Feb 15 2022, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Feb 15 2022, 02:50 PM)
Versa's still great for emergency fund though, it's what I use them for. I'd rather not have to go through remittance in an emergency.

But yeah, if I wanted bonds I would get non-MYR denominated bonds just because the coupon payment might not even recoup inflation  sad.gif

If I am being honest I trust MGS as much as I trust SC, that's to say I'd rather trust some other country's counterpart  tongue.gif
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U should trust MGS more than any local MMF and even FD tho..MGS issued in MYR, govt can always print MYR.

Btw u can also consider USD money market ETF as a defensive option.eg SHV.






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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 15 2022, 03:10 PM)
U should trust MGS more than any local MMF and even  FD tho..MGS issued in MYR, govt can always print MYR.

Btw u can also consider USD money market ETF as a defensive option.eg SHV.
*
I feel like that's part of the problem too tongue.gif Plus I don't like being "locked in" by direct bonds...
Cubalagi
post Feb 15 2022, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Feb 15 2022, 02:43 PM)
Just a quick one. Our EPF is mandated by law to deliver at least 2.5% return every year. Also, fund composition normally hovers around 50% equity, 45% bond, and 5% cash.

There's less discussion on incorporating EPF as part of our asset allocation. Our western counterpart have their 401k and IRA stuff alike. With penalty fee, they can withdraw their 401k earlier to meet extraordinary financial challenge like the pandemic. For us, there's no way to withdraw unless one decides to leave the country.

As our EPF fund is illiquid until age 55, I exclude them in my typical 70/30 asset allocation.
*
Agree with this.

For me, I also exclude my emergency fund.

Other deposits n financial investments I consider part of my 100%.
Pewufod
post Feb 15 2022, 04:06 PM

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thinking of creating an all weather equity portfolio with the below allocation via
60% cspx
20% smh
10% iefa
10% ieur

any comments ?
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post Feb 15 2022, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ Feb 15 2022, 01:25 PM)
You brought up a good point here. SA Simple / Versa or other MMF locally, their returns are kinda on par with international bond markets, right? I'm pulling this out of my ass probably, but last I checked US long-term treasury yield was 1.9x or 2.x%? If they're on par then perhaps Versa would work well
*
yea bond ETFs dividends are around 1-2%.
there's a chance to grow the investment, though really small even after many years.
also a risk to lose some % of original capital if it goes down.
Plus side is the ETFs we buy are in USD.. so can hedge against MYR if somehow our Ringgit drops in value further.

If invest in Stashaway Simple or Versa, plus side is there's no such risk of losing capital.
Downside of Versa is it is denominated in MYR
SS in MYR also, but downside is 3-5days to withdraw. doh.gif

In the end really depends on one's preference. smile.gif

For now with so many stocks and ETFs on discount.. I rather put money in those first. biggrin.gif
Once they start going up a lot then it is time we start putting more money in these bonds / MMF.

If older 60 yrs old + then good to focus more on FD, MMF, Bonds etc (at least 60% or so of portfolio) since we can't take as much risk to see market drop 30% or more in a month. REITs, good dividend stocks will then be the focus.. those defensive type stocks or ETFs (for remaining 40%). For older people keep add more FD, MMF, Bonds etc according to age.

If sick about to die then just sell everything and put in bank, ready the will to distribute to kids/charity etc. Can't bring money to grave. laugh.gif
(Just a suggestion I'm no financial expert here.)

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 16 2022, 08:39 AM
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post Feb 16 2022, 02:03 AM

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The Intelligent Investor’s Road to $1,000,000

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Feb 16 2022, 02:03 AM
SUSxander83
post Feb 16 2022, 05:04 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 15 2022, 08:49 AM)
just found out Malaysia's own popular MMF (money market fund) is Versa.. interest payment being bi-weekly and able to withdraw next day (if submit before 2.30pm business day) is great! It is also SC approved launched just last year in Malaysia.
downside is they invest using MYR it seems.

Stashaway simple would be using USD. However withdrawal part then really slow usually 3 days at least.  sweat.gif And interest payment only done once a month. Both Versa and Stashaway Simple has a projected retur

Just tested Versa with some small funds. Interface really clean. Find some referral code via google so that will get RM10 on first 100.
*
If you checks properly SS is in RM buying Amincome MMF doh.gif

Versa projected rate doesn’t mean you are getting it as it was dismal last year returning 1.8% so don’t expect a lot 7nless OPR increase every month doh.gif

QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Feb 15 2022, 09:06 AM)
Buying during pandemic? That shouldn't be too bad. (Why did u sell btw?)

The test for a real defensive asset is what happen if u bought before the pandemic/recession?

For eg. The Singapore REITs index dropped 30% in from Feb-March 2030, in line with the broader market. Basically kaput as well.
*
Selling because most of it already tripled while the upside low

Now looking into buying those beat up stocks brows.gif

QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 15 2022, 09:44 AM)
Likely he sold it coz he already made from the REITs from prev growth.

So right now use the money from the sale to buy more good stocks or ETF. They are on a discount now. Since these has a higher chance to grow and shoot to the moon once this downturn is over.

Once Fed stop increasing interest rates, that’s when you’ll see market return to normal. Maybe not as good as 2 years ago but definitely some growth that time.
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Already bought a lot last week when got beaten big time rclxms.gif
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post Feb 16 2022, 06:41 AM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Feb 16 2022, 05:04 AM)
If you checks properly SS is in RM buying Amincome MMF  doh.gif
Yea i checked again and it mentioned denomination is in MYR. Might as well choose Versa.

Let's see the new one by Kenanga is better or not.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 16 2022, 06:41 AM
SUSxander83
post Feb 16 2022, 06:46 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 16 2022, 06:41 AM)
Yea i checked again and it mentioned denomination is in MYR. Might as well choose Versa.

Let's see the new one by Kenanga is better or not.
*
Kenanga better in terms of 3% only for 2022 up to 200k but liquidity for sure slow doh.gif

Don’t bother Versa you better off putting into OCBC Flex as it is the most liquid and can withdraw anytime rclxms.gif
chiacp
post Feb 16 2022, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Feb 15 2022, 05:06 PM)
yea bond ETFs dividends are around 1-2%.
there's a chance to grow the investment, though really small even after many years.
also a risk to lose some % of original capital if it goes down.
Plus side is the ETFs we buy are in USD.. so can hedge against MYR if somehow our Ringgit drops in value further.

If invest in Stashaway Simple or Versa, plus side is there's no such risk of losing capital.
Downside of Versa is it is denominated in MYR
SS in USD, but downside is 3-5days to withdraw.  doh.gif 

In the end really depends on one's preference.  smile.gif

For now with so many stocks and ETFs on discount.. I rather put money in those first.  biggrin.gif
Once they start going up a lot then it is time we start putting more money in these bonds / MMF.

If older 60 yrs old + then good to focus more on FD, MMF, Bonds etc (at least 60% or so of portfolio) since we can't take as much risk to see market drop 30% or more in a month. REITs, good dividend stocks will then be the focus.. those defensive type stocks or ETFs (for remaining 40%). For older people keep add more FD, MMF, Bonds etc according to age.

If sick about to die then just sell everything and put in bank, ready the will to distribute to kids/charity etc. Can't bring money to grave.  laugh.gif
(Just a suggestion I'm no financial expert here.)
*
Hw about total wealth distribution between overseas and local funds? What's ur take on that?

This post has been edited by chiacp: Feb 16 2022, 07:42 AM
Davidtcf
post Feb 16 2022, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(chiacp @ Feb 16 2022, 07:42 AM)
Hw about total wealth distribution between overseas and local funds? What's ur take on that?
*
I'd prefer overseas.. my portfolio has SG and US stocks / Irish Domiciled ETFs denominated in USD (such as VUAA/CSPX, VWRA, etc).
SG focusing on good REITs.
Looking at bonds ETFs also in the future (USD denominated Irish domiciled such as AGGG/AGGU)
Our MYR keep going down so better to put in USD or SGD. (just my preference, I don't know the future if somehow MYR become stronger one day)

Bursa can have some also la, for me only Maybank stock and a few REITs just to earn high interest and ease of withdrawal.
Then local MMF fund (stashway simple, versa etc) in MYR denomination.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Feb 16 2022, 08:57 AM
Pewufod
post Feb 16 2022, 03:24 PM

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bond in the long run is guaranteed to underperform equity

better leave bonds to those financial institutions with financial obligations
Hoshiyuu
post Feb 24 2022, 05:05 PM

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Just a friendly reminder to everyone that, this too shall pass.

Stay the course.
TSalexkos
post Feb 24 2022, 05:08 PM

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Check your fixed income portion. Good luck to all.
naranjero P
post Mar 27 2022, 06:40 PM

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Hi everyone, I am quite a boglehead too. 60/40 VWRA+WSML+small amount of local mutual fund/AGGU+cash with 5% gold.

Normally where you guys park your cash? FD or money market? what are the good options to park cash?

My take on local vs international is incline to international as much as possible depending on size of money... since our EPF maybe already have around 35% in local market if not mistaken (and 15% international)

Been thinking about any accessible alternative asset in Malaysia can't find any good options. REITs, crypto, Rolex are not my type of game, hedge fund too high to climb...
naranjero P
post Mar 27 2022, 06:56 PM

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By the way I do believe index investing might be one of the most effective method of investing for general individual investor compare to many other method i.e. stock picking, market timing, trend trading etc unless we have enough tools to compete with big market player.

These two are my favorite books (sure most of you had already read) but it could be useful for newcomer:

Little Book of Common Sense Investing
Book by John C. Bogle

A Random Walk Down Wall Street
Book by Burton Malkiel

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Hoshiyuu
post Mar 27 2022, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Mar 27 2022, 06:40 PM)
Hi everyone, I am quite a boglehead too. 60/40 VWRA+WSML+small amount of local mutual fund/AGGU+cash with 5% gold.

Normally where you guys park your cash? FD or money market? what are the good options to park cash?

My take on local vs international is incline to international as much as possible depending on size of money... since our EPF maybe already have around 35% in local market if not mistaken (and 15% international)

Been thinking about any accessible alternative asset in Malaysia can't find any good options. REITs, crypto, Rolex are not my type of game, hedge fund too high to climb...
*
For what it's worth, I hold as little cash as possible so my safe-to-invest money is in the market as soon as possible. I don't hold any cash outside of my emergency fund and a little bit of spare spending money.

For my 6 month emergency fund, I currently hold them in KDI Save (3%), previously in Versa (~2.4%), both of which are MMFs with quick deposit and withdraw time. Some may strongly disagree that emergency fund should be accessible within minutes, FD is better suited for it, but I personally think 3 days max (weekend) is acceptable for me.

Personally, I agree with your line of thought and have also come to the conclusion that I want nothing to do with the local Malaysian market, so no Malaysian UTs, no Malaysia-listed stock for me. EPF is a big enough permanent MYR risk for me to handle.

So my stock allocation are 0% Malaysia, 60% US, 40% International ex-US... which is basically holding nothing but VWRA really. I do have a small amount of small-cap value tilt via AVDV and AVUV but they are 60:40 US:ex-US too.

I see zero reason to invest anything in Malaysia unless I somehow receive a significant sum of money to hold multiple properties in Malaysia at once (hah, keep dreaming), and I believe that REITs are mostly correlated to the stock market up and downs, dividend investing is just a misunderstood path that hurts your long term gain, and that I'm too young in my investing life to consider any bonds yet.

So, no REITs (local, SG or otherwise - I hold some through VWRA i guess? biggrin.gif), no fixed income ETF or dividend stocks, no bonds (yet - I will slowly pick up VAGU later on in my life)

I do however, dedicated 5% of my portfolio as play money. I just generally mess around and have fun with this money to scratch and satisfy whatever itch or FOMO I could possibly have. It's done it's job well and kept me on the course so far, so I do recommend this for those who are itchy handed.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Mar 27 2022, 07:40 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Mar 27 2022, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Mar 27 2022, 06:56 PM)
By the way I do believe index investing might be one of the most effective method of investing for general individual investor compare to many other method i.e. stock picking, market timing, trend trading etc unless we have enough tools to compete with big market player.

These two are my favorite books (sure most of you had already read) but it could be useful for newcomer:

Little Book of Common Sense Investing
Book by John C. Bogle

A Random Walk Down Wall Street
Book by Burton Malkiel
*
Broad-based index, yes, others, not so much. Many have been tempted with flavor of the month sector index recently...

Invest in the entire market, ride through its up and downs, grabbing onto the tailcoat of big players who can actually swing the market to their favor, and pickup the free breadcrumbs on the way. Might never be a billionaire, but I am more likely to have more than enough if I stay the course.

Great books and very commonly shared, but I believe ultimately too long to keep most Malaysian's attention, compared to a bad tiktok video promising 3000% gains or "conservatively, 20% APR interest yield" that no one can seem to properly explain where the money is coming from other than a zero sum game of passing bags.

I think JLCollin's stock series as well as it's book version, The Simple Path to Wealth is much shorter, much more laymen friendly, and if you drop the clearly labelled US-specific chapters, is a rather quick and short read to get everything you'll ever need. I personally found the Boglehead's path through this book.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Mar 27 2022, 07:38 PM
naranjero P
post Mar 28 2022, 03:49 PM

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thumbup.gif thumbup.gif Thanks, going to have a look in the KDI save.

I share similar view that REIT correlates just too much to the stock market, not worthy to be considered as different asset - a small amount in capital weighted index fund already done a good diversification.

Well said. Index investing are actually picking up the free breadcrumbs - almost like parasite - reaping small return without paying any effort to set the market price right.
Davidtcf
post Mar 28 2022, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Mar 28 2022, 03:49 PM)
thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif Thanks, going to have a look in the KDI save.

I share similar view that REIT correlates just too much to the stock market, not worthy to be considered as different asset - a small amount in capital weighted index fund already done a good diversification.

Well said. Index investing are actually picking up the free breadcrumbs - almost like parasite - reaping small return without paying any effort to set the market price right.
*
myself I will put some money into good stocks too. Good stocks has higher growth/returns than ETFs.

But mainly still focus ETFs such as VWRA, CSPX/VUAA to minimize my risk and ensure steady growth.

Also as I'm heading to late 30s now will put more money into lower risk income and inflation hedge investments such as bonds, reits, FD, etc. Some say ratio would be your age = low risk investment or -10 for low risk.
RigerZ
post Mar 28 2022, 10:28 PM

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Am I a Boglehead?

the financial philosophy of LBYM (live below your mean), - Yes

broad diversification (through index funds), - Not really. Mine's a mix of unit trust + stocks + stashaway + EPF + drop of crypto

asset allocation (balanced portion between equity and fixed income) - I think so?

with the ultimate aim of achieving financial independence. - not really my ultimate aim aha


Hoshiyuu
post Mar 29 2022, 02:22 AM

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QUOTE(RigerZ @ Mar 28 2022, 10:28 PM)
Am I a Boglehead?

the financial philosophy of LBYM (live below your mean), - Yes

broad diversification (through index funds),  - Not really. Mine's a mix of unit trust + stocks + stashaway + EPF + drop of crypto

asset allocation (balanced portion between equity and fixed income) - I think so?

with the ultimate aim of achieving financial independence. - not really my ultimate aim aha
*
I think that LBYM belongs in the general financial advice category and is heavily emphasized in the FI/RE community, and isn't part of Bogleism. However most FI/RE folks are also Bogleheads as it's the most predictable and most likely way to have a successful retirement/FI portfolio.

I believe that the core tenets of Bogleism lies in 1. Not timing the market 2. Invest via low-cost, broad-based index funds (i.e. buying the whole market, or as much of it as possible).

So by investing in unit trust (mostly high cost speculative sector/flavor/region tilting) or owning individual stocks, to me, it's really is a far cry from Bogleism.


blackchides
post Mar 29 2022, 02:59 AM

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Why so much allocation to ex-US by the way? I know the usual answer is diversification but reading some of the Boglehead forums out there, there's a school of thought for 100% US allocation as companies in those baskets would have global exposure anyway. And also US index has been outperforming international for the last 10-15 years, I believe.

My index portion of my portfolio right now is 100% VTI. My only non-US exposure is through Stashaway ETFs.
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(blackchides @ Mar 29 2022, 02:59 AM)
Why so much allocation to ex-US by the way? I know the usual answer is diversification but reading some of the Boglehead forums out there, there's a school of thought for 100% US allocation as companies in those baskets would have global exposure anyway. And also US index has been outperforming international for the last 10-15 years, I believe.

My index portion of my portfolio right now is 100% VTI.  My only non-US exposure is through Stashaway ETFs.
*
Winners rotate after all. US index outperformance through this massive long rally is the primary reason some of us including myself to go for VT/VWRA instead.
While some US investor including the famed Buffett has been repeatedly quoted "Never bet against the US" - a significant amount of Bogleheads do see the US concentration as uncompensated risk and opt for market weight instead. (Reddit's Boglehead community default advice is quite often not to buy pure SP500 or VTI)

Is 60:40 a lot? Considering 60% of VT/VWRA holding is US and only 40% is "all other eligible countries" - most would consider they are significantly US overweight instead. Some investor I know from this board alone adds VXUS to keep their US allocation even lower than market weight.

Of course, given a long enough investing period, any of SP500, VTI, VT and a good amount of bonds will all work just fine, as long they stay the course.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Mar 29 2022, 12:35 PM
naranjero P
post Mar 29 2022, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(blackchides @ Mar 29 2022, 02:59 AM)
Why so much allocation to ex-US by the way? I know the usual answer is diversification but reading some of the Boglehead forums out there, there's a school of thought for 100% US allocation as companies in those baskets would have global exposure anyway. And also US index has been outperforming international for the last 10-15 years, I believe.

My index portion of my portfolio right now is 100% VTI.  My only non-US exposure is through Stashaway ETFs.
*
I am in another school - why avoid international?
US index has been outperforming -- thats is the past. Nobody can predict the future, how certain we are the US can continue to exceed the expectation(not perform as expected as it is already price in, to earn extra profit it should exceed investor expectation), or the center of global economy would be shifting to somewhere else in coming 10-15 years? I guess for now keeping 60 US : 40 international is fair enough just as market capitalization weighted, no matter how the winner rotates it wont affect us too much.
Davidtcf
post Mar 31 2022, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(blackchides @ Mar 29 2022, 02:59 AM)
Why so much allocation to ex-US by the way? I know the usual answer is diversification but reading some of the Boglehead forums out there, there's a school of thought for 100% US allocation as companies in those baskets would have global exposure anyway. And also US index has been outperforming international for the last 10-15 years, I believe.

My index portion of my portfolio right now is 100% VTI.  My only non-US exposure is through Stashaway ETFs.
*
coz US so far performing well. It's your money so up to you. If don't believe in US then choose VWRA for all world ETF.

Fund manager will help you rebalance and more options for them if VWRA.

If we got crystal ball can see future, then we can safely choose what to invest in.. in reality we don't have that power. So all of us taking some risks here and there too when it involves the stock market. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Mar 31 2022, 10:41 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 1 2022, 04:52 PM

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Not sure if this is the right forum to ask.

Any comments regarding cspx vs vuaa?

Just curious what are the sifus here feedback.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 1 2022, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 1 2022, 04:52 PM)
Not sure if this is the right forum to ask.

Any comments regarding cspx vs vuaa?

Just curious what are the sifus here feedback.
*
Same underlying product, same expense ratio, one by iShares, one by Vanguard. iShares will have better spread and liquidity, as well as a bigger fund size, but it doesn't matter much if you are a buy once a month and hold person.

VUAA share size is much smaller, so much more easier for us to own, personally, I'll go for VUAA just for the granularity. But if you are saving up and buying quarterly, then it's completely preference.

Of course, both are subjected to SP500 usual pro and cons.
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post Apr 1 2022, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 1 2022, 05:01 PM)
Same underlying product, same expense ratio, one by iShares, one by Vanguard. iShares will have better spread and liquidity, as well as a bigger fund size, but it doesn't matter much if you are a buy once a month and hold person.

VUAA share size is much smaller, so much more easier for us to own, personally, I'll go for VUAA just for the granularity. But if you are saving up and buying quarterly, then it's completely preference.

Of course, both are subjected to SP500 usual pro and cons.
*
I see. Thanks.

With USD and MYR forex rate. It will be half a year kind a thing. Haha
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 1 2022, 06:34 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 1 2022, 05:50 PM)
I see. Thanks.

With USD and MYR forex rate. It will be half a year kind a thing. Haha
*
Yeap, CSPX hits a pain point for your average Malaysian, so VUAA is such a massive help when it debuted for those who want to focus on SP500. There's plenty of old discussion for more details on CSPX if you are curious on Alex's other thread, [DIY] S&P 500 Index w/ 0.07% Annual Fee, Buy the best companies in the world .

AthrunIJ
post Apr 1 2022, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 1 2022, 06:34 PM)
Yeap, CSPX hits a pain point for your average Malaysian, so VUAA is such a massive help when it debuted for those who want to focus on SP500. There's plenty of old discussion for more details on CSPX if you are curious on Alex's other thread, [DIY] S&P 500 Index w/ 0.07% Annual Fee, Buy the best companies in the world .
*
Well, I am leaning towards VUAA as lower priced which I am able to buy more shares. Since all things considered constant. Seems like the logical thing to do. However it seems like I am missing something. 👀
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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 1 2022, 06:43 PM)
Well, I am leaning towards VUAA as lower priced which I am able to buy more shares. Since all things considered constant. Seems like the logical thing to do. However it seems like I am missing something. 👀
*
Not much really. Both Vanguards and iShares are long running, reputable organizations - you are buying the ETF, so you wouldn't need to worry too much about customer support concern of either company, both are Irish domiciled, so you only pay 15% withholding tax and the small details will be handled by the underlying ETF manager, they both share the same fees, and market maker will ensure liquidity even if the volume is low. Spread will be slightly worse, but hardly a concern if you are buy and hold.

Is there anything particular in mind?
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 27 2022, 07:30 PM)
For my 6 month emergency fund, I currently hold them in KDI Save (3%), previously in Versa (~2.4%), both of which are MMFs with quick deposit and withdraw time. Some may strongly disagree that emergency fund should be accessible within minutes, FD is better suited for it, but I personally think 3 days max (weekend) is acceptable for me.
*
Why not crypto staking? Higher % and can be accessed within 15 minutes.
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 1 2022, 07:33 PM)
Not much really. Both Vanguards and iShares are long running, reputable organizations - you are buying the ETF, so you wouldn't need to worry too much about customer support concern of either company, both are Irish domiciled, so you only pay 15% withholding tax and the small details will be handled by the underlying ETF manager, they both share the same fees, and market maker will ensure liquidity even if the volume is low. Spread will be slightly worse, but hardly a concern if you are buy and hold.

Is there anything particular in mind?
*
Not actually sure. Just something bugging me like I am missing something. But so far. Seems fine for both.

Probably just want to be sure before buying via international broker. 😆
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post Apr 1 2022, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 1 2022, 06:43 PM)
Well, I am leaning towards VUAA as lower priced which I am able to buy more shares. Since all things considered constant. Seems like the logical thing to do. However it seems like I am missing something. 👀
*
VUAA is for poorer ppl like me to buy.. since cost wise cheaper. CSPX cost of entry is high.. if got some spare change after converting also hard to buy.

VUAA one day will catch up to CSPX liquidity trust me. Vanguard is more popular than iShares.

The difference now is liquidity.. which CSPX is more liquid since longer time in market. If you don’t sell often don’t have to worry. As for buy wise don’t rush when buying.. set at reasonable price and willing to wait. If see current price too high (high spike) then wait a few more hours come back.. likely it will drop down to cheaper price for VUAA.

If true boglehead don’t wanna time then set it to market price and just get in. TradingView is a good free tool to see current market price for ETF or stock.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 1 2022, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 07:34 PM)
Why not crypto staking? Higher % and can be accessed within 15 minutes.
*
Well, I have a few reasons, some of them may be misguided, but I'm happy to be corrected.

I don't like the idea that there is too much choices, and every one of them have different underlying crypto, and every underlying crypto other than the big 2-3 always feel like its a zero-sum game looking for the next bagholder. I don't want my emergency fund to be worth 50% less on the day I need them the most, I'd have 2 big problem on the worst day of my life. I just can't trust the money will be there for me when I need it.

Secondly, I am not familiar enough with them - I don't know which ramps to trust, I don't know which ramps are available and safe, and whether will it suddenly all crash down and every crypto I've received (even if I sent them myself) is considered income according to LHDN and I wake up one day owning massive amount of tax because I didn't do my paperwork perfectly. I am also not sure about the fees, I don't like that if you jump through 2-3 different hoops you can get a sweeter deal (atom arbitrage for example).
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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 1 2022, 07:41 PM)
Not actually sure. Just something bugging me like I am missing something. But so far. Seems fine for both.

Probably just want to be sure before buying via international broker. 😆
*
Worried is good, being worried save you headache later on when the problem can't be solved by just worrying.

Accept that you will need to pay tuition fees - not in terms of losing money because you gambled on the wrong stock or anything - but simply due to the fact that you need to build confidence and confirm your route. Check your commissions and fees and see if it match what other reports but don't try to save them too hard when testing the waters.

Don't one shot remit 2 months of your salary and be scared shitless when both parties say they don't have your money - don't one shot buy everything at once to save $2 of commission but found out you used market order and it filled at a weird price because it just so happens to be market open or something just happened. Don't put money you can't afford to lose and be dead worried about what others think of you when you are losing money 3 months in and it feels bad.

Start small, put 50, 100 through the route. If they are successful, save them as favourites and all that, and base your transaction on those. Buy the lowest amount of share, be comfortable with the many warning messages IBKR will warn you along the way, slowly figure out the interface.

Once you build confidence, once you confirmed your way works, then you should have less "unknown unknowns" that is at the back of your mind, and you wouldn't have to worry what happened to your money when you go to bed.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 1 2022, 08:27 PM
Davidtcf
post Apr 1 2022, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 07:34 PM)
Why not crypto staking? Higher % and can be accessed within 15 minutes.
*
Crypto is the most volatile asset, even more so than Forex.

Also staking has chance of the underlying fund doing a rugpull, disappear, get hacked etc and your cryptos lost with it since they are the custodian.

I bought crypto end of last year at their all time high. Lost 50% of value and have not recovered since then (after China ban). Any big news like China’s ban will trigger another sell off.. most ppl can’t take such losses in such a short time. Also crypto trading is 24/7. Even weekends can’t rip esp if own a lot of them.

Most ppl say don’t own more than 10% crypto of your entire portfolio.. I can see why.

In 50 years crypto might be very valuable.. or just fail and most cryptos disappear. Nobody knows since they are pure speculative. So would also suggest if wanna buy also go for famous ones like BTC, ETH good enough. At least they have higher value. Going for less known ones is high risk.. you’ll need to monitor them often.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 1 2022, 08:29 PM
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post Apr 1 2022, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 1 2022, 08:17 PM)
Well, I have a few reasons, some of them may be misguided, but I'm happy to be corrected.

I don't like the idea that there is too much choices, and every one of them have different underlying crypto, and every underlying crypto other than the big 2-3 always feel like its a zero-sum game looking for the next bagholder. I don't want my emergency fund to be worth 50% less on the day I need them the most, I'd have 2 big problem on the worst day of my life. I just can't trust the money will be there for me when I need it.

Secondly, I am not familiar enough with them - I don't know which ramps to trust, I don't know which ramps are available and safe, and whether will it suddenly all crash down and every crypto I've received (even if I sent them myself) is considered income according to LHDN and I wake up one day owning massive amount of tax because I didn't do my paperwork perfectly. I am also not sure about the fees, I don't like that if you jump through 2-3 different hoops you can get a sweeter deal (atom arbitrage for example).
*
Happy to see your reasoning. If you are keen on it I'll suggest you to read more on stablecoin staking (USDT, USDC). I have my assets in USDT-USDC pool sitting on a sweet 20% APY. Some of it is in UST Anchor protocol getting 19%+ APY as well. But anyway if you have more questions feel free to shoot me a PM. I don't want to derail the discussion on Index fund investment.

Oh not sure if I can be considered bogglehead? I have $20,000 options in SPY 600D strike $5,000.

QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 1 2022, 08:26 PM)
Crypto is the most volatile asset, even more so than Forex.

Also staking has chance of the underlying fund doing a rugpull, disappear, get hacked etc and your cryptos lost with it since they are the custodian.

I bought crypto end of last year at their all time high. Lost 50% of value and have not recovered since then (after China ban). Any big news like China’s ban will trigger another sell off.. most ppl can’t take such losses in such a short time. Also crypto trading is 24/7. Even weekends can’t rip esp if own a lot of them.

Most ppl say don’t own more than 10% crypto of your entire portfolio.. I can see why.

In 50 years crypto might be very valuable.. or just fail and most cryptos disappear. Nobody knows. So would also suggest if wanna buy also go for famous ones like BTC, ETH good enough. At least they have higher value. Going for less known ones is high risk.. you’ll need to monitor them often.
*

Crypto is volatile if you choose to stake non stables/blue chips.
If you choose stablecoins then you are literally pegging your asset/investment value to US dollars, and since we are on this topic, your investment is in USD anyway. smile.gif
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post Apr 1 2022, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 08:34 PM)
Crypto is volatile if you choose to stake non stables/blue chips.
If you choose stablecoins then you are literally pegging your asset/investment value to US dollars, and since we are on this topic, your investment is in USD anyway.  smile.gif
*
I would not convert all my crypto to Stablecoins. Never know when the next spike would have increasing BTC value by double? Hence I’d want to be ready for that.

Right now I converted my ETH and LTC to BTC and store them at Nexo. Then lock in one month each time earning in Nexo. After one mth convert just enough Nexo to BTC to still keep that platinum membership for higher interest.
That is my plan on keeping BTC now. Till I manage to recover or profit from my previous investment.

For new ppl buying into staking. If they don’t mind the high risk then go ahead. Many other articles warning ppl about dangers of staking.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 1 2022, 08:47 PM
Icehart
post Apr 1 2022, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 1 2022, 08:46 PM)
I would not convert all my crypto to Stablecoins. Never know when the next spike would have increasing BTC value by double? Hence I’d want to be ready for that.

Right now I converted my ETH and LTC to BTC and store them at Nexo. Then lock in one month each time earning in Nexo. After one mth convert just enough Nexo to BTC to still keep that platinum membership for higher interest.
That is my plan on keeping BTC now. Till I manage to recover or profit from my previous investment.

For new ppl buying into staking. If they don’t mind the high risk then go ahead. Many other articles warning ppl about dangers of staking.
*
Good for you.
My original suggestion of stablecoins staking is not for investment, but rather for the purpose of emergency 6 months cash that can be withdrawn and used immediately, yet still enjoy relatively high APY.

Can you show me some articles on the danger of staking, just to see if I've missed anything.

This post has been edited by Icehart: Apr 1 2022, 08:50 PM
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post Apr 1 2022, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 08:34 PM)
Oh not sure if I can be considered bogglehead? I have $20,000 options in SPY 600D strike $5,000.
*
Wait SPY $5000? You mean $500 strike? That's like a LEAPS strategy right?
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QUOTE(cucumber @ Apr 1 2022, 09:13 PM)
Wait SPY $5000? You mean $500 strike? That's like a LEAPS strategy right?
*
Sorry, yes you are right. $500 strike price when SPY index hits 5000.
Yeah it's LEAPS strategy.
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post Apr 1 2022, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 08:49 PM)
Good for you.
My original suggestion of stablecoins staking is not for investment, but rather for the purpose of emergency 6 months cash that can be withdrawn and used immediately, yet still enjoy relatively high APY.

Can you show me some articles on the danger of staking, just to see if I've missed anything.
*
Also if u compare with MMF funds, staking is dealing with volatility of crypto also.. when they lose value what you stake will lose value in its entirety.

Other dangers listed in articles such as these. So yes once again much higher risk. Stablecoins sure less volatility, what if the crypto get stolen like so many news we heard getting hacked etc?
https://trustwallet.com/blog/top-7-risks-of-staking-crypto

An article about stablecoins. Threats from regulators and its long term sustainability:
https://www.france24.com/en/technology/2022...-global-markets

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 1 2022, 09:47 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 1 2022, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 08:34 PM)
Happy to see your reasoning. If you are keen on it I'll suggest you to read more on stablecoin staking (USDT, USDC). I have my assets in USDT-USDC pool sitting on a sweet 20% APY. Some of it is in UST Anchor protocol getting 19%+ APY as well. But anyway if you have more questions feel free to shoot me a PM. I don't want to derail the discussion on Index fund investment.

Oh not sure if I can be considered bogglehead? I have $20,000 options in SPY 600D strike $5,000.
Crypto is volatile if you choose to stake non stables/blue chips.
If you choose stablecoins then you are literally pegging your asset/investment value to US dollars, and since we are on this topic, your investment is in USD anyway.  smile.gif
*
Really appreciate the reply! Actually, both my reasoning are almost entirely lasered on UST staking via ANC (Hence the reference to ATOM).

If you can afford the spare time, I would very much welcome that we take it to the DMs, I'd be more than happy to learn about your ramps and method. I've considered it a few time and I do have a play-money allocation to test this sort of item out. When I've read it up, it seems like the 20% APY is not sustainable and no one could explain to me who is forking out the 20% interest rate, and I am very curious how are the fees like for small transactions. Plus, I'm trying to understand how can UST stay pegged to USD should Terra goes to 0 for whatever reason, too.

-

I believe that a Boglehead invest primarily if not only in low-cost, broad based index fund, trading options on a broad based index surely doesn't count, both the commissions/fees involved and the risk are much higher, and relatively more active.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 1 2022, 10:59 PM
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post Apr 2 2022, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 1 2022, 08:25 PM)
Worried is good, being worried save you headache later on when the problem can't be solved by just worrying.

Accept that you will need to pay tuition fees - not in terms of losing money because you gambled on the wrong stock or anything - but simply due to the fact that you need to build confidence and confirm your route. Check your commissions and fees and see if it match what other reports but don't try to save them too hard when testing the waters.

Don't one shot remit 2 months of your salary and be scared shitless when both parties say they don't have your money - don't one shot buy everything at once to save $2 of commission but found out you used market order and it filled at a weird price because it just so happens to be market open or something just happened. Don't put money you can't afford to lose and be dead worried about what others think of you when you are losing money 3 months in and it feels bad.

Start small, put 50, 100 through the route. If they are successful, save them as favourites and all that, and base your transaction on those. Buy the lowest amount of share, be comfortable with the many warning messages IBKR will warn you along the way, slowly figure out the interface.

Once you build confidence, once you confirmed your way works, then you should have less "unknown unknowns" that is at the back of your mind, and you wouldn't have to worry what happened to your money when you go to bed.
*
Yep, already transfer fund to IBKR via wise successfully USD150.

Later just waiting for bonus and EPF to buy vuaa.

Also got your hint regarding market and limit order. I changed it to limit order as it is what I do in local burse.

Thanks for info so far

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 2 2022, 12:23 AM
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post Apr 2 2022, 09:27 AM

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Glad to see some fine tinkering on asset allocation happening here.

What suggestion would you give to a Malaysian who prefer the passive investing method of John Bogle but prefer that his exposure only in ringgit? Can be any global diversified asset, but must be denominated in ringgit, and preferably these fund houses and etfs are Malaysian home grown too.

Thank you.
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QUOTE(alexkos @ Apr 2 2022, 09:27 AM)
Glad to see some fine tinkering on asset allocation happening here.

What suggestion would you give to a Malaysian who prefer the passive investing method of John Bogle but prefer that his exposure only in ringgit? Can be any global diversified asset, but must be denominated in ringgit, and preferably these fund houses and etfs are Malaysian home grown too.

Thank you.
*
Bursa related ETF?

Got a few with China, REIT, Gold, ASEAN Dividend or Malaysia Momentum

Only buy when it is 52/week low with Bursa promotion rclxms.gif
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 2 2022, 11:35 AM)
Bursa related ETF?

Got a few with China, REIT, Gold, ASEAN Dividend or Malaysia Momentum

Only buy when it is 52/week low with Bursa promotion  rclxms.gif
*
Market timing, sector tilting, region tilting, factor tilting. All that Jack Bogle warned against.

It's okay to do so, but that's not the Bogleheads way.
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QUOTE(alexkos @ Apr 2 2022, 09:27 AM)
Glad to see some fine tinkering on asset allocation happening here.

What suggestion would you give to a Malaysian who prefer the passive investing method of John Bogle but prefer that his exposure only in ringgit? Can be any global diversified asset, but must be denominated in ringgit, and preferably these fund houses and etfs are Malaysian home grown too.

Thank you.
*
It has to be low cost, so unit trust are already fully out; It has to be broad-based, so Bursa's out too. The closest acceptable thing would be Roboadvisors, while I can hardly recommend any of them, a few of them do hold primarily VT or SP500 with a healthy amount of bonds or stable assets even at the highest risk portfolios.

Can't really have exposure only in Ringgit, that'd limit the person to Malaysian funds, which have a massive currency risk and political risk. International funds traded via converting MYR to something else immediately before buying could hardly count as MYR exposure, and Ringgit denominated ETF listed on Bursa are all of rather questionable and concentrated with uncompensated risk...

Really can't provide much alternative there, this is simply not a way to invest that's popular in Malaysia...people don't want to get rich slow, in general.
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 2 2022, 12:00 PM)
Market timing, sector tilting, region tilting, factor tilting. All that Jack Bogle warned against.

It's okay to do so, but that's not the Bogleheads way.
*
Can’t help it if one wanted RM denominated ETF doh.gif

QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 2 2022, 01:20 PM)
It has to be low cost, so unit trust are already fully out; It has to be broad-based, so Bursa's out too. The closest acceptable thing would be Roboadvisors, while I can hardly recommend any of them, a few of them do hold primarily VT or SP500 with a healthy amount of bonds or stable assets even at the highest risk portfolios.

Can't really have exposure only in Ringgit, that'd limit the person to Malaysian funds, which have a massive currency risk and political risk. International funds traded via converting MYR to something else immediately before buying could hardly count as MYR exposure, and Ringgit denominated ETF listed on Bursa are all of rather questionable and concentrated with uncompensated risk...

Really can't provide much alternative there, this is simply not a way to invest that's popular in Malaysia...people don't want to get rich slow, in general.
*
WHich is why’s ETF are traded mostly in USD as the currency stable and not to subject to massively fluctuations

Most Bursa ETF except Gold are basically rubbish because are questionable because low volume trading and market makers most of the t8me are subject to raise prices by price fixing doh.gif
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post Apr 2 2022, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 1 2022, 08:49 PM)
Good for you.
My original suggestion of stablecoins staking is not for investment, but rather for the purpose of emergency 6 months cash that can be withdrawn and used immediately, yet still enjoy relatively high APY.

Can you show me some articles on the danger of staking, just to see if I've missed anything.
*
Also note the 20% APY is not sustainable:
https://wantfi.com/terra-luna-anchor-protoc...it-pay-20-yield

This youtuber also mention the more people stake in something the less its interest will be later on (4:27)


I'll stick to the usual ETF and stocks. Possible to have returns of 20% or even more a year or in two years time if you pick the right ones. Much more secured as well.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 2 2022, 07:44 PM
Icehart
post Apr 2 2022, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 2 2022, 07:42 PM)
I'll stick to the usual ETF and stocks. Possible to have returns of 20% or even more a year or in two years time if you pick the right ones. Much more secured as well.
*
Well good for you. Not forcing anyone here but am just offering an alternative to those who are keen to explore further.
Just to reiterate once more, this staking is not an investment advice (short/medium/long), but a suggestion on alternative to earn yield from "emergency funds" that you're allocating for 6 months and more.
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post Apr 2 2022, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Apr 2 2022, 09:18 PM)
Well good for you. Not forcing anyone here but am just offering an alternative to those who are keen to explore further.
Just to reiterate once more, this staking is not an investment advice (short/medium/long), but a suggestion on alternative to earn yield from "emergency funds" that you're allocating for 6 months and more.
*
Well the emergency funds' capital need to be guaranteed. From what I read in staking it's a grey area.

If more to investing (willing to take risk) than yes can consider staking.
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 2 2022, 10:27 PM)
Well the emergency funds' capital need to be guaranteed. From what I read in staking it's a grey area.

If more to investing (willing to take risk) than yes can consider staking.
*
You can split into USDT/USDC/UDC pool if you're afraid of UST risk.
But still quoting from the article you provided, even the author has put in UST to stake in Anchor now, at least until 2 weeks before the yield reserve dries up.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 2 2022, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 2 2022, 07:42 PM)
Also note the 20% APY is not sustainable:
https://wantfi.com/terra-luna-anchor-protoc...it-pay-20-yield

This youtuber also mention the more people stake in something the less its interest will be later on (4:27)

I'll stick to the usual ETF and stocks. Possible to have returns of 20% or even more a year or in two years time if you pick the right ones. Much more secured as well.
*
Thanks for the sharing the video!

Also, that's a really bold claim, I personally expects 5-10% overall returns at good scenarios, so if you told me a stock or ETF would return 20% or even more, the first thing I do would be walk away from it out of my personal warnings - would you mind sharing? I'm curious now.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 2 2022, 11:11 PM
SUSxander83
post Apr 3 2022, 03:46 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 2 2022, 07:42 PM)
Also note the 20% APY is not sustainable:
https://wantfi.com/terra-luna-anchor-protoc...it-pay-20-yield

This youtuber also mention the more people stake in something the less its interest will be later on (4:27)


I'll stick to the usual ETF and stocks. Possible to have returns of 20% or even more a year or in two years time if you pick the right ones. Much more secured as well.
*
Cake Defi for child’s play doh.gif

Real person play options instead rclxms.gif

For us ETF is to protect your capital while stocks you stake your skills to win big time rclxms.gif
Davidtcf
post Apr 3 2022, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 2 2022, 10:58 PM)
Thanks for the sharing the video!

Also, that's a really bold claim, I personally expects 5-10% overall returns at good scenarios, so if you told me a stock or ETF would return 20% or even more, the first thing I do would be walk away from it out of my personal warnings - would you mind sharing? I'm curious now.
*
Just look at Tesla stock.. In one year return is 56%.

This year we got hit quite bad. Hence why I said 2 years.

user posted image

Google 26%

user posted image

VUAA or CSPX gave 20%+ last year when I check. Early of the year wiped out much gains due to fed announcement. Let's see end of year how much it will rise. VWRA likely give lower around 10-15% a year.

But of course with stocks and ETF you gotta sell before you see the returns. If don't need the money then just hold on. If can keep 5 years or more then will earn even more. Put stop loss (sell at "stop"/"stop limit") if want to cash out in case they drop too much later on, after holding at least one to two years in it.

Not every market can hit 20%. Bursa stocks will be hard. SG market got growth but still not as high as US ETF or stocks.

Articles on this:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/inves...act-economy.asp

https://groww.in/blog/things-to-know-about-us-stock-market

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/27/warren-buff...sed-assets.html

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 3 2022, 11:37 AM
sgh
post Apr 3 2022, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 3 2022, 03:46 AM)
For us ETF is to protect your capital while stocks you stake your skills to win big time  rclxms.gif
*
It can be lose big time too so it is always two sides. I see so many investors in other forum complain about their losses on China stocks listed in US stock exchanges. The interest in accessing China A shares and HKEX gaining traction there.

Bogleheads? Has quite strict definition and a lot of investment would be out including mutual fund. Even sector theme ETF are out as they are pursuing low cost index tracking funds and only a few will do. I cannot. How can I eat economy rice with same 3 dishes every day for years? I like noodles actually, rice is just to fill stomach.
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post Apr 3 2022, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 3 2022, 11:38 AM)
It can be lose big time too so it is always two sides. I see so many investors in other forum complain about their losses on China stocks listed in US stock exchanges. The interest in accessing China A shares and HKEX gaining traction there.

Bogleheads? Has quite strict definition and a lot of investment would be out including mutual fund. Even sector theme ETF are out as they are pursuing low cost index tracking funds and only a few will do. I cannot. How can I eat economy rice with same 3 dishes every day for years? I like noodles actually, rice is just to fill stomach.
*
Agree. Options is complex and high entry requirement (100 shares and some need margin account). Predict wrong or something unexpected happens then bye bye to earnings. Might need fork out extra cash too.
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post Apr 3 2022, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 3 2022, 11:38 AM)
It can be lose big time too so it is always two sides. I see so many investors in other forum complain about their losses on China stocks listed in US stock exchanges. The interest in accessing China A shares and HKEX gaining traction there.

Bogleheads? Has quite strict definition and a lot of investment would be out including mutual fund. Even sector theme ETF are out as they are pursuing low cost index tracking funds and only a few will do. I cannot. How can I eat economy rice with same 3 dishes every day for years? I like noodles actually, rice is just to fill stomach.
*
THOse who are crying losses doesn’t understand how ADRs works which is why they got sucked in by buying it doh.gif

Always buy something directly related to it rather buying proxy doh.gif

QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 3 2022, 04:27 PM)
Agree. Options is complex and high entry requirement (100 shares and some need margin account). Predict wrong or something unexpected happens then bye bye to earnings. Might need fork out extra cash too.
*
AS long as you are willing to lose when predict wrong that’s fine but if margin involves then a lot of covering losses instead doh.gif
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 3 2022, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 3 2022, 11:30 AM)
Just look at Tesla stock.. In one year return is 56%.

This year we got hit quite bad. Hence why I said 2 years.

user posted image

Google 26%

user posted image

VUAA or CSPX gave 20%+ last year when I check. Early of the year wiped out much gains due to fed announcement. Let's see end of year how much it will rise. VWRA likely give lower around 10-15% a year.

But of course with stocks and ETF you gotta sell before you see the returns. If don't need the money then just hold on. If can keep 5 years or more then will earn even more. Put stop loss (sell at "stop"/"stop limit") if want to cash out in case they drop too much later on, after holding at least one to two years in it.

Not every market can hit 20%. Bursa stocks will be hard. SG market got growth but still not as high as US ETF or stocks.

Articles on this:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/inves...act-economy.asp

https://groww.in/blog/things-to-know-about-us-stock-market

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/27/warren-buff...sed-assets.html
*
Ah, you were referring to single year swings, I've misunderstood, my bad. I thought you were referring to 5+ year averages.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 3 2022, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 3 2022, 11:38 AM)
It can be lose big time too so it is always two sides. I see so many investors in other forum complain about their losses on China stocks listed in US stock exchanges. The interest in accessing China A shares and HKEX gaining traction there.

Bogleheads? Has quite strict definition and a lot of investment would be out including mutual fund. Even sector theme ETF are out as they are pursuing low cost index tracking funds and only a few will do. I cannot. How can I eat economy rice with same 3 dishes every day for years? I like noodles actually, rice is just to fill stomach.
*
That would imply there exist many investments opportunities out there who will consistently beat the market average over time, and that investing the Boglehead's way is a compromise, to accept a life of poverty and unsatisfied living.

Both are historically false, but who can say for the future? Until the field of mathematical finance prove otherwise, I feel safer not gambling away my hard earned money.
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post Apr 3 2022, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 3 2022, 05:40 PM)
Both are historically false, but who can say for the future? Until the field of mathematical finance prove otherwise, I feel safer not gambling away my hard earned money.
Some oldbirds told me many years ago when I started investment "only invest with monies you can afford to lose" else just stick to bank FD and other lower return but capital guaranteed investment instruments. There is hardly any high returns capital guaranteed instruments and via legal means of cuz.

Many years later that sentence still hold true based on my experience.
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 09:02 AM

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So how do bogleheads choose their ETF of choice?

I have limited fund and around 3 or 4 ETFs to invest in.

VUAA, VWRA, SWRD.

My plan is to just invest straight into one of them probably hit the goal then rotate to the other ETFs.

Or can get some advice from sifus here. 👀😬

Some info regarding my portfolio.
SA - RM60k (include simple)
Local burse - RM85k
Soon International ETFs - RM10k

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 4 2022, 09:03 AM
Cubalagi
post Apr 4 2022, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 3 2022, 06:17 PM)
Some oldbirds told me many years ago when I started investment "only invest with monies you can afford to lose" else just stick to bank FD and other lower return but capital guaranteed investment instruments. There is hardly any high returns capital guaranteed instruments and via legal means of cuz.

Many years later that sentence still hold true based on my experience.
*
That will result in an extremely conservative portfolio wouldn't it?


Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 09:02 AM)
So how do bogleheads choose their ETF of choice?

I have limited fund and around 3 or 4 ETFs to invest in.

VUAA, VWRA, SWRD.

My plan is to just invest straight into one of them probably hit the goal then rotate to the other ETFs.

Or can get some advice from sifus here. 👀😬

Some info regarding my portfolio.
SA - RM60k (include simple)
Local burse - RM85k
Soon International ETFs - RM10k
*

The goal is to buy the entire haystack, not look for a needle in it that's outperforming.

For classic American Bogleheads, it's simple, the equities part of the portfolio is either VT (~9300 stocks globally, Large,Mid,Small caps by market weight) which auto balances to roughly 60US:40ex-US, or VTI (US total market)+VXUS (ex-US total market) at their preferred ratio.

For us Malaysians, due to withholding tax concerns and that there is no direct VT and VTI+VXUS equivalent, we often buy their Irish-domiciled equivalent ETFs to mimic the portfolio. From there, we decide what kind of coverage we want.

VWRA/VWRD (Recommended):
=Less stock due to missing small caps, but still holds 85% of the invest-able market cap.
+Single ticker portfolio possible
+Overall higher return overtime compared to VT due to 15% withholding tax

VWRD+WSML(Developed countries small caps):
+Covers Global large and mid caps and developed countries small caps
-Lacks emerging market small caps

VWRD+WSML+EIMI
(Emerging market all caps):
+Almost fully replicates VT
-Terrible for rebalancing

For me personally, I strongly recommend VWRA and chill - one ticker, 0 rebalance troubles, save transaction cost.
However, I should put out a disclaimer that my actual portfolio is VWRA (80%), AVUV(9%), AVDV(6%), Others (5%) and I do strongly recommend against this portfolio.
AVUV and AVDV are my choices due to Avantis's factor filtered small caps have empirical evidence that it out performs general market-weighted small cap ETFs. They are however US-domiciled, but the re-balancing cost is low and dividends is not much of a concern for small caps stocks.

So that is how I've come to the conclusion to what I hold.

--------

Why I dont hold X:


Stashaway:

Actively managed funds with high fees (0.7% a year for my level), severely underperforms everything, could not commit to their portfolio and high turnover for what is touted as passive investing.
After I've started my DIY portfolio, Stashaway has zero value to me at all angles and I've fully dropped it.

Local bursa:
The notable companies in Bursa is also already included in VWRA.
Furthermore, Bursa has spent the last 20 years trading sideways with 0 improvement, gains come from swings but not overall market growth, political and currency risk threatens it everyday, and a strong, consistent foreign fund outflow meant it's hopeless eventually. Not to mention the trading costs are ironically higher than foreign stocks. Strong pass, I will not waste my time and money here.

VUAA/CSPX/SP500:

Insanely overvalued, too concentrated. Winners rotate and historically speaking, US and ex-US market take turns winning. I'll play on both sides instead of betting US will win forever and maintain my average returns. If I am buying the haystack anyway, why limit myself to only parts of the haystack? And for those who love tech stocks, no AMD, no TSMC, no TencentBaba here.

SWRD:
obsolete in my portfolio due to superior VWRA holdings, and if I buy both, they overlap quite much and will overweight a lot of stocks in my portfolio (VWRA tracks FTSE, SWRD tracks MSCI, it's generally not good to track multiple overlapping indexes).

--------

Finally, fees, fees, fees.
It's very important, so I'll repeat it 3 times.

Every ringgit that doesn't end up in your portfolio is potentially 10 ringgit that has gone into the shitter. This is why everyone should be extremely vary of the percentage based on going cost.
If the market is down bad and returns barely 2% a year, 0.7% (Stashaway) fees will erode your portfolio return to well below 3 month FD rates. And ironically enough, higher cost portfolio almost never give higher returns contrary to popular beliefs.

If you invest RM1000 a month, buying 4 different tickers that cost 2USD per transaction, on top of forex...before you know it, your real invested ringgit amount is only ~RM950 ish. Then when rebalancing is needed, double that cost. You will not be a happy man when you see your IBKR report and commission and cost ate a solid percent out of your yearly returns.

Criticism and discussion welcomed!

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 09:55 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 09:47 AM)

The goal is to buy the entire haystack, not look for a needle in it that's outperforming.

For classic American Bogleheads, it's simple, the equities part of the portfolio is either VT (~9300 stocks globally, Large,Mid,Small caps by market weight) which auto balances to roughly 60US:40ex-US, or VTI (US total market)+VXUS (ex-US total market) at their preferred ratio.

For us Malaysians, due to withholding tax concerns and that there is no direct VT and VTI+VXUS equivalent, we often buy their Irish-domiciled equivalent ETFs to mimic the portfolio. From there, we decide what kind of coverage we want.

VWRA/VWRD (Recommended):
=Less stock due to missing small caps, but still holds 85% of the invest-able market cap.
+Single ticker portfolio possible
+Overall higher return overtime compared to VT due to 15% withholding tax

VWRD+WSML(Developed countries small caps):
+Covers Global large and mid caps and developed countries small caps
-Lacks emerging market small caps

VWRD+WSML+EIMI
(Emerging market all caps):
+Almost fully replicates VT
-Terrible for rebalancing

For me personally, I strongly recommend VWRA and chill - one ticker, 0 rebalance troubles, save transaction cost.
However, I should put out a disclaimer that my actual portfolio is VWRA (80%), AVUV(9%), AVDV(6%), Others (5%) and I do strongly recommend against this portfolio.
AVUV and AVDV are my choices due to Avantis's factor filtered small caps have empirical evidence that it out performs general market-weighted small cap ETFs. They are however US-domiciled, but the re-balancing cost is low and dividends is not much of a concern for small caps stocks.

So that is how I've come to the conclusion to what I hold.

--------

Why I dont hold X:


Stashaway:

Actively managed funds with high fees (0.7% a year for my level), severely underperforms everything, could not commit to their portfolio and high turnover for what is touted as passive investing.
After I've started my DIY portfolio, Stashaway has zero value to me at all angles and I've fully dropped it.

Local bursa:
The notable companies in Bursa is also already included in VWRA.
Furthermore, Bursa has spent the last 20 years trading sideways with 0 improvement, gains come from swings but not overall market growth, political and currency risk threatens it everyday, and a strong, consistent foreign fund outflow meant it's hopeless eventually. Not to mention the trading costs are ironically higher than foreign stocks. Strong pass, I will not waste my time and money here.

VUAA/CSPX/SP500:

Insanely overvalued, too concentrated. Winners rotate and historically speaking, US and ex-US market take turns winning. I'll play on both sides instead of betting US will win forever and maintain my average returns. If I am buying the haystack anyway, why limit myself to only parts of the haystack? And for those who love tech stocks, no AMD, no TSMC, no TencentBaba here.

SWRD:
obsolete in my portfolio due to superior VWRA holdings, and if I buy both, they overlap quite much and will overweight a lot of stocks in my portfolio (VWRA tracks FTSE, SWRD tracks MSCI, it's generally not good to track multiple overlapping indexes).

Criticism and discussion welcomed!
*
O thanks.

I will slowly drop local burse and SA and rotate to the ETFs.

I do love US tech stocks. Probably VUAA & VWRA as a start. 👀 With VWRA higher weightage.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 09:51 AM)
O thanks.

I will slowly drop local burse and SA and rotate to the ETFs.

I do love US tech stocks. Probably VUAA & VWRA as a start. 👀 With VWRA higher weightage.
*
Well, just remember, do it because you truly think it's better for you, not because someone on the internet said so. If a decision does not come from yourself, it's easier to be stricken with doubt when things go sideways.

Holding both VUAA & VWRA would be overweighting US and more than half of VWRA holdings by market cap.

While VUAA represents less than ~5% of VWRA holding, market cap wise VUAA represents ~50% of VWRA holdings.

user posted image

If that is your intention, then all good, if not, be aware that you will have trouble balancing between VUAA & VWRA when only US large/mega caps drop in value.

I'd personally pick one but not both, and if you plan to go with pure VUAA, hold it and hold it well. If it you can manage to hold it for 30 years, then eventually it should all even out.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 10:01 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 09:58 AM)
Well, just remember, do it because you truly think it's better for you, not because someone on the internet said so. If a decision does not come from yourself, it's easier to be stricken with doubt when things go sideways.

Holding both VUAA & VWRA would be overweighting US and more than half of VWRA holdings by market cap.

user posted image

If that is your intention, then all good, if not, be aware that you will have trouble balancing between VUAA & VWRA when only US large/mega caps drop in value.
*
Yep, I plan to just invest and forget.

I prefer US stock more. But still can always have other countries stock as investment. Might just check other ETFs that have higher non US weightage. More to read.

Where do you get that pie chart? Can share the link? 😬
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 10:01 AM)
Yep, I plan to just invest and forget.

I prefer US stock more. But still can always have other countries stock as investment. Might just check other ETFs that have higher non US weightage. More to read.

Where do you get that pie chart? Can share the link? 😬
*
What I can tell you is, as of today, there is no VXUS equivalent on Irish-domiciled funds. So your choice do quickly become limited when you want to have multiple tickers in your portfolio but avoid overlapping.

The chart is from ETF Research Center https://www.etfrc.com/funds/overlap.php
But US tickers only, you'll have to use similar US funds to simulate your numbers.

It will quickly devolve into a mess when you start having SP500 ETFs, some random SG REITs, a gold ETF from Australia, a handful of VWRA, a pinch of KWEB and TPE... so, be careful, be mindful.

I strongly recommend having an investment policy, limit yourself to only change it every 6 month or ideally 1 year. If it's something you can't hold for 5 years, don't buy it.

Write down what you buy and why, if you can't justify it today, you can't hold it - and when it turns out to be an eye sore a few months down the line - you can refer to it again: "Did the fundamental reason I bought this ticker change? Or am I selling it purely out of spur of emotions?".

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 10:09 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 10:08 AM)
What I can tell you is, as of today, there is no VXUS equivalent on Irish-domiciled funds. So your choice do quickly become limited when you want to have multiple tickers in your portfolio but avoid overlapping.

The chart is from ETF Research Center https://www.etfrc.com/funds/overlap.php
But US tickers only, you'll have to use similar US funds to simulate your numbers.

It will quickly devolve into a mess when you start having SP500 ETFs, some random SG REITs, a gold ETF from Australia, a handful of VWRA, a pinch of KWEB and TPE... so, be careful, be mindful.

I strongly recommend having an investment policy, limit yourself to only change it every 6 month or ideally 1 year. If it's something you can't hold for 5 years, don't buy it.
*
For this I will really hold in long term.

As for local burse and SA. Will take time to rotate to ETFs. As I might require the funds soon.

Once all is sorted out. I will only hold a small amount in local burse for dividends while most of it will be on the ETFs.

For now just aim one ETFs and set an amount goal then rotate to get others. Hopefully my funds will increase as I further progress in my career then probably can comfortably buy more ETFs.

As for SG and Gold. Probably not in foreseeable future. Probably when I need to reduce the risk when I am older. Probably just rotate to REITs and some Gold. Now just aim at some growth ETFs.

Hmm, need to read more by end of this month. As have more funds soon. 🤤

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 4 2022, 10:17 AM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 10:11 AM)
For this I will really hold in long term.

As for local burse and SA. Will take time to rotate to ETFs. As I might require the funds soon.

Once all is sorted out. I will only hold a small amount in local burse for dividends while most of it will be on the ETFs.

For now just aim one ETFs and set an amount goal then rotate to get others. Hopefully my funds will increase as I further progress in my career then probably can comfortably buy more ETFs.

As for SG and Gold. Probably not in foreseeable future. Probably when I need to reduce the risk when I am older. Probably just rotate to REITs and some Gold. Now just aim at some growth ETFs.

Hmm, need to read more by end of this month. As have more funds soon. 🤤
*
thumbup.gif Good luck! Always get a second and third opinion.

Looking forward to the 10k from EPF myself too. With everyone withdrawing I have less and less confidence in EPF too anyway, might as well take it out and be productive with it...
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 10:19 AM)
thumbup.gif Good luck! Always get a second and third opinion.

Looking forward to the 10k from EPF myself too. With everyone withdrawing I have less and less confidence in EPF too anyway, might as well take it out and be productive with it...
*
And forex rate doesn't seem to be on MYR side Soo... 😬
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 10:31 AM)
And forex rate doesn't seem to be on MYR side Soo... 😬
*
Haha, that's why I keep as little MYR on hand as possible and start looking to earn in non-MYR currencies. MYR is just a depressing currency.
melondance
post Apr 4 2022, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 10:34 AM)
Haha, that's why I keep as little MYR on hand as possible and start looking to earn in non-MYR currencies. MYR is just a depressing currency.
*
Referring to your post above, it's crazy how Stashaway and other Roboadvisors fee of 0.7% can severely eat into the dividend yield of their corresponding ETFs... Even just investing in non Ireland domiciled ETF is wayyy better. Hopefully there will be local platform that provides Ireland domiciled ETF in the future..

This post has been edited by melondance: Apr 4 2022, 10:57 AM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 10:57 AM)
Referring to your post above, it's crazy how Stashaway and other Roboadvisors fee of 0.7% can severely eat into the dividend yield of their corresponding ETFs... Even just investing in non Ireland domiciled ETF is wayyy better. Hopefully there will be local platform that provides Ireland domiciled ETF in the future..
*
That's a long hope. For Roboadvisor, they get kickbacks from the funds they offer, and they'd need the liquidity from US markets for them to move such volume. Won't be happening for a while.

I don't think I'll ever pay robo more than 0.3% annually to manage my fund... so good luck to them. Not to mention most robo is still a mixed bag at the moment.
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 4 2022, 11:30 AM

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I think for now i will start picking up

VWRA
BRK B or CSPX
QQQ or XLK

5:3:2

I think thats it.
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post Apr 4 2022, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 4 2022, 11:30 AM)
I think for now i will start picking up

VWRA
BRK B or CSPX
QQQ or XLK

5:3:2

I think thats it.
*
Wew, must have big fund to purchase BRK B 👀.

Might consider Oracle of Omaha when I have enough funds. 😬
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post Apr 4 2022, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 10:34 AM)
Haha, that's why I keep as little MYR on hand as possible and start looking to earn in non-MYR currencies. MYR is just a depressing currency.
*
It is gonna more depressed soon which is why keep more USD and invest in it rclxms.gif

QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 10:57 AM)
Referring to your post above, it's crazy how Stashaway and other Roboadvisors fee of 0.7% can severely eat into the dividend yield of their corresponding ETFs... Even just investing in non Ireland domiciled ETF is wayyy better. Hopefully there will be local platform that provides Ireland domiciled ETF in the future..
*
Dream on local platform with IRish ETF as BNM wouldn’t allowed in the 1st place doh.gif

Malaysia taxation standards are not even up to international benchmark and framework with the new global minimum tax doh.gif

QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 11:31 AM)
Wew, must have big fund to purchase BRK B 👀.

Might consider Oracle of Omaha when I have enough funds. 😬
*
Still cheaper than buying QQQ doh.gif
Davidtcf
post Apr 4 2022, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 10:08 AM)
What I can tell you is, as of today, there is no VXUS equivalent on Irish-domiciled funds. So your choice do quickly become limited when you want to have multiple tickers in your portfolio but avoid overlapping.

The chart is from ETF Research Center https://www.etfrc.com/funds/overlap.php
But US tickers only, you'll have to use similar US funds to simulate your numbers.

It will quickly devolve into a mess when you start having SP500 ETFs, some random SG REITs, a gold ETF from Australia, a handful of VWRA, a pinch of KWEB and TPE... so, be careful, be mindful.

I strongly recommend having an investment policy, limit yourself to only change it every 6 month or ideally 1 year. If it's something you can't hold for 5 years, don't buy it.

Write down what you buy and why, if you can't justify it today, you can't hold it - and when it turns out to be an eye sore a few months down the line - you can refer to it again: "Did the fundamental reason I bought this ticker change? Or am I selling it purely out of spur of emotions?".
*
If monitoring them becomes a mess, use tools like Yahoo Finance to compile all of them in one place. Just login to it to see your daily / whole life earnings/losses in US, SG,MY or elsewhere markets.. even crypto can insert into it.

Can press into each category/stock/etf to view in detail.

Can add wish list at the bottom also (if you leave holdings blank). Set Face ID or fingerprint as password for privacy.

user posted image

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 4 2022, 12:42 PM
melondance
post Apr 4 2022, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 4 2022, 12:21 PM)
It is gonna more depressed soon which is why keep more USD and invest in it  rclxms.gif
Dream on local platform with IRish ETF as BNM wouldn’t allowed in the 1st place  doh.gif

Malaysia taxation standards are not even up to international benchmark and framework with the new global minimum tax  doh.gif
Still cheaper than buying QQQ  doh.gif
*
Ugh... thats true. BNM wouldn't allow it and it puts all Malaysian at an disadvantage compared to our neighboring countries.
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post Apr 4 2022, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 12:38 PM)
Ugh... thats true. BNM wouldn't allow it and it puts all Malaysian at an disadvantage compared to our neighboring countries.
*
This is why I invest less into Bursa also. A lot goreng and manipulation of prices there too due to lack of foreign investors.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 4 2022, 12:39 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 4 2022, 12:36 PM)
If monitoring them becomes a mess, use tools like Yahoo Finance to compile all of them in one place. Just login to it to see your daily / whole life earnings/losses in US, SG,MY or elsewhere markets.. even crypto can insert into it.

Can press into each category/stock/etf to view in detail.

Can add wish list at the bottom also (if you leave holdings blank). Set Face ID or fingerprint as password for privacy.

user posted image
*
Still, tracking it via YF is very lacking. For proper tracking to keep cost basis, IRR, MWR, forex impact , etc an excel sheet is inevitable. Plus, rebalancing them will be a nightmare. Sure you could just keep them in check by steady deposits to under-allocated parts, but there is a limit to it as asset amount grows. Not to mention cost will go up really quickly or alternatively, you lose your DCA effectiveness as you are forced to go round robin on them causing long deposit intervals.

Complex portfolio comes with complex fees and troubles, so, not really the Boglehead's way. Keep it simple, look at it once a month. I'd happily pay 0.5% a year if I can DCA automatically into VWRA without ever looking at it.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 12:38 PM)
Ugh... thats true. BNM wouldn't allow it and it puts all Malaysian at an disadvantage compared to our neighboring countries.
*
But hey, at least we have Interactive Brokers. Our close neighbour Singapore is a big fan of buying VWRA through IBKR too over at r/SingaporeFI.

I still can't get over how buying international stocks at what oversea folks consider overpriced is cheaper than buying local stocks commission and fees wise.
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 02:47 PM

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Welp, for now I will invest in VWRA first. Very diversified. Just buy and keep

And plan for the future Abit. 👀😬

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 4 2022, 02:48 PM
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 4 2022, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 11:31 AM)
Wew, must have big fund to purchase BRK B 👀.

Might consider Oracle of Omaha when I have enough funds. 😬
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Brk b not a haha
Brk b 360 oni
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 4 2022, 05:24 PM)
Brk b not a haha
Brk b 360 oni
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Yeah I know.

All Ze best bruh. 👀😬
honsiong
post Apr 4 2022, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 10:57 AM)
Referring to your post above, it's crazy how Stashaway and other Roboadvisors fee of 0.7% can severely eat into the dividend yield of their corresponding ETFs... Even just investing in non Ireland domiciled ETF is wayyy better. Hopefully there will be local platform that provides Ireland domiciled ETF in the future..
*
Bcoz only in MY SG HK, dividends are kings. In US, they play the game of capital gains.


DragonReine
post Apr 4 2022, 05:58 PM

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Starting my buy-and-hold VWRA-only portfolio 😂

Maybe buy some QQQ for flavour.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(DragonReine @ Apr 4 2022, 05:58 PM)
Starting my buy-and-hold VWRA-only portfolio 😂

Maybe buy some QQQ for flavour.
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Welcome to the VWRA and chill club thumbup.gif

If can get 3 person confirmed maybe can start a list of people who hold 80% VWRA or above tongue.gif or some other arbitrary percentage that can qualify as VWRA and chill
melondance
post Apr 4 2022, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(honsiong @ Apr 4 2022, 05:43 PM)
Bcoz only in MY SG HK, dividends are kings. In US, they play the game of capital gains.
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Problem is... in the long term... Even low % dividend becomes really huge factor in the long term. 0.7% is not a small amount, for those who don't bother to research and invest... It might be a good deal as something invested is better than nothing at all
melondance
post Apr 4 2022, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 06:00 PM)
Welcome to the VWRA and chill club  thumbup.gif

If can get 3 person confirmed maybe can start a list of people who hold 80% VWRA or above  tongue.gif  or some other arbitrary percentage that can qualify as VWRA and chill
*
I hold VT but its basically the same except for the 15% withholding tax icon_rolleyes.gif
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 08:14 PM)
I hold VT but its basically the same except for the 15% withholding tax  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
You missed some important points. They look the same. The largest holdings look similar.

But they follow different indices. VWRA follows FTSE All World Index, VT follows FTSE Global All-Cap Index.

Global All Cap has twice the no. of constituents compared to All World.

Global All cap includes small cap (All world excludes small caps), hence the larger no. of constituents.

----------------------------------------------------

On top of that, VWRA follows Irish tax laws and Ireland's law, VT follows US law. They are different. Ireland is a tax haven. There is an added layer of country and regulatory risk not seen in VWRA superficially (the lower WHT comes with a hidden price).

Just something to note.

In the end, passive investing still depends on which indices you follow. Too many variants of indices on the streets and you will turn passive into active since people will start to compare indices (this index outperform that one... etc.)

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 08:49 PM
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 08:14 PM)
I hold VT but its basically the same except for the 15% withholding tax  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
It's still good, VT even carry more stocks, but of course, there's the the withholding tax issues. My friend buys VT now too because the transaction cost is way cheaper for him to DCA, and his portfolio size isn't large enough to worry about WHT tax drag yet. Once VT yearly dividend tax drag is bigger than maximum possible transaction cost of VWRA, then it's better to switch over.

Welcome to the club!

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 09:07 PM
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 4 2022, 08:45 PM)
You missed some important points. They look the same. The largest holdings look similar.

But they follow different indices. VWRA follows FTSE All World Index, VT follows FTSE Global All-Cap Index.

Global All Cap has twice the no. of constituents compared to All World.

Global All cap includes small cap (All world excludes small caps), hence the larger no. of constituents.

----------------------------------------------------

On top of that, VWRA follows Irish tax laws and Ireland's law, VT follows US law. They are different. Ireland is a tax haven. There is an added layer of country and regulatory risk not seen in VWRA superficially (the lower WHT comes with a hidden price).

Just something to note.

In the end, passive investing still depends on which indices you follow. Too many variants of indices on the streets and you will turn passive into active since people will start to compare indices (this index outperform that one... etc.)
*
Yeap, hence the eternal SP500 vs VT vs VXUS+VTI vs SWRD/IWDA+EIMI/WSML vs VWRA portfolio discussions and disagreements.

At this level of diversification and generally low costs, the choices among these start to become a way smaller concern, and the biggest impact is going to be the ability to ignore everything, deposit regularly, diligently until retirement.

Thanks for the value added replies!

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 09:11 PM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 06:00 PM)
Welcome to the VWRA and chill club  thumbup.gif

If can get 3 person confirmed maybe can start a list of people who hold 80% VWRA or above  tongue.gif  or some other arbitrary percentage that can qualify as VWRA and chill
*
Well you can add me to the club soon. 😜
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 4 2022, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 09:12 PM)
Well you can add me to the club soon. 😜
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Cant wait tongue.gif But your VWRA holding is gonna be sub 50% for a quite a while first biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 4 2022, 09:23 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 09:10 PM)
Yeap, hence the eternal SP500 vs VT vs VXUS+VTI vs SWRD/IWDA+EIMI/WSML vs VWRA portfolio discussions and disagreements.

At this level of diversification and generally low costs, the choices among these start to become a way smaller concern, and the biggest impact is going to be the ability to ignore everything, deposit regularly, diligently until retirement.

Thanks for the value added replies!
*
I wished investing is as simple as that. tongue.gif

Anyway, good luck for our fellow Bogleheads. I support Bogle's movement actually. Time to take back Wall Street's money and reinvest them. thumbsup.gif
Cubalagi
post Apr 4 2022, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 4 2022, 09:42 PM)
I wished investing is as simple as that. tongue.gif

Anyway, good luck for our fellow Bogleheads. I support Bogle's movement actually. Time to take back Wall Street's money and reinvest them. :thumbsup:
*
All these ETFs are also run by Wall Street..

SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 4 2022, 09:45 PM)
All these ETFs are also run by Wall Street..
*
At least you pay less in terms of management fees compared to active funds. A lot less. Low single digit percent versus 0.1-0.5% is about one order of magnitude (compounded for long, you save a lot).

And you avoid the painstaking need to buy hundred or thousands of shares yourself. The managers' hands are tied to their backs. They must follow the index (a bit of nuance: this is only true for "fully replicated" ETFs, not for "index sampled" ETFs).

(My "Wall Street" figuratively represents the active fund managers, not "Wall Street" as a whole. biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 10:06 PM
sgh
post Apr 4 2022, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 4 2022, 09:55 PM)
At least you pay less in terms of management fees compared to active funds. A lot less. Low single digit percent versus 0.1-0.5% is about one order of magnitude (compounded for long, you save a lot).

And you avoid the painstaking need to buy hundred or thousands of shares yourself. The managers' hands are tied to their backs. They must follow the index (a bit of nuance: this is only true for "fully replicated" ETFs, not for "index sampled" ETFs).

(My "Wall Street" figuratively represents the active fund managers, not "Wall Street" as a whole. biggrin.gif)
*
And it would even be better if Msian can use EPF and Sporean can use CPF for the regular invest due to super low cost. Anyone know why cannot becuz there is still risk?
AthrunIJ
post Apr 4 2022, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 09:22 PM)
Cant wait  tongue.gif But your VWRA holding is gonna be sub 50% for a quite a while first  biggrin.gif
*
We can circumnavigate it by only taking my international ETFs into account and voilà 100% 😜🤣
Davidtcf
post Apr 4 2022, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 4 2022, 05:29 PM)
Yeah I know.

All Ze best bruh. 👀😬
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300+ cheap le for a US stock.. Nvidia is around that range also.

Compare with Tesla, Alphabet (google), and Amazon they are much more expensive.

Still I have faith in Alphabet. Bought one recently. Looking forward to its stock split in July to see what happens. After stock split usually their prices will go up.. as some ppl will buy them to play options or more affordable for them at 100+.

AthrunIJ
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 4 2022, 11:14 PM)
300+ cheap le for a US stock.. Nvidia is around that range also.

Compare with Tesla, Alphabet (google), and Amazon they are much more expensive.

Still I have faith in Alphabet. Bought one recently. Looking forward to its stock split in July to see what happens. After stock split usually their prices will go up.. as some ppl will buy them to play options or more affordable for them at 100+.
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No funds to buy individual for now. Probably in the future 🤤
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 4 2022, 10:35 PM)
And it would even be better if Msian can use EPF and Sporean can use CPF for the regular invest due to super low cost. Anyone know why cannot becuz there is still risk?
*
You can invest via CPF in those instruments listed on SGX only. https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/growing-your-...-scheme-options

Similarly, those in Malaysia can also stick to Malaysian mutual funds only (more restrictive than SG since you can't even touch stocks, bonds etc.) https://www.kwsp.gov.my/member/investment

I am not aware of "regular investment plans" but you can just invest regularly (manual regular investment plans) though it is a bit of hassle.

It would actually be nice to allow Malaysian and Singaporeans to use their respective retirement funds on low-cost, well-diversified ETFs or index funds for long term holdings for retirement purposes. The main reason this is currently not allowed would be regulation issues, since MAS in SG or SC in Malaysia would not be responsible for funds invested via say NYSE Arca or even "riskier" UCITS.

Another possibility is to "prop up" the domestic currency and reduce funds outflow. This would be more of an issue in Malaysia than SG.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 11:56 PM
SUSxander83
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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 4 2022, 10:35 PM)
And it would even be better if Msian can use EPF and Sporean can use CPF for the regular invest due to super low cost. Anyone know why cannot becuz there is still risk?
*
EPF main mandate that any withdrawal for investment its has to be locally invest not abroad otherwise it cannot fund more MGS purchase doh.gif

This post has been edited by xander83: Apr 5 2022, 02:22 AM
Davidtcf
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 5 2022, 02:22 AM)
EPF main mandate that any withdrawal for investment its has to be locally invest not abroad otherwise it cannot fund more MGS purchase doh.gif
*
yea, Global Titan Fund by Principal no longer accepts EPF investment.. starting 1st April 2022. If I know earlier last month should have added more. Didn't read the fine print. sad.gif
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 5 2022, 02:13 PM)
yea, Global Titan Fund by Principal no longer accepts EPF investment.. starting 1st April 2022. If I know earlier last month should have added more. Didn't read the fine print.  sad.gif
*
Already hinted earlier when EPF announced their direction early Mac doh.gif

In fact I bought at the bottom 52 week low now sitting on 12% gain rclxms.gif
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 6 2022, 09:10 PM

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hi any IBKR user can answr me?

i bought 1 share of VWRA, but the commission there stated 4.00

my order match 112.50, but cost is 116.00

anyone can enlighten me?

SUSTOS
post Apr 6 2022, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 6 2022, 09:10 PM)
hi any IBKR user can answr me?

i bought 1 share of VWRA, but the commission there stated 4.00

my order match 112.50, but cost is 116.00

anyone can enlighten me?
*
Screenshots would help.

Perhaps there is an exchange rebate. https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index...=1590&p=stocks2

I am not sure which exchange is your order routed.

Also, you seem to be using fixed pricing, consider switching to tiered for LSE. Your transaction cost will be cut be at least 50% for such small scale purchase.
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 6 2022, 09:10 PM)
hi any IBKR user can answr me?

i bought 1 share of VWRA, but the commission there stated 4.00

my order match 112.50, but cost is 116.00

anyone can enlighten me?
*
Are you on Fixed Pricing? You need to swap over to Tiered Pricing to access USD 1.70 commission for Ireland/UK stocks & ETF traded in USD.

user posted image

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 6 2022, 09:43 PM
Davidtcf
post Apr 6 2022, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 6 2022, 09:10 PM)
hi any IBKR user can answr me?

i bought 1 share of VWRA, but the commission there stated 4.00

my order match 112.50, but cost is 116.00

anyone can enlighten me?
*
You are on the default fixed pricing. It is a trap by IBKR for new joiners. It was the first thing I checked coz I suspected as a business they will set this trap.

Indeed I was right.. immediately I changed it to Tiered Pricing right before my first trade.

Always check this before trade with any brokers. If they have settings for this make sure you are on the correct configuration.

Fixed pricing is only good for whales. We are normal retailers so tiered will benefit us more.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 6 2022, 10:31 PM
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 6 2022, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 6 2022, 10:30 PM)
You are on the default fixed pricing. It is a trap by IBKR for new joiners. It was the first thing I checked coz I suspected as a business they will set this trap.

Indeed I was right.. immediately I changed it to Tiered Pricing right before my first trade.

Always check this before trade with any brokers. If they have settings for this make sure you are on the correct configuration.

Fixed pricing is only good for whales. We are normal retailers so tiered will benefit us more.
*
How to change that yea? Cannot be change already?
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 6 2022, 10:33 PM)
How to change that yea? Cannot be change already?
*
Can be changed anytime at account settings, try going to setting > bottom left, its just a click.

user posted image

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 6 2022, 11:46 PM
Toku
post Apr 7 2022, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 4 2022, 09:55 PM)
At least you pay less in terms of management fees compared to active funds. A lot less. Low single digit percent versus 0.1-0.5% is about one order of magnitude (compounded for long, you save a lot).

And you avoid the painstaking need to buy hundred or thousands of shares yourself. The managers' hands are tied to their backs. They must follow the index (a bit of nuance: this is only true for "fully replicated" ETFs, not for "index sampled" ETFs).

(My "Wall Street" figuratively represents the active fund managers, not "Wall Street" as a whole. biggrin.gif)
*
That is too much diversification I am afraid. And the China sector is too low. Not good for long term. No one manage your money better than yourself.
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 7 2022, 03:54 PM)
That is too much diversification I am afraid. And the China sector is too low. Not good for long term. No one manage your money better than yourself.
*
Out of curiosity, what would be your ideal portfolio?
How many stocks is too concentrated, how many stocks is considered diversified?
How much China sector do you allocate in your portfolio?
I assume you fully manage your portfolio, where do you buy and hold your holdings?

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 7 2022, 04:07 PM
Davidtcf
post Apr 7 2022, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 7 2022, 04:07 PM)
Out of curiosity, what would be your ideal portfolio?
How many stocks is too concentrated, how many stocks is considered diversified?
How much China sector do you allocate in your portfolio?
I assume you fully manage your portfolio, where do you buy and hold your holdings?
*
I think he is referring to buying stocks (self manage) and not relying on ETFs.
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 7 2022, 04:33 PM)
I think he is referring to buying stocks (self manage) and not relying on ETFs.
*
Yeap, that's what I thought too. So I am curious what his portfolio would look like. For individual stock investors, their satisfied level of diversification can be anywhere between 5 to 50 or more, so I am curious of his definition and platform of investment.
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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 7 2022, 03:54 PM)
That is too much diversification I am afraid. And the China sector is too low. Not good for long term. No one manage your money better than yourself.
*
Diversification as in country, sector, industry, "themes" (for thematic funds), or asset types?

You can look at diversification from various perspectives, depending on your criteria. And there are index/indices available for each sector/country/industry/"themes"/asset types.

So what Bogleheads will do is to inspect the indices, make sure it is a good representation of the industry/sector/country/themes/assets, then purchase (an) index fund(s) which track(s) the index/indices.

Diversification of a specific country/sector/themes etc. is up to the index provider to decide. However, the overall mixture of different indices in a Boglehead's portfolio is up to the boglehead to decide. They can build their baskets of indices, or they just buy the global index funds, like MSCI ACWI funds etc.

If you build you own index fund portfolio in a different weightage from the MSCI ACWI index, for example, then you introduce tracking errors. You may outperform or underperform the index over time. So, pure Bogleheads would just buy a global fund/ETF which tracks a global index.

------------------------------------

As for your comments on the underweight of Chinese counters and "not good for long term". Not sure china sector is too low in which index. Perhaps you are referring to global indices.

In this case, a Bogleheads would not care. They just blindly follow the index.

You seem to think that Chinese counters will do well in the long run. This is known as "views" in finance. You are free to express your views, and that belongs to the regime of active investing. You can long Chinese equities, for instance, relative to a passive global index like the ACWI. That's perfectly fine. But Bogleheads won't do that, they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements. If the (global) index in question is underweight on Chinese exposure, they just follow.

-----------------------------------

"No one manage your money better than yourself."

Absolutely, because only you know what kind of risk you can take. Whenever someone else manage your money, his goal is not aligned with yours (he wants fees and commissions, the more the better), but you want higher returns with less risks, shopping for arbritrage opportunities. Principal-agent problems are at the very heart of modern finance, and hence counterparty risk arise all too often (especially due to promotion of riskier products like derivatives with high margins).

That's why an "ultra pure" Bogleheads would just buy all the counters in the index himself, which is very impractical, so the next best alternative is to look for index funds/passive ETFs to solve this problem. There are issues such as misalignment of interest between Blackrock fund managers and you, but that is the next best thing possible.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 7 2022, 05:18 PM
naranjero P
post Apr 7 2022, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 7 2022, 03:54 PM)
That is too much diversification I am afraid. And the China sector is too low. Not good for long term. No one manage your money better than yourself.
*
Agree to disagree, you have made a very brave post in Boglehead thread thumbup.gif thumbup.gif

Since we all here invest to make money, being right or wrong doesn't really matter, what matter is our investment is making money or not.

So I also share my opinion:
"China sector is too low. Not good for long term".
-probably you are right. AND probably if you have known it, most of the big investment bank fund managers and pros had known it as well, and they are aware the risk of investing in China as well. Thats why the asset of China is traded at the price you see.
-so is that tilting more to China means you have bought something cheaper than fair value that others haven't notice? I guess unless you really have insider news that the public doesn't know yet... or if you have crystal ball... otherwise if how much you know about China is more or less from more publicly available information like news or internet or economic data...investors had already priced the potential return and risk of China market - you are probably only tilting your portfolio to be riskier, you might not made your portfolio better. Unless maybe you had financially engineered it for hedging with something?

"No one manage your money better than yourself"
-this one I agreed notworthy.gif what we need to understand about ourselves is the risk we can take.
-even pros and fund managers, some make more money some lose money, ultimately it is zero sum game
naranjero P
post Apr 7 2022, 07:36 PM

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You seem to think that Chinese counters will do well in the long run. This is known as "views" in finance. You are free to express your views, and that belongs to the regime of active investing. You can long Chinese equities, for instance, relative to a passive global index like the ACWI. That's perfectly fine. But Bogleheads won't do that, they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements. If the (global) index in question is underweight on Chinese exposure, they just follow.

bruce.gif

I think this is incorrect statement if you are referring to passive global index as " they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements" -- very false statement.
passive index fund don't make complicated analysis and judgements, they only hold asset based on weightage of the asset, how much of the asset priced, is based on the market investor trading it at what price -- which is more reflected as a collective fair value of all investors.


Being boglehead is nothing fancy, so purist or not purist doesn't really matter, whats matter is if the reason behind the boglehead investing sound or not. Ultimately, we are here to make money right?
SUSTOS
post Apr 7 2022, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Apr 7 2022, 07:36 PM)
You seem to think that Chinese counters will do well in the long run. This is known as "views" in finance. You are free to express your views, and that belongs to the regime of active investing. You can long Chinese equities, for instance, relative to a passive global index like the ACWI. That's perfectly fine. But Bogleheads won't do that, they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements. If the (global) index in question is underweight on Chinese exposure, they just follow.

bruce.gif

I think this is incorrect statement if you are referring to passive global index as " they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements" -- very false statement.
passive index fund don't make complicated analysis and judgements, they only hold asset based on weightage of the asset, how much of the asset priced, is based on the market investor trading it at what price -- which is more reflected as a collective fair value of all investors.
Being boglehead is nothing fancy, so purist or not purist doesn't really matter, whats matter is if the reason behind the boglehead investing sound or not. Ultimately, we are here to make money right?
*
I refer to Bogleheads as having faith in index providers' analysis and judgements, not the ETFs/index funds themselves (maybe the fund managers have, but still they are bound by the fund's prospectus and other legal documents which govern the funds' operations).

So, the manager of the index funds just follow the index, and "Bogleheads" would buy the index. If you trace the money, it's Bogleheads who buy the index (and maybe some others who want a piece of the index in their portfolio). Why would someone buy a product if they don't have faith in it, right?

The complicated analysis and judgements are done by the the index providers, like S&P, FTSE, MSCI etc. They have "methodologies" to follow in choosing the index constituents.

E.g. this is MSCI's "methodologies": https://www.msci.com/index-methodology

Ya, nothing fancy. It's just a philosophy, there are different ways of investing out there. But since this thread is about Bogleheads in Malaysia, I presume we just stick to Bogleheads stuff here. I am not sure if active vs passive/Bogleheads discussions/debates are allowed in this "local chapter".

And yes, we are definitely here to make money. The only thing that differs is how to make money, i.e. the approach (whether the process involves too much costs etc.)

Hoshiyuu
post Apr 7 2022, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 7 2022, 08:11 PM)
I refer to Bogleheads as having faith in index providers' analysis and judgements, not the ETFs/index funds themselves (maybe the fund managers have, but still they are bound by the fund's prospectus and other legal documents which govern the funds' operations).

So, the manager of the index funds just follow the index, and "Bogleheads" would buy the index. If you trace the money, it's Bogleheads who buy the index (and maybe some others who want a piece of the index in their portfolio). Why would someone buy a product if they don't have faith in it, right?

The complicated analysis and judgements are done by the the index providers, like S&P, FTSE, MSCI etc. They have "methodologies"  to follow in choosing the index constituents.

E.g. this is MSCI's "methodologies": https://www.msci.com/index-methodology

Ya, nothing fancy. It's just a philosophy, there are different ways of investing out there. But since this thread is about Bogleheads in Malaysia, I presume we just stick to Bogleheads stuff here. I am not sure if active vs passive/Bogleheads discussions/debates are allowed in this "local chapter".

And yes, we are definitely here to make money. The only thing that differs is how to make money, i.e. the approach (whether the process involves too much costs etc.)
*
Great discussion points like yours are always appreciated and welcomed. Part of the problem with Bogleheads community is that there really isn't much to talk about, doubly so when we don't even need to discuss tax-advantage/exempt/disadvantage accounts.

Plus, any constructive discussion of non-Bogleheads is also healthy, either it'll point out faults of Bogleheads or reaffirms other Bogleheads to stay the course. Always welcomed to have more activity here.
naranjero P
post Apr 7 2022, 10:32 PM

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I refer to Bogleheads as having faith in index providers' analysis and judgements, not the ETFs/index funds themselves (maybe the fund managers have, but still they are bound by the fund's prospectus and other legal documents which govern the funds' operations).

So, the manager of the index funds just follow the index, and "Bogleheads" would buy the index. If you trace the money, it's Bogleheads who buy the index (and maybe some others who want a piece of the index in their portfolio). Why would someone buy a product if they don't have faith in it, right?

The complicated analysis and judgements are done by the the index providers, like S&P, FTSE, MSCI etc. They have "methodologies" to follow in choosing the index constituents.

E.g. this is MSCI's "methodologies":

Ya, nothing fancy. It's just a philosophy, there are different ways of investing out there. But since this thread is about Bogleheads in Malaysia, I presume we just stick to Bogleheads stuff here. I am not sure if active vs passive/Bogleheads discussions/debates are allowed in this "local chapter".

And yes, we are definitely here to make money. The only thing that differs is how to make money, i.e. the approach (whether the process involves too much costs etc.)
===


Ah okay my bad for misunderstood you doh.gif
Indeed a complicated analysis and judgement for the methodologies, I will only "guess" their methodology doesn't make a lot of difference, if not mistaken even the country GDP weighed global index vs standard one also not too far difference in performance?

Since the objective of everyone here is the same -- to have better investment, I guess it is no harm to share different view so we can make better judgement as well? What would be your view on different approach / active investing if you don't mind to share?
SUSTOS
post Apr 7 2022, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Apr 7 2022, 10:32 PM)
Ah okay my bad for misunderstood you  doh.gif
Indeed a complicated analysis and judgement for the methodologies, I will only "guess" their methodology doesn't make a lot of difference, if not mistaken even the country GDP weighed global index vs standard one also not too far difference in performance?

Since the objective of everyone here is the same -- to have better investment, I guess it is no harm to share different view so we can make better judgement as well? What would be your view on different approach / active investing if you don't mind to share?
*
It's ok. I misread people's message too biggrin.gif (and I am not really a people's person).

Academic research on active vs passive investing has been mixed, though evidences point to passive as the winner in the past few years, after adjusting for fees and costs.

I personally take a mixed approach, with the understanding that I will not be able to outperform the market. I plan to have active holdings which I use to express my views, supplemented with index funds which represent the overall market. For active, I must understand the companies which I invest in, their business models, market structures, etc. Then I invest in them.

For example, I personally don't like Google (Alphabet), Amazon and Meta's business models, and favour Apple's and Microsoft's, so I don't touch the former 3, only hold the other 2, AAPL and MSFT. I like JNJ, Roche and Novartis for their conservative balance sheets, compared to Pfizer, Merck and Astrazeneca etc. For individual positions, I pay close attentions to counters if they generally drop 20-30% from their recent peaks and decide if it's favourably to enter for long-term positions at that level. This is for the active part.

On the passive side, I need to buy the whole market, say S&P 500, in that case, I have no choice but to buy an S&P 500 index fund and have exposure to the whole market. I would buy the index when the discount is very large, say 30-50% drop in market (at least 2 historical annual standard deviations, i.e. >= 2 s.d., which is around 36% ish for the S&P 500).

So in short, I adopt a mixed model, passive supplemented with active views whenever the opportunity arises. So far, I only have individual stock holdings (26 holdings, last I count), not yet buying any index funds since it's nowhere near a 30-50% drop yet.

Note that this is for international portfolio, and I have not included bonds in the picture yet. For Malaysian portfolio, things are very different. Due to the significant alpha that PNB and EPF managers can generate on top of KLCI, a rational investor would overweigh EPF or PNB FP funds (when NAV is above 1) rather than gaining passive exposure via KLCI.

Hence, it is important to note that active/passive also depends on market efficiency. If the market is rigged by large funds like in Malaysia (hence inefficient), the index is not the most optimized way of earning returns. On the other hand, in a mature market like S&P 500, it's exteremely difficult for fund managers earn consistent alpha and to beat it.

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 8 2022, 12:18 AM
Toku
post Apr 8 2022, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 7 2022, 11:06 PM)
It's ok. I misread people's message too biggrin.gif (and I am not really a people's person).

Academic research on active vs passive investing has been mixed, though evidences point to passive as the winner in the past few years, after adjusting for fees and costs.

I personally take a mixed approach, with the understanding that I will not be able to outperform the market. I plan to have active holdings which I use to express my views, supplemented with index funds which represent the overall market. For active, I must understand the companies which I invest in, their business models, market structures, etc. Then I invest in them.

For example, I personally don't like Google (Alphabet), Amazon and Meta's business models, and favour Apple's and Microsoft's, so I don't touch the former 3, only hold the other 2, AAPL and MSFT. I like JNJ, Roche and Novartis for their conservative balance sheets, compared to Pfizer, Merck and Astrazeneca etc. For individual positions, I pay close attentions to counters if they generally drop 20-30% from their recent peaks and decide if it's favourably to enter for long-term positions at that level. This is for the active part.

On the passive side, I need to buy the whole market, say S&P 500, in that case, I have no choice but to buy an S&P 500 index fund and have exposure to the whole market. I would buy the index when the discount is very large, say 30-50% drop in market (at least 2 historical annual standard deviations, i.e. >= 2 s.d., which is around 36% ish for the S&P 500).

So in short, I adopt a mixed model, passive supplemented with active views whenever the opportunity arises. So far, I only have individual stock holdings (26 holdings, last I count), not yet buying any index funds since it's nowhere near a 30-50% drop yet.

Note that this is for international portfolio, and I have not included bonds in the picture yet. For Malaysian portfolio, things are very different. Due to the significant alpha that PNB and EPF managers can generate on top of KLCI, a rational investor would overweigh EPF or PNB FP funds (when NAV is above 1) rather than gaining passive exposure via KLCI.

Hence, it is important to note that active/passive also depends on market efficiency. If the market is rigged by large funds like in Malaysia (hence inefficient), the index is not the most optimized way of earning returns. On the other hand, in a mature market like S&P 500, it's exteremely difficult for fund managers earn consistent alpha and to beat it.

Hope that helps.
*
Sorry I don't meant to provoke ppl in this thread. I run out of quota yesterday and couldn't response. I can see all the sifus explained much better of my comment than myself, so I can save a little effort.

My earlier comment is focusing on the VWRA as it covers 3k+ stocks world wide, with around 59% in US and 6% in China sector, and @Hoshiyuu mentioned to put 80% of asset in this ETF. Hence my comment.

My "view":

1. Geopolitics dictates the long term economy and then the asset price. Example of that is the effect of Plaza Accord. Moving forward this world is very likely to have 2 super powers hence we need to have higher weightage and participate more in these 2 super powers economy. This is long term trend. You can check on Ray Dalio's analysis. According to him, the rise of the successful investors like Buffet and Bill Gross during 70-90 is due to the fed's rate policy and the economy opportunities. They ride on the right waves. Now if China's path of growth follows the US, this waves might be in place already. I know there are a lot of narrative on china assets' investible but I think if you are not looking to grow at the expense of their interest there are still opportunities. Being in a third world country citizen, I have the opportunity to stay neutral and make gains from both sides.

2. Of the topic of diversification, I think asset class diversification is more important than having multiple stocks. And I have limited investible fund, spreading out into 3k+ stocks is really not feasible. And I think the index fund just follow the % to invest like @Naranjero mentioned. They follow a top down approach not bottom up. With such low fees, they won't analyze the fundamental of each stock before investment. Besides, it covers too much of stocks so I think inside could be a lot of tier 3,4,5 asset. With my limited fund, I want to be sure I put them only on the tier 1 asset according to my understanding. For example GM is part of the index but to me this type of automakers is not tier 1 asset (large capital investment required and high debt) but it is part of the index and I'm force to hold a certain % of it if I want to participate in the fund.

3. Fund is too big and too slow to react (not agile enough). And there is a lot of policy or protocols they are tied to. For example, a 98% equity fund need to always invest to keep to that 98% even if there is no good candidate or the market is going to crash. An index fund need to stick to its weightage for the stock as well so some low tier stock is included which I find it hard to be acceptable. When certain bad stock sell down, the fund need to rebalance to make up to the target % by putting more into the bad stock. Kinda dump to me. And when there is a crash or event, big fund takes too long to clear due to their size so most of the time the fund holder is left holding the bag. Of course if you select active fund the fees is high and there is no certainty the higher the fee the higher the return thingy.

4. These funds often serve the wall street and I don't think I am high on the list of wall street. Very often we see the news smart money or the so called ppl with insider news sold the blocks of stocks while the teacher's pension fund, firefighter's pension fund go big to pick up those stock on the narrative of value. Later when the risk unveiled it crashed and the pension fund holder holds the bag. Some event the fund is being used to be a political weapon such as the sell down on the Hong Kong market just to give pressure on to the HK chief etc. and latest one is the sanctions to Russia thing. Sometime it is totally not considering the interest of the investor. Even within the fund there are different grades - when first launched private placement at who knows price for those top of the chain hedge fund/investor, then later goes to privilege banking retail customer and last goes to unsuspected bottom of the chain retail customer. When top investor wants to unload for any reason, privilege banking start to promote to retail customers and the balance get fill up by the non-privileged banking retail customers. So most of the time we the powerless group is the bottom of the food chain. We can remain powerless but we need to have knowledge on this.

Investing is a hard journey. No one will work hard for your wealth other than yourself. That is my belief.

I'm kinda agreed with @Ramjade on his strategy. Play nimble and strike fast when you see a clear shot and in the area you understand. I also agree with @TOS mixed approach.

My approach:

1. To me, since the only benefit of investing in an irish domiciled ETF is to avoid US WHT and estate tax, I only pick ETF that covers only US equity of the sector I'm interested in.

2. Focus on balance and total return of portfolio. I put more emphasize to asset class diversification on top of equity diversification. Equity, Commodity, currencies and bond or equivalents. My target is to get some exposure to 1 or 2 leaders of each sector. Go for quality as @Ramjade said. Not more than 30 stocks for equity so that it is manageable. I still have much to learn from TOS how to dissect the business model/structure on GOOGL, MSFT etc.

3. Dividend and options. Seek opportunities on income from dividend and options.

4. As I suspect the world is going to be more divided between the west and east, I foresee I need to pay more attention on the stock pick, the asset where it is domiciled and the broker where it is instituted. Li Ka Sheng starts to divest UK assets and CNOOC divests North sea oil field and turn to invest in Africa and South America. All moves are to derisk on Geopolitical risk and prepare for unhooked.


Sorry if I accidentally said something provoking anyone. It is not my intention. Pls correct me sifus.




sgh
post Apr 8 2022, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 8 2022, 11:18 AM)
3. Fund is too big and too slow to react (not agile enough). And there is a lot of policy or protocols they are tied to. For example, a 98% equity fund need to always invest to keep to that 98% even if there is no good candidate or the market is going to crash. An index fund need to stick to its weightage for the stock as well so some low tier stock is included which I find it hard to be acceptable. When certain bad stock sell down, the fund need to rebalance to make up to the target % by putting more into the bad stock. Kinda dump to me. And when there is a crash or event, big fund takes too long to clear due to their size so most of the time the fund holder is left holding the bag. Of course if you select active fund the fees is high and there is no certainty the higher the fee the higher the return thingy.
Just want to understand if a fund just track index and ask for high expense ratio it will not find any takers. Usually it is index tracking ETF with low expense ratio that fit the bill. Fund managers are motivated to beat the index so if it just buy what is in the index how to attract investors?

Index tracking ETF suffer the problem you mention above and seldom it is a mutual fund as fund managers are motivated to beat the index they will adopt more strategy including buying stocks NOT in the index etc which translates to higher expense ratio

This post has been edited by sgh: Apr 8 2022, 04:28 PM
Davidtcf
post Apr 8 2022, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 8 2022, 11:18 AM)
1. Geopolitics dictates the long term economy and then the asset price. Example of that is the effect of Plaza Accord. Moving forward this world is very likely to have 2 super powers hence we need to have higher weightage and participate more in these 2 super powers economy. This is long term trend. You can check on Ray Dalio's analysis. According to him, the rise of the successful investors like Buffet and Bill Gross during 70-90 is due to the fed's rate policy and the economy opportunities. They ride on the right waves. Now if China's path of growth follows the US, this waves might be in place already. I know there are a lot of narrative on china assets' investible but I think if you are not looking to grow at the expense of their interest there are still opportunities. Being in a third world country citizen, I have the opportunity to stay neutral and make gains from both sides.
*
When I see prices like this diving.. I don’t dare to invest in China.

user posted image

This is China’s largest tech ETF.
Thanks to Xi Jinping administration. Communist party also hard to predict their next move. Also rumours of China planning to invade Taiwan in the near future. In their eyes Taiwan must rejoin China one day sooner or later. Military have been building up in China heavily to prepare for this day.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 8 2022, 06:49 PM
sgh
post Apr 8 2022, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 8 2022, 06:41 PM)
When I see prices like this diving.. I don’t dare to invest in China.

user posted image

This is China’s largest tech ETF.
Thanks to Xi Jinping administration. Communist party also hard to predict their next move. Also rumours of China planning to invade Taiwan in the near future. In their eyes Taiwan must rejoin China one day sooner or later. Military have been building up in China heavily to prepare for this day.
*
Avoid China tech for a while. All latest China fund factsheet I have shown fund managers all have shifted to Industrials, Consumer Cyclicals as top sector and tech is relegated to maybe 4th or 5th position. This mean fund manager are also actively avoiding the China tech sector. In times of crisis we witness fund managers doing the hard work.

For index tracking ETF too bad hard for them to avoid if all stocks in the index all perform badly UNLESS can remove those non-performing stocks from the index so the ETF no need to buy those stocks ?
SUSxander83
post Apr 8 2022, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 8 2022, 07:10 PM)
Avoid China tech for a while. All latest China fund factsheet I have shown fund managers all have shifted to Industrials, Consumer Cyclicals as top sector and tech is relegated to maybe 4th or 5th position. This mean fund manager are also actively avoiding the China tech sector. In times of crisis we witness fund managers doing the hard work.

For index tracking ETF too bad hard for them to avoid if all stocks in the index all perform badly UNLESS can remove those non-performing stocks from the index so the ETF no need to buy those stocks ?
*
Don’t forget avoid China property and financials as well due debt overblown
Toku
post Apr 8 2022, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 8 2022, 06:41 PM)
When I see prices like this diving.. I don’t dare to invest in China.

user posted image

This is China’s largest tech ETF.
Thanks to Xi Jinping administration. Communist party also hard to predict their next move. Also rumours of China planning to invade Taiwan in the near future. In their eyes Taiwan must rejoin China one day sooner or later. Military have been building up in China heavily to prepare for this day.
*
This is due to tech sector cycle and policy. That's why diversify into different sectors is important. Try to build an all weather portfolio so that when certain sector not performing, you have other sector performing good as hedge.

Also entry price is very important. If you get in price low enough, you won't have such pressure.
Toku
post Apr 8 2022, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 8 2022, 01:01 PM)
Just want to understand if a fund just track index and ask for high expense ratio it will not find any takers. Usually it is index tracking ETF with low expense ratio that fit the bill. Fund managers are motivated to beat the index so if it just buy what is in the index how to attract investors?

Index tracking ETF suffer the problem you mention above and seldom it is a mutual fund as fund managers are motivated to beat the index they will adopt more strategy including buying stocks NOT in the index etc which translates to higher expense ratio
*
I have the contrarian view. If you are really lucky, you get in at the right time and your fund manager gets everything right. But I think this chance is low for most ordinary ppl like me. So far I have not heard anyone gets rich because he bought a mutual fund. It can be part of your portfolio with a moderate return if you carefully selected it but I think it is unlikely your best investment. Even mutual fund is tied to policies to hit certain turnover etc. just like our EPF. If at one time market panic, many holders redeem for cash, the fund has to sell down the equity to fund the redemption even the fund manager thinks it is the worst time to let go the stock.
SUSxander83
post Apr 8 2022, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 8 2022, 08:28 PM)
I have the contrarian view. If you are really lucky, you get in at the right time and your fund manager gets everything right. But I think this chance is low for most ordinary ppl like me. So far I have not heard anyone gets rich because he bought a mutual fund. It can be part of your portfolio with a moderate return if you carefully selected it but I think it is unlikely your best investment. Even mutual fund is tied to policies to hit certain turnover etc. just like our EPF. If at one time market panic, many holders redeem for cash, the fund has to sell down the equity to fund the redemption even the fund manager thinks it is the worst time to let go the stock.
*
A very good example EPF recent special withdraw which now forces them to cash out and sell Bursa holdings to fund it even though market starting to recover now doh.gif
sgh
post Apr 8 2022, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 8 2022, 08:28 PM)
I have the contrarian view. If you are really lucky, you get in at the right time and your fund manager gets everything right. But I think this chance is low for most ordinary ppl like me. So far I have not heard anyone gets rich because he bought a mutual fund. It can be part of your portfolio with a moderate return if you carefully selected it but I think it is unlikely your best investment. Even mutual fund is tied to policies to hit certain turnover etc. just like our EPF. If at one time market panic, many holders redeem for cash, the fund has to sell down the equity to fund the redemption even the fund manager thinks it is the worst time to let go the stock.
*
I am not here to argue whether ETF can make one richer than mutual fund. I am replying to your earlier post how you describe fund is forced to buy what is in the index. That description fit an index tracking ETF than mutual fund.

Now you add new topic about mutual fund flaws for which there are for ETF too. Already point out the flaw of index tracking ETF if all stocks perform bad ETF price drop unless non-performing stock is dropped from index else the index tracking ETF has to buy it to fulfill its mandate as a low cost index tracking ETF.
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post Apr 9 2022, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 8 2022, 07:10 PM)
Avoid China tech for a while. All latest China fund factsheet I have shown fund managers all have shifted to Industrials, Consumer Cyclicals as top sector and tech is relegated to maybe 4th or 5th position. This mean fund manager are also actively avoiding the China tech sector. In times of crisis we witness fund managers doing the hard work.

For index tracking ETF too bad hard for them to avoid if all stocks in the index all perform badly UNLESS can remove those non-performing stocks from the index so the ETF no need to buy those stocks ?
*
No available china industrial ETF to buy.. No idea which stock to start with also. All of China ETF contain tech inside.
Medufsaid
post Apr 9 2022, 10:47 AM

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for irish domiciled ETFs, the normal trading hours follows British working hours time?
chiacp
post Apr 9 2022, 11:42 AM

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As a boglehead, there are a couple of investment philosophy i believe in.
1. Long term buy and hold is the best policy.
2. Costs is BAD. Therefore frequent trading just increases cost.
3. Diversification ie. Buying the whole market to hedge against all scenarios (as much as possible)

I dont pretend to be better than the anyone else in stock picking; over long term, the "best" active managers has NOT done better than a passively held whole market low cost ETF.
I dont know whats the next top stocks or what the interest rate going to be. Nor do I care to crack my head trying to research them.
Investing is ensure more free time to do what is important to me and have a good night's sleep without looking at what the stock markets are doing on a regular basis.
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post Apr 9 2022, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 9 2022, 09:40 AM)
No available china industrial ETF to buy.. No idea which stock to start with also. All of China ETF contain tech inside.
*
Sometimes it is wise to diversify investment instruments. ETF mutual fund individual stock etc. For China ETF I think HKEX quite a lot but if you use IBKR the fees not that cheap. IBKR mainly for US trading. Tiger moomoo also not cheap basically HKEX China A shares yet to find cheap 35 cents fee.

I am eyeing HKEX Global X Electric Vehicle ETF although in SGX NikkoAM also launch one equivalent to compete. EV not tech correct?
SUSTOS
post Apr 9 2022, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Apr 9 2022, 10:47 AM)
for irish domiciled ETFs, the normal trading hours follows British working hours time?
*
Depends on where the Irish domiciled ETF is listed. If you buy it on LSE, then follow LSE trading hours. If listed on Deutsche Borse, then follow Deutsche borse trading hours.

If listed in Mexico, then follow Mexican Bolsa trading hours.

This is LSE trading hours: https://www.tradinghours.com/markets/lse/hours You can find other exchanges' trading hours too on the same website.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 9 2022, 01:37 PM
naranjero P
post Apr 9 2022, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(chiacp @ Apr 9 2022, 11:42 AM)
As a boglehead, there are a couple of investment philosophy i believe in.
1. Long term buy and hold is the best policy.
2. Costs is BAD. Therefore frequent trading just increases cost.
3. Diversification ie. Buying the  whole market to hedge against all scenarios (as much as possible)

I dont pretend to be better than the anyone else in stock picking; over long term, the "best" active managers has NOT done better than a passively held whole market low cost ETF.
I dont know whats the next top stocks or what the interest rate going to be. Nor do I care to crack my head trying to research them.
Investing is ensure more free time to do what is important to me and have a good night's sleep without looking at what the stock markets are doing on a regular  basis.
*
Our philosophy are the same.

It's not saying it is impossible to analyze and the company and the economy, just I think that it will take too much effort from us to do so in order to outperform the market. Unless treat it as a intellectual challenge or passion then I guess it is fine.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 9 2022, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(chiacp @ Apr 9 2022, 11:42 AM)
As a boglehead, there are a couple of investment philosophy i believe in.
1. Long term buy and hold is the best policy.
2. Costs is BAD. Therefore frequent trading just increases cost.
3. Diversification ie. Buying the  whole market to hedge against all scenarios (as much as possible)

I dont pretend to be better than the anyone else in stock picking; over long term, the "best" active managers has NOT done better than a passively held whole market low cost ETF.
I dont know whats the next top stocks or what the interest rate going to be. Nor do I care to crack my head trying to research them.
Investing is ensure more free time to do what is important to me and have a good night's sleep without looking at what the stock markets are doing on a regular  basis.
*
That's the spirit. Buy and hold the entire haystack, earn average return, don't take uncompensated risks, be productive in life instead. Check account upon retirement biggrin.gif
jutamind
post Apr 9 2022, 03:29 PM

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Just an open question, for those opting to buying stocks/ETF via foreign trading platform, what's your plan for estate planning just in case we KO unexpectedly/prematurely? Does your family members/spouse have the capability to manage your portfolio/repatriate your money back to Malaysia by themselves?

This is the only factor that prevent me from investing big amount in foreign trading platform and opt for local robo/local based US trading platform
sgh
post Apr 9 2022, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Apr 9 2022, 03:29 PM)
Just an open question, for those opting to buying stocks/ETF via foreign trading platform, what's your plan for estate planning just in case we KO unexpectedly/prematurely? Does your family members/spouse have the capability to manage your portfolio/repatriate your money back to Malaysia by themselves?

This is the only factor that prevent me from investing big amount in foreign trading platform and opt for local robo/local based US trading platform
*
You ask a valid question but based on what I guess from the active readers in here they are not that old like those 50-60 for which I am joining soon. They are at best late 30s? Hope to read a reader in age 50-60 comment as your question will apply higher probability for them?

As for me let me reply I share the same view as you which is why I have yet to DIY via foreign brokers prefer a local. To access overseas just use local broker like FSM Spore,Endowus for ETF,stocks etc.
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post Apr 9 2022, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 9 2022, 12:12 PM)
Sometimes it is wise to diversify investment instruments. ETF mutual fund individual stock etc. For China ETF I think HKEX quite a lot but if you use IBKR the fees not that cheap. IBKR mainly for US trading. Tiger moomoo also not cheap basically HKEX China A shares yet to find cheap 35 cents fee.

I am eyeing HKEX Global X Electric Vehicle ETF although in SGX NikkoAM also launch one equivalent to compete. EV not tech correct?
*
Not exactly as you need to see their core business doh.gif

BYD is consider industrials even though they are EV direction now

Nio , Li Auto or Xpeng are considered tech companies in USADRs
jutamind
post Apr 9 2022, 08:24 PM

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I think COVID changed the perception that only old fellas die first hence the lack of focus on estate planning. Imagine that you're in your 30s with young family and passed away due to Covid and most of your assets are in oversea with your spouse not familiar with all these financial stuff. Can't really imagine the hardship the young family has to suffer

QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 9 2022, 04:30 PM)
You ask a valid question but based on what I guess from the active readers in here they are not that old like those 50-60 for which I am joining soon. They are at best late 30s? Hope to read a reader in age 50-60 comment as your question will apply higher probability for them?

As for me let me reply I share the same view as you which is why I have yet to DIY via foreign brokers prefer a local. To access overseas just use local broker like FSM Spore,Endowus  for ETF,stocks etc.
*
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 10 2022, 06:03 AM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Apr 9 2022, 03:29 PM)
Just an open question, for those opting to buying stocks/ETF via foreign trading platform, what's your plan for estate planning just in case we KO unexpectedly/prematurely? Does your family members/spouse have the capability to manage your portfolio/repatriate your money back to Malaysia by themselves?

This is the only factor that prevent me from investing big amount in foreign trading platform and opt for local robo/local based US trading platform
*
Hmm, I am a little on the younger side, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is, or perhaps people would think less of me for being on the paranoid side, but I'll share it anyway.

First of all, I invest primarily in VWRA, an Irish-domiciled ETF. I will never have an holding of more than 60k in US stocks/ETF/cash in my IBKR account so I shouldn't be liable for any US estate tax concerns.
I've told my close family that I have foreign investment, and that in the event of my demise, they are free to help themselves to it, at least I would have paid for my own funeral.

As a backup plan, I've also prepared a document detailing my access info, screenshots of how to liquidate my portfolio, my withdrawal routes, as well as instructions on how to contact IBKR for assistance should they are unable to or unwilling to pretend to be me and access my funds. Of course, there's always an option to proceed with my will and death certificate to access it legally - if it does come to this, and they find it worth the trouble.

The document is then stored in an encrypted volume requiring PASSWORD_A, attached to my gmail on scheduled send in 6 months, and also stored in a physical thumbdrive, mentions that password will be emailed in 1 month.
Then in another gmail account, PASSWORD_A is also on scheduled send in 7 months.
Then, I set an reminder to myself to renew the send date every 5 or so months to keep it from sending out until I die, acting like a dead man's switch.

This should keep my access detail safe even if I made a mistake now and then (e.g. forget to renew encrypted volume send date), stolen, or my relationship with my family deteriorates in the future.

If it sounds mega paranoid, it is. I am a selfish person and my benefits should always comes first above all else. I wouldn't trust a second soul to access any of my finances as long I am still alive. I've seen enough bad story regarding family and money as it is.

TL;DR: Family is aware of where I am invested, will have access to my investment as soon as my death certificate is issued, or in 7 months as a backup.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 10 2022, 06:08 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 10 2022, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 10 2022, 06:03 AM)
Hmm, I am a little on the younger side, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is, or perhaps people would think less of me for being on the paranoid side, but I'll share it anyway.

First of all, I invest primarily in VWRA, an Irish-domiciled ETF. I will never have an holding of more than 60k in US stocks/ETF/cash in my IBKR account so I shouldn't be liable for any US estate tax concerns.
I've told my close family that I have foreign investment, and that in the event of my demise, they are free to help themselves to it, at least I would have paid for my own funeral.

As a backup plan, I've also prepared a document detailing my access info, screenshots of how to liquidate my portfolio, my withdrawal routes, as well as instructions on how to contact IBKR for assistance should they are unable to or unwilling to pretend to be me and access my funds. Of course, there's always an option to proceed with my will and death certificate to access it legally - if it does come to this, and they find it worth the trouble.

The document is then stored in an encrypted volume requiring PASSWORD_A, attached to my gmail on scheduled send in 6 months, and also stored in a physical thumbdrive, mentions that password will be emailed in 1 month.
Then in another gmail account, PASSWORD_A is also on scheduled send in 7 months.
Then, I set an reminder to myself to renew the send date every 5 or so months to keep it from sending out until I die, acting like a dead man's switch.

This should keep my access detail safe even if I made a mistake now and then (e.g. forget to renew encrypted volume send date), stolen, or my relationship with my family deteriorates in the future.

If it sounds mega paranoid, it is. I am a selfish person and my benefits should always comes first above all else. I wouldn't trust a second soul to access any of my finances as long I am still alive. I've seen enough bad story regarding family and money as it is.

TL;DR: Family is aware of where I am invested, will have access to my investment as soon as my death certificate is issued, or in 7 months as a backup.
*
Well, that is alot of work. But needed none the less.

👀
Davidtcf
post Apr 10 2022, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 9 2022, 12:12 PM)
Sometimes it is wise to diversify investment instruments. ETF mutual fund individual stock etc. For China ETF I think HKEX quite a lot but if you use IBKR the fees not that cheap. IBKR mainly for US trading. Tiger moomoo also not cheap basically HKEX China A shares yet to find cheap 35 cents fee.

I am eyeing HKEX Global X Electric Vehicle ETF although in SGX NikkoAM also launch one equivalent to compete. EV not tech correct?
*
I’ll pass for China till more good news arrive for their administration:
https://tfiglobalnews.com/2022/04/09/china-...ican-investors/
SUSyklooi
post Apr 10 2022, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 10 2022, 06:03 AM)
Hmm, I am a little on the younger side, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is, or perhaps people would think less of me for being on the paranoid side, but I'll share it anyway.

First of all, I invest primarily in VWRA, an Irish-domiciled ETF. I will never have an holding of more than 60k in US stocks/ETF/cash in my IBKR account so I shouldn't be liable for any US estate tax concerns.
I've told my close family that I have foreign investment, and that in the event of my demise, they are free to help themselves to it, at least I would have paid for my own funeral.

As a backup plan, I've also prepared a document detailing my access info, screenshots of how to liquidate my portfolio, my withdrawal routes, as well as instructions on how to contact IBKR for assistance should they are unable to or unwilling to pretend to be me and access my funds. Of course, there's always an option to proceed with my will and death certificate to access it legally - if it does come to this, and they find it worth the trouble.

The document is then stored in an encrypted volume requiring PASSWORD_A, attached to my gmail on scheduled send in 6 months, and also stored in a physical thumbdrive, mentions that password will be emailed in 1 month.
Then in another gmail account, PASSWORD_A is also on scheduled send in 7 months.
Then, I set an reminder to myself to renew the send date every 5 or so months to keep it from sending out until I die, acting like a dead man's switch.

This should keep my access detail safe even if I made a mistake now and then (e.g. forget to renew encrypted volume send date), stolen, or my relationship with my family deteriorates in the future.

If it sounds mega paranoid, it is. I am a selfish person and my benefits should always comes first above all else. I wouldn't trust a second soul to access any of my finances as long I am still alive. I've seen enough bad story regarding family and money as it is.

TL;DR: Family is aware of where I am invested, will have access to my investment as soon as my death certificate is issued, or in 7 months as a backup.
*
Just another just in case scenario,... What if you did not die but just incapacitated,... Unable to communicates.... Does Yr family members has access to Yr password so as the liquidate some investment money for you to use?
Davidtcf
post Apr 10 2022, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Apr 10 2022, 11:20 AM)
Just another just in case scenario,... What if you did not die but just incapacitated,... Unable to communicates.... Does Yr family members has access to Yr password so as the liquidate some investment money for you to use?
*
From what he wrote it seems he will not share his passwords as long he’s still alive. Meaning using lawyer letter or death cert to claim those investment. If so it will incur 40% estate tax if investments are in IBKR.

If you trust your loved ones enough then you can share the logins. Even if they were to access and sell all your shares they can’t withdraw to their own account.. need to withdraw to account with same name.

But sometimes is not about the greed part.. is how some family members might make noise, lecture you, keep probe and criticise etc type. If so I understand why some would not want to share their logins also.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 10 2022, 11:41 AM
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post Apr 10 2022, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 10 2022, 11:41 AM)
From what he wrote it seems he will not share his passwords as long he’s still alive. Meaning using lawyer letter or death cert to claim those investment. If so it will incur 40% estate tax if investments are in IBKR.

If you trust your loved ones enough then you can share the logins. Even if they were to access and sell all your shares they can’t withdraw to their own account.. need to withdraw to account with same name.

But sometimes is not about the greed part.. is how some family members might make noise, lecture you, keep probe and criticise etc type. If so I understand why some would not want to share their logins also.
*
Cuuently my spouse has my bank access password n the token unit (for TAC).

Hoshiyuu
post Apr 10 2022, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 10 2022, 10:48 AM)
Well, that is alot of work. But needed none the less.

👀
*
It's just a one time setup, I believe it took me a day to get everything in order - maintenance is about 5min every 5 or so months. It's alright I guess? I tried to minimize the effort needed to maintain it so I would maintain it, haha.

QUOTE(yklooi @ Apr 10 2022, 11:20 AM)
Just another just in case scenario,... What if you did not die but just incapacitated,... Unable to communicates.... Does Yr family members has access to Yr password so as the liquidate some investment money for you to use?
*
Well, if I am incapacitated enough that I couldn't reset my dead man's switch, they would get access to my account in 6 months. If I am incapacitated to that point I would be at their mercy regardless, which I do hope I will have a good enough relationship to be in their care without being taken advantage of.

QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 10 2022, 11:41 AM)
From what he wrote it seems he will not share his passwords as long he’s still alive. Meaning using lawyer letter or death cert to claim those investment. If so it will incur 40% estate tax if investments are in IBKR.

If you trust your loved ones enough then you can share the logins. Even if they were to access and sell all your shares they can’t withdraw to their own account.. need to withdraw to account with same name.

But sometimes is not about the greed part.. is how some family members might make noise, lecture you, keep probe and criticise etc type. If so I understand why some would not want to share their logins also.
*
My will is only applicable at my death, and I believe estate tax will not be applicable to my fund in any scenario. Unless you have something in mind that I may have missed? I would very much appreciate the advice.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 10 2022, 12:19 PM
Toku
post Apr 11 2022, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 8 2022, 11:41 PM)
I am not here to argue whether ETF can make one richer than mutual fund. I am replying to your earlier post how you describe fund is forced to buy what is in the index. That description fit an index tracking ETF than mutual fund.

Now you add new topic about mutual fund flaws for which there are for ETF too. Already point out the flaw of index tracking ETF if all stocks perform bad ETF price drop unless non-performing stock is dropped from index else the index tracking ETF has to buy it to fulfill its mandate as a low cost index tracking ETF.
*
Sorry, my bad. May be I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you are saying only ETF has issue but not mutual fund. That's why I want to point out that mutual fund also has other issue. It's cool. Thanks for sharing the same view.
SUSxander83
post Apr 11 2022, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 10 2022, 12:19 PM)
It's just a one time setup, I believe it took me a day to get everything in order - maintenance is about 5min every 5 or so months. It's alright I guess? I tried to minimize the effort needed to maintain it so I would maintain it, haha.
Well, if I am incapacitated enough that I couldn't reset my dead man's switch, they would get access to my account in 6 months. If I am incapacitated to that point I would be at their mercy regardless, which I do hope I will have a good enough relationship to be in their care without being taken advantage of.
My will is only applicable at my death, and I believe estate tax will not be applicable to my fund in any scenario. Unless you have something in mind that I may have missed? I would very much appreciate the advice.
*
WAIT till you get married then you will change your mindset of this doh.gif

I wonder how on earth you gonna setup your EPF nominee with such mindset
sgh
post Apr 11 2022, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 11 2022, 04:14 PM)
WAIT till you get married then you will change your mindset of this  doh.gif

I wonder how on earth you gonna setup your EPF nominee with such mindset
*
Now is year 2022 new era ppl are not so fixated on marriage they pursue solo freedom and happiness which mean can really be single all the way till death. It is a choice now compared to olden times. I will respect their choice. As to how they explain to their parents I guess they need find a way somehow.
DragonReine
post Apr 11 2022, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(xander83 @ Apr 11 2022, 04:14 PM)
WAIT till you get married then you will change your mindset of this  doh.gif

I wonder how on earth you gonna setup your EPF nominee with such mindset
*
Even married people these days keep finances separate, and it's not like it's THAT complicated if they decide to change nomination/will arrangements.

The above makes sense from a single person perspective who don't trust family taking advantage of their wealth, might be complicated but that's their choice.
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post Apr 11 2022, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Apr 10 2022, 11:44 AM)
Cuuently my spouse has my bank access password n the token unit (for TAC).
*
Ic. If you trust enough then ok to go ahead, since that person holding your bank access but didn’t abuse it.

Me and my wife has separate bank accounts and we don’t share access.. heck won’t know exactly what each have inside also haha.

If I die one day before her she can ask lawyer help to access my bank accounts, even without will as long we remained married.. so I don’t feel need to grant her access while I’m still alive.

I know some people might even have one account where both husband and wife share it.. we are not at that level 😅 if wanna invest that time sure headache also will this setup.. in the end still need account under own name.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 12 2022, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 11 2022, 06:45 PM)
Now is year 2022 new era ppl are not so fixated on marriage they pursue solo freedom and happiness which mean can really be single all the way till death. It is a choice now compared to olden times. I will respect their choice. As to how they explain to their parents I guess they need find a way somehow.
*
QUOTE(DragonReine @ Apr 11 2022, 07:25 PM)
Even married people these days keep finances separate, and it's not like it's THAT complicated if they decide to change nomination/will arrangements.

The above makes sense from a single person perspective who don't trust family taking advantage of their wealth, might be complicated but that's their choice.
*
Pretty much, yeah. I'll be looking for a great roommate more than a classic wife, so to say. We will appreciate financial independence, we will be okay that we have both shared and personal finances, we will not have kids.
I've talking to my parents, and my dad's pretty modern and have 0 Chinese "the family-line have to go on" mentality, my mom slowly warmed up over the years as she saw more and more marriage and family fail around us. Didn't take much to convince them nor there were much objections, thankfully.

Plus, it only sounds complicated when you type it out like that biggrin.gif


QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 11 2022, 11:27 PM)
Ic. If you trust enough then ok to go ahead, since that person holding your bank access but didn’t abuse it.

Me and my wife has separate bank accounts and we don’t share access.. heck won’t know exactly what each have inside also haha.

If I die one day before her she can ask lawyer help to access my bank accounts, even without will as long we remained married.. so I don’t feel need to grant her access while I’m still alive.

I know some people might even have one account where both husband and wife share it.. we are not at that level 😅 if wanna invest that time sure headache also will this setup.. in the end still need account under own name.
*
Completely opposite of me, my parents have full trust and confidence in each other. I am pretty sure my dad just tosses everything he makes to my mom let her manage everything finance related, hahaha. This does mean he does occasionally need to ask for money (that he made) for cigarettes at times.
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 12 2022, 02:07 AM

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For those who are concerned:

QUOTE(IBKR)
IB does not determine the Estate procedure and handling of your account. Rather, the laws in your part of Malaysia do. For any tax questions, it's best to discuss those matters with a qualified tax advisor in your country. IB does not withhold any Estate taxes.
If IB receives Letters Testamentary, will will pay out to your Estate. If IB receives a Certificate of Inheritance, we'll pay out to the listed heirs.

Thank you, Patrick R
IB Estate Services
This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 12 2022, 02:08 AM
SUSTOS
post Apr 12 2022, 12:51 PM

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post Apr 12 2022, 10:03 PM

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According to this bogleheads write-up (Link), if you invest in non-US domiciled ETF and are neither US citizen, US green card holder nor US tax resident, then you may not be subjected to US Estate Tax for holdings over $60,000. However, there is a big caveat: your broker cannot be US based. Otherwise, you will still be limited to the $60,000 holdings where the US Estate Tax will still apply to anything over that.

QUOTE
Eliminating the US estate tax trap
Warning: This is a major US tax trap, and one that you should try your utmost to avoid.
If you die while holding US situated assets, the US can apply an estate tax of up to 40% of the balance above a $60,000 exemption.[2] However, when you hold ETFs domiciled in Ireland or another non-US domicile, you do not directly hold any US assets. This means that you are now entirely protected from unpleasant US estate tax surprises. The US estate tax cannot 'look through' a fund or ETF to the ultimate individual owner of shares in that fund or ETF.

Most popular non-US domiciled ETFs can be purchased on the London Stock Exchange and the Euronext exchange, so you will need to find a broker that offers the appropriate exchanges. Interactive Brokers is a popular choice for many, but be aware that it is US based. This means that you should avoid holding more than $60,000 in cash at this broker, otherwise US estate taxes again become an issue.[8]


So if you plan to have more than $60,000 invested, perhaps it will be better to find other brokers which are non-US based. Or, perhaps with in-depth knowledge of the intricacy of US taxation system and proper planning, there are certain steps that can be taken to repatriate your monies back to Malaysia soil while avoiding detection in the event of an unexpected death. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the other hand, there are conflicting information on the internet (Link) where due to certain technicalities, buying Ireland domicile ETFs automatically protects you from US Estate Tax, no matter the holdings amount, even if done through a US-based broker. Perhaps it has something to do with the ETF structure is itself a "foreign corporation". So in this case if your holdings is greater than $60,000 but is:
1. Ireland domiciled ETF traded through a US-based broker = not subjected to US Estate Tax
2. Individual US corporation stocks traded directly through a US-based broker = subjected to US Estate Tax.

Perhaps also the boglehead wiki quoted above is only referring to the circumstances where one is invested in Ireland domiciled ETF but also kept more than $60,000 in cash in the US broker. In this case:
1. Cash amount over $60,000 will be subjected to the US Estate Tax.
2. ETF, irregardless of the amount, is not subjected to the US Estate Tax.

In any case, I am not a financial consultant. Therefore, take all these information with a grain of salt. Do note that this information may only be true at the time of this writing as US taxation laws may change anytime if the US Government wants to rake in more money, what more 20-30 years to come.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Apr 13 2022, 02:15 AM
rEvivEd-
post Apr 19 2022, 10:20 AM

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Hi guys newbie to trading here.

My plan to start @ 10K into ETF ( looking at CSPX or VWRA) or is there another ETF or combinations I should look at?

Onwards I’ll prolly DCA into the etf that I am putting into.

Which is the best path / route should I take.

TIA
Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 10:58 AM

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If is me personally, I will just buy QQQ. Once it reached 100 shares, just sell covered calls on it to generate weekly/monthly income in place of dividends.
rEvivEd-
post Apr 19 2022, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 19 2022, 10:58 AM)
If is me personally, I will just buy QQQ. Once it reached 100 shares, just sell covered calls on it to generate weekly/monthly income in place of dividends.
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by 100 shares you mean , 300USD x 100 unit of shares?
Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 19 2022, 11:00 AM)
by 100 shares you mean , 300USD x 100 unit of shares?
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Yes. If you continue to invest, overtime sure you will get up to 100 shares. It's impossible not to get up to 100 shares if you are a net buyer over time.
Medufsaid
post Apr 19 2022, 11:07 AM

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yea... $338.69 * 100 * RM4.25 is only RM143,943.25. i know it takes a long time to even save that much, but it's not much. can't even retire or anything. the risk premium you collect from covered calls won't be taxed

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Apr 19 2022, 11:08 AM
cucumber
post Apr 19 2022, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 19 2022, 10:58 AM)
If is me personally, I will just buy QQQ. Once it reached 100 shares, just sell covered calls on it to generate weekly/monthly income in place of dividends.
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Do you have any particular strategies when selling calls? How often does your shares get called away?

This post has been edited by cucumber: Apr 19 2022, 11:17 AM
Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(cucumber @ Apr 19 2022, 11:15 AM)
Do you have any particular strategy when selling calls? How often do your shares get called away?
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Yes. My strategy is don't be so aggressive. Accept between usd20-40/week depending on what stock I am doing call on. And I only do covered calls and covered puts.

I will say 2/10 times. Majority just expires worthless. Sometimes like market rocket up, can't do anything about it.
If called away, just sell put at the price called away.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Apr 19 2022, 11:24 AM
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post Apr 19 2022, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 19 2022, 10:20 AM)
Hi guys newbie to trading here.

My plan to start @ 10K into ETF ( looking at CSPX or VWRA) or is there another ETF or combinations I should look at?

Onwards I’ll prolly DCA into the etf that I am putting into.

Which is the best path / route should I take.

TIA
*
Just to balance out the discussion, my two cents as a staunch supporter of the Bogleheads philosophy will always be VWRA and chill, spend the time maximizing your income and enjoy life.

With my full respects and as Ramjade may have mentioned that it's not for everyone - while selling options is a solid income sources, do not mistake it as effortless free lunch. Going in without proper homework and an already large enough capital may not be the best of ideas. Plus, there is also a small chance that the premiums you've earned might be lower than just simply holding it when market is in bull season.

I have my eyes set on that income sources too, but personally, I wouldn't treat the underlying securities as the backbone of my portfolio, and I would only do it when I can easily afford multiple contracts with just 20% of my portfolio, probably in my latter years when I have retired from my day job.

Criticism, corrections and discussion very much welcomed! I am happy to learn more and even happier to be corrected.
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post Apr 19 2022, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 19 2022, 10:58 AM)
If is me personally, I will just buy QQQ. Once it reached 100 shares, just sell covered calls on it to generate weekly/monthly income in place of dividends.
*
Hmm, is there a tutorial for this covered calls or simple explanation?

Just want to increase my knowledge. 👀
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post Apr 19 2022, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 19 2022, 12:46 PM)
Hmm, is there a tutorial for this covered calls or simple explanation?

Just want to increase my knowledge. 👀
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Can try watching the tutorials by Kelvin Learns Investing on YouTube for a start..
Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 19 2022, 12:46 PM)
Hmm, is there a tutorial for this covered calls or simple explanation?

Just want to increase my knowledge. 👀
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Watch YouTube.

QUOTE(JJ93 @ Apr 19 2022, 01:13 PM)
Can try watching the tutorials by Kelvin Learns Investing on YouTube for a start..
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I will avoid Singaporean YouTuber as they
1. They sell courses
2. Better channels exist
3. They just copy from Western YouTubers.

I learn via everything options and benjie. If you want to get options basic, then start pandrea finance. Each video about 20 minutes long and a bit dry.

The only Singaporean YouTuber I watch is chicken genius.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Apr 19 2022, 01:29 PM
Yggdrasil
post Apr 19 2022, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Apr 12 2022, 10:03 PM)
According to this bogleheads write-up (Link), if you invest in non-US domiciled ETF and are neither US citizen, US green card holder nor US tax resident, then you may not be subjected to US Estate Tax for holdings over $60,000. However, there is a big caveat: your broker cannot be US based. Otherwise, you will still be limited to the $60,000 holdings where the US Estate Tax will still apply to anything over that.
So if you plan to have more than $60,000 invested, perhaps it will be better to find other brokers which are non-US based. Or, perhaps with in-depth knowledge of the intricacy of US taxation system and proper planning, there are certain steps that can be taken to repatriate your monies back to Malaysia soil while avoiding detection in the event of an unexpected death.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I think it also depends on where is the entity established and who is the custodian i.e. where your securities are stored.
Mine is IBKR (UK) and not IBKR (US). Plan to move to IBKR (SG) if they allow in future.
Yggdrasil
post Apr 19 2022, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 10 2022, 06:03 AM)
Hmm, I am a little on the younger side, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is, or perhaps people would think less of me for being on the paranoid side, but I'll share it anyway.

First of all, I invest primarily in VWRA, an Irish-domiciled ETF. I will never have an holding of more than 60k in US stocks/ETF/cash in my IBKR account so I shouldn't be liable for any US estate tax concerns.
I've told my close family that I have foreign investment, and that in the event of my demise, they are free to help themselves to it, at least I would have paid for my own funeral.

As a backup plan, I've also prepared a document detailing my access info, screenshots of how to liquidate my portfolio, my withdrawal routes, as well as instructions on how to contact IBKR for assistance should they are unable to or unwilling to pretend to be me and access my funds. Of course, there's always an option to proceed with my will and death certificate to access it legally - if it does come to this, and they find it worth the trouble.

The document is then stored in an encrypted volume requiring PASSWORD_A, attached to my gmail on scheduled send in 6 months, and also stored in a physical thumbdrive, mentions that password will be emailed in 1 month.
Then in another gmail account, PASSWORD_A is also on scheduled send in 7 months.
Then, I set an reminder to myself to renew the send date every 5 or so months to keep it from sending out until I die, acting like a dead man's switch.

This should keep my access detail safe even if I made a mistake now and then (e.g. forget to renew encrypted volume send date), stolen, or my relationship with my family deteriorates in the future.

If it sounds mega paranoid, it is. I am a selfish person and my benefits should always comes first above all else. I wouldn't trust a second soul to access any of my finances as long I am still alive. I've seen enough bad story regarding family and money as it is.

TL;DR: Family is aware of where I am invested, will have access to my investment as soon as my death certificate is issued, or in 7 months as a backup.
*
I actually thought of doing this but will this be considered tax fraud?

Like if you date of death is 1/1/2022 and your family members sold your securities on 2/1/2022, it takes another 2 days to settle i.e. 4/1/2022. Then, they initiated a withdrawal on (5/1/2022) using your login but technically it is not you.

What if the IRS finds out about this. I favour US securities too because it's more liquid and the exhange fees are lower but the estate tax can be an issue in future.

Anyways, since you hold <$60k, you don't need to do any fancy things since there is no estate tax to begin with.
Also, I think capital gains above $60k will only be taxed. Not $60k investment.
SUSTOS
post Apr 19 2022, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(Yggdrasil @ Apr 19 2022, 01:42 PM)
I think it also depends on where is the entity established and who is the custodian i.e. where your securities are stored.
Mine is IBKR (UK) and not IBKR (US). Plan to move to IBKR (SG) if they allow in future.
*
So IBKR (UK) means I am not subject to US estate tax? (I transferred in from Tradestation Global.)
Medufsaid
post Apr 19 2022, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 19 2022, 12:46 PM)
Hmm, is there a tutorial for this covered calls or simple explanation?
*
i learnt from


Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Apr 19 2022, 02:15 PM)
i learnt from

*
This guy also not bad. I watched some of his videos.
rEvivEd-
post Apr 19 2022, 04:30 PM

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Hi guys, just for clarification.

What's a good amount if i were DCA to avoid overpaying fees?
Is it a minimum of 6K for each trade?
thanks

Sorry bad with calculations
Yggdrasil
post Apr 19 2022, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 19 2022, 02:10 PM)
So IBKR (UK) means I am not subject to US estate tax? (I transferred in from Tradestation Global.)
*
Not sure as I'm not an expert with US tax laws.
To be safe, just buy Irish domiciled funds with IBKR (non-US).
Alternatively, just sell when you're sick and about to die. tongue.gif
Medufsaid
post Apr 19 2022, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 19 2022, 04:30 PM)
Hi guys, just for clarification.

What's a good amount if i were DCA to avoid overpaying fees?
*
since this question is crossposted here, would this answer suffice? all welcomed to provide feedback
QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 19 2022, 09:17 AM)
E.g. If it cost you 1.7USD IBKR commission, 2USD forex fee, then your DCA amount should ideally be no lower than 740USD (~RM3000) or 370USD (~RM1500).
*
This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Apr 19 2022, 04:46 PM
rEvivEd-
post Apr 19 2022, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Apr 19 2022, 04:45 PM)
since this question is crossposted here, would this answer suffice? all welcomed to provide feedback
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Thanks for this.

Why is there 2 amount?
3000 or 1500.

Don’t quite understand the differences.

Sorry please clarify
Medufsaid
post Apr 19 2022, 05:25 PM

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if every DCA bullet is RM1,500, the transaction cost is 1% of your bullet. if you are able to allocate RM3k per DCA bullet, the cost is 0.5%

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Apr 19 2022, 05:26 PM
rEvivEd-
post Apr 19 2022, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Apr 19 2022, 05:25 PM)
if every DCA bullet is RM1,500, the transaction cost is 1% of your bullet. if you are able to allocate RM3k per DCA bullet, the cost is 0.5%
*
EDITED.

Think I figured it out.
thanks

This post has been edited by rEvivEd-: Apr 19 2022, 06:42 PM
Ramjade
post Apr 19 2022, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 19 2022, 04:30 PM)
Hi guys, just for clarification.

What's a good amount if i were DCA to avoid overpaying fees?
Is it a minimum of 6K for each trade?
thanks

Sorry bad with calculations
*
For me I collect until rm10k then I transfer over to ibkr.

From there once convert into USD/GBP, you can choose for frequent you want to DCA.

Personal advise when market is red, buy more. Dont be scared.
Davidtcf
post Apr 20 2022, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 19 2022, 06:30 PM)
EDITED.

Think I figured it out.
thanks
*
sometimes you have to see whether worth waiting so long or not.. to save 10k for most people would need a few mths.

Or if DCA in a shorter time period (yet smaller amount) more worth it? especially in a bear market now in the US where prices are near to or even below support levels.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 20 2022, 02:47 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 22 2022, 07:06 AM

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user posted image

Just a reminder that big, safe blue chips can pop too.

Buy the haystack, don't take uncompensated risks 👍

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 22 2022, 07:06 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 22 2022, 07:41 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 22 2022, 07:06 AM)
user posted image

Just a reminder that big, safe blue chips can pop too.

Buy the haystack, don't take uncompensated risks 👍
*
? 50% drop in value just like that?

Well,......
AthrunIJ
post Apr 22 2022, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 20 2022, 02:46 PM)
sometimes you have to see whether worth waiting so long or not.. to save 10k for most people would need a few mths.

Or if DCA in a shorter time period (yet smaller amount) more worth it? especially in a bear market now in the US where prices are near to or even below support levels.
*
What is your DCA amount in USD? 👀 Just curious 😆
Toku
post Apr 22 2022, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(Yggdrasil @ Apr 19 2022, 04:37 PM)
Not sure as I'm not an expert with US tax laws.
To be safe, just buy Irish domiciled funds with IBKR (non-US).
Alternatively, just sell when you're sick and about to die. tongue.gif
*
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/internation...ate-tax-returns
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i706na#en_...ublink100075478

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

Hope to give a clearer picture here.

According to IRS, no matter where the stock holding is, as long as it is a US incorporated stock it is subject to estate tax.
Interpret from this line, it seems non US incorporated stock in a US stock broker is not consider US situated asset and should not subject to US estate tax. Vice versa, US incorporated stock in a foreign broker is subject to US estate tax.

Also, deposit in the US branch of foreign corporation or deposit in a foreign branch of US bank is considered located outside of US. So generally if your broker provide cash sweep program, excess cash in your account will be swept to interest-bearing FDIC insured savings or checking accounts and you should be safe from US estate tax. TDA and IBKR do provide this cash sweep program.

https://www.ey.com/en_uk/ey-frank-hirth/how...aight%20forward.

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

According to Ernst & Young,
1. Shares of US incorporated entities and cash in broker account is subject to US estate tax.
2. Checking and savings accounts, US govt bonds, tax exempt municipal bonds and American depository receipts (ADRs) are not subject to US estate tax.
3. Best way to avoid US estate tax is to avoid holding US asset as an individual. It is better to hold it through corporate entities, partnership etc. however there may be costs or other tax implication in different jurisdictions.
4. Holding US shares in a non-US broker account will not offer any estate tax protection.
5. Even in the case total assets in US is below $60k, there are still procedures and long time taken for IRS to return the assets.
So best way probably like you said, just sell it when you are sick and about to die.

Not sure this information from EY is up to date. I saw this article posted 4May2021. Anyone from audit firm can update what is the latest?

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post Apr 22 2022, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 22 2022, 11:49 AM)
Hope to give a clearer picture here.

According to IRS, no matter where the stock holding is, as long as it is a US incorporated stock it is subject to estate tax.
Interpret from this line, it seems non US incorporated stock in a US stock broker is not consider US situated asset and should not subject to US estate tax. Vice versa, US incorporated stock in a foreign broker is subject to US estate tax.
Thanks for sharing I think such rules do apply to Spore who invested in US incorporated stock as it has also been discussed in Spore forums I have read but no one is certain for sure. All ask to check with your own tax advisor but come on who really can afford as a smalltime retail investor?

Key point to note is to diversify your investment. Don't all in to US incorporated stock in US,Europe etc exchanges. Have some non-US incorporated UT,ETF,stock in one overall total portfolio. Diversification this word crop up again and again in investment.
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post Apr 22 2022, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 22 2022, 07:06 AM)
user posted image

Just a reminder that big, safe blue chips can pop too.

Buy the haystack, don't take uncompensated risks 👍
*
Agree.. I tried buy 1 Google stock.. now see its price went down 300 USD.. is like a roller coaster ride. Haha.

Need to be patient for it to recover.
rEvivEd-
post Apr 22 2022, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 22 2022, 01:34 PM)
Agree.. I tried buy 1 Google stock.. now see its price went down 300 USD.. is like a roller coaster ride. Haha.

Need to be patient for it to recover.
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In the same boat as u are brother.

Hahah. How long you think the recover gonna take?
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post Apr 22 2022, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(rEvivEd- @ Apr 22 2022, 04:06 PM)
In the same boat as u are brother.

Hahah. How long you think the recover gonna take?
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26th April will be Google first quarter financial report. If they beat estimates then will go up some.

Really recover is when Fed stop increase interest rates. Shoot to the moon is when interest rate are lowered (when inflation report improves)

If Ukraine war stops also will see some improvement in the stock market (Best if Putin gets killed or sacked so that sanctions are over). Market hates uncertainty.

US stock market is still the best in the world. We just need to be patient and hold. Good stocks will recover and go up even higher one day.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 22 2022, 06:36 PM
sgh
post Apr 22 2022, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 22 2022, 06:36 PM)
If Ukraine war stops also will see some improvement in the stock market (Best if Putin gets killed or sacked so that sanctions are over). Market hates uncertainty.
The other way also possible Ukraine lost the war and be conquered and war stops. To us as long as war stops don't care which party win so world market can get back to normalcy.

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post Apr 22 2022, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 22 2022, 07:24 PM)
The other way also possible Ukraine lost the war and be conquered and war stops. To us as long as war stops don't care which party win so world market can get back to normalcy.
*
If Putin is still president, sanctions will still bite everyone though. Commodities and oil prices will remain high.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 22 2022, 07:58 PM
Hoshiyuu
post Apr 22 2022, 08:16 PM

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The Boglehead's take: It's all just noise, barely a blip in 10 years much less 30, stay the course.
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post Apr 24 2022, 03:03 PM

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Aha~ boglehead thread in lowyat forum. biggrin.gif

Btw, does anyone here implement factor investing in their portfolio?
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QUOTE(walau2020 @ Apr 24 2022, 03:03 PM)
Aha~ boglehead thread in lowyat forum.  biggrin.gif

Btw, does anyone here implement factor investing in their portfolio?
*
15% of my portfolio is small cap value-tilt (about twice the size of normal small cap allocation) implemented via factor filtered small cap ETFs provided by Avantis in a 60% US 40% ex-US ratio. (AVUV 9%, AVDV 6%)

Personally I don't believe it's a move a true purist Boglehead's would do, so I wouldn't recommend that actively to anyone here. But my reasoning for this allocation is that:

1. VWRA do not contain any small caps.

2. Large-medium caps and small-caps rotates in performance much like International and US performance rotates.

3. Unfiltered small caps Unfiltered small caps often have too much bad stocks dragging it's performance down.

So I'm only taking slightly more compensated risk to complement my portfolio and every so slightly increased the long term (~20y) expected rewards (~0.5% or so).

However my strong recommendation is still to avoid complexity as much as possible, and go with a life-long 2-fund portfolio of VWRA+(VAGU/AGGU).

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 24 2022, 03:48 PM
encikbuta
post Apr 24 2022, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 24 2022, 03:41 PM)
15% of my portfolio is small cap value-tilt (about twice the size of normal small cap allocation) implemented via factor filtered small cap ETFs provided by Avantis in a 60% US 40% ex-US ratio. (AVUV 9%, AVDV 6%)

Personally I don't believe it's a move a true purist Boglehead's would do, so I wouldn't recommend that actively to anyone here. But my reasoning for this allocation is that:

1. VWRA do not contain any small caps.

2. Large-medium caps and small-caps rotates in performance much like International and US performance rotates.

3. Unfiltered small caps Unfiltered small caps often have too much bad stocks dragging it's performance down.

So I'm only taking slightly more compensated risk to complement my portfolio and every so slightly increased the long term (~20y) expected rewards (~0.5% or so).

However my strong recommendation is still to avoid complexity as much as possible, and go with a life-long 2-fund portfolio of VWRA+(VAGU/AGGU).
*
oh cool, you're implementing the Rational Reminder Model Portfolio! I was looking into this but was a bit hesitant when i found out that AVDV does not invest in emerging markets (no China & South East Asia sad.gif) there is the VSS (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap ETF) but that is just small cap blend, not small cap value. that said, maybe EM market too inefficient so it's a challenge for the fund managers, lol.
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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Apr 24 2022, 10:21 PM)
oh cool, you're implementing the Rational Reminder Model Portfolio! I was looking into this but was a bit hesitant when i found out that AVDV does not invest in emerging markets (no China & South East Asia sad.gif) there is the VSS (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap ETF) but that is just small cap blend, not small cap value. that said, maybe EM market too inefficient so it's a challenge for the fund managers, lol.
*
Ah, I'm only implementing it on the small caps part of my portfolio (VWRA+AVUV+AVDV), while a proper RR factor tilted portfolio would apply it to large and medium caps too.

Emerging markets are generally one hell of a mixed bag leaning towards mostly negative anyway, so I am only interested in the large caps of EMs which are already included in VWRA - and I don't need factor tilting for that.

And yeah, I don't really see a reason to buy generic small cap or small cap blends - even among factor filtered ones, Avantis (basically Dimensional really) seems to be the only ones implementing the Fama French asset pricing model properly.

Still, kinda happy to meet folks who knows about Rational Reminder on this forum too.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 24 2022, 10:58 PM
Hoshiyuu
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With major indices going on a discount recently, I'd imagine there are a few investors thinking whether to act on the price changes or not, so here's my 2 cents:

It doesn't matter if you are a Boglehead. Stay the course.

Invest early, invest often, stay invested, time in the market beats timing the market.

That is to say, set up an amount you are comfortable to DCA in fixed interval, amend that amount when your financials changes. If you receive a windfall/a sudden sum of extra money that can be invested, invest all of them as early as you can.

If you insist on "buying on a discount"...

Best case scenario, you save a few bucks per share buying at the absolute dip, but the chances that you buying at the "right time" every time for the rest of your portfolio's life span is basically 0 so it's all gonna even out.

Worst case scenario... you miss the best days of the market that almost single handedly defines your total returns. miss the best days of the market.

user posted image


What if you just bought in at the worst possible time? The world's worst market timer

Should I hold onto my cash and wait for it to drop more? Buy the dip! (For lower returns?)

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Apr 27 2022, 10:16 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 27 2022, 10:33 AM

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Waiting for fund to buy in again. Sea of red this few weeks

Liquidated my SA to go full DIY

🤤

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 27 2022, 10:33 AM
Cubalagi
post Apr 28 2022, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 27 2022, 10:33 AM)
Waiting for fund to buy in again. Sea of red this few weeks

Liquidated my SA to go full DIY

🤤
*
What will.u be buying for your DIY portfolio?
AthrunIJ
post Apr 28 2022, 08:00 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 28 2022, 07:54 AM)
What will.u be buying for your DIY portfolio?
*
VWRA sort of growth stock and some REITs in Singapore as dividend stock.

Probably 2vwra to 1 Singapore REITs for now as monthly funds and forex is not very good at the moment.

After maybe when i achieved about 10k sgd of REIT then I will add/rotate to Singapore bank as dividend stock also.

All in all VWRA as growth and Singapore stocks as dividends stock for now. I still love my dividend stocks 🤤

By end of this year's I would probably also sell some local burse portfolio and continue to pump into above stocks. 😆

At least do not need to pay fees and can keeps most of the dividends.
🤤

Not sure if there is some comment regarding SA simple vs any other FD, MMF or bond that can be added in as diversification.👀

Do you have any comments?

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Apr 28 2022, 08:13 AM
Davidtcf
post Apr 28 2022, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Apr 28 2022, 08:00 AM)
VWRA sort of growth stock and some REITs in Singapore as dividend stock.

Probably 2vwra to 1 Singapore REITs for now as monthly funds and forex is not very good at the moment.

After maybe when i achieved about 10k sgd of REIT then I will add/rotate to Singapore bank as dividend stock also.

All in all VWRA as growth and Singapore stocks as dividends stock for now. I still love my dividend stocks 🤤

By end of this year's I would probably also sell some local burse portfolio and continue to pump into above stocks. 😆

At least do not need to pay fees and can keeps most of the dividends.
🤤

Not sure if there is some comment regarding SA simple vs any other FD, MMF or bond that can be added in as diversification.👀

Do you have any comments?
*
Up to 10% of your portfolio can put into Stablecoins to earn 15-20% APY. If got guts can try Anchor Protocol for 19.5% (myself I'm using USDC in Finblox for 15%). Our latest discussions here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5263492/+30

As to gambling in Bitcoin or other cryptos, I would suggest short term trade. Right now don't see them shooting up like last time. Or can avoid this altogether and just focus on stablecoins. IMO USDC is the safest due to tied to real USD and treasuries. I have less trust on algorithmic stablecoins like UST (Anchor).

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Apr 28 2022, 10:38 AM
AthrunIJ
post Apr 28 2022, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Apr 28 2022, 10:38 AM)
Up to 10% of your portfolio can put into Stablecoins to earn 15-20% APY. If got guts can try Anchor Protocol for 19.5% (myself I'm using USDC in Finblox for 15%). Our latest discussions here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5263492/+30

As to gambling in Bitcoin or other cryptos, I would suggest short term trade. Right now don't see them shooting up like last time. Or can avoid this altogether and just focus on stablecoins. IMO USDC is the safest due to tied to real USD and treasuries. I have less trust on algorithmic stablecoins like UST (Anchor).
*
Block chain tech I will invest in.

Coins on the other hand nope until there is some regulations. But thanks for the info 👍
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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 24 2022, 03:41 PM)
15% of my portfolio is small cap value-tilt (about twice the size of normal small cap allocation) implemented via factor filtered small cap ETFs provided by Avantis in a 60% US 40% ex-US ratio. (AVUV 9%, AVDV 6%)

Personally I don't believe it's a move a true purist Boglehead's would do, so I wouldn't recommend that actively to anyone here. But my reasoning for this allocation is that:

1. VWRA do not contain any small caps.

2. Large-medium caps and small-caps rotates in performance much like International and US performance rotates.

3. Unfiltered small caps Unfiltered small caps often have too much bad stocks dragging it's performance down.[/url]

So I'm only taking slightly more compensated risk to complement my portfolio and every so slightly increased the long term (~20y) expected rewards (~0.5% or so).

However my strong recommendation is still to avoid complexity as much as possible[/url], and go with a life-long 2-fund portfolio of VWRA+(VAGU/AGGU).
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My portfolio is the exact opposite of yours. biggrin.gif
Not only is my portfolio heavily skewed toward size, value, and momentum, but I'm also underweight US stock and overweight ex-US stocks. Yes, I sin a lot devil.gif
I only hold 15% of VWRA, 33% small value ETF (AVUV 10%, AVDV 10%, AVES 13%), 22% momentum ETF (11% QMOM, 11% IMOM), the remaining 30% are bonds.

This is definitely not a portfolio Boglehead recommends, but I think my decisions on these allocations is kinda reasonable. FFirst, there's plenty of evidence that the US is by far the most expensive stock market, and ex-US are dirt cheap. Given the current valuation of the US market, I think it makes more sense to overweight ex-US market rather than ‘blindly’’ following the market-cap weights.

Besides, many studies have found out that size, value and momentum are able to increase return over the long run (20-30 years). I do acknowledge that the factor investing might leads to decades of underperforming market returns (such as the poor performance of value stocks in the past decade), but for someone with an investment horizon of over 30 years, this shouldn't be a big deal.







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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Apr 24 2022, 10:21 PM)
oh cool, you're implementing the Rational Reminder Model Portfolio! I was looking into this but was a bit hesitant when i found out that AVDV does not invest in emerging markets (no China & South East Asia sad.gif) there is the VSS (Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap ETF) but that is just small cap blend, not small cap value. that said, maybe EM market too inefficient so it's a challenge for the fund managers, lol.
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If you want a small-cap ETF in emerging markets, you might consider DGS. However, DGS has high expense ratio of 0.63%, and the high dividend payout strategy is not friendly to non-US investors like us. sad.gif

Another emerging market value ETF is AVES, but it is more skewed towards mid-cap and large-cap companies.
KingArthurVI
post May 1 2022, 10:23 AM

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I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
MUM
post May 1 2022, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 10:23 AM)
I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
*
because, what is low now can still goes lower or stayed low for a long duration of time,..

these certain emergency funds has its purposes in your overall wealth portfolio... has their purpose changed since they are 1st set up?

unless that emergency funds has a value that could last your > 3 yrs or you can access your money in EPF soon...that is another equation in question liao...

Davidtcf
post May 1 2022, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 10:23 AM)
I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
*
It might go down even lower. Estimate another 4 more times interest rate will rise by Fed. As long inflation level is high.

You can prepare by putting some cash in IBKR, to prepare to buy when u feel it's the right time.
encikbuta
post May 1 2022, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 10:23 AM)
I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
*
lol, I had the exact same dilemma! Just think of every horrible scenario that involves touching your emergency fund and project it happening in the next few days. Quite morbid but it worked for me, haha.
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post May 1 2022, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 10:23 AM)
I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
*
Previously anything China don't touch now it is soon anything US don't touch. Wait it will go down further. Emergency fund don't touch please

Now I am touching countries outside US China small capital to try diversify away from China,US for new investment. Existing already invested stay put.
Hoshiyuu
post May 1 2022, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 10:23 AM)
I'm having a serious case of FOMO here with most index funds going on a discount of late. I just finished my home renovation and so need cash for paying the contractors. But also hurting from seeing everything being on discount... Fellow Bogleheads, anyone been in this situation before? What did you do to stop yourself from doing something stupid like liquidating certain "safer" emergency funds like backup FD to put into index funds at this time?
*
Don't time the market. When in doubt, zoom out.

Nobody knows if it's going to go up or down tomorrow - you could be dropping 100k into current price thinking it's 30% off, but it could just as well be the best price you will see in 10 years. Or, the ATH you bought at next month could be the last time you ever see this price for the rest of your life.

Let's say you miss this "dip" and the market goes up 10% in the following months when you can finally buy in again - the difference in 10-20 years is minimal at best, because you only won one coin toss, you will still need to go through the rest of the coin tosses.

Emergency fund is emergency fund, if it isn't an emergency, don't touch it. It's there to safe guard your investment and it's a key player in your portfolio.

Just make your regular deposits every month, do a lump sum if you had a windfall that you don't need right now. Don't invest money you need. Close the app and live your life, don't look at the market every day.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: May 1 2022, 02:49 PM
KingArthurVI
post May 1 2022, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ May 1 2022, 10:36 AM)
because, what is low now can still goes lower or stayed low for a long duration of time,..

these certain emergency funds has its purposes in your overall wealth portfolio... has their purpose changed since they are 1st set up?

unless that emergency funds has a value that could last your > 3 yrs or you can access your money in EPF soon...that is another equation in question liao...
*
QUOTE(Davidtcf @ May 1 2022, 11:17 AM)
It might go down even lower. Estimate another 4 more times interest rate will rise by Fed. As long inflation level is high.

You can prepare by putting some cash in IBKR, to prepare to buy when u feel it's the right time.
*
QUOTE(encikbuta @ May 1 2022, 11:34 AM)
lol, I had the exact same dilemma! Just think of every horrible scenario that involves touching your emergency fund and project it happening in the next few days. Quite morbid but it worked for me, haha.
*
QUOTE(sgh @ May 1 2022, 12:02 PM)
Previously anything China don't touch now it is soon anything US don't touch. Wait it will go down further. Emergency fund don't touch please

Now I am touching countries outside US China small capital to try diversify away from China,US for new investment. Existing already invested stay put.
*
QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 1 2022, 02:49 PM)
Don't time the market. When in doubt, zoom out.

Nobody knows if it's going to go up or down tomorrow - you could be dropping 100k into current price thinking it's 30% off, but it could just as well be the best price you will see in 10 years. Or, the ATH you bought at next month could be the last time you ever see this price for the rest of your life.

Let's say you miss this "dip" and the market goes up 10% in the following months when you can finally buy in again - the difference in 10-20 years is minimal at best, because you only won one coin toss, you will still need to go through the rest of the coin tosses.

Emergency fund is emergency fund, if it isn't an emergency, don't touch it. It's there to safe guard your investment and it's a key player in your portfolio.

Just make your regular deposits every month, do a lump sum if you had a windfall that you don't need right now. Don't invest money you need. Close the app and live your life, don't look at the market every day.
*
Wow. Thanks so much everyone. I didn’t expect so many responses. You have all helped strengthen my resolve thumbup.gif it’s hard to not time the market, but it’s what I’ll try to do moving forward.
Davidtcf
post May 1 2022, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(KingArthurVI @ May 1 2022, 05:16 PM)
Wow. Thanks so much everyone. I didn’t expect so many responses. You have all helped strengthen my resolve thumbup.gif it’s hard to not time the market, but it’s what I’ll try to do moving forward.
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Yea if you invest long term 5-10 years at least shouldn’t be a problem. Will recover any paper losses that time.

US economy will stabilise once inflation back to normal and Fed calms down. Ukraine war can’t last forever too..
TSalexkos
post May 2 2022, 05:13 PM

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The index fund concept was a novel one in the 70s, and many fund managers laughed at Bogle for his maiden First Index Fund. It was under subscribed, labelled as being unAmerican, a fund that is content with market return rather than seeking outperformance.

Hindsight is 20 20. If Bogle tried that in the 30s and 40s, the same era as Graham, both will very likely amend their strategies given the severe market condition at that time.

Fun fact: Graham was on margin on peak 28. He loss half of the fortune anyway soon after heeding a teacher to quickly liquidate his margin position. He became very defensive in his investing approach then, the popular book which then also influence the early approach of Buffett, ie the cigarbutt 40cents for a dollar investing.
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QUOTE(alexkos @ May 2 2022, 05:13 PM)
The index fund concept was a novel one in the 70s, and many fund managers laughed at Bogle for his maiden First Index Fund. It was under subscribed, labelled as being unAmerican, a fund that is content with market return rather than seeking outperformance.
The index fund concept is nice in theory but I notice its flaw. If majority of the stocks in the index perform poorly the index fund will reflect that accordingly too e.g kweb ETF saga. So this bring me to think there should be some active management to decide which stocks are to be included in the index. It cannot be say change once every few months? The word active will scare ppl as index supposed to be passive investing
Medufsaid
post May 2 2022, 07:42 PM

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ben felix says that when you buy an ETF, buy the general ETF and not industry specific ones. don't try to pick and choose. dominos actually outperformed all the other tech stocks

should be this video, sorry i've no time to double check. his videos are worth checking anyway


This post has been edited by Medufsaid: May 2 2022, 07:42 PM
Hoshiyuu
post May 2 2022, 07:48 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ May 2 2022, 07:42 PM)
ben felix says that when you buy an ETF, buy the general ETF and not industry specific ones. don't try to pick and choose. dominos actually outperformed all the other tech stocks

should be this video, sorry i've no time to double check. his videos are worth checking anyway

*
Yeap. As far as Bogleheads are concerned, when we mention "index funds" - we mean market weighted, broad based index. That's basically VT or its analogues only. With these index funds getting a meteoric rise in popularity, active fund managers has been trying to getting a piece of the pie by perverting the term, on top general investor confusion between Index Funds and ETF to muddle the discussion.

Sector betting is highly discouraged, that's why you don't ever see a proper Bogleheads recommending QQQ, KWEB, or god forbid, ARK funds ETFs.

There's investing, and then there's gambling, and degenerate gambling.

Hoshiyuu
post May 5 2022, 12:02 AM

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A great add-on to my previous post.

"If you’re excited about an investment, it’s probably not a good investment."

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: May 5 2022, 01:29 AM
Ramjade
post May 5 2022, 01:48 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 2 2022, 07:48 PM)
Yeap. As far as Bogleheads are concerned, when we mention "index funds" - we mean market weighted, broad based index. That's basically VT or its analogues only. With these index funds getting a meteoric rise in popularity, active fund managers has been trying to getting a piece of the pie by perverting the term, on top general investor confusion between Index Funds and ETF to muddle the discussion.

Sector betting is highly discouraged, that's why you don't ever see a proper Bogleheads recommending QQQ, KWEB, or god forbid, ARK funds ETFs.

There's investing, and then there's gambling, and degenerate gambling.
*
Qqq have outperform the sp500 by miles for years and will continue to do so in the future. If you believed those tech companies with net margin of 30-50% cannot outperform companies with mari of say 7%
encikbuta
post May 5 2022, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 5 2022, 01:48 AM)
Qqq have outperform the sp500 by miles for years and will continue to do so in the future. If you believed those tech companies with net margin of 30-50% cannot outperform companies with mari of say 7%
*
i was curious about your statement so i went to Portfolio Visualizer to verify. results below, dividend reinvested. like you said, the QQQ did incredibly well vs the S&P500 from 2010 - Present.

but stretch the time period from 2000 - Present and the story is a little different. QQQ (very slightly) underperforms the S&P500, lol.

but yea, who knows what the future might hold.

This post has been edited by encikbuta: May 5 2022, 10:25 AM


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Hoshiyuu
post May 7 2022, 05:17 AM

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https://gdcdyn.interactivebrokers.com/Unive...iew?formdb=4289

user posted image


If this applies to Irish domiciled LSE listed ETF, this is gonna be big for those who are buying VUSD purely because it has lower per share price.
Medufsaid
post May 7 2022, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ May 5 2022, 10:24 AM)
but stretch the time period from 2000 - Present and the story is a little different. QQQ (very slightly) underperforms the S&P500, lol.
*
so i guess the dot com crash made it underperform for many years.
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post May 7 2022, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ May 7 2022, 12:31 PM)
so i guess the dot com crash made it underperform for many years.
*
If u bought QQQ at the peak in 2000, you will only broke even 15 years later.

Let's hope the Nov 21 peak won't take so long .. 😆


This post has been edited by Cubalagi: May 7 2022, 09:25 PM
naranjero P
post May 9 2022, 12:30 PM

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Hello all Boglehead sifu here notworthy.gif

What are the effective method to prepare for next economic crisis/stock market crash? Asking for more general in a very long term, anything possible to happen will happen, consider it already happened many time in history.

-considering events like 1997 or 2008 crisis, global index drawdown could be >50% and take years to recover. Holding a fully diversified equity portfolio might hardly avoid that.
-deliberate allocation to gold, US treasury or other kind of asset particularly useful for crashes
-always have some dry powder ready
-"I can smell it before stock market crashes!"
MUM
post May 9 2022, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ May 9 2022, 12:30 PM)
Hello all Boglehead sifu here notworthy.gif

What are the effective method to prepare for next economic crisis/stock market crash? Asking for more general in a very long term, anything possible to happen will happen, consider it already happened many time in history.

-considering events like 1997 or 2008 crisis, global index drawdown could be >50% and take years to recover. Holding a fully diversified equity portfolio might hardly avoid that.
-deliberate allocation to gold, US treasury or other kind of asset particularly useful for crashes
-always have some dry powder ready
-"I can smell it before stock market crashes!"
*
While waiting for value added responses, I google
"how to set up an investment portfolio in anticipation of market crashes"
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+set+...le-gws-wiz-serp

Planning for crash like1929 - bogleheads.org - forum
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&...Zw3Riqje1Fc3B0I


Hoshiyuu
post May 10 2022, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ May 9 2022, 12:30 PM)
Hello all Boglehead sifu here notworthy.gif

What are the effective method to prepare for next economic crisis/stock market crash? Asking for more general in a very long term, anything possible to happen will happen, consider it already happened many time in history.

-considering events like 1997 or 2008 crisis, global index drawdown could be >50% and take years to recover. Holding a fully diversified equity portfolio might hardly avoid that.
-deliberate allocation to gold, US treasury or other kind of asset particularly useful for crashes
-always have some dry powder ready
-"I can smell it before stock market crashes!"
*
Standard Bogleheads answers are having a healthy asset allocation in Bonds/MMF/Inflation hedges that can either (1) rebalance into cheap stocks or (2) keep you liquid for prolonged market downturns so you aren't pressured into selling stocks at their worst prices. Keep in mind, if the market does go through a 80%+ downturn, chances of a person keeping their job isn't high either. However, if you already have emergency funds and safe allocations in your portfolio to help you weather the storm, a big ugly event like that might also counter-intuitively reduce your cost of living through deflation, impacting your savings/emergency fund a lot less than you'd think.

The best case scenario? You don't read financial news, you keep your job, you don't check your balance and just sit through the bad years oblivious and come out far richer.

JL Collins has a good write up regarding "The Big Ugly Event" that is a good read if you are interested.

As for "timing" the crash and holding dry powder for it.... well, that's far from what a Bogleheads could do. Again, no one can truly predict the market, the market could rally by 50% the day you liquidated everything to cut loss. I am sure those who lost money "cutting loss" during the covid dip is still feeling the sting.

QUOTE(Warren Buffett)
There is a difference between treasury bills and commercial papers. The former is cash, whereas the latter is not.


This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: May 10 2022, 01:56 PM
AthrunIJ
post May 10 2022, 07:25 AM

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Keep calm and keep on DCA.

Now to slowly save up fund for the next buy. 🤤

Discount everywhere yet no fund currently...
Cubalagi
post May 10 2022, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ May 9 2022, 12:30 PM)
Hello all Boglehead sifu here notworthy.gif

What are the effective method to prepare for next economic crisis/stock market crash? Asking for more general in a very long term, anything possible to happen will happen, consider it already happened many time in history.

-considering events like 1997 or 2008 crisis, global index drawdown could be >50% and take years to recover. Holding a fully diversified equity portfolio might hardly avoid that.
-deliberate allocation to gold, US treasury or other kind of asset particularly useful for crashes
-always have some dry powder ready
-"I can smell it before stock market crashes!"
*
Depends on what you are prepping for:

Financial crisis: USD, Treasuries

Stagflation: Gold, Commodities

Recession/Deflation : USD, Treasuries

It's not enough to be have a fully diversified equities portfolio to protect vs a massive drawdown, you need diversification across asset classes.

I'm not a Boglehead n I actively manage my portfolio allocation across these asset classes.


melondance
post May 11 2022, 09:06 PM

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Saw this post in Reddit today... https://endlessmetrics.substack.com/p/when-...snt-work-an?s=r


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post May 11 2022, 09:11 PM

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Hmm wondering.

MMF is like a stock where you can buy and trade right. Is there an ETF of MMF?
As in the low risk and low return to park money?
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post May 11 2022, 11:01 PM

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yup https://www.investopedia.com/articles/etfs-...16-shv-near.asp
AthrunIJ
post May 11 2022, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ May 11 2022, 11:01 PM)
Interesting.

Wondering if it has an Irish counterpart. Time to look further 👀
Cubalagi
post May 12 2022, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ May 11 2022, 11:05 PM)
Interesting.

Wondering if it has an Irish counterpart. Time to look further 👀
*
The witholding tax on dividends for US ETF is a problem. It applies to even bond and money market ETFs.

Personally I use Singapore government bond ETF (abfsg) as an alternative to US Treasuries. There are also Money Market ETFs in SGX and HK.

AthrunIJ
post May 12 2022, 08:04 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ May 12 2022, 07:59 AM)
The witholding tax on dividends for US ETF is a problem. It applies to even bond and money market ETFs.

Personally I use Singapore government bond ETF (abfsg) as an alternative to US Treasuries. There are also Money Market ETFs in SGX and HK.
*
Also interesting. Will look into it.

Thanks!!
Cubalagi
post May 12 2022, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ May 12 2022, 08:04 AM)
Also interesting. Will look into it.

Thanks!!
*
You can also look at UUP ETF as another alternative for USD exposure.

This is not a Money Market ETF, but rather a Futures Contracts based ETF. So it has no distribution. Fees are on a high side, but it performance is good.

P/S I will be a bit cautious to start piling into USD now, considering it's at such high levels.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: May 12 2022, 08:22 AM
Medufsaid
post May 12 2022, 08:23 AM

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oooh UUP is familiar. KDI uses it (may be outdated as it seems like they change ETF more often than SA)

user posted image
AthrunIJ
post May 12 2022, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ May 12 2022, 08:21 AM)
You can also look at UUP ETF as another alternative for USD exposure.

This is not a Money Market ETF, but rather a Futures Contracts based ETF. So it has no distribution. Fees are on a high side, but it performance is good.

P/S I will be a bit cautious to start piling into USD now, considering it's at such high levels.
*
Yeah, for now. I have USD based ETF and SGD reits.

I need to read up more on the future contracts. Seems like risky investment? Based on my limited understanding haha.

Thanks for the info. Time to put some moolah in MMF other than MYR😆
Cubalagi
post May 12 2022, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ May 12 2022, 08:56 AM)

I need to read up more on the future contracts. Seems like risky investment? Based on my limited understanding haha.

*
Futures contract can be a bit risky if u DIY them yourself.

For ETF, it's the ETF manager doing it. The more risky ones are those leveraged 2x or 3x ones. If it's unleveraged, then should be fine. But fees are usually higher than simple physical ETFs.

Hoshiyuu
post May 12 2022, 12:40 PM

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Sweet unholy god what is all this perverted talk in a Bogleheads thread?
Cubalagi
post May 12 2022, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 12 2022, 12:40 PM)
Sweet unholy god what is all this perverted talk in a Bogleheads thread?
*
Sorry for the heresy talk. 😆

Please continue DCA VWRA discussion ..

Hoshiyuu
post May 12 2022, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ May 12 2022, 12:46 PM)
Sorry for the heresy talk. 😆

Please continue DCA VWRA discussion ..
*
Hahaha, time has changed a lot since I've asked for your advice regarding Bursa listed ETF and China ETF back in Feb 2021, I am an honest-to-god non sector picking total market investor now tongue.gif
AthrunIJ
post May 12 2022, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 12 2022, 12:40 PM)
Sweet unholy god what is all this perverted talk in a Bogleheads thread?
*
😆
Worry not still within boglehead topic of looking for MMF 😆
Hoshiyuu
post May 12 2022, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ May 12 2022, 12:49 PM)
😆
Worry not still within boglehead topic of looking for MMF 😆
*
Hahaha, mostly joking for some laughs, we haven't turned into a crypto thread yet and that alone is good enough.

Even on the Bogleheads subreddit, plenty of folks are a far cry from the traditional VT and chill during the massive bullmarket too biggrin.gif
Cubalagi
post May 12 2022, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 12 2022, 12:49 PM)
Hahaha, time has changed a lot since I've asked for your advice regarding Bursa listed ETF and China ETF back in Feb 2021, I am an honest-to-god non sector picking total market investor now  tongue.gif
*
Good to know u have embraced ETFs! The total market thing is a respectable approach. Historically, pretty hard to beat.

If u r 100% equities, you have to learn to live with the volatility tho.

I'm still using both single stocks n ETFs (and some unit trust), jump around between asset classes, sectors etc..very UnBoglehead.

Current allocation* is:
35% Treasuries
20% Currencies
10% Gold
35% Equities

* Approximate



AthrunIJ
post May 13 2022, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ May 12 2022, 05:29 PM)
Good to know u have embraced ETFs!  The total market thing is a respectable approach. Historically, pretty hard to beat.

If u r 100% equities, you have to learn to live with the volatility tho.

I'm still using both single stocks n ETFs (and some unit trust), jump around between asset classes, sectors etc..very UnBoglehead.

Current allocation* is:
35% Treasuries
20% Currencies
10% Gold
35% Equities

* Approximate
*
I too can considered as unboglehead haha

100% equities now and with REIT and bank sectors.

Planned to add some to MMF soon.
thkent91
post May 13 2022, 02:00 PM

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Count me in.

I'm also onboard ETF via Rakuten Trade.

Started Investing in Bursa since 2012, although return has been nice, I am beginning to lose hope in Malaysia Economy

Loading the few ETF into my portfolio slowly:
1. ICLN Nasdaq
2. LIT Nasdaq
3. HYDR Nasdaq
4. TAN Nasdaq
5. 2809.HK

I'm going heavy on alternative energy, because the price of energy will not drop so soon. Everybody needs energy. Oil and Gas difficult to get funding from financial institution leads to higher price of production
AthrunIJ
post May 13 2022, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(thkent91 @ May 13 2022, 02:00 PM)
Count me in.

I'm also onboard ETF via Rakuten Trade.

Started Investing in Bursa since 2012, although return has been nice, I am beginning to lose hope in Malaysia Economy

Loading the few ETF into my portfolio slowly:
1. ICLN Nasdaq
2. LIT Nasdaq
3. HYDR Nasdaq
4. TAN Nasdaq
5. 2809.HK

I'm going heavy on alternative energy, because the price of energy will not drop so soon. Everybody needs energy. Oil and Gas difficult to get funding from financial institution leads to higher price of production
*
Welcome and all Ze best in our investment journey

🤤
[Ancient]-XinG-
post May 13 2022, 02:48 PM

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I will slowly load up.

Every 10 share of VWRA, every 2 share of BRK B
AthrunIJ
post May 13 2022, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ May 13 2022, 02:48 PM)
I will slowly load up.

Every 10 share of VWRA, every 2 share of BRK B
*
Wow, nice.

I can only load up 5 VWRA at current pricing.
Davidtcf
post May 13 2022, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ May 13 2022, 02:48 PM)
I will slowly load up.

Every 10 share of VWRA, every 2 share of BRK B
*
BRK.B wanted to buy these before.
Then I see Warren Buffet’s age.. I think twice.

Waiting new leadership takes over first, and proven stability before I’d invest in it.
[Ancient]-XinG-
post May 13 2022, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ May 13 2022, 05:08 PM)
BRK.B wanted to buy these before.
Then I see Warren Buffet’s age.. I think twice.

Waiting new leadership takes over first, and proven stability before I’d invest in it.
*
Proper passover ad

Moreover the holding wont change much as they already anchored long
SUSTOS
post May 13 2022, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ May 13 2022, 05:42 PM)
Proper passover ad

Moreover the holding wont change much as they already anchored long
*
You should beware of Abel. The market finds him "too shy". He won't talk too much to the media. We don't know his investment style either.

Another issue is possible breakup of the various businesses under BRK once Buffett is not around if hedge/activist funds come in to "unlock value".

This post has been edited by TOS: May 13 2022, 07:32 PM
Cubalagi
post May 14 2022, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(thkent91 @ May 13 2022, 02:00 PM)
Count me in.

I'm also onboard ETF via Rakuten Trade.

Started Investing in Bursa since 2012, although return has been nice, I am beginning to lose hope in Malaysia Economy

Loading the few ETF into my portfolio slowly:
1. ICLN Nasdaq
2. LIT Nasdaq
3. HYDR Nasdaq
4. TAN Nasdaq
5. 2809.HK

I'm going heavy on alternative energy, because the price of energy will not drop so soon. Everybody needs energy. Oil and Gas difficult to get funding from financial institution leads to higher price of production
*
If this is all your portfolio, then you are too concentrated.

Hoshiyuu
post May 14 2022, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(thkent91 @ May 13 2022, 02:00 PM)
Count me in.

I'm also onboard ETF via Rakuten Trade.

Started Investing in Bursa since 2012, although return has been nice, I am beginning to lose hope in Malaysia Economy

Loading the few ETF into my portfolio slowly:
1. ICLN Nasdaq
2. LIT Nasdaq
3. HYDR Nasdaq
4. TAN Nasdaq
5. 2809.HK

I'm going heavy on alternative energy, because the price of energy will not drop so soon. Everybody needs energy. Oil and Gas difficult to get funding from financial institution leads to higher price of production
*
Putting aside that this portfolio doesn't follow the Bogleheads philosophy at all, this is pure sector tilting on top of bad overlapping causing bad overweighting on certain underlying stocks. While the investor's intention is clear, you may want to reconsider your portfolio...
[Ancient]-XinG-
post May 15 2022, 07:44 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ May 13 2022, 05:52 PM)
You should beware of Abel. The market finds him "too shy". He won't talk too much to the media. We don't know his investment style either.

Another issue is possible breakup of the various businesses under BRK once Buffett is not around if hedge/activist funds come in to "unlock value".
*
Expect shake up during tansition period but wont be bad
thkent91
post May 17 2022, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ May 14 2022, 03:39 PM)
If this is all your portfolio, then you are too concentrated.
*
QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 14 2022, 09:42 PM)
Putting aside that this portfolio doesn't follow the Bogleheads philosophy at all, this is pure sector tilting on top of bad overlapping causing bad overweighting on certain underlying stocks. While the investor's intention is clear, you may want to reconsider your portfolio...
*
Noted with thanks.

Will add slowly other sector like tech, materials and healthcare too in future once US side is stabilized.

The reason why I begin with alternative energy industry is because Bursa doesn't have these sector.
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 1 2022, 10:10 AM

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Hello all,
I'm happy we have a Boglehead chapter Malaysian chapter! I was feel lost and isolated in a sea of stock pickers and crypto fans lol. I literally read every post and learned so much, especially about bond allocation which I'm very confused with. You guys are awesome and I'm glad there are people in Malaysia who believe in the investing style I do.

I'm a late starter, unfortunately.

I wish wish wish I knew about the Boglehead investing philosophy in my 20s, but now I'm 45 and slowly realigning my portfolio to this allocation:

70% equitties - VTI, VXUS, VOO --> But will just put in VT from now on for simplicity's sakes. In the future will transition to Irish domiciled ETFs. probably next year.
10% REITS & some local blue chip stocks - SUNREIT, AXREIT, Maybank
20% Fixed income - mostly money market and FD. I have some in ABFMY1 ETF also

I have ways to go to adjust my portfolio. In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.

Instead, I'm hyper accelerating my investments, just pouring most of it into VT, which I buy using Rakuten Trade cos it's only RM8 per trade. I'm ALSO slowly move my investments out of SA into VT (at a loss, ouch).

Yes, about my US ETFs. I totally understand about the witholding tax issues, but after watching a video by Zeit where he compared buying US ETF vs Irish domiciled ones, I think my portfolio too kecik to worry about that now, and I don't think I can afford the big bullets of investing in LSE for now. I'm also working up the courage to open an IBKR account --> I just don't feel secure using an online broker not approved by SEC yet.

I got a question for all of you - are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.


CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM

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Hello all,
I'm happy we have a Boglehead chapter Malaysian chapter! I was feeingl lost and isolated in a sea of stock pickers and crypto fans lol. I literally read every post and learned so much, especially about bond allocation which I'm very confused with. You guys are awesome and I'm glad there are people in Malaysia who believe in the investing style I do.

I'm a late starter, unfortunately.

I wish wish wish I knew about the Boglehead investing philosophy in my 20s, but now I'm 45 and slowly realigning my portfolio to this allocation:

70% equitties - VTI, VXUS, VOO --> But will just put in VT from now on for simplicity's sakes. In the future will transition to Irish domiciled ETFs. probably next year.
10% REITS & some local blue chip stocks - SUNREIT, AXREIT, Maybank
20% Fixed income - mostly money market and FD. I have some in ABFMY1 ETF also

I have ways to go to adjust my portfolio. In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.

Instead, I'm hyper accelerating my investments, just pouring most of it into VT, which I buy using Rakuten Trade cos it's only RM8 per trade. I'm ALSO slowly move my investments out of SA into VT (at a loss, ouch).

Yes, about my US ETFs. I totally understand about the witholding tax issues, but after watching a video by Zeit where he compared buying US ETF vs Irish domiciled ones, I think my portfolio too kecik to worry about that now, and I don't think I can afford the big bullets of investing in LSE for now. I'm also working up the courage to open an IBKR account --> I just don't feel secure using an online broker not approved by SEC yet.

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.


CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 1 2022, 10:15 AM

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Am so sorry for the double post. Can't seem to delete it? bangwall.gif
MUM
post Jun 1 2022, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
...........

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
*
Many had mentioned,... They are already biased n heavy in asset allocation to malaysia sector through their epf n property.... Thus whatever spare investable cash they have, they will try not put in malaysia equities. Btw, I think 10-15 yrs ago malaysia small caps investment did enriched many too... Then since the last few years,... Downhill liao.
How many % of your net worth (includes fd, saviingss, Investment, properties, epf, etc) are already in malaysia?

This post has been edited by MUM: Jun 1 2022, 10:52 AM
Ramjade
post Jun 1 2022, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
Hello all,
I'm happy we have a Boglehead chapter Malaysian chapter! I was feeingl lost and isolated in a sea of stock pickers and crypto fans lol. I literally read every post and learned so much, especially about bond allocation which I'm very confused with. You guys are awesome and I'm glad there are people in Malaysia who believe in the investing style I do.

I'm a late starter, unfortunately.

I wish wish wish I knew about the Boglehead investing philosophy in my 20s, but now I'm 45 and slowly realigning my portfolio to this allocation:

70% equitties - VTI, VXUS, VOO --> But will just put in VT from now on for simplicity's sakes. In the future will transition to Irish domiciled ETFs. probably next year.
10% REITS & some local blue chip stocks - SUNREIT, AXREIT, Maybank
20% Fixed income - mostly money market and FD. I have some in ABFMY1 ETF also

I have ways to go to adjust my portfolio. In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.

Instead, I'm hyper accelerating my investments, just pouring most of it into VT, which I buy using Rakuten Trade cos it's only RM8 per trade. I'm ALSO slowly move my investments out of SA into VT (at a loss, ouch).

Yes, about my US ETFs. I totally understand about the witholding tax issues, but after watching a video by Zeit where he compared buying US ETF vs Irish domiciled ones, I think my portfolio too kecik to worry about that now, and I don't think I can afford the big bullets of investing in LSE for now. I'm also working up the courage to open an IBKR account --> I just don't feel secure using an online broker not approved by SEC yet.

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
*
No harm or shame in investing overseas. You are doing what you think it's best for your money.

I am 100% in the the US.

Why?
1. You can't find higher quality companies than those in the US. Yes some countries have high quality companies too but not as many.
2. Never bet against the US economy.
3. US companies are generally quite diversified. So you don't need to diversify further.
RayleighH
post Jun 1 2022, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
Hello all,
I'm happy we have a Boglehead chapter Malaysian chapter! I was feeingl lost and isolated in a sea of stock pickers and crypto fans lol. I literally read every post and learned so much, especially about bond allocation which I'm very confused with. You guys are awesome and I'm glad there are people in Malaysia who believe in the investing style I do.

I'm a late starter, unfortunately.

I wish wish wish I knew about the Boglehead investing philosophy in my 20s, but now I'm 45 and slowly realigning my portfolio to this allocation:

70% equitties - VTI, VXUS, VOO --> But will just put in VT from now on for simplicity's sakes. In the future will transition to Irish domiciled ETFs. probably next year.
10% REITS & some local blue chip stocks - SUNREIT, AXREIT, Maybank
20% Fixed income - mostly money market and FD. I have some in ABFMY1 ETF also

I have ways to go to adjust my portfolio. In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.

Instead, I'm hyper accelerating my investments, just pouring most of it into VT, which I buy using Rakuten Trade cos it's only RM8 per trade. I'm ALSO slowly move my investments out of SA into VT (at a loss, ouch).

Yes, about my US ETFs. I totally understand about the witholding tax issues, but after watching a video by Zeit where he compared buying US ETF vs Irish domiciled ones, I think my portfolio too kecik to worry about that now, and I don't think I can afford the big bullets of investing in LSE for now. I'm also working up the courage to open an IBKR account --> I just don't feel secure using an online broker not approved by SEC yet.

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
*
For me I am treating my EPF funds as the Bond portion. Therefore, my focus at the moment is 100% USA ETF. However, compared to my EPF account, this allocation is still peanuts so I'm trying to raise my allocation in USA ETF to be a substantial percentage compared to my EPF. After that only will I think of how to balance the allocation of future funds.
Cubalagi
post Jun 1 2022, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
*
I have Malaysian single stock names as part of my equities portion. I limit it to not more than 30% of my portfolio, at max. Currently at about 15% as I'm defensive as a whole (not just Malaysia).

P/S Not a true Bogglehead.

Hoshiyuu
post Jun 1 2022, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
Hello all,
I'm happy we have a Boglehead chapter Malaysian chapter! I was feeingl lost and isolated in a sea of stock pickers and crypto fans lol. I literally read every post and learned so much, especially about bond allocation which I'm very confused with. You guys are awesome and I'm glad there are people in Malaysia who believe in the investing style I do.

I'm a late starter, unfortunately.

I wish wish wish I knew about the Boglehead investing philosophy in my 20s, but now I'm 45 and slowly realigning my portfolio to this allocation:

70% equitties - VTI, VXUS, VOO --> But will just put in VT from now on for simplicity's sakes. In the future will transition to Irish domiciled ETFs. probably next year.
10% REITS & some local blue chip stocks - SUNREIT, AXREIT, Maybank
20% Fixed income - mostly money market and FD. I have some in ABFMY1 ETF also

I have ways to go to adjust my portfolio. In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.

Instead, I'm hyper accelerating my investments, just pouring most of it into VT, which I buy using Rakuten Trade cos it's only RM8 per trade. I'm ALSO slowly move my investments out of SA into VT (at a loss, ouch).

Yes, about my US ETFs. I totally understand about the witholding tax issues, but after watching a video by Zeit where he compared buying US ETF vs Irish domiciled ones, I think my portfolio too kecik to worry about that now, and I don't think I can afford the big bullets of investing in LSE for now. I'm also working up the courage to open an IBKR account --> I just don't feel secure using an online broker not approved by SEC yet.

I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
*
Well, I'm investing in total market by market weight, so my Malaysian stocks allocation is done via VWRA and my portfolio consist of 0.2% of it, and I refuse to have a cent more than needed in Malaysian stocks.

Over the past two years I've been cutting out random investment that I've picked up in my misguided days or when I lacked access to a good broker, instead of just letting them rot there and pay pointless fees. But I can perfectly understand the sentiment of "just let it sit, it's not a loss until I realized it" though. That can be a purely personal choice and you shouldn't worry too much about it.

As for IBKR... well, let's just say I trust in IBKR and all its auditing firms far and beyond I trust SC.
Medufsaid
post Jun 1 2022, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
In my 30s I bought the smooth talk of a Public Mutual unit trust salesman and just let her pick whatever stock. As a result I'm now overweighted in Malaysian equities sad.gif. But it's way too scary to sell now cos that unit trust is down soooo much. So I'm not going to touch it.
*
sigh probably off-topic but here goes.

actually, since you've money in the Public Mutual eco-system (and already paid the hefty 3.5% entrance fee per ringgit), it has more options than a robo like say StashAway. you can easily switch to a US unit trust without needing to convert your RM into USD, since you are just buying UT units denominated in RM. during my time, the fee to switch is RM25 regardless of transaction amount

there are also Far East or even ASEAN based UT. no need to worry of reconverting from USD to HKD/SGD etc... all denominated in RM

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 1 2022, 07:59 PM
AthrunIJ
post Jun 1 2022, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Jun 1 2022, 07:23 PM)
Well, I'm investing in total market by market weight, so my Malaysian stocks allocation is done via VWRA and my portfolio consist of 0.2% of it, and I refuse to have a cent more than needed in Malaysian stocks.

Over the past two years I've been cutting out random investment that I've picked up in my misguided days or when I lacked access to a good broker, instead of just letting them rot there and pay pointless fees. But I can perfectly understand the sentiment of "just let it sit, it's not a loss until I realized it" though. That can be a purely personal choice and you shouldn't worry too much about it.

As for IBKR... well, let's just say I trust in IBKR and all its auditing firms far and beyond I trust SC.
*
Same as me. Haha

Once go through the hassle of registering for wise and IBKR then everything is a breeze. Open and transfer during salary day, buy stocks and close app. Rinse and repeat until well old age I guess if I am lucky to survive till then.

For now aiming to live comfortably. 🤤👀

Now just waiting for my other Malaysia stock reach ex date then sell and add on more VWRA and so e other blue chips to supplement USA ETF .

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Jun 1 2022, 09:25 PM
encikbuta
post Jun 2 2022, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 1 2022, 10:12 AM)
I got a question for all of you - in your equities portion of your portfolio, are you all 100% foreign equities (US & world), or do you have a mix of M'sian and foreign equities in your portfolio? If I have a choice I want to keep my Malaysian equities to just 10% of my portfolio cos I have no confidence with the Malaysian economy.
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Our portfolio is quite similar. So with investment portfolio, I'm (targeting) 70% VT, 10% Principal Greater China, 10% Manulife REIT & 10% United ASEAN Discovery. So whatever M'sian equities in my investment portfolio is in the United ASEAN Discovery, which last I checked is 35% of the fund. So my M'sian equities is only about 3.5% of my overall portfolio, very little. There are some % of M'sian equities in VT and Manulife REIT but i believe it's quite insignificant. P/S: This does not account my retirement portfolio (EPF & PRS), those are obviously super heavy in M'sian equities but we don't really have control over.

Our background stories are also quite similar, for 10 years since i started working at 24 yrs old, I over-invested in Malaysia coz my Public Mutual agent just kept 'recommending' me to pump into different Malaysian Focused funds (with 5% fees!). At one point, I was like 80% in M'sian equities sad.gif It was only after 2 - 3 years ago when i got into personal finance that I realised my mistake and re did my entire portfolio. glad we snapped out of it smile.gif
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post Jun 2 2022, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 2 2022, 10:58 AM)
Our portfolio is quite similar. So with investment portfolio, I'm (targeting) 70% VT, 10% Principal Greater China, 10% Manulife REIT & 10% United ASEAN Discovery. So whatever M'sian equities in my investment portfolio is in the United ASEAN Discovery, which last I checked is 35% of the fund. So my M'sian equities is only about 3.5% of my overall portfolio, very little. There are some % of M'sian equities in VT and Manulife REIT but i believe it's quite insignificant. P/S: This does not account my retirement portfolio (EPF & PRS), those are obviously super heavy in M'sian equities but we don't really have control over.

Our background stories are also quite similar, for 10 years since i started working at 24 yrs old, I over-invested in Malaysia coz my Public Mutual agent just kept 'recommending' me to pump into different Malaysian Focused funds (with 5% fees!). At one point, I was like 80% in M'sian equities sad.gif It was only after 2 - 3 years ago when i got into personal finance that I realised my mistake and re did my entire portfolio. glad we snapped out of it smile.gif
*
Thanks bro for the sharing.
can advise what is your investment timeframe for the above portfolio? laugh.gif
encikbuta
post Jun 2 2022, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(Jitty @ Jun 2 2022, 11:10 AM)
Thanks bro for the sharing.
can advise what is your investment timeframe for the above portfolio?  laugh.gif
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So we're talking about my "70% VT, 10% Principal Greater China, 10% Manulife REIT & 10% United ASEAN Discovery" portfolio, yea? I'm 36 yrs old so I'm targeting until all the way to my retirement!

But it's not set in stone la. Just 2 months ago, I was also invested in United Global Quality, StashAway and TA Global Tech. Then I made a snap decision to just consolidate all these 3x funds into one VT ETF smile.gif

Anything could happen until retirement but my core philosophy would remain, just stay globally diversified - away from Malaysia!
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post Jun 2 2022, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 2 2022, 11:18 AM)
So we're talking about my "70% VT, 10% Principal Greater China, 10% Manulife REIT & 10% United ASEAN Discovery" portfolio, yea? I'm 36 yrs old so I'm targeting until all the way to my retirement!

But it's not set in stone la. Just 2 months ago, I was also invested in United Global Quality, StashAway and TA Global Tech. Then I made a snap decision to just consolidate all these 3x funds into one VT ETF smile.gif

Anything could happen until retirement but my core philosophy would remain, just stay globally diversified - away from Malaysia!
*
Just notice your own personal finance blog. I am curious those listed are all your investment instruments? You have zero dollars in say bank FD, govt bonds, endowment insurance etc? Those are considered safe and capital guaranteed investment.
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post Jun 2 2022, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 2 2022, 12:43 PM)
Just notice your own personal finance blog. I am curious those listed are all your investment instruments? You have zero dollars in say bank FD, govt bonds, endowment insurance etc? Those are considered safe and capital guaranteed investment.
*
I have zero dollars in FD.
encikbuta
post Jun 2 2022, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 2 2022, 12:43 PM)
Just notice your own personal finance blog. I am curious those listed are all your investment instruments? You have zero dollars in say bank FD, govt bonds, endowment insurance etc? Those are considered safe and capital guaranteed investment.
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Yep that's all my investments. My emergency fund (RM43k) is in RHB Cash Management Fund if that's what you're asking? It can be withdrawn pretty quickly. And that RM7k cash in my bank account helps too.

Or if you're asking where is my 'fixed income' portion of my investment, I don't have any, lol! I decided to just go 100% equity.
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post Jun 2 2022, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 2 2022, 01:18 PM)
Yep that's all my investments. My emergency fund (RM43k) is in RHB Cash Management Fund if that's what you're asking? It can be withdrawn pretty quickly. And that RM7k cash in my bank account helps too.

Or if you're asking where is my 'fixed income' portion of my investment, I don't have any, lol! I decided to just go 100% equity.
*
KDI save give better returns than RHB.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jun 2 2022, 01:30 PM
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post Jun 2 2022, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jun 2 2022, 01:03 PM)
I have zero dollars in FD.
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Thanks for sharing so your investment instruments have nothing that is capital guaranteed correct? What about Msia EPF? That is also a form of "investment" by the govt on behalf of citizen just like Spore govt. Govt worry citizen dunno how to invest go and lose monies then old already no work stomach hungry ask govt feed them. But your govt quite lenient at age 50,55 can take all out unlike mine which come out with some Minimum Sum concept to buy annuity plan so every month got allowance from that in your retirement years and that is mandatory btw.
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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 2 2022, 02:55 PM)
Thanks for sharing so your investment instruments have nothing that is capital guaranteed correct? What about Msia EPF? That is also a form of "investment" by the govt on behalf of citizen just like Spore govt. Govt worry citizen dunno how to invest go and lose monies then old already no work stomach hungry ask govt feed them. But your govt quite lenient at age 50,55 can take all out unlike mine which come out with some Minimum Sum concept to buy annuity plan so every month got allowance from that in your retirement years and that is mandatory btw.
*
I don't waste time with FDs nowadays.

Yes got epf. I withdraw out the max.during last8 covid crash and invest in my own. Even the minimum amount allow to be use for investment via unit trust also I max it out. Already besting EPF returns.
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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 2 2022, 01:18 PM)
Yep that's all my investments. My emergency fund (RM43k) is in RHB Cash Management Fund if that's what you're asking? It can be withdrawn pretty quickly. And that RM7k cash in my bank account helps too.

Or if you're asking where is my 'fixed income' portion of my investment, I don't have any, lol! I decided to just go 100% equity.
*
I am actually asking for your overall investment portfolio but seem you have it covered with emergency and cash in bank balance. This is I think the fixed income portion. Now I understand your blog those are the 100% equities portion. Thanks for sharing.
encikbuta
post Jun 2 2022, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 2 2022, 05:38 PM)
I am actually asking for your overall investment portfolio but seem you have it covered with emergency and cash in bank balance. This is I think the fixed income portion. Now I understand your blog those are the 100% equities portion. Thanks for sharing.
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Oh lol. Those posts I update monthly are for my investment portfolio only (cash I can control).

I have another page under "Net Worth" which shows my everything - fixed equity (home and car), current equity (investment portfolio) and retirement asset (EPF, PRS & insurance).
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post Jun 3 2022, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Jun 1 2022, 07:51 PM)
sigh probably off-topic but here goes.

actually, since you've money in the Public Mutual eco-system (and already paid the hefty 3.5% entrance fee per ringgit), it has more options than a robo like say StashAway. you can easily switch to a US unit trust without needing to convert your RM into USD, since you are just buying UT units denominated in RM. during my time, the fee to switch is RM25 regardless of transaction amount

there are also Far East or even ASEAN based UT. no need to worry of reconverting from USD to HKD/SGD etc... all denominated in RM
*
I could, but I'm literally down 10k so takut lol. I'd much rather move it out of the ecosystem to be honest. Don't like being charged up to 1.5% annual fees. A friend of mine told me to look at their top 10 holdings. If they got potential stay, If they don't, just cut losses. OUCH. It's a small caps fund.

Encikbuta - Nice to find a personal finance blog! I love reading them. I have one too where I document my journey but not in such detail as you. I'm terrible at math lol: Lowyat won't let me include the link cos still probation so later I share. Also glad to meet another one investing in VT. 100% equities is so brave!

I am planning of just simplifying into that from VTI + VXUS cos I really tired of paying MIDF's super high trading fees. Just buying via Rakuten Trade now. When I realise all I have to do to invest every month is just funnel fix amount every month there, I'm like, eh, so easy ah? Lol. Before, I had to funnel to so many different places, roboadvisors lah, UT lah, brokers lah ... glad to know all I have to do is just that for now.

My funds are quite songsang right now. My equity part of my portfolio (Excluding EPF) is 55%. Fixed income is 45% - a mix of FDs, bonds and MM. I'm hoping to bring the equity up to 70%. My Malaysian equities almost half of my equity portfolio rclxub.gif but I'm quickly catching up with my foreign investments, so soon it'll be at least 30% of the portfolio. It'll take me some time to gather the bullets. I suppose as I'm 45 already, It's reasonable to have about 30% or more in Fixed Income.

IBKR - still conflicted about that. My question is, if anything happens to the company, how do we get the money back? No one can answer that for now so I still takut.

Glad to learn from everyone!
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post Jun 3 2022, 09:51 AM

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35 aged semi-booglehead here. Surprised to find MY version.

Most of my investments is in ASNB (non-bumi fund) and local stocks, but past 4 years I have been pumping more money into IBKR account to hold VOO. The reason I use VOO despite its tax disadvanages is that the differences are minimal.

Also, recently I have been dabbling with individual stock picks (US and HK) and crypto. As it has been too tempting to stay out. But I try to keep it within 5% max for these risky securities.

I'd kill for a low-cost KLSE index fund ETF. And maybe other ASEAN market stock indexes too. So tired of looking at local markets, news, valuations. When US market seems bleak or the exchange rate is unfavourable like now, there's no choice but to put funds into local markets.
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post Jun 3 2022, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 3 2022, 09:21 AM)
I am planning of just simplifying into that from VTI + VXUS cos I really tired of paying MIDF's super high trading fees. Just buying via Rakuten Trade now. When I realise all I have to do to invest every month is just funnel fix amount every month there, I'm like, eh, so easy ah? Lol. Before, I had to funnel to so many different places, roboadvisors lah, UT lah, brokers lah ... glad to know all I have to do is just that for now.
*
Yea, this is exactly what I did! damn tired distributing my savings into so many investment vehicles so I just reducing them to mostly VT helped with my sanity.

QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 3 2022, 09:21 AM)
I suppose as I'm 45 already, It's reasonable to have about 30% or more in Fixed Income.
*
Yea agreed. Risk appetite is relative to age. I go 100% equity coz I believe I'm still young (at heart, lol). I might change my tune once I hit the 40!

QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 3 2022, 09:21 AM)
IBKR - still conflicted about that. My question is, if anything happens to the company, how do we get the money back? No one can answer that for now so I still takut.
*
same here. aside from fees, legacy planning plays a big role in my consideration of overseas broker selection. the amount i have invested in VT is quite huge (to me) and on top of that, i have a few dependents. so the thought of having my funds 'stuck' overseas upon my sudden demise is worse than the death itself! it has to be an SC-approved broker and for now, it looks like a toss up between Rakuten Trade or FSMOne's ETF RSP plan.
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post Jun 3 2022, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(toiletwater @ Jun 3 2022, 09:51 AM)
35 aged semi-booglehead here. Surprised to find MY version.

Most of my investments is in ASNB (non-bumi fund) and local stocks, but past 4 years I have been pumping more money into IBKR account to hold VOO. The reason I use VOO despite its tax disadvanages is that the differences are minimal.

Also, recently I have been dabbling with individual stock picks (US and HK) and crypto. As it has been too tempting to stay out. But I try to keep it within 5% max for these risky securities.

I'd kill for a low-cost KLSE index fund ETF. And maybe other ASEAN market stock indexes too. So tired of looking at local markets, news, valuations. When US market seems bleak or the exchange rate is unfavourable like now, there's no choice but to put funds into local markets.
*
Me too man. I explored the Malaysian ETFs, we do have a KLSE-type index fund ETF - FTSE Bursa Malaysia KLCI ETF but apparently it doesn't track the entire index but just certain companies (30 biggest listed companies), so it's not as diversified as we'd like. Performance some more not so great.

Speaking of Malaysian ETFs wonder why not many people exploring them? I bought two funds mainly:
- ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund (0800EA)
- TradePlus MSCI Asia Ex Japan Reits Tracker

Glad to know you're into VOO. Irish domiciled funds have higher expense ratio than US Vanguard funds and also the brokerage fee is higher apparently, so I think it more or less evens out in the end. Well, until you amass too much and then you start feeling the WHT pinch and get worried about estate tax.

QUOTE
same here. aside from fees, legacy planning plays a big role in my consideration of overseas broker selection. the amount i have invested in VT is quite huge (to me) and on top of that, i have a few dependents. so the thought of having my funds 'stuck' overseas upon my sudden demise is worse than the death itself! it has to be an SC-approved broker and for now, it looks like a toss up between Rakuten Trade or FSMOne's ETF RSP plan.


encikbuta I remember reading up about people trying to get back money from an investment bank that kantoi, it wasn't easy. somemore it resides overseas. I don't know lah, I don't have that risk apetite - totally understand since you got dependents. Thanks for telling me about the FSMOne ETF plan. Will check it out.
Medufsaid
post Jun 3 2022, 10:19 AM

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user posted image

since 2009, the KLCI index has been revamped to only have 30 companies. the only official successor to the original index (maybe want to follow dow jones). this new index is the one that Edge and thestar refers to.

There's a top 100 (a combination of FBMKLCI and Mid 70) but hardly anyone knows it exists

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 3 2022, 10:21 AM
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post Jun 3 2022, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 3 2022, 10:12 AM)
Glad to know you're into VOO. Irish domiciled funds have higher expense ratio than US Vanguard funds and also the brokerage fee is higher apparently, so I think it more or less evens out in the end. Well, until you amass too much and then you start feeling the WHT pinch and get worried about estate tax.
encikbuta I remember reading up about people trying to get back money from an investment bank that kantoi, it wasn't easy. somemore it resides overseas. I don't know lah, I don't have that risk apetite - totally understand since you got dependents. Thanks for telling me about the FSMOne ETF plan. Will check it out.
*
not true, your returns from VOO will be lower than that of VUAA/CSPX due to the 30% tax on dividends. For VUAA/CSPX it will be 15% tax on the accumulated dividends which is lower. Short term you do not see much difference in the % gained, but long term wise after many years it will be apparent. For countries with tax treaty with US or US citizens, they will able to claim back part of those dividend tax or offset them.. for us, EU and Singaporeans investors that has no tax treaty with US, it will be an extra 15% loss for us each time when dividends are paid out.

This is even more apparent for ETFs like VOO as they are distributing the dividends. Every time you receive dividends it already has an extra 15% tax charged to it.

Better stick to Irish domiciled types like VUAA/CSPX. Currently no way to buy them via brokers in Malaysia, so have to use brokers like IBKR to do so.
The part we will be charged higher is the transfer fees from Malaysia to US. Even using Wise to IBKR has some fees, but most people prefer transfer from Wise to CIMB SG, then to IBKR pay USD2 per conversion to USD (spot rate). For long term investing then it is worth it.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Jun 3 2022, 10:26 AM
Medufsaid
post Jun 3 2022, 10:32 AM

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sometimes the pro and cons are not so clear cut. for example, yesterday US markets rallied, however if you stuck to only Irish Domiciled etfs, you are unable to topup more units on the spot as LSE had a public holiday. chasing today when Irish Domiciled starts trading later is too late

my stand could change if Irish domiciled can give me 0% tax instead of still a 15% rate

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 3 2022, 10:33 AM
Hoshiyuu
post Jun 3 2022, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Jun 3 2022, 10:32 AM)
sometimes the pro and cons are not so clear cut. for example, yesterday US markets rallied, however if you stuck to only Irish Domiciled etfs, you are unable to topup more units on the spot as LSE had a public holiday. chasing today when Irish Domiciled starts trading later is too late

my stand could change if Irish domiciled can give me 0% tax instead of still a 15% rate
*
Well, part of the Bogleheads modus operandi is to invest at fixed intervals and don't time the market anyway, so it's surprisingly a smaller deal than it is. For broad market index, it's really hard to profit or loss from the movement, no need to worry too much about it.

I wouldn't bother with KLCI Index - Index investing doesn't mean you buy anything that says it's an index or an ETF. You buy VWRA/VT because its a representation of the broad market that it covers the broad market that in general trend up.

KLCI as a whole has been trading sideways or down for the last decade, you couldn't even beat inflation even if there was an index for it.

Keep it simple. Stay with broad market indexes, don't overthink it and end up with diworsification.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Jun 3 2022, 11:21 AM
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 3 2022, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Jun 3 2022, 11:17 AM)
Well, part of the Bogleheads modus operandi is to invest at fixed intervals and don't time the market anyway, so it's surprisingly a smaller deal than it is. For broad market index, it's really hard to profit or loss from the movement, no need to worry too much about it.

I wouldn't bother with KLCI Index - Index investing doesn't mean you buy anything that says it's an index or an ETF. You buy VWRA/VT because its a representation of the broad market that it covers the broad market that in general trend up.

KLCI as a whole has been trading sideways or down for the last decade, you couldn't even beat inflation even if there was an index for it.

Keep it simple. Stay with broad market indexes, don't overthink it and end up with diworsification.
*
Agree! That's why didn't even bother with the index. Besides, so heavily invested in Malaysia via ETF already. So my focus now is on shoveling more foreign funds.

Admittedly, I find it hard NOT to time the market sometimes. I usually invest right after I get my salary, but I'm thinking - Maybe I should invest when VT / VTI is lower. And then I hesitate, and then weeks pass and so on lol.

About VOO etc, I watched a recent video by Ziet that made me more assured that it's okay to invest in VT for now until I amassed too much and I can buy Ireland domiciled funds to make it worth it. Just search on Youtube "The Best & Cheapest Way to Invest in the S&P 500 Index | VOO vs CSPX" (sorry can't include links right now) .

My next mission is to find a PRS fund (global) to replace my current one which is Malaysian based. Just want to have more foreign funds. Eyeing Manulife Shariah PRS-Global REIT Fund or AIA PAM – Global Islamic Growth Fund. Must do homework on them first. Once the PRS tax benefit is taken away I'll stop putting into this fund.
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post Jun 3 2022, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(Davidtcf @ Jun 3 2022, 10:24 AM)
not true, your returns from VOO will be lower than that of VUAA/CSPX due to the 30% tax on dividends. For VUAA/CSPX it will be 15% tax on the accumulated dividends which is lower. Short term you do not see much difference in the % gained, but long term wise after many years it will be apparent. For countries with tax treaty with US or US citizens, they will able to claim back part of those dividend tax or offset them.. for us, EU and Singaporeans investors that has no tax treaty with US, it will be an extra 15% loss for us each time when dividends are paid out.

This is even more apparent for ETFs like VOO as they are distributing the dividends. Every time you receive dividends it already has an extra 15% tax charged to it.

Better stick to Irish domiciled types like VUAA/CSPX. Currently no way to buy them via brokers in Malaysia, so have to use brokers like IBKR to do so.
The part we will be charged higher is the transfer fees from Malaysia to US. Even using Wise to IBKR has some fees, but most people prefer transfer from Wise to CIMB SG, then to IBKR pay USD2 per conversion to USD (spot rate). For long term investing then it is worth it.
*
also if you buy VOO via our local brokers like Rakuten, will end up paying more also due to their high FX spread. Rakuten also requires every buy and sell be converted back and forth to MYR. You'll lose 2 times via currency exchange if buy via them. Other brokers I'm not sure.. but so far don't hear any good stories about them also.

So in the end IBKR still cheaper. Can watch more youtube videos on why they are the best now. Check "Ziet Invest" videos on this also.. he also got explain why Irish domiciled is better.

Then lastly another method is via robo advisors. They will charge management fees of around 0.7-1% a year. They will buy US ETFs only due to larger market cap, lower broker fees, and faster execution. This 0.7-1% will add up as years go by.

This post has been edited by Davidtcf: Jun 3 2022, 12:45 PM
Medufsaid
post Jun 3 2022, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Jun 3 2022, 11:17 AM)
Well, part of the Bogleheads modus operandi is to invest at fixed intervals and don't time the market anyway, so it's surprisingly a smaller deal than it is. For broad market index, it's really hard to profit or loss from the movement, no need to worry too much about it.
*
it depends on what bogleheads is to you. is it a strict religion with the death penalty for apostasy, or is it the foundation of your final investment strategy.

e.g., you have regular DCA intervals (HODL) and some warchest funds to topup in case of a dip

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 3 2022, 12:55 PM
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post Jun 3 2022, 03:37 PM

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This is how I sort my portfolio:

I have a big category called Financial Assets. Under that there is:

1. Everyday banking: this is the savings account where celery comes in and go out.

2. Emergency Fund. I prefer to dump mine into a Mortgage Flexi Account.

3. EPF: this is the mandatory and can't be adjusted, but I'm in the category of eligible to withdraw. If a really bad bear market comes, I will withdraw and put in 4 (below). But otherwise, I don't touch this.

4. Investment portfolio: This is where the rest is. Stocks, ETF, Bonds, MMF, Funds, Asx, PRS, cash balance in the brokerage account.

It is No 4 that I actively manage and adjust allocation. Meaning if I say I'm 100% equities, it would mean all of 4 is in equities (practically impossible).

Oh..and I also don't have FD and any investment linked insurance.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jun 3 2022, 03:38 PM
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post Jun 3 2022, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Jun 3 2022, 03:37 PM)
This is how I sort my portfolio:

I have a big category called Financial Assets. Under that there is:

1. Everyday banking: this is the savings account where celery comes in and go out.

2. Emergency Fund. I prefer to dump mine into a Mortgage Flexi Account.

3. EPF: this is the mandatory and can't be adjusted, but I'm in the category of eligible to withdraw. If a really bad bear market comes, I will withdraw and put in 4 (below). But otherwise, I don't touch this.

4. Investment portfolio: This is where the rest is. Stocks, ETF, Bonds, MMF, Funds, Asx, PRS, cash balance in the brokerage account.

It is No 4 that I actively manage and adjust allocation. Meaning if I say I'm 100% equities, it would mean all of 4 is in equities (practically impossible).

Oh..and I also don't have FD and any investment linked insurance.
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That is quite good very similar to mine except I have Point 5 FD and endowment insurance. Next would be what is your percentage allocation for each point 1 to 4? Point 4 will be higher percentage since you do not have Point 5 of FD, insurance correct?

To be frank my Point 5 is way higher than my Point 4 haha. That is why for Point 4 in all my posts for any new investment instrument I keep asking what is the minimum capital to enter as I allocate little. I only slowly increase once I get profitable based on my minimum capital and comfortable with the investment instrument. My strategy is like soccer. I have defenders, defensive midfielders as backbone and assign 1-2 out and out strikers to score goals. Boring I know but I don't hope for big wins. Sneak in a goal or draw is enough.
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post Jun 3 2022, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 3 2022, 04:24 PM)
That is quite good very similar to mine except I have Point 5 FD and endowment insurance. Next would be what is your percentage allocation for each point 1 to 4? Point 4 will be higher percentage since you do not have Point 5 of FD, insurance correct?

*
Points 1 and 2 are quite small less than 5%. I don't even consider them as investments.

Point 3 I have no control over the investment. Point 4, I try to beat Point 3 performance by a few % points annualized.

QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 3 2022, 04:24 PM)

To be frank my Point 5 is way higher than my Point 4 haha. That is why for Point 4 in all my posts for any new investment instrument I keep asking what is the minimum capital to enter as I allocate little. I only slowly increase once I get profitable based on my minimum capital and comfortable with the investment instrument. My strategy is like soccer. I have defenders, defensive midfielders as backbone and assign 1-2 out and out strikers to score goals. Boring I know but I don't hope for big wins. Sneak in a goal or draw is enough.
*
My defenders are in Point 4. I'm a market timer of sorts..some time go offence, and sometime on defence and can make big moves in the portfolio. The main objective of defence is to preserve gains. Many investors made big gains in last 2 years but were not able to preserve those gains.

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post Jun 4 2022, 03:58 PM

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can FSMOne's ETF RSP buy fractional share of VT ? If yes gonna pay RM 10 to activate CDS account.
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post Jun 4 2022, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 4 2022, 03:58 PM)
can FSMOne's ETF RSP buy fractional share of VT ? If yes gonna pay RM 10 to activate CDS account.
*
maybe can try check this out? while waiting for value added responses

https://www.fsmone.com.my/etfs/tools/stocks-calculator

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post Jun 4 2022, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 4 2022, 03:58 PM)
can FSMOne's ETF RSP buy fractional share of VT ? If yes gonna pay RM 10 to activate CDS account.
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Forget about it. Better to use webull or ibkr to RSP. Cheaper. UDD0 (webull) Usd0.35/transaction.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jun 4 2022, 06:25 PM
encikbuta
post Jun 4 2022, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 4 2022, 03:58 PM)
can FSMOne's ETF RSP buy fractional share of VT ? If yes gonna pay RM 10 to activate CDS account.
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i think the answer is yes, can! see screenshot. and yea, VT is part of the first 50 US ETFs with the RSP plan.

or you could always call up FSM during office hours to confirm. customer service quite good.


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post Jun 4 2022, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 4 2022, 06:05 PM)
i think the answer is yes, can! see screenshot. and yea, VT is part of the first 50 US ETFs with the RSP plan.

or you could always call up FSM during office hours to confirm. customer service quite good.
*
Is this Malaysia or sg version?
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post Jun 4 2022, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jun 4 2022, 06:21 PM)
Is this Malaysia or sg version?
*
while waiting for his confirmation,...
i think it is the FSM MY version

https://www.fsmone.com.my/support/frequentl...tUniqueKey=2892


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encikbuta
post Jun 4 2022, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jun 4 2022, 06:21 PM)
Is this Malaysia or sg version?
*
Yea I was careful to make sure it was the FSM Malaysia site smile.gif
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post Jun 7 2022, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ May 5 2022, 12:02 AM)


A great add-on to my previous post.

"If you’re excited about an investment, it’s probably not a good investment."
*
Short listening material on this topic if the video does not interest you.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ijwnRMl39Pxhpy80rCiyC
nguminhuang P
post Jun 7 2022, 06:36 PM

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i just applied for RSP FSM one for VT. the fees is only 0.08% or 1USD min fee. can't wait to see the conversion rate

user posted image
RayleighH
post Jun 7 2022, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 7 2022, 06:36 PM)
i just applied for RSP FSM one for VT.  the fees is only 0.08% or 1USD min fee.  can't wait to see the conversion rate

user posted image
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Your RSP value is only RM400, so your fees will be roughly 1.1% for every transaction. Kinda missing out of the purpose of Vanguard funds with their low fees of 0.08%. Perhaps it might be possible to adjust the RSP to a longer frequency so that your transaction is at least RM5500 to keep your fees to the minimum?

In FSM's VT webpage, there is a calculator tab. The fees quoted there seems to be quite expensive. Not sure if these are extra fees inclusive of the 0.08% or USD1 min.

user posted image

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 7 2022, 09:38 PM
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post Jun 7 2022, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 7 2022, 09:00 PM)
Your RSP value is only RM400, so your fees will be roughly 1.1% for every transaction. Kinda missing out of the purpose of Vanguard funds with their low fees of 0.08%. Perhaps it might be possible to adjust the RSP to a longer frequency so that your transaction is at least RM5500 to keep your fees to the minimum?
I have flagged before FSM RSP for US listed ETF not cheap. HKEX ETF ok cheap. But sometimes investors prefer local broker with a presence in own country so then FSM RSP look good
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post Jun 8 2022, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 7 2022, 11:53 PM)
I have flagged before FSM RSP for US listed ETF not cheap. HKEX ETF ok cheap. But sometimes investors prefer local broker with a presence in own country so then FSM RSP look good
*
After some digging, I found out that the the minimum fee of 0.08% or USD1.00 is for monthly RSP. I could only find this information published in FSM Singapore's website (Link). Not sure where this information is on FSM Malaysia's website. To enjoy the low rate of 0.08%, one will have to be able to contribute, monthly, at least USD1,250 or MYR5,500.
user posted image

If you can't afford to fork out this much per month and decide to only do a lump sump purchase after saving up for a few months, the minimum fee is at an exorbitant rate of 0.08% or USD8.80 (Link). In order to enjoy the low rate of 0.08% fees, one will have to make a lump sum purchase of USD11,000 or MYR48,300. That is freaking expensive.
user posted image

I don't think it is wise to invest in ETFs through FSM unless if you are able to fork out the amount mentioned above. Otherwise, FSM fees basically defeat the whole purpose of ETF investing which is their extremely low total expense ratios. You're better off going through a different brokerage like IBKR.

Perhaps their exorbitant fees is to protect the other UT funds available through their FSM website. Otherwise, probably many people will withdraw money from other UT funds to ETFs.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 8 2022, 02:47 PM
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post Jun 8 2022, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 8 2022, 02:43 PM)
After some digging, I found out that the the minimum fee of 0.08% or USD1.00 is for monthly RSP. I could only find this information published in FSM Singapore's website (Link). Not sure where this information is on FSM Malaysia's website. To enjoy the low rate of 0.08%, one will have to be able to contribute, monthly, at least USD1,250 or MYR5,500.
I think above is wrong. The whole idea of FSM RSP ETF is to allow investors to put in small amount every month. When you say MYR5,500 you calculate based on ? Can give e.g ?

My understanding is say MYR 100 then pay 0.08% is 0.08 cents or minimum USD 1. Due to the minimum of USD 1 the monthly amount if put small yes rugi. Which is why I never go for FSM RSP ETF for US listed ETF. I use it for HKEX, SGX listed ETF instead.

For ppl want to RSP US listed ETF, my current suggestion would be IBKR and Webull which unfortunately is not operating in Msia so it is considered overseas broker and some Msian investors have doubts which is ok. Then FSM MY is your next closest I guess.
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post Jun 8 2022, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 8 2022, 03:42 PM)
I think above is wrong. The whole idea of FSM RSP ETF is to allow investors to put in small amount every month. When you say MYR5,500 you calculate based on ? Can give e.g ?

My understanding is say MYR 100 then pay 0.08% is 0.08 cents or minimum USD 1. Due to the minimum of USD 1 the monthly amount if put small yes rugi. Which is why I never go for FSM RSP ETF for US listed ETF. I use it for HKEX, SGX listed ETF instead.

For ppl want to RSP US listed ETF, my current suggestion would be IBKR and Webull which unfortunately is not operating in Msia so it is considered overseas broker and some Msian investors have doubts which is ok. Then FSM MY is your next closest I guess.
*
The USD1,250 is based on the assumption that one will want to minimize the brokerage fee. In this case with FSM, one can minimize to the point where the fees are only 0.08% of your purchase cost.

The calculation is as follow:
0.08/100 x Z = USD1.00
Z = USD1,250 or MYR5,500 (1USD = MYR4.40)

Any purchase above this amount will entitle you to enjoy the low fees of 0.08%. Any purchase below this amount and a higher portion of your RSP will go to fees.
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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 8 2022, 05:45 PM)
The USD1,250 is based on the assumption that one will want to minimize the brokerage fee. In this case with FSM, one can minimize to the point where the fees are only 0.08% of your purchase cost.

The calculation is as follow:
0.08/100 x Z = USD1.00
Z = USD1,250 or MYR5,500 (1USD = MYR4.40)

Any purchase above this amount will entitle you to enjoy the low fees of 0.08%. Any purchase below this amount and a higher portion of your RSP will go to fees.
*
Thank you for your clear e.g You see FSM RSP ETF I think was created for ppl with low capital but still want to participate in the ETF shares buy. So yes your illustration is coming from want to minimize brokerage fees that is how you get that big number. But if one has that big number will not consider this RSP ETF anymore.

Now say Msian want a local broker to buy US ETF shares at affordable cost (aka low capital) what would you recommend? You need to know some ppl can only consider local broker and that will narrow down the choices isn't it?
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post Jun 8 2022, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 8 2022, 05:57 PM)
Thank you for your clear e.g You see FSM RSP ETF I think was created for ppl with low capital but still want to participate in the ETF shares buy. So yes your illustration is coming from want to minimize brokerage fees that is how you get that big number. But if one has that big number will not consider this RSP ETF anymore.

Now say Msian want a local broker to buy US ETF shares at affordable cost (aka low capital) what would you recommend? You need to know some ppl can only consider local broker and that will narrow down the choices isn't it?
*
If your uncompromisable criteria is "local broker", then I don't think you have any other choice. If I am not mistaken, IBKR started becaming popular among Malaysians a few years back also because there were no other affordable option to purchase US ETFs. In fact, if one does not mind foreign broker, IBKR fees are much cheaper than FSM ETF even for people with low capital. USD0.35 per transaction.

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post Jun 8 2022, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 8 2022, 06:08 PM)
If your uncompromisable criteria is "local broker", then I don't think you have any other choice. If I am not mistaken, IBKR started becaming popular among Malaysians a few years back also because there were no other affordable option to purchase US ETFs. In fact, if one does not mind foreign broker, IBKR fees are much cheaper than FSM ETF even for people with low capital. USD0.35 per transaction.
That has been 'broken' recently by Webull Spore which is 0 per transaction. Since both are overseas broker, one may want to consider Webull Spore over IBKR but of cuz in terms of strength and size IBKR is bigger so pay 35 cents per transaction if you want that. But it seems the Webull Spore app is somehow blocked for install for Msian so yes stick to IBKR.
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post Jun 8 2022, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 8 2022, 06:14 PM)
That has been 'broken' recently by Webull Spore which is 0 per transaction. Since both are overseas broker, one may want to consider Webull Spore over IBKR but of cuz in terms of strength and size IBKR is bigger so pay 35 cents per transaction if you want that. But it seems the Webull Spore app is somehow blocked for install for Msian so yes stick to IBKR.
*
I remember before IBKR, the discussion around here was about TD. Unfortunately Malaysians do not have easy access to TD. Therefore, the discussion progress got stalled for a while till IBKR became an option through Tradestation. Perhaps in the future Malaysians will also have access to brokerage which charges zero commission for ETFs, hopefully.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 8 2022, 06:20 PM
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 8 2022, 03:42 PM)
I think above is wrong. The whole idea of FSM RSP ETF is to allow investors to put in small amount every month. When you say MYR5,500 you calculate based on ? Can give e.g ?

My understanding is say MYR 100 then pay 0.08% is 0.08 cents or minimum USD 1. Due to the minimum of USD 1 the monthly amount if put small yes rugi. Which is why I never go for FSM RSP ETF for US listed ETF. I use it for HKEX, SGX listed ETF instead.

For ppl want to RSP US listed ETF, my current suggestion would be IBKR and Webull which unfortunately is not operating in Msia so it is considered overseas broker and some Msian investors have doubts which is ok. Then FSM MY is your next closest I guess.
*
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?


encikbuta
post Jun 13 2022, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM)
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?
*
yea correct! and to further strengthen your case, if you invest RM2000 in Rakuten, the brokerage charge goes to the next tier which is RM9 per trade, lol. and on top of that, there's the stamp duty (RM1 charge for every RM1000 invested). but that (stamp duty) applies anyway on top of the brokerage charge for any local platform. if you prefer local platform (like me), looks like FSM ETF RSP plan is the way to go.

i have already dumped RM150k into Rakuten (all in VT), a month before FSM introduced the damn ETF RSP plan! so by my own accord, i'm currently 'stuck' in Rakuten because of three reasons:
i) the market situation is damn volatile now so i sked i might miss the recovery window while I'm transferring my VT purchases from Rakuten to FSM. I mean, it could work the other way round (i.e. i benefit from evading further drops in the market during the transfer) but i'm not a gambling man.
ii) the fees involved to do the transfer is rather high especially for my amount of money.
iii) compulsive me cannot tahan having two separate brokerages for the same ETF/holding.

This post has been edited by encikbuta: Jun 13 2022, 06:10 PM
Medufsaid
post Jun 13 2022, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(encikbuta @ Jun 13 2022, 02:24 PM)
i'm currently 'stuck' in Rakuten
*
being stuck in Rakuten could end up a blessing. at anytime some RSP plan killer might set up shop locally

This post has been edited by Medufsaid: Jun 13 2022, 02:44 PM
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post Jun 13 2022, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM)
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?
*
You are not wrong. The other reader is most likely using IBKR as reference (which is 35 cents fee per trade) to compare and that is why it is expensive. If you compare strictly with only local broker then it is cheaper of cuz. The context of the discussion is always important.

In fact for me as Sporean, IBKR is too expensive as I found Webull Spore 0 fees so I with Webull. Reason I got 18-20 ETF I want to DCA imagine 35 cents multiply by 20 each time? Also IBKR convert to USD each time charge me USD 2. In case someone ask me why so many ETF is becuz I prefer to invest in country specific ETF e.g iShares MSCI Australia EWA, iShares China A Shares CNYA, iShares MSCI Indonesia EIDO, iShares Latin America 40 ILF, iShares MSCI South Korea EWY, iShares MSCI Taiwan EWT, iShares MSCI Thailand THD etc. Those so called single world centric ETF if you take a look is still a lot with US stocks in them so if US market fall like now those world centric ETF are not spared either.
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post Jun 13 2022, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 13 2022, 01:17 PM)
Hello everyone,
I find the conversation about FSM RSP ETF fascinating as it'll be good to automate my investments.

However, I'm super confused about the fee structure due to the discussion.

As far as I understand, let's say your RSP is RM2000 a month. The transaction fee should then be 0.08% of the RSP or min US1. So in this case, it'll be US$1 - RM4.50 which, for local brokers, is considered quite affordable compared to Rakuten's RM8 per trade or MIDF's freaking RM36 per trade. This is, of course, for those who prefer local brokers like me. (I have been told to death that IBKR is cheaper, I totally get it lol)

Am I correct on the math here here or off base?
*
As others have mentioned, your calculation is correct. FSM RSP ETF is relatively more expensive than IBKR for Malaysian. However one downside with FSM ETF is that in the event that you would like to inject or withdraw any amount outside of the RSP (i.e buy the dip or sudden loss of confidence), the fees jumps all the way to 0.08% or minimum USD8.80. So be aware.

(Do correct me if I got this wrong.)

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 13 2022, 06:15 PM
jutamind
post Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM

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Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts

QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 13 2022, 06:01 PM)
As others have mentioned, your calculation is correct. FSM RSP ETF is relatively more expensive than IBKR for Malaysian. However one downside with FSM ETF is that in the event that you would like to inject or withdraw any amount outside of the RSP (i.e buy the dip or sudden loss of confidence), the fees jumps all the way to 0.08% or minimum USD8.80. So be aware.

(Do correct me if I got this wrong.)
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post Jun 13 2022, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM)
Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts
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That is an option. Personally, I would prefer to be at as few different platforms as possible.
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post Jun 14 2022, 12:25 AM

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FT article

ETF Hub: Passive Investing

Passive investing has increased US stock volatility, study finds
Analysis raises fresh questions over widespread adoption of index-based investing

by Steve Johnson (YESTERDAY)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


A very recent paper, you guys can read it here: https://sites.insead.edu/facultyresearch/re...e.cfm?fid=68974 (Link provided by FT.)
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 13 2022, 09:01 PM)
Why not use FSM for RSP and Rakuten for ad hoc purchase? Win win in terms of cost but need to maintain 2 different trading accounts
*
Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
RayleighH
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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM)
Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
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Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 14 2022, 08:47 AM
jutamind
post Jun 14 2022, 10:19 AM

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For me, estate planning issue. This is especially true if you have fairly large investment sum (at least 6 figures and above). My partner is not competent in financial stuffs. Even with userid and password given to the partner, my partner wont probably know the intricacies on dealing with IBKR and foreign fund transfer. Should i go belly up one day, my partner just bring the LA letter to these local financial firms to claim for my estate.

I suppose transaction cost will probably not coming down to IBKR cost level anytime in the future given the protective nature of our financial market. Otherwise, all local brokers will go broke. So I make do with whatever local options i have despite the inconvenience of maintaining multiple platforms.

QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 08:46 AM)
Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?
*
This post has been edited by jutamind: Jun 14 2022, 01:05 PM
jutamind
post Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM

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For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.

QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 07:14 AM)
Was just thinking this. I prefer to stay in one broker if possible but unfortunately I kept opening with one that ended up not being the preferred one. So I now have accounts at Malacca Securities, Rakuten Trade, MIDF and next, FSM one? lol
*
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 14 2022, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
*
That's good to know! I still have so much to learn about buying shares - I didn't know we can transfer wink.gif
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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 08:46 AM)
Genuine question. May I know the reason that you would prefer local brokerage over firms like IBKR despite their competitive fees and convenience (all in one)?
*
For me the reason is very personal. I'm someone that can get overwhelmed quite easily when it comes to financial matters. I need to make investing as brain dead simple as possible. I've read up on how to transfer funds to IBKR and I'm like, gawd, so complicating. This will cause friction for me, which means I'll hesitate to invest and slow down my investing too.

Also, the idea of having most of my wealth in an overseas brokerage where I have no easy access to their offices in case shit hits the fan makes me nervous. And the thought of what I need to do to get that money back in case anything happens is also overwhelming. I get that the likelihood of that happening is very slim, but I rather play it safe.

Maybe I'll put a portion of my income in IBKR one day, but for now I'll use local brokers.
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post Jun 14 2022, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
*
QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 11:20 AM)
That's good to know! I still have so much to learn about buying shares - I didn't know we can transfer wink.gif
*
For Bursa shares, it's RM10 per counter regardless of amount.

I have also transferred foreign shares before among local brokers, but I can't recall the fees how much.


RayleighH
post Jun 14 2022, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 14 2022, 11:24 AM)
For me the reason is very personal. I'm someone that can get overwhelmed quite easily when it comes to financial matters. I need to make investing as brain dead simple as possible. I've read up on how to transfer funds to IBKR and I'm like, gawd, so complicating. This will cause friction for me, which means I'll hesitate to invest and slow down my investing too.

Also, the idea of having most of my wealth in an overseas brokerage where I have no easy access to their offices in case shit hits the fan makes me nervous. And the thought of what I need to do to get that money back in case anything happens is also overwhelming. I get that the likelihood of that happening is very slim, but I rather play it safe.

Maybe I'll put a portion of my income in IBKR one day, but for now I'll use local brokers.
*
Just so you know, transferring into USD is the only one which is relatively more complicated, where you are advised to open a bank account in Singapore. Transferring into other European currencies (EURO or GBP) is rather straight forward. No need to go through Singapore bank account. Just direct from your bank account to IBKR using Wise/Instarem to convert.

In fact, some mentioned that they were able to transfer into USD directly from their local bank through Wise. Maybe this is a new development. Lon3Rang3r00

For withdrawal, some guides mention that you can withdraw directly from ibkr to your local banks. However, I've not gotten into the details of the fees and if it's applicable to all banks in Malaysia. Perhaps there is a catch where the forex rate will not be as good as Wise but I'll have to do more research.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 15 2022, 12:44 AM
bcombat
post Jun 14 2022, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Jun 14 2022, 10:24 AM)
For local shares, i think u can transfer from one broker to another with minimal cost. I did a transfer many years back i think it only cost RM10 per transfer but that was for direct CDS account.
*
Just use Bursa Anywhere to transfer the local share from one security firm to the other. Just did it few months back from CIMB iTrade to M- plus.
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post Jun 14 2022, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 14 2022, 05:14 PM)
Just so you know, transferring into USD is the only one which is relatively more complicated, where you are advised to open a bank account in Singapore. Transferring into other European currencies (EURO or GBP) is rather straight forward. No need to go through Singapore bank account. Just direct from your bank account to IBKR using Wise/Instarem to convert.

In fact, some mentioned that they were able to transfer into USD directly from their local bank through Wise. Maybe this is a new development. [email=Lon3Rang3r00]Lon3Rang3r00[/email]

For withdrawal, some guides mention that you can withdraw directly from ibkr to your local banks. However, I've not gotten into the details of the fees and if it's applicable to all banks in Malaysia. Perhaps there is a catch where the forex rate will not be as good as Wise but I'll have to do more research.
*
Yep, from local bank direct to ibkr through wise is possible. Been doing that since I had wise and ibkr.

It is called direct ach. Takes a day to complete the transfer but which is fine for me since it is safe so far.
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post Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM

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user posted image

An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
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post Jun 16 2022, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM)
An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
*
Thanks for sharing so the minimum USD 1 is applied. The USD 0.23 stamp duty is additional info. FSM RSP program disadvantage is cannot choose the date to purchase and sell. As for topup I think you can go online and change but it will take effect in the next RSP buy I think.
RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM)
user posted image

An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
*
USD 1.23 fees = 1.37% "sales charge". Comparable to other FSM unit trusts. At least you are enjoying much much lesser management fees for ETFs compared to Unit Trusts.
bogletails
post Jun 16 2022, 07:44 PM

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Fsmone RSP is actually very cheap with 1usd fee only. Ibkr real cost is actually high because got a lot of minimum amount. (For example, convert money to sgd cost maybe Rm5-15) (convert SGD to USD cost 2usd minimum ), then broker fee 0.35usd. this is very expensive way if you want to DCA monthly. Or your dca amount is small.

If use ACH wise direct myr to USD also cost quite a lot fee in wise.

Fsmone is cheap because it use fixed percentage for the currency conversion part. And 1++ USD fee for broker only.

I don't know why Rayleigh keep saying rsp is expensive.. I have done the cost calculation for everything. If you DCA monthly. RSP is the cheapest way.
bogletails
post Jun 16 2022, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 16 2022, 06:23 PM)
USD 1.23 fees = 1.37% "sales charge". Comparable to other FSM unit trusts. At least you are enjoying much much lesser management fees for ETFs compared to Unit Trusts.
*
Maybe u should calculate the real cost for Ibkr path first. You conveniently ignored all those currency exchange fee from wise and use 0.35usd to compare it with 1usd fsmone. Very unfair lol.
RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(bogletails @ Jun 16 2022, 07:44 PM)
Fsmone RSP is actually very cheap with 1usd fee only. Ibkr real cost is actually high because got a lot of minimum amount. (For example, convert money to sgd cost maybe Rm5-15) (convert SGD to USD cost 2usd minimum ), then broker fee 0.35usd. this is very expensive way if you want to DCA monthly. Or your dca amount is small.

If use ACH wise direct myr to USD also cost quite a lot fee in wise.

Fsmone is cheap because it use fixed percentage for the currency conversion part. And 1++ USD fee for broker only.

I don't know why Rayleigh keep saying rsp is expensive.. I have done the cost calculation for everything. If you DCA monthly. RSP is the cheapest way.
*
QUOTE(bogletails @ Jun 16 2022, 07:46 PM)
Maybe u should calculate the real cost for Ibkr path first. You conveniently ignored all those currency exchange fee from wise and use 0.35usd to compare it with 1usd fsmone. Very unfair lol.
*
Please don't take me wrongly. I am not here to diss or promote one platform over the other. I am not saying that FSM RSP is a lot more expensive than IBKR. Initially that may be my impression of FSM RSP, but after doing further calculation, my opinion is that it is only slightly more expensive than IBKR's, but it is still a decent choice if your goal is to set up a monthly RSP. I may still be wrong for all I know. So if you have the numbers and don't mind sharing the calculations, it may do good to everyone. Who knows, maybe you would have shed some light to everyone and this FSM RSP may prove to be a competitive platform to the existing options. Again, I am not trying to be sarcastic here, in case my typing come across as that.

Even through IBKR, I do not do monthly transactions since I am trying to minimize my cost. Therefore, I only do a transaction every few months after pooling sufficient money to reduce the commission to an acceptable amount personally. This is what I was comparing to when I mentioned that FSM fees are more expensive that IBKR, especially if you conduct transactions outside of the your RSP (USD8.80 per transaction).

To be fair, in making my previous statements and assessments I should have also mentioned that I do not invest in USD denominated ETF. I mainly invest in GBP denominated ETF. The cost here is only the minimal fee at Wise and the brokerage commission. Therefore, I am may not have been aware of the costs involved for ACH wise direct from MYR to USD. Are there additional fees or is the rate as shown as when we check on Wise front page? Perhaps you can share your knowledge with me.
user posted image

On a side note, Wise fees for RM400 to SDG only costs ~RM4. Why do you quote up to RM15. Is that the cost for a different platform?

user posted image

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 16 2022, 08:43 PM
bogletails
post Jun 16 2022, 08:59 PM

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To summarize.

Use FSMone if:
1. You want to DCA every single month (not few months)
2. Your DCA amount is small. Few hundreds
3. You don't want offshore broker
4. You want automation, set it and forget
5. You want convenience

Use IBKR if:
1. You don't mind DCA Quarterly. fee is high if do frequent
2. You have large sum to invest
3. You want Ireland domiciled ETF to enjoy low dividend WHT.
4. You don't mind the process to convert
5. You don't mind money at offshore account

Ibkr offers lowest fee if portfolio is huge. Saving from WHT

FSMone is good automation alternative to stashaway which charge 0.8% per year + hidden fee from currency exchange + trading fee






RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 09:27 PM

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Just trying to do some calculations for the sake of it. Perhaps I may learn something new here too. Therefore, if there are any mistakes or any costs that I may have left out, I would appreciate if anyone were to point it out. The calculation will be updated to reflect an accurate comparison.

Comparing the converted amount between Wise and FSMone, we can probably agree that FSMone has better rates or lesser forex fee.
FSMone: USD90.30
Wise: USD89.93
Difference: USD0.37

I am not familiar with USD ACH so if there are additional fees on top of those quoted by Wise, I may have missed it out. Do inform me otherwise and I can update the calculation.
user posted image

With USD90.30 in FSMone, after deducting processing fee (USD1.00) and stamping fee (USD0.23), one is left with USD89.07 to purchase fractional ETF shares. Fees percentage comes to 1.36%

With USD89.93 is IBKR, after deducting ACH fee (USD0.50) (Update 1: thanks to izati87 for the information) and commission fee (USD0.35), one is left with USD89.08 to purchase fractional ETF shares. Fees percentage comes to 0.94%.

If the calculation so far is accurate, IBKR is, perhaps arguably, marginally cheaper. That 0.43% difference may be substantial to some, while to others they may not be bothered by that.

So for now, prior to any correction from anyone, it seems that FSM RSP benefits are mainly automation, local brokerage and convenience.

Update 2:
After another round of correction, it seems that FSM RSP may in fact be competitive or cheaper than IBKR for small amounts.

Update 1:
Clearing fee for NYSE is rather minimal for this comparison of 1.XX shares. So in my opinion, it can be considered negligible for the sake of this calculation.
user posted image

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 16 2022, 10:05 PM
RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(izati87 @ Jun 16 2022, 09:48 PM)
Wrong already. FSmone is 90.30 not 90.03
*
I was comparing to the converted amount mentioned by an earlier poster. In any case, I have updated the converted amount for FSM RSP to USD90.30.
QUOTE(nguminhuang @ Jun 16 2022, 05:09 PM)
user posted image

An update for my RSP FSM one ETF.
I make a RM 400 monthly contribution, which translate to USD 90.03 ( 1USD = 4.44 MYR).
The charge is USD 1.23.

Unfortunately, i cannot top up , and i cannot choose the date to purchase as well.
*
RayleighH
post Jun 16 2022, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(izati87 @ Jun 16 2022, 10:19 PM)
Because previous post he converted earlier. You dont know what time he converted. Now USD down 0.5% from peak already. 4.42 yesterday vs now 4.39. You need to compare both at the same timing.
*
I agree. That was one unintended omission on my side during the calculation.
pigscanfly
post Jun 16 2022, 10:30 PM

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Don't trust. Verify.
I never believe brokers/ banks/ remittance FX rates. I always compare with reputable independent 3rd parties, likexe.com

Brokers, banks and remittance services are all profit oriented. There's always some fee involved. Some fees are hidden in the FX spread and are unknown to the investor, until they compared it to an independent source. Over time, these hidden fees do add up, and can be costly if the investor is not careful.

This post has been edited by pigscanfly: Jun 16 2022, 10:31 PM
reddevil
post Jun 17 2022, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Jun 14 2022, 08:45 PM)
Yep, from local bank direct to ibkr through wise is possible. Been doing that since I had wise and ibkr.

It is called direct ach. Takes a day to complete the transfer but which is fine for me since it is safe so far.
*
Hi, any minimum and maximum amount to use direct ach from wise?
AthrunIJ
post Jun 17 2022, 07:29 AM

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QUOTE(reddevil @ Jun 17 2022, 12:44 AM)
Hi, any minimum and maximum amount to use direct ach from wise?
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Don't think have minimum. But maximum seems like RM20k as per bank negara guidelines. But I was able to send more than RM20k per day which is odd.

Edit

After transferring some money
Min is RM10
Max is RM30k per day as per Bank negara rule

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Jun 17 2022, 04:46 PM
reddevil
post Jun 17 2022, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Jun 17 2022, 07:29 AM)
Don't think have minimum. But maximum seems like RM20k as per bank negara guidelines. But I was able to send more than RM20k per day which is odd.
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Did you send direct or deposit into usd account first? May be send direct somehow skipped the 20k limit?
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post Jun 17 2022, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(reddevil @ Jun 17 2022, 04:44 PM)
Did you send direct or deposit into usd account first? May be send direct somehow skipped the 20k limit?
*
Actually let me edit it lol.

Min is RM10
Max is RM30k per day as per bank negara rules

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Jun 17 2022, 04:46 PM
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 22 2022, 08:58 AM

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Hello everyone,
I'm currently invested in these local ETFs:
- TRADEPLUS MSCI ASIA EX JAPAN REITS
- ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund (0800EA)

Understand that many Malaysians think these ETFs may have bad liquidity, though some say the market makers mitigates that problem. The idea of a Malaysian-domiciled ETF of foreign funds is very attractive to me. (Currently just plugging into VT)

What's your opinion of Malaysian ETFs? Any of you invested in local ETFs? Do you think it's worth it to do so?
Cubalagi
post Jun 22 2022, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(CoastFireSoon @ Jun 22 2022, 08:58 AM)
Hello everyone,
I'm currently invested in these local ETFs:
- TRADEPLUS MSCI ASIA EX JAPAN REITS
- ABF Malaysia Bond Index Fund (0800EA)

Understand that many Malaysians think these ETFs may have bad liquidity, though some say the market makers mitigates that problem. The idea of a Malaysian-domiciled ETF of foreign funds is very attractive to me. (Currently just plugging into VT)

What's your opinion of Malaysian ETFs? Any of you invested in local ETFs? Do you think it's worth it to do so?
*
I do.

I hold the Tradeplus Gold and Tradeplus New China in my portfolio. Tradeplus is managed by Affinhwang asset management.

I used to own the abfmy bond and got good returns in 2019, but already exited long time


Paradigmata
post Jun 22 2022, 03:02 PM

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The thing bothers me is oversea platform like IBKR is locked to one person access.

Say I, msian, suddenly accident, memory loss, turned vege or passed away, the fund is locked away.

Unless write down username, password.. Pass it on family member to keep, but high potential will kena songlap by own family member even when own self still alive
SUSTOS
post Jun 22 2022, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Jun 22 2022, 03:02 PM)
The thing bothers me is oversea platform like IBKR is locked to one person access.

Say I, msian, suddenly accident, memory loss, turned vege or passed away, the fund is locked away.

Unless write down username, password.. Pass it on family member to keep, but high potential will kena songlap by own family member even when own self still alive
*
You can open a joint account with IBKR.

Too bad your family members are like that. sweat.gif
RayleighH
post Jun 22 2022, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Jun 22 2022, 03:02 PM)
The thing bothers me is oversea platform like IBKR is locked to one person access.

Say I, msian, suddenly accident, memory loss, turned vege or passed away, the fund is locked away.

Unless write down username, password.. Pass it on family member to keep, but high potential will kena songlap by own family member even when own self still alive
*
For IBKR, you can add a Trusted Contact Person. Not sure if this is similar to KWSP's nomination or this person will have easier time to retrieve your investment in the event of incapacitation.
sgh
post Jun 22 2022, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Jun 22 2022, 03:02 PM)
The thing bothers me is oversea platform like IBKR is locked to one person access.

Say I, msian, suddenly accident, memory loss, turned vege or passed away, the fund is locked away.

Unless write down username, password.. Pass it on family member to keep, but high potential will kena songlap by own family member even when own self still alive
*
Your concern are valid. This is why I read investors willing to fork out more comm fees and go for local brokers. Actually I find Msian investor a bit limited options, IBKR Webull all setup shop in Spore but why not Msia I don't understand. This cause so much hassle for Msian investors so no choice go for overseas brokers. Although I'm Sporean I really sympathize with you all. Maybe in future IBKR Webull will setup shop in Msia. Afterall StashAway done that what is stopping others?
CoastFireSoon P
post Jun 23 2022, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 22 2022, 05:57 PM)
Your concern are valid. This is why I read investors willing to fork out more comm fees and go for local brokers. Actually I find Msian investor a bit limited options, IBKR Webull all setup shop in Spore but why not Msia I don't understand. This cause so much hassle for Msian investors so no choice go for overseas brokers. Although I'm Sporean I really sympathize with you all. Maybe in future IBKR Webull will setup shop in Msia. Afterall StashAway done that what is stopping others?
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I suspect cos the right "arrangements" have not been made in the corridors of power, if you know what I mean...
no6
post Jun 23 2022, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(RayleighH @ Jun 22 2022, 04:34 PM)
For IBKR, you can add a Trusted Contact Person. Not sure if this is similar to KWSP's nomination or this person will have easier time to retrieve your investment in the event of incapacitation.
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may i know where do we add this trusted contact person
RayleighH
post Jun 24 2022, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(no6 @ Jun 23 2022, 08:07 PM)
may i know where do we add this trusted contact person
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For me, because I haven't assign one, it keeps on popping up in a notification window whenever I sign in through their web portal.

This post has been edited by RayleighH: Jun 24 2022, 12:40 PM
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(no6 @ Jun 23 2022, 08:07 PM)
may i know where do we add this trusted contact person
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I was offered a form the moment I completed my registration. Its probably somewhere in the account settings....?
NotHideOnBush
post Jul 6 2022, 12:09 PM

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Unpopular opinion, do you guys maximize PRS 3000 MYR every year or just maximize all extra money into ETFs investing better off?
MUM
post Jul 6 2022, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(NotHideOnBush @ Jul 6 2022, 12:09 PM)
Unpopular opinion, do you guys maximize PRS 3000 MYR every year or just maximize all extra money into ETFs investing better off?
*
Many had mentioned, prs is just aimed to get the tax relief,....
No tax relief, no invest in prs.
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post Jul 6 2022, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(NotHideOnBush @ Jul 6 2022, 12:09 PM)
Unpopular opinion, do you guys maximize PRS 3000 MYR every year or just maximize all extra money into ETFs investing better off?
*
Max rm3k prs to reduced income tax.
Then any excess cash invest overseas.
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post Jul 16 2022, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Jul 6 2022, 12:20 PM)
Many had mentioned, prs is just aimed to get the tax relief,....
No tax relief, no invest in prs.
*
Agree +1.
somemore budget for investing a bit tight this year.
wedding, reno house and etc.
hence, did not pump into PRS this year.
plenty of opportunity out there right now. S&P, DJI & crypto. biggrin.gif
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post Jul 27 2022, 06:57 PM

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FT Opinion: Serious Money

Why do we still bother with active funds?
‘Manager vs Machine’ report finds that passive funds have fared better in choppy markets

by Claer Barrett (7 HOURS AGO)


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Hoshiyuu
post Mar 28 2023, 09:39 PM

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How are my fellow bogleheads holding up?
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Mar 28 2023, 10:53 PM

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Still holding brkb and vwra

Anyone ca share their etf profile?
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Mar 28 2023, 10:53 PM)
Still holding brkb and vwra

Anyone ca share their etf profile?
*
Profile as in portfolio allocation?

Mine hasn't changed since early 2022 I think.

90% VWRA Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Acc.
00% VAGU Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond ETF USD Hgd Acc. (increase to 10% by year 2040 or so)
06% AVUV Avantis US Small Cap Value ETF
04% AVDV Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Mar 28 2023, 11:03 PM
SUSTOS
post Mar 28 2023, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 28 2023, 11:03 PM)
00% VAGU Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond ETF USD Hgd Acc. (increase to 10% by year 2040 or so)
*
Is there any specific reason you look for the USD-hedged Global Aggregate ETF instead of just buying the US Aggregate Bond ETF?
Hoshiyuu
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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 28 2023, 11:08 PM)
Is there any specific reason you look for the USD-hedged Global Aggregate ETF instead of just buying the US Aggregate Bond ETF?
*
I believe the common choice is AGGU/AGGG to replace BND/BNDW? My reasoning to VAGU is mostly, in the following order:

1. Ireland domiciled witholding tax benefits.
2. Vanguard is likely to lower their fee automatically in the long run as the AUM grow. This is historically true but now debatable with the passing of John Bogle.
3. Global instead of US only for diversification - the same reason I buy VWRA.
4. I picked USD-hedged version mostly for the however little effect is has on the USD-SGD-MYR relationship and the status of USD - happy to be corrected on this, but it's not like I would ever consider VAGP and AFAIK there isn't an unhedged version of vanguard aggregate bond.

This post has been edited by Hoshiyuu: Mar 29 2023, 12:23 AM
DJFoo000
post Mar 29 2023, 08:45 AM

Really? That's the best reply you can come up with?
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100% in ISAC:LON. Higher trading volume compared to VWRA. Also longer trading history so I can stare at the charts when I'm bored kek.
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post Mar 29 2023, 08:49 AM

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Highest peak was +USD1.3k, lowest peak was -USD3k

Now hovering break even point.

HODL!!!! and DCA.

50 50 between VWRA and MIT and MLT.

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Mar 29 2023, 08:50 AM
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Mar 29 2023, 11:32 AM

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Wanted to add SPY or small portion of reits

Suggest for global reit or pure sg reit
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Mar 29 2023, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 28 2023, 11:03 PM)
Profile as in portfolio allocation?

Mine hasn't changed since early 2022 I think.

90% VWRA Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Acc.
00% VAGU Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond ETF USD Hgd Acc. (increase to 10% by year 2040 or so)
06% AVUV Avantis US Small Cap Value ETF
04% AVDV Avantis International Small Cap Value ETF
*
Niceee

I aim for 70 vwra 30 brk b
SUSTOS
post Mar 29 2023, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 29 2023, 12:23 AM)
I believe the common choice is AGGU/AGGG to replace BND/BNDW? My reasoning to VAGU is mostly, in the following order:

1. Ireland domiciled witholding tax benefits.
2. Vanguard is likely to lower their fee automatically in the long run as the AUM grow. This is historically true but now debatable with the passing of John Bogle.
3. Global instead of US only for diversification - the same reason I buy VWRA.
4. I picked USD-hedged version mostly for the however little effect is has on the USD-SGD-MYR relationship and the status of USD - happy to be corrected on this, but it's not like I would ever consider VAGP and AFAIK there isn't an unhedged version of vanguard aggregate bond.
*
Your points make sense. Reasonings are clear as well.

A few things to be mindful though:

1. The actual bond holdings of the Aggregate funds (be they US/Global) are very different from the index. Sometimes you see Chinese/Japanese government bonds at the top 10/10% holdings in the fund sheets while in some other cases the top 10/10% holdings may be US corporate + treasuries. Most bond ETFs use the "stratified sampling" methodology where only a portion of the bonds universe are sampled and selectively represented by the fund. hence, the ETF exposure can be wildly different from what the index really represents. You are advised to read the annual report/interim report of the ETF to have a full look of the entire fund's bond holdings before you invest in it.

2. Hedging currencies involved the use of FX swaps/forwards which are derivatives. As with all derivative contracts, there is implicit leverage (and implicit lending/borrowing for swaps). Most likely, the ETF's bond holdings will be used as a collateral for those swaps/forwards positions. In extreme events, those collateral positions may give you trouble (think of UK pension fund's LDI crisis). And from my derivative class lesson, hedging currencies with swaps/forwards are usually costly in the sense that the market will move against you when you enter into such contracts. (Technically, we say the uncovered interest rate parity does not hold and the counterparty investment banks tend to make a profit with a Sharpe ratio of about 0.5.)

So if possible, use natural hedging (invest in the share class whose currency you are comfortable with) or choose the unhedged share class of the ETF. Try to keep the underlying as simple/as close to just the bonds itself without all those unnecessary derivative positions.
Hoshiyuu
post Mar 29 2023, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 29 2023, 12:28 PM)
Your points make sense. Reasonings are clear as well.

A few things to be mindful though:

1. The actual bond holdings of the Aggregate funds (be they US/Global) are very different from the index. Sometimes you see Chinese/Japanese government bonds at the top 10/10% holdings in the fund sheets while in some other cases the top 10/10% holdings may be US corporate + treasuries. Most bond ETFs use the "stratified sampling" methodology where only a portion of the bonds universe are sampled and selectively represented by the fund. hence, the ETF exposure can be wildly different from what the index really represents. You are advised to read the annual report/interim report of the ETF to have a full look of the entire fund's bond holdings before you invest in it.

2. Hedging currencies involved the use of FX swaps/forwards which are derivatives. As with all derivative contracts, there is implicit leverage (and implicit lending/borrowing for swaps). Most likely, the ETF's bond holdings will be used as a collateral for those swaps/forwards positions. In extreme events, those collateral positions may give you trouble (think of UK pension fund's LDI crisis). And from my derivative class lesson, hedging currencies with swaps/forwards are usually costly in the sense that the market will move against you when you enter into such contracts. (Technically, we say the uncovered interest rate parity does not hold and the counterparty investment banks tend to make a profit with a Sharpe ratio of about 0.5.)

So if possible, use natural hedging (invest in the share class whose currency you are comfortable with) or choose the unhedged share class of the ETF. Try to keep the underlying as simple/as close to just the bonds itself without all those unnecessary derivative positions.
*
Appreciate the in-depth advice!Will definitely keep both of your point in mind. Hopefully by the time I start allocating into bonds, a more suitable ETF would've been made available so I don't need to worry about either point...
Hoshiyuu
post Mar 29 2023, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(AthrunIJ @ Mar 29 2023, 08:49 AM)
Highest peak was +USD1.3k, lowest peak was -USD3k

Now hovering break even point.

HODL!!!! and DCA.

50 50 between VWRA and MIT and MLT.
*
That's rather high tilt into sector-specific, region-specfic reits, do you mind sharing your thought process behind your allocation? What's your investment horizon?
AthrunIJ
post Mar 29 2023, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 29 2023, 09:41 PM)
That's rather high tilt into sector-specific, region-specfic reits, do you mind sharing your thought process behind your allocation? What's your investment horizon?
*
I just love reits for the dividends and the ETF for growth.

Why Singapore? Very little land so the value should increase overtime. Though with current sudden rental rate hike, it might backfire abit so monitoring abit...

That high tilt in the negative was because of the interest rate scare for the reit so it tumbles and I did buy during the drop. So when it atablize upward. It got back to a nice greenish colour.

I noticed the reits increase during covid and stabalize rather quickly and also my experience in Mreit before so not too worried in the long run.

With online purchasing getting traction, factory, ware houses will be in demand.
As for data centers, we are in the data age. I am in the tech sector so I bet on it. 😛 Trying to dig around if data centres will retrofit for AI stuffs so even better valuation in my opinion.

I am in it for the long run, min 8 years. So HODL AND DCA!!! I am still a young uncle 😭. Time is on my side 😛

This post has been edited by AthrunIJ: Mar 29 2023, 10:26 PM
SUSTOS
post Mar 29 2023, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 29 2023, 09:39 PM)
Appreciate the in-depth advice!Will definitely keep both of your point in mind. Hopefully by the time I start allocating into bonds, a more suitable ETF would've been made available so I don't need to worry about either point...
*
It's impossible to not worry about "stratified sampling". The reason is simple, stocks have indefinite lifetime (barring closure/bankruptcy). Bonds (except unconditional perpetuals) will mature some time in the future. So, the ETF/index provider will have to "rebalance" the index constituents by buying new bonds to replace those that have matured. And hence the issue: which one to buy under the "stratified sampling" strategy?

--------------------

Besides the issues mentioned in my post earlier, there is another conflict of interest present when using the stratified sampling strategy. Fund managers tend to choose bonds/stocks that can be lent to other investors to be sold short in order to earn extra return for the fund. So sometimes, the sampling becomes "biased" in the sense that securities which are less liquid/cannot be sold short easily will be underweighted in the resultant "sampled" portfolio of the ETF in question.

Just something to be mindful of.

This post has been edited by TOS: Mar 30 2023, 08:55 PM

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