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 Bogleheads Local Chapter [Malaysia Edisi]

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SUSTOS
post Feb 15 2022, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(cucumber @ Feb 15 2022, 09:25 AM)
Great thread! Thanks for starting one.

I have a question.

I know IBKR is probably the preferred broker for most for its low fees, can buy Irish Domiciled ETF like VWRA and if you are buying US ones you get to DCA by buying fractional shares.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable putting all my money in a single broker (not to mention outside of Malaysia).

So I'm curious, do you guys diversify / split to different broker accounts? If yes, what do you use and what are you favourite funds? VWRA, VTI+VXUS, VT?
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You are always encouraged to diversify, brokers included. But the hassle of managing multiple accounts, the different fee structures, different countries in which the brokers are based (hence possible legal issues) can be intimidating. So it does require scale for diversification to outweigh the risk of using a single broker. After all you are assured of the bottom line: all brokers are insured up to a certain limit. The bottom line is the same regardless of brokers.

That said, if you value diversification on top of all regardless of your asset size and above all the hassle, feel free to open as many brokerage accounts as you like.

This post has been edited by TOS: Feb 15 2022, 10:58 AM
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(melondance @ Apr 4 2022, 08:14 PM)
I hold VT but its basically the same except for the 15% withholding tax  icon_rolleyes.gif
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You missed some important points. They look the same. The largest holdings look similar.

But they follow different indices. VWRA follows FTSE All World Index, VT follows FTSE Global All-Cap Index.

Global All Cap has twice the no. of constituents compared to All World.

Global All cap includes small cap (All world excludes small caps), hence the larger no. of constituents.

----------------------------------------------------

On top of that, VWRA follows Irish tax laws and Ireland's law, VT follows US law. They are different. Ireland is a tax haven. There is an added layer of country and regulatory risk not seen in VWRA superficially (the lower WHT comes with a hidden price).

Just something to note.

In the end, passive investing still depends on which indices you follow. Too many variants of indices on the streets and you will turn passive into active since people will start to compare indices (this index outperform that one... etc.)

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 08:49 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Apr 4 2022, 09:10 PM)
Yeap, hence the eternal SP500 vs VT vs VXUS+VTI vs SWRD/IWDA+EIMI/WSML vs VWRA portfolio discussions and disagreements.

At this level of diversification and generally low costs, the choices among these start to become a way smaller concern, and the biggest impact is going to be the ability to ignore everything, deposit regularly, diligently until retirement.

Thanks for the value added replies!
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I wished investing is as simple as that. tongue.gif

Anyway, good luck for our fellow Bogleheads. I support Bogle's movement actually. Time to take back Wall Street's money and reinvest them. thumbsup.gif
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 4 2022, 09:45 PM)
All these ETFs are also run by Wall Street..
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At least you pay less in terms of management fees compared to active funds. A lot less. Low single digit percent versus 0.1-0.5% is about one order of magnitude (compounded for long, you save a lot).

And you avoid the painstaking need to buy hundred or thousands of shares yourself. The managers' hands are tied to their backs. They must follow the index (a bit of nuance: this is only true for "fully replicated" ETFs, not for "index sampled" ETFs).

(My "Wall Street" figuratively represents the active fund managers, not "Wall Street" as a whole. biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 10:06 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 4 2022, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Apr 4 2022, 10:35 PM)
And it would even be better if Msian can use EPF and Sporean can use CPF for the regular invest due to super low cost. Anyone know why cannot becuz there is still risk?
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You can invest via CPF in those instruments listed on SGX only. https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/growing-your-...-scheme-options

Similarly, those in Malaysia can also stick to Malaysian mutual funds only (more restrictive than SG since you can't even touch stocks, bonds etc.) https://www.kwsp.gov.my/member/investment

I am not aware of "regular investment plans" but you can just invest regularly (manual regular investment plans) though it is a bit of hassle.

It would actually be nice to allow Malaysian and Singaporeans to use their respective retirement funds on low-cost, well-diversified ETFs or index funds for long term holdings for retirement purposes. The main reason this is currently not allowed would be regulation issues, since MAS in SG or SC in Malaysia would not be responsible for funds invested via say NYSE Arca or even "riskier" UCITS.

Another possibility is to "prop up" the domestic currency and reduce funds outflow. This would be more of an issue in Malaysia than SG.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 4 2022, 11:56 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 6 2022, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 6 2022, 09:10 PM)
hi any IBKR user can answr me?

i bought 1 share of VWRA, but the commission there stated 4.00

my order match 112.50, but cost is 116.00

anyone can enlighten me?
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Screenshots would help.

Perhaps there is an exchange rebate. https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index...=1590&p=stocks2

I am not sure which exchange is your order routed.

Also, you seem to be using fixed pricing, consider switching to tiered for LSE. Your transaction cost will be cut be at least 50% for such small scale purchase.
SUSTOS
post Apr 7 2022, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(Toku @ Apr 7 2022, 03:54 PM)
That is too much diversification I am afraid. And the China sector is too low. Not good for long term. No one manage your money better than yourself.
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Diversification as in country, sector, industry, "themes" (for thematic funds), or asset types?

You can look at diversification from various perspectives, depending on your criteria. And there are index/indices available for each sector/country/industry/"themes"/asset types.

So what Bogleheads will do is to inspect the indices, make sure it is a good representation of the industry/sector/country/themes/assets, then purchase (an) index fund(s) which track(s) the index/indices.

Diversification of a specific country/sector/themes etc. is up to the index provider to decide. However, the overall mixture of different indices in a Boglehead's portfolio is up to the boglehead to decide. They can build their baskets of indices, or they just buy the global index funds, like MSCI ACWI funds etc.

If you build you own index fund portfolio in a different weightage from the MSCI ACWI index, for example, then you introduce tracking errors. You may outperform or underperform the index over time. So, pure Bogleheads would just buy a global fund/ETF which tracks a global index.

------------------------------------

As for your comments on the underweight of Chinese counters and "not good for long term". Not sure china sector is too low in which index. Perhaps you are referring to global indices.

In this case, a Bogleheads would not care. They just blindly follow the index.

You seem to think that Chinese counters will do well in the long run. This is known as "views" in finance. You are free to express your views, and that belongs to the regime of active investing. You can long Chinese equities, for instance, relative to a passive global index like the ACWI. That's perfectly fine. But Bogleheads won't do that, they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements. If the (global) index in question is underweight on Chinese exposure, they just follow.

-----------------------------------

"No one manage your money better than yourself."

Absolutely, because only you know what kind of risk you can take. Whenever someone else manage your money, his goal is not aligned with yours (he wants fees and commissions, the more the better), but you want higher returns with less risks, shopping for arbritrage opportunities. Principal-agent problems are at the very heart of modern finance, and hence counterparty risk arise all too often (especially due to promotion of riskier products like derivatives with high margins).

That's why an "ultra pure" Bogleheads would just buy all the counters in the index himself, which is very impractical, so the next best alternative is to look for index funds/passive ETFs to solve this problem. There are issues such as misalignment of interest between Blackrock fund managers and you, but that is the next best thing possible.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 7 2022, 05:18 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 7 2022, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Apr 7 2022, 07:36 PM)
You seem to think that Chinese counters will do well in the long run. This is known as "views" in finance. You are free to express your views, and that belongs to the regime of active investing. You can long Chinese equities, for instance, relative to a passive global index like the ACWI. That's perfectly fine. But Bogleheads won't do that, they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements. If the (global) index in question is underweight on Chinese exposure, they just follow.

bruce.gif

I think this is incorrect statement if you are referring to passive global index as " they have faith in the index providers' analysis and judgements" -- very false statement.
passive index fund don't make complicated analysis and judgements, they only hold asset based on weightage of the asset, how much of the asset priced, is based on the market investor trading it at what price -- which is more reflected as a collective fair value of all investors.
Being boglehead is nothing fancy, so purist or not purist doesn't really matter, whats matter is if the reason behind the boglehead investing sound or not. Ultimately, we are here to make money right?
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I refer to Bogleheads as having faith in index providers' analysis and judgements, not the ETFs/index funds themselves (maybe the fund managers have, but still they are bound by the fund's prospectus and other legal documents which govern the funds' operations).

So, the manager of the index funds just follow the index, and "Bogleheads" would buy the index. If you trace the money, it's Bogleheads who buy the index (and maybe some others who want a piece of the index in their portfolio). Why would someone buy a product if they don't have faith in it, right?

The complicated analysis and judgements are done by the the index providers, like S&P, FTSE, MSCI etc. They have "methodologies" to follow in choosing the index constituents.

E.g. this is MSCI's "methodologies": https://www.msci.com/index-methodology

Ya, nothing fancy. It's just a philosophy, there are different ways of investing out there. But since this thread is about Bogleheads in Malaysia, I presume we just stick to Bogleheads stuff here. I am not sure if active vs passive/Bogleheads discussions/debates are allowed in this "local chapter".

And yes, we are definitely here to make money. The only thing that differs is how to make money, i.e. the approach (whether the process involves too much costs etc.)

SUSTOS
post Apr 7 2022, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(naranjero @ Apr 7 2022, 10:32 PM)
Ah okay my bad for misunderstood you  doh.gif
Indeed a complicated analysis and judgement for the methodologies, I will only "guess" their methodology doesn't make a lot of difference, if not mistaken even the country GDP weighed global index vs standard one also not too far difference in performance?

Since the objective of everyone here is the same -- to have better investment, I guess it is no harm to share different view so we can make better judgement as well? What would be your view on different approach / active investing if you don't mind to share?
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It's ok. I misread people's message too biggrin.gif (and I am not really a people's person).

Academic research on active vs passive investing has been mixed, though evidences point to passive as the winner in the past few years, after adjusting for fees and costs.

I personally take a mixed approach, with the understanding that I will not be able to outperform the market. I plan to have active holdings which I use to express my views, supplemented with index funds which represent the overall market. For active, I must understand the companies which I invest in, their business models, market structures, etc. Then I invest in them.

For example, I personally don't like Google (Alphabet), Amazon and Meta's business models, and favour Apple's and Microsoft's, so I don't touch the former 3, only hold the other 2, AAPL and MSFT. I like JNJ, Roche and Novartis for their conservative balance sheets, compared to Pfizer, Merck and Astrazeneca etc. For individual positions, I pay close attentions to counters if they generally drop 20-30% from their recent peaks and decide if it's favourably to enter for long-term positions at that level. This is for the active part.

On the passive side, I need to buy the whole market, say S&P 500, in that case, I have no choice but to buy an S&P 500 index fund and have exposure to the whole market. I would buy the index when the discount is very large, say 30-50% drop in market (at least 2 historical annual standard deviations, i.e. >= 2 s.d., which is around 36% ish for the S&P 500).

So in short, I adopt a mixed model, passive supplemented with active views whenever the opportunity arises. So far, I only have individual stock holdings (26 holdings, last I count), not yet buying any index funds since it's nowhere near a 30-50% drop yet.

Note that this is for international portfolio, and I have not included bonds in the picture yet. For Malaysian portfolio, things are very different. Due to the significant alpha that PNB and EPF managers can generate on top of KLCI, a rational investor would overweigh EPF or PNB FP funds (when NAV is above 1) rather than gaining passive exposure via KLCI.

Hence, it is important to note that active/passive also depends on market efficiency. If the market is rigged by large funds like in Malaysia (hence inefficient), the index is not the most optimized way of earning returns. On the other hand, in a mature market like S&P 500, it's exteremely difficult for fund managers earn consistent alpha and to beat it.

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 8 2022, 12:18 AM
SUSTOS
post Apr 9 2022, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Apr 9 2022, 10:47 AM)
for irish domiciled ETFs, the normal trading hours follows British working hours time?
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Depends on where the Irish domiciled ETF is listed. If you buy it on LSE, then follow LSE trading hours. If listed on Deutsche Borse, then follow Deutsche borse trading hours.

If listed in Mexico, then follow Mexican Bolsa trading hours.

This is LSE trading hours: https://www.tradinghours.com/markets/lse/hours You can find other exchanges' trading hours too on the same website.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 9 2022, 01:37 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 12 2022, 12:51 PM

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SUSTOS
post Apr 19 2022, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(Yggdrasil @ Apr 19 2022, 01:42 PM)
I think it also depends on where is the entity established and who is the custodian i.e. where your securities are stored.
Mine is IBKR (UK) and not IBKR (US). Plan to move to IBKR (SG) if they allow in future.
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So IBKR (UK) means I am not subject to US estate tax? (I transferred in from Tradestation Global.)
SUSTOS
post May 13 2022, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ May 13 2022, 05:42 PM)
Proper passover ad

Moreover the holding wont change much as they already anchored long
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You should beware of Abel. The market finds him "too shy". He won't talk too much to the media. We don't know his investment style either.

Another issue is possible breakup of the various businesses under BRK once Buffett is not around if hedge/activist funds come in to "unlock value".

This post has been edited by TOS: May 13 2022, 07:32 PM
SUSTOS
post Jun 14 2022, 12:25 AM

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FT article

ETF Hub: Passive Investing

Passive investing has increased US stock volatility, study finds
Analysis raises fresh questions over widespread adoption of index-based investing

by Steve Johnson (YESTERDAY)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


A very recent paper, you guys can read it here: https://sites.insead.edu/facultyresearch/re...e.cfm?fid=68974 (Link provided by FT.)
SUSTOS
post Jun 22 2022, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(Paradigmata @ Jun 22 2022, 03:02 PM)
The thing bothers me is oversea platform like IBKR is locked to one person access.

Say I, msian, suddenly accident, memory loss, turned vege or passed away, the fund is locked away.

Unless write down username, password.. Pass it on family member to keep, but high potential will kena songlap by own family member even when own self still alive
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You can open a joint account with IBKR.

Too bad your family members are like that. sweat.gif
SUSTOS
post Jul 27 2022, 06:57 PM

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FT Opinion: Serious Money

Why do we still bother with active funds?
‘Manager vs Machine’ report finds that passive funds have fared better in choppy markets

by Claer Barrett (7 HOURS AGO)


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

SUSTOS
post Mar 28 2023, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 28 2023, 11:03 PM)
00% VAGU Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond ETF USD Hgd Acc. (increase to 10% by year 2040 or so)
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Is there any specific reason you look for the USD-hedged Global Aggregate ETF instead of just buying the US Aggregate Bond ETF?
SUSTOS
post Mar 29 2023, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 29 2023, 12:23 AM)
I believe the common choice is AGGU/AGGG to replace BND/BNDW? My reasoning to VAGU is mostly, in the following order:

1. Ireland domiciled witholding tax benefits.
2. Vanguard is likely to lower their fee automatically in the long run as the AUM grow. This is historically true but now debatable with the passing of John Bogle.
3. Global instead of US only for diversification - the same reason I buy VWRA.
4. I picked USD-hedged version mostly for the however little effect is has on the USD-SGD-MYR relationship and the status of USD - happy to be corrected on this, but it's not like I would ever consider VAGP and AFAIK there isn't an unhedged version of vanguard aggregate bond.
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Your points make sense. Reasonings are clear as well.

A few things to be mindful though:

1. The actual bond holdings of the Aggregate funds (be they US/Global) are very different from the index. Sometimes you see Chinese/Japanese government bonds at the top 10/10% holdings in the fund sheets while in some other cases the top 10/10% holdings may be US corporate + treasuries. Most bond ETFs use the "stratified sampling" methodology where only a portion of the bonds universe are sampled and selectively represented by the fund. hence, the ETF exposure can be wildly different from what the index really represents. You are advised to read the annual report/interim report of the ETF to have a full look of the entire fund's bond holdings before you invest in it.

2. Hedging currencies involved the use of FX swaps/forwards which are derivatives. As with all derivative contracts, there is implicit leverage (and implicit lending/borrowing for swaps). Most likely, the ETF's bond holdings will be used as a collateral for those swaps/forwards positions. In extreme events, those collateral positions may give you trouble (think of UK pension fund's LDI crisis). And from my derivative class lesson, hedging currencies with swaps/forwards are usually costly in the sense that the market will move against you when you enter into such contracts. (Technically, we say the uncovered interest rate parity does not hold and the counterparty investment banks tend to make a profit with a Sharpe ratio of about 0.5.)

So if possible, use natural hedging (invest in the share class whose currency you are comfortable with) or choose the unhedged share class of the ETF. Try to keep the underlying as simple/as close to just the bonds itself without all those unnecessary derivative positions.
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post Mar 29 2023, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(Hoshiyuu @ Mar 29 2023, 09:39 PM)
Appreciate the in-depth advice!Will definitely keep both of your point in mind. Hopefully by the time I start allocating into bonds, a more suitable ETF would've been made available so I don't need to worry about either point...
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It's impossible to not worry about "stratified sampling". The reason is simple, stocks have indefinite lifetime (barring closure/bankruptcy). Bonds (except unconditional perpetuals) will mature some time in the future. So, the ETF/index provider will have to "rebalance" the index constituents by buying new bonds to replace those that have matured. And hence the issue: which one to buy under the "stratified sampling" strategy?

--------------------

Besides the issues mentioned in my post earlier, there is another conflict of interest present when using the stratified sampling strategy. Fund managers tend to choose bonds/stocks that can be lent to other investors to be sold short in order to earn extra return for the fund. So sometimes, the sampling becomes "biased" in the sense that securities which are less liquid/cannot be sold short easily will be underweighted in the resultant "sampled" portfolio of the ETF in question.

Just something to be mindful of.

This post has been edited by TOS: Mar 30 2023, 08:55 PM
SUSTOS
post Apr 11 2023, 09:27 AM

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WSJ MARKETS: STOCKS

Stock Pickers Failed to Take Part in First-Quarter Rally
Bearish positioning, less exposure to big tech stocks hurt active fund managers

https://www.wsj.com/articles/stock-pickers-...share_permalink

(Cross-posted with USA Stock Discussion thread)

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