Dear all,

Link to v1:
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1602849

Lawyer's Corner is a one-stop centre on all things legal. Pose your legal questions here and I'll endeavour to reply to you soonest possible with some advice. Questions on any topics are welcomed - procedure on sale and purchase of property, loan documentation, tenancy, etc. Any other queries on other aspects and areas of the law are also welcomed.

Here are a few links for those who want to find out more about lawyers practising in West Malaysia as a member of the Malaysian Bar. It is important that you know that the lawyer who is handling your matter is fit and properly admitted as an Advocate & Solicitor of the High Court of Malaya and possesses a valid Practising Certificate for the year 2011.



Legal fees calculator - To calculate legal fees for SPA (and stamp duty on MOT/DOA):



To download a copy of the Solicitors' Remuneration Order 2005 - which details the scaled fees for SPA, loan documentation and tenancy approved by the Bar Council for lawyers to charge. This is very important so that you know how much your lawyer can bill you for such matters:
 SRO_2005.pdf ( 71.22k ) Number of downloads: 1311



If you want to know how to file an official complaint against an Advocate & Solicitor with the Disciplinary Board, go here :
http://www.asdb.org.my/procedures.html

Some simple and basic rules and regulations of this thread:
1. Please do not PM me for any legal advice, I do not give out any advice via PM. Please post your legal query at this thread so that everyone can benefit from an answer.

2. Please do not ask for any recommendations for law firms or lawyers here.

3. Please do not advertise, promote or solicit any legal services here. This is not a place for such matters.

4. Please do not ask any questions nor talk about discounts here. Discounts are illegal and prohibited by the Bar Council.

Cheers.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 6 2011, 11:32 PM

How To Prepare A POWERFUL Official Complaint Against A Lawyer

It is not easy to get a lawyer punished for negligence/misconduct. That’s the truth and to be honest, it is not that the complaint by the client has no merits. It is because the complaint was not filed properly and/or the Complainant (you) did not prepare yourself before going into battle against the lawyer in your bid for justice. That is why in this topic I will focus on guiding you to make a POWERFUL official complaint against a lawyer.

Introduction

A lot of people have the misconception that they can scare a lawyer by threatening to complain to Bar Council (BC). No lawyer will take such a threat seriously. Why? Because although the BC has an Intervention Dept, it has better things to worry about rather than seriously look into disciplinary issues. More often than not, the Intervention Dept would assist in cases where the law firm has been dissolved or lawyer struck off the rolls (disbarred). Such assistance would be to re-assign the file to another law firm to be completed.

It is the Advocate & Solicitor Disciplinary Board which has the power to hear and punish lawyers in relation to complaints by disgruntled clients. The Bar is self-regulatory, i.e. disciplinary proceedings are heard internally. This is also a stumbling block for Complainants – it’s bad enough to face a lawyer, but to face a panel made up of lawyers could be a really daunting and intimidating experience.

That is why planning and preparation is key in order for you be ready to file a POWERFUL complaint. Let’s get started.

1. IDENTIFY AND NARROW DOWN THE STRONG GROUNDS OF THE COMPLAINT AGAINST THE LAWYER.

This where you separate the wheat from the chaff, as the saying goes. Don’t waste your time lodging complaints for petty issues like “never pick up phone calls, never return calls, never send e-mail status update, staff so rude, staff don’t want to entertain my calls, never give me Photostat SPA.” Those are what the ASDB deem to be frivolous complaints which will be dismissed summarily without it even fixed for hearing. Only serious acts of negligence ought to be reported, such as the follows:
a) Sloppy, lacklustre and negligent work resulting in inordinate and delay in completion of transaction or abortion/cancellation of transaction;
b) Sloppy, lacklustre and negligent work resulting in inordinate and delay in completion of transaction, thus resulting in penalty by relevant authorities or parties (land office//LHDN);
c) Sloppy, lacklustre and negligent work resulting in inordinate and delay, thus resulting in late penalty interest (LPI) by developer or vendor;
d) Sloppy, lacklustre and negligent work resulting in inordinate and delay, thus resulting in Complainant to suffer a loss which can be quantified (eg loss of prospective subsequent sale of property);
e) Misuse or misappropriation of funds (eg stakeholder monies, balance purchase price);
f) Physical or verbal assault upon Complainant;
g) Acts or omissions (failure to act) which are totally against the best interest of the Complainant; and
h) Conflict of interest situations (eg collecting full scaled fees from both Vendor and Purchaser).

The above list is not exhaustive and are merely examples of the common cases. It would be better if the acts or omissions complained of resulted in some form of loss which can be quantified or calculated.

Losses as such mental distress, trauma, anger, frustration, lack/loss of sleep are hard to be substantiated unless supported by medical reports. As such, if the only loss you claim is for ‘mental loss’, make sure that it is/was serious enough until you had to seek psychiatric treatment. Otherwise, do not waste your time to lodge a complaint.

2. COLLECT DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OF THE LAWYER’S ACTS OR OMISSIONS TO SHOW THAT HE WAS NEGLIGENT

This is a very important step which many Complainants fail to do, thus leading to their complaints being dismissed. Here’s how to avoid such unfortunate situation:
a) If you had to pay LPI for a delay which you are sure is the lawyer’s fault, compile and collect whatever documents you have first;
b) If the lawyer puts the blame on the bank/other party/developer/other party’s lawyer – ask your lawyer to provide you with a COMPLETE CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS (‘Chrono’) from the start until the end.

• VERY IMPORTANT: Make this request in writing – either by email or by letter given by hand and acknowledged with the law firm’s stamp and dated. Give the lawyer five (5) working days to hand it over to you, either by email/fax or self-collection. Don’t let them post it to you as it will take ages, or even never reach.

• VERY IMPORTANT: At this stage, do not indicate or threaten the lawyer that you will sue or file a complaint. Just act as if you are concerned with the delay, and play along. If the lawyer blames the bank, just say that you might want to raise it with the bank manager. If the vendor is blamed, say that you are considering claiming indemnity from the vendor. NEVER let the lawyer have a clue that you are going after him. Otherwise, his guard will go up and he will do whatever necessary to avoid such a pitfall, even to the extent of faking/manufacturing false evidence which you may not know is false.

c) From the Chrono, look at the source of the delay. Remember, this is just what the lawyer is telling you, and may not be the whole truth. If you have any doubts with regard to any detail, ask him to provide you with a letter from the party involved duly acknowledged with the date (in layman’s term – chop received). Better still, ask for the complete set of correspondence. If cost is an issue, tell the lawyer that you will pay photocopying charges. Use same process as in para above.

d) Once you have all the documents, photopcopy another set and arrange them in order according to the Chrono. Include correspondence from your side as well, i.e emails/letters to and from the lawyer to you. Arrange and incorporate it together. You are now set for the next stage.

3. PREPARE YOUR OFFICIAL LETTER OF COMPLAINT TO THE ASDB

It is very important to know that you have to comply with the requirements set by the ASDB when preparing and submitting your letter of complaint.

Here’s the link to their website which states the requirements:
http://www.asdb.org.my/procedures.html

Basically, the information required are:
a) Typewritten letter of complaint that contains:-
i) Name of the Complainant (as in Identity Card/Passport)
ii) Full particulars of the complaint
iii) Signature of the Complainant
iv) Full address of the Complainant
v) Full name of the Advocate & Solicitor responsible for the subject matter of the complaint at the material time and the Firm he/she was practising at
vi) Name and address of the present solicitor acting for the Complainant in the complaint (if any)
b) A statutory declaration in support of the said complaint
c) The Complainant's identity card /passport number
d) Supporting documents
e) Fee for processing - non refundable,currently in the sum of RM100.00 by way of a cheque/postal order made payable to "BAR COUNCIL-DISCIPLINE FUND". Payment by cash can only be made directly to the Secretariat for which an official receipt must be asked for and obtained.

Now, you can prepare the letter of complaint yourself or you can engage a lawyer to do it for you. Remember one important thing – not all lawyers do cases of complaints against their peers. Look for a lawyer who has experience in doing so. Ask around from family and friends for recommendations. If they cannot recommend, surely they can ask their lawyer to recommend another lawyer who does such cases.

What are the type of cases in which you SHOULD appoint a lawyer to represent you?
a) If you complaint is a serious and complicated matter involving a lot of documents;
b) If you are of the opinion that the Respondent (the lawyer whom you are complaining against) is a tough nut who might intimidate or repress you during the hearing;
c) If your personality is such that you fear that you might not manage to get your case presented properly (eg introvert, timid, poor public speaking or presentation skills).

For other types of cases, I see no reason why you can’t represent yourself.

Here’s a sample of an actual POWERFUL letter of complaint to the ASDB. You can use this as a guideline. As you can see, the chronology is given very precisely and supported by photocopies of the relevant documents.

Sample Complaint.PDF
 Sample_Complaint_ASDB.pdf ( 307.7k ) Number of downloads: 374


4. WAIT FOR NEWS ON THE STATUS OF YOUR COMPLAINT FROM THE ASDB

After you have submitted your letter, it is a waiting game.


It may take months before the complaint is looked into. If you acted in person, you can call in once a month to find out the status. If you have a lawyer, get your lawyer to follow up. If you receive a copy of a letter addressed to the Respondent asking for an explanation, give yourself a pat on the back as you have crossed the first stage. This means that the ASDB considers that there are some merits in your complaint and is now asking for the Respondent to issue a reply. After that, you will be given a chance to rebut the Respondent’s Letter of Explanation. Then, it will be determined by the ASDB whether the complaint truly has merit to the extent of setting up a Disciplinary Committee (DC) to conduct a hearing into the matter.

If a DC is set up, give yourself another pat on the back as you have crossed another very important stage. Consider 60% of the battle won already.

• NOTE: The actual sample above went up to the stage of a DC being set up. At this stage, the Complainants filed a civil suit in the civil Courts seeking monetary compensation. This was a tactical move to turn the screw on the lawyer even more. Within a month, the Respondent directly called the Complainants (bypassed the Complainants’ lawyer) and directly paid them a certain amount of compensation to withdraw the complaint and civil suit.

If a DC is set up and a hearing date fixed, you can attend in person (together with your witnesses, if any) and if you have a lawyer, he will attend as well to address the DC. A DC panel is comprised of at least 3 persons, a chairperson who is an Advocate & Solicitor, and two other members who are not lawyers but who are professionals, eg accountants, architects, school headmasters, etc. These members are appointed to provide a layman’s perspective into the matter. More often than not, however, these members do not query much and merely follow what the Chairperson says.

You can opt to give a oral evidence or stand by what you have prepared in your Letter of Complaint. The Respondent (or the Respondent’s lawyer) will then cross-examine you. After that, if you have witnesses, they will give evidence. This is followed by cross-examination as well. Then the process is repeated with the Respondent and his witnesses, if any. You can cross-examine him, or use your Letter of Reply to answer him. To use your letter may be better if you act in person, as you may not know how to cross-examine him. The DC will then adjourn the matter and fix a decision.

The decision would be communicated by way of letter. It can dismiss the complaint, or find the Respondent liable for misconduct and impose a punishment where necessary – a reprimand, caution, fine, order for restitution, suspension or in the worst case – order for the Respondent to be struck off the Rolls (disbarred). A lawyer who has been struck off the rolls can no longer practise. His career as an Advocate & Solicitor would be over.

You can then either make a claim to the BC Compensation Fund, if you had suffered some monetary loss or in cases where there was misappropriation of monies. You can alternatively file a civil suit to recover damages from the Respondent directly. For a civil suit, kindly appoint a LITIGATION lawyer to do so on your behalf as it is not prudent to act in person for such matters.

That is all I can share. If you follow the steps from the start, you can have a POWERFUL complaint against your lawyer and if you play your cards right, the lawyer will back off and make an offer to compensate you without the hassle of going through a hearing or a Court trial. Remember that preparation and patience in collecting evidence is the key to ensure the success of your complaint.

I wish you all the best.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jul 17 2012, 01:36 PM

What to look for when appointing a lawyer for your SPA/Loan Documentation transaction

Appointing a lawyer is a serious matter and is something which one must plan for the long term. It is not different from choosing a doctor or tailor. The point is – you will be using this lawyer for other matters in the future, just like how one would tend to go to the same clinic or tailor. That is how the service industry is. However, those who follow this forum would notice that there are many who encounter problems with lawyers and this leads to many problems, including delays (thus causing late penalty interest, loss of prospective income through rentals) and to the extreme – abortion of the SPA.

The following are a few pointers which I can share in order to guide you better:

1. Always FIRST ask for recommendations from family members and close friends

Do you notice that some lawyers act for two generations of a family? He was the father’s lawyer and now act in matters involving the son as well. However, not everyone is as lucky to encounter such a lawyer who can provide continuous good service. Having said so, the FIRST place to get information is from family and friends. Why? Because those folks have personal experience with the said lawyer AND would not have any vested interest for the recommendation. If your parents cannot recommend one, ask your uncle and aunts. Ask your elder siblings or cousins. Ask your closest friends whose advice you can trust. Surely you would hit the mark.

If you still hit a wall, ask from your property agent (if any) or mortgage consultant. They would surely have more than one recommendation for you. More often than not, these individuals MAY be given a referral fee by the lawyer. That is why unlike family and friends, they MAY have vested interests in the recommendation. Having said so, an experienced real estate agent or mortgage consultant would have collaborated with their respective law firm – as such, it would still be a viable option to be considered.


2. Do your research on the lawyer and law firm BEFORE you confirm the appointment

Do not decide merely on the recommendation. If it is through a party who has a vested interest in the referral, it would be wise to find out more about the firm. Don’t take it for granted! Many folks seem to think the following:

- “It’s just a simple SPA transaction. What’s the big deal”
- “It’s just standard. All SPA lawyers are the same”

The above simple-minded attitude is what lands clients in trouble as it always appear simple, until there is a problem. That is when the experience, capability and aptitude of the lawyer or law firm comes into the picture.

A few simple ways to do research on the lawyer or law firm:
- go to the Malaysian Bar website and search
http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/find_a_lawyer.html
http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/find_a_law_firm.html

You can gather some basic info there. Most importantly, names which are listed there are confirmed to possess a valid Practising Certificate (license) to act on your behalf.

- Go to the firm’s website. Try to gather information as to the history, track record and experience of the lawyers in the firm.

- Request for a Company/Corporate Profile to get more information if there is no website or if the website does not contain much information. A reputable and respected firm will always be more than willing to e-mail you their Company/Corporate Profile.

3. Ask for a Quotation/Invoice/Note of Charges BEFORE you confirm the appointment.

Having done your research and being satisfied with the law firm, do not put pen to paper and sign anything yet. Always ask for a DETAILED and COMPLETE Invoice/Note of Charges for services to be rendered by the firm. Do not accept basic or general quotes. Do not settle for a lawyer or clerk telling you, “roughly RMxxxx ” on the phone.

A respectable and reputable firm will always be more than willing to spend some time to prepare it for you, even though there is the risk of you taking it and ‘shopping’ around for other better offers. That is the risk they bear in the service industry. If they are good enough and if their quotation is reasonable and honest, the client will not hesitate to appoint them. So should you. If you have any queries, ASK the law firm for explanation. If they are honest, they will explain and detail it to you. They can also undertake to provide receipts to substantiate their claim.

If they are dismissive, rude or unaccommodating to your requests, just walk away and get another quote. In the Klang Valley, there are approximately 2,000 legal firms and more than half are involved in conveyance of property. As such, there is no shortage of firms for you to approach.

Please note that legal fees for conveyance of property is fixed - for SPA and loan documentation. Please refer to the Solicitors’ Remuneration Order 2005 (SRO 2005). That is the definitive guide. Even stamp duty and service tax is fixed. The only one which should differ between firms are the disbursements (expenses). Be wary of quotes where the disbursements are marked up significantly.


4. Cheap/low legal fees may not necessarily equate to good service.

When comparing quotes for fees, most people would go for the lowest price. This is not a surprise. It is a simple rule of economics. It is the reason why more people shop at Tesco and not at Cold Storage. However, just like some of the products on offer at those outlets, we can’t say that the quality is the same for both, can we? Although discounts are prohibited by the Bar Council, it is common knowledge that lawyers still give discounts. Do not be tempted by huge discounts given by certain law firms, as it MAY be due to one of the following reasons:

- the law firm is desperate for clients and are slashing prices in a bid to get more clients. Simple question – would a law firm with a reputable clientele and good service record be desperate for clients to the extent of slashing fees? You be the judge.

- the law firm is HUGE and works on the premises of economics of scale – i.e. huge workloads of files for a huge number of clerks thus collecting files and fees in bulk. Now, there is nothing wrong in appointing a big firm, as they didn’t become big overnight. They must’ve done something right. However, one complaint against big firms is that their clerks are assigned with too many files. Secondly, high turnover of staff. Although a SPA may take 3-4 months to complete, once a staff resigns, files would be reallocated to another staff and this would cause a delay.

In worst cases, the files would not be allocated fast enough and would be left idle until the clients fume in anger at the delay and lack of attention. If the firm has a good track record and is recommended, then go for it. One major advantage of big firms is that they are more organised and have machinery which can move faster than an average-sized firm, i.e. designated departments/staff for photocopying, drafting, liasing with banks/land office, despatch clerks. All these are important and ensures that files are processed and closed within time.

- the law firm is SMALL and does not require high overheads, thus allowing them to slash prices. Now, there is nothing wrong to appoint a small firm. Perhaps they are still new and yet to expand. That does not mean that the firm is unreliable. However, your background research would be handy. Does the firm have enough staff (or any staff at all)? Would the lawyer give his personal attention to the file? All these reassurances are important if it is a small firm. One major factor of having a small firm to handle your matter is the PERSONAL TOUCH. Imagine the whole firm knowing exactly who you are and what you file is about. You can’t get that with a big firm. It would (normally) be easier to obtain status updates of the file from either the clerk or the lawyer (or even the lawyer-cum-clerk, if it is truly a one-man show). Some clients are just in it for the personal touch and service.

Remember, a lawyer worth his salt would never undercharge his client just to seal the deal. If he is confident that he can perform to the level expected by the client, he would command that amount of fees to be paid. If you are confident in the lawyer’s capabilities, you would surely not hesitate to pay fees where fees are due. Of course, not everyone is like that. Some just like it cheap, irrespective of any other factors. At the end of the day, it is your personal preference as to what you want, and how much you are willing to pay for it.


5. Know the clerk AND lawyer in charge of your file.

This is very important. Don’t accept documents sent to your home/office by a despatch clerk for your signature (unless you have no other choice). Try to attend at the lawyer’s office. See the surroundings. Ask to see the lawyer in charge. If it is a big firm, perhaps only a clerk would be appointed at first. See that clerk. Get a name and get his/her direct line. If there is a lawyer who is personally handling your case, ask for a name card. If it is a partner/sole proprietor, politely ask for his/her handphone number. Of course, do not abuse the information. Incessant and calls at the wrong hours ought not be done. There must be some discretion and reasonableness on the part of the client as well.

If you follow all the above advice, I am sure that your conveyancing transaction would be a good experience, barring any unforeseen circumstances of course. Nothing beats having a good lawyer whom you can trust and have a good night’s sleep, knowing that your file is moving and that things are in the good hands of your appointed counsel. Do not be complacent and take things lightly when appointing a lawyer. A bit of research and hindsight will save you a lot of trouble in the future. After this, you can appoint this same lawyer for your other matters in the future as well. Everybody needs a lawyer whom one can trust in the long term.

I wish you all the best in finding yours.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jun 30 2012, 09:32 PM

Reserved

Reserved

This post has been edited by dariofoo: May 14 2012, 07:12 PM

Dario, imho there is too much focus on legal fees for SPA and not much info on legal fees for loans. Will be good if this aspect is highlighted so that newbies are aware that when they buy prop and if they take a bank loan (zero entry cost) they have to consider legal fees for the loan which is a % of the loan taken. All these adds up to those xtras they need to be aware of when buying 1st prop.

Also, more importantly, what happens when there is dispute with the lawyers. Tips on dos and donts when dealing with lawyers.

I can start off by giving one advice: if you are hiring a lawyer, be prudent and call up the bar council to check if the lawyer has been issued a warning or fine in the past before. Simple enquiries will save you loads of hassle in the future.

Cheers.

Yes, I do plan to put up draft note of charges for loan doc as well. Good point on zero entry cost cases - legal fees are factored in the loan itself. Lawyer sends quotation direct to bank and bank puts the total figure in the letter of offer. Newbie buyer has no clue whether he is overcharged or not.

Thanks for the input

Yes perhaps I can expand the link to the A&S Discip Board and share some tips on how to prepare for an official complaint. Good idea.

Dos and donts when dealing with lawyers? Lol. I wouldn't dare!


Have you tried it,bro? As in calling up BC direct to find out a lawyer's discip record?

What I know is that if you want to get some info on a particular lawyer [for example his BC number, his official address, etc], you need to pay some search fees. I doubt if a lawyer's disciplinary record can be obtained through a phone call to BC, but do feel free to prove me wrong if you have tried it.

I have included a link where one can check whether one's lawyer has been found guilty in disciplinary proceedings ("hall of shame"). But for that, one would have to read through it manually.

Thanks for the input

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 7 2011, 01:10 AM

Why is there a necessary to pay for the CKHT2 (income tax) form to the lawyer when it is just simple fill up form ?

Must the seller and buyer pay different fees for this form ?

Is it easy to sue seller if seller sell to many buyers ? (assume no caveat lodged)



This post has been edited by jalsrix: Dec 7 2011, 09:32 AM

Bro, gratz on V2

yes i wish to seek answer on how complicated will it be to seller to fill-up and submit the CKHT2 for RPGT as i do understand lawyers charge between RM 200 to RM 400 excluding incidental expenses

There's no necessity for anything when it comes to SPA. You can act on your own at any time. You can always opt to submit it yourself.

Vendor pays RM300/pax. Purchaser pays RM200/pax.

Sue for return of deposit paid - of course. Sue for specific performance to enforce the SPA and compel vendor to sell to you - you need to be the first party who entered into the SPA with the vendor. The subsequent purported SPAs executed with other purchasers are void and is of no effect as the vendor cannot execute a second SPA to assign his rights when he had already done so in the first SPA.

How complicated is very subjective. What may be complicated for one person may not be complicated for another. But as I had stated in the above reply, you have the right to inform the lawyer that you want to submit it on your own. I'm sure there would be no objection from the lawyer.

Dario, you are right in that search fees are required. ANd you are also right in that their disciplinary record is not available for all to see, save for statutorily mandated notices of fines and penalities. My experience is from the PoV of a member of the bar. May be different.

However, the Bar would not have issues with complying with requests to search through public records on your behalf. For example, if you have difficulty navigating the website due to language difficulties, they would assist.

Wow, V2 already, Congrats! Thank you and others who help answer some of my question last time. : )

1. If we submit income tax form ourselves, do we still need to pay rm 300/200 to the govt ? Or is it completely free ?

2. Who is going to pay for the legal fee to sue if buyer wins the case ? The seller or buyer ?

Dear Dario, I got a question about stamp duty, because I'm first house purchaser, I suppose to have 50% discount on stamp duty right? but lawyer insist me to pay full amount before discount to her so that she only go apply for the 50% off to me, she said not everyone can successfully apply for 50% discount....so I wan ask you is that true? I need to pay her the full amount before I get the discount?

Nonsense! You only pay stamp duty when the valuation come back from govt.



This post has been edited by jalsrix: Dec 7 2011, 11:16 PM

this is correct. the lawyer should be using the STAMPS system, meaning electronic assessment, before you pay any money to anyone. the lawyer is telling you nonsense.

http://www.hasil.gov.my/goindex.php?kump=2...1&unit=7&sequ=1

1. The RM200/300 goes to the lawyer as fees, not to the govt.
2. Seller.

Means I only have to pay the lawyer 50% of the stamp duty right?

Hi Dario, thanks for the clear explanation. But, y u called me 'boss' r? I am not.

Ok, back to the topic.

I hv told the lawyer i will bring the case to court and the owner was threatened and considering to change her mind.

However, i did not hear anything from the lawyer since then.

I would like to share with you some of my SPA lawyer's problems:


1) According to the SPA, the Completion Date (3+1 mths) shall start when the 2nd MOT is in favor of me.

On 22/09/11, the SPA lawyer advised that the Completion Date & Extended Completion Date shall fall on 12/12/2011 and 12/01/2012 respectively.
I refered to the email & sent her email to ask her for the evidence for the 2nd MOT, she NEVER reply. And she didnt send the original letter to my loan solicitor!



2) On 21/10/2011, the SPA lawyer emailed to me and said:



I was pissed-off and sent her email to ask her y she advised 2 different Completion Dates & Extended Completion Dates, AGAIN, SHE NEVER REPLY!! and She dares not to send out the original letter to my loan solicitor.


3) On 1 December 2011, the SPA lawyer said in her email that (fyi, same date at night, the SPA lawyer called me to tell me about the Owner's intention to cancel the deal):



My loan solicitor wrote to them officially to ask for all the B&W from her, she has not reply. So my Completion Date is not started yet since my loan solicitor has not received any B&W from the SPA lawyer.


Angel Dario , pls give me some advices. The SPA lawyer is playing all the tricks and didnt care much about her Client.

May i know:
1) Is email an valid evidence for me to lodge a complaint to the Bar Council? (She always CONFIRM many things in the emails but never send over the original cover letters, even my loan solicitor requested for it)
2) My fren asked me to request for a Performance Monitoring from the Bar Council. Does it work?
3) I doubt she has submitted the 2nd MOT for adjudication. Is there any way to check without going thru her?
4) How can she simply advised the Completion Date? and changed the Date at her wish? What can i do?
5) Pls give me some advices on dealing with Lawyer like this. Even my loan solicitor cant stand the SPA lawyer oledi.


Pls

Thanks

This post has been edited by irise.ufall: Dec 7 2011, 07:10 PM

If it is the adjudicated sum by the stamp office, yes. Wait for them to revert with the adjudicated sum first. Usually they will take about 5 days upon submission for adjudication process.

This post has been edited by property4all: Dec 7 2011, 11:00 PM

iriseyoufall:


Angel Dario???

1. Yes, it is good enough. E-mails can be used as evidence in Court also.
2. Never heard of it before. Sorry.
3. Put in a letter in writing asking her for a detailed summary of your case based on her e-mails. The list of docs in your second quote seems to be part of a letter whereby the lawyer forwarded the said docs to your loan lawyer. Am I right? Send in the letter by hand at the office. If you want, you can cc it to Bar Council also [whether you send it out is a different story ]. Give her 48 hours to reply failing which you will lodge an official complaint with the A&S Discip Board. Surely that will shake her up a bit.

* see first page of this thread for a link to the website of the Board.

4. There must be a reason why she did so. Without the benefit of a crystal ball, I can't predict why. Sorry about that.
What can you do? Write that letter would be one thing - another thing is to seek advice from your loan lawyer. Surely they can hand over some copies of correspondence between your SPA lawyer and themselves. Gather more evidence. Get a clearer picture before you go further in this matter.

I will let the expert Dario answer with better explanation, since he's the real pro, but my understanding is:

1) yes, you can lodge complaints using email correspondence.

2) Not sure if got such thing also usually if you lodge a complaint, if they deem it's sufficiently disconcerting, eh will issue a notice to the lawyer to explain himself

3) never tried this before, but you can call up Hasil hotline to ask them if you can check. After all the instrument out to have your name and IC on it ( it is technically YOUR document).

4) SPA should provide Completion date? What does it say? It appears quite clear to me. Of course lawyer cannot simply change the completion date!

5) simple. Tulis surat to her, threaten to complain to Bar Council. 80% of the time they will be scared shetless. If really cannot, write in to Bar Council. That's the best you can do. Once you report Liao, remember if she ask you to pull the report and let her settle it, DON'T. Insist that she settle your matters first, baru you withdraw the report.

hallo dariofoo,

wanna ask something, notice of assessment is paid and submitted everything including the grant of probate, court order, original land title, quit rent & assessment, Memorandum of Transfer at Land Office for registration of transfer of 1/2 share in favour of lee fong moi.

when submitted to land office and did a land search the next day, it said there is 2 perserahan belum didaftarkan:

1. turun milik akibat kematian - grant probate
2. pindahmilik tanah
surat kebenaran 7723/2011


the land title used to be 2 names, i.e: lee fong moi & Low chui ming (deceased).

today went to did a land title search again, lee fong moi name is still under pemilikan dan alamat, but low chui ming is replaced by:

"lee fong moi sbg pemegang kuasa (probate) /executor 1, 1/2 bhgn, no. kp xxxxxxxxxxx, warganegara malaysia, (address of lee fong moi)"

there is some info such as "tanggungan dan endorsan-endorsan lain" which record the above perserahan registered on what day and what time.

so in this case, is the transfer already registered? but when ask them the new title, they said not register yet. confuse.....

Registered - yes. New title issued - not yet. Most likely that is what the scenario is in your case. The database has been updated but the fresh issue document of title has yet to be processed by the Land Office.

Hi Dariofoo, thanks for your quick reply.

So the memorandum of transfer is registered but new land title not yet issued. So their one day policy is no use, it has already been more than 1 week but new land title still not yet issued, just a bit confuse when ask them the new land title they said not yet register instead of not yet issued......

usually take how long to get the new land title if you dont mind me asking again? thanks.

Which Land Office?

hulu langat @ bangi

Thanks for clearing the doubt

Dear Dario,

Recently company bought a auction unit (commercial shop) and lawyer appointed. May I know who is responsible to find out latest assessment bill outstanding. Vendor's lawyer? Purchaser's lawyer? or Developer?.

Give it 2 weeks to be safe. There's no 3 working days guarantee like the Shah Alam land office.

Purchaser's lawyer

With respect, I have a different opinion. In practice, the SPA lawyer has to ensure that the stamp duty has been deposited with the lawyer as stakeholder (kept in client's account) before the MOT/DOA is sent for adjudication.

What happens if the notice is out and the purchaser has yet to deposit the stamp duty payable?

Of course, this is more towards prudent practice more than a rule of law.

Furthermore, if the purchaser is taking a loan and if the vendor's property is still encumbered, the financier's solicitors will request for a confirmation from the SPA lawyer that the estimated stamp duty payable has been deposited with the SPA lawyer. As such, even before first drawdown, the stamp duty must already be deposited with the SPA lawyer.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 8 2011, 03:33 PM

You must understand that the rebate is not automatic. You have to apply for it together when your MOT/DOA is submitted for adjudication. Once LHDN is satisfied that you fulfil the requirements, they will state the stamp duty payable and that sum will be 50% of the stamp duty payable under normal circumstances. There have been cases where applications have been rejected.

Now, two scenarios:

1) If the vendor's property is still encumbered.

Then the financier's solicitors will request for confirmation from your SPA lawyer whether you have deposited the estimated stamp duty payable with the SPA lawyer before first drawdown to redeem the vendor's loan can be issued. As such, you need to deposit it much earlier in your SPA lawyer's client account.

A prudent lawyer would collect in full, as there's no guarantee that the application for rebate has been approved.


2) if the vendor's property is not encumbered.

Then there is no need for the confirmation as the MOT/DOA can be directly sent to LHDN for adjudication. Once again, A prudent lawyer would collect in full, as there's no guarantee that the application for rebate has been approved.

If only 50% is collected and if the application is rejected, things would be at a standstill until the purchaser coughs up the balance 50% payable. A prudent lawyer can skip the hassle of that and merely pay up in full what has been collected from the client.

Having said so, there are lawyers who just collect 50% stamp duty from the client. It's just that your lawyer doesn't operate that way.

In a nutshell, do not have any adverse conclusion against your lawyer. He is just being prudent by demanding for the full sum to be deposited with him as stakeholder. It's not like he can play with the money. If the application for rebate has been approved, the lawyer can refund the money to you, and all will be ok,



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 8 2011, 03:54 PM

I purchase a terrace house lease hold in Kepong. Already sign SPA 6 months ago. the problem is Pejabat Dearah dan Tanah Gombak dont approve this application. the vendor is malay, the house confirm is not bumiputra lot. but there are cases that my neighbour waited for 1 year to settle. Now to speed things up we might need to fork out RM5k for kopi money. please advise.

Can try to appeal.

Kopi money?

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Dario, thanks for the clear explanation, wouldn't you mind to explain what is mean by "If the vendor's property is still encumbered or not"?

Encumbered means there is a charge/assignment in favour of the bank who granted the vendor a loan. If the property is encumbered, it is highly likely that there are monies still owing to the bank by the vendor. In such cases, there would be two drawdowns (release) of monies by your bank to the vendor:

1) 1st release - the vendor's bank to redeem (settle) the outstanding loan.
2) 2nd release - balance loan sum to vendor.

So, for 1st release, your bank must first be satisfied that the stamp duty has been deposited with your SPA lawyer.

Hi dariofoo,
In purchasing a sub-sale property, i understand that there are 3 type of fees as below, correct me if i'm wrong

i) Legal Fee:
From the 1st pg in V1 thread, i calculate the legal fee for $565k is $ 4,405.
Is this the legal fee for SnP ?
I also understand that there are many misc fees under legal fees e.g transportation fees, etc. Is the $ 4,405 inclusive of the misc fees ? I wud assume no.

ii) Stamp Duty
Using the calculator, the stamp duty for $565k is $10,950.
Is the above number also inclusive of legal fee stamp duty and loan agreement stamp duty ?

iii) Loan Agreement Legal Fees
How to calculate this ?
Is this for the loan agreement documents between me and the bank ?

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 9 2011, 03:21 PM

The new land title will be under only one registered owner (lee fong moi) or lee fong moi & lee fong moi sbg executor.......?

---

Added on December 9, 2011, 3:33 pmAny problem if it is under lee fong moi & lee fong moii sbg executor? Cannot just registered under lee fong moi as the only registered owner? Or this is the normal procedure?

Usually in such case, the new land title will be like that and would that have any effect in completing the SPA?



This post has been edited by Felixchui80: Dec 9 2011, 03:33 PM

1. Two names - same name, but in different capacity. One is in her capacity as the registered owner, and another in her capacity as the executor of the estate of the deceased owner of the other half-share
2. No problem
3. Cannot register with her in her capacity as single owner because she is holding the half-share as executor only.
4. It won't have any effect with the SPA,so don't worry.

1) Yes that's the base legal fees. There are also other legal fees like filing of CKHT, entry/withdrawal of caveat (if applicable) and consent. It does not include disbursements.

2) There's no such thing as legal fee stamp duty. This stamp duty for 10k is for the memorandum of transfer (MOT) or deed of assignment (DOA). It does not include stamp duty upon the loan doc.

3) 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing. Yes this is the doc between you and the bank.

Hi Dario,

I've signed the loan agreement recently but on the facilty agreement, the interest rate and monthly installment are not updated as agreed with my banker.

The person in charge of the signing asked me to sign and will make the amendment with the bank side later.

Thus, am I made a mistake here or it's all right as i have an email from the bank stating the final rate given?

Confused...

Can sign first and amend later. It's done all the time. Just make sure that you attend to put your initial for all the amendments as it indicates that you agree to it.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 10 2011, 10:00 PM

Hi.
I would like to ask whether the entry and withdrawal of private caveat is covered under the SPA or the loan agreement?
My loan solicitors said no need to enter private caveat as it is a master title. Is this correct?

Oh... Thanks...

If got individual title - then for both SPA and loan there would be entry and withdrawal of caveat, i.e. two caveats - one by you and one by the bank.

For master title, what your loan sol told you is correct.

Dario

I have a problem here as I don't know who to report - bank negara or lawyer association.

1. The lawyer told me the bank only gave the cheque to them on 4 dec.

2. The bank told me the lawyer only collected cheque on 4 dec.

Both sides are blaming each other.

But the interest was calculated from 28 nov as the amount disbursed.

Why should I pay 1 week interest when the money is not even disbursed to my seller or lawyer ?

The lawyer is part of the official panel of lawyers from the bank.


Both are irresponsible parties, who do I complain to ? bank negara or lawyer association ?

Get the correspondence to see who's at fault. Look at date of letter by bank and date of collection.

How much was the interest?

that is a difficult thing to do cause my lawyer didn't get official letter from bank.

This post has been edited by jalsrix: Dec 12 2011, 10:04 PM

Then how are you going to prove your case against the lawyer or the bank?

How much was the interest charged?

Although I do not have a crystal ball and do not know the true facts of the case, if both parties are putting the blame on each other on the issue of the cheque - I would actually be more inclined to believe the lawyer rather than the bank. Reasons?

1) It is the lawyer who would normally call the bank to chase after the cheque;
2) It is the bank who will always take their own sweet time to issue the cheque;
3) The lawyer would not want to delay collecting the cheque when it is ready as it would defeat the purpose of calling up the bank and chasing them to issue it.

The above is the general scenario in MAJORITY of cases, not all. Perhaps your case fell in the minority of cases?

Surely when the bank issued the cheque there would be a cover letter annexed to it,right? Or perhaps an advise slip?

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 12 2011, 11:37 PM

My lawyer didn't give me the cover letter or advice slip and they are very unfriendly/unhelpful.

Interest is not much but it is matter of ethics. Anyway, I try to get the cover letter from bank instead.

Thanks

May i know how to calculate the stamp duty for the loan doc ?

Thanks in advance dariofoo

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 13 2011, 11:11 AM

Hi Dario,
I got a question on heritage issue. My dad has passed away and left a property. We as daughter, had waived the ownership and passed it to my mom. If my mom planned to selling this property within 5 years, will she be imposed the RPGT?
If yes, is it flat rate of 5% gains tax?
Can you give an example on minimum exemption and the retention sum of 2% of the purchase price? I've tried to read the article but I can't fully understand the calculation. Let said the property bought at RM60K long long time ago and I presume it sold RM100K now.
Thanks in advanced.

I answered it in para (3) - 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing.

Ask for it in writing. Give them 48 hours to provide you with a copy, failing which you will file an official complaint with the A&S Discip Board.

The gain is calculated from price at time of disposal less price at time of acquisition.

The price at time of acquisition by initial owner (deceased) is not relevant.

Let's say now you dispose it at RM100K now. Perhaps it was transferred to her name as beneficiary 2 years ago on 13/12/2009. LHDN will assess the market price of the property at that date - 13/12/2009 (or thereabouts).

Let's assume that it was RM80K at 13/12/2009, so the gain is:

RM100K - RM80K = RM20K.

It is not nett gain at 5% of RM20K.

Acquisition price also includes cost of renovations, legal fees, agent fees, etc. Add that to acquisition price - perhaps RM5K

Final acq price = RM85K.

Disposal price also includes legal fees, agent fees, etc. So you deduct that from disposal price - perhaps RM8K.

Final disposal price = RM92K.

Nett gain = RM92K - RM85K = RM7K.

Taxable gain - 5% of RM7K = RM350.00

However, you would need to pay 2% of the purchase price upfront first. LHDN will refund the rebate to you later once they've processed your file.

* All receipts evidencing renovations, legal fees, agent fees - must be submitted.

* In the Form CKHT 1A (for vendor) - at the part where price of acquisition is required to be filled up - LEAVE IT BLANK. LHDN will fill it up with their assessed market price and they'll do the final math.

Hi dariofoo, got several questions here:

1.
what's the major diff between an individual and master title?
why have a master title and not go straight for individual title?
what are the concerns for buyers of houses under master title?

2.
are there any major difference between final and qualified title apart from the fact that qualified title does not allow partitions?

3.
why for individual title require open/closed charge while without require DOA and PA?

4.
mind sharing the difference between the four types of caveats. I'm very blur on it.

Thanks

now the lawyer said register lee fong moi as executor of the 1/2 share is the first part. now the second part is to register lee fong moi as the ONLY registered owner of the property therefore can transfer to purchaser and charge to bank. so can register her as the only owner or cannot one ah? confuse....land office never pick up phone one so cannot ask.....

now lee fong moi is registered owner of 1/2share and executor of another 1/2 share of then property, then can she transfer the other 1/2 share to her name so she can be the one and only registered owner?

does the law require she to be the one and only registered onwer in order to complete the SPA? or, the SPA can be completed even she is the registered owner of 1/2 share and executor of another 1/2 share?

is there any guidelines? have you came across such situation? usually what should the vendor do?

does she need to pay RPGT? the property bought in 1995 under lee fong moi and the deceased.

This post has been edited by Felixchui80: Dec 13 2011, 09:47 PM

Thanks dariofoo

I have few more questions as below,

i) Lets say i'm a purchaser and i have interest in a property. However the house is joint owned by a couple (wife n husband)
Yesterday when i signed the Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA), only the wife name is stated inside the LOA.
Is it ok or both names must be stated inside the LOA ?

ii) One of the verbal agreed terms is that the current owner wud leave 70% of the furnitures/renovations and electrical applicances.
Lets say during the SnP signing, it is stated inside the SnP, however the owner refuse to sign and argue that at that moment, he don not want to
handover the furniture. Is there anything that we can do ? I just sign the LOA.

iii) During the LOA signing, i have requested the agent to introduce a lawyer. The current owner is also interested in using the same lawyer as well
which means that we are using a common solicitor. In this case, the common solicitor is representing whose interest more ? The owner or me ?

Many thanks . More questions wud be coming as i just sign my LOA for my 1st house.

LAWYER'S CORNER WILL BE TAKING A BREAK

Sorry guys am off for an outstation trip now.

Shall be back tmr evening and shall endeavour to answer all outstanding queries by tmr night or friday.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Dec 14 2011, 12:05 PM

Hi, I want to ask whats the different if use bank lawyer and my own lawyer? Which 1 better?

Hi Dario:
regarding the 20% remission in stamp duty for loan document for islamic financing, I found out it does not apply to all islamic loans. I applied for Cimb full flexi islamic loan and my lawyer charge me full rates for the loan document stamp fees. when I queried the lawyer told me that IRD disllowed the 20% remission because my loan is of flexi type, even though it is islamic financing. Is that true? Anyone else has the same experience?

Secondly regarding the early redemption of islamic loan, what is ur experience like? do they operate like conventional loan whereby people just redeem the outstanding loan?

Hi,

Hopefully you guys can help me. My situation is I've signed a SPA to buy a subsale property. I've already signed the Letter of Offer from my Bank and now just waiting for the proper documentation to released the funds.

The owner just informed me that she has received the keys, VP letter and CCC from the developer (Sime Darby). I instructed my lawyer to start the process of releasing the funds, changing title etc.

Will the bank released the funds with just a CCC letter or do i need to wait for the CFO from the local council?

If bank can released the fund with just the CCC, is it advisable to take possession of the house without the CFO?

A new buyer here .. apologize for the ignorance.

Regards

Thanks Dario, your help is appreciated

Pls help me to review the attached lawyer quote
Property details,

Freehold
Individual title
Joint ownership at seller side (husband and wife)
Seller using different lawyer
Joint ownership at buyer side (me and girlfriend)
Buyer using different lawyer
Selling price: RM567k
Loan Amount: RM510k

S&P and loan lawyer is the same lawyer.

From the v1 thread and v2 thread, below is the info that i have gather.Correct me if i'm wrong

S&P
Misc fees of RM250
Can i nego for discount ?

Registration on MOT RM 500
Statuatory declaration RM 20
What is this and is this necessary ?

Loan Agreement
Stamp Duty on loan agreement RM 2,555 ?
My loan is RM 510,300. 0.5% from loan amount is RM 2,551.

Preparation of charge document RM 402.21
Registration Fee on Charge Document RM120.00
Registration Fee on Entry of Private Caveat RM340.00
Registration Fee on Withdrawal of Private Caveat RM80.00
Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Letter of Offer RM20.00
Purchase of Document RM100.00
What is this and is this necessary ?

Land Search RM 60
This is have been charged at S&P. Can i nego for waiver ?

Bankruptcy Search (RM12-00 per person)
I have to pay for seller bankruptcy search ?

Courier charges and Misc- Transport, phone calls, postage, fax, photocopies etc. RM 250
This is considered expensive since i'm using the same lawyer for S&P and loan agreement.

Any inputs and comments are most welcome

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 15 2011, 04:34 PM


Attached File(s)
 Bill_Loan____Title__1_.pdf ( 10.32k ) Number of downloads: 98
 Bill_P____Title__1_.pdf ( 32k ) Number of downloads: 78

dario

Is it better to sign S&P next year or this year for the buyer ? Since it is december already.

Will the lawyer tax be 5% or 6% next year ?

Will we still need to pay for ckht 2a next year ?

I am trying to save money ....

1. Master title is basically a huge title owned by the developer (or landowner who JVs with the dev) which has yet to be submitted for subdivision into indiv/strata title after the completion of the housing development. Sometimes it is also known as block title.

Indiv title is basically the one particular title which identifies the individual unit in a housing development. For high-rise, it is known as strata title, but basically it is an individual title.

Why Master Title and not straight? Well, for strata title, the dev can only apply for it once the high-rise has been completed. If normal indiv title (eg for a terrace-house project), some developers apply for subdivision early and offer indiv title as part of the package. Some don't, and wait til they reap the profits from the sale. Perhaps because it is expensive to subdivide, or perhaps they haven't settled their loan with their end-financier, hence the master title is still encumbered.

2. No major differences. No partitions or subdivision. The boundaries are also not final (like duh!).

3. Because if it is Master Title, the unit owner is not the registered proprietor of the master title. Hence, the bank can only create the DOA as security for the loan granted to the unit owner. The DOA basically denotes assignment of beneficial ownership of the unit to the bank. The sequence of the DOA goes on and on for every subsale, and the owner must keep the trail of DOAs all the way to show that beneficial ownership has been assigned to him properly.

If individual title, the unit owner is the registered proprietor. Hence, the unit owner can agree to charge the property in favour of the bank as security for the loan. The owner is the chargor and the bank is the chargee.

4. Four types of caveats:

a) Private Caveat (PC)

The most common type of caveat. Any tom,d*** and harry with a caveatable interest can lodge a PC upon a property. Once a PC is lodged, it restricts any dealings upon the property. Most common intent is to prevent transfer to another party. You have caveatable interest like when you put in 10% down payment when executing a SPA. A PC can last for max 6 years.

A PC can be easily removed by the registered proprietor. An application to remove is made, notice is given to the person who entered the caveat, and within 2 months, if no just cause is given why the caveat ought to remain, it is automatically removed. The registered prop can also sue that person for compensation.


b) Registrar's Caveat (RC)

This is a caveat which the registrar or land administrator can lodge upon the property. Effect is the same as PC, but it is more 'powerful' because it also restrains dealings which have been presented for registration but not yet registered. So, it can be back-dated to even stop dealings which have been presented. A PC cannot restrain a dealing which has been presented.

More often than not, RCs are applied for by the govt to restrain debtors who owe the govt from transferring their property and defeating the govt's claim against them.

I've also heard of landowners who are victims of fraud apply to lodge a RC to protect their interests while they pursue legal action against the fraudulent party. In that case, the transfer was presented for registration but not yet registered. If by way of PC, it cannot be prevented from being registered. However, the RC can do so. Thus, the alleged fraudulent transfer could not go through and would still be pending.

The 6 years limit does not apply to RCs. It lasts as long as the Registrar does not remove it - or until an application by the registered proprietor, or a Court order is issued to compel its removal.

c) Lien-holder's caveat.

In the old days, when banks didn't want to go through creating a charge over the property and when there were no lenghty facility/loan documentation, a person can deposit his original title (called an IDT) with the bank, who will in turn grant him a loan. The bank can then apply to lodge a lien-holder's caveat over the property to secure its interest. If the borrower defaults, the lien-holder can go for an order for sale. This type of caveat is, however, very hardly used these days.

d) Trust caveat.

Basically to protect the rights of trustees and beneficiaries of property given to them pursuant to a trust. Once again, it is hardly used due to one condition - it can only be removed with the consent of both trustees AND beneficiaries. That may be cumbersome, as it is not easy to gather everyone around just for that. As such, most beneficiaries would just lodge a private caveat over the property in the interim. It serves the same purpose, and they can just withdraw it on their own accord when they wish to, without the need to refer to the trustee.

Hope the above explanation helps.

Your lawyer is right. It must be transferred to her name as beneficiary, and only then can it be subsequently transferred to the buyer. Don't worry about stamp duty as it is RM10 only.

With regard to RPGT, yes she would still have to fill up the forms and submit it, but surely there would be no RPGT as the market price as at date of acquisition would be almost the same as at date of disposal - since it is a back-to-back MOT. But for formality sake, the forms have to be completed and submitted.

1. One name is ok. Surely the wife is signing on her husband's behalf and has his authority to do so. If two friends are owners, then perhaps it would be prudent to have both to sign.

2. Verbal promises is worth nothing as in the event of a dispute, it is your word against his word. So how do you prove your case? If you want to be prudent, get the owner to list out the items and get it annexed to the SPA.

3. The lawyer is supposed to act on your behalf. He is your lawyer. Common solicitor only refers to his role as assisting the vendor to redeem the loan, prepare discharge docs, and filing CKHT forms. At all times, he must act in your best interest.

Surely you trust the capabilities of your own lawyer better than another lawyer right? Given the choice whether to retain your SPA lawyer to also do the loan doc, or take bank panel lawyer, it would be better to stick to the same lawyer as it usually makes it faster - it eliminates a trail of correspondence. However, i used the word "usually" as there could be a delay if the lawyer is not adequately experienced in handling the loan docs. So it could backfire.

Choice of lawyer is very personal. Depends on the individual. If you're confident that your lawyer can do the job, then by all means go ahead.

Never heard of that. Let me check and get back to you.



Calculation of the sum in cases of early settlement would be a question best answered by an experienced banker.

If I'm not mistaken, the CCC replaces the need for a CFO. With the CCC, the owner can move into the unit already. I think this came into place sometime in 2007 to eliminate the need for CFO, which was a cumbersome process, full of red tape. However, if i'm not mistaken, it only applies to new properties which are not larger than 2 stories.

If your property fits the description, then the bank ought to be satisfied with proof of a copy of the CCC in order to release the balance loan sum.

Milo_O:


Disbursements you can always nego for discount. No prohibition there.

For stamp duty upon loan, it is always rounded up to next thousand - so your loan is deemed to be RM511K - so the sum is correct.

Purchase of documents from bank - the bank charges for copies of the loan doc. Price ranges from RM100-RM150.

Land search - RM30/search.

Bankruptcy search - if same lawyer for SPA and loan, it needs to be done once only. The onus is upon you to search whether the seller is bankrupt, not the seller, so you have to pay for it.

Total disbursements for both SPA and loan is RM500. If you've read the earlier posts you'll have a rough idea as to whether it is too much and what you may do.

There's no difference, from the way I see it. It's not like a car where some people are hesitant to buy at the end of the year as it will be referred to by the year of purchase/registration, and not the month.

Any superstitious beliefs?

There has been no announcement as to change of service tax to date, so I guess it would still be 6%.

For CKHT forms - please note that filing of forms is free - you're paying legal fees for the lawyer to prepare and file it. Please refer to SRO 2005 which you can download at the first page. The legal fees has not changed since then so I doubt if the coming year will make any difference.

Thanks Dario. I have further clarifications.
Apologize if u may have answer this but i cant seem to digest the answer.

SPA

Registration on MOT RM 500
Statuatory declaration RM 20
What is this and is this necessary ?

Loan Agreement
Preparation of charge document RM 402.21
Registration Fee on Charge Document RM120.00
Registration Fee on Entry of Private Caveat RM340.00
Registration Fee on Withdrawal of Private Caveat RM80.00
Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Letter of Offer RM20.00
Purchase of Document RM100.00
What is this and is this necessary ?

Public Bank Charge for copies of the loan document = RM200.

Price ranges from RM100-RM200.

The RM20 for SD is affirmation fees paid to the Commissioner for Oaths to attest your signature upon the SD. The SD prepared is the one for Owner Occupancy as required by the bank.

The RM100 is for payment to the bank for pre-printed loan documentation. The loan agreement, charge annexure, and other security documents must be bought from the bank. Standard practice.

Cheers.

Latest update: Hong Leong charges RM250.00 for loan documentation effective 1st Dec 2011. Docs are in soft copy to be printed by law firm. That means that the charges are basically for them to put their precious signature upon the loan documentation. Must be super duper expensive and precious ink which they are using!

Not only that, there's a RM50 charge for execution of discharge of charge OR deed of RnR. That means when you later sell of the house you have to bear this cost as well.

So now we can say that it ranges from RM100-RM250.00