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 Lawyer's Corner v2, One-stop centre for any legal queries

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Milo_O
post Dec 9 2011, 02:04 PM

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Hi dariofoo,
In purchasing a sub-sale property, i understand that there are 3 type of fees as below, correct me if i'm wrong

i) Legal Fee:
From the 1st pg in V1 thread, i calculate the legal fee for $565k is $ 4,405.
Is this the legal fee for SnP ?
I also understand that there are many misc fees under legal fees e.g transportation fees, etc. Is the $ 4,405 inclusive of the misc fees ? I wud assume no.

ii) Stamp Duty
Using the calculator, the stamp duty for $565k is $10,950.
Is the above number also inclusive of legal fee stamp duty and loan agreement stamp duty ?

iii) Loan Agreement Legal Fees
How to calculate this ?
Is this for the loan agreement documents between me and the bank ?

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 9 2011, 03:21 PM
Milo_O
post Dec 13 2011, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 9 2011, 06:43 PM)
1) Yes that's the base legal fees. There are also other legal fees like filing of CKHT, entry/withdrawal of caveat (if applicable) and consent. It does not include disbursements.

2) There's no such thing as legal fee stamp duty. This stamp duty for 10k is for the memorandum of transfer (MOT) or deed of assignment (DOA). It does not include stamp duty upon the loan doc.

3) 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing. Yes this is the doc between you and the bank.

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May i know how to calculate the stamp duty for the loan doc ?

Thanks in advance dariofoo rclxms.gif notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 13 2011, 11:11 AM
Milo_O
post Dec 14 2011, 08:23 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 13 2011, 12:49 PM)
I answered it in para (3) - 0.5% of loan sum. Flat rate. 20% less if Islamic financing.

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Thanks dariofoo notworthy.gif

I have few more questions as below,

i) Lets say i'm a purchaser and i have interest in a property. However the house is joint owned by a couple (wife n husband)
Yesterday when i signed the Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA), only the wife name is stated inside the LOA.
Is it ok or both names must be stated inside the LOA ?

ii) One of the verbal agreed terms is that the current owner wud leave 70% of the furnitures/renovations and electrical applicances.
Lets say during the SnP signing, it is stated inside the SnP, however the owner refuse to sign and argue that at that moment, he don not want to
handover the furniture. Is there anything that we can do ? I just sign the LOA.

iii) During the LOA signing, i have requested the agent to introduce a lawyer. The current owner is also interested in using the same lawyer as well
which means that we are using a common solicitor. In this case, the common solicitor is representing whose interest more ? The owner or me ?

Many thanks rclxms.gif notworthy.gif . More questions wud be coming as i just sign my LOA for my 1st house.
Milo_O
post Dec 15 2011, 03:55 PM

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Pls help me to review the attached lawyer quote icon_question.gif
Property details,

Freehold
Individual title
Joint ownership at seller side (husband and wife)
Seller using different lawyer
Joint ownership at buyer side (me and girlfriend)
Buyer using different lawyer
Selling price: RM567k
Loan Amount: RM510k

S&P and loan lawyer is the same lawyer.

From the v1 thread and v2 thread, below is the info that i have gather.Correct me if i'm wrong

S&P
Misc fees of RM250
Can i nego for discount ?

Registration on MOT RM 500
Statuatory declaration RM 20

What is this and is this necessary ?

Loan Agreement
Stamp Duty on loan agreement RM 2,555 ?
My loan is RM 510,300. 0.5% from loan amount is RM 2,551. hmm.gif

Preparation of charge document RM 402.21
Registration Fee on Charge Document RM120.00
Registration Fee on Entry of Private Caveat RM340.00
Registration Fee on Withdrawal of Private Caveat RM80.00
Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Letter of Offer RM20.00
Purchase of Document RM100.00

What is this and is this necessary ?

Land Search RM 60
This is have been charged at S&P. Can i nego for waiver ?

Bankruptcy Search (RM12-00 per person)
I have to pay for seller bankruptcy search ?

Courier charges and Misc- Transport, phone calls, postage, fax, photocopies etc. RM 250
This is considered expensive since i'm using the same lawyer for S&P and loan agreement.

Any inputs and comments are most welcome

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 15 2011, 04:34 PM


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Bill_Loan____Title__1_.pdf ( 10.32k ) Number of downloads: 98
Attached File  Bill_P____Title__1_.pdf ( 32k ) Number of downloads: 78
Milo_O
post Dec 16 2011, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 16 2011, 12:42 AM)
Milo_O:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Disbursements you can always nego for discount. No prohibition there.

For stamp duty upon loan, it is always rounded up to next thousand - so your loan is deemed to be RM511K - so the sum is correct.

Purchase of documents from bank - the bank charges for copies of the loan doc. Price ranges from RM100-RM150.

Land search - RM30/search.

Bankruptcy search - if same lawyer for SPA and loan, it needs to be done once only. The onus is upon you to search whether the seller is bankrupt, not the seller, so you have to pay for it.

Total disbursements for both SPA and loan is RM500. If you've read the earlier posts you'll have a rough idea as to whether it is too much and what you may do.

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Thanks Dario. I have further clarifications.
Apologize if u may have answer this but i cant seem to digest the answer. blush.gif

SPA

Registration on MOT RM 500
Statuatory declaration RM 20

What is this and is this necessary ?

Loan Agreement
Preparation of charge document RM 402.21
Registration Fee on Charge Document RM120.00
Registration Fee on Entry of Private Caveat RM340.00
Registration Fee on Withdrawal of Private Caveat RM80.00
Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Statutory Declaration for Owner Occupancy RM 20.00
Stamp Duty for Letter of Offer RM20.00
Purchase of Document RM100.00

What is this and is this necessary ?


Milo_O
post Dec 16 2011, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Dec 16 2011, 02:06 PM)
The RM20 for SD is affirmation fees paid to the Commissioner for Oaths to attest your signature upon the SD. The SD prepared is the one for Owner Occupancy as required by the bank.

The RM100 is for payment to the bank for pre-printed loan documentation. The loan agreement, charge annexure, and other security documents must be bought from the bank. Standard practice.

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Thanks. I appreciate the respond notworthy.gif
Milo_O
post Dec 24 2011, 04:46 PM

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@ SunnyK,
The next following working day is count as the 1st day.

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 24 2011, 04:47 PM
Milo_O
post Dec 31 2011, 01:43 PM

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Question: EPF withdrawal

Situation: Me and my girlfriend as a buyer wud like to withdraw EPF Account 2 for house withdrawal for a joint ownership for a property.
I already have a joint ownership of one property with my mother
My girlfriend already have a joint ownership of one property with his brother.

In this situation, can me and my girlfriend still withdraw from EPF to purchase a property ?

icon_question.gif sweat.gif rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Dec 31 2011, 01:44 PM
Milo_O
post Jan 2 2012, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Jan 1 2012, 01:52 AM)
You did not mention if it is the first time which both parties are making the withdrawal from EPF.

In other words, did either party make a withdrawal from EPF when purchasing the first house respectively? If yes, then you can't make another withdrawal until that house is sold off.

Another thing to note is that for withdrawal for purchase of property with a party who is not a kin, the other party must be the purchaser AND borrower as well.

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Hi dariofoo,
Thanks for the respond rclxms.gif
Me and my girlfriend have not made any withdrawal from EPF Account 2 before

thumbup.gif
Milo_O
post Jan 18 2012, 10:40 PM

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I'm planning to withdraw from my EPF Account 2. At the same time, i'm also planning to sign up for 80% loan from a bank.
At the moment, i have enough cash on hand to pay the 10% deposit which means i have the remaining 10% will come from my EPF account 2.
My question is when is the last day for me to make the 10% payment ?
Just right before 3 months from the SPA signed ?
The reason is i'm trying to drag the EPF withdrawal as long as i could as EPF is going to announce the dividend.
Once the dividend is announce, i will immediately submit for withdrawal but at the same time, i do not wish to take any risk of penalty charges of late 10% payment if there is any due to the time taken to process the withdrawal.
Milo_O
post Jan 19 2012, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Jan 19 2012, 11:17 AM)
10% is payable on the date of execution of the SPA. You hand it over to your lawyer on that day. Your lawyer would then send over the SPAs and other docs to the vendor to be executed by the vendor, together with the cheque for 10%
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dariofoo,
I think u may have misunderstand my question rclxub.gif

Property Selling Price = $ xxx (100%)
Deposit = 10% payable by myself using own cash
Loan from bank = 80%

Remaining 10% going to be paid using EPF withdrawal. Is this 10% to be paid out on the date of SPA execution ?

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Jan 19 2012, 01:11 PM
Milo_O
post Jan 19 2012, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Jan 19 2012, 01:20 PM)
Oh ok. Sorry.

For your info, this amount is called the differential sum.

Differential sum has to be deposited with your lawyer as stakeholder before the bank drawdowns the first release to redeem the vendor's loan. The bank would require confirmation that the differential sum has been deposited, before they will release. Until and unless you do so, the whole process would be on hold.

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Thanks dariofoo notworthy.gif
I have another question here. What is the meaning of Letter of Undertaking ?
Who issue it and who shall receive it ? What is the reason of issuing and what function does it do ?

Thanks icon_question.gif


Added on January 19, 2012, 2:07 pm
QUOTE(1282009 @ Jan 19 2012, 01:22 AM)
Hi Dario, thanks so much for the valuable info smile.gif


Added on January 19, 2012, 1:28 am

I thought EPF interest is calculated monthly. So even if the dividend is announced later, the amount withdrawn will only affect the latest month's interest/dividend calculation. Actually I'm also in the same situation. I've withdrawn the EPF early this month but I believe I will still receive interest/dividend for the whole of last year for the amount I've withdrawn since my withdrawal is only in Jan-2012. Please correct my understanding if I'm wrong.
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Let me make few phone calls to EPF hotline and get some clarification.
Few times wud ensure the authenticity of the information as u know, goverment office always provide different answer from person to person.

This post has been edited by Milo_O: Jan 19 2012, 02:07 PM
Milo_O
post Jan 19 2012, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Jan 19 2012, 10:55 PM)
Letter of undertaking (LOU) commonly refers to the undertaking (promise) given by a party to the purchaser's financier to refund the monies paid out by the financier to that party, as the case may be, in the event that either:

a) the deed of assignment cannot be perfected for any reason whatsoever; or
b) the charge in favour of the purchaser's financier cannot be registered for any reason whatsoever; or
c) the deed of receipt n reassignment cannot be perfected for any reason whatsoever.


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Thank u !
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Milo_O
post Jan 20 2012, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(1282009 @ Jan 20 2012, 01:35 AM)
In that case, please update me as well. Thanks.
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This is the answer to a question related to EPF withdrawal before dividend announcement.

Question:
Scenario 1:
If i make my EPF withdrawal after 31 Dec and before EPF dividend announcement (usually on March), it would not affect the dividend payment.
Dividend payment would take the last number as of Dec for dividend calculation

Scenario 2:
If i make my EPF withdrawal before 31 Dec e.g Oct and before the EPF dividend announcement, dividend payment would take the last number as of Oct for divident calculation

This is a one time calling to EPF center.
I will call another one more time to get confirmation and validate the above info.
I hope my explaination can be understand by u.
My humble apologies if my explaination is not clear. Let me know and i will try to simplify it blush.gif


Milo_O
post Feb 3 2012, 01:23 AM

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Hi dariofoo,
May i know what is private caveat (PC) ?
How does it works and how does it helps the buyer ?
What does it do and what it is function for ?

Thanks.


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