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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2011, Liverpool 2 -1 Wolves : LS7 scored again

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ayam001
post Sep 5 2011, 04:23 PM

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what about this formation..

------------reina------------
Flano---Coates--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------hendo--------------
Bellamy-------------downing
-----------suarez---------
---------------carroll-----

Bellamy and Downing can change side together.

Hendo as CM..

OR


------------reina------------
Flano---Coates--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------hendo--------------
Kuyt-------------downing
-----------Bellamy---------
---------------Suarez-----

Kuyt as Rwf, downing Lwf..

Bellamy as SS.

sure pass and move works with this formation..

This post has been edited by ayam001: Sep 5 2011, 04:34 PM
Yluxion
post Sep 5 2011, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(ayam001 @ Sep 5 2011, 04:23 PM)
what about this formation..

------------reina------------
Flano---Coates--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------hendo--------------
Bellamy-------------downing
-----------suarez---------
---------------carroll-----

Bellamy and Downing can change side together.

Hendo as CM..

OR
------------reina------------
Flano---Coates--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------hendo--------------
Kuyt-------------downing
-----------Bellamy---------
---------------Suarez-----

Kuyt as Rwf, downing Lwf..

Bellamy as SS.

sure pass and move works with this formation..
*
I don't think Coates gonna start ahead of Carragher.
With Skertel doing so fine when he comes in for Kelly, will KD letting him have another go as RB? biggrin.gif
Duke Red
post Sep 5 2011, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(vreis @ Sep 5 2011, 04:21 PM)
to be honest not really convinced by his display todate. Don't come across as playmaker/creative type to replace Adam...esp against physical teams like Stoke.
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Hasn't impressed me thus far either but it seems that some writers do believe he has what it takes to succeed and ageing and more injury prone Steven Gerrard to let's see.
80toyshop
post Sep 5 2011, 05:13 PM

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mine formation

------------reina------------
Flano---Carra--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------hendo--------------
Bellamy-------------downing
-----------Suarez---------
---------------Kuyt-----

kuyt & suarez link up very good in front i won't want to break up their partnership, bellamy can run mayhem from the wing or interchange with downing.

but if bellamy fitness is not ready considering he doesn't play much for the past few mths.

------------reina------------
Flano---Carra--Agger---enrique
-------------Lucas----------
--------spearing--------------
hendo-------------downing
-----------Suarez---------
---------------Kuyt-----

bellamy & carroll can be super subs!!!
RedSiglap56
post Sep 5 2011, 05:24 PM

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Henderson is not confident enough at the moment but if KD perseveres with him and he is humble enough to learn, then he should do very well in the long run. He (and even all of us) has to eat humble pie now with Phil Jones called up to the senior England squad while Henderson only for the U21, albeit as captain. Didn't watch the U21 game. Did he play well? Why is he not included in the squad to play Israel?!

Was watching Adam play for Scotland against Czech the other day and was disappointed. He didn't play well and his team-mates didn't seem to want to give much of the ball to him. Perhaps it was due to his injury.

If KD's system is spot-on, missing Adam should not be a problem against Stoke. Moreover we have good cover now : with Lucas, Downing and Henderson as core, KD can pick from Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy and Spearing.

If he picks one of them, then he can play both Suarez & Carroll up front. Alternatively he can play Suarez alone with 5 midfielders to support him.
isaacmiranda7
post Sep 5 2011, 05:46 PM

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I think its pretty obvious that while Carroll seemed like a very good player for Newcastle, (and yes, he is talented) we have to realise that they were solely depending on him to deliver the goods, and thus all the balls went through him up in front.

Whereas right now in our squad we have many players who are just as capable, or perhaps more capable of scoring goals. I don't think our current system is suiting him very well. I think our game is a little bit too fast for his liking. Or perhaps he just needs to gel in.

Another striker facing a similar predicament at the moment is Torres, I believe, in Chelsea. With Atletico and Liverpool, almost everything went through him, and thus he had more opportunities, or rather, more confidence(?) to convert, as he knew he was pretty much the person that everyone trusted to score (?). He doesn't seem to fit in to their system of play.


80toyshop
post Sep 5 2011, 06:06 PM

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Agreed, but we need to find a way to integrate him n help him start scoring consistently, this is a long season n we're short of cover up front if suarez is injured& carroll not scoring, we're in big trouble.

QUOTE(isaacmiranda7 @ Sep 5 2011, 05:46 PM)
I think its pretty obvious that while Carroll seemed like a very good player for Newcastle, (and yes, he is talented) we have to realise that they were solely depending on him to deliver the goods, and thus all the balls went through him up in front.

Whereas right now in our squad we have many players who are just as capable, or perhaps more capable of scoring goals. I don't think our current  system is suiting him very well. I think our game is a little bit too fast for his liking. Or perhaps he just needs to gel in.

Another striker facing a similar predicament at the moment is Torres, I believe, in Chelsea. With Atletico and Liverpool, almost everything went through him, and thus he had more opportunities, or rather, more confidence(?) to convert, as he knew he was pretty much the person that everyone trusted to score (?). He doesn't seem to fit in to their system of play.
*
Everdying
post Sep 5 2011, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(80toyshop @ Sep 5 2011, 06:06 PM)
Agreed, but we need to find a way to integrate him n help him start scoring consistently, this is a long season n we're short of cover up front if suarez is injured& carroll not scoring,  we're in big trouble.
*
kuyt can play up front, and thats why we re-signed bellamy tongue.gif
ahmar
post Sep 5 2011, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(Everdying @ Sep 5 2011, 06:19 PM)
kuyt can play up front, and thats why we re-signed bellamy tongue.gif
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and stevieG is back (quoted from Captain Marvel himself) "fitter than ever" flex.gif
80toyshop
post Sep 5 2011, 07:00 PM

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Hopefully he can shake off the rust & make an immediate impact when he playing but i think kenny would be sensible to start him as a sub n slowly built match fitness or he may reinjure

QUOTE(ahmar @ Sep 5 2011, 06:27 PM)
and stevieG is back (quoted from Captain Marvel himself) "fitter than ever"  flex.gif
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hfi
post Sep 5 2011, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Sep 5 2011, 01:15 PM)
I think it's a matter of technicality. In my opinion, he played in a more advanced role than he does since having joined the club. Also, what little youtube vids I've managed to dig up of him prior show him making forward runs hence my rather lose deduction that he was indeed a more attacking player than he is now. Whether that makes him more of an AM, DM, CM, GM, CEO, etc is subject to interpretation because from what I can tell, players these days interchange positions throughout and match and hence I tend to refrain from using Football Manager positional terms because if you ask me, players these days are so flexible, they can play in at least 2 positions.

The article posted is more of a fan's opinion but he does to me, have a point. I used to hear talk about us having signed this box-to-box, Steven Gerrard type myfielder from Brazil, and I've yet to see him till this day. What I have seen is a kid who has matured and adapted because he wasn't given a choice, to a different role. Now what we have is a solid defensive lynch pin who anchors our midfield much in the same way Masch and Didi did.
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It's difficult to say what Rafa had in mind when he decided to mould Lucas into this DM type role but my guess it had something to do with Lucas's mentality. Back then we could all see his talent but one thing no one knew for certain was his personality. Maybe Rafa felt he had a certain aggresion or mental toughness that would be best suited for a DM type role. I mean if you look at players like Masc, Hamann, Makelele, Gatusso etc, they are all head strong type of characters. Lucas has the same trait, he was thrown into the deep end by Rafa, went through a shit storm and somehow got out stronger. I think Ferguson is doing the exact same thing with Anderson whos was also an attacking midfielder back in Brazil.
ALeUNe
post Sep 5 2011, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Sep 5 2011, 08:28 PM)
It's difficult to say what Rafa had in mind when he decided to mould Lucas into this DM type role but my guess it had something to do with Lucas's mentality. Back then we could all see his talent but one thing no one knew for certain was his personality. Maybe Rafa felt he had a certain aggresion or mental toughness that would be best suited for a DM type role. I mean if you look at players like Masc, Hamann, Makelele, Gatusso etc, they are all head strong type of characters. Lucas has the same trait, he was thrown into the deep end by Rafa, went through a shit storm and somehow got out stronger. I think Ferguson is doing the exact same thing with Anderson whos was also an attacking midfielder back in Brazil.
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That was like 2 years ago.
This guy was one of the most cursed POS back then.

http://www.football-corner.org/2009/08/24/...up-lucas-leiva/
http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/08/poll-...bout-lucas.html
leaF
post Sep 5 2011, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Sep 5 2011, 08:58 PM)
back then most of the forummers here are slating him for not good enough , I believe in Rafa when he said Lucas will going to be one of the top player , it is a shame we once consider to sell him for as low as 5M sad.gif lucky we get rid of purslow and Lucas being choosen as best player of the year 2011.
chaukeng
post Sep 5 2011, 09:34 PM

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http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/05/lucas...uld-regret.html

he supported lucas...but i didn't in the past...shame. cry.gif
nando
post Sep 5 2011, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(koolspyda @ Sep 5 2011, 12:47 PM)
both have excellent reading of the games for behind. pace wasnt hamann's forte esp when we had succession of games. i remember in GH era, where against the likes of traditional english mid-lower clubs using long balls we were often caught out of position. in those games, their swift counter attacks almost made hamann non existent. I use to curse "oh no, not again" when under GH we have not been known to be a club which scores a handful of goals.

in this respect sissoko covered more ground defensively (except sissoko's ball control / reading of the game was not in hamann's class). Masherano was almost as good as hamann's reading but had better energy/pace in entire game.
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i think Hamman's `legendary' status was cemented after the release of that classical parody of what happened in the Istanbul dressing room..I almost choked when `Rafa' said `he smokes...' hahahha!!
markblurberry
post Sep 5 2011, 11:40 PM

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Well, it is my personal opinion that hamann is the complete dm for me, of course he still have his weakness~ lack of pace, energy, flair etc, but if u consider his age, his competitiveness is unbelieavable...he may not provide the final killer pass, or 40 meters cross field pass, but, his crosses r good enough, n even better than masch n Lucas, so far...let not forget he heads better than masch, and also he can get the ball out from danger better after defenders head out from 18 yards..again in my humble opinion, hamann n Alonso r almost like for like, but I haven't see this in Lucas...yet. Let's hope he can develop into 1 soon
farisq
post Sep 6 2011, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(RedSiglap56 @ Sep 5 2011, 05:24 PM)
Henderson is not confident enough at the moment but if KD perseveres with him and he is humble enough to learn, then he should do very well in the long run. He (and even all of us) has to eat humble pie now with Phil Jones called up to the senior England squad while Henderson only for the U21, albeit as captain. Didn't watch the U21 game. Did he play well? Why is he not included in the squad to play Israel?!
*
I think Jones call up for senior England might be due to the fact that defensive area is quite thin in the squad. Pliz correct me. But in midfield I think the squad has so many options.
I watched he played against Azerbaijan and quite impressed with his performance. Lets just say he continued where he left off in the Bolton game. Lets see how he does against Israel tonite.
ahmar
post Sep 6 2011, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(farisq @ Sep 6 2011, 12:22 AM)
I think Jones call up for senior England might be due to the fact that defensive area is quite thin in the squad. Pliz correct me. But in midfield I think the squad has so many options.
I watched he played against Azerbaijan and quite impressed with his performance. Lets just say he continued where he left off in the Bolton game. Lets see how he does against Israel tonite.
*
correct me if i'm wrong but i think he is rested for the Israel game..
leaF
post Sep 6 2011, 01:09 AM

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2 weeks international breaks and I just dont get enough , need more suarez perfomances !!!!

here Suarez song but everytime I only heard the crowd singing du du du du du du du luis suarez !




this coming October against MU , where MyRawk will be gathering?
Duke Red
post Sep 6 2011, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Sep 5 2011, 08:28 PM)
It's difficult to say what Rafa had in mind when he decided to mould Lucas into this DM type role but my guess it had something to do with Lucas's mentality. Back then we could all see his talent but one thing no one knew for certain was his personality. Maybe Rafa felt he had a certain aggresion or mental toughness that would be best suited for a DM type role. I mean if you look at players like Masc, Hamann, Makelele, Gatusso etc, they are all head strong type of characters. Lucas has the same trait, he was thrown into the deep end by Rafa, went through a shit storm and somehow got out stronger. I think Ferguson is doing the exact same thing with Anderson whos was also an attacking midfielder back in Brazil.
*
I agree with the Anderson comparison and that defensive mids need aggression. It's like in the good old days when players like Sounness and Smith would let you know they were around at the start of the game. They'd try to throw you off psychologically. It's unnerving for a midfielder who has just received the ball to know that his nemesis is zeroing down on him from his blindside, pressuring him into a quick pass. What I like about Lucas' attitude is he never complained despite openly receiving stick from fans during games. Reminds me of a certain Igor Biscan who just put his head down and got on with his job despite being thrust into a less than familiar role. In the case of our Croat, his report card read that he was an attacking minded midfielder but Houllier thought his height and ugly mug was best served intimidating big centreforwards at the back. Thankfully, Rafa, Hodgson and Kenny have decided to persevere with Lucas and he's adapted. Igor wasn't given that much time but if you consider how he played when thrust into Gerrard's position against Bayer Leverkusen, who knows how much better he could have been had he played there from day 1?

QUOTE(markblurberry @ Sep 5 2011, 11:40 PM)
Well, it is my personal opinion that hamann is the complete dm for me, of course he still have his weakness~ lack of pace, energy, flair etc, but if u consider his age, his competitiveness is unbelieavable...he may not provide the final killer pass, or 40 meters cross field pass, but, his crosses r good enough, n even better than masch n Lucas, so far...let not forget he heads better than masch, and also he can get the ball out from danger better after defenders head out from 18 yards..again in my humble opinion, hamann n Alonso r almost like for like, but I haven't see this in Lucas...yet. Let's hope he can develop into 1 soon
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The thing about players like Hamann and Mascherano, is that you can almost forgive them for not having flair, or not being able to pass 40 yards. From a team perspective, their presence allows players with those traits more time on the ball, and the freedom to roam forward whilst neglecting their defensive duties for a bit. Most people would have thought that bringing on Hamann at half-time in Istanbul in place of a more attacking minded Steve Finnan was a defensive move, but this allowed Stevie to push further forward. No surprise then that our captain got our first goal and won a penalty for our third as he burst free in the Milan box. Of course playing a defensive role and having attacking abilities isn't mutually exclusive. It's what makes Alonso that much more special. Lucas is different entirely. He isn't expected to play long passes from deep. What he does is he provides linkup play between defence and midfield with simple, short passes.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 6 2011, 09:51 AM

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