meireles was 28 i believe...even though he was good, i think he didn't fit in with kenny's overall long term plan. even stewart downing at 26 was a bit iffy for kenny i believe. either way, i was worried merieles would get discontented because he didn't feature in the first two games (bar that super sub appearance).

To be honest, we are not that worried about Meireles departure. The real issue here that the conundrum here is that star players no longer want to play for Liverpool and this trend is very unsettling. We need to look at the bigger picture.

Then again,  when u keep on buying unproven overrated English players for a ballooned fee it doesn't help that much either.

I only fear that we may become the next Arsenal.

Regardless of whatever REASON they left, does it really relevant that much in this discussion?

The point is, they all left to join other teams because they figure they will have a better chance of winning silverware elsewhere but not in Liverpool.

You think by moving to Chelsea, Meireles will get to start in more games than he was in Liverpool? Of course not, he will be benched just like another squad player just like how he was in Liverpool. And he certainly feel more comfortable and higher chance of winning as he is surrounded by more quality players around him.

Why Nasri or Cesc's departure are deemed irrrelevant? They left Arsenal with the same thing in mind, to join a stronger army hence giving them a better chance of winning. So does Torres. Mind you , Mascherano joined Barca to warm their bench eventhough he was a starting 11 in Liverpool.

Put yourself in Meireles's position, you have been offered a chance to move to a stronger team, will you take the plunge? I'm not alluding that we are not on par with Chelsea, but unless we start winning games consistently and silverware and able to KEEP HOLD of our good players, our players will continued to be poached by rivals without any loose change.

I remember Bellamy was a flop.
He was no better than Robbie Kean.

It seems some of you are getting excited with Bellamy return to our squad.
He's 32 years old now. Is he getting better now?

just ask this question to urself...Bellamy or Ngog as backup striker??..i know who i would prefer

I want gerrard to play Lucas's position. Sacrificing Adam's creativity with the ball is a big
no no for me. His passes made somewhat half of all our chances really.

The thing about it is, IMO, Lucas is the only position and member of the team that is replaceble. No matter how he has captivated our hearts last season. Im just saying that we need that extra attacking player in our team. Yes, Lucas is essential to the team as a breaking up play guy, but that also be done by Gerrard, and what more, Gerrard has more ability than Lucas has in control and vision, not that im undermining Lucas or anything. Adam to me needs to stay in the team as that added vision to the field. No offense of anything but Lucas has that defensive ability that alot of our youngsters have.

inb4 some random tart replies about me bashing Lucas and cut the Lucas bashing etc.

Agreed. I like Lucas too and also believe he is essential to the team, breaking up their momentum and sort but to me, given the chance I would rather field Gerrard who can play a deeper role at CM and has better passing abilities than Lucas. Not bashing Lucas or suggesting we take him out of the starting 11, just merely stating that if we want to get more years from Gerrard then he has to change his style of play because we are already seeing him getting injured too often.

Yes, Lucas is the best dm in the team, but IMHO, 3 years of holding that position in the team would make everyone think he's the best cause
there really isnt anybody else we saw in that position barring spearing.
Again i dont thin kanyone really knows this for certain but, i believe gerrard has that mind, courage, and is a complete midfielder that can play defensively well. i believe Gerrard can anchor it well.
I play as a dm in my team. Well my preferred position is a dm. But i realise apart from the defensive abilities, the judgement and sometimes guessing players movements, i feel that if i cant contribute more than that, i feel im more like
a waste of a player in the team. I dont know if you guys understand this but i feel even as a
dm, you need that extra vision, extra atacking ability.
Im looking for a mascherano and alonso like player in just one player and i could see that in gerrard.

Not only tactical brain, but he doesn't have the required discipline as well to sit still as in his area. Looks no further than when he & Lampard played as CM for England. Notice how he always involves & dragged all over the field by tactically sound teams. & ever wonder why Capello put him wide on left instead of Lampard?
It's not coincident that coaches from GH to SGE till RB & Capello all played him anywhere but CM. Maybe 'forummers' are better qualified than those prosessional & renowned coaches afterall
It's only when he learns to reign in his instinct & play to his tactical requirement that he'll be able to play as DM. He HAS the ability but not the discipline & tactical brain.

Oh btw hfi, u been long gone from this thread, its a freaking sin to talk bad about Stevie, whether to sell him (theoritically), shove him to the right or whatever. He's untouchable here

This is about Gerrard moving to a defensive midfield pos. not moving him to a the defense like what your trying to say about Kuyt.
This isnt fixing anything. More of an improvement than anything.

about lucas, just reminds me of a quote - in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
so he doesnt necessarily have to be the best, but probably the only option so far.

imo, to play our other midfielders in a defensive position would be a real waste of their attacking talents.

I think it's a matter of technicality. In my opinion, he played in a more advanced role than he does since having joined the club. Also, what little youtube vids I've managed to dig up of him prior show him making forward runs hence my rather lose deduction that he was indeed a more attacking player than he is now. Whether that makes him more of an AM, DM, CM, GM, CEO, etc is subject to interpretation because from what I can tell, players these days interchange positions throughout and match and hence I tend to refrain from using Football Manager positional terms because if you ask me, players these days are so flexible, they can play in at least 2 positions.

The article posted is more of a fan's opinion but he does to me, have a point. I used to hear talk about us having signed this box-to-box, Steven Gerrard type myfielder from Brazil, and I've yet to see him till this day. What I have seen is a kid who has matured and adapted because he wasn't given a choice, to a different role. Now what we have is a solid defensive lynch pin who anchors our midfield much in the same way Masch and Didi did.

On the contrary, Kuyt has scored whenever he's been played up front. It's just that he plays a more withdrawn role with Liverpool unlike with Holland or Feyenoord where he plundered 70 goals in 100 games which is a very good return. If memory serves me, he was scoring goals when we finished second in the league under Rafa when we played some awesome attacking football and were scoring for fun against the likes of the mancs, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Bolton and even Real Madrid. Put him up front and he'll score I say.

Fans often talk about his work ethic but if you watch his movement off the ball you'll note that he is a very intelligent footballer. His diagonal runs off the ball give defenders a headache. By doing so, he drags defenders out of position opening up room for his teammates. He doesn't score spectacular goals but he does get in good goal scoring positions. People don't often talk about this part of his game. If his finishing were a little better, he'd be an good example of a goal poacher. Right place, right time.

If you prove you're good enough, you deserve a start, end off. Even the likes of Stevie will have to earn his place in the team. Maybe it's because he epitomises a Liverpool type player to me but I have heaps of respect for our Carra. Fair play if he's getting on a bit but I am somewhat disturbed that some of you talk about discarding him like he's just another name. Heaven forbid that King Kenny should receive the same treatment should we go through a bad patch.

I myself am critical of certain players. I was of Carra long ago when he played in midfield and rightback but Rafa saw what a lot of people didn't, that he would make a good centreback. He has never been known for his passing ability, anyone who has watched him through his entire career like me would know that. When he played defensive midfield for England, opponents would stand off him knowing that passing isn't one of his strengths. Carra has always been known to be a safety first defender. He isn't the most gifted on the ball and he doesn't pretend to be. Wouldn't want him to do a Djimi Traore in front of goal would we? My point is we all already know what he's like. It isn't like he lost the ability to pass over night. He is still very much the same player who put his body on the line to protect our goal in Istanbul. He is still the same player who doesn't go down unless he's really hurt. He is still a fierce and determined competitor. However, he is getting older but this leads me to my next point.

In my opinion, certain players or managers have done so much, they are beyond criticism. If we go through a bad run, will it be fair to criticise King Kenny after all he's done for the club? He is a legend, an immortal and in my books, Carra is a legend as well. I'm sure that he has the grace to step aside when he realises that his presence in the team does more harm than good, such is his love for the club. Yes he makes errors just like any other defender and if he's to be dropped, so be it but let's treat him with the respect he deserves.

It's like what I said earlier though, Carra has always hoofed the ball. If he doesn't have the room, he'll hit it out to the side into row Z. You won't find him trying to side step attacking players attempting to put pressure in him. Also, why only single him out? What not pick on the attacking players for missing opportunities as well? It's because he made one error and like keepers, one error is all that's needed for you to be crucified. Suarez can miss 10 opportunities, score a belter and no one would remember the sitters he's missed.

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Added on September 11, 2011, 5:22 pm

Of course.

Nothing wrong with him being replaced if we have a better option. Knowing Carra (though not personally), he'd be willing to be benched for the betterment of the team. I don't disagree that it gets frustrating when he hoofs the ball but he is limited, we all know that. I don't however agree that he is solely to blame for our defeat last night as some have quite eloquently pointed out.