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 SVS subwoofer, How many users here? Just courious

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ar188
post Aug 2 2009, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 1 2009, 10:23 PM)
Finally have time to do my PC-12Plus FR. Using realtrap.com's test tone and pink noise armed with SPL meter.

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

Here's the graph. Anyway, will try other s/w as well to compare the result.

user posted image

As you can see, there is a serious issue from 40Hz to 48Hz as it dips real low. Abt -26dB difference  doh.gif  The 'valley' is difficult as the PEQ only tackles peak. As you can see in this graph, the peak (28Hz) is being 'subdued' a bit. Any advice would be welcomed  smile.gif

At 16Hz, it starts to roll off 'dramatically', hitting 60dB at 10Hz, which is the same reading that I got when 46Hz tone is played. Only at 47Hz, the reading flipped to 50dB. It shot up to 61dB for 48Hz. There must be something very wrong with the room acoustic or something is messing with it . Need to find out  hmm.gif

When I have time, I'll do some 'tweaking' with the room. Then, re-do the graph again.

Oh yes, to get the 70dB reading, the volume level is at -33.5dB on my 1900. Crossover setting is at 80Hz.
*
eh.. what happened at 40-50HZ? hmm.gif
mys_terious
post Aug 2 2009, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(ycs @ Aug 2 2009, 12:54 PM)
wth, you buy 100kg/m3... gila heavy. how many inch thick you wanna make?

btw, the table is for 2" thick and does it mean double the coeff. if 4" thick? tongue.gif
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u r asking a chinaman who applies 'the more the merrier' theory on everything (if cost is not much more) hahah .. so i am going for 4inch ... i guess it does improve but i dont know how much more for low freq.. all the test results are from 125hz n above.. maybe some pros can advise us .. anyway your 80kg/m3 is not much lighter than what i am trying to order.. i think mine is 0.75kg heavier than yours per piece.. ycs lets go to the room treatment thread to discuss.. getting off topic .. sorry guys

This post has been edited by mys_terious: Aug 2 2009, 01:26 PM
htkaki
post Aug 2 2009, 05:25 PM

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I have shifted my sub to the corner of the room instead of 1/3 of the room. This would be the single easiest way.

I have acoustic foams at first reflection point, behind the front as well as at the back of the room.

Now, time for another graph. Will post after I am done with it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update :

user posted image

I have shifted the PC-12Plus to the corner of the room, right at the back of my Klipsch. The Klipsch have to be brought forward by abt 1' 8" to let the SVS in. Luckily, it didn't block the screen. Now, the Klipsch is parallel with the center spkr.

It is better and still needs to some improvement. I had removed the port block and set it at '20Hz' instead of previous '16Hz' with a port block. More to come. GTG

This post has been edited by htkaki: Aug 2 2009, 07:30 PM
mys_terious
post Aug 4 2009, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 2 2009, 05:25 PM)
I have shifted my sub to the corner of the room instead of 1/3 of the room. This would be the single easiest way.

I have acoustic foams at first reflection point, behind the front as well as at the back of the room.

Now, time for another graph. Will post after I am done with it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update :

user posted image

I have shifted the PC-12Plus to the corner of the room, right at the back of my Klipsch. The Klipsch have to be brought forward by abt 1' 8" to let the  SVS in. Luckily, it didn't block the screen. Now, the Klipsch is parallel with the center spkr.

It is better and still needs to some improvement. I had removed the port block and set it at '20Hz' instead of previous '16Hz' with a port block. More to come. GTG
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thought 16hz gonna give a more even output?
htkaki
post Aug 4 2009, 10:44 AM

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Yes, but itchy butt. Switched to 20Hz to see. Then, I changed to 16Hz setting yesterday afternoon. This is what I got :


user posted image

From here, we can see that 16Hz setting yields a slightly better result than '20Hz'. But the valley still at 45-46Hz. Have to fiddle with the PEQ again to tame the peak at 28-33Hz. Need to set 'Q' to cover this.

Time for RPG diffusers and bass traps to lift the valley. Not to mention a lot of manhours for the testing, trial and error.

This post has been edited by htkaki: Aug 4 2009, 10:50 AM
ronnt88
post Aug 4 2009, 10:45 AM

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still see the dip... can it be the fault of the subwoofer itself??
lightning69
post Aug 4 2009, 10:50 AM

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I guess that explains why I have to increase the level of the sub by more than 20 db just to feel the punch especially when playing music.

I try moving the sub around to the other corner and not much different and there is no other place where i can put this sub in my living room so i guess i have to live with it.

This post has been edited by lightning69: Aug 4 2009, 10:51 AM
anfieldude
post Aug 4 2009, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 4 2009, 10:45 AM)
still see the dip... can it be the fault of the subwoofer itself??
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No, these are room problems.

I wish we could check it with Audyssey. Audyssey has 8 times more resolution in the low frequencies just to improve these points. While it cannot fix the drop, it will balance it out.

I would suggest this, put the subwoofer in ur primary position and play the 40Hz, move around the room with the SPL meter to see if you can improve it. Then re do this. As pierreye suggested this is the easiest way.
jchong
post Aug 4 2009, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 4 2009, 10:45 AM)
still see the dip... can it be the fault of the subwoofer itself??
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This is fault of the room. Actually the room plays a very important part in the sound reproduction.
htkaki
post Aug 4 2009, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Aug 4 2009, 10:53 AM)
No, these are room problems.

I wish we could check it with Audyssey. Audyssey has 8 times more resolution in the low frequencies just to improve these points. While it cannot fix the drop, it will balance it out.

I would suggest this, put the subwoofer in ur primary position and play the 40Hz, move around the room with the SPL meter to see if you can improve it. Then re do this. As pierreye suggested this is the easiest way.
*
Yes, it is the common room nodes (modes) associated with rectangular room. Mine is the 'perfect headache'; 10' x 20'. I suppose we should play 40Hz - 45Hz, right? I mean to get a better result by doing each Hz at a time. Correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately, my 1800 does not have Audyssey sad.gif So, have to do it the hard way. I will use RPG diffusers first to test it out. Hope the is a bit of difference. I will do more treatment at the back of the room. The ceiling is a no go (due to approval issue wt internal Home Minister).

By the way, I think I shall move out all my DVD racks (4 units) from the middle of the room to the back of my listening position as I suspect that it could be the cause. To my understanding, it could react as diffusers. I already have absorption treatment at first reflection point as well as the side of the front wall. Shall see how it goes.


jchong
post Aug 4 2009, 11:26 AM

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Hey, didn't u get the SVS EQ device? That should help greatly in ironing out the sub freq curve.

Anyway, did you download ModeCalc to check on your room modes? It's here: http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm
mys_terious
post Aug 4 2009, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(lightning69 @ Aug 4 2009, 10:50 AM)
I guess that explains why I have to increase the level of the sub by more than 20 db just to feel the punch especially when playing music.

I try moving the sub around to the other corner and not much different and there is no other place where i can put this sub in my living room so i guess i have to live with it.
*
bro u didnt buy the spl meter? .. just try to do what htkaki did then it is much easier to solve.. if not u will get a hard attack like me last time during movies.. at the end found out i had +30db peak for certain frequencies
arremie
post Aug 4 2009, 11:45 AM

hmm...
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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 4 2009, 11:13 AM)
Unfortunately, my 1800 does not have Audyssey  sad.gif
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time for sky dragon? whistling.gif
htkaki
post Aug 4 2009, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Aug 4 2009, 11:26 AM)
Hey, didn't u get the SVS EQ device? That should help greatly in ironing out the sub freq curve.

Anyway, did you download ModeCalc to check on your room modes? It's here: http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm
*
blush.gif Yes, I knew that AS-EQ1 could help tremendously but it is selling like hot cakes. Have to wait for next shipment. ETA mid Sept if there is a unit to spare sweat.gif If not another 1 mth wait. No need to crack my head doing this and that. Plug it int, fiddle with the mic and knobs. Voila...... whistling.gif

The best option would be a complete treatment of the whole back wall since the length is exactly double the width of the room doh.gif Luckily the height is not 10. Else , I really need to shift to another room.

btw, how's your progress? smile.gif Really need a lot of time to do it which is 'luxury' to most of us.


QUOTE
bro u didnt buy the spl meter? .. just try to do what htkaki did then it is much easier to solve.. if not u will get a hard attack like me last time during movies.. at the end found out i had +30db peak for certain frequencies


Bro, IIRC he bought one. I guess he never utilise it sweat.gif Peak is a serious no no.


QUOTE
time for sky dragon? whistling.gif


Correct me if I am wrong. Even with Denon and Onkyo's current models (high-end models exempted tongue.gif ), it could not eliminate 'peaks' and 'valleys' effectively rclxub.gif . Still room treatment is needed. Any Denon / Onkyo owners care to share their sub FR graph? smile.gif






anfieldude
post Aug 4 2009, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 4 2009, 11:55 AM)
blush.gif  Yes, I knew that AS-EQ1 could help tremendously but it is selling like hot cakes. Have to wait for next shipment. ETA mid Sept if there is a unit to spare  sweat.gif If not another 1 mth wait. No need to crack my head doing this and that. Plug it int, fiddle with the mic and knobs. Voila......  whistling.gif

The best option would be a complete treatment of the whole back wall since the length is exactly double the width of the room  doh.gif  Luckily the height is not 10. Else , I really need to shift to another room.

btw, how's your progress?  smile.gif Really need a lot of time to do it which is 'luxury' to most of us.
Bro, IIRC he bought one. I guess he never utilise it  sweat.gif  Peak is a serious no no.
Correct me if I am wrong. Even with Denon and Onkyo's current models (high-end models exempted tongue.gif ), it could not eliminate 'peaks' and 'valleys' effectively rclxub.gif . Still room treatment is needed. Any Denon / Onkyo owners care to share their sub FR graph?  smile.gif
*
Current Audyssey MultiEQ XT will help in reducing the effect of the peaks and valleys. See my graphs in the subwoofer section. It is still there but flattened. Room treatments are the best way though.
jchong
post Aug 4 2009, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE
blush.gif  Yes, I knew that AS-EQ1 could help tremendously but it is selling like hot cakes. Have to wait for next shipment. ETA mid Sept if there is a unit to spare  sweat.gif If not another 1 mth wait. No need to crack my head doing this and that. Plug it int, fiddle with the mic and knobs. Voila......  whistling.gif


SVS doing very well. Sub selling like hotcakes, EQ also selling like hotcakes. smile.gif

QUOTE
btw, how's your progress?  smile.gif Really need a lot of time to do it which is 'luxury' to most of us.


Yeah, I agree it takes a lot of time, effort and experimentation. Tried the foams at 1st reflection point, got small difference. But I haven't had time to do much else.

QUOTE
Correct me if I am wrong. Even with Denon and Onkyo's current models (high-end models exempted tongue.gif ), it could not eliminate 'peaks' and 'valleys' effectively rclxub.gif . Still room treatment is needed. Any Denon / Onkyo owners care to share their sub FR graph?  smile.gif


The Audyssey MultEQ XT does help some. It won't give a perfectly flat graph, but it does help soften the peaks and valleys some. I did one before and after graph, will upload later coz it's at home.
htkaki
post Aug 4 2009, 12:26 PM

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Maybe I ll try to switch the 'YPAO' setting from 'flat' to 'front' or 'natural' to see what happens.

If all else doesn't seems to fall into correct places even with RPG, then it will be Denon AVR-3310 taking over my 1800 along with AS-EQ1. Sure no headache (lazy man way)


Added on August 4, 2009, 12:27 pmOh yes, I will bring in PC-12NSD, PB-12Plus, PB-13Ultra and PC-13Ultra (reserved) in early Sept 2009.

This post has been edited by htkaki: Aug 4 2009, 12:27 PM
arremie
post Aug 4 2009, 01:40 PM

hmm...
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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 4 2009, 12:26 PM)
Oh yes, I will bring in PC-12NSD, PB-12Plus, PB-13Ultra and PC-13Ultra (reserved) in early Sept 2009.
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no price yet? or need to pm for "special" price tongue.gif
robinlim
post Aug 4 2009, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Aug 4 2009, 12:24 PM)
SVS doing very well. Sub selling like hotcakes, EQ also selling like hotcakes. smile.gif
Yeah, I agree it takes a lot of time, effort and experimentation. Tried the foams at 1st reflection point, got small difference. But I haven't had time to do much else.
The Audyssey MultEQ XT does help some. It won't give a perfectly flat graph, but it does help soften the peaks and valleys some. I did one before and after graph, will upload later coz it's at home.
*
Just run the Audyssey MultEQ XT only for the sub without any other tools?
No more room treatment needed?
Can teach me how to do that? tongue.gif
Coz really confused on what u guys were talking about rclxub.gif
lexonline
post Aug 4 2009, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 4 2009, 12:26 PM)

Added on August 4, 2009, 12:27 pmOh yes, I will bring in PC-12NSD, PB-12Plus, PB-13Ultra and PC-13Ultra (reserved) in early Sept 2009.
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Bro, what about PC-12Plus?

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