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 [Home Appliances] Water Filter/Purifier Thread V2, Drinking Water Treatment System

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hestati
post Feb 11 2018, 02:27 AM

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Anyway, I'm done with MLM people selling paper+carbon+UV filter for x50 the cost and claiming advanced technology.

I want to bring another subject of the importance of sediment filter as a SEPARATE stage in every single filter system. See picture below:

user posted image

This is a 5 micron sediment filter after just one month of use in Russia.... Just 1 month! Sure our Malaysia water is not as bad, but I can assure you that in 6 months it will look like that too. Now, if it's a separate stage, you can always change this filter or wash it (if it's pleated polyester).

And what if you don't have this sediment filter? Then all that brown beauty goes to your your first stage, blocking it, decreasing it's efficiency and creating perfect environment for bacteria growth.

Now the good news is that you can always add this first stage to whatever system you have, even if it doesn't have one as standard As usual, high quality housing and quality US made sediment filter cartridge and problem solved. It should cost you about 150RM for real quality parts. Small investment that's totally worth it and can significantly increase lifetime of your more expensive cartridges and improve quality of your water.
jusTinMM
post Feb 12 2018, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(Ch33r @ Feb 11 2018, 12:34 AM)
The cartridge is designed to serve the average family’s cooking and drinking water needs for one year or 1320 U.S. gallons (5000 L), whichever comes first. While actual cartridge life will vary with the amount of use (of course as per mention 5000 L) and quality of the water supply. All the while water filtration experiment is using standard quality of water but not pure water, as my house have 7 siblings and total 8 people in house, our cartridge just changed last year August and now the filter still got 3 lights based on the indicators which total is 4 lights, it times to change while it left 1 lights and turn red. Those who lives in a water quality is really bad area, no matter using what type of filter that require filter maintenance sure will need to change more frequent compare to others to ensure the filter function well and also the water quality. This is the fact.
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My parent house just 4 adult and 1 baby... just 5 months the warning to change filter come out....no way they can use 5k liter for 5 months... bangwall.gif bangwall.gif ranting.gif

This post has been edited by jusTinMM: Feb 12 2018, 10:21 AM
Ch33r
post Feb 12 2018, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(jusTinMM @ Feb 12 2018, 10:21 AM)
My parent house just 4 adult and 1 baby... just 5 months the warning to change filter come out....no way they can use 5k liter for 5 months... bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif  ranting.gif
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Those who lives in a water quality is really bad area, no matter using what type of filter that require filter maintenance sure will need to change more frequent compare to others to ensure the filter function well and also the water quality. This is the fact.

If your place water is in bad condition, where there also dont have POE water filter, your cartridge will be gone, this is the fact, if dont believe can try change to other filter which aso need filter maintenance and you will see the result. See the filter condition of above people post which only used 1 month for the Russia, if it continue to use 1 year then the effectiveness need to consider. If every 5 months need change filter for everyone, eSpring wont still stand there. All about the water condition of the area but not the filter, if the water is bad and the filter still can over 1 year, u need to worry about the effective function of the filter.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 12 2018, 10:36 AM
jusTinMM
post Feb 12 2018, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(Ch33r @ Feb 12 2018, 10:33 AM)
Those who lives in a water quality is really bad area, no matter using what type of filter that require filter maintenance sure will need to change more frequent compare to others to ensure the filter function well and also the water quality. This is the fact.

If your place water is in bad condition, where there also dont have POE water filter, your cartridge will be gone, this is the fact, if dont believe can try change to other filter which aso need filter maintenance and you will see the result. See the filter condition of above people post which only used 1 month for the Russia, if it continue to use 1 year then the effectiveness need to consider. If every 5 months need change filter for everyone, eSpring wont still stand there. All about the water condition of the area but not the filter, if the water is bad and the filter still can over 1 year, u need to worry about the effective function of the filter.
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When using espring 2nd generation can use more than 1 year only can filter for almost 10years. But too bad 2nd gen no more spare part have to upgrade to 3rd gen. since then every 5 or 6 months the warning come out. So u wan to tell me now my area water getting very bad coincidently when im using 3rd gen espring?
Ch33r
post Feb 12 2018, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(jusTinMM @ Feb 12 2018, 02:27 PM)
When using espring 2nd generation can use more than 1 year only can filter for almost 10years. But too bad 2nd gen no more spare part have to upgrade to 3rd gen. since then every 5 or 6 months the warning come out. So u wan to tell me now my area water getting very bad coincidently when im using 3rd gen espring?
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So do you think the eSpring really last for 5 months? Please send your eSpring to your agent send back for foc repair if they check it is a defect, this is the customer benefits. But there is no related to the water filter effectiveness and it function, if all of the eSpring is last only for 5 months then you may sue it, anything also have their defect unit, if amway company check that it is the defect, they will give back a fresh new unit without any sens of charge, this is the customers benefits.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 13 2018, 01:22 AM
jusTinMM
post Feb 12 2018, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(Ch33r @ Feb 12 2018, 03:45 PM)
So do you think the eSpring really last for 5 months? Please send your eSpring to your agent send back for foc repair, this is the customer benefits. But there is no related to the water filter effectiveness and it function, if all of the eSpring is last only for 5 months then you may sue it, anything also have their defect unit, if amway company check that it is the defect, they will give back a fresh new unit without any sens of charge, this is the customers benefits.
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we have done that, send back whole unit to amway for checking...print out the usage and show us that we have used up to 5k liter...please pay to get the new filter...we calculate until crack our head still cant figure out how to use up 5k liter for 5-6 months duration...
Ch33r
post Feb 12 2018, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(jusTinMM @ Feb 12 2018, 03:53 PM)
we have done that, send back whole unit to amway for checking...print out the usage and show us that we have used up to 5k liter...please pay to get the new filter...we calculate until crack our head still cant figure out how to use up 5k liter for 5-6 months duration...
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I have people same as this case, but at last get a new replace without any sens of charge, it is due to the defect. My house can last long for over 1 year for 8 persons. Not sure how they deal with yours one, if you need help i can share to you. Or else choose which one is based on your needed, no matter what, but there is no any issue about the filter for sure, else it wont still stand there for so long time, anytime anyone have their right to choose the best and correct products of themselves.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 12 2018, 04:48 PM
WEE2000
post Feb 12 2018, 04:46 PM

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I had just bought a panasonic tk-cs10, to replace my diamond(G1500). All my Diamond filter cartridge needs replacement, I don't wanna waste $ to replace all those, cos i saw many new models from other companies came out.. May i know if i connect any other filter prior or after this panasonic, to make the water better/safer/cleaner? I normally will boil it after filtration. My budget is below RM1k. This is a long thread, am sorry if i asked repeated questions, perhaps someone could pinpoint me to that topic, or just continue here instead?
aeiou228
post Feb 12 2018, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(jusTinMM @ Feb 12 2018, 03:53 PM)
we have done that, send back whole unit to amway for checking...print out the usage and show us that we have used up to 5k liter...please pay to get the new filter...we calculate until crack our head still cant figure out how to use up 5k liter for 5-6 months duration...
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QUOTE
Who change eSpring cartridge every 3 to 4 months?
Your family drank 5000L quarterly?
You  use it to fill your bathtub ?
Your place water is in bad condition.
Please send back for foc repair


Isn't it disheartening to see how Amway agents answer espring customers who are facing the problem of frequent cartridge replacement than recommended period/capacity in the manual?
One possible cause of your problem is very likely due to the malfunctioning of the monitoring module ( the transparent acrylic box at he top of the filter with electronic board inside). Just like any other electronic appliances, they are more prone to malfunction than non electronic one.
Amway don't repair the monitoring module, they replace it at the cost of RM630 if your espring warranty already expired. No such thing as foc repair as claimed by one espring agent in this thread. The cartridge though has life time warranty....haha ! what's the point of life time warranty when the max you can use is one year.

Best to avoid water filter that has electronic and requires electricity to operate.

weikee
post Feb 12 2018, 07:06 PM

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My Mom house using espring, having the first gen before and now using the latest.

External must have a water filter, else the amway filter will not last.

Initial installation - we had a sand filter before the amway, useless the amway filter need replacement at very short time frame, and cloths sometime yellowish when wash. Change few time the sand filter still useless

Replace Sand with membrane filter, Amway filter last very long, 1+ year no need change filter. Cloths also not yellowish anymore. Used for many years only last year change to new generation Amway filter.


uncle08
post Feb 12 2018, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(WEE2000 @ Feb 12 2018, 04:46 PM)
I had just bought a panasonic tk-cs10, to replace my diamond(G1500). All my Diamond filter cartridge needs replacement, I don't wanna waste $ to replace all those, cos i saw many new models from other companies came out.. May i know if i connect any other filter prior or after this panasonic, to make the water better/safer/cleaner? I normally will boil it after filtration. My budget is below RM1k. This is a long thread, am sorry if i asked repeated questions, perhaps someone could pinpoint me to that topic, or just continue here instead?
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My Joven used for 3years no change filter still drink with good taste. Due to CNY i changed to Panasonic water purifier TK-CS10 bought($127.5 after applying voucher $15) from Lazada Pana Shop seller from Klang. I saw Aeon or Aeon big all selling $209 and $189 accordingly which i then decided buy online which is cheaper. While Aeon Big MidValley selling Joven JP200 promo is until 22Feb for $128 with purchase and purchase its cartridge only $45(out of stock) i rather buy Lazada Panasonic TK-CS10 branded and function more well ma.... Easy to find its filter also on market.

Will receive this few days and install for my mother. Let see how it progress well in term of taste or removing odour...
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Ch33r
post Feb 13 2018, 01:09 AM

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As what a eSpring user weikee mention, that is a very good example, no matter what type of filter, if does not have POE water filter outside, your filter won't last long to their life time, think twice that if does not have POE water filter, the water is straight filter by your POU indoor water filter, how heavy the job for the water filter to do the filtration before we drink. It is impossible the filter can last long for such situation.

5000 L is also include for cooking and wash vege, if the user used it to wash vege and also cooking for average 4-5 ppl , it is possible it reach 5000 L less than 1 year.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 13 2018, 01:17 AM
TSNightFelix
post Feb 13 2018, 12:14 PM

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I was wondering if 5,000 litres of the filter lifespan can be used up within 5 months (150 days) that will end up everyday you use more than 33.33 litres of water.

Assume your house got 10 persons, average per person can use 3.33 litres. Well pretty much make sense what.
As per daily recommended intake for adult is 3 litres of water per days.

This post has been edited by NightFelix: Feb 13 2018, 12:14 PM
coinstar
post Feb 13 2018, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ Feb 10 2018, 06:00 PM)
OMG, not Amway followers again, please stop!

From Espring manual (I'm not making it up, you can search yourself, page 3, #2

The eSpring Water Purifier is designed for use only with cold, bacteriologically
suitable (potable) water


This Class B system conforms to NSF/ANSI 55 and contains an ultraviolet lamp
that requires replacement at intervals in accordance with the manufacturer’s
instructions. The device is designed for the supplemental bactericidal treatment
of disinfected public drinking water
or other drinking water that has
been tested and deemed acceptable for human consumption by the state and
local health agency having jurisdiction. The system is only designed to reduce
normally occurring non-pathogenic or nuisance microorganisms
. Class B
systems are not intended for treatment of contaminated water.


Just read it one more time. Supplemental treatment of already clean water. Can only reduce non-pathogenic or nuisance microorganism.
Let's continue, it's fun. #7

Except for lead and a few other compounds, the eSpring Water Purifier
is NOT designed to remove soluble inorganic substances such as iron,
calcium, magnesium, nitrates, arsenic or fluorides.


hmmm... Sure you call calcium and magnesium "useful minerals". What about iron, nitrates and arsenic? Guess they were not the part of "removes 140 elements". You know that most quality 3 stage filters with sub-micron will remove iron, nitrates and arsenic, right? Geez, most iron can be removed by simple 20RM sediment filter...

Let's go even further. Page 15:

Rated Service Life: The Cartridge is designed to serve the average family’s
cooking and drinking water needs for one year or 1320 U.S. gallons (5000 L),
whichever comes first.
NOTE: Actual Cartridge life will vary with the amount of use and quality of the
water supply
.


Now connect the dots. If you use pure water, as suggested above, it will last 5000L. If water is relatively bad and contains a lot of impurities (like what we have in Malaysia), then this number drops like a rock. From my experience, 5 micron sediment filters needs to be replaced (or washed, if pleated polyester) every 3-4 months, otherwise no flow. That means that our Malaysian water can kill a filter within 3-6 months. So if we assume that filter can last 1 year, it simply means that Espring doesn't filter most impurities.

I got all this from Espring manual, didn't make any of it up, everyone can check it if you don't trust. I think this should conclude our discussion on MLM products and bring us back to real world of filters. Admins can pin this information to the top, would be helpful.
P.S. and while we're at it, let's go through the propaganda booklet that was presented by Amway people few pages ago. Again, you can verify it all.
Claim 11:  Effectively removes particulates down to 0.2 microns including asbestos, sediment, dirt, and scale

OK but...

Claim 15: Effectively removes waterborne parasites larger than 3 to 4 microns

Didn't they just mention that everything down to 0.2 microns is removed? Why mention particles of 3-4 microns and larger? Now I see how you got "140 contaminants", why not 1400, you can list everything that's larger than 0.2 microns one by one.
Claim 17: Does not remove beneficial minerals such as calcium, magnesium, and fluoride

Forgot to mention iron, arsenic and nitrates from #7 above. Selective marketing?
Claim 18: Ultraviolet light destroys more than 99.99% of waterborne disease-causing bacteria and viruses in drinking water

In their own manual they clearly say non-pathogenic or nuisance, now suddenly it's disease-causing. Not good to lie, I'm guessing that's why there is no information for that claim.
Claim 20: The cartridge will treat drinking and cooking water for 5,000 litres (1,320 gallons) or one year, whichever comes first

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that
the average person consumes 1.63 litres of liquids per day,
based on nine different surveys taken from literature (4). This would
equal 3,570 litres (943 gallons) per year.


No comments. I think the whole booklet was assembled from Wikipedia quotes and Amway people didn't even bother to check the math. 1.63*365=3570?

Claim 23: Uses exclusive patented technology

Ok. But all 3 are related to carbon block and most are dated back to 1986. Only one is from year 2000. So the system is basically a carbon block with 30 years old technology. What "advanced technology of BMW" are we talking about??? (yes, there are some electronics patents but these are not relevant to filtration).
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carbon block only brows.gif brows.gif brows.gif
jusTinMM
post Feb 13 2018, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(NightFelix @ Feb 13 2018, 12:14 PM)
I was wondering if 5,000 litres of the filter lifespan can be used up within 5 months (150 days) that will end up everyday you use more than 33.33 litres of water.

Assume your house got 10 persons, average per person can use 3.33 litres. Well pretty much make sense what.
As per daily recommended intake for adult is 3 litres of water per days.
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how about 4 working adult and 1 baby which is mon to fri 8am to 6pm not at home...drinking office water somemore...still 5 months need to change the filter...wtf bangwall.gif ranting.gif
Bobby C
post Feb 13 2018, 02:56 PM

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Too many marketing gimmick in the market. Got to thank Hestati for the educational part. May be you can elaborate more on the need of chlorine in the water tank for disinfection purposes hence RO or UF is not recommended at point of entry POE to the house.

I too got bombarded by sales talk over the months and understand more how they push the sale. Businessmen will offer whatever the market demand, not what the market need. They will offer the 'best' with the 'best price' for especially for the kiasu. The more kiasu the merrier, the easier to push up the price. So long the market is convince this is the Best for your family, they will pay. Best is if you sign up maintenance contract with them like D.. water, no brainer $ making machine. Everyone like free and easy, tell us the best, we just compare the 'best' and easiest type we will pay. Few years back lot of Diamxxx water right? Hardly heard about them nowadays. Discovered recently in the exhibition from one of the sales guy that his boss was boss of Dxxx water, now gone into coffee making machine .. same concept monthly/yearly contract and they use Starbuck coffee to convince their price cheaper .. lucky aint Starbuck coffee fans else might have signed up thumbup.gif

Another eg.the latest water heater in the market some local brand offer DC motor version. Wonder what's the need of DC motor in a water heater?? Price double compares to AC. DC is more dangerous than AC (recently many case of death due to electrocution caused by handphone charger) and now they put DC into the water heater. Wonder comply with international standards. Anyway, off topic.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Feb 13 2018, 04:27 PM
coinstar
post Feb 14 2018, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Feb 12 2018, 06:14 PM)
Isn't it disheartening to see how Amway agents answer espring customers who are facing the problem of frequent cartridge replacement than recommended period/capacity  in the manual?
One possible cause of your problem is very likely due to the malfunctioning of the monitoring module ( the transparent acrylic box at he top of the filter with electronic board inside). Just like any other electronic appliances, they are more prone to malfunction than non electronic one.
Amway don't repair the monitoring module, they replace it at the cost of RM630 if your espring warranty already expired. No such thing as foc repair as claimed by one espring agent in this thread. The cartridge though has life time warranty....haha ! what's the point of life time warranty when the max you can use is one year.

Best to avoid water filter that has electronic and requires electricity to operate.
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Ok.. after further reading I'm gonna settle for those DEMA 10" housing for pre filter (for cooking).

From the pre filter going to install stainless steel housing for doulton candle for drinking water..

Tq to u and hestati.
aeiou228
post Feb 18 2018, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(coinstar @ Feb 14 2018, 12:31 PM)
Ok.. after further reading I'm gonna settle for those DEMA 10" housing for pre filter (for cooking).

From the pre filter going to install stainless steel housing for doulton  candle for drinking water..

Tq to u and hestati.
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Why not instal the 10" filter at POE? With that, you don't need pre filter at every outlet.
Take note that you must buy the 10" filter housing that comes with pressure release button.

ar188
post Feb 18 2018, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Bobby C @ Feb 13 2018, 02:56 PM)


Another eg.the latest water heater in the market some local brand offer DC motor version. Wonder what's the need of DC motor in a water heater?? Price double compares to AC. DC is more dangerous than AC (recently many case of death due to electrocution caused by handphone charger) and now they put DC into the water heater. Wonder comply with international standards. Anyway, off topic.
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that is low voltage DC. obviously more safer than 240v ac
coinstar
post Feb 19 2018, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Feb 18 2018, 12:34 AM)
Why not instal the 10" filter at POE?  With that, you don't need pre filter at every outlet.
Take note that you must buy the 10" filter housing that comes with pressure release button.
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staying in condo... no place to install POE... moreover those POE that need backwash

 

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