No one said that RO water can leach minerals from your body, no one say that a person will suffered because of RO water but not mineral water. Is there anyone say that people dying because they were drinking RO? Just need to know that RO not all, just can search many articles or news related RO water advantages and disadvantages from google right.

https://www.waterbenefitshealth.com/reverse...osis-water.html
https://draxe.com/reverse-osmosis-water/

Nowadays, everyone can search anything from internet about any proven and any truth, people can just based on their research and needed to make a suitable choice, no right or no wrong, but there is no need to paint a bad picture to other brand of products which it does not show any most ethical, go to the same, people can choose 3M, people can choose Aquaphor, people can choose those panasonic which within the budget, all the while is based on the needed and requirements, at last still stick back to their choice, there are still alot using eSpring, there aso alot using Aquaphor and aso even water filter like panasonic which buy from mall or even RO water filter, cheers....

Hi members

I'd been suing Amway Espring for 3 years. I found that the filter price is way too costly. Especially you are ask to change every 3-4 months. Not to mention doesn't come with hot & cool function.

There are many water solution out there that offers monthly installment eg coway, cockoo or nesh or others that range from RM125-300/m and you need to sign contract for 5 years.

I hope there is a product that can provide clean water with both hot cold & room temp water dispenser and low maintenance.

hope to hear the suggestion from the group.

TQVM

I am looking for one that

Do you absolutely want hot and cold in one? This kind of machine requires a lot of maintenance to keep it clean.

If yes, then the easiest and cheapest way is to buy quality filter system and bottleless water dispenser and connect one to another. Just make sure you clean your dispenser regularly.

Yes, hot for milo n milk for my kids, and cold occasionally will be handy. i already have an outdoor filter system installed and it has auto flushing every night.

thinking to get those similar like coway or cockoo type with few filter and connect directly into the system. however those coway and cockoo will require to sign contract again, which im kind of agaist it.

You will be overpaying like 10x for Coway/Cockoo. Best way is really quality separate filter and simple dispenser. Whole set will cost you like what, 2000RM or so...

These type of filter you pay more per Liter. You feel is cheaper because it operate by pay per use.

Who change eSpring cartridge every 3 to 4 months?
Your family drank 5000L quarterly?
Assuming 20 people live under the roof, each person consume 2L (yes 2L) per day, 20*2*30 = 1200L per month
It's 4800L for 4 months...
Or you use it to fill your bathtub

Hot & cold water dispenser never comes with cheap price, don't forget the electricity consumption. Hot water is around 300-450w cold water is around 350w.
Hot water? Boil it, don't be lazy, there're so many instant hot water dispenser out there doesn't require reboiling.
For cold water, utilize the fridge la.

Another thing, what kind of outdoor filter you use? Need flushing every night? That's insane...

This post has been edited by oyching88: Feb 10 2018, 12:23 AM

OMG, not Amway followers again, please stop!

From Espring manual (I'm not making it up, you can search yourself, page 3, #2

The eSpring Water Purifier is designed for use only with cold, bacteriologically
suitable (potable) water

This Class B system conforms to NSF/ANSI 55 and contains an ultraviolet lamp
that requires replacement at intervals in accordance with the manufacturer’s
instructions. The device is designed for the supplemental bactericidal treatment
of disinfected public drinking water or other drinking water that has
been tested and deemed acceptable for human consumption by the state and
local health agency having jurisdiction. The system is only designed to reduce
normally occurring non-pathogenic or nuisance microorganisms. Class B
systems are not intended for treatment of contaminated water.

Just read it one more time. Supplemental treatment of already clean water. Can only reduce non-pathogenic or nuisance microorganism.


Let's continue, it's fun. #7

Except for lead and a few other compounds, the eSpring Water Purifier
is NOT designed to remove soluble inorganic substances such as iron,
calcium, magnesium, nitrates, arsenic or fluorides.

hmmm... Sure you call calcium and magnesium "useful minerals". What about iron, nitrates and arsenic? Guess they were not the part of "removes 140 elements". You know that most quality 3 stage filters with sub-micron will remove iron, nitrates and arsenic, right? Geez, most iron can be removed by simple 20RM sediment filter...

Let's go even further. Page 15:

Rated Service Life: The Cartridge is designed to serve the average family’s
cooking and drinking water needs for one year or 1320 U.S. gallons (5000 L),
whichever comes first.
NOTE: Actual Cartridge life will vary with the amount of use and quality of the
water supply.

Now connect the dots. If you use pure water, as suggested above, it will last 5000L. If water is relatively bad and contains a lot of impurities (like what we have in Malaysia), then this number drops like a rock. From my experience, 5 micron sediment filters needs to be replaced (or washed, if pleated polyester) every 3-4 months, otherwise no flow. That means that our Malaysian water can kill a filter within 3-6 months. So if we assume that filter can last 1 year, it simply means that Espring doesn't filter most impurities.

I got all this from Espring manual, didn't make any of it up, everyone can check it if you don't trust. I think this should conclude our discussion on MLM products and bring us back to real world of filters. Admins can pin this information to the top, would be helpful.



P.S. and while we're at it, let's go through the propaganda booklet that was presented by Amway people few pages ago. Again, you can verify it all.


Claim 11: Effectively removes particulates down to 0.2 microns including asbestos, sediment, dirt, and scale

OK but...

Claim 15: Effectively removes waterborne parasites larger than 3 to 4 microns

Didn't they just mention that everything down to 0.2 microns is removed? Why mention particles of 3-4 microns and larger? Now I see how you got "140 contaminants", why not 1400, you can list everything that's larger than 0.2 microns one by one.


Claim 17: Does not remove beneficial minerals such as calcium, magnesium, and fluoride

Forgot to mention iron, arsenic and nitrates from #7 above. Selective marketing?


Claim 18: Ultraviolet light destroys more than 99.99% of waterborne disease-causing bacteria and viruses in drinking water

In their own manual they clearly say non-pathogenic or nuisance, now suddenly it's disease-causing. Not good to lie, I'm guessing that's why there is no information for that claim.


Claim 20: The cartridge will treat drinking and cooking water for 5,000 litres (1,320 gallons) or one year, whichever comes first

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that
the average person consumes 1.63 litres of liquids per day,
based on nine different surveys taken from literature (4). This would
equal 3,570 litres (943 gallons) per year.

No comments. I think the whole booklet was assembled from Wikipedia quotes and Amway people didn't even bother to check the math. 1.63*365=3570?

Claim 23: Uses exclusive patented technology

Ok. But all 3 are related to carbon block and most are dated back to 1986. Only one is from year 2000. So the system is basically a carbon block with 30 years old technology. What "advanced technology of BMW" are we talking about??? (yes, there are some electronics patents but these are not relevant to filtration).

This post has been edited by hestati: Feb 10 2018, 06:59 PM

https://www.amway.com/en/ResourceCenterDocu...minantsList.pdf
Here are the over 140 contaminants that eSpring can filter out, if any false, anyone can sue it and the company need to bare the risk.

Iron:
Iron is necessary for your health. The most well-known role that iron plays in human nutrition is in the formation of the protein hemoglobin, which transports oxygen to all cells of the body. Iron is also used in cellular metabolism and is found in many of the body’s enzymes. Low iron stores in the body can lead to iron deficiency, anemia and fatigue and can make you more susceptible to infections. The Environmental Protection Agency of US considers iron in well water as a secondary contaminant , which means it does not have a direct impact on health . Based on WHO (World Health Organization), for humans, the average lethal dose of iron is quite high -- between 200 and 250 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. High levels of iron can be harm, however, iron toxicity is rare, and iron intake from drinking water is typically much too low to raise health concerns -- about 0.6 milligrams per day if you’re consuming a typical 2 liters of water per day , compared to an average iron intake of 10 to 14 milligrams per day from food.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...micals/iron.pdf

Nitrate:
According to National Drinking Water Quality Standard of Malaysia (NDWQS), the maximum contaminant level (MCL) for nitrate is 10 mg/L .
https://environment.com.my/wp-content/uploa...g-Water-MOH.pdf
From National Water Quality Standards for Malaysia, the nitrate (NO3) in our water is around range 5 mg/L to 7 mg/L which is below the standard maximum contaminants level (MCL) for nitrate.
http://www.wepa-db.net/policies/law/malaysia/eq_surface.htm
The best way to remove nitrate from drinking water are Ion exchange units, reverse osmosis, or distillation.

Arsenic:
If in an inorganic form, arsenic can be removed or reduced by conventional water treatment processes. There are five ways to remove inorganic contaminants; reverse osmosis, activated alumina, ion exchange, activated carbon, and distillation. Filtration through activated carbon will reduce the amount of arsenic in drinking water from 40 - 70% or up to 80%, http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/12345...9%20413-416.pdf.
The Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) of arsenic to water concentration is 0.01 mg/L equal to 0.01 parts per million (ppm) according to WHO (World Health Organization). From the research, The concentration of the arsenic As (III) in the filtrated water by activated carbon was as low as 0.0001 mg/L or parts per million (ppm) which was much lower than the Maximum Contaminant Level ( MCL).
Anion exchange can reduce arsenic by 90 - 100%. Reverse Osmosis has a 90% removal rate, and Distillation will remove 98%. If the arsenic is present in organic form, it can be removed by oxidation of the organic material and subsequent coagulation. In fact eSpring which use activated carbon filter is capable of reducing 40%-70%. eSpring only list the contaminants that it can really reduces effectively which not claimed wrongly.

So for who want to remove nitrate or arsenic or those inorganic contaminants can just choose reverse osmosis filter which filter everything and just a very clean and pure water.

The cartridge is designed to serve the average family’s cooking and drinking water needs for one year or 1320 U.S. gallons (5000 L), whichever comes first. While actual cartridge life will vary with the amount of use (of course as per mention 5000 L) and quality of the water supply. All the while water filtration experiment is using standard quality of water but not pure water, as my house have 7 siblings and total 8 people in house, our cartridge just changed last year August and now the filter still got 3 lights based on the indicators which total is 4 lights, it times to change while it left 1 lights and turn red. Those who lives in a water quality is really bad area, no matter using what type of filter that require filter maintenance sure will need to change more frequent compare to others to ensure the filter function well and also the water quality. This is the fact.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 11 2018, 01:09 AM

Gee...! Looks like Amway eSpring agents have been lying in this forum all these while.
Debunking the false representation of eSpring agents with eSpring's very own manual.

Anyway, I'm done with MLM people selling paper+carbon+UV filter for x50 the cost and claiming advanced technology.

I want to bring another subject of the importance of sediment filter as a SEPARATE stage in every single filter system. See picture below:



This is a 5 micron sediment filter after just one month of use in Russia.... Just 1 month! Sure our Malaysia water is not as bad, but I can assure you that in 6 months it will look like that too. Now, if it's a separate stage, you can always change this filter or wash it (if it's pleated polyester).

And what if you don't have this sediment filter? Then all that brown beauty goes to your your first stage, blocking it, decreasing it's efficiency and creating perfect environment for bacteria growth.

Now the good news is that you can always add this first stage to whatever system you have, even if it doesn't have one as standard As usual, high quality housing and quality US made sediment filter cartridge and problem solved. It should cost you about 150RM for real quality parts. Small investment that's totally worth it and can significantly increase lifetime of your more expensive cartridges and improve quality of your water.

My parent house just 4 adult and 1 baby... just 5 months the warning to change filter come out....no way they can use 5k liter for 5 months...

This post has been edited by jusTinMM: Feb 12 2018, 10:21 AM

Those who lives in a water quality is really bad area, no matter using what type of filter that require filter maintenance sure will need to change more frequent compare to others to ensure the filter function well and also the water quality. This is the fact.

If your place water is in bad condition, where there also dont have POE water filter, your cartridge will be gone, this is the fact, if dont believe can try change to other filter which aso need filter maintenance and you will see the result. See the filter condition of above people post which only used 1 month for the Russia, if it continue to use 1 year then the effectiveness need to consider. If every 5 months need change filter for everyone, eSpring wont still stand there. All about the water condition of the area but not the filter, if the water is bad and the filter still can over 1 year, u need to worry about the effective function of the filter.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 12 2018, 10:36 AM

When using espring 2nd generation can use more than 1 year only can filter for almost 10years. But too bad 2nd gen no more spare part have to upgrade to 3rd gen. since then every 5 or 6 months the warning come out. So u wan to tell me now my area water getting very bad coincidently when im using 3rd gen espring?

So do you think the eSpring really last for 5 months? Please send your eSpring to your agent send back for foc repair if they check it is a defect, this is the customer benefits. But there is no related to the water filter effectiveness and it function, if all of the eSpring is last only for 5 months then you may sue it, anything also have their defect unit, if amway company check that it is the defect, they will give back a fresh new unit without any sens of charge, this is the customers benefits.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 13 2018, 01:22 AM

we have done that, send back whole unit to amway for checking...print out the usage and show us that we have used up to 5k liter...please pay to get the new filter...we calculate until crack our head still cant figure out how to use up 5k liter for 5-6 months duration...

I have people same as this case, but at last get a new replace without any sens of charge, it is due to the defect. My house can last long for over 1 year for 8 persons. Not sure how they deal with yours one, if you need help i can share to you. Or else choose which one is based on your needed, no matter what, but there is no any issue about the filter for sure, else it wont still stand there for so long time, anytime anyone have their right to choose the best and correct products of themselves.

This post has been edited by Ch33r: Feb 12 2018, 04:48 PM

I had just bought a panasonic tk-cs10, to replace my diamond(G1500). All my Diamond filter cartridge needs replacement, I don't wanna waste $ to replace all those, cos i saw many new models from other companies came out.. May i know if i connect any other filter prior or after this panasonic, to make the water better/safer/cleaner? I normally will boil it after filtration. My budget is below RM1k. This is a long thread, am sorry if i asked repeated questions, perhaps someone could pinpoint me to that topic, or just continue here instead?

Isn't it disheartening to see how Amway agents answer espring customers who are facing the problem of frequent cartridge replacement than recommended period/capacity in the manual?
One possible cause of your problem is very likely due to the malfunctioning of the monitoring module ( the transparent acrylic box at he top of the filter with electronic board inside). Just like any other electronic appliances, they are more prone to malfunction than non electronic one.
Amway don't repair the monitoring module, they replace it at the cost of RM630 if your espring warranty already expired. No such thing as foc repair as claimed by one espring agent in this thread. The cartridge though has life time warranty....haha ! what's the point of life time warranty when the max you can use is one year.

Best to avoid water filter that has electronic and requires electricity to operate.

My Mom house using espring, having the first gen before and now using the latest.

External must have a water filter, else the amway filter will not last.

Initial installation - we had a sand filter before the amway, useless the amway filter need replacement at very short time frame, and cloths sometime yellowish when wash. Change few time the sand filter still useless

Replace Sand with membrane filter, Amway filter last very long, 1+ year no need change filter. Cloths also not yellowish anymore. Used for many years only last year change to new generation Amway filter.