yea i think its time for lowyat members to form a CG !!! YO !!! my church got no CG one == ... too small in size ... selangor area 1 cg family, other area one ...

Didnt the pastor vet thru first before selecting CG leader? Must be of mature character,etc,etc. And then need to go thru CG leader training session first.
AND, if possible, CG with majority married people, the leader is married. Single adults have another CG.
There're even CG according to age group or gender - college students, single adults, senior adults, ladies fellowship, men's fellowship. So just choose one that can click with

But I dunno what denomination you're from. For pentecostal, we can have female CG leader(there are more sisters than brothers in churches anyway), even female pastor.

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Oct 15 2014, 02:09 AM

How to gather, have online CG meeting, video conferencing? Esp if we are not from same states

This is nothing to do with whether a person is single or not.

The thing is that Paul was also single. He would have been the ideal caregroup leader if he was still around

I can also argue that when you have a family, more likely you will not care about others because there is an excuse that you are too busy with your family.

In this case, its not because the person is single. It's because they were never sympathetic in the first place. Tell me, if say this same person has a wife, would he be sympathetic because even then he would not understand what is it like for a couple not to have kids. It would be much worse because since they are busy, all they want to do is just finish the caregroup meeting.

Most CG leaders do not have sympathy for others. I mean after all, this is what the world is like right? People on the surface could seem nice to you but then when things go wrong, they just run away. Even though as Christians we understand that this is the wrong approach to things but then tell me, do you seriously think everyone who gets into leadership position really has a Christian Heart?

I think joining CG is the wrong idea in the first place. Not saying that we should not have bible study. But then common sense would tell you that most likely members in the CG would not be able to relate to each other and what happens in a CG generally is fake concern because the thing is most of the people in the CG do not even know you personally. I mean forcing a group of random people to bond together is the wrong idea in the first place .It would be a better idea to bond well with a few Christian friends which you can trust and rely on.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 04:06 AM

My understanding is Paul was referring to the spiritual Israel, the kingdom of God.



The Israel of God(kingdom of God) will be made up of gentiles and Jews. The gentiles does in first and Jews last.
Thus the parable of the labourers of the vineyard



However, the Jews will come in en mass when they see Jesus coming to rescue their nation at Armageddon. And YES, Jesus will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem. Nations will bow

manage your expectation


For those who wanna start Care Group, or wanna join care group, manage your expectation.

Leaders are not perfect. We have to support them in prayer, and emotionally. If you drag them to care your problem, then somebody else needs to pamper the leaders lah.... Leaders has emotional bank. Some of them small, some of them large. If they are exhausted, then somebody else need to refill them. Support them in prayer.

Some leaders because they are good at caring people, and good bible knowledge, perhaps you need to support them financially... at least, somebody buy yum cha lahhh... don't ask the leaders to always pay for food.

If the leaders is poor and the members oso poor, our Christ is rich. Perhaps instead of focusing to food / yum cha, then you just focus on eating the spiritual bread ? aka read the bible ?... no money to buy pork chop then eat ur bible lah... that's the only viable options. isn't that written that faith grow in persecution ?

for followers, support your leader. but i understand some followers are simply sick sheep. you already carry so many problems and you need cell group. uhm... two options:
1. find another care group. love your leader but wisely find another supplier to take care your care group need.
2. learn more to lean to Christ. This require you to be mostly an independent person that has enough maturity to come to throne of Grace by yourself.

Lastly about Paul ? the appostle ? i think Paul is not a good caregroup leader as of my standard.
What is my standard ? my standard is to find church / care group leader put me and my family first instead of your ministry first.

if you read this material below, i need barnabas and mark as CG leader, cuz i already like Paul myself LOL
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/8...nd-barnabas-the

This is my preference lor... don't take this as a biblical standard.

Sorry for the late reply. Never knew you replied the post.

Ya. We should focus on what the Bible says. Not sure what you meant by other church? Aren't we all of the same church?

1) When you read the book of Acts, consider the beginning, through the end .... what was the difference?

Well, you will realize that there is a dispensational transfer happening right in the book of Acts. The disciples are in a transition, since they were raised in the Old Testament dispensation, and they had been saturated with and even constituted of God’s Old Testament arrangement. As a result, it was very difficult for them to forsake those things in an absolute way to God's New Testament dispensation.

For example, at the beginning, they [the disciples] cast lots (a very Old Testament practice) yet the Spirit is tolerant of it and affirm it. They should be ones who lived by the leading of the Spirit.

Let us take the case of Peter as an illustration. Peter was chosen by the Lord and used by Him to carry out His New Testament economy after He Himself had accomplished the transfer. Peter, however, was saturated with and constituted of the things of the old dispensation. For this reason, when Peter saw the vision of the great sheet in which were four-footed animals, reptiles, and birds, and when a voice told him to rise up, slay, and eat, Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything common and unclean” (10:14). Knowing what the situation would be the Lord had sent an angel to Cornelius with a word concerning Peter. Furthermore, “while Peter was pondering concerning the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, three men are seeking you. But rise up and go down and go with them, doubting nothing, because I have sent them” (10:19-20). Peter loved the Lord, and eventually he went to the house of Cornelius. But this was a very difficult thing for Peter to do.

It is the same with miracles. There is a transition.

Chapters twenty-seven and twenty-eight of Acts do not present anything of doctrine. Rather, in these chapters we have a record of a man living Christ to the uttermost. Paul was imprisoned, bound in chains, and surrounded by guards. The sea was very stormy, and the sailing was rough. Furthermore, Paul was away from his homeland and from most of his friends. Although he was in such a difficult situation, he lived like a reigning king.

Here in Acts 27 and 28, Paul lived Christ in a situation that was altogether contrary to his culture and character. Many things were disappointing and discouraging, but Paul nevertheless lived a life of the highest standard. In Paul the wonderful, excellent, and mysterious God-man, who lived in the Gospels, continued to live through one of His many members. This was Jesus living again on earth in His divinely enriched humanity. Paul’s living, therefore, was a repetition of the living of Jesus.

This is the New Testament economy. Eventually, Paul's epistles (mostly written in prison) will develop that point, in which, we come to 2).

2) Paul's experience in Philippines, 2 Cor (of which one verse you quoted) and his advice with Timothy

(Lazy) This verse, Phil. 1:21 do encapsulate Paul's experience: "For to me to live is Christ". As always, even now Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death” (Phil. 1:20).

With revelation we will see that the miracles were done to signify something deeper about life. Miracles are not the goal. The apostle Paul did many miracles, but he did not heal himself or his co-workers Timothy and Trophimus (Acts 19:11-12; 1 Tim. 5:23; 2 Tim. 4:20). Paul had a thorn in his flesh, which was a physical sickness (2 Cor. 12:7). After he asked the Lord three times that it would depart, the Lord said, “My grace is sufficient for you” (vv. 8-9). Grace is Christ Himself as life experienced by us.

It is significant that Paul does not tell Timothy to pursue power, gifts, miracles, and theological training. Rather, he charges Timothy to pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, and meekness. Righteousness is a matter of being right with people before God according to God’s righteous and strict requirements.

In the second place, he should pursue godliness, the expression of God. In 4:7 Paul told Timothy to exercise himself unto godliness. Or a man of God. He should pursue righteousness and godliness; he should seek to be right with God and man in order to be a living expression of God in every way. This is to live a daily life which manifests God. God’s desire is to produce men of God by dispensing Himself into those who believe in Christ. A man of God is one who partakes of God’s life and nature (John 1:13; 2 Pet. 1:4) and thus becomes one with Him in His life and nature (1 Cor. 6:17) and thereby expresses Him. This corresponds to the mystery of godliness, which is God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16).

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 15 2014, 09:39 AM

The Experience of Jacob

The dream - Gen 28

Genesis 28:12 says, "And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it." The center of this dream was a ladder. In this dream, did the ladder come down from heaven? No, it was already there on earth, and Jacob only needed to have a vision of it. Before he had the dream, he could not see the ladder. This means that everything necessary for receiving the birthright was there long before we were saved. The problem was that we could not see it. We had to have a vision in order to see it. Do not think that in his dream Jacob saw the ladder descending like Peter saw the sheet descending from heaven (Acts 10:9-16). Jacob did not see something coming down; he saw something which was already on earth. We are not told that the ladder reached the earth but that it was "set up on the earth" and that "the top of it reached to heaven." It was a ladder already existing on earth, not one descending from heaven.

What about the angels of God on the ladder? When I read about them in years past, I always thought that they were descending and ascending. But this verse says that the angels were ascending and descending. This means that the angels were there before Jacob had the dream. When he saw them, they were firstly ascending and then descending. If Jacob had seen the ladder coming down from heaven and the angels of God descending on it, his dream could have been taken as an answer to Jacob's desire or prayer. If Jacob had said, "O God, I'm lonely and want to see a vision from heaven," and a ladder had come down from heaven with angels descending on it, it would have been the answer to his prayer. But it was not at all like this. Without even praying, Jacob suddenly saw a ladder set up on the earth, the top of which reached to heaven. That the angels were ascending and descending on this ladder indicates that the dream was not an answer to Jacob's prayer but that it had been preplanned by God.

Do not think that your salvation was an answer to your prayers. Before you prayed, salvation was there waiting for you. It was not that you prayed and then suddenly salvation descended from heaven and fell upon you. No, before you were saved, salvation was waiting for you, but you had to be forced to leave your home and every man-made situation and be brought into a lonesome environment. Then your eyes were opened to see what was already there.

When was heaven opened to you for your salvation? Did you fast, pray, and cry to the Lord to open heaven to you and then suddenly see heaven opened? No, heaven has never been closed to God's chosen people. Although heaven is open to us, we still need to come to Bethel. We may not want to come here, but we have no choice. Like Jacob, we have been forced to come here. Many of us came into the church life because we had no choice. We were forced to come. You may say, "If I had a way, I would get out of the church life." But, thank the Lord, you do not have a way. Perhaps you have said, "I don't like the situation in the church life. I want to go away." But praise the Lord that this is impossible. We all have been forced to come to Bethel, the place where we see the already-existing ladder. There is no need for us to beg and wait for heaven to be opened. Once our eyes are opened, we see that the ladder is already here. This is the heavenly vision, the heavenly dream. In this dream we do not see a ladder descending; we see the ladder which is here already.

When we come to the New Testament, we see that Christ is the ladder which Jacob saw. In John 1:51 Jesus said to Nathanael, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you shall see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man." Christ is the One who brings heaven to earth and joins earth to heaven. Firstly, He brings heaven to earth and then He joins earth to heaven. Genesis 28:12 says that the ladder was "set up on the earth." According to our concept, Christ has gone away from the earth. But according to God's concept, Christ has been set up on earth, and no one can move Him. For nineteen and a half centuries, people have tried their best to shake this ladder, but they have been unable to do it. Do not think that Christ is coming down. No, He has already been set up on earth.

Yes we are.

Galatians 3:7 (NIV) - Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.


Nothing could be further from this truth. It didn't say there, those who are of Jewish descendant.

Therefore we have access to the promises and I can testify it's true.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 15 2014, 10:00 AM

Oh you mean the New Earth, after this Fallen World is no more?

Doesn't matter to me. Stay on new Earth or Visit Heaven. We can transcend time and matter in our new body.

Can visit-visit.

that's the past. Forget it lah... Our Christ create eyes in front of us so we can easily look ahead, not too much look at the back.

btw: you resolved ur CG issue rite ? here's the quote:

don't get me wrong. Have you tried eHarmony ?
http://www.eharmony.com/

It's not the dating i talked about, but long term relationships. Don't yelled out like other user manickam123 ok...

Well, in a sense the leader is right, CG is not social club per se. A lot of ppl treat it like social club, i.e. cerita2, gossip2, more on gossiping session. A lot of ppl just go to CG to let off steam, cerita2, that's it.

To me, that's wasting time and energy, go there, listen to them gossip2, grumble abt their life problems. But since I dont have high expectation, then wouldn't disaapointed. I also will not share personal matters during CG.

As for the insurance guy, he shouldnt divulge other members private matters. BUT, he ffk you at mamak stall also want to kira meh? In life and ministry, many2 more challenges we face, worse than what you describe ada byk.
Our focus should be on God, human, even the supposed matured christians, are flawed.



This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Oct 15 2014, 01:47 PM

after cerita2x, gossip, social clubbing, do you have prayer, bible discussion ? or simply go home ?

Yeah should treat cell group (we call it 'bible talk' group') as social club group. It is not the same. Although we can also chat about anything in the 'cell group', but there need to be some spiritual agenda in it. For example pray together, study the bible together, reach out friends (evangelism purpose), and all those 52-one-another verses in the bible basically..so that we can be more christ-like.

CG is not a social club.

Bro coming to Church is all about knowing God.

Just curious, did you playfully kacau some amoi or tangachi in the cg during your youth or something like that?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 15 2014, 04:18 PM

or is it you didn't pay attention during the lesson n kacau the guys?

My view has always been that eventually God will fulfil all His promises towards the Jews.
When Israel returns to God, I think the focus will be more towards his natural people.

The thing is. When Jesus set his throne on Earth, I would imagine that Israel will be filled up with mostly Jews at that time.

Also when Paul wrote Rome, he clearly seperated between the Jews and the Gentiles and also highlighted the promises that God will fulfil to the Jews.

The thing is. If say you were the Jews and you happen to read the old testament. What happen is that you would most likely be able to relate to all of the curses which God has proclaimed on you.
But then, the question here is this.

What about all of the promises? Do you think it would be consistent that those promises that were meant for them are now meant for the church in general?

Anyway

12 As many as desire to make a [q]fair show in the [r]flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only because they would not suffer persecution for the [s]cross of Christ.
13 For they themselves which are circumcised keep not the Law, but desire to have you circumcised, that they might rejoice in [t]your flesh.
14 [u]But God forbid that I should [v]rejoice, but in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereby the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace shall be upon them, and mercy, and upon the [w]Israel of God.

Notice that the them here refers to the Jews.
So therefore Israel Of God must also be related to them



25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This covenant is it to the spiritual Israel or to the actual Israel.
The answer is pretty obvious.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 06:01 PM

Of course prayer, the Word part got. But as you know, the pot pet pot pet part is much longer than prayer or Bible discussion.

For the extrovert who needs to socialize, yeah. For the introvert, not really.

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Oct 15 2014, 05:36 PM