Take it as a motivation instead. I myself managed to secure a job in Australia before I graduate and I don't even sound like an Australian at all.

Work hard and tailor your path accordingly. All the best.

I am not going to advise you to try and stay or not stay. That is a deeply personal decision. I can only relay what I have observed and be one of many sounding boards for your thought process.

If mentally you have given up just reading my post, then obviously you have answered your own question.

If you don't like the idea of working hard and doing all you can to try and stay, and still end up not being able to stay, again question answered.

Try and think like an Australian recruiter. What can frega offer me a local can't? If the answer is nothing, then you are relying on luck to be given a job. Not saying there is anything wrong with that. People win 4D after all.

Plus Soony a couple of threads later on (see below) managed to secure a job. Perhaps you can ask him/her nicely how he/she did it? What industry? What he/she think made him/her different? Did soony only target small businesses? Did he/she network a lot? Another question might be, out of all his/her Malaysian friends who tried to stay after graduating, how many succeeded? I said 1 out of 200 based on my fiend ship group. Maybe his stats are like 9 out of 10.

Hey mate. Can relate to you. Just completed my studies and still contemplating if I should stay (locally or interstate) or return home to pursue my career in Accounting. Am more American but got caught up a lot with Australian media and sports.

We, in WA are quite proud with Dockers (except for finals).

I wouldn't say I've given up. I'm still going there next year to complete my studies, that's never been a question. Staying seems like a f***ing lottery, that's all. Maybe I can get family friends to hire me. It's a stretch but it's at least something. Or maybe I can do an internship somewhere and hopefully they'll hire me full time. But still a stretch because as a company, I wouldn't want to go thru all that visa crap just to hire me unless I'm "special".

Academically and experience wise, there's always someone better or skilled, so basically no one is special (local or immigrant).

So the only way I see that'll make me desirable is have the same/higher level of skill as the other applicants but willing to work harder / longer hours / cheaper? And hope in the end, your employer won't f*** you over? On top of the rest of the stuff you're supposed to do (networking all that other bullcrap).

There is no harm to apply for PR first then only decide later(but of course if you willing to pay for it).

I also don't really understand that American or Australian part. You don't have to force yourself to be part of it but eventually you will experience it once you are in the workforce(not those Asian-only company)

Just make sure you understand the lame joke from locals. They also will find the jokes from Asian very interesting especially when they are open-minded.

1. If you're going there to study for less than 2 years, chances are you will fail the points test. I think the min to score points is 2 years of full time underfraduate/postgrad studies in Australia.
2. Like you say unless you get a relative to hire you, your chances to secure a job is near zero without a PR. Sure people do strike lottery. But you want to risk going to Australia without a PR and without a job? How much money do you have to burn? You can't even work part time without a PR.
3. Over and beyond that, you might find that at the end is it really worth it?
Sure, Australia do have a peaceful and good work life balance, great outdoors, good weather and good place to bring up a family. But it is also expensive. Rising cost of living and property prices, Taxes, medicare and insurance are a killer. Most people only earn enough to get by and you will definately suffer a lower standard of living compared to say Singapore - for starters eating out everyday lunch/dinner is out of the question in Australia. Most people doggie bag from home.
4. There are always alternatives like Singapore. Its safe, cost of living is much much cheaper than Australia, and income taxes are negligable. The only downside is expensive property prices (but you can always get a sub SGD300k HDB is Jurong or Woodlands) and expensive vehicles (not needed in my opinion. MRT, busses and taxis run islandwide. One of the cheaperst public transportation in the world especially if you compare them with Australia (!))

Thanks, I'll think about it. In fact, my personality inclines more into Americans (except the excessive extroversion that they possess) due to influences from the States since young and my study exchange during my degree. During my final year, I worked in an Australian professional organisation on casual basis and yes you're right, I do enjoy their lame jokes and their laid-back approach towards work.

Not that I am trying to 'fit in' being an Aussie, but I rather find their media, sports and politics my source of entertainment to kill my boredom after school, since I don't live in a city that is considered vibrant.

What made me contemplated heading home is partly strong connections and friendships established here, the style of work and thinking process that I am now used to (which is so different from home). The thing about being abroad has taught me to exercise my creativity as well as to appreciate different thinking processes in a flat hierarchy work environment (pretty much) but I guess in reality I should just forget about these as soon as I work back home.

This post has been edited by immabee: Nov 30 2013, 09:55 PM

IMO,I don't think Singapore is a best place to live. Career might be good but lifestyle is very boring. People are arrogant and selfish. The flat is boring and expensive. MRT is convenient and cheap but I dislike to carry many stuff into MRT especially when it's crowded. I also can't cook if I just renting a room and stay with landlord. Singapore is really a best place to live if you are rich or a country size like Malaysia.

If you can meet the criteria and don't really care the money, apply first and talk later. At least you will have a backup if let's say you are back to Malaysia and not happy with it.

Australia have many places to explore especially in suburbs area. The national park is amazing and refreshing. Stress with work?? you can get a mini getaway in just a day. Want to chill with some beers? Head over to rooftop bar.

Funny coming from someone looking for a job in sg.

But i disagree.

1. I don't understand what you mean by boring. Australia lifestyle is not boring? You go to work come back and everything closes at 6 pm, no? maybe it would be less boring if you could make some friends, no? You can stop being, in your words, "arrogant and selfish".
2.People are arrogant and selfish also not true. Depends on individual. Its unfair to slap a generalisations just because you met some @ssholes. By the same thought are you saying all australians are not arrogant and selfish? I've met some pretty terrible Australians as well. Most Australians are friendly but that is IN their culture. It is not ours. Being an Asian yourself, ask yourself, how often do you greet foreigners (bangla or otherwise) in your own country i.e. Malaysia? Its just not in our culture!
3. Again i don't understand what you mean by houses being boring. Its more a matter of money rather than boring in my opinion. There are huge "interesting" good class bungalow in Singapore. Similarly if you are broke with no money in australia, i bet yr house in australia will be "boring" too.
4. If you dislike lugging yr groceries around try and get a taxi. They are everywhere and dirt cheap compared to Australia
5. SG strategic location and strong currency means travelling overseas is also cheap. Going to BKK or HK or Macau or KL or Jakarta is a breeze esp with budget airlines. For eg flight tickets to HK are as cheap as sgd200 on promo period and only takes 4 hours. The same cannot be said of Australia.

To add on, Singapore is one of the most metritocratic country in the world. The same cannot be said of Australia. Past a certain point in your career, your chances of moving up is practically nil if you're an Asian in appearance (you could speak like them and even grow up in Australia dosen't matter). I'm NOT saying there are absolutely NO Asian holding senior post in Australian company. I'm saying there are very very very few. Most of the time the senior management are all aussies what's more the CEO.

According to them, they say its to project an image and values of Australia by appointing Australians in Australia companies. I say its just a spin to institutionalise racism just like how Malaysia is doing the same with Bumi in GLCs.

In Singapore, if you are good, you will climb to the top. For example, the CEO for DBS Bank is a former Indian National. OCBC used to be helmed by David Conner - ang moh and is curretly helmed by Sam Tsien - HK. So goes for many GLCs in Singapore. Race is just not an issue.

This post has been edited by robertchoo: Nov 30 2013, 11:36 PM

1. I've already studied 1+ years there, but I didn't finish. I'm going back to finish it for another 1 year.

2. I'm going there to study then only hope to find a job. I can always come back to msia.

3. I don't know what'll happen tbh. I probably won't get a job so everything is moot. But if I do I will try to make the best of it. Taxes hmm, I'm not sure how taxes work there. I know I don't make enough to pay any here, or maybe I do but I haven't been paying.

I feel like my future is dead (not financially) here. I don't see my life changing at all here, because its safe. I need to force myself to be outside of the comfort zone and try to forge a different life / identity. Sorry if I sound silly.

4. Sg is way too competitive.

I don't think everyone's aim is to make a ton of money.

I think most people just want to find a job they enjoy, and live comfortably (within reason). I know I do.

Sorry but I don't plan to reply you any further. Whether is fact or not but you still won't accept it. No doubt SIngapore is a great country but most of them are money-minded.
Also, those were just my own experience and I just trying to give my opinion to fellow members

Money is no.1. No doubt.
Even if I can earn a lot in Singapore but I could have spend most of the time with workplace. I just need a work-life balance.Weekend is weekend, work is work. You can say Australia is a laid-back country but when it comes to work,I can see they are pretty serious and responsible. At least they won't leave until they get their work done. Hardworking and work smart are 2 different things. If you can think out of the box then you will be quite comfortable.

1) I must say my bro working in SG O&G. He told me not all singaporean are really bad arse but majority yes. Money minded. Lost of respect to family elders and children grown up in a situation of comparing each other. Pretty arrogant and selfish and sometimes back stabber. I've encoutered myself during uni. Such an arsehole!

2) I do met some Ozzie arsehole as well. Fly kite somemore. However, generally they're pretty easy to mix around. Not as bad as what we think. If you need their help, they really help you. I was very lucky have some Ozzie friends who really helped me a lot in work. Greeting each other is something we need to learn from and it's important! This is in respect of humanity. I realised how important it is to greet someone you dunno.

3) Providing you're super rich. If you're earning in Oz, you be able to build your own house with your own design at reasonable cost. What's the majority people stays in SG? Pigeon hole? How many could afford landed property?
The only thing i agree with you is Australia is a boring place FOR shopping mall shoppers. It's a fascinating place for outdoor activities! Fishing or BBQ or spending quality times with family & friends. You won't get bored with these activity. If anyone who's really a mall shoppers or like to stay at home, please don't come.

4) Yeah, you're right. How bout when you're bringing your kids or babies along where no one taking care of them at home? Ask them to carry your grocery bags?

5) SG is strong currency no doubt you can travel overseas in affordable price. Ozzie currency not bad either. going USA/Europe/NZ/Micronesia/SEA at very very affordable price.

Please elaborate how very very few asian top management? any statistic?

Image & value in Oz is multiculturalism:-
1) PR holders could work in government sector.
2) PR holders could tender government job (I just help my PR boss won 2 government project).
3) PR holders can get government housing scheme (FHOG)
4) PR holders could enter local uni
5) PR holders could get gov scholarship
6) PR holders entitled centrelink

so please elaborate the bolded terms

I think you're asian supremacy. Asians are good in the job they're doing but ruthless as well treating the staff. Why majority asians like to join westerners company?

1 & 2) I disagree. Like you said there are very nice singaporeans and very nasty ones just the same as there are nice australians as there are nasty ones. In fact my singaporean friends have helped me more than my fellow msian when i was working in sg. I find that its the malaysians who are ruthless and back stabber.

3) i do not think normal aussies can afford even a small apartment in sydney, melbourne, perth let alone build your own. If yr talking about farmhouse, i seriously doubt anyone wants to lives miles away from civilisation. Scream also no one to help you. And btw you can always buy cheap big properties in jb and travel to sg. Alot of expats are doing that now.

4) You can employ something called maids. They are cheap in sg. You cannot afford a maid in australia

5)i don't think so. Travelling to usa/euro is very expensive due to expensive flight tickets.

6)you look at telstra, rio tinto etc. Who are their ceo? Asian?

7) the time of aus has come and gone. Nows asia's time to shine. Like the wheels of karma. Nothing lasts forever.

the same reason as to why many aussie are wating to come to work in sg.

Very informative arguments there about Sg vs Aussie work and life.

Was just wondering did you guys (hihihehe, robertchoo and nemesis) have experience living and working in both Singapore and Australia ? How long in both countries ? Or just lived in 1 country and hearsay about the other country ?

I've been living in Sydney for 2 years later moved to Perth for almost 5 months now. Living in KL for more than 10 years and been to Singapore for month and twice.
Well, my perception from robertchoo is living like a king or queen and pay peanuts to people who came from third world country. If you work with him, you'll join his bloodsucking minion.

From your reply, i get your message saying living in singapore is living like a king or queen. Throw the parenting job to maid. Pay them peanuts and expect your kids becoming genius. Let them decide your children's future while you can continue concentrate your career.
Anyway, that's your decision to choose from. I can't interfere.
Ozzie living might not as green as you think. If you think you're comfortable living in SG like a zoo, then suit yourself. We'll see about that.
No hard feelings

Nope living in singapore is neither heaven or hell. Just like living in anywhere else in the world. There is no such thing as a perfect place. There are good points and there are also bad points. One just need to adapt.
Take for eg SG. You are right to say that parents usually leave the teaching to maids and school teachers. But then again if i recall correctly singapore students are also one of the brightest in the world with the highest uni educated ppl as compared to australia. Conversely parents in places like europe and aus have plenty of time for their children yet they are not on the list of brightest people nor are they known to be uni grads (talking about the average aussie).

And what do you mean singapore is a zoo? I don't understand. My point is some stress is good in life. If your kids see their friends all get good results and theirs are not, they will strive to do better the next time due to peer pressure. That is call good stress. If they are too stress free and relaxed, they will have no incentive to do well.

And btw i live in msia. And its neither heaven nor hell. Its how you adapt to your environment and make the best use of it.

No hard feelings

Pay is not a function of employers greed. Its a function of demand and supply. Its simple economics. demand >supply the more the pay. The reverse is also true. The supply > demand the less the pay.

So if there are a shortage of high calibre managers for example and demand is more than supply, i can't pay them rm1000 pm for example as nobody will work for you. Conversely if there are an oversupply, i can offer rm800 and many will rush to get the job.

so please do not be blinded by the nonsense about employers greed. It has nothing to do with greed and all to do with demand and supply.

This post has been edited by robertchoo: Dec 2 2013, 05:11 PM

Lived in Australia for 5 years and I love it there. There are pros and cons but what I like the most is work-life balance, bigger country for me to drive around, many events going on, able to see other cultures(be it Italian, Greek, Spanish, Korean, Japanese,Chinese, Hongkie, Indian, etc), amazing food(not the Asian food), etc. Public transport is consider OK for me as long as I don't have to transit around. Weekend is really a weekend where you can see everyone relaxing and kids running around but they never neglect their works during weekdays.

I have been looking for job in Singapore and been there back and forth frequently in these 1 month. THe people there are selfish and arrogant, public transport is OK for me if I don't have to transit between bus and MRT, food is so-so only compare to Malaysia, rental is expensive, no where to go in a small island,etc.

Everyone have their own lifestyle and for me Australia suits me. The weather could be horrible but at least they have a not-so-cold winter.People say the property is expensive in Australia but Singapore is not that cheap either. One HDB flat can cost more than SGD$800k and that building looks horrible. I can build a house+garage from scratch with a land for AUD$400-500k in Melbourne inner-suburb. My ex-colleague just built a 4 bedrooms house + garage from scratch for just $480k in Caulfield area and can take a 20 minutes train to CBD to work.

Good things about both countries are you will have purchasing power if you work there. You can easily go travel with the strong currency and electronics are not that expensive.