Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Working in Australia, Experiences working in Australia.

views
     
frega
post Nov 30 2013, 01:27 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(maxmillion @ Nov 24 2013, 08:42 AM)
Hello All,

First time poster. Long time reader. I hope to share some insight into the Australian job market having lived here basically my whole life. I think perhaps by sharing my story and observations, you all can get some learnings from it.

Allow me to briefly introduce my background. My family migrated from Malaysia to Australia (Melbourne) back in the 1980’s when I was about 6 (we obtained PR). I spent my whole life growing up in Australia, though I have retained my Malaysian citizenship as I hope to come back to Malaysia one day (but that is best left for another thread of Malaysians who want to come home). For all intents and purposes however, I am more or less Australian (Malaysian however by choice and identity). 

My dad, a qualified electrical engineer struggled to get a job here. He was making $300k p.a. back in the late 80’s, but gave it all up for us (his children) to come to Australia. And for that I am eternally grateful. He applied for every job under the sun when he got here, including that as a simple tram driver. But after two years of trying, he had to leave us and come home to KL to not be a financial burden on the family and start generating income so that we could survive here. Again, I can never repay this emotional debt. He travelled back and forth between Australia and KL until he retired in 2005. I basically grew up without a dad during my teenage years, but I tried to spend as much summers with him as I could. It was very tough on him to be away from his family all these years – tough on us all.

My mother on the other hand had somewhat more luck. She was a math teacher at Taylor’s College in KL. She managed to get a job with Taylor’s college here in Melbourne as the Principal in KL wrote her a sterling recommendation. She taught until she was 67 (two years post the mandatory retirement age) 

As for me, I went to high school and university in Melbourne (and eventually the US too), and became a business consultant. Throughout my time at university, I have seen many Malaysians try and stay after studying. Out of the hundreds of Malaysians I befriended, only one girl managed to successfully get a job here after studying. Her sole point of differentiation? She basically spoke like an Australian. When she came here at 18 to study at Uni, she made it a point to associate with the locals only and to lose her accent. Truth be told when I first spoke with her, I didn't even know she was Malaysian, she had absolutely no accent. What’s the lesson? People like people like themselves. Australian’s want to hire Australian’s (don’t confuse this with skin colour). Hiring is more than just finding someone who can get the job done, the market is that competitive that a lot of people can get the job done. It’s about hiring someone who they can have a beer with at the end of the day, that can talk about cricket and footy (no, not Man U v Arsenal, I am talking about bulldogs v freo). All Asians face this cultural barrier. Start learning about Aussie sports and slang and throw that into the conversation. One of my key development goals my boss and I agreed to, was to get into Australian Football because the clients loved talking about it.

Lesson 2. I kept my anglicized Chinese name for a very long time – even into the first 2 years of my working career. When I switched companies, I decided adopt an English Alias. Why? The Aussies could never remember my name! If someone can’t remember your name, how can they address you besides the Asian guy, or even at all? Now I am guilty of this as well. I will remember an English name far easier than I will remember a Chinese name. It is not because the people here are racist. It is because the people here grew up learning English and hence English names are easier to remember. To you an Eng Dih is probably easier to remember than an Eddy. But to us, an Eddy is easier to remember and pronounce than Eng Dih. If you apply for jobs, use an English alias. It is not illegal to do so. Remember lesson one, they want to hire people like them. Being Malaysian, is not a point of differentiation that will get you in.

Lesson 3. People anchor to known quantities. If you are an accountant, people know a PwC, but they wont know Wong, Mohammed and Co. Point is, if you come here make sure you highlight brands. Also, overseas work experience, except for that gained in say Europe or America, is generally looked down upon. Just as Malaysian companies will prefer someone with local experience. No different here. You are at a distinct disadvantage if all you have is Malaysian experience. Emphasize brands and international experience if you have it.

Apologies for the long post. Hoping those lessons will give you some insight into working in Australia. I am happy to answer questions.

Max
*
This is getting me down. I was planning to resume my studies in Aus (I have maybe a year left) next year. Then try to stay there and find work. Is that not advisable? I already have some working experience locally in programming, which I hoped will aid me as Software Dev is in the SoL list.

I can't say I identify myself like an Aussie, more American? It was my dream to migrate there but I think it might not out of reach / impossible. Aus was always the 2nd / viable option.

I did not integrate well back then during my younger years studying there, I was a dumbass teenager. But I was planning to make an effort to mix with locals this time around. But Aussie footie? Eww, I'm a nerd. And the accent, I am able to pull up a pseudo American accent, aussie is a bit tough.

Max, do you think I should give up? I haven't been more excited to return to Aus. Maybe I shouldn't expect so much...
frega
post Nov 30 2013, 05:41 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(maxmillion @ Nov 30 2013, 02:14 PM)
I am not going to advise you to try and stay or not stay. That is a deeply personal decision. I can only relay what I have observed and be one of many sounding boards for your thought process.

If mentally you have given up just reading my post, then obviously you have answered your own question.

If you don't like the idea of working hard and doing all you can to try and stay, and still end up not being able to stay, again question answered.

Try and think like an Australian recruiter. What can frega offer me a local can't? If the answer is nothing, then you are relying on luck to be given a job. Not saying there is anything wrong with that. People win 4D after all.

Plus Soony a couple of threads later on (see below) managed to secure a job. Perhaps you can ask him/her nicely how he/she did it? What industry? What he/she think made him/her different? Did soony only target small businesses? Did he/she network a lot?  Another question might be, out of all his/her Malaysian friends who tried to stay after graduating, how many succeeded? I said 1 out of 200 based on my fiend ship group. Maybe his stats are like 9 out of 10.
*
I wouldn't say I've given up. I'm still going there next year to complete my studies, that's never been a question. Staying seems like a f***ing lottery, that's all. Maybe I can get family friends to hire me. It's a stretch but it's at least something. Or maybe I can do an internship somewhere and hopefully they'll hire me full time. But still a stretch because as a company, I wouldn't want to go thru all that visa crap just to hire me unless I'm "special".

Academically and experience wise, there's always someone better or skilled, so basically no one is special (local or immigrant).

So the only way I see that'll make me desirable is have the same/higher level of skill as the other applicants but willing to work harder / longer hours / cheaper? And hope in the end, your employer won't f*** you over? On top of the rest of the stuff you're supposed to do (networking all that other bullcrap).
frega
post Dec 1 2013, 01:34 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(robertchoo @ Nov 30 2013, 08:34 PM)
1. If you're going there to study for less than 2 years, chances are you will fail the points test. I think the min to score points is 2 years of full time underfraduate/postgrad studies in Australia.
2. Like you say unless you get a relative to hire you, your chances to secure a job is near zero without a PR. Sure people do strike lottery. But you want to risk going to Australia without a PR and without a job? How much money do you have to burn? You can't even work part time without a PR.
3. Over and beyond that, you might find that at the end is it really worth it?
Sure, Australia do have a peaceful and good work life balance, great outdoors, good weather and good place to bring up a family. But it is also expensive. Rising cost of living and property prices, Taxes, medicare and insurance are a killer. Most people only earn enough to get by and you will definately suffer a lower standard of living compared to say Singapore - for starters eating out everyday lunch/dinner is out of the question in Australia. Most people doggie bag from home. 
4. There are always alternatives like Singapore. Its safe, cost of living is much much cheaper than Australia, and income taxes are negligable. The only downside is expensive property prices (but you can always get a sub SGD300k HDB is Jurong or Woodlands) and expensive vehicles (not needed in my opinion. MRT, busses and taxis run islandwide. One of the cheaperst public transportation in the world especially if you compare them with Australia (!))
*
1. I've already studied 1+ years there, but I didn't finish. I'm going back to finish it for another 1 year.

2. I'm going there to study then only hope to find a job. I can always come back to msia.

3. I don't know what'll happen tbh. I probably won't get a job so everything is moot. But if I do I will try to make the best of it. Taxes hmm, I'm not sure how taxes work there. I know I don't make enough to pay any here, or maybe I do but I haven't been paying.

I feel like my future is dead (not financially) here. I don't see my life changing at all here, because its safe. I need to force myself to be outside of the comfort zone and try to forge a different life / identity. Sorry if I sound silly.

4. Sg is way too competitive.
frega
post Dec 1 2013, 01:38 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(robertchoo @ Nov 30 2013, 10:59 PM)
To add on, Singapore is one of the most metritocratic country in the world. The same cannot be said of Australia. Past a certain point in your career, your chances of moving up is practically nil if you're an Asian in appearance (you could speak like them and even grow up in Australia dosen't matter). I'm NOT saying there are absolutely NO Asian holding senior post in Australian company. I'm saying there are very very very few. Most of the time the senior management are all aussies what's more the CEO.

According to them, they say its to project an image and values of Australia by appointing Australians in Australia companies. I say its just a spin to institutionalise racism just like how Malaysia is doing the same with Bumi in GLCs.

In Singapore, if you are good, you will climb to the top. For example, the CEO for DBS Bank is a former Indian National. OCBC used to be helmed by David Conner - ang moh and is curretly helmed by Sam Tsien - HK. So goes for many GLCs in Singapore. Race is just not an issue.
*
I don't think everyone's aim is to make a ton of money.

I think most people just want to find a job they enjoy, and live comfortably (within reason). I know I do.
frega
post Dec 3 2013, 04:26 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
396 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
QUOTE(Nemesis1980 @ Dec 3 2013, 10:51 AM)
For accounting, there's huge surplus now jobless. The reason is too many ppl migrating in based on account profession.
You could try sydney or melbourne but there's huge competitive in those places coz everyone like to go there.
The reason i leave sydney is becoz i totally tired of city life. Sydney = KL.
Sydney would be cleaner of course. but it's a fast pace lifestyle. Perth is totally different world from eastern states. That's y it suits me.
Well, you have to ask yourself what sort of lifestyle you want. Or else you'll be miserable and complaining everyday smile.gif
*
Is Melb as fast paced? I mean, I'm sure there's work outside of the city. I bet it's cheaper to have offices outside of the city center. Hell, I used to only go into the city in Melb to jalanx2 with friends.

Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0645sec    0.41    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 22nd December 2025 - 03:39 AM