Hello All,

First time poster. Long time reader. I hope to share some insight into the Australian job market having lived here basically my whole life. I think perhaps by sharing my story and observations, you all can get some learnings from it.

Allow me to briefly introduce my background. My family migrated from Malaysia to Australia (Melbourne) back in the 1980’s when I was about 6 (we obtained PR). I spent my whole life growing up in Australia, though I have retained my Malaysian citizenship as I hope to come back to Malaysia one day (but that is best left for another thread of Malaysians who want to come home). For all intents and purposes however, I am more or less Australian (Malaysian however by choice and identity).

My dad, a qualified electrical engineer struggled to get a job here. He was making $300k p.a. back in the late 80’s, but gave it all up for us (his children) to come to Australia. And for that I am eternally grateful. He applied for every job under the sun when he got here, including that as a simple tram driver. But after two years of trying, he had to leave us and come home to KL to not be a financial burden on the family and start generating income so that we could survive here. Again, I can never repay this emotional debt. He travelled back and forth between Australia and KL until he retired in 2005. I basically grew up without a dad during my teenage years, but I tried to spend as much summers with him as I could. It was very tough on him to be away from his family all these years – tough on us all.

My mother on the other hand had somewhat more luck. She was a math teacher at Taylor’s College in KL. She managed to get a job with Taylor’s college here in Melbourne as the Principal in KL wrote her a sterling recommendation. She taught until she was 67 (two years post the mandatory retirement age)

As for me, I went to high school and university in Melbourne (and eventually the US too), and became a business consultant. Throughout my time at university, I have seen many Malaysians try and stay after studying. Out of the hundreds of Malaysians I befriended, only one girl managed to successfully get a job here after studying. Her sole point of differentiation? She basically spoke like an Australian. When she came here at 18 to study at Uni, she made it a point to associate with the locals only and to lose her accent. Truth be told when I first spoke with her, I didn't even know she was Malaysian, she had absolutely no accent. What’s the lesson? People like people like themselves. Australian’s want to hire Australian’s (don’t confuse this with skin colour). Hiring is more than just finding someone who can get the job done, the market is that competitive that a lot of people can get the job done. It’s about hiring someone who they can have a beer with at the end of the day, that can talk about cricket and footy (no, not Man U v Arsenal, I am talking about bulldogs v freo). All Asians face this cultural barrier. Start learning about Aussie sports and slang and throw that into the conversation. One of my key development goals my boss and I agreed to, was to get into Australian Football because the clients loved talking about it.

Lesson 2. I kept my anglicized Chinese name for a very long time – even into the first 2 years of my working career. When I switched companies, I decided adopt an English Alias. Why? The Aussies could never remember my name! If someone can’t remember your name, how can they address you besides the Asian guy, or even at all? Now I am guilty of this as well. I will remember an English name far easier than I will remember a Chinese name. It is not because the people here are racist. It is because the people here grew up learning English and hence English names are easier to remember. To you an Eng Dih is probably easier to remember than an Eddy. But to us, an Eddy is easier to remember and pronounce than Eng Dih. If you apply for jobs, use an English alias. It is not illegal to do so. Remember lesson one, they want to hire people like them. Being Malaysian, is not a point of differentiation that will get you in.

Lesson 3. People anchor to known quantities. If you are an accountant, people know a PwC, but they wont know Wong, Mohammed and Co. Point is, if you come here make sure you highlight brands. Also, overseas work experience, except for that gained in say Europe or America, is generally looked down upon. Just as Malaysian companies will prefer someone with local experience. No different here. You are at a distinct disadvantage if all you have is Malaysian experience. Emphasize brands and international experience if you have it.

Apologies for the long post. Hoping those lessons will give you some insight into working in Australia. I am happy to answer questions.

Max

Thank you Max. Very insightful info.

But I've been and seen that. Many people hate HR because of that.

My perception of Australia right now, is that it is coming to grasp with managing a slowing economy. The boom from resources has dissipated as a consequence of China, and the rest of the world slowing. We were never going to be insulated from the macro economy forever. Compounding this slow down is a lack of depreciation of the AUD which traditionally is positively correlated with resources. This is accordingly hurting our export trade, and even our retail (everyone is still buying goods from overseas). The governor of the RBA has indicated an open mind to depreciating the currency, but he has been saying this for quite some time.

Nothing is really growing in Australia sector wise, except housing, but that is largely all pricing as opposed to volume (i.e. building houses). Think given all this, it would be incredibly difficult to come here and secure a job that is commensurate with your education and experiences. My advice if you come is to seek an internal transfer with your company, assuming you are at a MNC. Beyond that, you need to tap any networks you have here. The market is exceptionally competitive right now, you need to use whatever advantages you have.

The government lacks a long term strategy for the country, which Malaysia has (but is arguably struggling to implement). Further, the people are insular and aren't especially welcoming of immigrants compared to the US, and that will only add to their cost of living as the country ages and productivity approaches steady state; essentially the younger generation has to contend with footing the bill for the welfare of the boomer generation (read, much higher taxes).

Overall, great place to come and raise your kids if you have the opportunity (and assuming you cant go to the US, where I believe there is more opportunity for a Malaysian, larger Market, more welcoming of skilled immigrants - they only hate Mexicans/south americans who ironically are doing all the dirty work they dont want to do). But if you want to get rich, you really need to look East. The whole world is trying to pivot to Asia, as am I.

This post has been edited by maxmillion: Nov 24 2013, 08:53 PM

agree with you maxmillion... Asia is the next big thing undoubtedly...with Japanese Abenomics declaring "Im coming back!" ...Asia might take a full swing soon... but im still abit apprehensive bout the bullishness of asia emerging markets bcos of tapering... i think Aus didnt escaped the resource curse experienced by most countries too... they harp on too much hope and expectation on the commodities bull run, that's why they are in pain now since china is slowing down and trying to internalize their growth.. Most countries do experience that....In fact, i think Aus should have prepared for the future...but mining is mining...dont you think it will rebound again in 5-10 years time since its cyclical? I mean its a boom-bust thing....and the mining industry does not depend on China alone.

I do believe in cycles. Assets age and have to be replaced. Once the world has deleveraged, it will likely re-leverage again - debt is a great thing if you manage it well. The question is how long till the next uptick? And what can the country do to pass time. Specifically, everything that has formed as a consequence of the mining boom i.e. pulling a generation of youths out of universities for the mines, focusing our investments on resource linked infrastructure as opposed to other kinds of investments (e.g. STEM and innovation), you can argue that will take some time to reallocate using free market forces. We have to contend with this generation which has no white collared skills, but no blue collar industries to fall back on (no housing, no manufacturing).

There just isn't a clear answer from the federal government about something like this. They're still managing the day to day hot topics which the average person cares about, but has no long term strategic value e.g. boat people (i.e. derogatory term of asylum seekers), same sex marriages, being a republic...Those in power lack the discipline to plan for the future, likely as a consequence of the constraints of being in power i.e. 4 year terms. If you tell people they need to save money or work until they're 70 (like they are now) guess what the response will be? They'll throw you out of power until you give them what they want. This is when democracy fails, when the people are too ignorant to appreciate the vision. Climate change? No, we don't want that. Too expensive. We're a small country.

On things that could potentially matter, like the new broadband network, which is an enabler of a more connected society, the government decides to stall the plans of the previous government (see first argument about lack of discipline; second complementary problem is that there is no bipartisanship in constructing a vision for this country) Just as mobile phones lifted a generation out of poverty in Africa, and access to the internet brought about a credible opposition in Malaysia, I believe this technological platform will enable outcomes which I am yet to fathom - perhaps by plugging everyone into a faster network, new types of services will develop, from which we can serve the globe. This isnt just about faster DOTA gaming or youtube. It is an enabler for a smart economy. Suppose you don't build the network, what are our alternative plans laid out for investment? I see none presented. Only more money going into flippin welfare programs which comes from ever increasing taxes (a new report by a public policy think tank just recommended extending GST to everything including fresh food and education...). America you can argue faces many parallels to Australia in terms of social challenges, but the one lever it can pull to fix a lot of problem, which Australia doesnt (and never will) want to pull is immigration.

The short of the long is, this country is in a long-term decline. Not my generation or the next generation. But come a hundred years time, this may no longer be a first world country.

wow...that is a serious statement man...in fact, i'd think Australia can weather through this tough times, its a matter of how long... BTw, you have any idea the prospect of geologist/geophysicist in aus? not referring to mining industry...talking interms of general( O & G, construction, shale, coal seam gas etc etc)

Australia will be fine for the next 10-20 years. I'm talking really long term stuff no one really cares about until it's too late.

As for your question about geologists/geophycisits, unfortunately this is not my area of expertise.

But I will refer you to the following resources

1. SEEK - basically the Australian jobstreet

http://www.seek.com.au/ - Search for geologist and you can get a feel for the pulse of the market in your respective areas. I do it often to gauge the strength of the business consulting market

2. Whirlpool (specifically the jobs section)

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/135

This should give you an idea of the jobs market in Australia. If you wish to post, be thick skinned. A lot of replies you will view as negative and unwelcoming e.g. stay home, dont come no jobs, etc. It is grounded in truth but if you are sensitive, you may not appreciate the tone of the replies

I am surprise you did not included geopolitics. just look at China Japan recent row. If you think both have too much at stake to let things get out of hand better think again. Doesn't xenophobia and nationalism goes hand in hand esp amongst Asians???

Mining is mining?? Depends on what type of minerals. Aluminium can be recycled indefinitely and bauxite mining doesn't looks that bright. Potash??? Prices are sinking and a Russian producer broke rank with the potash cartel several months ago. Why prices are sinking??? Over production???? Saw an interesting news article weeks ago. Thanks to UBC research, nutrients can now be recovered from waste water. Many municipal across north America are using the technology to clean the waste water and are selling the recovered nutrients to fertilizers producers. Potash mining looks pretty bleak to me in the coming years

Boy you are pretty myopic. Looks what happening in Europe and North America. A boat load of Sikhs washed ashore in Canada during the 80's the gov't of the day did nothing and the country paid the price. Seen as a soft spot, the asylum seeking floodgate opened. Once landed ashore and utter the R word, one is entitled to welfare, health and dental care. the smart ones can get education/ skill training allowance so if they are accepted as refugees, they can be a 'productive member' of society. On average it takes 3 to 5 yrs to determine if a person case is genuine. The smart ones will use the legal system and drag on with almost endless appeals The most extreme cases that I heard of were it took 15 to 17 years before the gov't finally boot them out. I am sure you can do the math how much gov't spend on refugee claimants. No long tern strategic value???

Respectfully if you wish to have a debate, I would appreciate you not using condescending language ie. "boy". I am an educated adult just as you are, and we were both raised to be respectful I am assuming. I will not use labels and stereotype, and I am hoping this courtesy is reciporcated.

As to your point of contention, I respond with hard numbers

http://www.factsfightback.org.au/does-aust...heck-the-facts/

I believe it has no long term strategic value, becuase the volumes we are talking about are relatively small.

Further from your response, it would appear you are highly insular in your views on refugees. Whereas I tend to be more compassionate. We are a lucky country, and have been given much. We should be able to share. But I understand this is a deeply personal issue. So I wont debate the merits of refugees and to what degree we should help. My views are shaped by the environment I was brought up in, which are obviously very different to the environment in Malaysia.

One could also argue that the issues of importance in your portfolio if you were to run government, are vastly different to my portfolio of issues. There are no right answers, only opinions. I have expressed mine and you have expressed your god given right to disagree, which I respect. I can totally appreciate where you are coming from.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/13/...N0H927C20130913

<< In October, gas importers in Japan and Korea will pay more than $15 per million British thermal units for shipments of liquefied natural gas (LNG), compared with under $10 for importers in Britain and less than $4 for importers in the United States, according to the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.>>

<< Costs would range from $6 to $10 per million British thermal units, depending on how much the gas could be bought for originally and the project's assumed rate of return, according to Attanasi and Freeman ("Commercial possibilities for stranded conventional gas from Alaska's North Slope" June 2013).>>

maxmillion,

Australia and Malaysia are the 2 largest Natural Gas Exporter to South Korea and Japan. In the near term, Natural Gas export from USA will impact both countries.

If you are interested in geopolitic stuff, I highly recommend that you check out www.stratfor.com .
Dreamer

Thank you Dreamer I will do so.

I must also apologize to all for dragging politics into this discussion. It was not my intention to so strongly express my views - and I will refrain from doing so from now.

I am here to help out with questions about working in Australia.

yes mining is cyclical but as long as australia does not find a cost effective way to compete against the other countries they are doomed. Automation is one option but that also means more jobless aussies. Wages will also be supressed going forwards otherwise they just cannot compete in this globalised world!

And australia does not have monopoly of coal in this world. There is brazil, africa which produces the same quality of coal as australia at a fraction of a cost.

your pessimistic views made me have second thoughts of coming to Aust. LOL It is funny that wages is Malaysia is too cheap that it becomes a problem, whereas it is the opposite in Aust.

thank you for the link

Have you factor in shipping cost?? Hope you realized that it is a 'killer'. The company I am with does not make product and shipped it around the world. It license rights to other companies in Oz China Malaysia Columbia and Ecuador. Why???Because shipping cost is prohibitive said the company CEO. Oz is much closer to Asia and whatever cost advantage Brazil /South Africa has, shipping cost put them at a disadvantage
Think I am making this up??? Do you know American companies are moving operations back to US or Mexico??? One of the reason cited is shipping cost. Google US companies moving operation back to US. Thanks to the high oil price which means high shipping cost, whatever cost advantage China and Asia used to have is gone

I don't think shipping will cost AUD150k a year, the kind of wages paid to a ONE truck driver in Australia, for example (as compared to <AUD3k per year paid to an african for the transport of coal) or for the mass of people working the mines.

By the way, if you look at the freight rates, its currently surpressed.

This post has been edited by robertchoo: Nov 27 2013, 08:38 PM

This is getting me down. I was planning to resume my studies in Aus (I have maybe a year left) next year. Then try to stay there and find work. Is that not advisable? I already have some working experience locally in programming, which I hoped will aid me as Software Dev is in the SoL list.

I can't say I identify myself like an Aussie, more American? It was my dream to migrate there but I think it might not out of reach / impossible. Aus was always the 2nd / viable option.

I did not integrate well back then during my younger years studying there, I was a dumbass teenager. But I was planning to make an effort to mix with locals this time around. But Aussie footie? Eww, I'm a nerd. And the accent, I am able to pull up a pseudo American accent, aussie is a bit tough.

Max, do you think I should give up? I haven't been more excited to return to Aus. Maybe I shouldn't expect so much...

Buy this book

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ralia-good-meh/