Welcome to V48!!!!!!!!!

Previous thread (V47)>>>HERE<<<
Previous thread (V46)>>>HERE<<<
Previous thread (V45)>>>HERE<<<
Previous thread (V44)>>>HERE<<<



Sony Alpha User List :

A100

A200

A300

A350

A700

A900

New Sony Alpha Line-up Userlist

A230

A330

A380

A390

A500

A550

A580

A850

A55

p.m. me if you wanna add ur name

>>>Sony Alpha F.A.Q<<< courtesy of Ahmike

Common Kelvin White Balance Settings :
2500K - very strong orange tungsten light
2800K - strong orange tungsten light
3200K - yellowish tungsten light
4500K M6 - flourescent light (most flourescent tubes are green even though our eyes don't see it)
5500K - flash
6500K - daylight (or daylight-balanced flourescent light)
9900K - strong blue stage lighting or evening light

Xenon lighting is rare but that should be between 7000-9000K.

Whenever you enter a new situation that has different WB, just set your Kelvin WB again and test with one shot. You

should be able to do this with practice.

With the Sony A300 and A350, you can use Live View and see the effect of changing Kelvin WB... live!

M = Magenta
G = Green
2500K = Blue
9900K = Amber

Take a picture. Supposing the picture is very Green, you need to add the opposite which is Magenta. If the picture is

too Blue you need to go closer to Amber. So if the picture is very blue-green-ish, you will need to go closer to 9900K

M9.

To prevent the built-in flash from appearing in pictures when in wireless flash mode, you can use any of these

methods, or a combination of them:

- use a darker aperture (e.g. F11)
- use a lower ISO (e.g. ISO100)
- use a shutter speed faster than your flash sync speed so that High Speed Sync is activated (e.g. 1/320th of a

second)
- use a piece of exposed, developed negative film in front of your pop-up flash

Sony Alpha Lens Line-up : HERE courtesy of vcxv

Below are the official additional accessories* that comes with respective Sony Alpha camera :

Flash hotshoe cover (Sony FASHC1AM) - A100, A700, A900
Remote Commander clip - A100, A200, A300, A350, A700, A900
Eyepiece cover / flash hotshoe cover holder - A100, A200, A300, A350, A700
Cheap Sony neckstrap - A200, A300, A350
Good Sony neckstrap - A100, A700, A900
Wireless Infrared Remote Control - A700, A900

* list provided by albnok

Sony Alpha Support Page and Alpha User Manuals :



How to clean your Alpha sensor by albnok :



This post has been edited by amadeo: Dec 16 2010, 12:31 PM

as usual, Alpha users who wants the userbar..

Imageshack was unable to recover A200, A300, A350 & A700 userbars and as a result, new userbars were uploaded.. Those using the userbar, please update your URL..

A100 : image url : http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2687/alpha100cb9.png

A200 : image url : http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1922/a200.png

A300 :
image url : http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2802/a300.png

A350 :
image url : http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3761/a350.png

A700 :
image url : http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7245/a700.png

A900 :
image url : http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5185/alpha900wp4.png

New Alpha line-up userbar

A230 :
image url : http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8318/a230.png

A330 :
image url : http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4850/a330.png

A380 :
image url : http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4733/a380.png

A390 :
image url : http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5741/a390.png

A550 :
image url : http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2650/a550.png

A850 :
image url : http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8928/a850.png


Some useful link :

Tamron/Sigma/Sony/Minolta 70-200mm F2.8 Shootout
http://www.glaringnotebook.com/default.asp?id=1243

Ultra Wide Comparison
http://www.glaringnotebook.com/default.asp?id=1324

This post has been edited by amadeo: Dec 16 2010, 12:56 PM

Alpha street pricelist ***updated 18th October 2010*** Courtesy of Master Albnok

Camera
---------
Sony A230 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM14xx
Sony A290 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM14xx
Sony A330 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM18xx
Sony A380 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM20xx
Sony A380 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM + 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT SAM = RM24xx
Sony A390 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM17xx
Sony A33 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM21xx
Sony A33 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM + 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT SAM = RM23xx
Sony A500 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM + 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT SAM = RM31xx
Sony A550 body only = RM21xx
Sony A550 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM21xx
Sony A550 + 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DT = RM40xx
Sony A580 body only = RM24xx
Sony A580 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM27xx
Sony A55 body only + 8GB MSPD HX = RM21xx
Sony A55 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM = RM25xx
Sony A55 + 50mm F1.8 DT SAM = RM26xx (Studio Zaloon)
Sony A55 + 16-105mm F3.5-5.6 DT = RM37xx (Studio Zaloon)
Sony A700 + 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 DT = RM33xx
Sony A850 body only = RM61xx
Sony A900 body only = RM73xx (Studio Zaloon)
Sony NEX-3 + 16mm F2.8 = RM16xx
Sony NEX-3 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS = RM18xx
Sony NEX-3 + 16mm F2.8 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS = RM22xx
Sony NEX-5 + 16mm F2.8 = RM21xx
Sony NEX-5 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS = RM22xx
Sony NEX-5 + 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS + 4GB MSPD = RM23xx
Sony NEX-5 + 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 Active OSS + 8GB MSPD + LCD protector = RM32xx

The following suffixes identify what lens comes with the camera body:

G = Sony 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DT
K = Sony 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 DT
L = Sony 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM
P = Sony 16-105mm F3.5-5.6 DT
Q = Sony 28-75mm F2.8 SAM
W = Sony 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 DT + Sony 75-300mm F4.5-5.6
X = Sony 18-70mm F3.5-5.6 DT + Sony 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT
Y = Sony 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 DT SAM + Sony 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT (2) SAM
Z = Sony Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 DT ZA

For Sony NEX bodies:

A = Sony E 16mm F2.8 pancake
D = Sony E 16mm F2.8 pancake + Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
H = Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 Active OSS
K = Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS

Battery Grip
---------------
Sony VG-B30AM for A200/A300/A350 = RM6xx
Sony VG-B50AM for A450/A500/A550/A560/A580 = RM6xx
Sony VG-C70AM for A700 = RM9xx
Sony VG-C90AM for A850/A900 = RM9xx


Battery
----------
Sony NP-FH50 battery for A230/A290/A330/A380/A390 = RM2xx
Sony NP-FW50 battery for NEX-3/NEX-5/A33/A55 = RM2xx
Sony NP-FM500H battery for A100/A200/A300/A350/A450/A500/A550/A560/A580/A700/A850/A900 = RM2xx

Flash
------
Sony HVL-F20AM = RM4xx
Sony HVL-F42AM = RM7xx
Sony HVL-F58AM = RM11xx

Sony/Minolta Used Lenses
------------------------------
Minolta 28mm F2.8 = RM450-600
Minolta 35-70 F4 (mini beercan) = RM250-400
Minolta 50mm F1.4 = RM750-850
Minolta 50mm F1.7 = RM450-600
Sony 55-200mm F4-5.6 DT = RM450-550
Minolta 70-210mm F4 (beercan) = RM750-1100
Minolta 75-300mm F4.5-5.6 (big beercan) = RM1000-1500
Sony 75-300mm F4.5-5.6 = RM450-550

New APS-C / DT Crop Lenses
-------------------------------

Sony 11-18mm F4.5-5.6 DT = RM20xx
Sony Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 DT ZA = RM25xx
Sony 16-105mm F3.5-5.6 DT = RM16xx
Sony 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DT = RM16xx
Sony 30mm F2.8 DT SAM Macro = RM7xx
Sony 50mm F1.8 DT SAM = RM5xx
Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 EX DC HSM Macro = RM30xx
Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 Active OSS = RM21xx

New Full-Frame Lenses
---------------------------

Sony 16mm F2.8 Diagonal Fisheye = RM25xx
Sony 20mm F2.8 = RM19xx
Sony Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 16-35mm F2.8 SSM ZA = RM54xx
Sony Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 24-70mm F2.8 SSM ZA = RM54xx
Sony 24-105mm F3.5-4.5 = RM18xx
Sony 28mm F2.8 = RM8xx
Sony 28-75mm F2.8 SAM = RM26xx
Sony 35mm F1.4G = RM45xx
Sony 50mm F1.4 = RM10xx
Sony 50mm F2.8 Macro = RM14xx
Tamron 70-200mm F2.8 Macro = RM30xx
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Macro = RM38xx
Sony 70-200mm F2.8G SSM = RM54xx
Sony 70-300mm F4.5-5.6G SSM = RM25xx
Sony 70-400mm F4-5.6G SSM = RM54xx
Sony Carl Zeiss Planar T* 85mm F1.4 ZA = RM50xx
Sony 100mm F2.8 Macro = RM23xx
Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 135mm F1.8 ZA = RM48xx
Sony 135mm F2.8/T4.5 Smooth Transition Focus = RM36xx
Sony 500mm F8.0 AF Reflex = RM25xx
Sony 300mm F2.8G SSM = RM20xxx
Sony 1.4x Teleconverter = RM15xx
Sony 2.0x Teleconverter = RM15xx
Sony LA-EA1 lens adapter = RM5xx
Sony VCL-ECF1 fisheye adapter = RM3xx

i think u can start to put user for a580 liao..

I think the can delete the NEX user list since there's a NEX dedicated thread now..

Anyways, does anyone read Air Gear Manga??? Haha, surprisingly a NEX-VG10 was used inside! Even writes E-Mount on it..

http://www.mangareader.net/137-58369-15/ai...hapter-293.html

this page?

wow, so fast got comic writer fans? muahahaha

Japanese are uptodate mah hahaha..
furthermore.. Sony's their own.. so its like promote2 liao..

This post has been edited by freddy manson: Nov 14 2010, 12:05 AM

Hey guys, I've just started my interest in photography having owned a few PNS cameras before this. I bought a black Sony NEX-3A (with 16mm f2.8 lens) last Wednesday in good faith as I thought the shop has a good reputation among locals here. To my dismay when I returned home, and as I was looking at the box, I found a sticker which states "demo body + flash". I thought nothing serious about that until I used the camera for the first time today and when I transferred the photos to the computer, I noticed that the first photo numbering is 5883, and not 0001 unlike other new cameras which I owned before this.

Does that mean that the shutter count has reached 5883, and that 5882 photos were taken before my usage? And it's not a "completely whole new camera"? And if so, I wonder if I could lodge a complaint against the place and consider returning the camera and obtain a full refund if I could? I'm a noob in photography, hence would appreciate all advices given by you guys. Many thanks in advance!

come to think of it... 18-70 will not be in any future production... does that mean the 1870 will be limited edition now? (since the production life is only 2/3 years) and it would be the best cheapest and great range kitlens ever from sony?

i think you should go back to the shop to clarify this... if all else fails, then you can lodge a complain to the 'jabatan/lembaga pengguna' or something.. provided you paid the full price for it, and not a highly discounted price

Thanks lwliam! =) I called the shop owner just now (lol I know it's a weird time but he gave me his hp and asked me to contact him if there's anything) so I thought it's better I called him once I discovered this. He even had the courage to ask why I had this thought that it's not a brand new camera and when I told him about the shutter count thingy, he said his staff may have made a mistake and asked me to return to his shop tomorrow to change. I hope he's wiling to change. >.< And yes, I paid the full price of it without a single discount!

its a good thing that he acknowledge the mistake. do bring it back for a full change of set, and make sure the "demo body" sticker is not removed

I know this doesnt belongs here.. but yea... haha

Anyone interested in a Sony A550 Body ??

Brand New Set. Selling fast at RM1,850.

Cheers

Kamen Rider

Kiva emperor form..nice 1 e-jump..

Wait, I have to rephrase what he said...he asked me to bring it back so he can have a look cos his staff may have made a mistake. He did not mention about changing it. Lol...I surely hope he'll change after seeing it else I'll complain will not remove all the evidences for sure! Thank you for your advise

ahpingko: Sorry to hear about your loss.

Mikeshashimi: No lah that was a mock design by someone else.

lwliam: Great shot!

kopitiam: All Minolta AF lenses are full-frame, except the Konica Minolta lenses with the DT suffix, or Minolta Vectis lenses.

albnok: yeah i know it was a mock design... but mock designs are always fun to look at.

first of all, WELCOME TO THE ALPHANATICS CRAZE-NESS..
now, i think that u should take some pics of the items side by side with the receipt..
and show the part where the serial number of the camera body is (usually at the bottom of the camera body)
and side-by-side with the warranty card/receipt..

if IT IS a mistake then sure they have to change it for you, but of the taukey cincong2 talk bu11shit then, lodge a complaint to the jabatan Hal Ehwal Pengguna.. biar itu kedai kena serbu ha ha ha

our haul king..er prince.. kul | m0o is selling his precious
go grab em!

This post has been edited by freddy manson: Nov 14 2010, 08:09 AM

TT yesterday

<click to see larger>

last time also got someone report about this.. is it ur using the old card which maybe continue the numbering from it?
don't the box sealed or something?

Thats scary yo.. Demo sets.. Kena molest by many ppl before.

not so-muc-of-a-'virgin' anymore.. :sigh:

Not so. It's totally not virgin.
Better return back to the shop and snap some pics before hand as evidence.

@ albnok, minolta vectis lens can use on sony dslr?

cannot use on alpha... diff mount

---

Added on November 14, 2010, 2:04 pm2nd test went well... my 3rd party FW50 pass the test for SLT-A33

This post has been edited by cjlai: Nov 14 2010, 02:04 PM

Guy i tomorrow going to HK and i will bring my a55 should i bring my F42 aswell?

macro....

awesome. got attach raynox? using ring flash?

Thanks bro. Glad you liked it. Will clean/post more once back to my.
shooting w 85mm at events, i learnt it the hard way

not yet add in raynox... just normal macro lens + f58

bring laa.. better to have it when you dont need it than to dont have it when u need it

cool cantik

dont forget tripod, u need it in avenue of stars

Haha!

I guess it has nothing wrong with ISO and shutter speed. I set my camera for Auto Exposure. So it should select correct shutter speed/ISO for me. If I use 1/2000 f2.8 and 1/1000 f4.0 at ISO 200, both should produce the same brightness of photos but it is not. Hmm...

Meh, new member here.... Am confuse... I didn't get a bag as freebie... So how to carry out my cam out? If I buy a bag, how to put it into the bag? Lol.. Nid separate the lens and body? I thought it will be nt gud for the body if keep separate the lens? Lol,,, totally newbie in dslr and picked Sony as my 1st.

do u go out much with ur camera? --> of course, haha.... then a bag is essential.

how to put in the bag? ---> depends what you're gonna put inside the bag (amount of lenses/bodies/accessories).

i think most people just leave 1 lens attached to the body at all times.

Oo... Nah, I am nt those professional, I only got a 18-70 lens which is attached to body.... But it seems too long to be fit in any bag.. Any nice bag to intro? Yes, I walk and travel a lot... Lol

Thx for the guidance.. Total newbie here

its not really 'healthy' for ur camera body if u keep attaching and removing the lense(s) from it..
just stick the lens in it.. and put it with the lens pointing front/left/right.. not pointing downwards/backwards.. pointing up is okay also i guess

Hi tplus1, welcome to the Orange Legion!

Basic camera bags will allow you to carry 1 dslr with a lens attached, trust me, 18-70mm kit is not that long. Normally I just put my camera inside a normal backpack with its lens attaced and bring it around but I guess a proper camera bag is essential as they have paddings which protect your camera even if the bag suffers from a fall. You can have a look at brands such as Bagman, Crumpler, lowpro to name a few or you could opt for "brandless" camera bags.

This post has been edited by yuhi: Nov 14 2010, 08:07 PM

woob..
thx for all the help!

think i need a bag..

but i got too much stuff in my bag... 15.6" lappy, ipad, book, now a DSLR instead a compact! LOL!!!!!!! ditching my laptop on next outing..

those crumplers 5MDH or stuff right?

*hunting*

woah ipad... haha...surely will get more lenses sooner rather than later... haha.

choosing a bag really depends on what you're gonna bring out. Lets say u NEED to bring ur laptop/ipad together with ur camera then u definitely need one with a laptop compartment.

a cheaper alternative to the 5MDH or rather 7MDH is the Bagman Sling Bag (large). or you can try the Driftwood Series which is really cheap but offers really good padding IMO.

woob, i gonna make my laptop desktop just like wht i did this few months,

haha.. so any recommended bag? O.O

i didnt see any thread of bags for DsLR T.T

hmm, bagman huh, wheres the official shop? liike i know crumpler got two, KLCC and pavillion, i never really notice there is a bagman brand

with your 'gear' just being the kitlens with the body, Id suggest something smaller (maybe to fit a body + lens, 1 more lens and a flash)... Crumpler's 5MDH would be a great choice for a more casual look. Lowepro gives a more professional look IMO. this is of course provided you have the budget...

a crumpler can cost up to as much as rm300-500 depending on model, but the bagman (same size as 7MDH) cost only rm165. so the amount of money you are willing to spend on a bag also plays a part in choosing a bag.

woobkay.. thx for the detailed explain~ really thx~ just the help i need to enter DSLR world, lol..

will try eyeing on sales thread, but i notice u selling a bagman sling bag, lol

can it fit an ipad into it?

lol. of course it can fit the ipad bro but theres no dedicated sleeve/compartment for an ipad (means u just chuck it in)...
but the current driftwood bag that im using has a zip'ed compartment which i think would fit an ipad.
search for 'driftwood' in garage sale "photography accessories" section.

@tplus1 - Crumpler is the way 2 go XD But it cost a bit more than normal since its branded lol. Crumpler 6 million, any1?

woob, thx, big thx, hunting now, XD

will need some other guidance next time, XD

Welcome to the "pokai" club lol.. You will be spending wayyyyy more soon anyways XD

Generally, beercan ranges around 7xx at market right? gonna find one and test it out 1st b4 anything xD

Generally, beercan ranges around 7xx at market right? gonna find one and test it out 1st b4 anything xD

[/quote]

agree wif da term pokai club! alwayz looks for gadgets! Or alwayz go here and der take photo... petrol dy can kill u... but i never regret

Where to join as pokai club member?? lol

Pipit Market 4th Anniversary

Lol yea. Sadly photography is an expensive hobby. I'm starting to feel the pinch already since I'm still studying ~.~

Enlist yourself here XD

Get a Zeiss, and confirm you can enter the club as an honorable member dy XD

Wondering when I'll get my own Zeiss also >">

beercan ranges around 700-850 depending on the cosmetic and glass condition.

Enlist yourself here XD

Get a Zeiss, and confirm you can enter the club as an honorable member dy XD

Wondering when I'll get my own Zeiss also >">

[/quote]

Then i think i m elligible edi.. lol. I m using CZ 16-80

[quote=aureliux,Nov 14 2010, 10:17 PM]
Enlist yourself here XD

Get a Zeiss, and confirm you can enter the club as an honorable member dy XD

Wondering when I'll get my own Zeiss also >">

[/quote]

Then i think i m elligible edi.. lol. I m using CZ 16-80

[/quote]

YES U AR ENLISTED HERE... WAIT ME TO JOIN U K? HEE

get a CARL ZEISS JENA TESSAR 50/2.8 m42 lens

wa.... lately so many wanna haul CZ huh? all rich ad... haha....

from yesterday sony nex outing:

[quote=Sakurako,Nov 14 2010, 10:24 PM]
Then i think i m elligible edi.. lol. I m using CZ 16-80

[/quote]

YES U AR ENLISTED HERE... WAIT ME TO JOIN U K? HEE

[/quote]

Quick quick!! i wait for you here k?!!

Sig: nice.. i love #1... and i like #3 but with less saturation...

syaz1, using which lens?

This post has been edited by kopitiam: Nov 14 2010, 11:24 PM

Signither: I love 3 4 and 5. No.3 would make a great wallpaper. Haha! Like Kai from digital Rev always says "Bokehlicious" Yum!

thanks

all using pancake 16mm f/2.8, except for no 4 using nikkor 135mm f/2.8.

thanks

sig: composition of 1,3 well utilised leading lines. nice. #5 is special, especially the rainbow u created.

nice on the raiinbow one..... from nex or alpha???
anyone know any good cheapo seller for sigma's?? wanna go grab the 24-70 f2.8 lens already

i like this..a nice way to play bokeh!!!

sig sekarang jadi nex user boh~
hahaha lastime alpha user..
selling all alpha to go for nex..

no regret eh sig?

sig - love 2,3, and 5..especially 2..brings out the atmosphere..
and num 5 is pretty special.mind sharing some tips..

Return of the Macau pic spam!!

1. The General Post Office building


2. The Lou Kao Mansion


3. Inside the mansion


4. When you're inside cramped quarters like this, a UWA lens becomes God sent.


5. A UWA also let's you do this - get subject that's right in front while keeping the view behind. The man is the carver of the leaf. Yes. He carved that dragon onto that dried leaf and the leaf is still in one piece.


6. A-Ma Temple. The oldest and longest surviving temple in Macau.


7. Devotees offering prayers in the temple


8. The Church of Our Lady of Penha. Those black spots are not dust. Those are dragonflies flying around the place.


9.


10. St. Lawrence's Church



Note : All pics done on the Minolta 20mm f2.8 lens on an A850

I have one question : Do you guys mind the UWA distortion in shots like no. 10 and 8? How much can you take or do you prefer straight pictures?

*edit : fixed pic*

This post has been edited by shootkk: Nov 15 2010, 10:06 AM

if straight not like UWA i guess.. same like other lens with longer distance..
but sometimes the effect does increase the perspective.. and show some mode in that place..

The more correct the distortion will make some space disappear but it makes object like tall building looks better IMO ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some small advertise here ...
please vote for my photo's if you free :
http://www.facebook.com/?flyingspaghettimonster=logo#!/ph...36.167377027674

eh..ur name is chang xin zhe ah?...like the taiwan jeff zhang??...

btw, i found that photo really can immortalize memories...

this morning i open my flickr..i saw my gini pic...feel abit sad...no more gini for me to snap pic...

luckily i snapped quite some pic of it in its good form...

say goodbye to my gini..


In Memory of Gini

The most cute guinea pig ever. Sadly passed away on 13 Nov 2010.

I have immortalize this precious moment in the photo.

Rest in Peace. Gini.

ahpingko: sorry for your loss...he's cute

thanks

all from nex

thanks

no regret except for these 2 things at the moment:
1) i should have gone for nex5. nex3 no wireless remote or port for remote cable so it's hard to play with bulb mode for long exposure.
2) i missed wireless flash. come on sony, come out with with wireless trigger for nex dy!!

thanks
err, for the rainbow, use slow shutter, shake the camera like crazy, and pray that it turns out good. if not, repeat from step one.

guys, sorry for asking you all
but what is the different with AP and original lens?
why AP 1 so cheap?

what do you mean by AP?

Grey set? 3rd party lens? He did not state it clearly anyways.

if you mean by 3rd party lenses ie. tamron, sigma, tokina etc. then they're in some ways cheaper because of their materials used are sometimes inferior to the manufacturer's brand's own lenses. in some(many) cases, lens coating is a major factor ie. Zeiss T* coating and Nikkor nano crystal coating. they're one of the best in the field. 3rd party have yet to come close. then it could be due to the fact that 3rd party lenses only offer in screw drive AF when manufacturers have SSM built in.