The rest have been addressed by the others, I'm here to address point number 3.

Let me make this absolutely clear. See their Wiggy advertisement. "Fastest. Wireless. 10Mbps". What does that 10Mbps stands for? If you say it is an equipment limitation, then the specsheets I'm holding in my hand, that included inside the Wiggy modem box says 30Mbps. If you say that 10Mbps stands for their network limitation, IT NEVER HAD EVEN BEEN ABLE TO REACH THOSE SPEEDS at real-time situation! So what is this "10Mbps"? A nice number? A figure to delude consumers on how fast this service is, when in real application could not even satisfactorily reach half of that figure? What?

I am not technically blind. Look at my post history. I am not a noob who has just joined in LYN yesterday asking how to turn on my modem and what blinking lights I should look out for. What I am blind towards to is my relatively easy acceptance to new technology and my giving them a chance. Unfortunately my faith in them have been betrayed, both by the slanderous method of determining their download speed against advertised speed, and the numbers themselves. Unfortunately, both for me and them, I am not the type that stands by while I get swindled. My relative ease of acceptance of new technology does not mean I am easy to be conned, and I am not as willing to accept things as it is either.

For your Point #1 and 2, sure, any of the BB provider in there can pad and make their service look nice, they are entitled to do so with the competition and all. What I am concerned about is my BB provider of choice, chose to pad their numbers via slanderous ways, and claims ludicrous figures that will never be achievable in real life situation, in day-to-day basis. WE can talk technical jargon and specsheets and all other figures till the cow comes home, but the fact remain, they advertised 10, it never got to more than HALF of that. Is that the new definition and standard for "best effort basis" now? Is that acceptable to you? It is easy to take this issue light and trivially when you are not on the side where you have one foot inside the door and have signed the contract that is about to bind you for the next 12 months of your life, but what about the others who are either unaware of this seedy practice by P1, or those who are on the fence and undecided whether to subscribe or not?

If they are really out to capture the mindshare and the market with this service, you should not have padded the figures, or slander your speedtests this way. Or better still, BE HONEST and tell your customers the REAL LIFE speeds you would be getting instead of all the "nice and rosy 10" you can only get in ideal situations. IF you say the hall is not a conducive place to perform speed tests, guess what they can do? The activation takes only an hour. They can ask the new customer to test out their Wiggy modem with their own computer or provide a terminal at their collection counter (which is on ground floor, OUTSIDE of the exhibition hall BTW), and see the REAL SPEED, and see if the customer is willing to accept those speed, or moeny back INSTANTLY. That alone would have been credible and honest.

TO the rest who have signed up, go to the hall now, and try logging in. Their lies are IMMEDIATELY exposed when you do that.

To the rest who had been asking for reference download speeds, I got 1.9Mbps in AU2, 2Mbps in Jalan Ampang near Ampang Point, 2.3Mbps at infront of the taxi stand in Sungei Wang, 2.4Mbps at Berjaya Times Square, then I hopped on to the LRT and went to Kelana Jaya, went out the station to the bus waiting area and got 3Mbps. Got into the free shuttle to Ikano and got 4Mbps, went for a short run around the area, got back into the LRT and got out at Central Market for another paltry 2.5Mbps. I did not bother to go to Finnegan's the Sungei Wang numbers are already pathetic to begin with, so no point standing like an idiot infront of the pub to do the testing.

Now then, now that I have these figures to back up my claims, AND NONE OF THEM PROVIDES EVEN HALF OF THE CLAIMED SPEED, what does the P1 supporters here have to say about it? "It's raining?" "Unusual increase of logged-in users in the area I'm in?" or the most favourite excuse "Best effort basis only"?

Enough of all these excuses and bullshit. Those taking this lightly either did not even subscribe but rather like to sound clever finding excuses on behalf of P1, or drank so much of P1's Kool-Aid, that they take any available speed as "good enough". You disgust me.

Now that

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Apr 12 2009, 06:02 PM

You do have a point about being misled to discover the speeds you were expecting in the end, wasn't true. And from what I've been reading, the statements which back this up were:

1. Base Station in the Hall itself.

2. Probability of promoters feeding/enticing/promoting inaccurate information.

Besides the two, I read the rest as a gist of comparing who's head is bigger in technology know-how. Anyway, I'd not blame the banner in the hall because it printed 10mbps but didn't have a statement saying you'll get 10mbps.

As for the brochure, I didn't take one so I can't say if there was a claim made inside it too. I'm adding a reply here because I'd formally take the promotional material (banner, bunting) out of this argument unless it's been stated the registrant will be promised a 10mbps target.

Hence, keep this argument to the real facts and not start detouring into an area which would taint the statements you have already.

Just so you know, I'll forward this whole topic to a friend I know in the marketing department at P1. I'll want to find out their response to this as well. At the same time, try to see if there could be a request of a formal apology.

Way ahead of you. First thing I did after finding out about this, is to email them. No responses yet, and not expecting any till Monday.

Fine. If you dont want more subjective rantings and what not, let's get to the bottom of this. What is the "10Mbps" in that slogan. Explain that to me, and explain what my real-life speed I should be getting to consider this deal ACCEPTABLE. If anyone from P1 can answer this openly, and tell me this "ACCEPTABLE" number, and let others here know, then we'll see if everyone agrees that this is a sham or not. If they claim a lower number than 10, and say it is achievable, tell me the location, and I'll gladly locate myself there and do the ACTUAL real-life speed test from there. Then we compare if those numbers are FOR REAL, or just to make things look nice for them.

First things first though. Drop the figure "10". You are misleading the general public. We have been fed misleading infos long enough.

From the Advertising Standards Authority;

Advertisers and promoters bear principal responsibility for the advertisements and promotions they produce and must be able to prove the truth of their claims to ASA: they have a duty to make their claims fair and honest and to avoid causing offence. Advertising agencies have an
obligation to create advertisements that are accurate, ethical and do not mislead or offend. Publishers and media owners recognize that they should disseminate only those advertisements that conform to the Code. They accept the rulings of ASA Committee as binding.

Appreciate it knoblet. That is good info. But knowing these entities, they can use wordplay to describe their claims as such to conform to their actual performance they are getting, and get away with it. Hard numbers dont lie, words (and their attorneys) do.

Personally the "best effort basis" seems like a hideout when it comes to innabillity to provide the service that were put on the market...Backed by the Government and highly paid lawyers, the term has been used not only to protect when it comes to the incompetence but also to use as an expression when it comes to their latest Promotions!

Why not they put something like:

" You can get XXMbps ONLY when your modem/Wiggy/Hua Wei/etc etc is in XX meters from the tower/transmitter IF there is no one using at the same time. If not, you will get disconnection, slow speed, hard to connect/log in/etc etc. Our hardware has a backbone of 1000Mbps but, in terms of sharing, you cant get the speed we promote because if everybody gets the same speed, at the same time, our servers/transmitter/towers can't provide you with the speed you subscribe. Sorry folks, but we are here to make millions of RMs and not doing charity by just upgrading our hardware so everyone can have XXMbps as advertise or just to satisfy our customers.

Then they use nature as a reason also, which i personally think is a lame excuse. Rain, mountains, etc...

Is like the DVD sample some mentioned earlier...A box of DVD containing 100 pieces but can use only 20 pieces...then what for the 80 pieces for included??? d*** measuring perhaps??

This post has been edited by antonio: Apr 12 2009, 06:36 PM

All I'm saying is stop all these "best effort basis" nonsense. That claim/statement is so broad it can mean anything! Give hard facts and evidence, and realistic numbers. Then advertise it as such. Why are these service providers racing to our-advertise each other, and in the end, bloat up their figures to outdo one another when they know the figure they are bloating up to is not achievable at all? In the end, the enduser, we as the customer suffers, just because these service providers want to stroke their egos.

They won't because that is the only protection they have against lawsuits and complaints that are directed to them...

And one more funny thing;

The brick modem is it mine or Green Packet's?

I was to pay for the modem and I can't even get the Log in and password???? Gimme a break!

Its like buying a car but the hood is factory locked and I can't open it...only the manufacturer can...

Then what for I buy the freaking modem/brick??? Better the just loan it out rather than have us customers to pay for the darn thing...

Its just like your ASTRO Box (Thomson/Philips model). The decoder is capable of outputing 5.1 AC-3 surround sound and 16:9 @ 576i. Unfortunately , ASTRO does not make use of it. So does it mean that ASTRO is cheating on customers by not mentioning those stuff. It goes the same for our streamyx , the modem that comes along with streamyx are ADSL2+ capable. If you google up or read their specification sheet , it states that its capable of going up to 20Mbps+. Does it mean that streamyx is cheating on the customers. Heck even streamyx can't deliver 1Mbps properly !

Trust me , when ISPs (all ISPs) do give us the least pirority to customers. This is why I don't rant to Streamyx stating why my line is so slow on everyday and I can't do business nor call up P1 and argue with them saying that I don't get 50-60% of the advertised speed. None of the ISPs would want to look bad in the eyes of consumers - So of course this is where the marketing gimmick kicks in. All ISPs in Malaysia do practice this , that is why when you go to test the service - it would look great and once you bring it back home - It will be different

If that is your argument, then get this :- The Wiggy modem is rated 30Mbps download, not 10Mbps. So what is this "10" figure now? 30 with best effort at 10? 10 with best effort at ...god-knows-what-number? 10 is their network ceiling. I am not expecting 10. I am realistic. I am however expecting a figure which they can call a "REASONABLE" value. What that is, only P1 knows. What endusers like me know, is zilch, we are at the mercy of the provider. And yet still pay RM149 every month. Is that how things work now?

When in the Hall you should shout to everyone that P1 is a liar.

The three representatives cornering me is their attempt from me trying to dissuade others to do just that. I was already at the their Dell laptop checking their speedtests, and showing them mine on my laptop, when their advertisers are bumbling and hesitating for words to try and explain why I cant even get a signal in here while theirs are running merrily.

Broadband providers is a business. Say, will you want to make a flyer saying ' 10mbps connection?! But, you can only get this speed when your modem is beside the base station!'

There is no way they going to make such flyers.

P1 should do it the TMNet way on dealing 4mbps users. You see, not every area can apply for the 4mbps package that TMNet offered. This is the correct way of doing business. You know the limit of having 4mbps is only around the base station, why bother spread it out throughout the klang valley? Especially with numbers such as 10mbps.

I'm still on trial of the 6 months package given by them. Which is on 2.4mbps package. Out of 4 months of using it, let me over it with 10, only 4/10 throughout the 4 months i able to get connected (doesn't matter red, orange or green). I'm kind of sick with this results and self trying with the modem itself, i choose to just leave it on 24/7 with my desktop and p2p on. So whenever my p2p done downloading, i know that on that day my wimax is connected. But whenever i'm around the modem, rarely i have the chance to use it even to surf lowyat. Why? Because the modem love to blink.

This coming 14th gathering i hope TS can be there too. I want to listen to every facts and every single answers from the providers themselves. If there a reason behind this wiggy -bullshitness and the currently Always-No-Stable-Signal on wimax, i would gladly listen to them. If it not, the 6 months trial is my limit on using wimax. Streamyx is the best hope that i would love to gamble for longer period.

p/s: Damn. I just thought of getting wiggy.

Astro didn't advertise 5.1 AC-3 SS or the 16:9@576i nor did it state that the following capabilities will appear in their service.

But when a company says 10, 8, 5, 2, 1Mbps, 512kbps or even 400kpbs we can torelate of up to 50% loss due to their 'inability' or hardware incompetence. But whats the point when a company highlights a certain speed but can't really provide it to their general customers and not just some setup they made at PC fairs, so whats the point?

I can rent a booth/T1 connection/ and buy a couple of modems from China and showing off the kinda of speed I can deliver such as 20Mbps if patrons at the PC Fair subscribes to my service..

When they subscribe, go home and find out they can only surf around 400kbps, I can just say happily to them when they call my helpline, "Sorry Mr/Ms, it is our "Best Effort" and in your subscription form already states that...It is in there, with words smaller than a rice...

Moral of the story: Everyone can become an ISP now All you need is a good lawyer, gov backing and the "Best Effort Basis" term in your clause, and you can start coning/misleading/lie call what ever you want, it all means the same thing. And the good thing is, if subscribers decide to terminate, they have to pay penalty!! Huoorayy...Subscribe = get money Terminate = Also money....

No wonder ISP is growing like mushrooms after rain...

@NEls

you are lucky yours come with not strings attached, no payment whatsoever. I am on a deadline here ,towards my 7 day refund before that expires. That is why I am furious, since if dont act on this NOW, I will end up subscribing to something that I was not promised to or satisfied with.

I can show all the leniancy I have if I have the luxury of time, or payment. If I am under a deadline before I surrender my soul to them for 12 months, wouldnt it be prudent to exhaust all options available before you do that? Most importantly, would you surrender your soul knowing that your soul will be trapped working for something it had not been promised for, for 12 months?

Its just the hardware limit , its just like Huawei modem - Its stated that its able to go up to 14.4Mbps. So why our Mobile Service Providers are setting it at 3.6Mbps/7.2Mbps and claiming it goes up to 3.6Mbps/7.2Mbps whereby these modems are rated to go up to 14.4Mbps.


It just so happens so that on an ideal condition (which is likely not going to happen) , that its possible to achieve speeds ~8-10Mbps. It all boils down to marketing , its simple as that - antonio has given you a very simple example. Everybody is out here to make money and not to be charitable by saying that "Speeds are up to 10Mbps , that means you can get anywhere from 0-10Mbps. Don't blame us if you get sucky speeds because we did not promise you 10Mbps but we only promise you speeds up to 10Mbps - which means that it can by anywhere from 0Kbps up to 10Mbps". Since , you're being realistic , you do know that there is no way or there is a very slim chance that we are going to get such high speeds. At most you're going to get is 3-4Mbps. That's about it

I used WiMAX more than 6 months. Problems and frustrated lay more than enjoyment or fast speed. Most of the month. I think rarely i could manage to hit the maximum speed of my subscribed package. Especially the peak hours where usually most of the people online at the same time. It's just 1.2Mbps and it's so hard for me to reach the top speed. Plus our old customer's matter still occurred, I'm sure they improving but not until everything so we call "OK". So what you think about providing 10Mbps? Even though, 1.2Mbps and 2.4Mbps doesn't give you the right speed all the time. I didn't blame about the technology. I think the technology are fine, Just their network infrastructure and management doesn't work as professionally.

Speed you got, really depends which base station you're connecting. Some people very happy with it. But too bad i'm not the lucky one as i stayed in a place where always congested on their base station.

This post has been edited by Acrisius: Apr 12 2009, 07:05 PM

i do concur with your statement to keep this argument simple. keep out all the technical mumbo jumbo. just the basic facts.

P1 advertise 10Mbps speed in PC fair and shows 8Mbps in speedtest demo on their PC. (this was a fact given by TS)
a normal layman will only see 10Mbps and expects that he/she gets 10Mbps or near it once they subscribe to the service.

so is this a marketing gimmick by P1 showing their service strength to the people in order to reap in more customer?
guess we will know from your friend in P1 on monday.

this line tickles me. hahahhaa

it is very simple actually, P1 and other BB operator are just making the most of money they can from what millions they have invest.
as an example 1Mbps streamyx still price at $99 since inception till now. tak ada diskaun pun or free speed upgrade for this user after so long.

to upgrade hardware in order to increase the capacity requires more money. maybe there are short on it i guess.

2 day passed for you. Make sure you bring your wiggy if you are coming for the gathering. Let see whether you can get at least 4mbps at their HQ.

ooopss..crap. If they read my post they will prepare a basestation there on the 14th floor beforehand.

But seriously dude, ignore them for now. Whatever reason you will listen later from them will not bring speed to your wiggy. Thats the never ever changing facts. You knew, we all knew their equipment is not capable to provide a decent high speed throughout klang valley. Let go of it now and try it again later. Nothing to lose.

Truth is, i seriously want to know everything behind this wiggy thinggy.

This post has been edited by Nels: Apr 12 2009, 07:09 PM

The problem is as pointed out by antonio - all you need is a good lawyer and voila - TM is just trying to be nice and realistic by simply setting 4Mbps only to certain area , it seems that they are more into experimenting with those areas rather then rolling the service. Its possible to roll 4Mbps with ADSL1 Infrastructure and do wonder why TM has to roll it in ADSL2+ capable areas and those with newer DSLAMs . Its fine if TM limits the coverage zone for 4Mbps , however if they do that - folks do expect to get good speeds without the need of a proxy/VPN.

So at the end , ISPs are here to make money - no matter what.

sting , you should go for the gathering or so and vent our your frustrations and anger !