Just remember one of the irrefutable Laws of the Universe:-

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"

The truth will always surface.

I truly supported west wing for this. It doesn't matter if the plane is shot down so many times. In this hyper communication, one should not be so spot on and personal if another disagree. Be empathize n be persistent . Human stop exploring the earth after discovering land but an ocean is so huge that an ice berg is only view as a small piece of ice on the surface. And if we see a fisherman throwing a net into the ocean, a lot of his time is wasted collecting rubbish n clean the net after that. So good fish , crabs and prawns he catch in the net also came with the debris and rubbish. If the fisherman wants so much convenient, than he should be focusing his career as a marine scientist or inventor.

So just speak up n find where the mothership of rubbish loads was so that penicilin can be created. Now everybody still at risk of losing your fortune if not careful.

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Added on April 1, 2010, 1:56 pmhaha.. speaking of net.. today the Star showing a croc caught by a fisherman... see see... one day a croc will be caught also , some more in the sea.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Apr 1 2010, 01:56 PM

It is so very disheartening to see this happening.

Why should any discussions include anything that will implicate Swiftlet Farming and farmers, to be used as evidence when we are fighting for the right to exist in urban areas?

Why do people offer evidence for other NGOs to attack us? Isn't Badan Warisan, Penang Heritage Trust, CAP and the various local councils enough? Do we need SPCA, Perhilitan, Veterinari, Kesihatan etc to weigh in and fight us?

It is plain stupid unless the hidden agenda is to remove all swiftlet houses from urban areas so that all the birds will look for residence in ready built agricultural districts.

By all means discus how to build a good birdhouse, improve on the occupancy, and produce high quality nests, but for the sake of the future of those in urban areas, be selective and careful. Do not give away secrets that may one day help remove swiftlet houses from towns.

If you are not sure whether a subject may be detrimental to our cause, email DL, PM me, it's simple enough. Don't F... up the fight !

I have all my BHs @ towns and I have all to lose and yet I believe that I still prefer to build my BHs in town. What are we afraid or have we anything to hide? I didn't or do you have which I think not so. What's bad about the industry are those who have hidden agenda behind and try to create unrest and uneasiness. All problems associating with BHs in town can be solved.

Swiftlets are beautiful creatures created by God to serve us. They don't demand, they come freely and they are peaceful and carry no diseases.........infact, their nests can cure many illness that attack the lung and asthma is one of illness that birdnest do help alot.

So safe that I have been in the BH industry for so many years and I never use a worker to do my harvesting, maintenance or cleaning of BHs as I am scared that workers may see the security and structure weakness in my BHs and steal my nests. I never felt sick and not even a cold and haven't been to the doctor for over 10 years until I got that stupid abscess and that crazy specialist to put a 12 inches by 4 deep cut in me to remove the abscess............leaving me high and dry for over one month.

I never use any mask nor any shoes in the BHs as I feel safe with the swiftlets and I still healthy although I have laid in hospital for over a month having nothing to do with my health or staying in BHs.

Give me better reason to move to agriculture land and I will do it but nothing can beat a town BH and it's safe for the human and the birds as well. To clear the town of swiftlets, then it shall be more appropriate to clear all sparrows, pigeons, all domesticated birds and animals because they are more dangerous and they do carry diseases that are harmful to human being and may cause death but never the swiftlets.

If swiftlets are harmful, I shall be the first to close my BHs; my life is too important and I haven't many 10 years left!!!!!

So, any readers who need more true and correct information on swiftlets can always pm me and I always happy to help as anyone in the buz of caring for the swiftlets is my friend.

One day....maybe one day, I may just start a BH @ agriculture land but not until I solve the problem of perfecting the security for the BH@agriculture land, the thought of the crying of the dying chicks frighten and chilled my soul.

Jokingly, don't tell me to stay with the birds in agriculture land as my life is too precious and I may one day end up without my head or just bitten by a snake....hahahaha

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Added on April 1, 2010, 6:58 pmYes, So sorry that I forget the forum is for the discussion of swiftlets ranching as they called it.............will not make the same silly mistake of going out of the Forum's topic.

Haven't you see alot of new birds recently in the sky and they are not fledged birds but new birds seeking new place to build nests. It's not harvesting time even the present high market price.

So, happy advertising your BH for the new home makers and may your BH be prosperous and plentiful.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 1 2010, 06:58 PM

With due respect to your vast experiences with swiftlet houses in town, West Wing, I wonder if you are actively involved in any of the associations, especially in Malacca and Penang, fighting for the right to have swiftlet houses within urban areas.

We will welcome you in Penang with open arms, as another Person to champion our cause. We need more people who are prepared to meet and discus with the various government bodies, to attain a favourable 1GP for all of us.

We are in dire need of a good PR person to convince Badan Warisan and Penang Heritage Trust., the YBs and Aduns on the virtues of swiftelt houses in urban areas, how both can co exist in a symbiotic manner, beneficial to everyone.

We need urgently someone to assist and advise MPPP and MPSP on the myriad of complaints received on errant swiftlet house owners and of course to advise fellow swiftlet house owners on the do's and don'ts and finally to enforce all the recommendations.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

at this moment does penang have any swiftlet association?
there are some few points which i think Penang authorities must prioritize first like cleaning of rubbish and discipline the food hawkers for throwing rubbish into the drain and if you see the surrounding at night food carts hawker, there were so many of it were the caused of breeding rodents like rats and cockcroaches.

one of the thing also is that penang highly educated activist always zoom into something that is very short sighted.

it's ok if the island is dirty but since when do they worry about the disease when most of the boatmen living in weld quay still poo poo without a sewage system.
go to Tambun restaurant and see where your poo poo goes to when u visit the seafood restaurant.

so i guess only a few anti swiftlet who don't even know their own backyard first . we should be more worry of the people who are sneezing without putting a mask in the public bus.

This shall be my last comment on the issue of 1GP as I rather not have misunderstanding among us as we are all in the same boat. Infighting between friends are bad and shouldn't be continue but we are not cos we are only having different ideas or opinion on how it should be done.

To understand why I did and post is that I want all to have clearer views of the BHs in towns for the following reasons.

1. What the authorities are receiving are all incorrect informations mostly from those who knew very little of the BHs, ECO guys and many having hidden agenda BHs@ECO park.......
2. A small percentage of us are not cooperating to ensure that we can remain not 1 year or 3 years but forever @ towns by disturbing neighbours, unrest and unhappiness of the neighbours toward the BH@Town which is rather sad affair.
3. Newbizs to the industry should be taught well so that they will not lose all their saving incase they are not allowed as some of the requirements are there in most of the formal guildlines. To be on the safe side, ensure that you at least follow the formal guildlines if possible so as to give yourself better chances of being successful in staying put@Town.
4. I appreciate that many leaders like DL are trying very hard to push thru all BHs @ towns to be allowed to remain but it shall be a uphill task because we can never get 100% of what we want even if we have opposition parties as government and it maybe worst as DAP is 100% against the BH@Town; PAS is OK if for the money to fill their coffer ..........pls. do correct me cos I hope that my statement is wrong.
5. A Federal Swiftlets Association spokeman has told me that BHs @ Town are safe but then, please try to be helpful by not playing up the sound and disturbing the peace. What's calm now may became a storm if we are arrogance and inconsiderate.I asked for the draft copy and I hope to get it but then, no promises.
6. I was always telling members of the BHs owners that we need non members to be effective as if we can convince non owners that we are a group of peace loving and environment friendly people and no the illegal operators of BHs as we often heard in Newspapers. Why so far no oen has ever complaint that the Newspapers gave wrong informations as we are not illegal and never have been. We are a group of law bidding citizens trying to make good living in an honest way.......happen to save the world to be green and enviroument friendly.

For that, the Friends of the Earth has wronged us, the Prevention of cruelty to animal has not supported us and all the world Peace loving groups should have supported us for we are truly their friends.

Swiftlets Sanctuaries services are what we provide and nothing illegal about it and I hope that the authorities or reporters should never associate us with the illegal and the criminals. We are clean and honest people trying very hard to earn honest living in a world full of corruptions and unhealthy shits.............not swiftlets' shit cos it's healthy and safe like us.

PS. Sure, I m very active in my area and in my Association and are always in the front line to take any beating when required not for the members but for the birds.

i like to learn about the transition between a buyer and seller . is there a 101 book or articles on what should be follow as a buyer of bird nest house from commercial to agricultural farm.

must i be upset or disappointing if i cannot find much information in the federal association of swiftlet that represents malaysian?

sometimes of course we would prefer to have a guideline or books to teach us rather than verbal conversation with a consultant right.

what do u think? is it possible to get a book or articles from any sifus?
thanks.

In my opinion, there always need to having some form of compromised understanding between group A comprising of Badan Warisan and Penang Heritage and Group B the owner of the old building converted into BHs or to be converted into BHs.

Symbolically is not right as they need assurance and concrete planing so that the heritage buildings are there for the future generations and that we BH owners are not going to destroy all the pasts.

Give them 100% assurance that we will maintain the building well as agreed even if we have to enter in any written agreement with them, bidding our future generations as well.

They should understand that owners of those old heritage building need to survive and when chances like this occur, there are no reason to prevent the owners from cashing in with certain guildlines agreed by both parties and that the terms and conditions shouldn't be too extreme.

I may think that the authorities here do not have confidence or believe that we will follow once the approval is given and for that, we need to reach out our hands to them to show that we are friends and part of the BW and PHT as heritage of those buildings are also the heritage of the BHs owners @ Penang and Malacca .....


Errant swiftlet house owners and uncooperative BHs owners are worst than those who criticize us for they are the ones that tarnish our good works and commitment to make this industry acceptable by all @ town esp the authorities. I would recommend that the BH owners association get the local authorities to take action against those not follow our guidelines for it's better for us to get the headmaster to cane our own
children rather to have others telling the headmaster to do so............

Personally had found out that many bh owners are aware of the new 1gp but most of them do no know what n who doing it. Is this a one way communication. when I comes to the current 1malaysia slogan, rakyat didahulukan. Does it mean the one of the residence or two affected by the bird nest or the number of members in the association?

In essence, the above had been communicated to MPPP YB Chow K Y which had contributed to a stay of enforcement on existing birdhouses within the state of Penang, until the 1GP is finalised and following that, the State of Penang's Swiftlet Guidlines is gazetted.

As with any democratically run association, the direction of the association is very much dependent on the office bearers and their CEO. It is usual for many to only 'wake up' when under immediate threat, which results in the current committees being made up of those primarily from the group under imminent attack. These are perhaps in a "Fight for Survival" mode and not easily open to compromises. It is then up to the CEO to lead the association into the 'right' path.

Having said the above, there exists a large number of reasonable swiftlet ranchers who are currently too complacent to be even involved in any association...............until finally awakened under threat.

The Heritage groups realise the shortcomings of the authorities and understand that whatever is destroyed cannot be undone recommend that therefore there must be an immediate stop to more houses being converted to swiftlet ranches within heritage zones. Whilst there is no enforcement on existing birdhouses, currently many new birdhouses are being built. This obviously results in council receiving greater pressure from Heritage groups, more complaints and swiftlet ranching getting worse publicity.

A Heritage activist, entered uninvited into a house within a gazetted heritage zone, which was being converted into a swiftlet ranch, offering "unwelcome" advice. The owner assaulted the activist.

my swiflet house is 20feet X 60 feet. wat is the minimum size of my roving rum? PLz teach me

it should be 12.5ft x 12.5ft minimum..is is advisable to make it biggeR~

Quote: West Wing
4. I appreciate that many leaders like DL are trying very hard to push thru all BHs @ towns to be allowed to remain but it shall be a uphill task because we can never get 100% of what we want even if we have opposition parties as government and it maybe worst as DAP is 100% against the BH@Town; PAS is OK if for the money to fill their coffer ..........pls. do correct me cos I hope that my statement is wrong.


Just discussed with DL and some old vanguards of the above and they have the followings to clarify and they wish to refresh the memory of some old comrades who might have forgotten. DL and his comrades have been fighting for the rights for not only the BHs in towns but also for the whole industry as a whole as this bird’s nest industry is a god sent to all Malaysians regardless of ethnic and this is a new resource that will definitely bring in a lot of much needed foreign revenue to do good for Malaysia and its people during this dwindling economy of Malaysia. Actually all of us are fighting against a small group of LITTLE NAPOLEONS hidden inside the Malaysia Civil Service who are trying to create a lot of unnecessary bureaucratic lengthy and crazy procedures to, instead of helping to tap its potential for the people and the country, crippling and killing it slowly for their personal hidden agenda and gains. Why couldn’t the Civil Service just treat this industry like any normal petty trade and cottage industry and simplify all the procedure with existing by-laws? DL has attended and resolved countless BH cases and incidents involving the Local Govt across the country. He could literally read out their mindset. By creating lengthy and complicated bureaucratic procedure putting the owners into troubles and difficulties, these LITTLE NAPOLEONS have been fishing something out. Mind you, this small group happens to be those in the positions that could mislead the leaders in their respective departments. They are supposed to be professionally trained but do not act or practice professionally. This group is the ones that are giving this industry the real problems and are misguiding the top leaders and the people to Holland. DL and his comrades are not fending for those selfish BH owners who are causing nuisances to the neighbourhood. They only fight for those who behave and abide the laws.


It is not fair to jump in to allege that a certain political party is 100% against the BHs in towns. There are leaders in all the political parties who are for and against this industry. Most of the leaders who were against this industry were actually new, misinformed and misled initially. Eventually, after having a clearer picture and better in-depth understanding of this industry, they started to support this industry.


Just to quote a few incidents to substantiate. The first incident in the history of going against BH in Malaysia happened in year 2000 in Nibong Tebal of Penang. There was a group of Pre-war shop-house tenants asked by the landlord to vacate the buildings after the DE-CONTROL OF PRE-WAR BUILDING ACT came into force in 2000 felt unsatisfied and formed a ANTI SWIFTLET HOUSE TASKFORCE picketing against an existing BH of their old landlord in N. Tebal. This landlord was an active MCA member. The leader who led the protest happened to be the lady YB ADUN of N.Tebal and who is also MCA and a rival in the PARTY to the landlord. There was speculation that it was caused because of the MCA team A and team B.


Again it was in 2004/05 that the same group instigated by the same lady YB pressurized the former Penang Gerakan led BN Govt to clamp down on all BHs in Penang. This State Govt under the leadership of Dr Koh Tzu Koon and Dr Teng H. N was in great dilemma as they also viewed this was a good industry benefitting the people and the state and more over many of the BH owners are members from MCA, UMNO, GERAKAN, MIC as well as DAP, PAS and PKR. While the State Govt was also misguided and misled by a certain LITTLE NAPOLEONS in the Council in particularly MPSP trying to start clamping down the BHs, DL and his comrades were approached and requested by the majority Penang BH for help. They organized and formed a taskforce with counter action by nightly picketed rotating in many towns with the turnout of hundreds BH owners nightly and concurrently pressured the Exco in charge for a dialogue. Finally an agreement was reached and licenses were issued to the existing 1000 odd BHs in 2006.


Again in Perak in 2005, the LITTLE NAPOLEONS from the Councils were causing a lot of hardship and victimizing the BH owners who were members from all political parties. DL and his comrades were requested and they spearheaded and pro-actively conducted numerous meetings with both the BN Sate Govt and the DAP and the hundreds of owners in closed door as well as open dialogues. Finally an official meeting cum open dialogue was arranged amicably in Sitiawan between the then Exco Dato Chang from Gerakan, YB ADUN and now Dato Geh from DAP, DL and His comrades and the hundreds of Perak BH owners. Immediate after the meeting, the State Govt instructed all the Councils to accept license applications from all BH owners in Perak.


In 2002, in Melaka, the competition in attracting of birds among just a few BHs belonged to a certain local taikoh and some outsider new comers caused a near to disaster for all the other hundred BH owners. Their competition in the indiscriminate blasting of the bird sound almost round the clock disrupted the peace of the neighbourhood and invited complaints from all the locals. There were pickets cum protests against the BHs by the hundreds of the locals wanting the State Govt to shut down all the BHs in Melaka. The best part is this was organized jointly by both the MCA and the DAP of Melaka. The Melaka State Govt passed a resolution in June to inform all the BH owners giving them six months ending 01.01.2003 to either voluntarily close shop or face forced eviction. DL was requested to go to Melaka to help. After a meeting was held between DL and his comrades and the Exco in charge, Dato Wira Gan, the issue was settled with peace returned to Melaka and the existing BHs remained status quo till today.


In the past till very presently in Johor, Why no BH license was issued? Who are the BH owners? Mostly members from all the political parties. Who are in the ruling parties in the Johor State Govt? The UMNO and the MCA. Who are the Johor ECO-PARKs owners? Mostly belong to Govt-Linked Companies (GLC) or privately owned Companies. Who are sitting inside the Board of Directors of these companies? The UMNO and MCA YBs or strong men.


Our dear friend, Mr WW, you have put up a rather serious allegation which in the opinion of the old timers cum vanguards that you could be misinformed or slipped of the mind. You asked for correction if your statement could be wrong. So, we just want to refresh your memory with the above factual incidents and events for your wisdom to determine who the real culprits and enemies to not only this industry but also Malaysia as a whole are.


May be some of you here could have participated or involved in either one or all these historical incidents or events mentioned or know about it from your seniors would like to confirm that the above stories are not fabricated.

What you said might be true. But all boil down to 99% Bh owner are Chinamen.

If 99% are Malay then it would be different. Then it would be free land, free farm from MARA, easy loan that no need to pay back, subsidy, they might even provide free egg for fostering technique. Also 100% buy back nests at the price of 10 times high than market price.

1Malay!

No point denying it and struck our head in the ground and pretending nobody could see the chinamen butts.

This is the truth and it will never change. Accept the reality and work together and see what we could do about it.

Thank you Brother Luke for your endless effort.

This post has been edited by Semuabumi: Apr 5 2010, 09:48 AM

Hah! This is a good history record for me. something that goes back to year 2000 . DL and the comrades must be highlighted in the history book of swiftlet and i wish all their efforts to win the heart of the people is described so that we knew what went wrong and why there's anti task force on swiftlet when the swiftlet is the one that choose the house to stay .

The noise can be curb because many ranchers are very egoist and like to bring people attention to their bird house. i will mark them wrong for this as using sound to attract birds may helps but there were even birds that could just go into old abandon houses without all the loud tweeting sound if u have the right knowledge and heart to run the ranch. Can you imagine there were many businesses in swiftlet shared by a couple of partners and do you think they are interested to look after the place?

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Added on April 5, 2010, 11:02 amhi semuabumi, im not sure where this 99% figure BH are mostly chinamen but i think it could be right as well also due to the fact that most of the importers will sell it into hong kong, china and other chinese population that regards this as a traditional emperor food and they could even sell a plate of this cuisine to the rich and famous in any of the top chinese restaurant . Just like how european acknowledge foods like Caviar and the black mushroom as the luxury food .

If the malays would have appreciate the bird nest food and drink as one of the health food than the malay instituition will have their own research and study to built a better Kampung Bird house which may be very different and better , who knows?

The chinese could have top the industry not because of the race colour or what but their chinese counterpartners and friends due to no language barrier had created a new industry for us . Moreover, the trust of getting the right product is very crucial in the business so the malay must be genuine and honestly to be friends with the chinese local here . the chinese local always welcome such friendship but do remember that both must have mutual respect and not simply become friend because of motives.

i have no doubt malays can run the bird house by their own but before that can happen, the popularity of this dish and food must be promoted to your own people first and serve in your malay restaurant also. Just like eating shark fin , abalone , scallops and sea cucumbers which we have no halal label on it .

So do not blame the chinese for partly monopolizing the industry , its not that.... they have buyers overseas already with their long term networks and businesses in the pharmaceutical or restaurants in hong kong and china.

also for your info, thai bird nest ranchers also sell their edible bird nest drink to the public for rejuvenation and refresher anywhere outside the street . we still have long way to go . even chinese market is untapped or popularize here yet because of the price. If you ever heard of " Quo Lin Kuo" jelly herbal drink, the market price here is RM 8 but if you go to genuine shop like hong kong, the herbal drink were sold from RM 10 - 30 per bowl due to premium quality.

So when will we get to see bird nest soup or drink serve anywhere here soon?

This post has been edited by hackwire: Apr 5 2010, 11:11 AM

99% Chinese owned was over exaggerated. My guess is, Malays probably owns 20% to 30% of the total BHs in Malaysia and they are catching up and gap.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Apr 5 2010, 11:18 AM

Although, the majorities of BH owners are chinese but presently, many other races esp. Malays are in it, too and are increasing as we post. I have had so many Malay friends seeking information on how to start the BH.

My friend Lucas, since you have told me wrong although not proven me wrong yet as time will tell, I hope and pray for peace for the sake for the industry as I wish the Penang and Malacca BHs representatives can come to understanding with the state government and allow the BHs to remain for the sake of so many raayat going to lose their whole fortune if force to move out.

If Penang and Malacca's cases proved successful, I believe other states will try to better the terms and conditions for the industry so as to win the affected raayat support.

Once agreed and sealed, hope all must follow as agreed as not to cause another round of trouble for all those guys like DL and friends who have spend so much time and money trying to save your BHs in town.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 5 2010, 11:19 AM

All,
The situation is bad enuff, let's not add on to by blurting out stuff along racial lines.
We ourselves have to alleviate by living it and not merely complain about it.
I am of the human race.
(am writing frm a cybercafe...missed u guys too much -lah)

The MB is building a new township @ Kijal near my town and I was at the trees planting ceremony held at Kijal.........and according to the MB, it's going to be very big with all modern facilities and even a specialist center, bowling and shopping complex.........anyone here may want to invest.

I have told a MB's closed Associate to inform MB of my suggestion that why not move all other buzs from Cukai to the new township so that his dream new township can be accomplished in the shortest time and leave Cukai to the birds. It's going to be win win situation as he wants the new township to be successful and we want our BHs @ town to stay put as the area is a core for the swiftlets.

Presently about 20% of the town shop lots are already BHs, make it a 100% and we have ready buyers for these shoplots for the birds. Then, we also have a new Swiftlets' Town, 100% swifltets.

Just a thought, maybe day dreaming, maybe MB can agree. Ishaallah, who know...hahaha