Mesuarat Bersama Pengusaha Premis Burung Walet dan Stakeholders, Putrajaya, 06/05/09

Draf Garis Panduan Perancangan dan Kawalan Operasi Premis Burung Walet.

Jabatab Perancangan Bangar dan Desa Semenanjung Malaysia

The above meeting was held in Putrajaya to discus the finalisation of the National Guidlines for the operation of Swiftlet houses in Pen. Malaysia.

Who in this forum attended, would like to know the outcome, as well as who were the representatives for this industry.

Several years ago, in Penang, an alternative association was proposed, to be headed by these same people but they declined for personal reasons. So, it was left as that until the end of 2008 when as usual, the day of reckoning approached and then again everyone scrambled to get an active association going, and all went quiet when the authorities gave another years' grace.

During that period, a group in Penang formed ASNI. When ASNI was finally registered the membership drive produced very disappointing results. Before the registration excercise, birdhouse owners expressed their support but when it come to putting money where their mouth is, they backed down. It was back to the usual " wait and see " attitude.

ASNI reps took the trouble and at their own expense , met Penang authorities, as well as meetings with Perhilitan, Veterinari, Kesihatan, Building and planning, and various other departments in Putrajaya, together with other related associations, throughout the whole of 2009, discussing the formulation of a National Guidline for Swiftlet Ranching.

That been done, everything went quiet whilst the cabinet ministers, politicians, MPs etc fought each other from one scandal to another. So the birdsnest industry waits for the guidlines.

Throught the thick of all the meetings, Dato B was active and went to all the meetings in Putrajaya, spearheading the cause of swiftlet ranchers. Dato is a respected figure in Government circles, judging from the response he receives. Whatever the case may be, Dato has more to lose than most of us put together if the guidlines resemble what we have seen in the past. I believe, Dato is using all his influence to protect his investments and in doing so protect ours as well.

Due respect must be given to DL, a good friend and especially as one who has led me through this melee. DL had almost single handedly postponed the destruction of many birdhouses in Malaysia, where were all of you then when help was needed. Yes, DL was a rabble rouser, he got the people going when there was a fight but when the whole issue subsides, they ditch DL sooner than they change underwear. Did those people DL save thank him or even supported him when needed ?

For whatever reasons, DL will always fight for the oppressed, be it swiftlet farmers or ordinary rate payers, unfortunately DL does not have the clout within the government.

So different weapons for different situations.

As for the " latest Draft Guidlines " " 1GP" , it looks suspiciously like an old draft, an unofficial release. Hoax ?

If you feel that your local association is not doing it's job, join(which you should have done so long ago) the association and change the committee and get the job done. If you are in Penang, Join ASNI

Don't sit in front of the computer discussing, go do something about it.

can someone please post the direct link to this document in DVS as I cannot find it on the official site.

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Added on February 27, 2010, 6:18 pmHow does one set up an association with 20,000 when on initial membership drive the response is dismal. Like the chicken before the egg scenario.

Before the association , ASNI was registered, hundreds pledged their support then when things are done, they back down !

Yes, send me the direct link to the DVS document site and I'll get Dr. Fadzila's confirmation after I've checked it out. That is my intention from the start. Could not get the the site from sms link.



This post has been edited by tuckfook: Feb 27 2010, 06:18 PM

The above link leads to a blank page.

If it the same as on your website, then is only a repository for documents which anyone can deposit for downloading. Not official Veterinary Department.

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Added on February 27, 2010, 9:44 pmyes, we are aware of Dept. of Veterinary Services position in Swiftlet ranching. RFID tracing was actually proposed by me to Dr. Fadzila at the Juru seminar several years ago. This was in response to the GAHP advisory then.

We have associates in constant contact with DVS. There has been no mention of final draft of Guidlines at all. Will recheck again.

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Added on February 27, 2010, 9:46 pmyes, we are aware of Dept. of Veterinary Services position in Swiftlet ranching. RFID tracing was actually proposed by me to Dr. Fadzila at the Juru seminar several years ago. This was in response to the GAHP advisory then.

We have associates in constant contact with DVS. There has been no mention of final draft of Guidlines at all. Will recheck again.

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Added on February 27, 2010, 10:13 pmDato and everyone is extremely concerned. Unfortunately when announcements and press releases are made, it is either not seen or heard. They have not been silent. If we were not concerned, I would not be commenting.

ASNI have in the past given press releases refuting the accusations of the Heritage groups.

The state authorities are holding back on action until the National Guidelines are gazetted. ASNI is trying it's best to keep in intimate touch with the Penang State Authorities. Unfortunately partisan politics obscure our problems, usually until the last moment.

The "said" 1GP looks like a very infantile version of another given to the associations about 6 months ago. That version was discussed in Putrajaya by various heads of depts. and representatives of swiftlet associations throughout Malaysia. Many of the points discussed and agreed upon were developed from sections similar to the said 1GP which is why we feel that it is unlikely to be the final draft.

If it is indeed the final draft then the various government heads of depts. have gone back on their word.

The Dept. of Veterinary Services has been very pro Swiftlet Ranching which is why Dr. Fadzila should only be approached with concrete evidence or we will look like complete idiots.




This post has been edited by tuckfook: Feb 27 2010, 10:13 PM

Hi Everyone,

Regardless of the authenticity of the "published" 1GP, the consequences of the pending Cabinet meeting and affiliations to various associations,

My opinion is that all of us should look into professional legal advice as to whether it is legal/possible for the impending National Guidelines for Swiftlet Ranching, when gazetted, be retroactive.

In other words, if a swiftlet rancher had built following existing gazetted guidlelines,( or in the absence of Guidlines) how will the NEW guidelines affect them.

Of course if an existing rancher had built contravening any existing laws then that has to be rectified as per existing legislation and probably if this is not rectified before the new guidelines are gazetted then the new guidelines will have to be adhered to.

No doubt any guidelines will affect many of us in one way or another so proper legal representation should be sought.

Any advice in this aspect will be welcome.

Move forward and anticipate the next course for action.

Complacency is the cause of much of our woes.

When one person makes suggestions or posts ideas that a certain action will increase their harvest, MANY PEOPLE WILL, regardless of religion, belief, ethics etc. be tempted to try it out! Be reminded that many read this forum but do not post.

I am sure by now, many people are contemplating this repulsive action.

Anonymous forumers are here to gain knowledge on how to start or improve their involvement in the EBN industry.

Most animals have a natural instinct to preserve and propogate their species. Under breeding stress, as when they have their nests removed, chicks killed(naturally or otherwise) or eggs stolen or infertile, the instinct will be to build or reproduce as quickly as possible. This may also bring upon the earlier sexual maturity of otherwise immature young. So in effect there may be a sudden increase in nests.

Remove nests too often in a BH and the birds may also conclude that this place is not good to live in !

This increase in nests may not be because of the increase of population in the BH. In fact the contrary may be the case when baby birds are left crying before dying. The message is clear from the crying that this place is dangerous! Switch off your sound and you'll see how loud these birds are.

A natural balance of smell from bird droppings, naturally dead birds, broken eggs etc. makes the house seem natural to newcomers but increase the ammonia, Hydrogen sulphide and methane in the BH and it becomes dangerous and unbearable to the residents. This is especially so with low ceilings in houses when compared to caves.

The killing of nestlings and the destruction of eggs is absolutely unnecessary and in fact may be detrimental in the long run for you BH.

Everything mentioned in this forum is exposed to everyone including those supporting the blog below. This can and will be used against swiftlet farmers. Act smartly, or you'll be digging your own grave.

There are always 2 sides to a coin.

All human residents have their respective rights so we should respect theirs too. Remember, swiftlet farmers are a minority !

As for diseases, even though H1N1 has not been found in A. Fuciphagus, it does not conclusively prove that there will not be an incident are that there has never been an incident gone undetected. The fact that these birds are not living in or around pools of water as in ducks, geese etc. from known research, lessens the chances of them transmitting H1N1

Note that none of the swiftlet farmers/associations have been constructive in finding a solution that will be acceptable to everyone.

Heritage once lost cannot be recovered. Heritage Architecture destroyed can never be restored and that loss will be a loss to mankind forever.

Given the way some swiftlet farmers have acted in the past, would anyone dare openly criticise swiftlet farmers without fear of painful repercussions ?

Please note that EBN swiftlets were nesting in coastal Malaysia when these 'Heritage' Buildings were built. Unfortunately no hard evidence is available but from memory of people who observed this phenomenon and stories passed down, we know.

I have seen EBN nesting on the walls of the Standard Chartered bank, Khoo Kongsi and many other buildings around the Penang Weld Quay area when I was younger till perhaps 20 yrs ago when building owners decided that they had to keep these pests away. Khoo Kongsi now resorts to fish nets around the temple.

On the contrary, UNESCO should be informed of this living heritage and if UNESCO accepts this, that will be the end of the anti swiftlet lobby. Remember, Heritage listing is not only about buildings.

Facts and evidence is of utmost importance, and you find that many of the "Heritage' supporters are extremely well informed, much more so than most Swiftlet House owners.

Keep the mistakes and weaknesses of our opponents as our secret, only to be used as ammo in the future. Reveal and criticise them and they can make the necessary corrections.

I hope you can all see what I mean. We have in recent weeks exposed to everyone, the inhumane practise of culling, building irregularities, etc. all can be and will be used by our opponents. This is not a closed forum. It will make things even more difficult in the very near future.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: Mar 29 2010, 12:47 PM

It is so very disheartening to see this happening.

Why should any discussions include anything that will implicate Swiftlet Farming and farmers, to be used as evidence when we are fighting for the right to exist in urban areas?

Why do people offer evidence for other NGOs to attack us? Isn't Badan Warisan, Penang Heritage Trust, CAP and the various local councils enough? Do we need SPCA, Perhilitan, Veterinari, Kesihatan etc to weigh in and fight us?

It is plain stupid unless the hidden agenda is to remove all swiftlet houses from urban areas so that all the birds will look for residence in ready built agricultural districts.

By all means discus how to build a good birdhouse, improve on the occupancy, and produce high quality nests, but for the sake of the future of those in urban areas, be selective and careful. Do not give away secrets that may one day help remove swiftlet houses from towns.

If you are not sure whether a subject may be detrimental to our cause, email DL, PM me, it's simple enough. Don't F... up the fight !

With due respect to your vast experiences with swiftlet houses in town, West Wing, I wonder if you are actively involved in any of the associations, especially in Malacca and Penang, fighting for the right to have swiftlet houses within urban areas.

We will welcome you in Penang with open arms, as another Person to champion our cause. We need more people who are prepared to meet and discus with the various government bodies, to attain a favourable 1GP for all of us.

We are in dire need of a good PR person to convince Badan Warisan and Penang Heritage Trust., the YBs and Aduns on the virtues of swiftelt houses in urban areas, how both can co exist in a symbiotic manner, beneficial to everyone.

We need urgently someone to assist and advise MPPP and MPSP on the myriad of complaints received on errant swiftlet house owners and of course to advise fellow swiftlet house owners on the do's and don'ts and finally to enforce all the recommendations.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

In essence, the above had been communicated to MPPP YB Chow K Y which had contributed to a stay of enforcement on existing birdhouses within the state of Penang, until the 1GP is finalised and following that, the State of Penang's Swiftlet Guidlines is gazetted.

As with any democratically run association, the direction of the association is very much dependent on the office bearers and their CEO. It is usual for many to only 'wake up' when under immediate threat, which results in the current committees being made up of those primarily from the group under imminent attack. These are perhaps in a "Fight for Survival" mode and not easily open to compromises. It is then up to the CEO to lead the association into the 'right' path.

Having said the above, there exists a large number of reasonable swiftlet ranchers who are currently too complacent to be even involved in any association...............until finally awakened under threat.

The Heritage groups realise the shortcomings of the authorities and understand that whatever is destroyed cannot be undone recommend that therefore there must be an immediate stop to more houses being converted to swiftlet ranches within heritage zones. Whilst there is no enforcement on existing birdhouses, currently many new birdhouses are being built. This obviously results in council receiving greater pressure from Heritage groups, more complaints and swiftlet ranching getting worse publicity.

A Heritage activist, entered uninvited into a house within a gazetted heritage zone, which was being converted into a swiftlet ranch, offering "unwelcome" advice. The owner assaulted the activist.

Somebody start a new topic "No Swiftlet Houses in Georgetown - Right or Wrong " for discussion.

note that the topic is similar to the blog spot so that a google search will turn this forum up.

Are there many in this group who are game for an intelligent discussion on the above topic, if there are, others from the various swiftlet associations, PHT and Badan Warisan, and YB's will be informed and invited to participate.

Be aware that many of the invitees will be professionals in their respective fields therefore will probably know in absolute detail what they discus.

We, swiftlet house owners cannot afford to be humiliated in this instance as this can influence the result of how the 1GP will be implemented by the local councils[.

Are we up to it ?

There is no such blog ! I'm suggesting a forum with a similar name so that a google search will produce results leading to the forum ! as well as http://noswiftlethousesingeorgetown.blogsp...03/contact.html
This will lead people searching for the blog site to also see the forum site listed. Then newcomers will have a chance to see and participate in the forum.

Of course the blogger of noswiftlethousesingeorgetown has an agenda. It is clear that the blogger does not want swiftlet houses in Georgetown. Why would the blogger want to publish the truth ? Which is why a counter measure must be initiated to refute those allegations.

As for PHT.. Penang Heritage Trust is an NGO not part of the State Government. They have NO jurisdiction over anything except for their own properties and members. PHT puts pressure on the state government to get things done. The State and country has a Warisan department that takes care of heritage matters.

There are members of ASNI who advocated the dialogue between ASNI and PHT but unfortunately the committee is uncommitted.

There is no such requirement that the fascade must be maintained only. In fact it is a council requirement when you submit plans for renovations in heritage zones that before it is passed, the fascade must be at least restored to councils' standards . PHT is pushing for restoration externally as well as internally to be as close as possible to the original. For some buildings in the core Heritage zones, MPPP will only pass plans for renovations only if they fulfill the requirements for restoration internally as well as externally.

SMI is also an NGO and advises members on such industries. They currently work together with ASNI. Official support will come when the time comes. For swiftlet houses in heritage zones, I suspect SMI will only comment when the legal position is clear.

Just another fact for all to digest.

Termites cause millions of ringgit worth of damage in Malaysia every year.

When the rainy season starts, millions of termites sprout wings and fly off looking to start new colonies, especially in buildings that are built of wood.

Just this evening I thought it strange that a large portion of the swiftlets from my house were flying around when they would usually be roosting. I thought the worst, maybe there was a predator inside the house.

On closer observation, the birds were having a feast on the emerging termites ! Whoever is up there, Thank you !

You can be sure the local councils know the number.

Many councils have already worked out the following,

Max. fine for each house for not submitting plans, illegal extension etc. 20x plan fees.
Yearly income from licenses applicable to each department/authority.

Fines for dirty premises, mosquito larvae, cockroaches, rats, not forgetting noise pollution etc.

Late payment fees.

Conversion of residential or non commercial to commercial fees

Additional assessment for commercial premises. 10% ++ of rentable value

Yes, the local councils would like very much to collect the millions !

Unfortunately, there have been too many complaints and councils cannot issue licenses due to mass disapproval.

There is no need to highlight the numbers, council already knows, I have seen the register for Penang Seberang Perai Selatan and allowing the current operators to go ahead is worth millions to MPSP.

When the past head of buildings was questioned on the fees charged by MPSP compared to other councils, (in one of the seminars a few years ago) he answered "We are cleverer!" All the other councils are now aware of the possibility to charge these fees.

Go ahead and highlight the price of nests and council might get greedier.

http://www.slideshare.net/yongkangbirdnest...lets-specialist

Hello Georgetown, nice of you to drop by into the "Devil's Lair"

Let's get the ball rolling, What have you and your readers got against having swiftlet houses in Georgetown ?

Might be appropriate if we start a new topic or thread to be distinct from the present thread of swiftleet keeping. The present thread is very long and can be confusing to newcomers opposed to swiftlet keeping in Georgetown.

Something specific like " No Swiftlet Houses in Georgetown" ?

I'm sure the current forumers in this thread will keep it very active.

The total dimension of the building is important. If the building id a standalone farm then you have the opportunity to build to use the space efficiently.

The roving room should be at the same level as the in/out hole area. Maximize on the roving room and you'll get better results. Think 30ft x 40ft. or more for better light control. In my next house I will devote at least half if not the whole of the topmost floor as a roving room, it also acts as a heat control for the nesting room below.

Inter floor access should be aligned so that birds fly from one level to another without circling much. Small and narrow voids cause the birds to circle and it may be OK for old birds but that'll kill the young birds. Your doors are a sure killer.

I suspect you are trying to make a building that can become an office or such like in case the bird house venture fails. Positive thinking and all out effort make a success of the swiftlet venture. "I will not fail because I will make the best possible for the birds and will keep trying to improve."

OK Georgetown, the Ball in in your court. I have started a new topic.

" No Swiftlet Houses in Georgetown, Are Swiftlet Houses good for Georgetown? "

this can be found under 'Finance, Business and Investment House' in this forum

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1397059


Georgetown, invite all your friends to post all your objections and we'll do our best to address them