Salutations to all on forum.
Have been thru V1 and now V2 for past 3 mths.
I do not own a BH yet and am now scouting for suitable locations to start a standalone on agri land. Am now concentrating around Ulu Yam area in Selangor. I grasp the additional difficulties (as posted previously) in securing a standalone in a generally forested area. I am especially taken up by the difficulties in preventing owl attacks.
Can a mist net (or jaring / drift net) strung up at night over the entrance not do the trick? I figure that it can be auto operated (rolled up like a shade) thru use of a photo sensor.

Before anyone die from a broken heart or have a heart attack stewing in your anger over what some 'gomen' agencies are cooking up for the EBN industry. My apologies if this is a little off topic.
I dont blame the gomen servants (as Dunsun as pointed out), if the boss doesnt right it, no one will. Wise saying 'We get only the leaders we deserve.. or something similar to that effect'. Reading the writeup below will give you some inkling on some of the why's but doesnt offer the how's.
There are some enlightened folks around ... like the author below.
As for me I cry for what Malaysia could have been & what it may be.
I wish some previous 'leaders' 500 years of good health so they may also cry along for the missed opportunities.
=========================================


Cry my beloved Malay soul

AB Sulaiman |


When Alan Paton wrote 'Cry The Beloved Country' he was lamenting over the inhumanity of man over man, of how the whites can devise, construct and implement race- and colour-based social and economic injustices over the blacks in apartheid-era South Africa.

The whole world had condemned this practice; we were among the loudest screaming against it.

South Africa has moved on since then, and today it is one shining
example of an emancipated, open and progressive country enjoying a respectable place in the community of nations. It has thrown apartheid into the bins of its history.

Here in Malaysia, yes we condemn apartheid, and quite rightly so. But in the same breath we were and are still its major proponent our version of apartheid.

We do not call it apartheid; of course not. We call it instead
'Ketuanan Melayu' under the guise of 'championing Malay rights,' and implementing it under the New Economic Policy. It's smart, right? In none of them does the word 'apartheid' appear!

Yes, we are smart. We do not blatantly call it apartheid, we merely perfected the process of social separation. First of all we ensure the great majority of civil servants, the police, and the military are manned by Malays (the target benefactors). We give them good salaries, good perks and assured employment. We then devise rules and regulations, and even laws, to ensure the NEP's easy implementation.

We then brainwash our Malay brethren with the notion 'untuk agama bangsa dan negara' that there is a higher ideal beyond performing a duty with professionalism and dedication, and that is doing things in the name of religion and race.

We devise rules and regulations, and even laws, to ensure the NEP's easy implementation.

Then we design and implement social and economic policies like channeling lucrative government contracts, separate education
streams, housing rebates, banking and financial support, in favour of, you guessed it, the Malays.

It does not stop there. We devise measures to prevent the people from raising too much objections to all these by introducing or continuing legislation and religiously implementing them.

The Sedition Act for example stops people from talking too much about language and religion. The Official Secrets Act prevents people from gaining access to government files.

Students and lecturers are not allowed to discuss and make public any subject that would appear to be critical to government (yes, government, not political) policies and philosophies.

All publications must, first of all, get operating licences.
Newspapers must not only get a licence before publishing but it must be renewed every year.

Sacrifices conveniently forgotten

The king of all of the suppressive and oppressive laws is the
Internal Security Act, when a citizen can be put under detention
without the benefit of any charge!

All said and done, we sacrifice the rule of law in favour of rule by
private individuals. To show that we are really smart, we pooh pooh the loyalty and patriotism of the non-Malay segment of the
population.

We call them pendatang or immigrants bearing the stigma that they are social discard from their original country, similar to rogues, rascals, refugees, mercenaries and scoundrels. We just ignore their proven talent and ability in wealth creation and economic productivity, as well as to their demonstrated loyalty and patriotism.

Many of such pendatangs have made the ultimate sacrifices as military personnel defending its security, during the Emergency, the Confrontation period with Indonesia and as policemen while policing the social environment.

They have contributed and are continuing to, in sport and the arts.
Their record as loyal and patriotic Malaysians is quite impeccable.
But we do not really care.

The perplexing thing is that despite these attributes and positive
records of the non-Malays, we are still going about championing and implement apartheid principles. In this new year, perhaps we can do with a little reflection: why are we doing all this?

We do this apparently to recover our lost soul. We perceive that we have been victims of colonization when the Portuguese, Dutch and British colonizers all but butchered the Malay entity, psychology and culture. In the process we perceive that we have lost our Malay identity.

With independence, we thought we could recapture the lost glory of Malay suzerainty by becoming masters of all facets of a nation, especially its commerce, and economy. We found out that the Chinese community had beaten us to it.

We felt the Chinese had capitalised on our weakness and captured the economic initiatives (and wealth) as well as the social characteristics of the country. We lost 'face'.

Now we want to regain the mertabat or dignity and pride of the Malay race!

Yes, we feel that we have to recover our soul and it is here that we are reminded of Paton's book title, but in this case suitably
paraphrased to ? Cry my beloved Malay soul.

Our Malay soul needs to cry for doing the right thing for the wrong reason or the wrong thing for the right reason; even for the wrong thing for the wrong reason, but not for the right thing for the right reason.

To start with colonization is really not an excuse for our
psychological malaise and ineptitude.

Colonization has been a feature of human history and felt all over
the world. There are very few countries that have not been colonized in the world.

It is thus a neutral concept in human social and economic
development. It is certainly not an impediment to social or economic progress as we are wont to portray it. We should dump this notion that we hold dear into the bin of history.

Rethinking our way of thinking

Just look at the records. The Koreans were once colonised by
theJapanese, but today Korea is an industrial power house. Singapore was once colonized by the British and was indeed a part of us, and today we see this tiny country being a solid financial, trading and industrial entity.

Most pointedly of all, the US was once a British colony and today it is the mightiest nation in the world.. Our second grouse - that the Chinese have cornered the economic sector of the country also needs re-looking into, on two counts.

First, the Chinese did not become successful based on any conscious and concerted economic programme to economically marginalise us.

We did this self-inflicted wound ourselves. As proof, we have to note that most of the Chinese came to our shores with only their feet, hands, guts and brains and perhaps a bundle of clothes, nothing more.

They become successful for their hard work, both physically and
mentally and for the sacrifices they were prepared to make and had undertaken. They were successful for having the mental fortitude to seek opportunities, grab those that come along and worked extra hard to realize the potentials of these opportunities.

Secondly, we have been given a chance to be equal with them, both under numerous 'special privileges' enshrined in the Constitution, as well as under its NEP implementation programe.

The special privileges have always been in the constitution while the latter began in 1970. In short, we have been given the chance - the opportunity - many times over, to better our Malay polity.

Whereas the Chinese had to struggle just to find and identify the
opportunities, in our case they were handed to us on a silver platter!

Thus far we have failed to capitalize adequately on them. It rather shameful we missing out on these chances specially created for us in the first place.

Either way the root cause of our weaknesses and the strength of the Chinese lies in two words - positive thinking. Our thinking is mired with so many dos and don'ts, so many musts and musn'ts, so many cans and cannots, may and may nots, plenty enough to created and internalize doubts and fears in our minds.

So much so that we have doubt over what we can and what we can't do, what is allowed and what is not. We spend a lifetime looking for these highly complex cans and cannots, musts and must nots, that we have hardly any mental energy left to develop and self-confidence to get on and face the realities of life.

Let's refer to this case as the 'can't don't and won't syndrome'. The Chinese by the way are not encumbered by such syndromes.

What appears to have happened is that this syndrome has affected our mental ability to conceptualise. We see things on the straight and narrow. We accept wisdoms handed down to us by our elders as the gospel truth.

Blinded by sentiment

We do not see that things can be seen and interpreted in many
alternative ways. We feel we have the monopoly on truth; we therefore think that we are right all the time and other people are wrong all the time. Witness the way we see religion for example.

We think that we as Muslims are right and other people who profess other religions are wrong, all the time.

We need to cry for thinking that we can and have doctored the way the people think and do things. We have been intimidating the people with what they can read or write or think and do.

We seem to be saying "you can think anything, do anything, write
anything so long as it does not criticise or condemn the government".

Soul-searching and resuscitating is not or should not be about
pointing accusing fingers at some bogeys. That would be a most
negative thing to do. It would be better for us to be open-minded and be able to identify our own strengths and weaknesses.

We improve upon our strengths and dump our weaknesses. Mainly we must be able to develop the awareness that we have both the strengths and weaknesses in the first place.

To illustrate, the NEP has proved many time over as a failed strategy for our socio-economic advancement.. Let us be aware of this in the first place and move on seeking other ways with better chance of success.

How about secularizing the Malay mind? It might make for a good start for we can see many of the don'ts, can'ts, musn'ts dissipating into the wind.

In the meantime, here we are in the early days of a new year. We should begin by realising that whatever 'smart' moves we had undertaken all this while have not really been that smart after all.

The joke is on us. Everybody says so ? the liberated Malays, the
non-Malays, our neighbors and the rest of the international
community. Only those of us basking in our closed mind and benefiting from the profits of the status quo say it's alright.

Happy New Year all the same and here's hoping this year we can get a good perspective as to what propagating a good mertabat really means.
It's long overdue.

In the meantime, cry my beloved Malay soul.


Jean-Luc Godard - "To be or not to be. That's not really a
question."

As Unc WW commented it may not necessary be so.
The objective is to vote in an alternative to check each other.
I trust neither. If we can outlive some of the parliament samsengs we can start to hear some intelligent debates.
They have to... (I sincerely hope) now that they know we are more discerning.

...that's what they would love you to think
...being stupid/incompetent is not a crime in MY, see how they always plead ignorance when cornered!
they soon get promoted in MY. CEO doesn't know cash flow
...no one will admit willful omission. ie they know what to do but don't for whatever reasons.

Most of the gomen servants (lords, emperors) may have gone to yr uni & sat thru only that part of the lecture.

Agreed.

WW if they are reading yr comments, you will be conferred a datukship soon
BTW BN/Alliance had 50 years to make it right but didn't.
Their ground rules amongst themselves are all based on race, so we rakyat never get to heal.
Cos...if we heal on our own...race based politics become irrelevant.
Guess which side plays the race card most often & keep fanning it!
They have learnt from the British well.

The fighting within the alternative...that's good in my books...at least we know what each is thinking.
That's what I like to see our parliament be like.
Not everything behind closed door, we rakyat will never know what transpired.
What will you expect in a new marriage! A shotgun one at that.
BN has been screwing us for 50 years.
Alternative has just started to look like they know how. (if it's not propaganda by the BN controlled press)
I will like to see a threesome, BN screw alternative, alternative screw BN, both screw all of us.
Every few years we get to screw 1 of them.

Apologies again if I get carried away.
Politics was thrust into our faces ... I was not looking for it.

Back to swiftlet.
I was reading Pak HM's book & he mentioned bird flight in clockwise & anti clockwise directions as a consideration for the inlet design.
(I dont recall this being discussed in V1).
And Dr Chris's book mentioned that a particular direction is adopted by the whole colony.
What are your observations?
All same direction or mixed or same bird can do both at diff times?
I am still far away from owning a BH to be able to observe as I am still site hunting.
Anyone here runs a standalone BH in Raub or Tg Malim?
I would like to fren fren you to know more of these 2 towns.
I have narrowed it down to these 2 towns for cost & commute considerations only.
I did a bird call test in the middle of Raub town (at an open car park opposite KWSP) this late afternoon, the results wow!

WW, are you saying the direction (clockwise or anti) they fly is conditioned by the entrance placement in established BHs?
Would I be right to think that left/right is only significant for the LARs and not so much the entrance as I will probably go the established way of a big enuff entrance to cater for both left & right drivers?
Sorry if these Qs sound very fundamental to some.
thanks in advance.

PS I too heard some other stuff from the talk given by some gomen dept in paya indah.
Seems there was some mention of RM100K each been provided at district level to start up BHs.
Rough est RM149mil (from budget) split equally gives RM24.8mil each for
1)fruits 2)vegetables 3)organic farming 4)herbs 5)seaweeds 6)swiftlet nests
If their sums are good, at RM100K for each BH, there wil be 248 BHs being built by whom, ownership?, operated under guidance of the gomen dept?

If I fail in my venture & blow my EPF, I will try to get the contract to do birdshit shovelling for these BHs and sell as guano to the other
5 budget initiatives with RM24.8mil each to blow. Siapa ada jalan/saudara/kabel?
I propose to structure the agreement like the hiway concession, if the birds dun give me enuff shit the gomen will have to make up for it.
Then in a proud parliamentary announcement that this is a zero cost initiative to the rakyat as it will be totally mitigated by internal gomen reserves of shit.
After monopoly of birdshit I will make a move on livestock, ....starting with bulls
For once I am within topic of the thread. So no apologies this time.

---

Added on November 3, 2009, 11:59 pmFor the English ver
http://www.agc.gov.my/agc/index.php?option...mid=204&lang=en
scroll to 76
Protection of Wild Life Act 1972
Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar 1972

An extract
“wild bird” means the birds (protected or totally protected)
described in Schedules Three and Four whatever their state of
maturity or immaturity notwithstanding that they may be tamed
or bred in captivity;

Dunsun,
Your point of contention that there isn't any scientific basis of any specie be in any schedule is still valid.
The universal measure is still a count or some formal estimation method that can withstand some scrutiny.
It doesnt (IMHO based on above para read in isolation) hinge on wheter it is wild or domesticated, it hinges on wheter it is in any of the relevant schedule.

PS just found this on the CITES site whcih Malaysia is a member
www.cites.org/eng/cop/10/doc/E10-50.pdf (will read it tomorrow)
My quick browsing gives further justification to your contention.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Nov 3 2009, 11:59 PM

Dunsun, WW,
After perusing the act below, Perhilitan is merely enforcing the present law as it stand.
(Both BM & EN versions from the Attorney General's office
http://www.agc.gov.my/agc/index.php?option...mid=204〈=en
scroll to 76
Protection of Wild Life Act 1972
Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar 1972)

In my layman opinion, we can only challenge why Collocalia fuciphaga is still in jadual 4 despite the CITES stating that it is not in any imminent risk.

extract.....
Conclusions and Recommendations of the Workshop
14. Edible nest swiftlets are widespread and abundant across their historical range. Their aggregate populations
are estimated as tens of millions, based on current yields from nest harvesting. Despite documented declines in some cave populations, there is no immediate conservation risk.

Management
20. Ensuring the sustainability of swiftlet nest harvesting will also require attention to the following:
21. – monitoring of cave populations – this can be done by population survey and/or trade data. Trade data give minimum estimates of total population size. Population surveys should use standardized techniques and practical sampling strategies;
22. – mechanisms for controlling harvests;
23. – ability to adapt management in the light of new information or results of monitoring;
24. – periodic reviews to evaluate the effectiveness of management regimes;
25. – in the interest of conserving the genetic integrity of wild populations, establishment of swiftlet nest houses undertaken using local stock; and
26. – the participation of local communities in management, noting that enabling them to share economic
benefits is likely to increase the effectiveness of harvest regulations.
end extract.....
http://www.cites.org/eng/cop/10/doc/E10-50.pdf

So, why is Perhilitan still adamant on keeping it in Jadual 4?
Is it in adherence to pt 21 above on trade data?
If only Perhilitan does a better job of selling the idea that they are also working in the interest of the swiftlet & the EBN industry by collating statistic which will plainly favour the EBN industry!
Perhilitan can take the initiative & turn this to their advantage by utilising some of the recent budget money to build BH for our asli brothers (who are harvesting the cave nests) which will lessen the pressure on the cave swiftlets and a chance to rebound. (cant help if it's is caused by habitat destruction in the immediate environment).
This is an opportunity for Perhilitan to regain their standing in the eyes of the world.
For now, simplify the process in obtaining the licences, 3in1 process?
Go on a roadshow to educate the BH owners Perhilitan is on the same side as the EBN industry.
(It will be no lie as more swiftlets means we succeed & you also succeed).
Simplify the process of communication between the two.
PM will surely take notice of this turnaround, instead of complaints against you you will be facilitating the trade & you recover the cave population. Win Win. ..........Perhilitan BERANI?...........


I certainly do not know your job & will not pretend to tell you what to do.
No offence intended.
Just a humble citizen's challenge to PERHILITAN to rise to the occasion.

Dunsun,
even Perhilitan is not above the law.
There is no definition of wild & wild is not used by itself in the act.
There are definitions of wild animal & wild bird in the act.
IMHO Perhilitan's jurisdiction are over those species in the schedules NOT because it is WILD.
This is what my layman understanding of the act.

I wasn't, what with their selective notice...so now you know, there were goodies to be dished out..
I heard from a friend who had teh tarik with some participants in the night. Gomen folks acquainted thru angling activities.
Me thinks that the neatest way to fix this in the following manner.
Refine Collocalia in the schedule into Cave (or some other clever description to specifically exclude man made structure) dwelling & Non Cave dwelling to satisfy the dissenting view of dwindling cave populations.
There is ordy sufficient scientific study to differentiate Fuciphagus from Domesticus.
As CITES specifically does not compel member states to any specific classification, this is feasible.
extract.....
15. The taxonomy of the swiftlets is confusing, with several different nomenclatures in use (Sibley and Monroe,
1990, followed by CITES; Chantler and Driessens, 1995; Cranbrook et al., 1996). There is no obligation
on scientists or managers to use any one nomenclature either now or in the future but there should always
be a clear indication of which is being used. Er et al. (1995) provide a list of synonyms which may assist
people in understanding the situation more fully.
end extract.....

I assume we are talking about the same Dr Chris?
He has his own website at
http://www.swiftletfarming.com.my/
His wares are available online

Found an interesting link to the differentiation of Collocolia into Fuciphagus & Domesticus
http://www.slideshare.net/yongkangbirdnest...lets-specialist
I do not know who put these together or it's sufficiently authoritative.
I may not have been very clear in my earlier posting, these are my thoughts in the eventuality that the one stop centre proposal doesnt take off.
1)Lobby you local MP to raise a private member bill in parliament to differentiate Collocalia into Fuciphagas & Domesticus.
Notice there IS research to attest to the differentiation, thus far there is NO research to challenge this. This way Perhilitan is removed from the picture altogether and only takes care of Fuciphagus which in reality really require their full attention. Also this will afford opportunities to better allocate their ALWAYS-short enforement resources. Since this forum has active members spread throughout, I think it is a worthwhile and feasible effort.

Ooops.. I meant Aerodramus

Hi,
Anyone heard this?
A friend who listens to the radio channel told me about it.
That the govt is inviting mainland Chinese to come invest in the BN business in Iskandar?
I scanned the papers but didnt find any report on this in the papers the next day.

Bobby C,
Aside from ranting here to let off steam (which each of us frequently do ), I propose the following
1)Education
We need to be on our toes & at every opportunity correct the bad press that seems to be coming our way.
eg (Star 04/Dec) - Local authority plans to look into ways to legalise swiftlet breeders
Extract ###
indiscriminate 'breeding' is inconveniencing the public & 'may' even pose a health hazard
The Kuala Selangor local council after 'hot discussions' is proposing
~ a yearly RM1,000 licence fee
~ centralising BHs ...... (he he I feel the temp rising)
End Extract ###
My observation - past BH reports are by the same reporter (benefit of the doubt given, that the reporter covers this area as part of his work).
I feel a serious lack of education on BN biz in the report. If the reporter was just reporting a press release that's fine but I think he/she could have done better if a certain degree of investigative journalism was applied.
If after some education the reporter continue on the same bias, then it becomes obvious......there's an agenda

2)Legislation
Propose we lobby our local MP to initiate a private member's bill to amend the WildLife Act to refine Aerodramus Fuciphagus into Domesticus & Fuciphagus. - (if you can't arrest the cancer... cut if off).
It does not matter which party the MP is from. In the process we will also test your MP if he/she has your interest at heart for our next exercise of our votes.
If as many here have implied that there is a conspiracy.. selective licensing of BHs & export/import licenses etc, then here is your opportunity to let both parties fight it out in the open. Let them dig & hang out the dirty linen. That's the power of a 2 party system which we must milk for the betterment of our beloved country. This is democracy, if one don't use it one only shortchange oneself. In the process one become an informed Malaysian.

Anyone who is on the DL task force appreciate you PM me with contact so I may start a conversation on how I may volunteer my time in some ways. Thanks

DL=David Lim, there is/was (not sure if it still exist) a task force formed by volunteers to fire fight when all hell broke loose towards the end of last year & the early part of this year. I wont repeat it here. You will need to read it up at V1 & initial part of this thread.
search for 'swiftlet' on this site, you will find bothe V1 & V2 (current thread).
I wasn't proposing to take anything to the cabinet. Your local MP has a right and responsibility to introduce new/amend laws too. It doesn't have to be the cabinet to initiate them though sadly that's how anything get's done in M'sia. There is a campaign by the Bar Council to 're-aquaint' the M'sian constitution to the general public. There was a writeup in the paper abt the campaign 2-4 weeks ago, but the campaign proper was not carried by the mainstream papers. To be fair I have not googled for the campaign on the net myself, truth be told I am cynical of the mainstream papers to their impartiality knowing that they are mostly controlled either thru political parties of thru current legislation. My point of these info is... know your rights then you know what you can or cannot do... legally and your local MP has the right & responsibility.

There are folks here on this forum that contributed to the fire fighting during the recent crisis. Don't lose hope, decency is still alive here. If we keep analysing the situation and not do anything..what some folks call analysis- paralysis..nothing is improved. I for one is not willing to sit around to find the worst hitting me unprepared. If I lose I lose trying opposed to not doing anything. Remember you are not powerless.. you chose to change it or sit and wait for whatever that is dished out to you..your choice.
Wheter any association gets hijacked politically or not doesnt really matter at this moment. Like what a Siamese forumer here mentioned ...politics kind of catch up on you if you are in any business.
Point being... We do what we can to each of our ability and hope not be overly disappointed if we fail.

All the more we shdnt accept a bad system. Not just not accepting but do something... not just talk amongst friends.. write to the papers. Share your feelings about a particular situation. Sooner or later (I hope sooner) a critical mass of like minded vocal people will be achieved and pressure will build up for changes to take place. Recall the last election? People are working to have local elections, so there is hope.. if you stand up and be counted. There is nothing wrong or illegal about it, it;s you right.

Curious, did Perhilitan/DVS made the claim in black & white. I would like to know their research objectives. wonder if they will include this in their KPI? or maybe they are waiting for the next budget for funding? Since M'sia is a signatory to CITES & the only scientific recommendation I recall reading was to perform DNA analysis to get a finer understanding.

My apologies. I want no part of anything that further dwell on things that divide us. There have a tendency to take on a life of their own.

I am not advocating any provocation or confrontation with anybody. I did not bring them up; so do not know what they are sensitive to & I do not much care. Is it my job to keep sensitive issues away from them? Shape up or ship out.
If any MP introduces the private bill & the minister in charge of Perhilitan can rebut the scientific finding, pls do so, that's what Parliament is for. This action is above board and should be viewed as such. If they react in a juvenile way, and repeat the raids, you know how to cast your next vote.
My friends. there is only 1 root cause for Perhilitan. The bird is on the schedule. .. tell me why if you think otherwise..., the other issue of noise nuisance should be allowed to take it's course cos' we all know is true and we all will be better for it. See how reasonable I am
Enuff of ranting, tidur-le

---

Added on December 8, 2009, 2:08 amWW, you are shameless,.... but the again, credit when credit is due



This post has been edited by Cergau: Dec 8 2009, 02:08 AM

Dunsun, maybe you will want to put in a suggestion that the stakeholders be provided a briefing before the release to the public. What my cynical mind fear is that the 'understanding' achieved at the S'ban workshop may not be worked into the guidelines in the final form. With so many interested parties, the one with the cable to the top will swing the guidelines to their advantage. If it's all inclusive with all parties interest included then it's OK. I only fear that 1 party gains from the lost of another.

I am a little wary though, as my understanding was the the Vet dept was to be setting the policies and Perhilitan & the PBTs are the implementation parties. Are these later parties also involved in the formulation of a complete set of guidelines that will be deployed at each state? Reading from earlier posts the local PBTs are at liberty to 'modify' the Federal guidelines (I am assuming that the final guidelines will be considered 'Federal'). This is not criticism, just me thinking aloud.

---

Added on December 13, 2009, 2:01 pmWW,
Don't think the agenda is hidden. It's obvious. They see it just as legitimate as your BH. It's the bias actions that were carried out that stinks of an intention to curtail one party for the benefit of another that is most infuriating to most.

In my reading of the Act (which applies to Peninsular only), they have acted within the law. They can do so even without a warrant. (Just a layman's interpretation of the Act).
As to wheter they can kill ? (this debatable...see extracts below, especially sec 2 of clause 92). Maybe in the Mukah episode they have 'caused to kill' not 'kill'. Again just my 2sen as I can't debate this as I am not a lawyer.

"Search without warrant
7. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in section 6 a Director for Wild Life and National Parks, a Deputy Director for Wild Life and National Parks or an Assistant Director for Wild Life and National Parks may without a search warrant stop and search any vehicle or enter and search any dwelling house, shop, business premises or other building where—
(a) acting under a warrant of arrest or exercising his powers to arrest without a warrant of arrest under this Act, he
has reason to suspect that the person to be arrested is in the vehicle or dwelling house, shop, business premises
or other building;
(b) the Director for Wild Life and National Parks, Deputy Director for Wild Life and National Parks or Assistant
Director for Wild Life and National Parks finds any person committing or attempting to commit an offence or
suspected of having committed an offence under this Act and follows or pursues that person to the vehicle
or dwelling house, shop, business premises or other building; or
© the Director for Wild Life and National Parks, Deputy Director for Wild Life and National Parks or Assistant
Director for Wild Life and National Parks is satisfied on written information received that an offence under this
Act is being committed in the vehicle or dwelling house, shop, business premises or other building or land,
and may seize any wild animal or wild bird or part thereof or any book or record required to be kept under this Act, trophy, poison or net capable of being used to take any wild animal or wild bird or other article which was the subject matter of or was used or suspected to be used in the commission of any offence under this Act. "

"Wild life officers may shoot, etc., any wild animals or wild birds even if totally protected
53. Any officer acting bona fide in the exercise of his powers may shoot, kill or take any wild animal or wild bird if—
(a) the wild animal or wild bird is a danger to human life or property;
(b) it is necessary or expedient to prevent undue suffering on the part of the wild animal or wild bird; or
© he is accompanying the holder of a special permit issued under section 51.

Cruelty to wild life
92. (1) Save as otherwise provided in this section every person who—
(a) beats, kicks, infuriates, terrifies or tortures any wild animal or wild bird;
(b) neglects to supply sufficient food or water to any wild animal or wild bird which he houses, confines or
breeds;
© houses, confines or breeds any wild animal or wild bird in such a manner so as to cause it unnecessary pain or
suffering including the housing, confining or breeding of any wild animal or wild bird in any cage, enclosure
or hut which is not suitable for or conducive to the comfort or health of the wild animal or wild bird;
(d) uses any wild animal for performing or assisting in the performance of any work or labour which by reason of
any infirmity, wound, disease or any other incapacity it is unfit to perform;
(e) uses, incites, provokes or infuriates any wild animal or wild bird for the purpose of baiting it or for fighting
with any other wild animal or wild bird or manages any premises or place for any of these purposes;
(f ) wilfully does or wilfully omits to do anything which in any way causes any unnecessary suffering, pain or
discomfort to any wild animal or wild bird, is guilty of an offence and shall on conviction be liable to a fine
not exceeding five thousand ringgit or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding three years or to both.
(2) This section shall not apply to any person who wounds any wild animal or wild bird in the course of lawfully shooting, killing or taking it under and subject to this Act. "


This post has been edited by Cergau: Dec 13 2009, 02:01 PM

Bobby C,
Care to share where u got those figures from?
I may have missed some articles.
Thanks

Bobby C, thks

Bro Dunsun,
You missed 1 seemingly insignificant & unrelated report in the same paper that signals (to my mind anyway.. long conditioned by predictable reactions from our officials) the beginning of an enforcement campaign prompted by the soon to be released National Geographic story.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5957&sec=nation
Maybe the NG story ought to be banned (paint over the offending story black at least ) ... because it definitely offends gentle Malaysians' sensitivities.
Just that I am not certain whcih 1 of the 2 ways (or both) I will be offended ie
1)I know I live within a cess pool of corruption & I feel offended that a foreign publication need to remind me and the whole world. Feels like having salt rubbed into my wounds...... OR
2)We M'sians definitely do not have corrupted officials as depicted in the report. It is just Western jealousy that we still hold a good portion of god given natural diversities ($). I am offended that Western publications impose their misguided beliefs & opinion on us. We have out own way & we are proud of the way. See how we handled the 1997 Asian currency crisis!!! We have proven to the world the M'sian way works and that includes parachuting a Proton onto the North pole..(we forgot why we did that, though it was sponsored with tax money).
($) Westener's claims that we rape mother nature by the thousands of hectares while they fail to recognise & be grateful that we provide westerners' backsides with wooden toilet seats & oil to fry their burger & fries !! We actually 'green' the earth with rows of neat & uniformly green oil palm trees....after. That's nature improved!.

AND while I am on a roll ... allow me (pretend YB) the opportunity to dispute Malaysian's baseless claims that the BN industry can provide the same & more income (& distributed for that matter) to the country without the rape. To let you (poor, unelected, ungrateful, misguided, non-crony citizenry) in on a little secret.. without all the failures in our systems, there is nothing to improve and fix! Making failed systems work is known as progress.. you wouldn't want to stand in the way of progress, would you? When all the rape results in our water sources disappearing, we DEVELOP a unique system to pump water from some UNDEVELOPED areas, we spend your money to fix things gone wrong after the DEVELOPMENT. That generates GROWTH! Otherwsie. where got job to get money to build BHs?
3)How I know? Because you elected me to speak on your behalf & to be honest... I know better. Incase of confusion & a need for clarification , go back to pt 3. There is a dire need for us patriotic citizens to make the jump to a higher income economy (though I have no idea what it means so just trust me). What I assure you is, you will definitely need more money to cover your basic needs in the near future so it may be common sense. While the debate is on deregulating sugar & petroleum fuel, we are are also thinking of charging for the air you breathe after we identify a party to privatise this to. Since we ordy signed the copenhagen thingy & polluting industries will be crying foul, the air tax may be used to offset the carbion credit that our pampered industry cannot afford to pay for.

Getting back to point
Putting all known credits from 1Paper in 1Spot from 1Year (see below *), to provide a proper setting for Act1 of the play titled..
A)"Damned if I do, Damned if I don't" .... (subtitled "Saya enfore u cakap saya terlalu, saya tak enforce u cakap banyak")
In a world tour, some cities where thew play is expected to play to full house ..(PutraJaya for example) it is alternatively titled..
B)"The best form of defence is attack" OR
C)"If you can't convince.... confuse" OR
D)ALL of the above
(from above*... the credits)
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...2208&sec=nation
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...6&sec=starprobe
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...0003&sec=nation
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...9622&sec=nation
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...8&sec=starprobe
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...9&sec=starprobe
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...56685&sec=focus
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5327&sec=nation
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...0428&sec=nation

To ensure I go back to being miserable, I share with you....my misery... thus
http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...068&sec=central


Ooooooh I am feeling better already
So, off to bed.

Dear WW,
Thanks for your concern & advice.
I am a law abiding citizen with only love and concern for the well being of my country and only distaste for ANY government of the day who does a lousy job of governing (at least in my opinion).
Lousy administration is bad. Only thing worst is for someone who instead of facilitating, be actively acting against what's good for the country and with bad intent.

Yes, I believe revenge persecution happens. Do you stand & fight or succumb?
Does anyone here care to speculate on the reason, civil servants came to be civil masters?
To quote...
"All it takes for Evil to prevail in this world is for enough good men to do nothing"
Just my 2 bit.

---

Added on January 2, 2010, 11:43 pmWW,
I recall past mentions here before of wide disparity in prices.
1)Is there a annual cycle with some festivities of the largest consumer country having a direct bearing to the prices?
2)Is there a local cartel manipulating the prices?
3)You also are the local birdnest buffer manager?

The 3rd Qs begs another (merely peeking ahead a little) ie if we need to bring some sophistication to stabilise the price fluctuations
May be a wild idea



This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 2 2010, 11:43 PM

Swiftlailai,
See my last post. My questions too. I was hoping some of the sifus here can shed some light here.
My source of knowlege is limited somewhat to this forum.
Sifus here pls correct amend as appropriate.
There are 3 distinct core roles in this business
1)Sanctuary providers
2)Middleman purchasers
3)Exporters
There are numerous peripheral support roles eg
birdnest cleaners, equipment providers, birdhouse constructors, consultants etc.
There are capable folks who play multiple roles too.
Thus far I know of Merchant Associations & Birdhouse Owners Associations.

Without official intervention (which I am sure many here will not want to see happening) for a 'birdnest exchange', my sense now, it is pretty much market driven ie by the middleman (which will be very much opaque to the rest.)
WestWing mentioned that he was buying up birdnest when the price was low to try to maintain the then prevailing price. In essence he was actually functioning partly as a buffer stock manager. This can be rewarding when prices are low and you have the financial resources. A full buffer stock manager will also sell cheap when the price is sky high to the benefit of the exporter. Thus a win-win for all roles. I can only see a govt body in such a full buffer stock role though. Also a fear, we have a history of being lousy with the natural rubber buffer stock.

My primary concern is with the sanctuary providers... they can only influence prices somewhat by controlling the availability of the birdnest. But the merchants/exporters will have a larger stock wouldn't they? This will have dire price consequence if stock are released even in a controlled market. But this is favorable to the existing situation, where they need not mantain any stock & merely just pays what they wish to buy at. There simply isnt enough statistic to work anything towards 'fair' pricing. Just maybe the purchasers are thus functioning as the unofficial exchange/cum buffer stock without having to actually stock anything.

Well maybe it;s too early to discuss these?
My other concern is that some countries will seize the opportunity and actually start a 'birdnest-exchange' and then control pricing.
Just thinking aloud.

To answer your question directly.. there are no price guides, just market driven by the latest market gossip and what the middleman/exporter spouts and wishes you to hear (a little like the stock market)