Hi Guys:

I catch no balls!!!

Short short dei

Why suddenly all our posts (post 141 to 170) missing in action?

Hijacked by somebody? Someone purposely deleted them? Did we discuss "X" files here?

Luckily I did save in my labtop.

Do u want me to post them back again?

Yes, Why not!

We suffered a major database crash this morning caused firstly by diskspace issues, and secondly a missing InnoDB journal.

Backups have been restored from the previous day, but any new data (posts and PMs) from 5AM 24th Feb are permanently gone.

We will be investigating further, and will implement measures to avoid this in the future. On behalf of the LYN team, I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you.


Guys...system problem.

We suffered a major database crash this morning caused firstly by diskspace issues, and secondly a missing InnoDB journal.

Backups have been restored from the previous day, but any new data (posts and PMs) from 5AM 24th Feb are permanently gone.

We will be investigating further, and will implement measures to avoid this in the future. On behalf of the LYN team, I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you.

Added on February 25, 2009, 2:32 pmOh, and the good news is that if you were banned yesterday, you would probably escape the ban

By The Administrator

WKKAY


For your info, nothing happen,

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Added on February 25, 2009, 5:35 pmOriginal Post 140 by coolandy

We are in this forum only for Swiftlet related issues.

For those with personal scores that need to be settled, please do so in your own private mail. Your contributions on swiftlet matters will always be treasured.

Keep RELIGION & RACE issues OUT of this forum PLEASE.

Even I have been attacked for not being sincere in my postings but I chose not to respond. You all can do likewise to cool down. Adding oil and stoking the fire will not bring forth any solutions.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Yesterday, 09:44 AM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 5:39 pmOriginal Post 141 by ChanK

The Only Guideline that we can use is the national guideline of 2005, we can make use of that guideline and see what we can add in or take out.

Anyone can upload it here by section for all members to study it.

Guys again don't waste your time with him.

I thank all my friends who try to defend for me, it is ok. I am nobody so don't worry about me. As long as I have nests to harvest every week, i am very happy liao. Who said what i don't care as deep down i never done any harm to anyone in the swiftlet farming industry, that is more than enough to me. No problem been sabotage when you did no wrong to anyone. Liked D.L. said, ` We have done no harm or bad things to anyone, even we walked around a dark ally in the middle of the night, we have no fear.". So, i thank you again for all the support i got. But of course, i will expose any swiftlet predators that i came across with no remorse. And the other way round, if someone think that i am a predator to him, they can expose me too. No regret, i die as A Normal Human Being.

It happened few years ago when perak farmers facing great danger of been instructed to close down all the farms in town. Then the association decides to arrange a meeting with the govt officer ( i forgot who liao, i think from MCA or gerakan). On that morning, over hundreds of farmers, including ah mah, waiting outside the street and waiting for one man to come, he is no other but Mr David Lim. Though he accompanied by the Perak BN Association President, the farmers instead of welcoming the president, they all rush to Mr David Lim and great him and thank him for taking the time to come to Perak to fight for them eventhough Mr David Lim do not own any farms in Perak. Even Ah mah's all hugs him.

In the meeting, He is the main negotiator to discuss the matter with the Govt officer questioning him what he is doing.


Any of us here been greeted by someone you have not even meet before but they treat you liked a Hero??

So, you can sabotage me but don't even f***ing dares to talk bad about D.L. !!!!!!!



DL do have peoples helping him but unfortunately most of them busy with their own business and have limited time to spare.Some of the lawyers are not familiar in drafting a swiftlet farming guideline.

Focus on the main issue. Delete all the noises from your mind. Concentrate.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 10:12 AM

This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Feb 25 2009, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(coolandy @ Feb 24 2009, 09:40 AM)
We are in this forum only for Swiftlet related issues.

For those with personal scores that need to be settled, please do so in your own private mail. Your contributions on swiftlet matters will always be treasured.

Keep RELIGION & RACE issues OUT of this forum PLEASE.

Even I have been attacked for not being sincere in my postings but I chose not to respond. You all can do likewise to cool down. Adding oil and stoking the fire will not bring forth any solutions.


Good Point. coolandy !!

This post has been edited by ChanK: Feb 25 2009, 06:34 PM

Original Post 142 by CWG

All,

Below are my comments regarding the Garis Panduan posted in World of Swiftlet Farming.

1) On line 5.1 (ii) & (iii) - I am not sure whether it still applicable as item 5.0 is applied to BH already exist. Will the official going to check back the history of the shop lot and ask the owner to close down the BH if it does not meet "bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu sahaja"? Btw, what is the defination of terbiar pada satu tempoh tertenty sahaja? 2 years, 3 years or longer???

2) On line 5.1 (iV) - Instead of specify the distance with respect to "dinding premis", can we use the distance with respect to the source of sound (Ext Tweeters)?

3) On line 6.1.1 - Can we include "Kawasan perniagaan yang terbiar for X years"?

4) On line 6.1.4 - Can we use the distance with respect to the Ext Tweeter? My BH build on shop lot with housing area at the back of my BH separated by ~ 5 meters width of road. Because of that, my entrance hole is designed at the front side. The distance from the Ext Tweeter to housing area is > 10 meters and I cannot hear any sound when I stand at the back of my BH.

5) On line 6.2.4 (ii) - Why Kawasan Pertanian Tanaman padi need to limit to 3 storey?

6) On line 7.0 - There are so many Jabatan need to go through for licience apporaval. This will take year to approve with a lot of kopi money. Can we simplify the process?

7) On line 9.0 (i) - Bird sound is a MUST especially for new BH. Ultrasonic is proven not working.


http://yenyen-swiftlet-farming.blogspot.com/

My worst fear had happened. This is a letter from one of my friend in sarawak.


"

Today I received the worse news ever! The forestry people also asking
people to open up the stand along BH in agriculture land. My friend
in Sibu gena and tomorrow morning he has to confront the enforcers. I
did the wrong decision in submitting my stand along BH to forestry.
The forestry has broke their promise. They promise that as long as we
submit our agriculture land BH they will give license. Now we only
realize that they are fooling us just to fish information from us by
providing the location of our BH to them. The forestry here is a
bloody IDIOT! " Sarawak farmer.



This post has been edited by ChanK: Feb 25 2009, 05:56 PM

Original Post 143 by Engineer Lee

4.0 i. "Semua pemajuan premis burung walet perlu mendapatkan kelulusan Kebenaran Merancang"

I think this sentence can be shortened become : "Semua pemajuan premis burung walet perlu mendapatkan kelulusan sijil Perakuan Siap dan Pematuhan (CCC) daripada PBT berkenaan sebelum lesen premis diluluskan."

I believe this clause will only affect the standalone BH. A shoplot type BH will have OC obtained, it's non-issue here. (Unless it is an abandoned project) Please take note that under this requirement, there shall be no license given to abandoned projects (projects without OC).

CCC=Certificate of Completion & Compliance = OC = Occupation Certificate = CF = Certificate of Fitness

For shoplot type BH, when an OC obtained, we do not need to show kelulusan merancang and building approval plan any more because without these two definitely OC won't be given. We can skip these two documents and minimize time for searching documents from the architect and can expedite the processing of license approval.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

5.1.V "Kebenaran bertulis daripada pemilik premis bersebelahan dari premis...10 meter"

This is disastrous!

Why not we follow back what have been practiced by PBT for a new property development?

For a new development's planning approval, normally, the architect will do the search (carian) of the neigbor's lots or premises (within the specified radius: in this case is 10 m) and he will submit the search result to the PBT. PBT will then issue letters to the owners and informing them about the new development. If no "bantahan"/objection within a certain grace period, PBT will construe the silence as consent. If there is "bantahan" then PBT will consider it case by case and will study on what grounds they object (e.g, access problems,...). PBT can overrule the "bantahan" if it is baseless.

Why we should take trouble to ask permission from the neighbors? What if the neighbors are not around? What if they are overseas? Or already passed away? Then looking for next-of-kin? Wow, can you imagine how painstaking it will be?

As such, we have better change it to:

5.1.V Pemilik premis bersebelahan yang berada kurang daripada 5m dari premis rumah walet (may I propose shorter distance?) sahaja diizinkan untuk membuat bantahan berdasarkan sebab yang munasabah dan bantahan perlu dibuat dalam tempoh masa yang ditentukan oleh PBT.

This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Today, 07:21 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 5:58 pmOriginal Post 144 by Bobby C

Hi Lucas & guys,

Many thanks for your good works, not just talk but many actions. Will check WOG see what I can contribute after reading many books, seminar and 1 yr exp. Past experiences in bldg industry does help. If there is an architect will be better, can contribute more on bldg by-laws, councils point of views ect.

Let's not reply unnecesarily and get into emotional garbage. Just ignore. Typical 'Singaporean Syndrome- like to argue and make fuss' if you call it. Let's the bug stop here and get back to main topic.

Apologise if I say anything wrong or hurt anyone. Thks.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:04 pmOriginal Post 145 by ChanK

The Selangor BN Association is issuing sticker to all members. Each member will obtained a sticker that they will stick to the front door. Details of Owner name, contact no. is included.

Owners need to apply the sticker with proven document that the farm belongs to him.

This is a good practice as many times neighbours complains but did not know who is the owner and ends up complain to govt dept and make it into a bigger issue.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:06 pmOriginal Post 146 by vegachia

hi, all sifu here,i am really scare and worry about swiftlet farming recently, coz the (Garis Panduan)new guide will come out this year,right???

actually what is happend now?????what should the newbie need to do now??
coz my standalone BH is still in processing in construction..

should i stop the project for my standalone BH????
any sifu can give me advice????

please.........................help.......................................................................................................................................................sos

This post has been edited by vegachia: Today, 11:09 AM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:08 pmOriginal Post 147 by West Wing

QUOTE(coolandy @ Feb 24 2009, 09:40 AM)
We are in this forum only for Swiftlet related issues.

For those with personal scores that need to be settled, please do so in your own private mail. Your contributions on swiftlet matters will always be treasured.

Keep RELIGION & RACE issues OUT of this forum PLEASE.

Even I have been attacked for not being sincere in my postings but I chose not to respond. You all can do likewise to cool down. Adding oil and stoking the fire will not bring forth any solutions.
*



Fully agreed with you as this forum seem to light with fire.........he give a right punch and you give a left hook and both end up with black eyes.

Shouldn't have criticize DL or even to comment on him as he is trying to help us and if anyone has been invited or can be present in the meetings, I will render him my full support and I believe we all here will feel the same. So, please never pass bad comment or criticize someone unless you do have a better idea or that you find him unsuitable for the job. If I can get myself into the meeting, I would welcome all support for me and all information will be deeply appreciated and if possible support of any form is welcome.....morally or otherwise but never criticize for that will make me feel real sour and I would not be able to think well and that will affect my work...............and that will affect all of us. Criticize only if you can do better or that you must be there to present your paper; otherwise, keep quiet if you cannot contribute, post if you do.

No offence, pls. and not intended for anyone in particular.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:12 pmOriginal Post 148 by Lucas 1


QUOTE(vegachia @ Feb 24 2009, 11:08 AM)
hi, all sifu here,i am really scare and worry about swiftlet farming recently, coz the (Garis Panduan)new guide will come out this year,right???

actually what is happend now?????what should the newbie need to do now??
coz my standalone BH is still in processing in construction..

should i stop the project for my standalone BH????
any sifu can give me advice????

please.........................help.......................................................................................................................................................sos
*




There is no need to be over worried till you can't eat and sleep. Since you have already started then just continue to finish. As to those planning to start and still haven't started, please apply for the necessary building or renovation plan approval from the councils first to avoid future complication. Don't be misled by the irresponsible "consultant" or contractor that to proceed to do it without prior approval as others did it before. The one facing trouble later is you and not your consultant.

Remember, it is the local Govt uniform building by-law that all renovations or repairs require prior approval from council. Renovation of a BH and application for the approval of BH license are two separate issues. Do not be confused. Many a times, BHs get summoned because of illegal building or renovation without prior approval. It is not so much a BH licensing issue as majority of Majlis are still not having the guidelines to issue BH license. For those new BH standalone type in rural may expect technical complication if they did not obtain prior approval on building plan before they built.
Generally, it is not so much complicated issue pertaining to Standalone BH on agricultural or rural land if you have obtained building approval before you built. Please seek qualified town planner, architect or civil engineer's advice as to how to rectify the situation. Don't seek those unqualified Majlis junior staff's opinion.

For those who didn't have prior approved plan may cause some holes in your pocket. How big the hole is depends on situation.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:16 pmOriginal Post 149 by ian oh

[/B] 5.1V Kebenaran bertulis daripada premis bersebelahan...

This might cause a lot of problems for those who want to set up a new farm...

1) not everyone on good term with neighbour
2) there are those who oppose for the sake of opposing
3) some will say "i have nothing to gain from your venture so why bother to trouble myself"
4) some with genuine concerns on health and noise

Of course there are those who understand the issue and will cooperate but majority believed in bad publicity partly contributed by irresponsible farmer. Instead of getting written permission, it is better to give the neighbour a 'Buku Panduan' each so that they can have a better understanding of swiftlet farming.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:18 pmOriginal Post 150 by vegachia

since i already started build BH in agriculture land then that mean i no need apply the approval from council again??????
just continue my project building????

actually which land is serious for the problem kacau from council???agriculture land or town shoplot land??????


i heard from my friend,he said that agriculture land is safety if compare to town shop land,coz there have no law against the agriculture building design, is it true?

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:21 pmOriginal Post 151 by West Wing

5.1.V "Kebenaran bertulis daripada pemilik premis bersebelahan dari premis...10 meter"

This is impossible as no neightbour will willfully write a consent letter for BH...I know that I wouldn't if I am not in the buz. Suggestion: Should there be 3 written complaints from your neightbours concerning your BH, you will be given a notice to reply to the authorities, failure to do so, action will be taken against your BH.

Added on February 24, 2009, 3:27 pm5.1.V "Pemilik premis bersebelahan yang berada kurang daripada 5m dari premis rumah walet (may I propose longer distance?) diizinkan untuk membuat bantahan berdasarkan sebab yang munasabah dan bantahan perlu dibuat dalam tempoh masa yang ditentukan oleh PBT.

This lagi worst.....we will accept complaints from all thru our Association and the Association will try to resolve the matter thru dialog or meeting with the neighbours concerned. These, all BH owners must cooperate but I find that afew BH owners are kurang ajar.......never listen, like it is their grandfather's right to do what they want!!!!!!! I personally have received some complaints and lucky all listened except a few.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Today, 03:27 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 6:23 pmOriginal Post 152 by ChanK

A copy Of Garis Panduan Permohonan Lesen Premis Perusahaan Sarang Burung Walit, 2005, This is a national guideline issued 2005. See what we can use and what we need to take out and what to add in.

D.L. also reminded us to take a look at Parit Buntar guideline to apply for license as that version is very easy n fair to all parties. D.L. helped in drafting/gives advices on writing the Parit Buntar Guideline too.

Anyone here from Parit Buntar and can scan a copy to share with us?.


http://worldofswiftletfarming.blogspot.com...sen-premis.html

This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 03:36 PM



This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Feb 25 2009, 06:30 PM

kanasai.....like this all family die liao lor. CK is it true or not,if they not spare standalone then crazy liao this time

This post has been edited by kuching_farmer: Feb 25 2009, 07:31 PM

Don’t know whether Dusuntutmybuntut has saved his posts? DL considered his very constructive and factual. Anybody can help re-post his posts again? Of course, there are also others’ (can’t remember the nicks) inputs reg the drafted GL which are very useful and positive for DL group to consider in their reasoning with the authority soon. Unfortunately they are lost. Will those who posted on this repost again? We want only good stuff.


Since we experienced such crash, we don’t like to take chance. We better standby another site. If this happens again, we shall have no choice but to change platform. Just imagine 30 plus to 40 valuable info and brainwork just lost? At this crucial time? What a coincident?

Kuching-farmer,

it is true. Pls spread this news to your friends. And check if this is happening in other state.

Get Uncle Ben advice on what to do next.


..

This post has been edited by ChanK: Feb 26 2009, 07:40 AM

Original Post 153 by Engineer Lee

QUOTE(CWG @ Feb 24 2009, 10:20 AM)
All,

Below are my comments regarding the Garis Panduan posted in World of Swiftlet Farming.

1) On line 5.1 (ii) & (iii) - I am not sure whether it still applicable as item 5.0 is applied to BH already exist. Will the official going to check back the history of the shop lot and ask the owner to close down the BH if it does not meet "bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu sahaja"? Btw, what is the defination of terbiar pada satu tempoh tertenty sahaja? 2 years, 3 years or longer???

I think 2 years is ok (coz after 24 months of defects and liability period). "bangunan terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu"? Meaning that residential house can be converted to BH if let it "terbiar". Terbiar means : nobody buys? rundown no maintenance?

2) On line 5.1 (iV) - Instead of specify the distance with respect to "dinding premis", can we use the distance with respect to the source of sound (Ext Tweeters)?
Q: Can u expect our enforcer climb up the BH and measure the distance between the tweeters and the neigbor's house by deploying total station (surveying equipment)?


3) On line 6.1.1 - Can we include "Kawasan perniagaan yang terbiar for X years"? 100% agreed, good idea!

5) On line 6.2.4 (ii) - Why Kawasan Pertanian Tanaman padi need to limit to 3 storey?
This may be due to softer soil profile of paddy field, most of them is peat (Correct me if I am wrong). Not good and can cause great settlement. This is why the construction/foundation cost at paddy field area is higher a bit. However, u can do up to 5 storeys provided the foundation is checked and verified by an qualified structural engineer.

6) On line 7.0 - There are so many Jabatan need to go through for licience apporaval. This will take year to approve with a lot of kopi money. Can we simplify the process?
We can apply thru "one-stop" approach which is practised for the normal house renovation.

7) On line 9.0 (i) - Bird sound is a MUST especially for new BH. Ultrasonic is proven not working.
So delete this clause please and change to "penggunaan speaker dan sistem audio dibenarkan, tertakluk kepada kekuatan bunyi tidak melebihi 40dB, diukur pada jarak 6 m dari tweeter."




This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Today, 06:31 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 8:56 pmOriginal Post 154 by Bobby C

Some comments on the Kedah Guideline


4.0.ii Aktiviti perladangan burung wallet hendaklah di luar kawasan petempatan dan perniagaan bagi mengelak daripada kacauganggu kepada penduduk

Comment:- This clause is too general and contradict the previous guidelines and Home Minister Ong KC press statement that swiftlet farming is allowed in commercial building/shoplots. Suggest change "petempatan dan perniagaan" to perumahan. In another words not allowed in residential development.


5.1 Aktiviti dan premis .. Beroperasi secara "haram"

Comment:- Suggest change the word "haram" to "tidak berlesen". Swiftlet farming is not illegal unlike "judi" or "arak". Word "haram" giving bad impression to a layman who reads it even before looking at the content.

5.1.iii Tingkat bawah bangunan tidak dibenarkan diguna untuk aktiviti ini melainkah bagi bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu sahaja.
Comment:- Too general, how to verify? Suggest "bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu atau diluar pusat perniagaan atau diluar kawasan bandar.

5.1.iv Jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan kemudahan awam (..) terhmpir adalah tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.

Comment: Suggest Jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam ....building wall to building wall not less than 50 meter. Not building wall to carpark or building wall to boundary fence less than 50 meter.

6.1.1 Lokasi Tapak / Zone Guna tanah yang dibenarkan

Comment: where is Zon commercial??? It is always in the guideline and Home Minister
Press statement that farming is allowed in commercial building. Kawasan perkampungan also considered residential area, this is contradictory to the guideline.

6.1.2.vi Zon perniagaan, this is contradictory.

6.1.4.i Jarak antara dinding premis ... dengan premis kediaman .... tidak kurang daripada 10 meter.
Suggest perlu mendapat surat bertulis dari pihak penternak ie need commitment from breeders that volume and hygiene shall not affect the neighbours in compliance with clause ... , failure which MBT got the right to dismantle after 3 warning letter etc.

6.1.4.ii Suggest " jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam " tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.

7.2 Penglibatan Jabatan / Agensi Berkaitan

As commented earlier, too many dept involved. Cant they simplified to "one stop centre" and the housing ministry have been trying to cut down red tapes.


9.0.i Pengunaan speaker ddan system audio tidak dibenarkan " cuma sonar (this is nonsense from H**** and should be deleted)


Just a suggestion for further debate not arguement purposes. Just my half cents. Thks.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 8:59 pmOriginal Post 156 by dunsuntutmybuntut

Dear Lucas 1, West Wing, ChanK, chioungguo, Ir Lee, Uncle Ben, coolandy and other esteemed forumers, hope i'm not barging in such heated arguments. I was caught offgurad when the old thread was closed... was away for a few weeks preparing my standalone BH. Supervised the jcb, built a 60X30 ft pond 800 ft away from the proposed site, took some measurements for agricultural activities, and met a few friends along the way, some with their own BH's.

It has caught my attention that some flaming occurred. Flame on all you want, as long as there are valid points & facts and for the interest of the industry. At times harsh words are needed and judgment necessary.

The issue in Kedah and Sarawak is alarming... and the news of this draft guideline... and possible directives to all PBT's... is a nightmare. I mentioned many times before the necessity of a National Level association (yes, whoever the head will be, will definately be prone to get MI or a TIA)... and its at times like this when the need becomes essential. One united voice representing most (not possible to represent all) BH owners both standalone and shoplots.

Someone mentioned about why there was a bumi association in Terengganu... again i mention that whatever it is, Malaysia has a rather biased political and racist nature (its a fact guys, no offense). Make use of this, utilize cooperating & proactive bumi BN associations for the benefit of the industry. Get their support rather than questioning why a bumi association should exist. Thats just my point of view. In other words.... manipulate whatever leverage these bumi associations have... for all of us.

I will continue my standalone unit. an 80x30x 3 story BH on agri land (3 acres). Already paid the deposit. this week construction will commence. The draft guideline is a DRAFT. Construction should be completed before any rubbish in that guideline will come to force, hopefully the pbt in the area will remain slow, inactive, dormant and stupid.

For the time being... addressing the issue in hand... don't you think a signed petition from all members of state level associations... including every BH owner in Malaysia... be a good idea? maybe during the handing of the petition at kementerian perumahan & kerajaan tempatan... we could call up the NGO's, International Conservation Bodies (WWF, Malaysian Nature Society), maybe consumer associations, maybe UNDP (since its Convention on Biological Diversity has published that PERHILITAN is developing the house nest as part of conservation efforts & income generating activity), the PRESS (both mainstream and not) and media. Just an idea. Play with issues revolving the industry to our advantage. Gather the momentum and support.

Since some legal proceedings have been filed against the pbt's in Sarawak, maybe open up a legal forum based on this. get opinions from other lawyers as well.

another issue i mentioned before is educating the officers and public. whoever has government officer friends... please enlighten them about the industry and the problems it faces. promote BN thru MOH. Promote it or even garner support from c/o's such as Brands and other commercially relevant producers of BN beverages/health food. my own experience with a gov official... to be exact a MARA official... presented my case (in hope of getting a loan) but was cut point blank that he was NOT INTERESTED. The last person who got a MARA loan for a BH mentioned that after 7 months... the officer only came once... and even that was because the MARA bigshots came to visit. In other words... most gov agencies do not have the technical expertise. maybe dialogues or forums or more two way discussions can help?

these are just a noobies oponion. please pray for my BH safe completion and success, then i can be more involved and as passionate as you guys.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:03 pmOriginal Post 157 by West Wing


QUOTE(ChanK @ Feb 24 2009, 11:02 AM)
The Selangor BN Association is issuing sticker to all members. Each member will obtained a sticker that they will stick to the front door. Details of Owner name, contact no. is included.

Owners need to apply the sticker with proven document that the farm belongs to him.

This is a good practice as many times neighbours complains but did not know who is the owner and ends up complain to govt dept and make it into a bigger issue.
*




This is a NO NO as it will surely lead to some other problems which shouldn't be mentioned here. Better stick a sticker with the Association name and telephone to contact. Just examine the following and see if it work.

What our Association has done is to have a sub committees dealing with complaints and that the public will phone this number and complaint. The Association will take appropriate action to correct any unhappiness and will phone up the complainant after correction. This way, only the Association is involved and the BH owner and the complainer need not see eye to eye unless necessary, then the Association will arrange a meeting for them to meet.

What we the BH owners are not afraid of the public's complaints but it is the devils that we are concerned and afraid of if you understand what I mean.

Give a number for each BH and The Association name the Telephone to call. That's what the Association is for...Harmony, Peace and Understanding.
We even have carry on education for our members to keep them informed and to educate them in all fields concerning this industry like how to export BN, how to process BN, how to tackle BH's problems and many others....for the benefit or the members. I believe all BODs of the Association should have this in mind on how to solve complaints , how to improve BH, how to increase Birds, how to get better deals, and many more how but the most importance of HOW is how to do PR with the public esp. neighbours.

We have approached our local authorities and inform them to forward all complaints to our Association and let the Association do their donkey's work and we will keep them inform of our work. Any letter to any member should be forwarded to us and we will deliver on their behalf. That's way, the authorities will be please as there will less work for them and they will be happy as we solve all their complaints for them and we are happy as all well and end well. I have even suggest to our local Association to do charity work and support other NGOs to give the public that Bird's Association is a Association that care about the welfare of the town we are in and we are their friends in need.

Any ideals???

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:04 pmOriginal Post 158 by dunsuntutmybuntut

i am not sure that will work. local authorities are endowed with power to enforce such bylaws or regulations... i dont think the idea of delegating or extending the enforcement would work well with them (even if it meant reducing their workload)... since as the name suggests... localauthority. come on, you know how most pbt's are and what attitudes they have when it comes to enforcement.

i do agree however with the PR aspects. maybe more can be done thru these associations.

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Today, 09:18 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:06 pmOriginal Post 159 by ChanK

WW, actually i too afraid to paste my name n phone no., and yes, it will have other complication where you will need to face Black and White !!!...


But this issue is small issue. move on to other major issue first.

Added on February 24, 2009, 9:25 pm6.1.4.ii Suggest " jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam " tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.


guys, we can take out the clause if it is not necessary. we don't have to follow all the clause.

what about those farms that renovated and convert to farm and after few years, the bangunan kemudahan awam is been move to the building besides this farm!!

In segamat, the most famous farm too next to govt office!!.. so is that mean that building too need to move!

what other clause should be taken away? We need to think liked all farmers condition, that is, even we don't have farm in agricultural land, we need to check if any clause is affecting them and whether it is necessary.

The only worry that a farm situated next to a public building is due to hygi. n smell. And this is been taken cares of with one clause where farmers need to clean all shits once a month.

We don't even have to monitor it as all farmers are cleaning up the shits twice a month as they are now more concern with nest quality as white nest command higher price.

BTW, now we are doing something......great job guys. thank you.

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 09:32 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:12 pmOriginal Post 161 by Aerohead

Uncle Ben,

you wrote "The highly esteemed Datuk Lord Canbrook a renowned scientists who worked in Sarawak for many years and together with Dr.Lim Chan Koon co- authored Swiftlets of Borneo was the speaker on Sarawak Swiftlets organized by Sarawak Nature Society in Bintulu last year. He stress that what he call "House Swiftlets " are either a sub species or an Hybrid species that he named " Fuciphagus Domesticus " and would categories as domestic animals like chicken and pigs....."

Is he classifying the swiftlets in our BH as "House Swiftlet" ie. Aerodramus Fuchipagus Domesticus or is it Aerodramus Domesticus ? As such are these House Swiftlets a protected species like AFs?

If they are not a protected species then does the law in Sarawak prohibits the keeping of non protected species of swiftlets.

This may be worth pursuing because If the law only prohibits the keeping of protected species of swiftlets and if House Swiftlets is not a protected species then it could be a way to stop perhilitan's current actions in Sarawak.

Just some foods for thought.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:14 pmOriginal Post 162 by dunsuntutmybuntut

about 6.1.4...

in modern countries... development is done around nature. for example in australia... the first people who survey the development site are the landscape architects & horticulturists... they will try to line out and preserve the natural landscape as much as possible... only then do the engineers, architects and stuff jump in with the design. this concept should be applied... if an operating and successful shoplot BH that has an adequate number of birds... such 'kemudahan awam' or any other development should be built away from the location in the spirit of conservation. then again, this is Malaysia, a country that rules based on an individuals whim.

i read both the Kedah and the draf GP022. roughly they still lack technical know how about the industry, besides giving lame excuses and blaming public ignorance about the nature of AF. secondly... too much authority is given. too much. 7.8 (draf gp022) clearly shows that once these bylaws are approved, they will go all out to destroy even the slightest violation of the rules. Each and every stage of the 'legalization' process of a BH unit is prone to abuse and corruption. who are we kidding? we all know pbt's not so famous dark side.

Bobby C, i agree with your view on 5.1.... how the hell can they assume it is haram in the draft stage? to me, it just shows malicious intent. branding unlicensed BH owners just like gambling dens, prostitution outlets or drug abuse related lots.

so far as i know, the issue of Sarawak is more of the owners rather than the birds. lets assume there is no difference between house (BH) and cave birds... disregard subspecies and what not. just assume all are just aerodramus fucipagus... the protected ones... dont you think it should MORE REASON FOR THE AUTHORITIES TO NOT GO AROUND DESTROYING BIRD HOUSES THAT PROVIDE GOOD SHELTER AND A HOME FOR THE BIRDS BESIDES INCREASING ITS POPULATION? sometimes i think the world is such a mess.

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Today, 10:18 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:18 pmOriginal Post 163 by Chiongguo

QUOTE(ChanK @ Feb 24 2009, 09:46 AM)
Anyone can upload it here by section for all members to study it.

Guys again don't waste your time with him.


You should actually follow your own advice but instead resorted to side-swipes and then rallying the gang to do your bidding. Since you open the door , I am merely walking through.


QUOTE
I thank all my friends who try to defend for me, it is ok. I am nobody so don't worry about me. As long as I have nests to harvest every week, i am very happy liao. Who said what i don't care as deep down i never done any harm to anyone in the swiftlet farming industry, that is more than enough to me. No problem been sabotage when you did no wrong to anyone.


Clap!clap!clap!clap .... great speech. Why do you want to make yourself out to be the victim ? You vented your spleen on others and the group applauded you. Look through all your posts where you literally drown harry with your puke and harry did nothing to respond. When I responded .... not in kind but with reason and careful consideration you felt victimised as if you had been wrongly maligned.

QUOTE

Liked D.L. said, ` We have done no harm or bad things to anyone, even we walked around a dark ally in the middle of the night, we have no fear.".


This quote is so laughable and I will just leave it as that .... a nice joke

QUOTE
So, i thank you again for all the support i got. But of course, i will expose any swiftlet predators that i came across with no remorse. And the other way round, if someone think that i am a predator to him, they can expose me too. No regret, i die as A Normal Human Being.


Spoken like a true hero that flew through the trees saving all the swiftlet in its path. The protector of 61000+ farmers who would be eternally grateful to all your sacrifices and daring do.

For a moment I thought you were a god....


QUOTE
It happened few years ago when perak farmers facing great danger of been instructed to close down all the farms in town. Then the association decides to arrange a meeting with the govt officer ( i forgot who liao, i think from MCA or gerakan). On that morning, over hundreds of farmers, including ah mah, waiting outside the street and waiting for one man to come, he is no other but Mr David Lim. Though he accompanied by the Perak BN Association President, the farmers instead of welcoming the president, they all rush to Mr David Lim and great him and thank him for taking the time to come to Perak to fight for them eventhough Mr David Lim do not own any farms in Perak. Even Ah mah's all hugs him.

In the meeting, He is the main negotiator to discuss the matter with the Govt officer questioning him what he is doing.
Any of us here been greeted by someone you have not even meet before but they treat you liked a Hero??

So, you can sabotage me but don't even f***ing dares to talk bad about D.L. !!!!!!!

Nice story.

Tell me fcukwitz where have I said bad about DL ????

Point the error of my ways oh high and mighty one who know what is good and bad, what is predatorial and what is not !!


You could push harry around when he doesn't reply but it is a lot more uncomfortable when you have to deal with the verbal diarrhoea you spewed out so often.


You are right, this should be the end of my engagement with you. Perhaps one day affinity may bring us together again.

-----
From your post I could guess that you are on the thin side. Your face is probably elongated. Your fingers are lanky. You probably have thin lips and thin eye-brow 8-))))........may even have short eye-brow.

It would be nice if you could confirm this 8-).....don't worry I am not violent and I am not trying to know what you look like. What I have done is based on ayurveda understanding of body types and behaviour.......oh I forgot....IRRELEVANT .......

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:21 pmOriginal Post 164 by ChanK



Short Short dei !!!.....

At least i still have my family members..my brothers and my mother supports and they will never disown me...else i will becomes ...



and also all the friends which i never met before or only exchange emails....guess you guys had sent some naughty emails to him..else, he will not becomes so `Siao"....see, you guys arr........

Please lah...ignored me lah....YES...ignored me...that will stop this nonsence...





hehe....Just chat with some forumers here about the latest post...haha....very funny ahh.....




This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 10:39 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 9:24 pmOriginal Post 165 by Chiongguo

QUOTE(vegachia @ Feb 24 2009, 03:13 PM)
since i already started build BH in agriculture land then that mean i no need apply the approval from council again??????
just continue my project building????


Not true.

If the agri land is within the jurisdiction of the town council you will still need to apply for building permit. If you are building a reban-like structure, which I had personally seen one, for swiftlet then you could probably get away with it. But the new guideline that is coming out will make your effort "illegal".

In the new guideline again if your agri land is on zoned "kampung" area you need to get permission from your neighbour. It is a silly requirement. No one need their neighbour's permission to build reban ayam but apparently for swiftlet farmers you need to do so.

Should you continue with your project ? No one can answer that for you.


QUOTE
actually which land is serious for the problem kacau from council???agriculture land or town shoplot land??????
i heard from my friend,he said that agriculture land is safety if compare to town shop land,coz there have no law against the agriculture building design, is it true?
*



Not true.

Town area is more problematic as the government had decided to ban such activities in town. Agriculture land is preferred. Small industrial building is allowed.

Building on farms depend on the structure you want to build. It range from permanent, semi-permanent and temporary. If it is permanent then you need all the necessary approval.

Hope this helps.....now I feel so much better that I could contribute POSITIVELY......(not so private joke)...



Not true.

This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Feb 25 2009, 09:27 PM

The operation will start tomorrow in Sarikei where it may last sometime as it want 2 inspect over 100 plus units including
shoplots, industrial lots or even standalone(those not under agriculture land). Very sad to note that there stil operators playing sound esp inside sound in the town knowing those forestry official already in the town.Can we not cool down til we find way to deal with them than to confront now. I was told these operators dont care as you know they are empty BH. Please advise bro esp from W.Msia what we need to do. Most of us remove everything inside for fear of summon. Believe thousands of baby birds & eggs r destroyed. help........
Sarikei BH Owners

Original Post 168 by Engineer Lee

Like to clarify some differences between CCC and OC.

FYI, CCC is replacing OC for a building’s fitness for occupation certification under the new system.

CCC
It is issued by the architect. It is much simpler, faster and makes everybody’s life easier. However, the architect also has to compile and gather 20 clearance forms by various departments & parties (TNB, Telekom, etc) prior to issuance of the final cert – CCC. The onus is on the architect to coordinate with all the relevant parties and ensure everything is in place and in good order. The PBT still reserve the right to audit and monitor on the consultants, but their involvement in certification process is getting minimal. The architect, engineers, main cons, subcons & the external departments in the end are liable for any non-compliance, substandard construction, faulty design, malpractice, etc. All drawings are submitted to OSC (One Stop Centre). The processing will be faster & the speed depends on how efficient is the architect. New development from now onwards will be going thru OSC.

OC
It is issued by the local council (Pihak Berkuasa Tempatan/PBT). It is implemented for the projects before OSC. If your BH’s planning approval or building approval previously not obtained thru OSC, you will still have to apply for OC. Under this old system, it takes very long time to get the approval, red tape. When the developer issues certificate of completion for VP (vacant possession), i.e, handing over the key, their responsibility for handing over a completed building is fulfilled and the defects & liability period started from this date. There is a lag time between VP and OC, sometimes it takes years before the owners can stay in the house!

This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Today, 11:22 PM

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Added on February 25, 2009, 11:14 pmOriginal Post 169 by West Wing






Sorry Bro if you think you are the one that I am referring to as I am not referring to anyone in particular as you all are my friends. I love you all too much to badmouth anyone of you. Maybe, I must have misquoted somehow but I am just hoping that we deal with the enemy at our gate instate of infighting . I believe that you must have some good points to contribute to those who are going to battle so pls. forward them to our warriors..... may it be guns, cannons or even bamboo stick; anything that can help. Fire your cannons at the enemy and not among friends. We are hoping that more warriors stand up but until now so few warriors I could see, where are all the young able men. TO BATTLE, ANYONE???????

So, great men of the forum, post or pm to DL and the warriors so that they can well prepared and armed or better still be a warrior yourself........I wish that I can contribute more. I am old and I am really very busy as I am posting, I am about to fly to Shanghai for a trade show. BH is my hobby and my love but most of the players are throwing in everything they have in BHs so never try to destroy their BHs, it's their dream, their hope, it's everything they have. Good Luck and may God be with you and guild you to victory.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 11:16 pmOriginal Post 170 by Engineer Lee

[QUOTE(chiongguo @ Feb 24 2009, 10:34 PM)
Not true.

Town area is more problematic as the government had decided to ban such activities in town. Agriculture land is preferred. Small industrial building is allowed.

Building on farms depend on the structure you want to build. It range from permanent, semi-permanent and temporary. If it is permanent then you need all the necessary approval.

Hope this helps.....now I feel so much better that I could contribute POSITIVELY......(not so private joke)... tongue.gif
Not true.
*/QUOTE]


Not true also.

If you really really read carefully the NGL by Jabatan Perancang Bandar & Desa Kedah, your balls will shrink. Lets get to the facts.

Refer to 4.0 iii, aktiviti perladangan burung walet sedia ada perlu menjalani program pemutihan. Meaning that all BHs no matter new or old, standalone or shoplot, all will be under program pemutihan, no escape.

Refer to 5.2 Kelulusan Terhadap Program Pemutihan
Clause 5.2.1 - menolak (total reject) jika permohonan tidak memenuhi syarat para 5.1
so if your standalone BH do not have OC/CF/CCC, under Clause 5.1. vii & viii, your BH will be closed down with immediate effect !!!

However, since shoplot BH have OC/CF/CCC, we are permitted to undergo program pemutihan whereby grace period given until 31 Disember 2012 and we will be given permit sementara.

Study carefully before jump to the conclusion my friend.

Also, for permanent license application for standalone BH even you have CCC/OC, you have to convert your land use for the land from agriculture to building (refer to Clause 6.1.5 syarat tanah perlu ditukar kepada syarat jenis bangunan dan...) . This land conversion matters will involve EXCO level, and will drag you minimum 2-3 years my friend, pls check with the land surveyor.

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Added on February 25, 2009, 11:28 pmAchtung! Achtung! Achtung!

My dear friends:

Please be prepared to standby another alternative forum, and also save every thread you had posted,

just in case we might need to make do the discussion in another place.

we don't know when the server will "kaput" again.

Just prepare for the rainy days.

This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Feb 25 2009, 11:35 PM

Our deepest sympathy to old friends in Sarikei. We remember the 1st BH of Sarikei was a former coffin shop. Many wild swiftlets built their nests beneath the small public pier at the water front. Sometimes the distance between the nests and the water surface was less than 2 feet during high tide. Have you all in Sarikei contacted your local YBs? Sarikei is the home base for former Minister of the Environment; Dato Seri Law Hien Ding who was the one supported and approved the official recognition of this industry in the 1st official meeting cum dialogue in 2002 with DL’s committee in Putrajaya. We understand that many BHs were encouraged by Dato Seri Law to be built in Sarikei by his party members since then. Have you contacted Dato Seri or his party members? People of Sarikei are known to be tough and united. They are men with courage and honour. We believe Dato Seri and his party members should be able to do something.

Another alternative is to get a lawyer to start to apply for court injunction proceeding. This is the best and the last resort. Yes, may be the rangers only want to go in and take some nests this time. But they are going to do that every 1 to 2 months. That is enough to give constant nightmares.

I wish the Govt. consider the after effect of their action to prevent BHs @ town because what will happen will be unforgivable. Shamefully, that's may be what I am hopping for as I maybe able to buy back at 30% of the price that I sold.

What will happen to the whole of Malaysia where most of the unsold or empty shoplots that being converted to BHs and now all will be for sale and there will be a glut and all will suffer...first the BH owners, then the developers, then the market and last the Govt. It will be worst now with our economy. The government should support the town BHs as the main source of Birdnests are from Town swiftlets BHs. Can someone give some statistic of how much contribution from the BHs out of town????

It will be putting our economy back and how are the Govt objective to put Malaysia the top producer of Birdnests. When the main source has been cut and most of the destroyed BHs birds will most probably fly to neighbouring countries. Please check it out with Haiwan experts and you will know that Swiftlets can fly over thousand of miles without stopping and what to stop them from flying to Indonesia....crazy if you think that the birds will just migrate to the Eco Parks? By offering the birds incentives like we do with human being or by giving the birds free lunch or dinner?? The birds stay at that particulaar location because they like the location and moving them to another specific location is easily said than done cos' doing it is impossible.

I have a joke to share. long time ago, my neighbour asked me a question" Why your BH has so little shits but plenty of nests and mine, all shits and very little nests" I answer" because I told my birds to clean up in your BH before return to sleep in my BH, you (birds) shouldn't dirty the bed, do you???? How's the joke?

..........it all mean that by playing sound @ Eco park may draw alot of birds to play but none will stay and it is the staying birds that we are interested and not the visitors. If the birds like the town and the town they will stay and no way can you invite them to stay at your place if they don't want to. Is that the birds choose and not we choose for where they will stay. Let the BHs @ town contribute to the country's economy and also with the town birds, only those @ Eco Parks or out of town BH can florish...without the core and the main source of birds to support, all other areas of BHs will fail badly. Don't kill the source of the swifltets as the Govt did with the Sarawak caves due to bad management and greed. Else, all swiftlets in Malaysia will perish.

Taking about bringing up the case and let the court decide, that I have mentioned but no one whose BH have been broken into seem to have taken the initiative, otherwise their birds still there.....this way, we buy time, we let the world know, and we still have a change that the court will decide in our favour. I am willing to contribute even the trouble is in Sarawak cos' like virus, they spread fast and need to stop them at the bud.

the F***hairy stil not learn a lession. stil said ppl against him.
use our belove DL photo be his advertising tool
F***

[COLOR=blue]"By Enginnering Lee
2) On line 5.1 (iV) - Instead of specify the distance with respect to "dinding premis", can we use the distance with respect to the source of sound (Ext Tweeters)?
Q: Can u expect our enforcer climb up the BH and measure the distance between the tweeters and the neigbor's house by deploying total station (surveying equipment)?"


Hi Enginnering Lee,
I agreed that it is not so straight forward to measure the Ext Tweeter distance from nearest housing as compare to measure from the "dinding premis". But I guess it is not difficult also if you go into the BH to check where is the Ext Tweeter location and measure the distance with respect to the nearest housing. By doing this extra job, we can save more BH including mine.

All,
To me, the most important thing is to make sure the bird sound level within acceptable range and the BH is cleaned at least once a month to minimize the public complain. Everytime when I visit my BH, I always spend some times to chat with my neighbour whether they have any complaints.

Btw, taking about the acceptable sound level, I remember some of the guideline from GAPH seminar did state 40dB measure 6 meters from the tweeter. Did anybody know why 40dB? I have a decibel meter. When I ON the meter without any sound, it is already around 40dB. Anybody use decibel meter to measure the sound before?

Correct me if I am wrong.

I heard from some sources that H failed farm was built by DL.

Any clarification?

Hope someone could clear the air.

I would still prefer LYN because LYN rank 5 in terms of traffic ranking in Malaysia and the speed of hosting server is very fast. Other forum may have hiccups too and worst still simply disappear due to lack of fund.