The complain from neighbour can affect other swiftlet farming in that area too who follow the proper guideline. NO....

At northern there is few Flat top lever converted to BH,you can see it at nibong tebal and bukit mertajam.
between that,the water we use for humufier if the clorine content high,it will affected the bird or not?
the clorine smell can affested the bird to run away from your BH?

think that sums it up don't you think kotmj? people involved in the industry aren't so keen of the idea... what more authorities, residents & PERHILITAN. The GAHP is still being revised, but i'm sure more or less it'll be the same. Then again it's a free country, we do things at our own risk. No ones gonna hold you back, but the risks kena tanggung sendiri, and possibly giving further negative images of the industry.

Dear forumers, i would like to get some input regarding an idea i want to materialize; doing a survey regarding the swiftlet industry. A personal effort hopefully with the help of forumers, maybe one association and friends. Since theres nothing to it yet, please feel free to give input openly in this thread or just email me at dunsuntutmybuntut@gmail.com;

1. The Objective

2. Indicators

3. Questionnaires

The questions asked to respondents (of course everything is anonymous, no names no nothing... studies are like that, and if requested a non-disclosure can be signed). We can list down and sort/categorize them later.

Don't worry about the methodology & lit review (even the statistical analysis & interpretation), i got that covered. The target group... depends... separate issues can be split in different surveys (but can be given out simultaneously). Lets say if we want to ask owners about an estimate of their bird population, breeding rate etc... it would help refute the Akta Hidupan Liar about population/epidemiology of 'protected species'. If we want to refute association with zoonotic diseases, we can target BH owners as well as the surrounding population and interview local ornithologists/parasitologists/microbiologists, but not to the extent of sampling guano since lab tests will cost a bunch... unless VSD lends a hand (FOC). If forumers with technical expertise regarding structure, maybe questions/specifications of BH's as well? Minimum requirements for structural safety.

This more of a quantitative analysis then a qualitative one, hopefully there wont be a shortage of respondents (which in that case kena tuka jadi case study je la). Was thinking of asking the respondents to sign a petition as well, why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Sorry... not birds, cockroaches, marah AF nanti! >.<

Since most of the forumers here are involved in the industry, i'd like to get input first hand. It doesn't matter if some think this idea is crazy or a fruitless one, at least we can try do something within our capability.

Just came by this site;

http://www.cepp.utm.my/rnd_sbu_ebn.php

Also this one (the reason why i previously suggested strategically positioned BH's within a certain radius, basically it correlates contents/quality of EBN with food source and region);

http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/jft/2008/39-44.pdf

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 27 2009, 03:34 PM

Thanks DSMB,

Good links.

dunsun,

we are most please u make the first move. supporting all the way.

Thanks, and np... anyways, until my BH gets nests... would be a pleasure to do surveys. Will update once in a while.

Owner giving up bird house - no longer available.

TQ

This post has been edited by PangAH: Dec 19 2009, 12:00 PM

Sorry for asking eh Mr. Pang... i used to live in IM6, got lots of nice places to eat. Was one time when i had breakfast every morning at that kedai makan up there at Bay Route, the nasi minyak & nasi dagang is yummy!

(obviously i edited this) >.<

This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Sep 30 2009, 10:49 AM

If your coming from KL, left exit at the bulantan bunga cenkih, entrance of IM14 is in front of Astana Golf and Country Club (near JPJ Kuantan).
I think IM14/15 is a single storey "benkel" area if i'm not mistaken.

Yes, i believe so too aeiou228, i passed by the area yesterday evening on the way back to KL from KT. Kuantan is a haven just like KT. The BH's in town are to be envied... geram tengok the birds flying home.

There are also a few BH's within IM... not a good idea to mention where i guess since the authorities might pick it up. Mr. pang, i suggest you remove the location, and just give a general description, same to aeiou228 and myself (i'll edit mine after posting this). We don't want to cause trouble do we?

To all Sifus, please help.

I am going to change my window entry entrance to open roof entrance at the other corner of the farm. In order to train the bird to use the new entrance, I am facing some problem as below.

1. Can I straight away close the present entrance and force the bird to use the new entrance?

2. Better for me to use back the present calling sound at the new entrance or change to new one?

3. Or I need to reduce the old entrance hole bit by bit? How about the calling sound, still need to play?

4. If I use method No.3, at the same time, do I need to play calling sound at the new entrance? New song or present song?

5. When my farm having two entrances, it brighten my nesting area. So if I put on the calling sound at new entrance, the new visitor may have bad impression of my farm, what should I do?

6. I believe no matter how small the present entrance hole I reduce, sure got some old bird will still use the small entrance. So what you think when is the right time to totally shutdown the old entrance, normally it will take how long? (This farm is having about 100 birds)

All suggestions and opinions are welcome.
Thank in advance.

arong

Quite disappointed after reading a blog about how to increase the number of baby birds during 2nd phase.

The idea is really crazy and not ethic. Add 3 eggs in a nest? Did he ever think that can birds feed 3 baby birds at the same times? Or is the nest big enough for 3 birds? Most of the birds will eventually get kill either by starving to dead or accidentally fall down. Even they can survive, I think due to not enough food, their size and health also not as good as normal growing birds. Can they survive in wild environment?

How about the idea to choose only female egg only? What about the male egg? throw or sell away? Again you are teaching how to kill young birds.

Btw I thought the swiftlet once choose its partner, they will forever together until either one of them die before they look for new one?

I hope those who practice the method of increasing young birds can sleep well at night....

Another crazy idea after "shift birds" episode.

why need to take out the address??

are we doing any illegal things here??

are we a crime??

are we so ashamed of what we do??

thats exactly what the govt officers are trying to brain wash us to think liked that so that they can milk us !!!!.

not tht i pick on dunsun or anyone here.

Stop been brain wash by these little napoleons!!!..

ALL OF US HERE ARE ONLY TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING FOR OUR OWN FAMILY.

WE ARE NOT TRYING TO STEAL FROM SOMEONE.

WE ARE NOT TRYING TO KILLS ANYONE.

WE ARE NOT OPERATING AN UNDERGROUND CASINO.

WE ARE ONLY letting birds stay in the shop.

We ARE NOT ILLEGAL!!!!..


apologize if i offended anyone here.

As they say, Ideas are a dime a dozen.

A lot of ppl don't understand why swiftlet lay at most 2 eggs. This is a survival strategy developed by the swiftlets species over million years of evolution like any other surviving living things on earth. Disrupting this strategy means disturbing their plans for propagating the species. The swiftlets know their odds against nature therefore they know that their best bet is at most 2 eggs. Those swiftlets that lay more than 2 eggs did not manage to pass on their genes. Removing the male eggs and putting 3 female eggs is a recipe for disaster.

Is there a guarantee that each female swiftlet will bring back a male.? Whoever who wants to try 3 eggs producing female swiftlets better be sure that it is the female swiftlet that attracts the male swiftlet else he would be producing lots of female birds that will fly to stay with the male birds in other people's bh. Not to mention the additional strain put on the parent swiftlets.

Maybe the additional strains on the parents is a good way to produce blood nests.

The forces of nature is immense. GOD created Nature. Be very very careful when you try to manipulate them.

Scientists have a problem identifying male and female swiftlets. Eggs? Aristotle said that the pointed eggs are male and the rounder ones are females. Some Indonesia authors mentioned the same.

How do we separate fact from fiction. I am really keen to know more about this issue.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Sep 30 2009, 09:24 PM

Sorry ChanK, and no offense taken since i understand what you mean and i believe all of us are exasperated by the never ending red tape and abuse. The reason i said so was for security reasons besides (exactly the scenario you mentioned, milking), i know that MPKT does monitor BH premises within their jurisdiction, just in case the premise was considered 'illegal' by the PBT. Mentioning the exact location of a BH is slightly risky, unless among trusted friends and acquaintances or within this community. We never know whose reading this forum.

CWG, can you direct me to which blog your talking about? I wanna read it as well. Thanks.

My dearest coolandy, thats why we need proper research in this field. Fact or fiction can easily be proven. We are in dire need of studies like this;

http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/jft/2008/39-44.pdf

that study easily answers the questions posed by critics... is birds nest soup really that nutritional and benefits health??? Does the contents and chemical make up differ based on region (in other words feeding territory, cave or house nest)?

What i'd like to know is the population issue... if the population is in the millions, then why is it still in the protected species list? Why can't the 1972 Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar be based on population & epidemiology? We are contributing to conservation... but then again... what would happen if theres an issue of over population like what some people are facing in Indonesia? Will it effect quantity and quality of the nests, will it effect the population growth curve? Will it also effect the population of AF's prey? ***** betul... so many questions... no factual scientifically proven answer. Arrgggghh!!!!! I really do wish the associations will do some collaborative survey and compile the findings, present it to kementerian with recommendations + a memorandum. to me this is the fundamental issue or milestone we have to overcome... liberating the industry from Perhilitans clutches.

arong, i do know that gradual closure is the accepted way to close up an entry hole, but at what interval and how many bricks per interval... you must ask people who have done so. A friend did close an entry hole, he closed up half the entry in one day... but almost had a heart attack when only a few hundred birds entered in the evening... out of thousands (the reason he did so was to make the entry smaller, security reasons). In the end he bukak balik, and gradually did it week by week, one layer of bricks per interval (and of course the issue of scent). It worked for him but it might not be the same case for you. He played the same sound by the way. Another friend closed up one entry and opened another (to avoid detection)... but after more than 6 weeks, many birds still flew towards the sealed up hole despite entering from the new hole before dark.

please note that most of my views are from other peoples experience... i learned the hard way that we have to find knowledge ourselves and learn from sifu's as much as we can (not blindly bantai buat). people's experience is a valuable source of information, especially those who learned from trial and error.

Thank ……buntut. Your info helps a lot.

“after more than 6 weeks, many birds still flew towards the sealed up hole despite entering from the new hole before dark.”

It look like swiftlets will remember their flying path for a very long time. Changing entrance really is not a simple job. Better make a right design on the beginning, but what to do due to people complain.

no prob, but better get a second third maybe fourth opinion.

todays paper... still more mention about the MPSp's intention of moving swiftlet farmers out of the 40km radius guideline by PERHILITAN;

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...391&sec=central


Some things i do want to know;

1. Is there any cases of swiftlets caught in the turbines/propellers/whatever that propels the plane?
2. Is it common for aircrafts in Malaysia to fly at speeds faster than the speed of sound... swiftlets have extraordinary hearing... and should be able to detect incoming objects from far away, what more if the objects a bloody noisy plane.... and of course get out of the way.
3. WTF does Perhilitan know about airline regulations? Heck... WTF does Perhilitan know about swiftlets??????????
4. I'm wondering what guideline that Azizan Sidin is talking about.

The blogger has removed the article.

I think it is good. A lot of people are reading his blog. Hope he is not misled people especially newbie.

Aiyo, didn't get a chance to read. swt. must be a forum reader? >.<