Here is a list of private medical universities/ colleges/ schools available in Malaysia as of NOVEMBER - 2014, choose and compare wisely:




*Last Updated - NOVEMBER, 17tt 2014

LINK TO THE LIST OF ALREADY RECOGNIZED MEDICAL PROGRAMS BY MMC
http://mmc.gov.my/v1/index.php?option=com_...d=70&Itemid=109





1. INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL UNIVERSITY (IMU)


Website: http://www.imu.edu.my/


2. MONASH UNIVERSITY MALAYSIA CAMPUS

Website: http://www.med.monash.edu.my/


3. PENANG MEDICAL COLLEGE (PMC)

Website: http://www.pmc.edu.my/index.php


4. MELAKA MANIPAL MEDICAL COLLEGE (MMMC)

Website: http://www.manipal.edu/INSTITUTIONS/MEDICI...es/Welcome.aspx

Additional Info: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry32124124



5. ASIAN INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (AIMST)

Website: http://www.aimst.edu.my/



6. ROYAL COLLEGE OF MEDICINE PERAK (RCMP-UNIKL)

Website: http://www.perakmed.edu.my/index.php



7. UNIVERSITY COLLEGE SEDAYA INTERNATIONAL (UCSI)

Website: http://lms.ucsi.edu.my/doctor-of-medicine



8. ALLIANZE COLLEGE OF MEDICAL SCIENCES (ACMS)

NOW CLOSED
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysi...-medical-colleg



9. CYBERJAYA UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF MEDICAL SCIENCES (CUCMS)

Website: http://www.cybermed.edu.my/
Course Details: http://www.cybermed.edu.my/cucms-web/new_w...c_medicine.html



10. MANAGEMENT AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY - INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL SCHOOL (MSU-IMS)

Website: http://ims.msu.edu.my/



11. MAHSA UNIVERSITY COLLEGE

Website: http://www.mahsa.edu.my/



12. TAYLOR'S UNIVERSITY COLLEGE

Website: http://www.taylors.edu.my/en/university/schools/medicine



13. NEWCASTLE UNIVERSITY - MEDICINE MALAYSIA

Website: http://numed.ncl.ac.uk



14. Universiti Tunku Abdul Rahman (UTAR)

Website: http://www.utar.edu.my/main.jsp

News Article: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...4915&sec=nation



15. Asia Metropolitan University (formerly known as Masterskill)

Website: http://www.amu.edu.my/new/medical-2/bachel...f-surgery-mbbs/



16. SEGI University College

Website: http://www.segi.edu.my/area/medicine



17. Insaniah University College

Website: http://www.insaniah.edu.my/portal/index.ph...sains-kesihatan



18. Perdana University

Website: http://perdanauniversity.edu.my/pugsom/



19. Lincoln University College

Website: http://www.lincoln.edu.my/programmetemplat...70-EB4301BF60DB



20. Quest International University Perak

Website: http://www.qiup.edu.my/index.php/faculties...of-surgery-mbbs



21. University College Shah Putra

Website: http://www.universitycollegeshahputra.edu....ourses/fom/mbbs

Now~ there are 20 IPTS offering medical courses in Malaysia~ to be updated if needed...

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Nov 17 2014, 11:56 AM

ermm.. it is better to seperate those that can be done all locally and those twinning programs.. and where's the public unis?

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Added on December 29, 2008, 11:47 amsorry.. didnt see private

This post has been edited by SeLrAhC: Dec 29 2008, 11:47 AM

i am trying hard to understand how a 0+5 'twinning' programme done wholly outside the country can be considered a 'local' med school.........

Right, I have to edit that. I consider it a local med school since the campus in Bangalore is an Off-shore campus of MSU (MSU is a local Uni).

if i am not mistaken, the 'offshore' campus is an existing medical school affiliated to the uni of bangalore.....they just make an arrangement to 'buy' the med student places to sell to unsuspecting msian parents hell bent on making their children into doctors, the dream they could not realise in their time......

is that MSU a branch of MSU in singapore?

that is smu.......different lah.......

this is a relatively unknown upstart uni.....with obvious strong political connections

if i am not mistaken, they attempted a tie up with harvard earlier for postgraduate studies, but of course once harvard gets wind of the reality on the ground, they lost no time in getting out........

it's amazing how the most difficult course to run for any university, medicine/dentistry, sprouts out from very unknown, new, and unbenchmarked universities........can only happen in msia......

Correction, MSU actually built an offshore campus in Bangalore and has started the program since 2006.
Collaboration was made not with the Uni. of Bangalore (they dont have MBBS, only Bangalore medical college conducts MBBS) but with MS Ramaiah Medical College and MS Ramaiah Memorial Hospital.

MSU did not buy any "medical seats" from MS Ramaiah Medical College, but instead offered their own medical seats to Malaysians independent of that college since the facilities, lab and buildings are separate. Both MSU-IMS and MS Ramaiah medical college are separate entities, collaboration exists between the two in terms of medical expertises (professors and lecturers), training hospital and other related matters.

How did I know this? I am studying there right now.

Read the articles below:


http://www.tutor.com.my/tutor/dunia.asp?y=...if&pg=ps_01.htm

http://www.tutor.com.my/tutor/dunia.asp?y=...if&pg=ps_02.htm

http://www.tutor.com.my/tutor/dunia.asp?y=...if&pg=ps_03.htm


Relatively unknown?... I guess MSU don't get much publicity being an IPTS and Bumiputra-owned at that. It was previously known as KUTPM. Regarding strong political connections, that is a good thing is it not?

You do realize that India is a good destination for MBBS dont you? Ask those in MMMC as well if you dont believe me.

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Dec 29 2008, 10:37 PM

i stand corrected on the actual arrangements between msu and the obvious technical partner MS Ramaiah Medical College.......

india like most 3rd world countries (msian included) have a problem with keeping consistent standards for everything, including the training, and selection of future doctors......hence there is wide spread of standards of medical education in india, from the very excellent to the appalling......

questions remains why msu needs to resort to, and the india partner wants to allow, the use of indian expertise and hospitals and patients in the training of msians.....

also, if both facility shares the same teachers and clinical material, questions arise on how that impacts on the teacher:student and patient:student ratios.......

the indian gov has also set restrictions on the number/percentages of foreigners in their medical programmes, so how is this programme affected?.......i suspected the qualification is/will not be recognised by the imc and india moh.........

bottom line is, isn't there a better way of managing the selection and training of future doctors for msia........??

I wonder if there would be a surplus of doctors in Malaysia in future.

politics should stay firmly out of education......but that is of course wishful thinking in the msian context........every political party wants to control/set up a university........

which also explains the dismal state of education in msian, particularly medical education........

---

Added on December 29, 2008, 10:57 pmi see variable reports of msia reaching the un target of 1:600 ratio by 2013 or 2015......

there will of course be considerable maldistribution.......but even as we type now, it is reaching saturation point in the klang valley, especially for gp clinics.....

you can't turn off the production of doctors like a tap, thus yes there is likely to be a surplus of doctors in parts of msia by 2015, and a likelyhood of absolute surplus by 2020, at current production levels......

the other problem msia will face, is the broad spectrum of quality of these new doctors from such disparate sources.......

there is just NO centralised, coordinated, standardised, and future-need-based planning in the production of our future doctors.......disparate political vested interests decides the day......

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Added on December 29, 2008, 11:04 pmthe reputation of an academic institution comes not from whether it is ipts, the advertisements and publicity, or worse, being bumiputra owned (as if that should have any bearing at all), but from the strength of the programmes, the breath of the academic staffs, and the quality of the products, ie the graduates........so yes it is relatively unknown.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Dec 29 2008, 11:07 PM

The problem that currently hinders MSU from starting a medical school in Malaysia is the absence of a training hospital (particularly in Shah Alam and its surrounding area) and the difficulty in obtaining medical experts. In order to overcome these problems, MSU has instead set up its medical school in India itself. Thus, the problem of medical experts unwilling to relocate to Malaysia to teach has been solved.

The medical college and hospital in which MSU is currently collaborating with agrees to supply the training hospital and medical experts simply because it benefits them (monetarily). By doing so, MSU gains the benefit of having the place, resources and man power to start a medical school even though its 100% abroad.



Ah. Here is the thing. Teacher: student ratio as well as student: patient ratio is good. There are just too many people in Bangalore and thus too many people getting sick with various kinds of ailments.

MS Ramaiah medical college and hospital (or rather, India as whole) has abundant medical experts. The lecturers for the medical subjects only teaches permanently in either one of the medical colleges and not both at the same time. Lecturers from Manipal and other medical colleges in India have also been "recruited" to teach in MSU-IMS.

As for the training hospitals, there are another two major hospitals currently used for the purpose of teaching MSU-IMS students namely Baptist Hospital and Saint Theressa Hospital.


Indeed this MBBS program will not be recognized by Indian Medical Council (IMC).

This program is not meant for practice in India. Its a Malaysian program done in India with the aid of Indian resources and experties. MMC, MARA and MOH representatives had visited MSU-IMS several times in the past to assess the quality and progress of the program. So far, things are looking good.

what has mara to do with the accreditation process? it should not.......

They came along to see how their sponsored students are doing there.

erm.. i would say that this is a informative thread..

but if i know relatively nothing about medicine course such as "how to choose a better IPTS that offer a better quality education" , mb you should point out some of the IPTS to be considered first before moving to other IPTS for various factors such as distance or the total cost or cost : quality ratio.

that would help even more students..

hey guy...is the cyberjaya university college recognised by mmc?

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Jan 4 2009, 12:03 AM

Some have been recognized and listed in MMC website.
Unfortunately a majority of the listed med skools are not yet recognized by MMC at least not until their pioneer batch have graduated and assessed by MMC.

Could have built the campus elsewhere right? Somewhere with a teaching hospital...

"difficulty in obtaining medical experts" rises because of unwillingness of paying a higher salary to attract them...that's the only reason i can think of right now...

despite your explanation, i still find it strange...a LOCAL university to send malaysians to india, and let indian nationals teach them medicine, for the purpose of treating malaysian patients....i'm sure local doctors are more well versed with our local diseases and demographics....but then, you may argue with the fact that we do send students to UK and Australia....hmmmm =/

this exemplify the messed up way medical education is 'planned' and implemented in msia......

the 'planning' is not based on the needs of the citizens, and the needs of the nation.........it is done with vested interests overriding the principles of standards, quality, equity, accessibility, and safety.........

every political party wants one.........

every ethnic community wants one........

every state wants one.........

every connected businessman wants one........

and this resulted in the very strange phenomena of med schools in search of a teaching hospital!!!!

normally, in the natural scheme of things, as a community grows, the health services and hospitals also grow with it.......on reaching a critical point, the local university, usually the most established one, will be asked to set up a medical school......a well established system of healthcare is already in place, with all the local expertises already available in the local hospitals......and the university easily taps into this existing medical expertise, to set up the local med school.......

it is the opposite in msia.........novice universities with no track record are on political/racial/monetary grounds given the right to set a medical school........and they go about looking for somewhere where medical expertise is available to do that........and in extreme cases, end up in other countries' hospitals!!!!

malaysia boleh.........sigh......

is UCSI and CUCMS program recognised by MMC?

there has NEVER been a situation where any msian med school, public or private, no matter how teruk the conditions are, is refused full recognition of the degree.......they have actually changed their own criteria, so one particular med school can be accredited........

ie, like many things msian, it is a political decision rather than a professional decision........

however the process takes place towards the end of the 1st cohort, ie around the time the 1st batch is graduating.....

ah ic, thanks limeuu. May I ask whether it matters where you finished the mbbs program if your working in malaysia? As in, in the end your still a doctor right? or qualifications make differences, eg cert from a more reputable school compared to cert from a new med school.

if you intend to work only in msia, and have no intention of going overseas to work or train, then it matters not where you graduate from........

any of the upstart med schools locally will do, even though most of them will not be recognised anywhere else other than msia.......even unrecognised russian, indonesian, samoan (i kid you not, see today's the star ad) degrees will do, whatever.....just pass the qualifying exam.....that is how lax we are on recognition and standards.....

once you are fully registered by mmc, you are on par with any other graduates from oxbridge, melbourne etc........

except for bragging rights.......

if you however do intend to consider work/train in other countries, particularly 1st world countries, then your primary qualification is very important........

so what's your ter?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 4 2009, 08:53 PM

thanks limeuu for the info =) um, if converted it should be bout 99. something. *Cos i'm not doing year 12 itself.* =)

so any offers for direct entry in oz?

hmm. just asking i tot manipal is already not recognised in msia? may i noe wht is mmc?

This post has been edited by miaofen: Jan 6 2009, 03:01 PM

Previously, MMMC (Melaka Manipal Medical College) had some issues with the Indian Medical Council.
However, Its still listed and recognized by Malaysian Medical Council. You can check their list below (click it):

MALAYSIAN MEDICAL COUNCIL LIST

I do guess that recognition of the university medical (or any program) recognition depends entirely on their own students. Instead of relying on the university to get the recognition, the students themselves need to prove that they are worthy of that degree. If that can be achieve i don't think that there is an issue with recognition. No matter how recognized the institution is if the student is lousy so is the degree.

I see. No not bcos of tht.. My aunt whu is a teacher told me tht the medic uni tht is not recognised, they will have to take another test.. and they tends to make the students fail in tht test. it's better better to play safe i think.

btw thx alot for the info

while in the principle of individual endeavour, that would sound like the correct thing to say, in real life, the degree you hold determines recognition and license to work........whether you like it or not.....

there are of course back doors, where one can sit for qualifying exams set by regulatory authorities of various countries, but that is inviting unnecessary trouble and hardship......

let's face it, those msians who have unrecognised degrees have them purely because they had been unable (did not qualify) to get into recognisable medical programmes......i don't know of anyone who will choose to go to an unrecognised med school over a recognised one........and they face a big hurdle, many cannot pass the qualifying exams in spite of repeated attempts.....

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Added on January 7, 2009, 5:24 pmmany fail because they are poorly trained in the first place........and because they were weak students (go look at some of the spm/stpm/pre-u results), who would not have been able to get into a reputable med school........and probably should not have gone to med school in the first place.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 7 2009, 05:25 PM

There is no doubt in that. However being said that perhaps the MMC would not use the term "recognized university" anymore. They may just put the order that any student studying in overseas institution need to take the exam before practicing in MY. This may sound discriminating for students who went to study overseas but it does help eliminate the uncertainty of whether the institution being recognized by MMC or not. But students in so called "unrecognized" local or overseas institution should not be discriminated because some of this institution may just started their medical program.

This post has been edited by nickyf1ferrari: Jan 7 2009, 11:39 PM

there is NO uncertainty.........the list is there for all to see.........those going overseas to unrecognised med schools know exactly what they are getting into.......or should......there is no excuse for pleading ignorance.......

like i said elsewhere, ALL local med schools, ipta or ipts, will be recognised.......that is a political decision...........

I hope there are parents here reading this thread.

ya thanks for the list =).

you are welcomed~
are you planning to join any one of the med colleges listed?

Political Decision.. I agree on that.Period.

you are welcomed~
are you planning to join any one of the med colleges listed?

hmm.. bt im planning to take stpm.. must see how it goes actually. any medical uni to be recommended cos gt so many bt im not sure which one to enrol in? aiks.. still a long way to go btw..

This post has been edited by miaofen: Jan 12 2009, 03:45 PM

Alright, allow me to clarify the situation.
If a local private U grad intends to work in Singapore, he has to obtain a recognized post-grad qualification (eg, MRCP (UK), FRCAP and etc). Click here for more detail.
For US, UK, and AUS, one has to pass the licensing exam for the respective country.
However, to appear for the the above mentioned licensing exams, one's degree has to be listed in IMED.

Some may say that licensing exams are difficult, but according to many of my seniors, if you can't pass, you are not qualified to be a doctor.
MRCP(UK) on the other hand, is difficult and expensive.

Currently, the recognized private medical colleges in Msia are:
1. IMU
2. PMC
3. MMMC
4. Perak Medical
5. AIMST

Therefore for those wishing to pursue a career in medicine, it's better to opt for the above mentioned college to avoid the unnecessary hassles. However, i strongly suggest to pursue a medical degree in the 1st world countries, if money is not a concern for you.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 14 2009, 02:11 AM

the thing is, from what I've observed these last few years with LYN. Med students, Med students-wannabe and even med grads have these eagerness to want to practice outside of Malaysia.

They are concerned with SMC recognition, USMLE, PLAB etc. I assume money is the driving force? why do you think MMC and Gov keeps allowing new IPTS med schools from blooming all over the country?

Well, in my point of view, one of the reason for this is to avoid/reduce their past mistakes. The government sent JPA/MARA students abroad to study medicine so that they will return, serve the Malaysian community and become a valuable asset to the country. But then.... some of these students refused to return after graduating... therefore, the gov's investment went down the drain.

You guys see the problem here?



Now, in order to make sure that the future JPA/MARA sponsored students comes back to serve the government, the government has instead sent them to these new IPTS to study medicine.

Why? just think of this, malaysian IPTS are recognized only in Malaysia and therefore they will only be able to serve in Gov service after graduating. No more running away. The government is smart isn't it?

everybody loves a conspiracy story, and this would make interesting reading, and certainly sounds logical......

but the issue of jpa/mara scholars not wanting to return to serve their bond is NOT because they have recognised qualifications.......but because the govenrment ALLOWS them to do so with impunity......

just sue the guarantors/parents for the full amount of money spent on these scholars, plus interests, plus penalty, make it public, widely covered in the media.........and see if these scholars don't come scrambling back.......otherwise, recover the money, and there is no loss to the gov/country........

it would also make those who intend to break their bonds from the word go think twice about accepting the scholarships......

so why is that NOT happening??............

I think that's not the main issue responsible for the blooming of IPTS. I was told that medical education is the new gold mine, thus many successful businessmen and political parties want one for themselves. Therefore, when big money is involved, gov wouldn't want to stop it. You get what i mean

WHere can i get info on the jpa-sponsored graduate entry for medicine?
What about the requirements and procedure for graduates to apply for medicine in local universities?

Regarding JPA sponsorship for graduate entry medicine abroad, you have to inquire directly to their HQ.

If you were referring to local private medical universities, the minimum requirement for for a BSc. holder can either be CGPA of 3.0 (Second class upper degree) or CGPA 3.5 (first class degree), that however may differ between universities. But be reminded that you will join the normal 5-years program along with STPM/A-Levels/Foundation holders.

Diploma holders are required to have a minimum CGPA of 3.5 in order to be considered.

Gov.universities don't have graduate entry medical program. They are already swamped with STPM/matriculation students.

For the 4-years fast track medical program you will have to look abroad for it. Australia, UK, US and some European countries such as Poland offers such program.



By the way, have you graduated? what is your BSc. ?



This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Nov 26 2009, 11:22 PM

how much do we have to pay, if we want to pursue mbbs in UNIKL???
if u dont know the exact amount, what is the approximation?

For graduate entry medical course the best choice would be Aust medskols,eg Melbourne, Sydney..., Duke-NUS in spore, and Cornell in Qatar.

I dun think jpa will sponsor ur graduate medical course. if u r having financial constraints, do consider Duke-NUS, cos they r providing lots of financial aids, but competition to get admitted is quite fierce I heard.

A friend of mine studying there told me, it was around RM300K.

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Feb 22 2009, 06:19 PM

Hey i have a question..

Which private medical university(listed up there) is the best among all? In term of fee structure.

If you go for cheaper + good quality go to AIMST. You gonna get bored with the food but everything else is quite fun. Try questioning the 'Unofficial AIMST' thread for more info.

im not a doctor or a medical student but this situation we are facing is worrisome. i cannot open a newspaper without seeing adverts for obscure "medical schools" in russia or ukraine or indonesia or some other far off land. to make things worse, random private "medical schools" have mushroomed under the malaysian obsession of becoming a doctor, no matter how stupid one is. admittedly, one need not be a any more of a genius to be a good doctor than to be a engineer or a good accountant - contrary to what many doctors would have you believe - but the rigorous training required for a doctor-to-be cannot possibly be provided when all and sundry are admitted into the programme (one year post-spm preparation? you gotta be kidding me) and training hospitals are in another country and the arrangements are primarily for the financial gain of the other partner?

what does JPA and MARA know about good medical training anyway? all they want to see is that their sponsored students, who are none the wiser with regards to what a good medical training should be, are fit and well and happy with their training.

limeuu hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the idiocy of the different ethnic groups who insist on their own medical schools, to pander to the doctor-wannabe kids of their colour, regardless of aptitude and attitude, so they could pass it off as an achievement come election time.

i worry when i pass private clinics where the doctor lists their qualifications at the door from random places (am i supposed to feel assured that the person treating me for a premium went to Calicut?). i do not foresee this situation getting any better in the near future with what we are dealing at the moment.

the powers that control all this is not interested in the quality or safety of healthcare in the country........it becomes a game of numbers........how many malay, chinese and indian doctors there are......what is the ratio (1:1000?, 1:600)......

the people who actually have to deal with this on the ground, ie the moh, are stuck with many poorly trained and often incompetent fresh graduates entering the hospitals.......some of these doctors become a liability rather than an asset.....instead of an extra pair of hands in helping to cope with the non-ending stream of patients in gov hospitals, someone has to keep an eye on these doctors to make sure their mistakes do not do too much harm.....

mistakes happen? you bet........all the time.......you will be surprised how frequent......the case i mentioned here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/942204/+40 .....that contract doctor (actually from pakistan, not india[p/s in response to below, the doctor stated on the phone she is from india, but as determined by the name chop in the referral letter, she is from pakistan]) made a wrong diagnosis of the bleeding, being only able to think of piles and unable to think of any alternative possible diagnosis, did a rectal examination and completely MISSED a rectal tumour......... if not for the fact that the patient has insurance and insisted on referral to a private hospital, that pakistani doctor will continue to treat that patient as piles.........!

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:02 AM

So that doctor is a Pakistani grad instead of an Indian grad like you claimed? Whether or not you made the mistake intentionally or unintentionally, you gave me the impression that you would modify the facts just to back your argument.

Also, pls put a full stop to generalization. You always claimed that you didn't generalize, but in the end, you are the one making all the generalization.

Posts like these have definitely made me lost all my respect for you.

there is no generalisation, there IS a problem with india trained doctors as a group......one cannot tell superficially if they are good or bad.......

i stand by my opinion that because of inconsistency in standards, all doctors from russia, india, indonesia will be viewed with suspicion, and they will need to prove themselves competent individually.........this view acknowledges there are many good competent doctors from these mentioned places.....just as there are many bad ones.........and this distinction needs to be made on an individual basis.......

these are the facts of this issue.........if one feels upset because one belongs to one of these groups, tough.......just go prove yourself.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:12 AM

is there a tough testing regime in place that every doctor has to go through before he is allowed to practice in malaysia? should that not filter out the graduates of dodgy medical schools out of our healthcare system?

like said, it has become a numbers game.......

no, if you graduate from a scheduled (ie recognised under section 13/2 of the medical act), you are registrable.......and that list contains a lot of doggy unis........

to make matters worse, a backdoor exist.....if you graduate from unscheduled uni ie not recognised (section 13/3), you can sit for an exam, pitched at 4th year level, and if you pass, get registered......many cannot pass after multiple attempts (allowed 3), and the gov has now 'absorbed' them into ipta medical schools, for 'retraining'.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:27 AM

I believe all doctors should be judged on individual basis, regardless of where they graduated from. As i have said many times before, in most developed countries (including Singapore), one is not allowed to display his/her qualification with place of origin in bracket, which is being practiced in Msia. No matter how famous a medical school is, there will always be bad apples, just that they might be less.

Ever heard of a case of a session of angiogram being done across the span of 2 days, with guide wire taped to patient's thigh after the first day as there was no catheter available in the hospital? This happened to one of my mom's friends who went to a private hospital in Kedah, and angiogram was performed by a chinese cardiologist with MBBS(UM) and MRCP(UK). In addition, the patient was being charged for 2 sessions of angiogram.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 09:26 AM

obviously ignorant about the difference between adhoc and sequential PTI..........

why don't you do some more research as to the difference, and why this case happens this way......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:30 AM

PTI? Pardon the interruption? Or do you mean PCI (percutaneous coronary intervention)

I guess you are the ignorant one eh? What if organisms gain entry via the femoral atery? Also being charged twice for a session of angiogram? As i have stated above, the reason for this to happen was due to the shortage of catheter needed to inject the dye, and the particular doctor only realised that after inserting the guide wire into patient's femoral artery. Then, patient was asked to go home, instead of being observed in the hospital for possible signs of infection.

Mind you, only coronary angiography was being done, no balloon or stent was involved.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 09:50 AM

typo........

from the facts of the case, it appears then a problem with the hospital, and the managers of the cath lab, rather than the doctor......

also this sometimes happens when specific catheters are required due to the configuration of the anatomy, which may not be stocked by especially small medical centers........

i think you will need to get more information about this particular before pointing fingers.......and the fingers will mostly point at the medical centre, not the doctor.......charging is done by the hospital.......and that is another big issue.......the ballooning of private healthcare costs, and the increasing charges in private hospitals.......(and i might add, shrinking doctors income in some cases)....doctors are as much victims as patients.....

this has nothing to do with the issue at hand......ie quality and competency of young doctors in msia.......

Is anybody currently studying medicine overseas? Is it a good choice? Do you have any recommandation? Which overseas medical school is the best? In term of fee structure as well..

Well, many ply their route to Russia or Indonesia to study. To get to view of how good is the university you could go here.

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

This is the list of university recognized by Singapore and its criteria is more strict than in Malaysia. I don't know if this politically motivated or its actually a fact but not even one Russian university is recognized. So only go to university that is recognized. Australia is one of the better place to study with competitive fees.

Again, being ignorant, or just plain lack of knowledge.

How can the patient be sent home with the guide wire being taped to the thigh? What if secondary infection occurs? What if the guide wire cause endothelial damage to the vessel? Also before doing any procedure, shouldn't the performing doctor make sure that all necessary equipments were available? In addition, the doctor could have just referred the patient to another hospital for the completion of the procedure.

If i am not mistaken, a complaint has been filed by the patient to the MMC.

Therefore, don't generalize, but judge the doctors based on individual performance.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 04:26 PM

why does the gov wants to absorb the bad students into ipta med schools back? compassion? shouldn't they just ditch them or encourage them find another carreer? i never knew there was such thing...no wonder there are agents in msia sending students to romania, czech republic etc....

yes, i am ignorant and lack knowledge about the specifics of the case, since details are not forthcoming therefore it is not possible to make more than general comments....but i can see the glee in the eyes.....

some people however are very quick to pass judgement....

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Added on February 23, 2009, 5:05 pmpolitics.....many have strong connections with the politicians....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 05:07 PM

Not enough details? Why dun you tell me under what circumstances guide wire can be left in people's femoral artery for a day without admission to the hospital?

Glee?? Yes, indeed. Not that i enjoy insulting you, just that your lack of knowledge along with your claim as an experienced doctor grad from UM amuse me.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 05:14 PM

are you sure it is a guide wire and not something else? you saw it? info from the doctor or a lay person patient/relative?.....sure it is femoral?.....i suggest you get your facts right first.......

i think i know what happened, but that would be speculating....

there is NOT enough hard facts about the case, but if you insist on making unwarranted conclusions on the case as a means to insult me, it's okay.......just shows you belligerent personality........that's all.....

like said i foresee problems with relationships with peers and superiors in future.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 05:22 PM

Judging me again eh?

The facts were narrated by the patient, after seeking 2nd opinion from another cardiologist. Therefore, a complaint has been filed, and legal action might be taken against that particular hospital for charging twice.

Why dun you share your thought on the possible scenario?

Insulting you?? Nah, just trying to give you the taste of your own medicine. You have insulted many under the banner of "Stating the Truth".

If your logic is right, i guess you dun have a good peer and superior relationship also.

BTW, who's the one calling people ignorant regarding the facts on adhoc and sequential "PTI" when he himself doesn't know the abbreviation for percutaneous coronary intervention?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 05:31 PM

yes judging you.......i think it all openly obvious to all........based on what is written here.......the personal attacks....

my comments to others here is based simply on the principle that people who are not qualified should not attempt to do medicine by hook or by crook.......if the fact that one hasn't got the necessary qualification to do medicine is insulting, well, what to do, facts are facts.....nothing personal........

i have degraded myself by becoming 'personal' with you here......therefore i will stop here, and go back to impersonal mode, and only make comments based on basic principals and facts.......

Let's put that aside. Why dun you share your thought on the case scenario i have provided? I thought you said doctor/medical student should always look for opportunity to learn.

BTW, dun always hide under the banner of "Stating the facts" and "nothing personal". Many in this forum have been offended by you. If you want to judge the others, pls have the balls to admit it.

Is IMU recognised by the s'porean?

factual reply: mbbs(imu) no........

How about your factual reply to my case scenario? Giving up already?

no facts available to make factual reply........

IMU only recognized if you get to UK or others which recognized by SMU in your twinning year. So it actually kinda recognized by SMU.

those who go through the pms stream do NOT graduate from imu........they graduate from the respective pms........so if you don't tell, nobody will know you came from imu........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 08:14 PM

Then what was all the noise about then? I posted up a real case scenario, and you ridiculed me and called me ignorant.

If you have no facts in hand, by all means pls be quiet.

Well thats the best thing about IMU. But does everyone get to do oversea or only top 50 for example get there?

Also, I think this argument really got to stop. Agree to disagree anyone?

need facts of the particular case, not hearsay........don't gossip........

I think that before you enter IMU, they will ask you whether you are opting for the PMS route or the IMU-S'ban route. So as long as you choose the PMS route, I would think that you will get a place to study oversea.

one chooses the stream on entry, and generally cannot change after that.......

if one is in the pms stream, and passes all the exams, one is GUARANTEED a place in one of the pms......

but be warned, failure rate is high, on average 20+% fails eos2 (1st year exam), and by the 5th semester, only about 60-70% are left from the intake........

i have stopped the personal arguments already.......pointless.......

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Added on February 23, 2009, 9:06 pmso how many made it to the end out of the total who started, in your cohort?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:06 PM

Isn't that your strong point?

Look who's the gossip king here.

Why the double standard now?

find the difference between personal knowledge and hearsay.......

So info obtained from the party involved is hearsay to you? When legal action is about to be taken, it's a hearsay to you too, Gossip King?

So the info you obtained from your "doctor" friends are not hearsay? Do you know the definition of hearsay?

Technically, All the things we claim here are mostly hearsay, unless you can back it up with hard evidence.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 23 2009, 09:28 PM

experiencing oneself is personal knowledge (present at exam, receiving new doctors graduates from uk).......not being present at an event, in this case a procedure, is hearsay......

So you are implying that you were in the exam where a student failed to give you normal values of FBC. And you were there in Singapore to witness a marked increase in msian uk graduates applying and working in spore??

Hmmm. Inconsistent again.

i don't know why i bother, the info came from people who have first hand knowledge of these facts........

you either take note of the info as presented in good faith, or just ignore it if you think they are incorrect....others may find them useful.....

i give up.....argue just for the sake of arguing.......good luck to your future.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 23 2009, 09:43 PM

If you are referring to the place where I am currently studying, here are some counter-questions and answers for you.
Firstly, What is wrong with having the training hospital in another country? or better yet, having the entire program conducted abroad?

Tell me if it is any different from having other Malaysian students studying medicine in various medical faculties around the world. Don't they need a training hospital in those countries? (just think of IMU-PMS, for instance).

The same goes with the financial gain that the foreign universities benefit from having our students studying in their universities. Or do you expect Malaysians to be allowed to study there for a minimal fee or perhaps free of charge? What benefit would they get out of that?

For your information, the program structure for MBBS in India may not be the same with other MBBS programs outside of India.

To get the MBBS in India, one needs to study for 4.5 years. Then followed by 1 year of internship in an approved hospital in India (becomes of a Houseman in India for 1 year). Only after that, one can be considered a Medical officer and may proceed to apply for specialization (MD) training.

Here is my program structure:




Now, Malaysian students have to serve in Indian hospitals for 1 year as a houseman, and then return to Malaysia and serve for another 2 years of housemanship in government hospitals. As you can see, those that study in India will have an additional 1 year of training / experience as a houseman.

JPA and MARA are the sponsors for many medical students studying abroad. They will consult with MMC regarding the "good medical training" available abroad or by IPTS in Malaysia prior to sending their sponsored students.

For example, MMC have been continuously assessing the quality of the institution and MBBS program conducted in my place for over 3 years now, the most recent visit by them was on January. They came and made assessment as well as giving seminars.

Here are some pictures:



Dr. Hj Wan Mazlan Bin Mohd. Woojdy - Secretary for the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC)
Refer here: http://mmc.gov.my/v1/index.php?option=com_...id=58&Itemid=92



Mr.Perumal a/l Chinnaya - Legal Officer for the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC)




From the left: Dr. Hj Wan Mazlan Bin Mohd. Woojdy, Mr.Nicky Tenant (my classmate), Mr.Perumal a/l Chinnaya, and Datuk Dr.Abdul Gani bin Mohammed Din (Our Dean for the MSU-International Medical School)


Additional Note regarding our Dean:
Datuk Dr.Abdul Gani bin Mohammed Din,
is the former Deputy Director-General of Health (Medical) for the Malaysian Ministry of Health and former Director of Medical Development Division Ministry of Health.
He is one of the individuals that oversees and responsible for the development of MSU-IMS.


As Limeuu previously stated, MARA and JPA are not involved in the assessment of Medical institutions of higher learning, however both will refer to MMC regarding that matter.