It is related in a way. But at least we're not asking for an immediate change anymore. It's for the people to decide

I don't mind either mod. I just can't stand dying to random nades. God bless DAMN for nerfing the distance a nade can travel.

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 6 2008, 03:44 AM

Drebin:Endless Proxies Wars xD

Hey, Just a small player but reading this thread makes me amuse by the topics u guys drag on. U guys think is funny when u guys are not making things more competitive. In competitive gaming things are suppose to be balance. Or else why would company like blizzards cover the bugs and balance the races in their patch. Well no one likes to play a game with a "IMBA" hero or imagine u playing cs with someone that basically have 90 life and when he lands on the floor he can kill u with a de with "one hit"? Last stand

You all shouldn't make a ruleset that is only playable in your own country. What if a team hits big time in the country and train on the PAM 4.02 Ruleset which is not recognize. So being malaysia's number 1? and nothing outside..
well in DOTA malaysian team dint made thier own map with thier own skills and stuff. Is a good community i understand. But shouldnt we get a international ruleset and fix the whole thing to a better competitive gaming community. moving towards the cs way of competitive gaming is not wrong, can anyone actually deny that cs is one sided or anything is more on real skills that a gamer imbued to themselves in the hardwork, dedication, passion to the game.

Well im really sure we all wanna see a malaysia team up on the grand stand playing with maybe eG or Pandemic who knows.. As the known person in this community here in malaysia, You all should at least take courtesy to make this dreams happened.. Thats why a team top here it could be nothing out there from what all we have seen and experience in the WCG in Singapore this year only RVG manage to make to the fourth place. I'm not discriminating. But sorry, we don't really want that to happen anymore, in the mere future of this gaming community. who would even want that?

Making a united ruleset in a gaming community pushes us further to the international standard. instead of stuck here and hardly anyone will be known internationally in this case, we are suppressed under a different ruleset that is fixed by you. No clan can be perfect in two ruleset at the same time. If u guys would really prefer to be suppressed under this rule created it will be really pointless to continue playing in competition in national standards where the real gamers is absence. All gamers wants to be the top not at national levels that is.

This post has been edited by Unwind: Dec 6 2008, 04:00 AM

If you stand at pixel A, aim at pixel B and toss a grenade, and that grenade always lands at pixel C, then there is no randomness.

If you stand at pixel A, aim at pixel B and toss a grenade, and that grenade doesnt always land at pixel C, then there is some randomness.

Didn't play much COD4, but you guys seem confused in your arguments about randomness occuring or not, with one blaming on human error, and another, or in-built randomness.

Simple test, get a mod with infinite grenades, line up a target, and use your KEYBOARD to toss grenades non stop. If all grenades land on the same spot, = no randomness. If they scatter, Random! This test however, will be upset if there is scope drift even in nading mode, in which case, there should be pattern to the scattering if there is no randomness, and no detectable pattern if there is.

1. In the occasion there is absolutely no randomness, then with great practice can come great accuracy. Something we call pixel-shot in BF2. This IS a skill.

2. In the occasion there is randomness in the scattering of objects and prjectiles, then I would say that some things will be based on luck, and not skill. and screw ups can, and will happen. This gives a chance to the "less-pro" to suddenly get lucky and win the "more-pro" and not be totally dominated. Friendly for newbs.

In the occasion there is no randomness, but a persistent scope drift, we again have two categories:
If scope drift is random movement = refer to no.2

If scope drift is a fixed cycle = refer to no.1


Of course, as a programmer, I can always say there's no such thing as a real random number, but... whatever ^^

Picked a pixel shot vid from Youtube if you wanna see one ^^
Pixelllsss!

This post has been edited by RahXeph0n: Dec 6 2008, 04:21 AM

Omg, thank you.

You've managed to put hit the proverbial nail on the head. The game itself does not suffer from a "random" engine but human "error". The unlimited grenade thing is perfect, if tossed at an angle against the wall the nade will nearly always hit the same spot. =)))

Then again I did make the point of shit does happen. I don't believe in randomness, i believe in odds. Once it passes beyond the point of human comprehension it appears random.

Oh hi! I was just wondering since you guys are debating this problem, can you help me out with something? What happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force?

Is this one of those, "If a tree falls down in a forest but there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?" questions?

A lot of things are associated with luck but luck is not random, it is an intangible effect on what you do in every situation.

Random is a calculated measurement out of an array of values. Each value MAY have a different effect. Randomizing just means shuffling the effects between each other until one is selected. If you try to nade a spot 10 times, but you only hit it once, its not random. It means you have a 10 % chance of hitting that spot with your current settings/environment.

Luck on the other hand, is not calculated. It happens whenever you do not plan something to occur. This maybe related to anything in game from a stray shot to an unprecedented jump or grenade. All this will never happen in a game, since luck is an intangible value.

Randomization is the alternative to simulating such effects in a game, where a player/user may feel he was "lucky" but in actuality the value or effect that occured was actually a precalculated logic simulating that effect.

Compensation aids in reducing such effects, where most gamers would control their fire by moving the mouse while spraying their rifles, for example. There will be strays from time to time, but if it kills, its not random, its luck. Despite his efforts to control his rifle, the bullet strays off his target but kills his opponent who CHOSE to move from point a to point b while engaging him.

If you're trying to make a game that isnt "random" that means everything has a predefined value, which means damages are always a set number, example a monster always does 10 damage to you so long as it hits you. Even if you set and array to 2 numbers, means 1-2, so long as the user has direct control of these values, its not random. If you see what is written in the game engine or files for COD4, nothing is random, they are calculated/predefined values. They may be however, imbalanced in terms of damage or speed. Modders may infact cause the engine to malfunction if they do not know or understand how these codes work. Therefore, whatever bug they find, may be a bug they caused by changing certain values.

The perception of random is different from each person, so what may seem random to you, may seem like luck to another or skill to somebody else. This topic really doesnt need to be argued, since all games have a coded randomizer (mathematical formulae used to process these values) to continuesly keep things going.

Anyway, back on topic, if you have any suggestions, just go for the team leader meeting.

Of course not silly ! The tree does make a noise!

You haven't answered my question!

DA u do know that impossible. both things are contradicting each other.
same goes as the story of the spear and the shield

the shield seller claims that this shield can block any strongest spear in the world.and the spear seller says that his spear can break throught any shield.

so one guy steps up and ask so wad happen if i take your spear and pierce through his shield. who wud win?

i wud say words sre useless unless tests runs on diff methods to determine which has the better pro's and con's ^^

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Added on December 6, 2008, 10:42 amlol at sanc hahahaha~

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Added on December 6, 2008, 10:44 amp.s i've tested the DAMM mod. so replica of cs. carb avaliable on sas and ak only avaliable on spetz. lolx

and the menu accesible on gun selection it's soooooo cs style where number of guns and eq's are displayed hahahah~~~ very reminds me of cs days. ^^

This post has been edited by AeonStrife: Dec 6 2008, 10:44 AM

Use the Force.

You get a DA.

i have a DA mouse ei. i duwan a live DA pestering me with sheebaiiiiii over vent LOL~

You Sir, w1n!

sorry double post XD

This post has been edited by AeonStrife: Dec 6 2008, 11:39 AM

dude... if u want someone to explain u about "random variables" do u want my maths lecturer's cell number?
Come on... wateve la that bouncing imbawtfpwnbbq nade kiled those guys.
Doesnt mean just because of that u have to change it.
we will adapt fairness.
Blast radius watever...
doesnt matter...
Where does it end?
Is the new mod of cod4 is gonna be like a PONG game?
everything predictable.
Dont give stupid excuses.
Nothing is ever surely gonna happen.

If u guys really really really hate the mod, then why dont just go work for activisionblizzard and create a new game after your name?

Just stop it.
Dont try to be what u cant be or wat u cant do.

JUST PICK SOMETHING AND DEAL WITH IT!

CoD4 does have its randomness. Does anyone realise you don't actually run 100% straight in the game? :S Hence nades do get random. Trust me on that one.

Heres what you do. Try to find a straight line in the game. Walk as far as possible with ur mouse aligned to the other end of it without using your strafe buttons.

lol. You'll get what I mean.

It's fun actually, you should go try lol. srsly no joke.

I'd rather play CS:Source. Although I haven't tried teh mod. Mod up in ProZone please.

Really not my business, but just thought you guys might wanna weigh it out. Sometimes, adding randomness into a game breaks it's competitiveness. I won't deny it makes things more relaxed, as the learning curve of a game with many random outcomes will plateau at an earlier point than a game with less random variables that will reward Precision.

But it doesnt always. Take for example, FPS on consoles vs FPS on PC. Console FPS usually have more random modifiers thrown in, because game developers know you will never (or almost never) have the precision of a mouse in PC FPS games, but console FPS (Halo, etc) are thriving still. WHY? Because the game designers will compensate for the lack of innacuracy by increasing (or decreasing) game pace, size of maps, and game modes, damage to hp ratio, etc.

So the real question is, is COD a Console game, ported to PC, or a PC game ported to Console? It can't be both, and be competitive on both platforms. The mod chosen for competitive play on the PC, internationally as well, should weigh this question IMO.

BTW I assumed you guys were talking about PC-gaming. heh.

And Crashtec, perhaps I should have used the term 'pseudo-random', but anyway, I'm sure you get what I mean ( =