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@ strayfar
I don't know about your grenade hitting a pole and bouncing off a wall entering through the window and killing the guy inside, but... the reason why cs doesn't have that is because they don't have ANY terrain or objects in it. So you can't bounce stuff off.

Now what if i was DELIBERATELY bouncing the nade off the pole? Would it be random then?

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Added on December 6, 2008, 1:49 amBesides, according to the Damn modfiles there is a 30% drop in shrap radius. So he better be a really good player to bounce that grenade. Would take a lot of skill.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 01:49 AM

The scenario was in a normal mod. Not in Damn. It'd be quite impossible to deliberately hit the pole behind a building that's blocking a view and to get it to actually bounce off into a certain direction, you gotta be joking.

But when playing hardcore i throw grenades by lining up the first finger on my screen with a terrain feature. While i admit i won't know which way a grenade will fly once it hits the object i can effectively throw the nade at a pole within a few sprites of a pole. so roughly 1 out of 8-9 times i'll hit the pole. Use the grenade mod and practice =) you'll know exactly where your grenade goes. Teq knows about this. We practice prenading using the mod.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 2:06 amOh btw, you can ask anybody on my team, when prenading I set myself up by running the same line over and over again. So that the deviation for my prenade is consistently within a 3 feet circle. Thats called practice which is what competitive gaming is about. No sarcasm intended.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 02:06 AM

Yes I do know about the nade mod and yeah, you prove my point. You only hit the pole a few times. It's not a 100% thing therefore it can be considered a random factor. There are just too many things that can happen in COD4 which can really become a turning point in a game.

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 6 2008, 02:18 AM

The reason why it's not 100% is because it involves human interference. The game itself is NOT random, only the player is.

Doesn't matter does it? At the end of the day, something retarded is still possible.

And that'll be due to human error

It's not about who's error is it. The fact that it is possible is already enough. Don't you get it?

Imagine a tiebreaking 7-7 score game and suddenly some nade bounces of all corners and some how ends up at a spot where it is usually safe to run and 4 of your teammates die there.

It's ridiculous.

So why bother playing a game which is 100% confirmed? You mean if my aiming is not as good as yours it's still equal? It's also called gambling. Which is what you do whenever you make a decision. You decide to take path A or Path B. Both are a gamble. How are you to know if the enemy will be down either path? Isn't that randomness?

So if i throw my nade at a pole, i'm choosing to gamble in the hopes that my nade will hit the pole and GO into the window thus pwning the guy who thinks it's totally random. No, it's a low chance, but it i'll take it anyways.

Take a deck of cards. 52 cards in a deck. What are the odds of an ACE of SPADES coming out. 1 out of 52. Is that randomness? No. That chance still changes as more and more cards are removed. It's called betting against the odds. By training, i lessen the odds of something random happening.

So if i shoot between 4 poles at something 2 pixels wide and KILL someone with a headshot but i only do it 1 out of 500 times, isit random? or isit skill? I mean, hell those CS players must be all geniuses.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:01 amI wish people would think out their logic a bit further before writing it down. I can easily refute your logic because it doesn't make sense. Most of the things i have mentioned are very common abstract thinking methods which i'm sure tequila is aware of. It happens all the time. So if i suspect someone is behind a wall and i spray the guy and he dies... is that random, or intuition? The odds say that by using a RPD and spraying in a random direction on backlot in a 12 on 12 game i'll hit someone eventually. Is that randomness? Or isit chance? or isit math? or what?

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:04 amOh and in reference to your 7-7.

I'd like to say this. Shit happens. Why was your team there in the first place? Didn't you guys train enough to prevent that sort of thing happening? Isn't that what Teq is talking about when they mean professional? I mean seriously, the fact is that if it's 7-7 means that both team are equal, and just because you can't do it doesn't mean someone else can't. I thought some areas of backlot were safe from nades until i got naded there. First thing i did was ask how they did it. And they told me. And i was like "shit i didn't know that."

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 03:04 AM

Nothing is 100% confirmed. All I'm saying is that we should minimize the possibility of something like that to happen.

It's your choice if you're going to take that chance. But if you have the intention of blowing him up inside, it's a different story. Because you actually practice which makes it possible. I'm talking about doing the unpractical.

No doubt things like these happen but it should be kept at a minimal because if you keep dying like that, I don't think anyone would enjoy playing this game competitively because it's way too unpredictable.

And what I was giving was a scenario. It can happen to any other team.



Bro, do you get what I mean by random? I don't think you do. You prepare and train to avoid something predictable. If shit like that happens, who would know? 4 of us go to a cover which somehow was breached by a nade. Who would've expected that? Either you're contradicting your own points or you don't really understand what I'm talking about.

And you say I don't make sense...

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 6 2008, 03:13 AM

Ok, so what you're saying is he just randomly throws a grenade in the air and blows up a guy by accident, or 2 or 3. Can you prove that it was a random toss? Why do people throw grenades? To kill someone.

Lets assume that your scenario.
Some guy throws a random grenade in the general direction of your team. The grenade bounces off a window sill, into a pole and off the side of the helly which just allows it to roll 1 foot into the doorway facing away from the enemy!! his grenade entered the doorway backwards.

I'd say, OMGWTFPWNBBQ.

Anyways, It's 3:10 AM. I'm going to bed, i have work tomorrow. I understand your point and what you wish to do but it's impossible to eliminate "Random" behaviour in the game. Teq should know. he was there with me in SG. I knifed 2 guys tagging together with AKs blasting at me. I was effective stock perking with SP. Now, everything i did was by instinct with no preset movement, isn't that pretty random already, in the same way i cannot calculate how they are going to move or how i'm going to move. in that way yes, it's gone beyond random and into the realm of chaos theory. One of these days i'll show you on a piece of paper what i mean by random. Hope to see you soon guys, cheers.

Sanction

its 3AM AND THE FIRES IS STILL ON!!!!(light my ciggs...)

I understood what you said. My point is this. The situation you just pointed out has happened a billion times in a games AND in REAL life. It is an aspect BEYOND the control of machines and humankind alike. A machine could probably calculate the probability to a billionth of a decimal but humans can't therefore while the scenario where the nade breaches your cover then blows away your team only happens 1 in a million times. It's bound to happen.

I'm sorry about the two sentences which i meant as sarcasm. It was just something grating when people like TEQ keep spouting that since we don't go PROMOD we're not good enough =) Oh wait, now you know how the rest of the people feel. I hope my point is made.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:18 amAnwyays, good night again. Work in the morning....

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 03:18 AM

Instincts come with experience and skill. Randomness comes from luck.

They blend to make the sweetest of kills. But if you're talking about some random prenade which eliminates an entire team due to its weird landing, I'd say it's nothing to do with instincts. (Note random nade meaning the thrower himself never knew of such a thing and not intentional) I'm sure some of us experienced it before.

And yeah I think I've had enough for the night as well, good night.

Pixy you should go sleep as well

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 6 2008, 03:22 AM

Working on my stuffs lah cb xD

Last post, i swear, this convo is interesting. Yeah i know what you mean. I tossed a nade into the air and some random guy died. Happens all the time on pub in Wetworks. I wasn't aiming for him. And i didn't expect to kill anybody but he was unlucky.

But your nade tends to kill RealApple.

there is 1 thing i want to voice out long time...dont u think this arguement is endless??no matter how u guys argue the consequences is almost the same.Is Malaysia decisions whether which mod we will be playing..so i feel is kinda waste of time keep on argue-ing the same shit all over again...
Edited:We have our own rights to choose what RULESET that we are playing!~

This post has been edited by nightmarej4ck: Dec 6 2008, 03:33 AM

Our arguement progresses you see .

We're not arguing about which mod to play. We're arguing about randomness

It's good to have a debate once in a while. Keeps the mind active. Good for stoned people like you lah Pixy

lol..but i feel like related to it lor xD