I'm still trying to figure something out which no one has by far answered.

How is having different perks unskilled =.=" several times it has been mentioned in several threads that having perks is not supportive of competitive gameplay.

I read through the promod ruleset and just had a go at the DAMN mod. I've also listened to the shoutcast from the other thread.

Concerning ProMod, they say things like nosway fix. A fix means there was something wrong with the orginal issue. Were these guys unable to handle "gunsway"? Did they not like jumping at particles onscreen? Could their fingers not handle pressing an EXTRA key on the board to hold their breath? I seriously don't understand why competitive gaming seems to be made easier and easier.

I never had any issues with using any of the MODs, but seriously TEQ, your attitude sucks. You merely scream the words competitive over and over again while spouting that others are screwing up. You have not seemed to be able to actually say something useful from the last collection of posts you have made. For one second stop being the damned prophet of doom. The best part I realise is, you behave like a whiner. Face to face you never really have anything to say, but then you run home, hide behind your screen and then scream out that other ideas suck and that you're the jesus christ of gaming, "Follow me if you want to get to heaven." In the first place, most of your "points" are SUBJECTIVE and based on your own opinion. I listened to some of the things that those guys said and read a couple of debates on the matter and seriously, PAM4 is OLD and dying, promod was developed to counter some of the discrepancies that PAM4 did not have. Great. But DID they have to take EVERYTHING away from the game? I saw your list of fundamentals to have in a game.

That is NOT an attitude that a respectable and reliable person should have. Correct me if i'm wrong seriously.

I've spoken to brian and yes we're probably going to go for Damn: MW because "it's the future." God's I've just read the changelog for DAMN. It actually looks a lot better than i hoped.

Bah.

I've got no issues playing only SND. That's what we play most of the time anyways and the rest of the maps are just meatgrinder fests. And I have something for people to think about. If someone can't use a particular mod and win; does it mean he's not good enough, or too good for the game? Just something to think about.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 01:33 AM

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@ strayfar
I don't know about your grenade hitting a pole and bouncing off a wall entering through the window and killing the guy inside, but... the reason why cs doesn't have that is because they don't have ANY terrain or objects in it. So you can't bounce stuff off.

Now what if i was DELIBERATELY bouncing the nade off the pole? Would it be random then?

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Added on December 6, 2008, 1:49 amBesides, according to the Damn modfiles there is a 30% drop in shrap radius. So he better be a really good player to bounce that grenade. Would take a lot of skill.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 01:49 AM

But when playing hardcore i throw grenades by lining up the first finger on my screen with a terrain feature. While i admit i won't know which way a grenade will fly once it hits the object i can effectively throw the nade at a pole within a few sprites of a pole. so roughly 1 out of 8-9 times i'll hit the pole. Use the grenade mod and practice =) you'll know exactly where your grenade goes. Teq knows about this. We practice prenading using the mod.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 2:06 amOh btw, you can ask anybody on my team, when prenading I set myself up by running the same line over and over again. So that the deviation for my prenade is consistently within a 3 feet circle. Thats called practice which is what competitive gaming is about. No sarcasm intended.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 02:06 AM

So why bother playing a game which is 100% confirmed? You mean if my aiming is not as good as yours it's still equal? It's also called gambling. Which is what you do whenever you make a decision. You decide to take path A or Path B. Both are a gamble. How are you to know if the enemy will be down either path? Isn't that randomness?

So if i throw my nade at a pole, i'm choosing to gamble in the hopes that my nade will hit the pole and GO into the window thus pwning the guy who thinks it's totally random. No, it's a low chance, but it i'll take it anyways.

Take a deck of cards. 52 cards in a deck. What are the odds of an ACE of SPADES coming out. 1 out of 52. Is that randomness? No. That chance still changes as more and more cards are removed. It's called betting against the odds. By training, i lessen the odds of something random happening.

So if i shoot between 4 poles at something 2 pixels wide and KILL someone with a headshot but i only do it 1 out of 500 times, isit random? or isit skill? I mean, hell those CS players must be all geniuses.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:01 amI wish people would think out their logic a bit further before writing it down. I can easily refute your logic because it doesn't make sense. Most of the things i have mentioned are very common abstract thinking methods which i'm sure tequila is aware of. It happens all the time. So if i suspect someone is behind a wall and i spray the guy and he dies... is that random, or intuition? The odds say that by using a RPD and spraying in a random direction on backlot in a 12 on 12 game i'll hit someone eventually. Is that randomness? Or isit chance? or isit math? or what?

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:04 amOh and in reference to your 7-7.

I'd like to say this. Shit happens. Why was your team there in the first place? Didn't you guys train enough to prevent that sort of thing happening? Isn't that what Teq is talking about when they mean professional? I mean seriously, the fact is that if it's 7-7 means that both team are equal, and just because you can't do it doesn't mean someone else can't. I thought some areas of backlot were safe from nades until i got naded there. First thing i did was ask how they did it. And they told me. And i was like "shit i didn't know that."

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 03:04 AM

Ok, so what you're saying is he just randomly throws a grenade in the air and blows up a guy by accident, or 2 or 3. Can you prove that it was a random toss? Why do people throw grenades? To kill someone.

Lets assume that your scenario.
Some guy throws a random grenade in the general direction of your team. The grenade bounces off a window sill, into a pole and off the side of the helly which just allows it to roll 1 foot into the doorway facing away from the enemy!! his grenade entered the doorway backwards.

I'd say, OMGWTFPWNBBQ.

Anyways, It's 3:10 AM. I'm going to bed, i have work tomorrow. I understand your point and what you wish to do but it's impossible to eliminate "Random" behaviour in the game. Teq should know. he was there with me in SG. I knifed 2 guys tagging together with AKs blasting at me. I was effective stock perking with SP. Now, everything i did was by instinct with no preset movement, isn't that pretty random already, in the same way i cannot calculate how they are going to move or how i'm going to move. in that way yes, it's gone beyond random and into the realm of chaos theory. One of these days i'll show you on a piece of paper what i mean by random. Hope to see you soon guys, cheers.

Sanction

I understood what you said. My point is this. The situation you just pointed out has happened a billion times in a games AND in REAL life. It is an aspect BEYOND the control of machines and humankind alike. A machine could probably calculate the probability to a billionth of a decimal but humans can't therefore while the scenario where the nade breaches your cover then blows away your team only happens 1 in a million times. It's bound to happen.

I'm sorry about the two sentences which i meant as sarcasm. It was just something grating when people like TEQ keep spouting that since we don't go PROMOD we're not good enough =) Oh wait, now you know how the rest of the people feel. I hope my point is made.

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Added on December 6, 2008, 3:18 amAnwyays, good night again. Work in the morning....

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 6 2008, 03:18 AM

Last post, i swear, this convo is interesting. Yeah i know what you mean. I tossed a nade into the air and some random guy died. Happens all the time on pub in Wetworks. I wasn't aiming for him. And i didn't expect to kill anybody but he was unlucky.

Omg, thank you.

You've managed to put hit the proverbial nail on the head. The game itself does not suffer from a "random" engine but human "error". The unlimited grenade thing is perfect, if tossed at an angle against the wall the nade will nearly always hit the same spot. =)))

Then again I did make the point of shit does happen. I don't believe in randomness, i believe in odds. Once it passes beyond the point of human comprehension it appears random.

Is this one of those, "If a tree falls down in a forest but there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?" questions?

Look Snapper. You said the record is 14-0 and 14-2. Great.

But what happens when a team comes up and plays against us 8-0. No offense to Bfnut, we could see there was something wrong after lunch, and they weren't playing their best, we could see it. And it wasn't their full team anyways. I think you provide poor examples for your competitive stifling of the locals. The best part is, you don't understand a few things which unfortunately are part of the community here. I'd say them out loud but then again, I'd be crucified. If you would like to know more, I'd be glad to PM you and illuminate you a bit further on this defect.

As you can see, you've already made accusation without knowing how much brian has been running around already. We are ALWAYS happy to visit singapore and we LOVE it when SG comes up to visit us. We have never made mention on whether you're professional or not and we all agree you're good players. Just because your organisers HAVE to open the tournaments to other countries to have a large number of people does not mean you have the right to come over and say that we're "protecting" our people. Personally the only way to learn is to lose over and over again because if you won all the time, you'd never learn anything. "Adversity breeds creativity." And if you cannot change you'll lose.

One more thing, what I do not like about supporters of Promod is this. Are you guys really so rude about it? I have never said Promod sucks on this forum. I may not like it personally but I've never said anybody was a douche bag for using it. So, Does using Promod automatically make you an *******? I can see that your post was posted condescendingly, the way you've worded your statement shows that you believe yourself superior in every way possible and your arguments show the same as well.

First you believe that PAM Mod is outmoded. This is true but have you grasped the concept of springboarding new teams into the arena? How many teams does SG have? Have you done as much work promoting the game? You have rich, highly concentrated and educated people within WALKING distance of each other. Why are there not more people? Thanks for FFF and RnF who often have to drive 30-45 minutes just to visit us. I can see they are making an effort to keep the community together. Are you? We've been using PAM4 to pull new teams in. If and WHEN they want to go professional that's THEIR choice. Fusion NEVER understood that or they would have kept their mouth shut all these months. They are arguing over something that they themselves don't understand.

I'm tired of hearing all these people pushing for a competitive mod. Seriously, it doesn't bloody matter what the bloody mod is. What matters is the AMOUNT of people that play it. Great we've got 8 clans from Sg and 2 from Malaysia who play "competitive" mods. Now look below.

We have a total of roughly 18 Confirmed teams and another 4 or 5 "under construction". The SRC tourney is in the midst of "manufacturing" more. So we have roughly... 100 men/women/kids playing this game? 60% of them game for "fun". Now, if you were suddenly convert them to say something "competitive", like Promod/Damn/insertCSLookalikehere, how many of them will swap over? 50%? 60%? There are STILL not enough people. So you get a total of 10 teams who are fixed so we can face each other over and over again.

If you guys can't be patient enough to even see the basic concept behind this, I feel very sorry for you, because it has been in planning for a year. If you think we didn't want the community to go professional, you have misunderstood everything from the start. A lot of the seniors have been gaming for 10 to 15 years. I've been gaming since 1995 with starcraft. Most of us are past it to go professional. We're making sure that that 17 year old in that little new clans gets the best possible chance to go PRO. With capital letters, totally unlike what TEQUILA thinks he is. The guy is lacking in social grace and the inability to actually convey his ideas properly. It's great that his team is "professional" and you know, "internationally" connected and all that Jazz. They obviously don't really care about the community as much as they care about being recognised themselves, because if they REALLY did care they would have understood what we were trying to do in the FIRST place instead of screaming we were doing it all wrong. Pui. Yes. You're so busy spouting your own religeon that you never understood a thing.

Sheesh, Rant off, i'm tired of typing though there is so much more to say, to explain and reveal.

For a second, think about the community and not where you bloody stand in it. It might reveal something about your motives.

Cheers
Sanction.

P.s Damn mod IS fun. Though the 5 second nades are a turnoff.

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Added on December 8, 2008, 3:33 amAnd no, this CoD subforum is comprised generally of Cod4 and a smattering of CoD5 players. you can post about anything CoD related though.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 8 2008, 03:33 AM

Effectively in short it will be that way.

Here's a very basic example of how a community works. It is more or less pyramid shaped.

Right at the bottom you have the casual gamers who play once in a while with no interest to really improve, this is the largest group and will never be beaten in size by any other group.
Above them you have people who play it with friends or who like playing with competitive rules but don't want to commit to gaming.
Above them you have the "weekend warriors" who take on tournaments every now and then and play together with the same team. They don't win but they don't mind losing.
Now you have active clans, people who actively practice and participate in local tournaments but don't have the time/commitment to push it through the barrier.
At the very top you have teams/clans/fraternities/Psychos who want to push the extra envelope and bring the war to other countries, aka the world.

Now, this is more or less a tried and proven view of most communities. Not everyone has the personal skill to carry it all the way to the top, no matter how hard they try. Now without the pool of less "professional" players who are the big teams at the top or the elite going to recruit? Who is going to fill up the numbers necessary for each event? The further up the pyramid you go the less people there are. I am talking logically or not? The MOD was never ever in question really. We've want the numbers, with numbers come some form of stability.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 8 2008, 04:17 AM

Now how are we going to do this? The idea has been put forth and was under internal discussion with a few others, however the most important thing you'd want to worry about it... MONEY!!! Now if we had a way to make it easy for some poor guy in Alor Setar with his awfully bad connection to play with us on equal grounds don't you think we'd have done it by now =.=". As it is, If I was a billionaire I'd organize a roadshow right now, oh wait, no I'd get my secretary and personal assistant to do it for me and they'd spread the word of CoD, Hell if I was a billionaire I'd sponsor tournaments and pay for the cash prizes into the 10's of thousands. I bet hundreds of gamers would clamor to join if i threw several million into the project, but sadly...... I'm not.

=(( pardon the sarcasm, I would had thought this was pretty obvious.

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Added on December 8, 2008, 4:37 amAnother thing I'd do, I'd start my own ISP and renegotiate it in such a way that unless our national ISP doesn't lower their rates they'd never be able to compete with me...Don't forget the installation of dedicated and proper wires which don't run on our copper phone network.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 8 2008, 04:37 AM

Here is the wonderful part. While we both know Sabah's CoD community is doing very well over there. "Hearsay". Which I don't know about because I haven't read about it since the last tournament and only 1 team managed to make it to WGT. So In a way, yes it is about the money.

Now, if a tourney were to be held in SG, who would be able to go down? 4? maybe 5 teams? The community is made up of mostly non-workers.

Even for the WCG event, ESP sent 2 teams. RVG sent 1. On ESP's side we were fortunate to have a sponsor of various parties. Some of the ESP's went down FLAT BROKE, with less than 50 SGD in their pocket. Some of the workers had to pay for the rest for small things that you wouldn't normally have to think about. I don't know but I remember, RVG staying on the other side of the border to save cash. How many teams are willing to do that?

=(( We knew that the WCG for SG would be tough from reports brought back from the SLing event earlier in the year. We still decided to go for the experience, regardless of losing like a dead rat. It was first time for some of the younger players and in one case it was the first time leaving the country.

I'm just saying that there is no real effective medium to communicate the game across state borders. The further away you get from major population centers the worse the connection becomes. Our National ISP isn't that keen to look after area's which have less people.

Hahahaha!! Oh yar Teq they did say that they took over your house. I forgot whose it was.