Ah..don't redirect the question back to me. I don't know any.

No one is dodging any bullet but for the 3rd time,
answer the simple question.

What do you believe in? not this God? what God? Not a God? Just a Creator? What about it?
Its a SIMPLE QUESTION..
so you're an atheist? no? then what?
again , DONT DODGE.. go straight to the point.. answer the question

Isn't that something personal between you and your Creator(God) only?

Should someone call you an atheist just because you don't tell them what you believe in? Everyone has their own personal beliefs. Are you wrong to call them atheists just because they don't want to be included in religions created by men with ulterior motives of manipulating societies?

Read my replies..
I did not say you are an atheist..
I'm merely asking you to state what you believe in...you make claims that these 'monkey' stuff is false.. okay.. then pray tell what you believe that is real..
for the fourth time! lols.

You cannot RE CREATE that scene.
No one here is the Messiah prophesied in the scriptures.
God wants the world to know He exists through His Messiah whom He sent down years ago.
That is up to you to believe Him or not.

What does damnation means to you?

Even among the various protestant groups there are different interpretations and different doctrines and practices. E.g. Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Methodists, etc accepts infant baptism, while Baptists, Pentecostals, AOG does not .

I am convinced. If you aren't, that is your problem. Life is all about choices.

Either you have a spirit of learning or a spirit of arguing.

Very good.. We can discuss biblically in this approach..
1 Corinthians 11: 29,30,"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."


DAMNATION... the best way to define it is to refer to the original greek text... KRIMA
which means
- Judgement/judgementS
- condemnation of wrong (severe or mild)

And if you would think this means "hell".. Remember. the Bible do not contradict itself..
Krima again can mean judgement of any kind/kindS.. not necessarily hell.. and in 1 Corinthians 11:29,30, we know its definitely NOT Hell because ? "....weak and sickly among you, and many sleep"
FOR THIS CAUSE.. it's an explanation of the 'KRIMA' received..

Hope the above enlightens you..

Having damnation [Greek: krima] because they have made void their first faith” (1 Tim. 5:12)

“Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God.And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation [Greek: krima]” (Rom. 13:2)

Making void their first faith, meaning they have not kept the faith when they first believed and resisting lawful authority, renders one to receive KRIMA. Also without faith it is impossible to please God as Heb 11:6 goes.

Isn't sad when there are some who thinks that infant baptism is not required, as if infant baptism offers no form of protection at all against the evil one.

I wont go into the details of your understanding for each of those verses yet..
but to remind you on the definition of KRIMA..
I have also cross checked all 'damnations' or 'Krima'.. it is indeed as defined below..
- Judgement/judgementS
- condemnation of wrong (severe or mild)


Due to that, there's a need to read 1 Timothy 5 to understand the 'Krima', and Romans 13:2, for what their 'Krima' is.
But one thing is clear, Krima as shown in Romans 2:2 clearly shows the example Krima is used for JUDGEMENT.. not HELL

Romans 2:2 ,"But we are sure that the judgment (κρίμα/Krima) of God is according to truth against them which commit such things."
1 Corinthians 6:7,"Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law (κρίμα/Krima) one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

Bible DO NOT contradict itself..
"...For this cause,.....weak... sickly among you.. sleep.."

Hope that clarifies your understanding on DAMNATION and KRIMA

I never said the Bible contradicts itself, for that I agree with you. What you mentioned shows the different degrees of judgement and condemnation, else it wouldn't make sense for some to be weak or sickly or some even dies a physical death (sleep). Now tell me, if the classic Protestant understanding of the Lord's Supper is merely a symbol, why could it cause different degrees of judgement and condemnation for people receiving unworthily? Since Krima is also used for those not keeping the faith, I do not see how your understanding is in harmony with Scripture.

.
Your misinterpretation of JOHN.10:28-29 is right here below, .......


.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 12:26 PM

.
I agree with your interpretation of "damnation or judgment" in 1CORINTHIANS.11:29-30. Proof verse, .......

1JOHN.5:16-17 = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Sins not leading to death = the judgment or curse of God can be weakness or sickness.

Sins leading to death = sleep.
.

Bonus Bible verses, .......

1COR.5: = Immorality Defiles The Church

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. ...
.

Immorality Must Be Judged

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

= the above sinner-brother/sister should be excommunicated from the Church. Who knows, maybe he/she will repent after suffering the judgment/curses of God = may still be saved from hell as long as he/she has faith in Christ until death/sleep.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 12:46 PM

if you can say that everyone has their own personal beliefs, then why are you here?

are you saying that everyone in this thread can't have their personal beliefs OR;

you are angry because their beliefs does not match yours?

Very good. Now you have pointed at me breaking down the verses.
So you are saying, me saying once saved forever saved , is MISINTERPRETATION because I highlight those verses.
Okay.. lets look at it.. and you go figure out what those words in English mean.

UNDERSTANDING JOHN 10:28
John 10:28,"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

1. "...I give.." - means? Jesus give right?
2. "....eternal life;" - means? FOREVER RIGHT? if Eternal is not forever, then okay, we have nothing to talk about anymore.
3. ".....they shall never perish.." - means? NEVER PERISH.. literally those words..
4. ".... Neither shall any man pluck them out.." - means? no man shall pluck them out.. literally those words..

UNDERSTANDING ANY CRAZY WEIRD CONDITIONS THAT YOU MAY THINK OF JOHN 10:28

Once Jesus gives you eternal life, you forever will have it
and i'm preempting your weird mindset.. that IF..YOU.. not me.. YOU.. IF... IF!.. you think God/Jesus will abandon His Children..
the following verses are SELF-EXPLANATORY..

AND YOUR CLAIMS I MISINTERPRET??

So okay, you say that ONCE SAVED , ALWAYS SAVED is misinterpreted..
why not i rephrase it..
Once Jesus gives you eternal life, you forever will have it(".....they shall never perish.." + ".... Neither shall any man pluck them out..")
And this is just based on 1 verse, while MANY MANY OTHER VERSES have the same meaning..


Conclusion
Question1 - is this "Once Jesus gives you eternal life, you forever will have it" wrong? if so, are you trying to say John 10:28 is wrong?
Question 2 - is this "Once Jesus gives you eternal life, you forever will have it" not the same with "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" ? if so, arent you conflicting yourself with the BIBLE?

And if you DONT AGREE.. please.. i would LOVE to hear how you explain away John 10:28..

Let's breakdown your reply into a few segments if you allow me to.
1. classic Protestant understanding of the Lord's Supper is merely a symbol

I don't think you understand fully the Lord's Supper
1 Corinthians 11:24," And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me."
"...in remembrance of me."
1 Corinthians 11:26,"For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come."
"...shew the Lord's death till he come."
1 Corinthians 11:29,"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
"....not discerning the Lord's body."

all your questions are answered in the Bible itself.
- Its not merely a symbol, its done in remembrance to show Lord's death.
- it causes different degrees of judgement, because the person show no discern of the Lord's body

2. Since Krima is also used for those not keeping the faith, I do not see how your understanding is in harmony with Scripture.
The scriptures are in harmony.
Krima is judgement.
And in most cases about sin, or in the event of not believing in Jesus, the 'Krima' is then elaborated further.
exp;
Matthew 23:33,"..damnation of hell?"
Luke 20:47,".... greater damnation."
Romans 3:8,"...whose damnation is just."
John 5:29,"...unto the resurrection of damnation."
and so on..

You cant use an ADVERB or NOUN to represents HELL.
Like you cant just say HIGH or HIGHEST to say its surely heaven ? Right?
The only thing you can say is in JUDGEMENT.. its surely because of something WRONG..
like what you can say HIGH or HIGHEST.. is some place or some thing above.

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 2 2024, 01:47 PM

As shown by cross-referencing JOHN.17:6-12, the Bible verses at JOHN.10:28-29 is referring to Christ's apostles, not to ALL Christians/believers or sheep. So, you are misusing the Bible verse at JOHN.10:28-29 to back up your false doctrine of ALL Christians/believers being "Once Saved, Always Saved", ".eternal life;...neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand...no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
------> (in case your opinions/comments is WHAT IF GOD/JESUS is the one that PLUCK IT OUT?)" and "true" Christians do not sin = "Once Saved, Always Saved", as per your false assertion of "And to your question of sinning Christians losing salvation.. 1 John 3:9"


.

Your reply didn't answer the discrepancy of using Krima for different degrees of punishment, even that for not keeping the faith. So I'm not sure we are on the same page.

As for the Lord's body and blood not merely a symbol, you are actually in disagreement with most Protestants on this topic.

"Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord."

Now being guilty of the body and blood of the Lord equates to the guilt of murdering the Lord.

This has a parallel in the Old Testament. See Lev 7:20.

"If any one that is defiled shall eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which is offered to the Lord, he shall be cut off from his people."

Our true peace offering being the unblemished sacrificial lamb of the New Testament is Jesus who offered his body and blood. And Paul knew about this parallel in the OT since he was a staunch Pharisee persecuting Christians before his conversion. Similarly being cut off from God's people in the OT is similar to being damned (losing salvation) in the NT.