.
So, what is your comment/opinion on the false doctrine of "Once saved, always saved" or OSAS, which 'unknown warrior' taught.?
.

[quote=lurkingaround,Aug 1 2024, 02:46 PM]


eg you were the one who first falsely accused me of believing in works for salvation from hell, and not solely in faith in Christ.


[/quote]

I did not falsely accuse..
1. Do you believe in active faith and that you can lose your faith? Yes
2. Do you believe that if you believe again, you regain that faith and the Holy Spirit? Yes
3. What did I accuse you? works for salvation
4. Why did I say its works ? it was from Ephesians remember?
And to that I said, you cannot 'work' or in your understanding, 'regain' your faith ? You probably did not read this. or ignored it
And I explain to you again.. based on your 'race' and 'crown' and 'reward', nothing we can do can save us.. Nothing means.. NOTHING.
I again explained to you, we were CHOSEN... yes we believe.. but even that was not OUR DOING.. it was GOD! God burdened our heart,
soften our heart, and we believed because of GOD!.
and I concluded, you dont lose your faith when you dont have one to begin with. And if you do have one, you cant lose it, because it was
never your ownership to begin with.
And all of the above, in the last few days were backed with BIBLE VERSES..
So if you believe in item 2, which part of my accusation .. is false?

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 1 2024, 02:57 PM

No, it means we have to accept and not opt out. We are rational human beings with free will. OSAS ultimately makes one a robot after switching the on button. There are plenty of verses that says we need to persevere.

The problem I noticed with unknown warrior is more on antinomianism, which is related to OSAS, but not exactly the same.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Aug 1 2024, 03:07 PM

For the second time , and in my previous reply
(if you even bother to read, and not just reply for the sake of it)

I told you I don't know what this guy or girl taught.
Whatever you think he taught, let me know.. I'll just refer to the Bible and then comment if its true or false..

As to my comment/opinion on Once saved, always saved,
those are NOT my comments but BIBLE VERSES which i showed you.
and again.. for probably the 50th time i told you, READ, and dont ignore it..

and if you need me to repeat it..for your salvation' sake..
Read!! and i wont even add my own words, in case you falsely accuse them as 'opinions/comments'
John 3:16
John 5:24
Romans 8:1

John 10:28-29," And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
"...eternal life;...neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand...no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

------> (in case your opinions/comments is WHAT IF GOD/JESUS is the one that PLUCK IT OUT?)
-----------> Matthew 28:20," Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
-----------> Hebrews 13:5, ""Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee"
-----------> Romans 8:38,39,"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
-----------> 2 Corinthians 5:17,"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



And to your question of sinning Christians losing salvation..
1 John 3:9

Let's be fair, Accepting to eat, yes, but it did not say opting out..
Persevere yes, but when you read on WHY you persevere, in the bible verses itself, its normally related to persecution, false doctrine..
and lets look at the word persevere.. which in Greek is hypomone, in other words also mean ENDURANCE... ENDURE.. so yes we persevere to the worldly matters and dangers.. but no where does it say persevere to not lose your salvation..


I've once more posted tons of verses about this in my most recent reply to the lurkingaround fella.. you can pick it up from there..

Falls back to 2 Corinthians 5:17,"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
1 John 3:9

A person who continues in sin , is probably not saved to begin with..

.
JOHN.10:28-29 needs to be cross-referenced with JOHN.17:6-12, in order to not misinterpret the former as applying to ALL "true" Christians/believers or sheep. .......

JOHN.17: = Jesus Prays For His Disciples (= apostles)
...
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father , keep through Your name those whom You have given Me , that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. ....

Jesus Prays For All Believers

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; ...
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 1 2024, 03:43 PM

In that case it it pointless to introduce OSAS since one cannot know the final state of the person in this life. As to that verse, we have a different understanding from that of Calvinists.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Aug 1 2024, 03:54 PM

Well, if you stop eating, you will also die sooner or later.

Heh, I wouldn't bother with someone that starts their sentence with "what is your opinion on false doctrine xyz".
You already win your playground fight, what else do you need, a cake?

The once saved thing is already elaborated by most apologists. Accept christ, stop bring a wicked, evil scumbag or at least try your damn best and struggle to reduce your sin (it won't be zero we all know it). It's a simple and beautiful concept.

Below is writeup I see somewhere from reddit on this matter. I agree you are eternally secured, if you keep your faith. And faith is not just about believing and faith is never alone

QUOTE
My understanding of James is that faith must produce the fruits that are somehow a proof of that living faith, opposite to the faith of demons (James 2 "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder*"*).

As long as you have faith you are saved, but Paul encourages us to see that a marathon, meaning you have to keep it until the end. 2 Timothy 4 ""I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

It's the end that matters, hence the criminal on the cross at the very last minutes of his life : Luke 23 "Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, 'Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus stated multiple times that it was the reality of faith that mattered like Matthew 7 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire" or "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

And the most important to me: Matthew 25:

"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me*.’*
They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me*.’ Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life*".

So yes, I agree, your salvation is assured as long as you keep the faith. Doesn't mean you can't doubt or have crisis, but that generally speaking you should be moving forward. And that this faith must produce fruits



This post has been edited by desmond2020: Aug 1 2024, 04:59 PM

sorry i dont understand your reply..
But i will try to my best..

we have all been chosen to be saved... its a pre-destined.. but yet we still need to believe to be saved.
John 15:16,"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

It was not our choice but God , that chose us, so that we eventually believe in Him..

and im not Calvinists.. if thats what you are saying..

Sorry i dont understand either.. that is exactly what the bible say that a person will die if you CHOOSE to eat manna.. and the whole point is to say God's salvation , unlike FOOD, gives eternal life..

That's not the same understanding that I have about that verse. Manna is only for the people during their sojourn in the Old Testament, while Christ gave Himself as our food (and drink).

Here lies the danger..
When you reference John 17:6-12, do you understand it?
Again let me repeat your 'believe' and as a result, the 'interpretation'.
Your believe is YOU CAN LOSE YOUR FAITH, HENCE YOUR SALVATION
Your interpretation is from this is.. CHRISTIANS FALL OUT OF GRACE, AND HENCE NOT SAVED
I do not argue that yes, all the Bible verses are in reference of TRULY SAVED CHRISTIANS.. nothing suggest otherwise..

The Message from the verse

John 17:11,12,"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
You were chosen, God's choice,"...thou hast given me.."
Fulfilling the prophecy ,"...none of them is lost, but the son of perdition"
Wait...was there a verse that mention losing salvation somewhere there? Let me know if you see it.. do share

John 17:20,"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"
Praying for NEW believers,".....which shall believe on me through their word"

Please explain from the verses you shared, which part of it contradicts John 10:28-29?
That you will LOSE YOUR SALVATION???

True Believers.. YES!! JAMES SAID SO!! I clearly state my point when i explained JAMES.

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 1 2024, 05:54 PM

For the parable of the seed..
Consider this.
Matthew 13: 13,"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."
Matthew 13: 19,"When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side"

The Parable of the seed tells of differentiate seeds that are ROOTED in the WORD OF GOD.. vs those who only HEAR the word of God
And this was also referenced in Mark
Mark 4:5-7,"And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit."

The Bible is very consistent with roots and faith.

Yes i agree to that..
But I dont see where you can stop eating.. especially when we know
John 4:14,"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

Its very similar analogies.. where food, water, is everlasting with no condition..
When Jesus said this, He did say drink my water continuously or any sort that would suggest you stop drinking, or lose your salvation.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

The main point here is you misinterpreting the Bible verse at JOHN.10:28-29.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 1 2024, 06:08 PM