Well I do agree with that

You are damned when you no longer have faith

.
The Protestant Lutherans of Martin Luther's era kept the Roman Catholic tradition of transubstantiation in the Mass or Holy Communion, besides infant baptism, etc.

Remember, Martin Luther was a Roman Catholic monk-professor.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 04:55 PM

Let's reply your confusion part by part..
Matthew 10:16
Who were "you" referred to..

Did you read my reply?
Sheep .. looking for sheep..
I did not the sheep did not include the apostles.. And what i certainly did not see and say is the exclusive rights of sheeps only for apostles..
And i showed you in Matthew 10:6.. dont ignore la please..

"By your warped logic, you are falsely saying that every sheep or Christian/believer have and will stumble and deny Christ"
By your weak understanding, you put words into verses..
V31,"Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."
1. This is a reference to the OT of how Jesus fulfills the prophecy.. again.. sheep is in reference to NOT just apostles as in Matthew 10:6 and 16.
and v31, This verse was in reference to ? ,"..this night.." Jesus is talking about that current moment =.=
and what is the offence ? (the capturing of Jesus)
and btw.. " have and will stumble and deny Christ", thats your confusion to take that to apply even till today after Jesus resurrected..

John 10:15,16
i overlooked that because of the many shocking misunderstandings you have of the Bible, including this.
and i stand corrected that's John instead of Matthew.
John 10:7,"Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep."
John 10:9, "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."
Mind you this is the SAME DOOR... and the BIBLE clearly telling you... "......by me if any man..."
Hello.. ANY MAN.. NOT APOSTLES!!

and continuing on to your John argument
the above John 10:7,9, already said clearly "any man"

'Other sheep' - is your own words its for Gentiles? other Christians? or there's a bible verse that refers as such?
See the danger?? ITS YOUR OWN WORDS when the Bible in previous few verses, CLEARLY talks about ANY MAN

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 2 2024, 05:30 PM

MATTHEW.10: (NKJV) = The Twelve Apostles

Sending Out The Twelve

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
.
Fyi, you are falsely teaching that the sheep scourged in the synagogues and brought before governors and kings as in MATTHEW.10:16-20, were not only the apostles but included other sheep or Christians/believers like today's Gentile Christians. Including you and me too.?

= you are quoting MATTHEW.10:16-20 out-of-context as not referring to the Twelve apostles only but to also include other sheep or Christians/believers, like today's Gentile Christians, including you and me.
.

.
JOHN.10: = 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep . 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
.

Why you ignore my above Bible quote about "other sheep" which refers to later Gentile Christians, ie not referring to Christ's apostles who were Jewish Christians.?
.

Chronology of those who came to faith in Christ:

The apostles (= sheep) ---> early Jewish Christians (= lost sheep but later found) ---> Gentile Christians (= other sheep, eg converted by apostle Paul)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
= all the above sheep, ie the apostles, early Jewish Christians and later Gentile Christians, shall be saved from hell by faith in Christ, as per JOHN.10:7-9.
....... OTOH, JOHN.10:28-29's "sheep" was referring to the apostles whom the Father has given to Jesus Christ, which JOHN.17:11-12 says He kept and lost none of them except the "son of perdition", ie Judas Iscariot.

Please show the Bible verses that "other sheep" is not referring to Gentile Christians, eg those converted by Paul and falsely being Judaized by James - GALATIANS.2:9-14.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 06:40 PM

our fren got confused . dietary laws & mosaic laws, yes, maybe do away. BUT the 10 commandments

"you are falsely teaching that the sheep scourged in the synagogues and brought before governors and kings"
You like to add nonsense at any opportunity..
"You..as SHEEP.." Illustration of APOSTLES AS SHEEP..
"..Therefore..".. Subsequently what you (Apostles) need to do...
So what are you yapping those added words which i didnt say?

I've said it enough of times with supporting bible verses.
SHEEPS = Apostles OR Saved Christians
not SHEEPS = ONLY Apostles.. no where is it said..
But i showed you evidence from the BIBLE already.. why you ignore?
John 10:9

Stop ignoring those verses that you dont agree on, and then move on to distract it with another. please..


"other sheep" is not referring to Gentile Christians
Hello , you very funny a..
1. I proved to you John 10:9, refers to ALL other sheeps including everyone else..
2. I proved how wrong your 'chronology' is and how mixed up you randomly match it in past replies, including son or perdition and JUDAS.. we had a LONG BIble verse to those.. please bother to read back and understand.. Dont ignore the BIBLE
3. You learn that you need to prove that other sheeps refer to ONLY to gentiles, now you ask me to proof a verse that talks about non gentiles but not sheep?
you throw another verse again ..
4. And quote Galations 2:9-14, nothing wrong with it.. Yes its for gentiles.. BUT halo.. what has it got to "Other Sheep"?
Where in your Bible you find "other sheep' in Galations 2:9-14??
You pull your own dots make your own assumptions and conclusion?
My goodness... dont interpret the Bible like that without any basis.. thats how false doctrine starts!!

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 2 2024, 06:57 PM

Of course, "sheep" was how Jesus Christ described some people of faith, eg sheep = the Twelve apostles as in MATTHEW.10:16-20 and 26:31; ... "lost sheep" of the house of Israel = early Jewish Christians who later got found by the apostles; .... and "other sheep" = Gentile Christians in JOHN.10:16, eg those early Gentile Christians converted by apostle Paul.
....... When Jesus Christ mentioned "sheep", it did not always = all of the above or all Christians/believers. We need to divide the truth and read the Bible verses in-context, not out-of-context, like you sometimes do.
.
.
JOHN.10:16 = 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

If the "other sheep" at JOHN.10:16 was not referring to Gentile Christians, then which other group of people or other sheep fold was it referring to.?
.
.
ROMANS.11:16-24 mentioned how the Gentile Christians = wild olive tree branches, were grafted onto the holy olive tree = apostles and Jewish Christians, ... after some branches of the holy olive tree were broken off = Jews who rejected Christ.

The wild olive tree branches = "other sheep" brought into the flock = Gentile Christians, eg those converted by apostle Paul.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 08:00 PM

.
Fyi, ACTS.15:28-29 implied that Jewish Christians were to continue to keep Moses Law because it was not a burden to them; ....
and new Gentile Christian adults were only required to keep the non-burdensome parts of Moses Law, esp the moral laws like the 10 Commandments at EXODUS.20, LEVITICUS.19:26 & 10:9, etc = begin their newborn-again lives by keeping the 4 simple laws of Moses = abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. , eg no need to be circumcised, eat only kosher foods, etc, ... in order to gradually grow into a spiritual adult and to do well on earth - bearing in mind that they were saved from hell solely by faith in Christ, not by doing the above good works of the Law.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 2 2024, 07:58 PM

At this point, You're being repetitive, ignorant and babbling.. let me show you..
Unfounded Bible context
You have nothing to say on "Sheep" in John 10:9.. but bring back the same thing on Matthew 10:16-20,26-31.
And then put a claim it is HOUSE OF ISRAEL.. which is NOT IN THE BIBLE....Unless you can prove it from the Bible, else you're just babbling.

Delusional "SHEEP" definition
and you put a statement saying i take it out of context??
"When Jesus Christ mentioned "sheep", it did not always = all of the above or all Christians/believers."
I have few verses to prove its for ALL CHRISTIANS and you cant even show me one that says its only for jews or gentiles..
so who's taking what out of context?

And when you ran out of self-justifications
John 10:16, i told you other sheeps is the sheeps in the field , as how Jesus always see the people.
Such as Matthew 9:36,"But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."
So your "other sheeps" are referring in matthew as?? "...MULTITUDES"
my goodness..

please dont simply take verses and match it up to your liking
And you bring up Romans.. when none in your reference even talks about sheep..
And you can still define SHEEP from that??
Do you hear yourself?

This post has been edited by zanness: Aug 3 2024, 12:34 PM

errr....right. tat means you're agreeing wif me

neither do i eat food offered to idols, nor eat pork blood cubes in my porridge.

What if I'm not? Are you ready to get counter banned for false accusation of others who brings up valid arguments?

I'm reporting you too for every report you make against me.

Let's see how it goes.

Chances are your dupe account will not be long before it gets exposed.

Keep all those laws and yet belum born again ke ? Kesian betul. Nevermind try harder ya. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

.
Fyi, .......

MATTHEW.10:6-7 (NKJV) = 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

MATTHEW.15: = A Gentile Shows Her Faith

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”
.
.
.

.
Who were the "multitudes" mentioned by Jesus Christ "as sheep having no shepherd'.?
....... Weren't they His fellow Jews whom He had referred to as the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" at MATTHEW.10:6 & 15:24 above.? Were the multitudes Gentiles or the "other sheep" not of this fold referred by Jesus at JOHN.10:16.?
.
.


.
At ROMANS.11:16-24, Paul's holy olive tree branches (= the apostles and Jewish Christians); ... grafted wild olive tree branches (= later Gentile Christians); .... some holy olive tree branches broken off (= the Jews who rejected Christ/Messiah); ...
.... are analogous to ....
Jesus Christ's sheep (= the Twelve apostles and early Jewish Christians); ... other sheep not of this fold (= later Gentile Christians, eg converted by apostle Paul); .... lost sheep of the house of Israel (= the Jews who rejected Christ/Messiah), at MATTHEW.10, JOHN.10 & 17, respectively.
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 3 2024, 03:49 PM

.
Hence ,Gentile Christians like LYN member 'happy4ever' the Pentecostal Christian from DUMC who ignorantly committed sexual immorality, eg by following false or deceptive teachings, has been bedridden since before MCO.
....... He will still be saved from hell if he keeps the faith in Christ until death - 1CORINTHIANS.5:1-5.

Anyone, including ignorant Gentile Christians, who dabble in the occult, eg by consulting bomohs/mediums, fortune-tellers, psychics, tarot-card readers, ouija-boards, horoscope, etc, will be demon-oppressed or even demon-possessed.
....... Nearly all Jews and Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews are aware of the Moses laws forbidding dabbling in the occult, eg LEV.19:26 and DEUT.18:9-14.
.

Damn bad lar u !

Ppl already bedridden, yet u stil wanna pronounce it's a deserving judgment frm god.

Religion has so thoroughly brain-washed your stupid brain, tat you can no longer display empathy for ur fellow human being.

If thr's indeed a heaven, I do not wish to live thr with the likes of u. Need to be stuck thr forever some more

House of Israel - Sheep
1) you were highlighting another segment. And you are right it is mentioned in Matthew 10:6.
2) Your delusion remains the same.
There's no issue in sending disciples to first the Jews , then the gentiles as the parable Jesus shared.
The delusion is you setting your own precedence with no substantial evidence. Here sheep is only Jews, other part sheep is only apostles, and it’s all just because you feel so or heard so or I don’t know.. what reason for the inconsistency.
As far as the Bible shows (which for unknown reasons you still ignore the Bible verses that said so), sheep are saved people may it be Jews, apostles , whatever not..

Multitudes - Jesus
You are either saying Bible is inaccurate or it’s just you being delusional
Which part of the Bible says it’s only Jews here????
And at Matthew 10:6, Read! Jesus instruct them to go to.. and by going then a separation of instructions!
Why the Jews first? Go read Romans 15:8
you assumed everyone is Jews before Jesus spoke to the disciples ????
So yes, again, your own understanding


Romans 11Your own ‘Bible’ or Understanding
Olive tree = Sheep
Go find a Bible verse that substantiates this.
Else it’s again, your imagination and false opinions

Please, in your replies, before you do, I would appreciate if you can substantiate your “claims” using the Bible.
Else my replies will be the same - your opinion! Not the Bible

My advice to you is go read up on how to interpret the Bible, and if you’re afraid of different doctrines, then talk and ask your pastor..

As a Baptist, there Bible is the fundamental truth of all
And anything you say or claim should be able to be ACCURATELY backed by the Bible
Accurately means it must have the meaning defined or shown in the Bible. The Bible don’t work based on imagined connections (which is your favourite approach) and will never do so..

Ephesians 1:4-5
4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Your salvation, has been predestined.
Not to say you continue to live in sin
Not to say you don’t need to believe to be saved

What
1. we were chosen “…we should be holy…”
2. We were chosen “…should be….without blame”

How
1. “..the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself”

Why
1. “….the good pleasure of his will,”

There is nothing a person can do to earn his salvation, and similarly nothing a person can do.. to lose it… we believe in one side of the statement, we have to also believe the other side…
Nothing means… NOTHING

.
Fyi, I'm just relating to you what the Word of God/Jesus or Bible says about ignorant Gentile Christians who committed the willful sin of sexual immorality. .......

1CORINTHIANS.6 & 3 = 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. ... &
....

3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. ...
.

This post has been edited by lurkingaround: Aug 4 2024, 12:58 PM

.
Read and understand, .......

MATTHEW.9: (NKJV) = 35 Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. 36 But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them, because they were weary and scattered, like sheep having no shepherd.

"synagogues" = the multitudes were Jews or the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", not Gentiles.
.
.
Also fyi, in Jesus's time in 1st century AD in Judea, Jews did not mix or live with Gentiles. So the above "multitudes" were Jews, not Gentiles or the "other sheep not of this fold" , .......

ACTS.10: = Peter's Vision

Summoned To Caesarea

Peter Meets Cornelius

... . 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29 Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?” ....

The Holy Spirit Falls On The Gentiles
.