QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 31 2021, 10:16 AM)
I dont have the expanse of time to write ad infinitum. Ive pointed out to you that the Euros could impose sanctions at whim. So the argument that one should buy from a non-US source because the US can impose sanctions does not stand. Secondly, the US imposes sanctions on the Indo due to human rights abuses for which the Euros are even more circumspect over. Are the indos invested in human rights abuses? Hmmm.Thirdly, there is an over-riding need to manage costs, training and develop expertise and jointness - this being more important than the latter 2. Why could you not understand the folly of having a zoo of an air force?
"human rights abuses"? "human rights abuses"?! Mate, are you being serious right now?!
If the US imposes sanctions on countries for "human rights abuses", it would have sanctioned Israel over Palestine and Saudi Arabia & the UAE over Yemen a long time ago!
No country in the world gets sanctioned by the US over their "human rights abuses". No country! It is a meme and a tool!
If the last 70 years of American foreign policy should have taught people anything is that countries can commit any amount of "human rights abuses" and infractions, no matter how severe, so long as it moved in lockstep with the US. So long as you make the White House and Congress very happy, they would sweep any "human rights abuses" concerns under the rug, but if you ever refuse to dance like a puppet on a string and speak words like a doll with ventriloquist's hand up your arse, then by God, they will sanction you! They will find your "human rights abuses", they will find even the tiniest of infractions and magnify them a thousand times over and failing that, they will make them!
QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 31 2021, 10:16 AM)
...Ive pointed out to you that the Euros could impose sanctions at whim. So the argument that one should buy from a non-US source because the US can impose sanctions does not stand...
Yes! Yes, I've stated multiple times that they can they can and they have! And that is exactly the point of having multiplicity of sources!
How can I explain this in a way you will understand?
I doubt anything I say wouldn't just fly over your head again, but for the sake of others reading this, I'll try.
If - for example - a country's air force is made up of 1/3 American fighters, 1/3 Euro fighters and 1/3 Russian fighters, an American embargo will ground only 1/3 of this country's Air Force, as opposed to its entirety in the even that you depend 100% on American imports. If the EU imposes sanctions, the same thing, you can still keep 2/3 of your fighter fleet flying. The same goes for Russian sanctions.
Is this ideal? Heck no!
Of course, it's not ideal!
But we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world where not all countries are able to manufacture their own equipment and where some who do, leverage it to force others to do their bidding.
This may be fine for small countries. For the statelets of the world, it may even be ideal to take shelter under the armpit of a great power. A small country's interests are not many compared to a larger country, and it is far less capable of living on its own resources anyway. So, yes, for these countries, being under the hegemonic sway of a superpower is completely acceptable. You get to access its trade block, its market and resources. You even get to secure your continued existence under its world order. What's not to like?
But this is not the case for large national-states!
The Russias, the Chinas, the Indias and the Indonesias of the world will never accept such subordination.
No country that is the 4th most populous on the planet, that is the world's largest archipelagic state, that boasts 1.9 million sq km of land and 5 million sq km of water, that straddles two continents and two oceans, that sits atop some of the busiest maritime traffic in the world, will accept subordination to another.
Neither the political establishment, nor the armed forces, nor the people of such a country will accept playing second fiddle - certainly not forever. Their ambitions will always include sitting at the table of the great powers as an equal.
If Singapore is a country of such size, it too wouldn't so readily jump at the chance of being a satellite of another. It too would have equally great ambitions, if not greater, because these are simply the natural imperatives imposed by its conditions and geography.
Trying to suggest that countries of such asymmetry as Singapore and Indonesia should follow the same strategy and approach to national defense and geopolitical relations is completely tone-deaf. It completely ignores their geopolitical realities. Their conditions, their concerns and what best fulfills their national interests are completely alien to one another.
And speaking of national interests, let me address your continued insistence on bringing up the EU and its embargoes.
Yes, the EU may impose such a thing and they had done such a thing. But the EU is in any case not a monolith and are hardly united.
Look at how divided they are over the question of gas from Russia! Look at how divided they are over the 2003 invasion of Iraq! Ultimately, the EU is made up of many countries, each with their own national interests which are not always in lock step with one another. Sometimes, they diverge and even clash. This division is something Indonesia understands it can use. It is what many other countries, including China, have used to their own benefit, blunting any coherent EU response to concerns over them.
And in as much as the EU is dominated by its Western European member states, it is far closer to ASEAN - a disunited grouping - than it is to the federated United States of America. And these Western European member states are also, in any case, nation states with their own national interests. Brexit have also shown that they can be counted on to not always move in lockstep and present a united front. So they make far better defense partners for a country like Indonesia than the likes of the US or China.
And with that, I am done. I will not be writing anything more on the issues I've covered over the last several posts in this thread. Those posts will stand on their own. Anyone who still refuses to understand them at this point is either being disingenuous or have simply refused to understand.
Apr 3 2021, 03:40 PM, updated 4y ago
Quote
0.3109sec
0.30
6 queries
GZIP Disabled