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> Honda City RS e: HEV, What a mouthful but who is getting it?

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McFD2R
post Mar 18 2021, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 18 2021, 02:56 PM)
Mostly been brainwaish by Honda ads. Lol. Someone from marketing department should be fire for coming out with that idea.
*
If Malaysians are easily suckered by ads, it ain't no fault of the advert laugh.gif In fact, Marketing Dept considers it a success.
DM52
post Mar 18 2021, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(unitron @ Mar 18 2021, 06:00 PM)
0-100 time and overtaking while cruising is not the same thing.
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Care to elaborate more?.

My understanding is, if car can achieve good 0 to 100kmh, then the car will be even faster going from 100kmh to 200kmh, since no more weight to carry around from standstill.

Unless city rs is fucking heavy like 300 or 400kg more than crz, then I dont think it will outperform crz during overtake on cruising speed.
DM52
post Mar 18 2021, 08:33 PM

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QUOTE(McFD2R @ Mar 18 2021, 06:45 PM)
If Malaysians are easily suckered by ads, it ain't no fault of the advert  laugh.gif In fact, Marketing Dept considers it a success.
*
Then its like very unethical lor. Create misleading ads. Facts should be correct lor. But u knowla, during this hard time, desperate time owh. Thats why maybe come out with that idea.
constant_weight
post Mar 18 2021, 10:25 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 18 2021, 08:29 PM)
Care to elaborate more?.

My understanding is, if car can achieve good 0 to 100kmh, then the car will be even faster going from 100kmh to 200kmh, since no more weight to carry around from standstill.

Unless city rs is fucking heavy like 300 or 400kg more than crz, then I dont think it will outperform crz during overtake on cruising speed.
*
Of course car with good power that can do good 0-100km/h, the 100-200km/h won't be too bad.

But there are many optimizations (hacks) can be done to get a fraction of seconds faster for 0-100km/h. 100-200km/h is more on the raw horsepower.

For super slow car like City or other A/B segments urban utility cars, making 11-12s faster to let's say 10s. Well, 1s is a colossal improvement, but nevertheless still slow. This is not what they designed for and NOT a criteria to determine if one is good/bad car.

For 3-5s 0-100km/h car, a 0.1s is a big deal. Many can be done to get 0.1 - 0.2 without increasing the power.

The key is traction.
1) Everyone know launch control, it is to limit the torque to just a fraction below breaking the traction of the tires.
2) Tesla invented this. The launch control will hold the brake, and then reverse the car ever slightly and hold it there. This create tension on the brake rotor and brake pad. Metal while looks solid, is actually quite flexible. The tension will slingshot all 4 wheels, also spring the electric motor rotor forward on launch, saving fractions of a second. This hack can only be done on EV
3) Moveable spoilers. Retract or reduce the wing angles at low speed when don't need the downforce to reduce drag
4) Optimize Gear box shift timing for launch control
5) AWD can get more traction at launch, put engine on top of driving wheel also improve traction. FF, MR, RR. FR is actually at disadvantage here, but is fun to drive.
6) Volvo T8 PHEV, beside the 87HP electric motor (ERAD) at rear wheel, there is another 43HP starter generator between engine and torque converter. This 43HP will fill in the torque when shifting in acceleration, so no gap in power delivery. This is also the reason the gear shift is so damn smooth in the T8, also make it the first hybrid that can do regenerative braking on all 4 wheels.
7) etc etc... others can fill in more examples

Accelerate from cruising is different experience, as most likely you just chilling. Then sudden change of pace, will see how fast the car decided to kick down the gear, what's the initial delay, after that is the raw horsepower game. So 0-100km/h, 5-100km/h, 40-160km/h can favor different car of similar horsepower. Advantage of AWD gone when starting at higher speed.

Weight still affecting the acceleration at any speed. As long as there is change of speed, there is change of inertial. Only that the effect is less vs aerodynamic drag at higher speed.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Mar 18 2021, 10:28 PM
DM52
post Mar 19 2021, 07:46 AM

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QUOTE(constant_weight @ Mar 18 2021, 10:25 PM)
Of course car with good power that can do good 0-100km/h, the 100-200km/h won't be too bad.

But there are many optimizations (hacks) can be done to get a fraction of seconds faster for 0-100km/h. 100-200km/h is more on the raw horsepower.

For super slow car like City or other A/B segments urban utility cars, making 11-12s faster to let's say 10s. Well, 1s is a colossal improvement, but nevertheless still slow. This is not what they designed for and NOT a criteria to determine if one is good/bad car.

For 3-5s 0-100km/h car, a 0.1s is a big deal. Many can be done to get 0.1 - 0.2 without increasing the power.

The key is traction.
1) Everyone know launch control, it is to limit the torque to just a fraction below breaking the traction of the tires.
2) Tesla invented this. The launch control will hold the brake, and then reverse the car ever slightly and hold it there. This create tension on the brake rotor and brake pad. Metal while looks solid, is actually quite flexible. The tension will slingshot all 4 wheels, also spring the electric motor rotor forward on launch, saving fractions of a second. This hack can only be done on EV
3) Moveable spoilers. Retract or reduce the wing angles at low speed when don't need the downforce to reduce drag
4) Optimize Gear box shift timing for launch control
5) AWD can get more traction at launch, put engine on top of driving wheel also improve traction. FF, MR, RR. FR is actually at disadvantage here, but is fun to drive.
6) Volvo T8 PHEV, beside the 87HP electric motor (ERAD) at rear wheel, there is another 43HP starter generator between engine and torque converter. This 43HP will fill in the torque when shifting in acceleration, so no gap in power delivery. This is also the reason the gear shift is so damn smooth in the T8, also make it the first hybrid that can do regenerative braking on all 4 wheels.
7) etc etc... others can fill in more examples

Accelerate from cruising is different experience, as most likely you just chilling. Then sudden change of pace, will see how fast the car decided to kick down the gear, what's the initial delay, after that is the raw horsepower game. So 0-100km/h, 5-100km/h, 40-160km/h can favor different car of similar horsepower. Advantage of AWD gone when starting at higher speed.

Weight still affecting the acceleration at any speed. As long as there is change of speed, there is change of inertial. Only that the effect is less vs aerodynamic drag at higher speed.
*
Based on ur replies, seems like my understanding is correct. If century sprint is good, then speeding from 100kmh to 200kmh won't be too bad.

This post has been edited by DM52: Mar 19 2021, 07:49 AM
McFD2R
post Mar 19 2021, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 18 2021, 08:33 PM)
Then its like very unethical lor. Create misleading ads. Facts should be correct lor. But u knowla, during this hard time, desperate time owh. Thats why maybe come out with that idea.
*
Which facts are people looking for? That City overtook Camry, when the Camry wasn't even accelerating and people consider it a fact?

That's like creating an ad that our Malaysian God Car Myvi overtook a Ferrari when the prancing horse was just cruising, then people expect it to be faster that the Ferrari.

Performance? Extra torque is always nice, helps with the overtaking, helps with hill climb and so forth. But people should stop equating it as being performance oriented. It is a Honda City, and should be treated as it should be, efficient and economical.
unitron
post Mar 19 2021, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 18 2021, 08:29 PM)
Care to elaborate more?.

My understanding is, if car can achieve good 0 to 100kmh, then the car will be even faster going from 100kmh to 200kmh, since no more weight to carry around from standstill.

Unless city rs is fucking heavy like 300 or 400kg more than crz, then I dont think it will outperform crz during overtake on cruising speed.
*
Must also always consider mass, wind resistance, traction, engine power/torque curve and gear ratios.
I've H.City 1.5 (CVT), Civic 2.0 (A), Accord 2.4 (A), P.X70 1.8T (A) and VW Golf 2.0T (DCT)

Not counting the Golf, but the other 4 have pretty similar real world 0-100 km/h times in the 9-10+ sec range
My Civic has better 100-200km/h acceleration than the City (of course), Accord and X70.
DM52
post Mar 19 2021, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(McFD2R @ Mar 19 2021, 12:22 PM)
Which facts are people looking for? That City overtook Camry, when the Camry wasn't even accelerating and people consider it a fact?

That's like creating an ad that our Malaysian God Car Myvi overtook a Ferrari when the prancing horse was just cruising, then people expect it to be faster that the Ferrari.

Performance? Extra torque is always nice, helps with the overtaking, helps with hill climb and so forth. But people should stop equating it as being performance oriented. It is a Honda City, and should be treated as it should be, efficient and economical.
*
See based on pic, how Honda try to instill City is superior over Camry..This follow by Ads video.I think I stop here. The moment u take in Ferrari and Myvi as a comparison, show u dont understand what we talk about.


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kidmad
post Mar 19 2021, 02:20 PM

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better than my 1.5 Jazz Hybrid wei... i need to go test drive and if can really feel the supreme acceleration i'll change.

Anyone who wants a 2019 Jazz Hybrid with super low mileage let me know. haha
kidmad
post Mar 19 2021, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(Mr Mercedes @ Mar 12 2021, 03:44 PM)
While that torque figure looks impressive on paper, it takes 9.9 seconds to go from 0-100km/h.
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9.9 very slow wor.. it doesn't represent 250nm torque cars. Jazz Hybrid 1.15t 173nm doing around 8.7secs ady.. i was expecting it to be around 6-7 secs region for 253 on that 1.1t body.
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kidmad
post Mar 19 2021, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 18 2021, 08:29 PM)
Care to elaborate more?.

My understanding is, if car can achieve good 0 to 100kmh, then the car will be even faster going from 100kmh to 200kmh, since no more weight to carry around from standstill.

Unless city rs is fucking heavy like 300 or 400kg more than crz, then I dont think it will outperform crz during overtake on cruising speed.
*
no not right. having h igh torque doesn't mean it will perform well on higher RPM. it still bound to the engines HP at the end of the day. eg:

my Jazz hybrid is using 1.5 it's engine alone is only doing 108hp/134nm while the standard jazz has more power on it's 1.5 engine with 70kg lesser in kerb weight as well. Sure 0-100km/h the jazz hybrid would easily overtake but upon hitting 140km/h i can no longer accelerate faster than a standard honda jazz/city.
DS51
post Mar 19 2021, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Mar 19 2021, 02:23 PM)
9.9 very slow wor.. it doesn't represent 250nm torque cars. Jazz Hybrid 1.15t 173nm doing around 8.7secs ady.. i was expecting it to be around 6-7 secs region for 253 on that 1.1t body.
*
In facebook group, last gen city sport hybrid get 9 second flat already. And ya, I had hear jazz sport hybrid around ur stated figure.

But here, like people said if B segment close to 10 second consider good for City RS. It ain a fast car, just normal b segment.

But city gm6 hybrid already can record 9 second with puny torque. What the hell make way more torque, but slower. then market it as a fast car. lol.

I was expecting more too.

kidmad
post Mar 19 2021, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(DS51 @ Mar 19 2021, 02:38 PM)
In facebook group, last gen city sport hybrid get 9 second flat already. And ya, I had hear jazz sport hybrid around ur stated figure.

But here, like people said if B segment close to 10 second consider good for City RS. It ain a fast car, just normal b segment.

But city gm6 hybrid already can record 9 second with puny torque. What the hell make way more torque, but slower. then market it as a fast car. lol.

I was expecting more too.
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how come ah... i looking into the spec sheet.. it's not really that heavy also.. it has way more torque than the generation of hybrid i'm driving. hurmmm confused.gif

253nm on paper is like hyundai ioniq selling around rm99k.. i didn't get that cause really tempted with honda's i-dct as well. super smooth acceleration and fuel consumption WAS SUPERB..

hahaha anyway i have a company petrol card so fuel consumption isn't really a concern LOL. was just thinking of being environmental friendly when i bought the car.
McFD2R
post Mar 19 2021, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 19 2021, 02:17 PM)
See based on pic, how Honda try to instill City is superior over Camry..This follow by Ads video.I think I stop here. The moment u take in Ferrari and Myvi as a comparison, show u dont understand what we talk about.
*
If people are too dumb to know the difference, it's their own fault. Adverts are not to be taken literally. Ads that shows you using a certain brand perfume can attract girls, then you use but yielded no similar effect, you going to blame the ad also? whistling.gif
DM52
post Mar 19 2021, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(McFD2R @ Mar 19 2021, 03:48 PM)
If people are too dumb to know the difference, it's their own fault. Adverts are not to be taken literally. Ads that shows you using a certain brand perfume can attract girls, then you use but yielded no similar effect, you going to blame the ad also?  whistling.gif
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From car discussion suddenly divert into girls bla bla bla. Some people cannot differentiate between kopitiam section and F&F. Maybe sit too long there.

#dontfeedthetroll

This post has been edited by DM52: Mar 19 2021, 04:01 PM
kidmad
post Mar 20 2021, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(Kilohertz @ Mar 17 2021, 04:30 PM)
at this price point, it is no brainer to get civic..
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don't like the civic and i like it the smaller the better. different ppl did taste dude.

This post has been edited by kidmad: Mar 20 2021, 12:41 AM
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 20 2021, 03:03 AM

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I think much arguments against this car has also not been doing due justice on what good stuff you get with the package


https://www.nst.com.my/cbt/2021/03/672961/h...v-priced-rm106k

perhaps we should just highlight it here

QUOTE
The highlight of the top end range of the 5th Generation City is that its 2-motor hybrid system powered by a 1.5L DOHC i-VTEC intelligent Multi-Mode Drive (i-MMD) system delivers 109PS and a high torque of 253Nm.

It is said to deliver acceleration that is equivalent to a D-segment Naturally Aspirated engine torque when combined with its Electric Continuous Variable Transmission (e-CVT).


The e:HEV system will switch automatically between the three driving modes which are EV Drive, Hybrid Drive and Engine Drive depending on which is most efficient at the time. This variant also comes with Deceleration Selector Paddles that enable the driver to engage on the paddles for power regeneration and to decelerate the vehicle without stepping on the brake pedal.

The car was also awarded the "ASEAN NCAP Excellent Award category - Consistent 5 Star" (since the 3rd and 4th Gen City) at ASEAN NCAP Grand Prix Awards 2020.

The City RS e:HEV variant will be the first model of Honda's line-up to be equipped with Honda CONNECT technology. Utilising smart Telematics Technology the integrated communications system is available 24-hours and functions to ensure safety, security and convenience to Honda car owners.


Enhanced Honda SENSING is also present as a first for the B-segment.
Utilising a front wide view camera to better recognise road boundaries during day and night driving conditions, the suite includes Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS), Forward Collision Warning (FCW), Lane Keep Assist System (LKAS), Road Departure Mitigation (RDM), Lane Departure Warning (LDW), and Auto High Beam (AHB).

Cars, Bikes and Trucks' favourite safety feature Honda LaneWatch is also present. The camera based advanced safety technology on the left side mirror helps monitor blind spots through an infotainment system.

Remote Engine Start is also a first in segment technology
which allows the driver to start their car while the doors are locked and to activate the air-conditioning in the cabin with a simple push of a button on the keyless remote. This variant also comes with Electric Parking Brake (EPB) that can be activated with just a lift of a button.

Other standard safety features to the City RS e:HEV variant are its six airbags, Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA), Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA), Emergency Stop Signal (ESS), Hill Start Assist (HSA), Rear Seat ISOFIX I-SIZE Type and new Rear Seatbelt Reminder, reverse sensors with multi-angle reverse camera, and Auto Brake Hold (ABH) which enables the vehicle's stationary position to be held with only a push of a button.

Three colours, namely Passion Red Pearl, Modern Steel Metallic and Platinum White Pearl, are available for choice.

The exterior carries a new Gloss Black front grille, trunk spoiler, door mirrors (to give a sporty two-toned impression of the body colour); exclusive lower front grille, new rear bumper with diffuser, new LED headlights with LED Daytime Running Lights (DRL), new LED fog lights with garnish, new LED taillights, as well as dual-tone16-inch alloy wheels.

The cabin features a 7-inch Interactive Thin Film Transistor (TFT) Meter, an 8-inch Display Audio with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Connectivity, sport pedal pads, and is fitted with Ultrasuede Seats and Red Stitching at interior areas


And the distinctive fuel efficiency that beats almost every body

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Mar 20 2021, 04:30 AM
mffa
post Mar 21 2021, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(McFD2R @ Mar 19 2021, 12:22 PM)
Which facts are people looking for? That City overtook Camry, when the Camry wasn't even accelerating and people consider it a fact?

That's like creating an ad that our Malaysian God Car Myvi overtook a Ferrari when the prancing horse was just cruising, then people expect it to be faster that the Ferrari.

Performance? Extra torque is always nice, helps with the overtaking, helps with hill climb and so forth. But people should stop equating it as being performance oriented. It is a Honda City, and should be treated as it should be, efficient and economical.
*
I dunno u had seen the video or not. But based on the comment like not.



Do ads like this, compare directly with competitors, until camry driver very frustated in the end, super misleading to the max. lol.

But this is expected from Honda. Top manager also make joke about rape,then what we can expect right. If head also stink, then tail also stink too.
mffa
post Mar 21 2021, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(unitron @ Mar 19 2021, 01:35 PM)
Must also always consider mass, wind resistance, traction, engine power/torque curve and gear ratios.
I've H.City 1.5 (CVT), Civic 2.0 (A), Accord 2.4 (A), P.X70 1.8T (A) and VW Golf 2.0T (DCT)

Not counting the Golf, but the other 4 have pretty similar real world 0-100 km/h times in the 9-10+ sec range
My Civic has better 100-200km/h acceleration than the City (of course), Accord and X70.
*
Big cars usually come with heavy kerb weight. So acceleration from standstill will take a hit. Lighter car can match the acceleration, but at certain speed, out of breath easily due to horsepower not enough


QUOTE(DM52 @ Mar 19 2021, 02:17 PM)
See based on pic, how Honda try to instill City is superior over Camry..This follow by Ads video.I think I stop here. The moment u take in Ferrari and Myvi as a comparison, show u dont understand what we talk about.
*
engineer make the car, marketing people made the ads. Marketing only think want to sell. Technical throw to the sea. This ads clearly show they dont understand how immd works.
mffa
post Mar 21 2021, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Mar 19 2021, 02:20 PM)
better than my 1.5 Jazz  Hybrid wei... i need to go test drive and if can really feel the supreme acceleration i'll change.

Anyone who wants a 2019 Jazz Hybrid with super low mileage let me know. haha
*
QUOTE(kidmad @ Mar 19 2021, 02:23 PM)
9.9 very slow wor.. it doesn't represent 250nm torque cars. Jazz Hybrid 1.15t 173nm doing around 8.7secs ady.. i was expecting it to be around 6-7 secs region for 253 on that 1.1t body.
*
QUOTE(DS51 @ Mar 19 2021, 02:38 PM)
In facebook group, last gen city sport hybrid get 9 second flat already. And ya, I had hear jazz sport hybrid around ur stated figure.

But here, like people said if B segment close to 10 second consider good for City RS. It ain a fast car, just normal b segment.

But city gm6 hybrid already can record 9 second with puny torque. What the hell make way more torque, but slower. then market it as a fast car. lol.

I was expecting more too.
*
This one different hybrid system.Last time Honda use IMA, then IDCD, and now IMMD.

idcd is like improvement from ima, while immd totally different. No more combine output. 253nm purely from electric power. Car can rely on ev power not like idcd and ima system which heavily still rely on ice during running.

And definitely this one will be slower than previous IDCD, but its fuel is way way more efficient.

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